"leave him or leave us out of it"

[00:00:00]Stop saying leave him or leave us out of it. Stop saying that. Stop saying that.

[00:00:04]Please stop coming on the internet, the worldwide web, sharing how a boyfriend, husband and fiance, whatever, who clearly [music] hates you. The internet tells you, and then you make a million videos defending him. [music] >> Leave him or leave us out of it is so valid to me.

[00:00:21]>> Leave him or leave us out [music] of it mentality is the same mentality that causes abuse victims to isolate themselves and not seek out help. Stop [music] showing me your loser husband.

[00:00:31]Stop showing me your loser husband. Stop showing me your loser husband, [music] boyfriend, fiance, partner, whomver.

[00:00:40]Welcome back to my channel. So, we have spoke about this subject before, but kind of in roundabout ways. I've made a video talking about um the men who hate their wives and I've also spoke about the cut article I love my husband who hates me which touches on this topic of women coming to the internet telling us about their shitty stupid incompetent partners husbands boyfriends whatever and then not leaving them. So the response to that has been the reaction of if you're not going to leave him then don't tell us about it.

[00:01:14]Leave him or leave us out of it. and this kind of uh comment that is being left over all of these women's pages and under any sort of Tik Tok or any sort of video where a woman is like, "Look what my husband's up to. Look what my boyfriend just did." The first few comments, you're going to find a leave him or leave us out of it comment. And the response now that now people are having a reaction to that reaction. So, everyone's reacting to the leave him or leave us out of it. Uh, so that's what we're going to talk about talk about today. A lot of people are saying that it basically forces victims into silence and it makes women scared to come forward to tell their stories or to, you know, ask for help or whatever if people are like, "No, I don't want to talk to you unless you're going to leave him."

[00:02:01]And other people are saying that it is actually a really necessary thing to do for like multiple reasons. Um, because it stops enabling people from being with someone who is clearly not very good for them. So, let's jump in and let's listen to some people's reactions who are on different sides of the fence here.

[00:02:20]Before we jump into anything, I just wanted to say that I started a yoga YouTube channel because for anyone who doesn't know, I'm a yoga teacher and that's what I've been doing for like 12 years or 13 years or something, I don't know. And uh so anyway, I started a yoga YouTube channel. I'll leave it here.

[00:02:35]I'll leave it linked below. I'm going to upload yoga videos. I have loads of videos already recorded and like scheduled to post. So, if you want to do yoga with me, it's a whole different vibe over there. It's a whole different Kate over there. She's chill. She's zen.

[00:02:50]So, if you want to go over there and do some yoga with me, okay? Um, and also follow me on Instagram. I'm trying to get better at posting on Instagram. And I hope hope I will see some of you guys over there as well. Anyhood, let's get into it and let's hear some people's reactions to the conversation around leave him or leave us out of it.

[00:03:12]>> Leave him or leave us out of it. I absolutely stand by leave me out of it.

[00:03:18]Leave me out of it. You got about times max to come to me about a issue with a man and it's a serious issue like this man is putting his hands on you type issues and you're not trying to leave. I'm not getting involved in that.

[00:03:31]I'm not getting involved in that. Right?

[00:03:33]Because by this point once he didn't put his hands on you and I tell you that you should leave and then you come back with but you don't then I don't understand. I don't understand you right because ain't nobody going to put their hands on me and I'm going to stay. So I cannot understand and you absolutely right and that's the reason why if we got to fall out over that that's just what's going to have to happen cuz what's not about to happen is I'm living my life peacefully and ain't nobody knocking my head in between the washer and dryer and then I have to keep hearing about you getting your head knocked in between the washer and dry and then when you're presented a way to fix it, you're telling me no. What do you want me to do at that point? There is nothing that I can do and that's why you need to leave me out of it. That's why you need to leave me out of it. And let's just say it ain't even that drastic. The man just cheating on you. Same thing. I'm not getting cheated on. I'm not constantly coming and telling you about how some man dog walking me. Pay me that same respect, right? I'm not the person for you to come and just keep throwing all this bad stuff that you got going on in your life that again, you don't have no intention on changing. You just want to come dump on me all of these issues. And I don't want all that negativity going on in my life. That's the reason why I don't put it in my own life. Right?

[00:04:27]That's the reason why I don't have no man cheating on me. That's the reason why I don't have no man put his hands on me. I want peace. And so you continuously keep coming and disrupting my peace by telling me about all this bad stuff that you are inviting into your life. I can't be part of that. And the last thing I'm going to say is anytime I'm cool with somebody, I'm friends with somebody, I genuinely care about them. There's no way that I can sit back and continuously watch somebody keep making poor decisions and be okay with it and and that's just not going to work. I will fall out with you behind wanting better for you. If I want better for you and you don't want better for yourself, I'm not going to sit on the sidelines and continuously watch a train crash. I'm going to have to dismiss myself and I wish you the best. But you could absolutely keep all of that coming to me about drama that you don't have no intention on fixing.

[00:05:02]>> So this talking point was actually very popular on TikTok. People saying, you know, exactly what she just said, which is if you have no intention of changing, if you have no intention of making your life better, if I'm giving you all this advice and I'm helping you find your way out of this situation and you're saying no, what else am I supposed to do? Like what else am I supposed to do? There is also a real danger like women have been killed by their friends partners when trying to help them leave or escape or talk to him or try and like get him to see the way or whatever. Like women have put themselves in danger trying to help their friends who were unable to leave an abusive or violent situation. I will say that I think for the most part when people are saying leave him or leave us out of it, I feel like that kind of most of the time is reserved for social media and it is reserved for people who are not necessarily getting beaten up or like cheated on or whatever. Do you know what I mean? It's not necessarily people who are in like serious abusive relationships or like mentally abusive dynamics or whatever where they're actually being like psychologically tortured by men. Like that's not what most of the time when I see leave him or leave us out of it, it is in reference to women talking about how useless their partners are, how incompetent they are, how lazy they are, how thoughtless and inconsiderate they are.

[00:06:42]These are all big problems, mind you.

[00:06:44]I'm not saying that like, you know, if those issues are present, it's also likely that there's probably maybe some other like emotional kind of issues going on. Emotional abuse perhaps, maybe. I don't know. But most of the time, the leave him or leave us out of it from what I can see is directed at women who are online. It is directed at women who are coming to the internet saying, you know, my partner forgot my birthday. Like there was a woman who was getting on a flight and her partner got her birthday wrong, so he went on the plane without her. Basically, there are so many examples of women coming to the internet time after time after time telling us about this stupid thing that their husband did or the unforgivable thing that their husband did or the the inconsiderate incompetence or just how how unable he is to just like fully see the woman as a full human or how unable he is to actually be a willing competent participant in the relationship. And in those situations when people are saying you don't have to be here, you are not shackled to this man. You are not tethered to him with chains. There is nothing actually keeping you tied to this man. Like you can leave, especially when you're not married, especially when you don't have kids, especially if you don't own property together, whatever.

[00:08:03]like all of those things um you can still leave in those situations, but all of those things are obviously like other factors that would keep people cemented together longer than if you are just single and a free agent. Um, but people are seeing the leave him or leave us out of it comment and like discussion or whatever and immediately applying it to like abuse situations and like serious serious abuse situations when in my opinion most of the time people are saying it with like useless, incompetent, inconsiderate situations.

[00:08:36]Do you know what I mean? There's a really big difference between someone who is There's a really big difference between someone whose husband is being like is weaponizing his incompetence and who is not helping around the house and who's forgetting birthdays and who is being inconsiderate and blah blah blah blah blah buying butter dishes for Christmas or whatever.

[00:08:58]There's a really big difference between that and someone who is like literally being beaten up or being psychologically abused or whatever. There's a really, really, really big difference. And those two things don't necessarily need to be considered the same like weight and seriousness. Do you know what I mean? Of course, it's really difficult to leave an abusive situation. On average, it takes like seven or eight times before a woman is actually able to leave an abusive situation. We know that. But I don't understand why people are immediately jumping when we're talking about leave him or leave us out of it.

[00:09:28]Immediately people are like abuse victims, abuse, abuse, abuse. And it's like, okay, that that is one thing, but most of the time we're not talking about that. We're talking about lazy, incompetent, inconsiderate. Like, you could do better than this. Is this is this really is this really the way that you want to be loved forever by a halfassed man who is doing the least amount possible?

[00:09:50]Like, really? The leave him or leave us out of it discourse has been absolutely controlling my entire feed this week with people giving their varying opinions on whether it's okay to say things like that. I've seen multiple videos from both sides of people talking about whether or not women should be posting this content on the internet.

[00:10:04]But I wanted to give my two cents on this because it really reminds me of the I hate my wife trope. You've probably encountered a man throughout your life, probably on the older side, married but very unhappily and is very content to just stay in his life and complain about how much he does not like his wife.

[00:10:18]While this isn't cool on the surface because it, you know, like hurts his wife, I find that it often creates a culture or a situation in which other men that are either in conversation with or around this man who is talking about how he doesn't like his wife. They will also chime in with their stories about, oh, my wife did this, or oh my god, I can't stand that. And that's what kind of makes me worried about people posting their videos of their husbands packing them dog food and then saying it's all a joke and laughing about it. It's one thing to be like, "My husband packed me dog food and this is bad." And we all agree that this is bad, but to say my husband packed me dog food and then to be defending that and saying that this is normal behavior is just is on another level. So I can accept a video in which a husband gives a butter dish to his wife for Christmas, but I cannot accept a video in which she says this is normal behavior. Don't worry about it. That's a really good point as well where a lot of the time the women who have these like husbands that are packing them dog food or these husbands that are giving them butter dishes for Christmas or these husbands that forget the kids' birthdays and don't know what the kids are allergic to and blah blah blah blah blah the so on and so forth. Those women who are in relationships with those men, they like to complain about their useless, shitty, unable in unable husband because the women around them probably are doing the same thing. And it's probably just normal for them to be like gh you know what the men are like. You know what the boys are like? And we've definitely spoken about that in some of my other episodes. Maybe I love my husband who hates me where we are raised in this culture obviously like under patriarchy and we are raised with the like brainwashing of TV and different films and and once you have your feminist awakening it kind of like opens your eyes to how early that um messaging starts to creep in when you think of like any normal American sitcom or cartoon even think like the Simpsons whatever it's so normalized for the husband to be lazy and competent inconsiderate in some cases like breaking the law. Think about breaking bad. And um we were all raised just thinking like, oh yeah, that's just normal. Like the the man, you know, the man is up to his shenanigans again. And the woman is always seen as like the [ __ ] [ __ ] Anyway, that's a completely different story. Sorry, my phone just went off. That's a completely different conversation. We've spoken about that before, but I just wanted to point out as well that a lot of us were raised like most people who are joining in this conversation of leave him or leave us out of it like we have been raised in the west and we have been raised with certain TV shows and certain music and certain like societal conditioning or whatever to kind of accept that not even to accept but to expect men to be kind of useless and to just expect them to just kind of be bumbling idiots and to find that somewhat endearing and charming almost as well instead of being like sir you're 40 you're literally 40 like [laughter] get it together. But anyway, a lot of the women who are sharing their like butterish husbands or whatever, we'll just use that as an example. like a lot of these Buddhist women who are sharing their husbands um are probably just like used to that and they're probably that's all that they expect from him and they've grown up thinking that's normal thinking it's cute even thinking it's funny thinking it's like oh it's a talking point it's like gossip fodder for the next time I see the girls can't wait to tell the girls how stupid he's been I can't wait to tell the girls how useless he is I can't wait to tell the girls how like what a big mistake he made and all this kind of stuff like there probably is some form of community, I guess, or like share camaraderie maybe, rather than community in these groups of women who have never really unpacked their conditioning or have never perhaps maybe never had their like feminist awakening or whatever. And like sometimes that happens early on, sometimes it happens later on, sometimes it doesn't happen at all. And like women can go through their whole life just expecting men to always be terrible, which is just really unfortunate. and expecting all men to behave like children or like babies. And that's like I'm so I'm sad for those women, but at the same time, there is enough information out there that if somebody like it like we've all been there, well, I don't know. I've been there. I've definitely been there before um where I definitely accepted and expected like really horrible treatment from men. And it wasn't until I left um that I actually was like, "Yeah, that will never happen again. That will absolutely never happen again." And anyway, yes. So, this creator here made the comment of it's the same thing when you see like the boomer dads who or the boomer husbands who were like my wife and all the men are like yeah get a load of these broads or whatever and it's like this camaraderie where like I hate my wife, I hate my husband. Oh, kind of like uh Kristen Bell and Dax Shepard. I also made a video about them as well, but um I hate that dynamic. I can't I hate that dynamic in relationships so much where it's like you guys just don't understand us. You guys just don't understand us. While they literally just like hate each other. They literally just don't like each other. They don't respect each other. They full-blown just hate each other. But they won't leave because nobody understands them. It's us against the world. But anyway, let's continue and let's watch some more um Tik Toks. Fact that my husband and I just argued about who will wake up with the kids tomorrow when it's literally my birthday and Mother's Day. Ladies and gentlemen, we found ourselves our next butter dish gal. He thinks it's cute and not psychotic. Look at some comments.

[00:15:47]Let's look at some comments. Wise woman asks, "What exactly do you want from us?" Of course, butter dish girl responds with, "It's free to keep scrolling." Idk girl, you get what you settle for. Clock it, babe. Says, "Leave him or leave the internet out of it."

[00:16:01]BDG very cleverly responds with, "Girl, keep scrolling." Again, Olive says, "You're literally fighting for your life in these comments." And BDG responds with literally where. [music] Just look up BDG. You just have to look one comment up and you'll see a great example. British girl, you need to take that anger, that rage, and you need to direct it at the right person, your ain't [ __ ] husband. Why would you share your good forno husband's [music] good fornoess on the internet if you were just going to be defensive about it?

[00:16:33]What did you expect butter dish girl to write?

[00:16:38]>> And this is what I mean. I think women like this when they do post their videos and they do come to the internet with like, "My husband is so bad. My husband is so we're fighting about who's getting up with the kids tomorrow. Even though tomorrow is Mother's Day and my birthday, of course, he should be giving her arrest. Like he should be giving her arrest all the time. Even if it's not Mother's Day, even if it's not her birthday, like he she should be getting like arrest all of the time, but clearly she doesn't when they're fighting about it for her literal birthday." Anyway, she came to the internet sharing this video thinking and expecting that she would get loads of women being like, "Oh, men, you know what? They're like, "Gh, my husband's the exact same." And probably that's because that's the way her family are or her mom is or her circle of friends are that like when they share those stories with each other, they probably are met with some sort of resonance or with some sort of attunement to each other where they're all they're all like, "Oh, yeah, exactly." and they get that like weird, what is the word? It's not even validation. I guess maybe it is a bit of validation when they all kind of agree with each other or they all just kind of like talking [ __ ] maybe about their husbands and um yeah, having everyone else agree with them and being like, "Yeah, they're really bad. Husbands are terrible. My husband does the same thing." Oh, if you think that was bad, wait till you hear what Jeremy said to me yesterday. Like, they're probably just used to that. And I don't know why because like we know by now maybe in like 2022 if you were sharing things about your husband online maybe like bad things about your husband or like um like fights that you had with him or whatever maybe in 2022 you could probably get away with being like I didn't know that they were going to say that to me. I didn't know that that was going to be the reaction. But in this day and age 2026 you're coming to the internet complaining about your husband and you good luck. Good luck is all I'm saying. Now again, this is not getting up with the kids and giving your wife a rest on Mother's Day. Is that diabolical behavior? Yes, it is. But is that the same thing as like a DV situation? No, it isn't. And that's the thing where like I think there's sometimes there's like wires being crossed a little bit.

[00:18:48]There are wires being crossed a little bit when we're having this leave him or leave me out of it conversation. I also think it's different to it's also different in real life and in online. Do you know what I mean? It's also different in real life in the real world and like online. I think it's completely fair to say like don't bring your relationship problems. Don't show us how diabolical your husband is if you're not going to leave him. Like what do you want us to do about it? Like what do you actually want us to do about it? But um but then in real life your friends maybe to say like leave him or leave me out of it to your like best friend is probably a different thing. Do you know what I mean? I don't know. We're going to continue this conversation. We're going to hear both sides of the story.

[00:19:32]But I have definitely been the friend who was talking to my friends over and over and over again about the same issue in a relationship previously over and over and over and over and over again.

[00:19:46]Like I have been that friend and nothing changed until like obviously I left. You know what I mean? But like I have definitely been the person in the past who I definitely leaned on my friends way too much rather than actually just like standing on business. You know what I mean? That would never happen ever again. Like I you know that would never be me this day and age. Like that would never be me. But definitely in the past, I have relied on my friends emotional labor in order to like help me while I was in a relationship with someone who was like actively harming me, actively hurting me. And I didn't have the the like it was it's very difficult to leave. It is absolutely 100% difficult to leave. I'll always say that. However, your is it fair for your friends to just like keep picking up the slack? Is it fair for your friends to endlessly offer you this like therapy and advice and emotional labor when you are not going to leave? And I'm again I'm not speaking about domestic abuse situations. I'm not speaking about someone who was like psychologically worn down. I'm not speaking about that blah blah blah whatever. I'm speaking about being in an unhappy toxic dysfunctional relationship that like you really shouldn't be in and the same problems are coming up over and over and over and over and over again.

[00:21:02]You can't communicate with that person.

[00:21:03]nothing's changing and you just keep going to your friends winging and crying about it, but then you just like creep back over to their house the next day and snuggle up like nothing's wrong. Do you know what I mean? Like these are two completely separate situations.

[00:21:15]>> I'm about to be a [ __ ] [ __ ] and it's not for no reason. Hear me out. This whole conversation about leave him or leave us out of it cannot just be like, "Oh, well, we're not talking about victims of abuse. We could also be talking about victims of abuse." You have no idea how many women have lost their lives just being friends of someone who was in a situation like that because they did not say, "Okay, well, if you're not going to leave him, leave me out of it." They kept saying, "I'm going to show up. I'm going to support you. I'm going to have your back a thousand%." And those women are not here anymore. And you know where a lot of their friends are in the same situation.

[00:21:44]That's just the reality of it. And so, yes, on a basic level, no, I don't want to keep hearing about that man over and over and over again for you to use me for emotional labor and then not go like go home and do nothing about it. Why is this interrupting my life? You know what I mean? That's a lot of emotional labor and emotional labor is real labor and we don't have that conversation enough. But on the other hand, if you are in that situation and on top of that, y'all tell your friend all this stuff about this man, then you go back to the man who is dangerous and instead of because he's dangerous, instead of saying, "Here's how I feel about this situation." Huh?

[00:22:12]Which I get. I get why you don't want to do that. But you'll say, "Oh, my friends don't think it's right that you so you've unleashed a violent and dangerous man on your friends. No, you didn't bring him to her house. But in theory, right, y'all are going to be places together. You could be out. He could pop up on you. She could come by your house and this man that you know is unsafe now has a problem with a main member of your support system because it's never like the people who say leave me out of it that have the problem with the man. So like yeah, people hate to say it and it sounds [ __ ] up and y'all keep trying to make this caveat in the c in the comments in the caption and [ __ ] It also happens there too. Like at some point you're going to have to wrestle with the fact that you do not want to exert your agency to get you out of a sad situation and that doesn't make it like everybody else's consequence to face.

[00:23:00]>> I'm the one that's also saying this doesn't apply to domestic abuse people and because there is in my opinion there is a really big difference between a toxic dysfunctional like roundabout relationship where you're just not being treated with respect and you're not being treated with consideration. Like you should not stay in that relationship. Like that's that's one thing and then it is a completely separate thing then is it's it's like a spectrum obviously like toxic abusive relationships whatever they're all on a spectrum. Um but this woman here obviously is saying that like no that should actually apply to people who are also in um DV situations or like serious abuse situations. So that's her that's her opinion and she has a point. She definitely has a point. But let's let me know what you think. Let me know what you think. Um, in all of this, we're also going to be listening to people who are on the other side of the thing.

[00:23:50]We're not just going to be listening to videos of people that are pro leave him or leave a side of it. We're also going to be listening to reactions from the other side in a few minutes. Why does some of you act like you are married with a mortgage and five kids and two dogs when it comes time to break up with your like weird manchild abusive boyfriend that your friends have hated for years and you also hate and you constantly complain about and you like make everyone listen to it and finally finally it comes time where your friends are like okay like I'm not going to hold your hand when I say this like you need to [ __ ] break up with him now like this is exhausting for us and for you and frankly we don't want to hear about it anymore and you need to like have some selfrespect and stand up and leave him and go find someone better or better yet be alone for a and go do your own thing. And like some of these women, bro, like some of these women, okay, some, not all, before you guys like freak out in the comments, um, they act like they are literally shackled to him and they have all these commitments with him. Like there's no kid, there's no legal paperwork. There's not even a pet.

[00:24:42]Half the time these people don't even live together. Like she has her own apartment and he lives with his family or like vice versa, like whatever. Maybe they both have their own living situations. Half the time they don't even live together. If it's like a lease thing and it gets complicated, like yeah, I get it. That takes time, but like at the end of the day, you still have to do it. But what gets me is when I encounter these situations in real life and there's like literally nothing holding them back from just saying like, "Okay, bye." and leaving. But they still don't for some reason. And they're like, "No, like no, like we just been through so much together." And it's like, "Babe, it sounds like you've been through hell and he's been through nothing because he's been putting you through everything." So, >> so I can definitely recognize that in my past self, the feeling of like, "No, but you don't understand. I can't leave them. I can't leave them." And yeah, that was definitely something that like I obviously needed to work on like bird brain, what the [ __ ] But there was definitely did not need them obviously, but um yeah, there's definitely I can understand that like the feeling of like we don't have kids together. We don't have a life together. We don't have like a joint connected inshed world in any way, shape, or form. And I'm acting like there's no way I could leave this person. There's no way I could live without this person. Like [gasps] obviously obviously completely untrue. I feel like maybe some of us when we're when we were younger I think we can all kind of relate to that feeling a little bit. But again, is it up to your friends? Should it be up to your friends to take on that burden of the endless emotional labor to try and iron out or seam out some of the damage that is done by insisting on staying with a toxic, dysfunctional man? And in that situation, I can admit and I can reflect from years ago or whatever I was a dysfunctional woman. What sort of um fully healthy like happy human would willingly stay with someone who was not very considerate or kind towards them?

[00:26:40]Do you know what I mean? And even though I didn't like mistreat anyone in that situation except myself obviously, I still it was still dysfunctional of me for to stay in that situation where I clearly was not being treated very well and I clearly was not being loved, respected, cherished to the way that I deserved. And the only way I could actually get there was to leave. Was definitely to leave. But when I was in that situation, my poor friends, my poor friends were [ __ ] sick of me. And they did say to me, you know, at some point, I think one of my best friends did say to me, she was like, "There's only so much sympathy I can have.

[00:27:19]There's only so much sympathy I can have. You're crying constantly. This guy's not getting any better. He's actually getting worse. And you just insist on driving over to his house every single weekend. And every single weekend, every single weekend, it's the same thing. every single weekend, every single Friday, you're driving over to his house. Every single Sunday, you are crying on the phone to me. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, it gets to a point. Like, it gets to a point. There was nothing tethering me to this man.

[00:27:42]Like, literally, there was nothing tethering me to him whatsoever. And again, it was a very like short relationship. It was years and years and years ago. Very, very short relationship, only like a couple of months long. And I was young. I was dumb. I hadn't like realized all the stuff I needed to realize yet. And I hadn't fully loved myself to the point where I was like, that can never happen again. But anyway, we're here now. Yay.

[00:28:05][laughter] This whole leave him or leave me out of it conversation just proves that a lot of you women are just like the men who you say are treating you so poorly.

[00:28:16]Because how dare y'all tell the women around you that they're bad friends because they no longer want to do emotional labor for the situation you choose to stay in every day?

[00:28:26]Yes. Leave the women around you out of it. It's so funny how y'all get more upset with the women around you than you get with the men who are actually in your face treating you like [ __ ] So many of you are just like the men you speak of. It's really not other women's job to put the pieces of you back together every time you get hurt by a man. And especially when you know you're not going anywhere. And especially because so many of you love to pillow talk and bring danger to other women's front door.

[00:28:59]Yes, leave other women out of it. If you're being abused, call a hotline, call the police, and stop trying to make other women the problem when your man and your choice to be there is the problem.

[00:29:12]>> There was also a really good analogy by Paris Moendo, and I've actually included her in some of my videos. I'll try to find the video there, but and I'll put it in here, but she was talking about the butter dish girl. Basically saying some women are butterdish women. Like not all women are going to demand certain levels of respect and dignity and consideration. Like a lot of women will accept a lot less. They will think that they deserve a lot less and they expect expect and accept a lot less from men because they haven't yet unpacked.

[00:29:47]And maybe they never will. Maybe they never will. Maybe they never will actually get to a point of realizing >> the butter dish girl is revolutionary.

[00:29:53]Nothing about her content, but mainly the reaction to her because there's a lot of comments where people are not BEING VERY SYMPATHETIC. LIKE PEOPLE DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT THE FACT THAT THAT MAN got you a butter dish. And this is the fact that I literally saw a woman saying, "You got a butter dish because you're a butter dish girl. You're a butter dish girl." And I think it's really reflecting a change in the way that we talk about women who are still centered men, who are still involving themselves with men, who are still um plating to the feelings of men all the time. We don't care. Like our our our patience for it, the the the amount of sympathy and time that we have to just like accommodate and always tell you, "No, you're a girl boss. No, you deserve better." Like, no one cares anymore. You know what I mean? Cuz in the year of our Lord, is having a boyfriend embarrassing? Where everyone's desentering men? And nobody wants to be involving men in their lives and women are waking up to how much better your life will be if you're not like constantly seeking approval from men? A part of ditching men is also going to be ditching women who are still with men.

[00:30:37]No one cares. You got to butter dish.

[00:30:39]And I think people are also acknowledging just how much like if you're butter dish girl like that man has butter dished you so many times in that relationship and you still stayed.

[00:30:46]You're married for god's sake, you know.

[00:30:47]And so I think that there's more of this understanding of like butter dish girls know they're butterish girls and they keep themselves in butter dish scenarios and no one really cares to like help you or like you know save you from yourself anymore. And I think that that's going to be one of the most productive things we can do we can do for ourselves as women. Like ditching this whole girls mentality and being like no we're going to hold girls accountable to like the life experiences that they're having.

[00:31:06]This is going to be genuinely revolutionary. Not all women are like super angels as well. And I say this all the time as well. #notallmen are pieces of [ __ ] And #notall women are like gorgeous amazing angels. And we've we've said that as well many times. And anytime I criticize men, anytime I make videos like this and I'm like criticizing men or like shitty abusive husbands or whatever, people will be like, "You're a man hater." And anytime I talk about women, such as my video about side chicks, proud side chicks or what other video? I can't remember. I made other I made other videos where I was like specifically talking about women and people would be like, "You're misogynistic. This is misogynistic." And I'm like, "No, shitty people are shitty people." Like, you know what I mean?

[00:31:45]Shitty people are shitty people. The only thing the only difference between misogyny and misandry is misandry is not like embedded into us by the time we're like children. Misandry doesn't like creep into um like everyday TV shows and everyday like life the way that misogyny does. Do you know what I mean? Um, anyway, what was I talking about? Oh, yeah. Some girls are butter dish girls.

[00:32:10]Some girls are are are conditioned to accept and expect nothing more than butterish treatment. And some of these women are kind of exactly where they want to be. Like what we were talking about earlier where we were saying that um they they almost like get off on when their husband does something bad because then they can take it back to the girls and they can get all the resonance and they're like, "Oh my god, my husband is the same. My husband is the same." And it's like just it's like camaraderie between certain types of women or whatever to have like a really shitty husband and to be like, "Yeah, aren't they terrible? Aren't they so bad?

[00:32:46]Aren't they shocking? They would be they're so useless. What would they do without us?" Like that kind of thing.

[00:32:50]And it's like, why do you expect so little from the man who's supposed to be the leader and the provider and the freaking whatever, the protector, and he doesn't even know when your birthday is?

[00:33:03]I don't know. So, for anyone who doesn't know Cecilia Regina, Dr. Dr. Cecilia Regina, she is one of my favorite content creators on TikTok. I think she also has a YouTube channel, but she talked about this topic. Uh, leave him or leave a side of it. And she hit the nail on the head for me with one of the things that she said. So, I'm going to like give her the floor so she can say it in her own words instead of having me trying to, you know, say her own words.

[00:33:28]him or leave us out of it conversation are showing their hand. The reason why the decentering men conversation was universally popular in like the first year was because it focused almost exclusively on the terrible things that men were doing. You show a video of a man smashing cake into his new wife's face or him breaking up her puzzle that she had made so lovingly, him not giving her gifts on Mother's Day or whatever, and women had that space to discuss all the terrible things men were doing, and they liked that. But when it came time for the phase 2 roll out of you changing your behavior, a lot of them got upset because they thought this movement was going to be a fulcrum to make men act the way they wanted them to act. They were ready to enjoy the fruits of other women's labor. They thought other women not dating, other women withdrawing from men was going to make their relationships better. And now that's why women are coming online with, "Oh, it's not a sin to want companionship. Don't let women make you feel like less of a whatever, a feminist, a thought leader, just because you want companionship."

[00:34:34]It's not about companionship. It's just that nobody else is going to pay the cost for you to have what you want.

[00:34:40]Leave him or leave us out of it is not oversimplifying the conversation. It's not blaming victims. It's not doing any of the myriad things people complain about. It is just saying you are the one who has to bear the responsibility for the choices that you've made. What a lot of women are asking for is for their friends or their community of women to bear the cost. They still want your labor. And I think that kind of perfectly sums up this sometimes where people are women were more than happy to engage in the conversations around men being terrible and this is my experience and this is what I'm going through and this is you know these are these are all the things that I've had to do for men and these are all the ways that men have made me feel and these are all the atrocious things that have been done to me at the hands of men. Everyone joins in. Everyone joined in and it's like that was step one. The next step is to absolutely refuse to put up with that.

[00:35:34]The next step is to absolutely remove yourself from any sort of whisper of that behavior, any sort of inkling of that toxicity or dysfunction going on, you do not accept it by any man in your life ever, and you remove yourself from the situation. A lot less women were willing to do that than they were willing to jump on board and like yap about it. And I think Dr. Cecilia Regina also hit the nail on the head when she said that these women who are who are unwilling to remove themselves from the who were unwilling to stand on business, they were just like yapping yappy y like a lot of the girls on Love Island, no offense, they're all yapping about standing on business and very few of them actually do. They're always like crawling back to the lads and they're always crawling back to these like horrible dysfunctional men. But everyone likes to talk about everything that they did wrong. Everyone likes to point out all the dysfunction, all the toxicity, how much they deserve, and I deserve more and I deserve this and I deserve that and he's he's not [ __ ] and he's this that and the other blah blah blah.

[00:36:32]He is. But then they will take him back probably immediately. You know what I mean? If given half the chance, not as many women are going to stand on business. They a lot of these women, as Dr. Cecilia Regina said are expecting their lives to get better off the backs of other women standing on business and off the backs of other women actually doing that work for them and removing themselves and men have to change because all these other women are desentering men. All these other women are forbeing are refusing to engage with men. So therefore men will be forced to change. Everyone has to. But the thing is that not everyone is ever going to do anything and there is always going to be a woman who will be willing to put up with nonsense. There will always be a woman who is willing to put up with nonsense. A lot of the times men don't have to actually grow and change and like evolve because there's always going to be enough women who are not demanding them to or not even demanding them to.

[00:37:28]You need to do this, you need just refusing to engage, just refusing to engage. Not enough women are doing that.

[00:37:34]So this video which is talking from the opposite perspective um went really viral and everyone was stitching this video in response to what this creator has to say. So let's hear what they have to say.

[00:37:49]>> Believe him or leave us out of it mentality. It's the same mentality that causes abuse victims to isolate themselves and not seek out help. And I'm seeing this a lot in response to Ken Yur coming on and complaining about her boyfriend's bad behavior this weekend.

[00:38:02]I'm not saying she's an abuse victim.

[00:38:03]don't know anything about the girl. But I am saying that telling her to stop talking about bad behavior or telling any woman who's in a bad situation to stop talking about said bad behavior is only going to isolate them. It's going to make them not want to reach out. It's going to give them a me and my man against the world mentality, which is the exact opposite of what you want. I understand like some people might find it annoying like you come and complain, we tell you to leave and you stay. All it's going to do is just give the power back to the man that is hurting them or that is treating them badly. Usually when women come on posting videos complaining about the behavior they're receiving from their partners, it's because they're asking for help. They're looking for community. They want affirmation that what they're experiencing is not normal. I just don't think that's a bad thing. Very few people leave on the first, second, third try of something going wrong. And if you really don't like it that much, if it really bothers you that much, just scroll. But to tell her or any woman coming on and complaining about treatment to stop talking about it isn't having the effect that you think it's going to have. I would really love to know how effective it actually is to come to the internet and share something that your husband did or your boyfriend did that was like atrocious and you brought it to the internet and you thought it was just kind of funny being like, "Oh, he's just so he's just so stupid. He's just like, can you can you believe he did this? Haha, lol. Lol.

[00:39:20]Love him." Um, but I wonder how effective it is to bring a video like that to the internet to have it go viral and then to have like thousands of women being like, "This is really serious.

[00:39:31]this. You need to leave him. This is not normal. This is not okay. Like, I wonder how effective that is. Like, that has happened time after time after time.

[00:39:38]It's almost like every single week there's a new butter dish girl. Every single week there's a new atrocity.

[00:39:45][laughter] Okay, that's a huge word. I'm like using really big words here. I shouldn't be. Every single time online Oh, did you see the um YSL gift bag thing? That's like a perfect example of one that happened this week. So anyway, I'll come back to that in a second.

[00:40:02]Anyway, Kate, [laughter] center yourself. I want to know how effective it is for that to happen. For a woman to come onto the internet to share something that her husband did. She thinks it's funny and you guys just don't get it. And like I just thought it was a little hehaha, but actually the internet is like, you need to leave. I wonder how effective that is. That's that like that whole event, that whole phenomenon because it's happened again time after time. How effective is that in actually getting women to wake up? And how many of those women eventually, maybe not immediately, but how many of those women eventually does that get the ball rolling? Does that get the ball rolling in terms of like, oh yeah, he actually did something similar last year and actually he did this other thing and like if they thought that was bad, they would think this was even worse. I didn't even tell anyone about that. Do you know what I mean? Does is it an effective strategy to get women to wake up or to get women to like get the ball rolling and plant the seed in their head that like because I do think ah sorry I'm stuck to the chair. I do think that one thing I don't I don't 100% disagree with what this creator said. I just don't think the workload should always be on women. This is the thing where I'm just like oh gez.

[00:41:11]And even like with my friends if I was ever in a situation again will never be me will never be me ever again. But if I was ever in a situ like my tolerance my tolerance these days is like it wouldn't wouldn't even get close to having a chance to like for any of that to repeat. But anyway, um if I did find myself in a situation like that, I have I would I don't I don't I personally don't want to put my friends in that situation again. Like I just don't want to do that. I don't want to be sending crying half an hour long voice notes. I don't want to be where like I seeing my friends once a week and spending the entire time talking about what that man said and trying to dissect what he said and decode his silence.

[00:41:47]I'm actually bored. Like I'm sorry. I'm actually bored. Like I don't want to I don't want to talk about that ever again for the rest of my life. And it certainly isn't my friend's job to try and like, you know what I mean? I don't know. But anyway, again, I'm speaking not about I'm not speaking about an abuse situation. Me personally, I'm not speaking about an abuse situation. I'm speaking about toxic dysfunction.

[00:42:06]Anyway, Did you see the YSL bag lady thing that happened? Um, I think it happened on Twitter and then it like made its way over to Tik Tok, but this woman's husband went to like this work lunch meeting thing or whatever and they had a raffle. He ended up winning a whole like pamper full of St. Lauron skincare makeup. Like it must have been worth like hundreds minimum. Hundreds minimum minimum. Probably could have been over a thousand. I don't know. very luxurious, high-end skincare, makeup, like, you know what I mean? Like, I want it. Give it to me. He ended up not bringing it home for his wife, who was at home raising their children, by the way, at home with a baby. At home with a baby.

[00:42:48]This man is at this fancy lunch getting like YSL makeup. He gave the makeup bag and the the pamper to his coworker. And then he got praised for being such as a good man, you know? He gave all this makeup to his his female coworker. M yeah, divorce. Sorry, divorce. I'm at home raising your kids and you have an opportunity to like gift me with such luxurious skincare that like probably is not available to most people. You know what I mean? And mothers, new moms probably especially are not going to be like dropping hundreds on luxurious skinare. That was such a good opportunity for him to do something amazing for his wife who was at home raising his kids. Anyway, that was just the latest one that I can think of that happened on the internet this week. But as I was saying, it is such a common thing on the internet to for women to come forward with their like stories of men who just are not great to put it lightly. Men who are just not like up to standard, men who are just not treating them with the respect that they deserve and blah blah blah blah blah blah.

[00:43:56]Anyway, is it is it ever are they ever going to wake up? Are these women ever going to be like, do you know what? Do you know what? No. You know, the internet told me I had 100,000 comments of people telling me to leave. Like, are they all wrong? Are they all wrong? How exhausting it is to see people make content about how terrible their partner is only to turn around and defend their partner. But when y'all say leave him or leave us out of it, what you're actually saying is suffer in silence. Of course, we as observers on the internet want everybody to make the choices that are like the most logical, keep them the most safe, the most happy, the most healthy. And when they're posting that kind of content, they're clearly not in that position. But they also don't want to hear the advice. Leave. But we don't know them. We are strangers to this person. We don't know why she's making this content. We don't know why she's making these posts. Maybe she's just looking to vent. Maybe she didn't think it would go viral. Maybe it's all just like rage, babe. Regardless, but women who make this content, and then more importantly, women who don't make this content, but see these comments, all they hear is, "Oh, shut up or leave him.

[00:44:49]Shut up or leave him. Shut up or leave him." Well, they're not leaving him because they're not at that stage. So what do they do? they shut up, they stay quiet, and he keeps doing what he's doing. It's not fair to try to get women to stop using an outlet to express their frustrations or their hurt or whatever because we are taking on the burden of, well, they're not helping themselves and that's really upsetting to me. If it's upsetting to you, stop engaging with the content. You don't know these people.

[00:45:12]You are strangers. Now, what you do in your interpersonal relationships, how somebody being in an unsafe relationship impacts you as their friend or their family or whomever is different. But we are strangers online engaging in content. If you don't like the content, it is less leave him or leave us out and more if I don't like that content, I shouldn't be engaging in it. Personal responsibility here isn't for you to try to convince this woman to leave this unsafe relationship by essentially telling her shut up or leave. It's for you to scroll. That's your role as a passive observer on the internet. You're not her best friend. You don't know that woman. So, don't be mean to her. If you cannot offer advice, support, a like, a listening ear, a resource to a DV hotline, whatever it is, your obligation is to scroll, not to tell her to shut.

[00:45:53]>> Okay, that was another video that was auntie. Leave him or leave us out of it.

[00:45:58]And I don't entirely disagree either. I can kind of see things from both sides, which is probably annoying for people that are listening. I'm probably I probably lean a little bit more to women need to stand on business and hopefully hopefully the women who are getting all of these comments will one day realize whether it's through content, whether it's through comments, whether it's through whatever that they deserve a lot more. But again, some, as we said before, some girls they're dish girls.

[00:46:27]Some girls are Buddhist girls and they expect nothing less and they um accept the butterish treatment, you know. But anyway, there's nothing we can do about that either. But what was I going to say there? I also agree about the fact that women only recently like really in the last like decade or so like we've had the ability to really share with each other on this level like and even gossiping has been has been weaponized against women so much. And I actually did I make a video about that. I spoke about it in other videos, but whatever.

[00:46:59]It has been weaponized so much against women. Like talking to other women, like being seen as a [ __ ] being seen as a gossip is like such a bad thing. Even in spirituality communities, for some reason, they're like, "Gossiping is such low frequency. It's such low vibration."

[00:47:11]Okay, well then I'm a low vibe. I'm a low vibe [ __ ] Like, I don't give a [ __ ] Whatever. But gossiping and talking, again, it's weaponized against women to get us to shut up when we're actually just like sharing information.

[00:47:24]a lot of the time, especially if we are talking about men, especially if we're talking about like bad men or dangerous men or whatever. And yeah, men again have like or men patriarchy, whatever has weaponized that against women to make us feel guilty or to make us feel like, oh, they're just a [ __ ] They're just a gossip in some way like to discredit us or to dismiss or like minimize like some of the things that we might be saying. So, is it fair to tell women to shut up? Is it fair to say like you've only we've only gotten to the point like really recently in history where we have been able to like really openly share with each other everything that's going on. And now people are like you need to shut up. You need to get back in the closet. You need to close that door behind you and you need to like be quiet and go back into the corner. Back into the corner. Be quiet.

[00:48:11]Be silent into the dark. We don't want to hear about it. We don't want to know about it. Which is very much the way that it used to be. Like when you think about, you know, when women did not have as much rights as we have today, when men were legally allowed to beat their husband, men were legally allowed to beat their wives, men were legally allowed to rape their wives and all of the abuse that was going on obviously still ongoing like obviously, but I just mean in terms of like women were not able to share openly as much as we are now. That abuse was all behind closed doors. And now we're kind of saying when we're saying leave him or leave us out of it, are we shoving people back behind closed doors? That is a good question. I also would say that there's also an aspect of like when women are sharing these stories of their husbands and they are coming to the internet being like, "Gh, can you believe he did this? Can you believe he did this? Oh my god, like he forgot my birthday. Like gh men, whatever." when they're making these videos and then like especially coming to his defense, they are somewhat normalizing it to like younger viewers maybe. I don't know. But that's also another thing that could be worth noting. I don't know. I'm probably like very flip-floppy in this conversation, but I think it's important to talk about both sides. I envy them. I really do. I envy those of you who have the privilege of never having to be in DV situations or in situations that are with absolutely horrific men that you are completely trapped in. And I do mean that genuinely. I envy the women who have the privilege of walking through life and never being stuck in these horrible situations. But realistically, there are so many women that are. But it's also important that you recognize that privilege because the fact that you guys saw that so many of you saw this immediately is like, "Oh, this is pro-woman." When in reality, all you were saying was, "Hey, I don't know how horrible these situations are. I have been lucky enough in life that I've never had to experience it and I'm not thinking about other women at all." It takes a DV victim an average of seven times to leave. Did you know that 55% of this country go unsolved, uncharged? Do you know how many of those are women and their suspects or their husbands or boyfriends, but they didn't have enough evidence. So, they were never able to charge them. Think about think about how many cases could be solved if these women had felt safe coming forward, felt safe. There had been a track record.

[00:50:40]They were recording it. They were posting about it.

[00:50:42]>> Kind of feel like we're jumping here a little bit as well from, you know, leave him or leave a side of it. Your husband who forgets your birthday or your husband who gets you a butter dish. your husband who whatever is like leaving the house really [ __ ] messy and like doesn't care about you and like me whatever I don't know whatever just like insert anything here or really jumping from that to like DV again you know what I mean and I kind of think as well it's not fair for this woman to say that anyone who says leave him or leave us out of it has just never experienced any sort of DV situations because I can tell you that that is I can I can tell you that that's not true and I can tell you that Um, like for me personally, you know what I mean? I'm I I don't know if I'm on the fence with this one. I think I probably I don't know if I'm leave him or leave us out of it, but I definitely am like, good luck, girl. You know, hope it works out for you, but like I'm also kind of rooting for you and I hope you wake up soon because this is not it, you know? Um, that's probably the side of the fence that I'm on. And I'm also like understanding that I understand how difficult it is to leave. I understand how difficult it is to leave an abusive situation. I do. Trust me, I do. But I don't think it's fair to say that everyone who's saying leave him or leave a side of it just doesn't have a clue what they're talking about. A lot of people have a very big clue what it's like to be in a really dysfunctional toxic relationship.

[00:52:07]>> Leave him or leave me out of it. What if she can't? What if she can't leave? What if for whatever reason, whether it's financially or they just had a child, she cannot leave that relationship. What if she has been in abusive relationships her whole life and she doesn't know how to get out of this one? Spark.

[00:52:27]>> And again, I think we are kind of jumping here a little bit to someone who is posting online about something that their husband did or something stupid that their husband did and then someone who is like, well, what if they don't what if they're in an abuse situation?

[00:52:40]Do you know what I mean? I'm just like, there's a spectrum. There's obviously a spectrum in my humble opinion and I Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with I don't know. I think there's again it's like it's like there's a difference between like in real life and online as well. I'm not sure. I actually don't know. Let me know what you guys think. I feel like I've been flip-flopping all over the place. I can kind of see it from both sides, but I'm also I also think I don't know.

[00:53:11]I kind of think I'm probably leaning more towards the leave him or leave us out of it. But also, if it was my bestie and if it was my friend, I absolutely wouldn't like cut her off immediately if she was going through something with a man. You know what I mean? I think I would definitely be empathetic. I would definitely be there for her if she needed me. And but I would be completely honest and I would be like, "This man is a [ __ ] joke. He's a [ __ ] loser.

[00:53:37]You deserve so much more." Blah blah blah blah blah. which was said to me also by my bestie. So, um anyway, that's all I have today. [laughter] Let me know what you think. Let me know your thoughts and opinions and I will see you in a few days and we will find something else to talk about.