Snap In The Mix | B2B Marketing Wins & Bins | SEASON 2 | EP1

Added: 2026-05-09

[00:00:04]Right. So, welcome back to season 2, episode one of Snap in the Mix podcast.

[00:00:09]Uh, we're going to do things a little bit differently this season. We're actually going to be talking about marketing wins and marketing bins per given sector each episode. This episode, we're talking all about B2B marketing.

[00:00:21]Everyone's favorite type of marketing, B2B. Um, I guess someone needs to start with a marketing win or a marketing bin.

[00:00:29]Who wants to go first? Do you want to go first, Charlie? With a marketing win for B2B >> as in a company >> company brand tactic.

[00:00:37]>> Well, well, well, I'm happy that you asked.

[00:00:41]>> So, um, there's a thing called notion, >> right?

[00:00:44]>> Which I very much love. Um, and if you don't know about it, I won't go on for 45 minutes about what it is, but it's essentially like an organization tool where it's completely limitless. Um, so you can use it as a CRM, task tracking, all of that stuff, and organize your life, your business, whatever you want.

[00:01:00]Um, and the way they've marketed their business is super clever because it means that they've kind of taken the work out of their own hands. So, they've turned it into a bit of a creator economy so that all the people that use Notion can actually create their own templates and then sell them on. So whether you're a fitness kind of um coach, you could create a fitness plan template for all of your clients to use or a CRM for other businesses to use.

[00:01:29]And essentially, you've got this kind of web or like not a pyramid scheme, but this web that just keeps growing and growing of people marketing their business for them >> for no cost really for them. So from my point of view, that is definitely a win.

[00:01:43]>> A marketing win. Yeah.

[00:01:44]>> Let other people do it. It's like influencer marketing kind of in a way.

[00:01:47]It's just sort of >> but it's interesting to see it on like a B2B perspective because I think quite a lot of places have you know their referral schemes, affiliate schemes, etc. But it's not often you see um a company in the B2B space actually allowing people to templateize and sell on.

[00:02:05]>> Well, that is probably really good from like a um I don't know what you'd call it, like an R&D perspective, like letting people know or like >> leaving it up to other people to optimize how they're using the platform.

[00:02:15]Yeah, I can imagine they're all trying new things >> and then they can look at how people have developed stuff and be like, do we want to push that further? They keep using these features. Do we want to develop that more? We're leaning into like this clientele who are really pushing selling templates. So maybe then we want to focus on them from a marketing perspective as well. Like you say, it just gives them so much research which is pretty epic. It's a >> really smart way of marketing, isn't it?

[00:02:40]just like make a really good tool, put it in the hands of the right people, and they'll do your sales, your customer support, like all of that for you.

[00:02:47]>> Yeah.

[00:02:48]>> Is that is the fancy name for that? Like peer-to-peer marketing?

[00:02:52]>> It would be peer-to-peer. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I don't know if that's fancy.

[00:02:57]>> Is that is that the correct term for that kind of tactic? I guess >> peerto-peer. Yeah. Well, customer to customer, I guess. Yeah. Sort of thing.

[00:03:03]Yeah.

[00:03:03]>> Cool. Um Tom, any wins or bins for B2B marketing? I think a massive win would be founderled content.

[00:03:10]>> I think the world we live in now is very much um everyone's kind of cottoned on to the performance marketing and like getting uh clicks on Google and things like that's becoming way more competitive. So everyone's kind of everyone's kind of doing it. Um and I think a way to really stand apart from other competitors is try and inject your personalities into it. whether it's the founder or the leadership team or anyone like that. I think getting on LinkedIn or whatever social platform suits you, doing video content and doing content that is uh sort of founderled or leadershipled just gets people to know the real humans behind the brand and I think that can nudge them towards choosing one brand over the other for sure.

[00:03:57]>> Yeah, it definitely builds a bit of trust, doesn't it? And I love following a founder story, kind of seeing the the backstory, the grit and everything that goes into it and makes them a lot more relatable um and just like personable as well to get involved with.

[00:04:10]>> Yeah. And I think a lot of founders probably are a bit fearful of not coming across as perfect and polished as their front-facing brands might want to be.

[00:04:19]But I think having the real authentic side of them is much more valuable and credible and believable than trying to hide behind this really polished facade all the time.

[00:04:31]>> Yeah, I agree. I think that I honestly think that's your like secret weapon as a founder. If you've if you're like a startup or a scale up size business and you've not got lofty marketing budgets, if you can get very good at storytelling and telling your story through like Instagram or through whatever channel, then that is definitely the way to grow your brand or grow the your business your business brand. Um because people just resonate with that story. And even when it comes to like finding suppliers or people that you're trying to, you know, get exchanges for and do collaborations and free things and whatever, it's like as if they know who you are because they've followed you for a while, they see your story, then it's just like bypasses all of this.

[00:05:05]>> Yeah, definitely. There's a um electrolytes brand called Salt. S U L T.

[00:05:10]I don't know if you guys have heard of it. Um, but they're basically it was uh one girl was an influencer and then this other guy that she actually met on a Tinder date and then they didn't end up as a couple, but then they ended up starting this business together. And they've documented the whole process of of building the business before they even got to producing the products. So, all of the ups and downs, like really authentic, really honest, and they built a huge community of like cult followers.

[00:05:38]So as soon as they launched their product, they sold out of everything and they were doing all of it like you say on a shoestring budget without investments. They managed to self-fund the whole thing and have everything have everyone ready to buy from them.

[00:05:50]>> And I've seen across LinkedIn as well everyone using their case study to talk about how well to it is how well to like kind of build your community and share your founder story which has just pushed them even further.

[00:06:02]>> Yeah. Yeah. I think the expectation now you can't just rely on having a good product or service. You need to talk about it. You need personality in it.

[00:06:10]You need you need more content across all social channels. So, >> well, and I think when it's just people led, like people buy from people and people follow people. Like even if you're looking at like Elon Musk versus Tesla or Ronaldo versus whichever football club he's played at, do you know what I mean? Like all of those in whatever sector, it's like you you follow the people for the the people.

[00:06:30]But I think it's actually quite difficult in this day and age to have like a really strong brand account, particularly in like a B2B space. Yeah.

[00:06:36]Cuz like how many infographics about your kind of performance can you post before people are just like this is >> this is so boring.

[00:06:45]>> Well, you think of any of the good brand accounts that get spoken about and that go really viral of say accounts like Ryan and the reason that goes viral is because it feels like a personality in itself. Like it's that crazy person just saying rogue things. So you're like connecting on a personal level even though it is a brand account. Like you say if it's just infographics like we've made this much this year. No one wants to hear it. Like boring.

[00:07:08]>> Yeah. And I think one of the big biggest problems is also a lot of founders and business leaders struggle with time.

[00:07:16]Some of them are maybe a little bit camera shy. There's a lot of barriers often to doing it. But actually, you don't need a super polished podcast. I mean, like us today, we've got the luxury of this new studio, but we can >> shameless, >> but you can do other content just by using your mobile phone. Yeah. Yeah, you don't it doesn't necessarily need to be scripted or anything too profound. You just need to be present. I think >> definitely >> it's easy to fall into the trap of like blaming production value as to why you've not started making content. I think especially in like a B2B space because it's like this perception that everything has to be polished like you're saying, but really if especially if you're just like doing a little piece of the camera that you're posting on LinkedIn, I actually think that's more effective than like a polished video.

[00:08:00]Um, there's obviously a place for sort of polished videos, especially if you're trying to sort of build credibility in a B2B environment, but I think it definitely shouldn't be an excuse in this day and age, like, "Oh, I can't do this video because I haven't got, you know, like a 15 grand camera and a nice studio."

[00:08:15]>> Yeah. If you wait till you're perfect, you'll never go.

[00:08:17]>> Exactly. Yeah. I think some people just need a little nudge and just try it. And sometimes you're not going to get it right first time, but what's the worst that's going to happen? You can just delete it and re try it again. Shoot it again. Yeah. And like the your first content you put out there probably isn't going to be the best, but you learn from feedback and you learn from pushing it out there. So I think being being present is way more important than being perfect.

[00:08:40]>> Definitely a bit of trial and error.

[00:08:42]>> I think also >> yeah unless you are an absolute person.

[00:08:48]>> I was just going to add to that. I think they're really good points, but if you're kind of stuck as a founder and unsure like where do I even start? What do I post about? I think it's kind of like stripping it back first of all and kind of really figuring out what your point of view is and what you'd like to be known for and then not being scared to repeat again and again and again >> because that would make you a trusted person and especially in that area and you get known as that's your area of expertise.

[00:09:15]>> Yeah.

[00:09:15]>> Like if you think about for example your friend if they constantly came to you with a different opinion every time >> you would start to distrust them if their values changed all the time and stuff. So, I think don't over complicate it when you're trying to create content.

[00:09:29]Just decide on one area that you really >> feel strongly about and just continue to talk around that area and there'll be so many split off topics you can talk about on that area. Yeah.

[00:09:40]>> And just build from there.

[00:09:41]>> Yeah, agreed. I think people do get scared sometimes that they're repeating themselves. So, yeah, just sometimes beating the same drum and getting the same point across, get the message out there because your one piece of content is not going to be seen by everyone. So, It's okay to say it more than once and it's okay to say it across multiple different platforms in different ways.

[00:10:01]>> Yeah, I agree. Yeah, just echoing what Charlie said there. I think it's a good exercise for everyone to try and like identify their content pillars ahead of So basically then when you're producing your content, you're not starting from scratch every time and going, "What the [ __ ] am I even trying to say?" Just pick three topics that you care about. You haven't even necessarily got to be that knowledgeable on them because you can tell your story about acquiring knowledge on those topics. But just pick three and write down like 10 ideas for each that you can or things that you care about per uh content pillar and go from there. And there's >> Yeah. And there's six months content sorted.

[00:10:32]>> Yeah. Just batch ideas and get recording. Um can I share one of my marketing wins? You can. Am I allowed to do that? Um so one of my marketing wins is actually just like a brand and a campaign. Um, Canber is the brand obviously big fan of Camber. Love what they've done in terms of democratizing design and letting everyone have a go which I think is just fundamentally great um as a thing. Uh but their campaign that I want to talk about is basically their the tagline is what will you design today and this was sort of like a uh multi- what's the word like multi-dimensional campaign as in omni channel campaign out of home digital um the actual video is what I'm talking about which I'm saying is a very good video but basically tagline what will you design today why I liked it tapped into the idea that sort of the first step to a new business or a new objective or achieving anything in life is like having the capacity to design it, whether it be a presentation or a logo for a new business or just like I don't know like a diagram that illustrates an idea. Um and the whole campaign basically >> just taps into that um as you go, which I think was really clever.

[00:11:41]>> Yeah. Just putting the power in your hands.

[00:11:43]>> Yeah. Yeah. And I think it was showing it from lots of different perspectives as well. It was kind of showing that design is for everyone and everyone can have a go. It's not just for someone creating a logo or one specific thing can be used across so many different channels.

[00:11:58]>> Yeah. And I think it g gives everyone like the ad itself kind of gives everyone a kick up the ass by addressing the main pain point of like you can start today. It's you can use our platform for free, you can design something and you can get your idea going. So it's like really tapping into the pain point of like oh where do I even start? It's giving it's communicating and giving you a place to start. It's saying it's not actually that hard to start and it's basically saying once you start using our platform everything will feel easier. So it's like a really good >> it's again similar to what we were just saying before. It's a >> the barriers are so low. So your excuses aren't valid anymore. Just get started, make it happen. Messy action better than no action. Just go for it.

[00:12:37]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:38]>> Yeah. And people love it when they try it as well. The amount of times I've heard someone said, "Look what I've made on >> the first."

[00:12:44]>> Can be a bit of a designer's nightmare sometimes because people do see people butcher things once you've given them sort of templates and stuff like that. I think for getting started for like >> small businesses or people that just want to get the ball rolling and maybe haven't, you know, had any marketing experience or design experience before like it's a crazy >> Yeah, definitely. And with the addition to AI in Canva as well, like it's just getting better and better. Like I'm a big fan. Mhm.

[00:13:07]>> And if you have got a brand agency or an agency working with you, you can get them to upload a lot of the assets and templates for you onto your Canva account. So they do all the creative concepting and come up with a brand that really resonates with who you are and what you stand for.

[00:13:23]>> And then you can then take those assets and start making stuff yourself. So it just takes the production cost of design right down, but you've still got it backed by proper agency design team that have done the branding and the >> foundational stuff. Yeah, >> definitely a good way to use it. I just think they've been really clever in making >> like I guess I don't know how long it's been around, but I'm assuming sort of 10 years ago Canva wasn't really like a household name, but I think now in terms of like even probably even more so than like Adobe or like Adobe amongst designers, for example, >> Yeah. Obviously, >> for your everyday person.

[00:13:57]>> Yeah. For your everyday person. Like I think everyone from like a small business owner through to someone who was just designing like a little menu for a Christmas dinner that they're having at home with their family now knows of the brand and they're doing a really good job at expanding on their services recently and communicating that with everyone. So when you're actually on the platform sort of in inapp selling pops up and they're like, "Did you know you can make a website with us or use our new AI features or remove the background of this picture with this?"

[00:14:22]And it's kind of very good at taking you on a journey how to optimize the platform. So not only is it good at like getting it in your headsp space thinking, oh maybe I'll have a go on camera if you haven't heard of it, but once you're on it, it becomes so user friendly that it's like hard to stop using.

[00:14:36]>> Yeah. It's hard not to go up to the premium version, right? Because the free version anyone can have. But then I think to get certain access to images, icons, upload your brand, your colors, your fonts. If you want to do that, it's like seven, eight quid a month, >> which is still kind of phenomenal.

[00:14:54]>> That's a no-brainer.

[00:14:55]>> Yeah. Especially comparative to like the the Adobe subscriptions and things like that.

[00:14:58]>> Oh, yeah. They're astronomical.

[00:15:00]>> Yeah. Comparison. Yeah. Um, any more marketing bins, tactics, or strategies in B2B that you think just need to not happen anymore? I've got one that's a bit of a pet peeve that really annoys me is the um >> spelling >> is the cold outreach on LinkedIn by AI bots when they're trying to sell you >> um >> do you want me to get you 20 new potential clients in the next 30 days?

[00:15:30]Do Yeah, that just really annoys me.

[00:15:33]>> Pops into your inbox. It just you just know that it's spammy and it's a bot and it's yeah just completely turns me off to that business that is trying to sell me something without actually >> knowing you >> nurturing me or knowing me. Yeah. It's completely cold out of nowhere.

[00:15:48]Sometimes it's not even relevant. It's just like I mean it's selling me a product or a SAS product or something that I'd never consider anyway. So >> they're just wasting their marketing budget.

[00:15:58]>> What would you say is the right approach to that sort of thing? Uh, I think LinkedIn can be really useful as a tool, but it's about setting up your audiences. It's about maybe um really getting clear on your who you're targeting first and then target specific people in the right jurisdiction, in the right jobs, in the right thing that have probably had an interaction with your brand at some point already. And then instead of going straight to sale, it's maybe trying to get some more information about how you can help them or what their pain points are or something along those lines.

[00:16:31]>> And then yeah, make it a two-way thing rather than >> Yeah, it has to be led with a bit of a deep dive into discovery about that person. Like fair play to anyone who's willing to do cold >> outreach in general. I guess it's easier behind a keyboard than it was pick up the phone like you probably used to do.

[00:16:46]But I think where it's been effective on me where I've actually sort of acknowledged the the person and actually engaged with them was when it was just very human conversation like hey what are you working on at the moment sort of thing and then obviously that leads into can I edit your podcast or whatever >> but at least they've built a little bit of rapport and they show that they care and it's not like an automated message that's just like >> we we specialize in editing your podcast blah blah blah blah blah you know and it's like I would love to see the data on how effective >> cold AI outreach is for people. There's obviously certain sectors where it kind of >> yeah less and less effective. Well, that old version of it which is feels old now where it is just those LinkedIn direct messages which have no context and bad targeting that feels quite old school now. Like I have no doubt that AI is going to pick up if if it hasn't already. so much so that potentially you wouldn't even notice that it was AI because it was so personalized the message like maybe it would tap into like what you've been like looking at online and stuff and I'm sure that's not far away and then those LinkedIn direct messages >> will feel very targeted but personal but at the minute they just feel like the really old school kind of email cold marketing that you used to get that go out to thousands of people at the same time.

[00:18:06]Yeah, it's a bit like having a conversation with someone in real life and just going straight in, >> I sell, >> do you want a six-pack, like instead of like you said, >> yeah, instead of like you saying like, oh, you know, what are you up to first?

[00:18:21]Like the question about you before spouting all of my stuff I'm trying to sell.

[00:18:26]>> Well, you wouldn't be at a networking event and then just instantly go in with >> Yeah. You know, like I generally think a better tactic in terms of BD, sales, everything, just be be a normal human and don't be get to know the person on a normal level. Get to know what they value. And this isn't so you can like manipulate that into being further down the line. Like they don't share the same values of you. You're going to be very hardressed to sell something to them. And there will probably be people with >> a similar set of values that you could talk to and it's worth spending time with. And it probably won't even feel like selling when you're talking to them because they actually are just already kind of aligned with how you think, right?

[00:19:03]>> Yeah. Absolutely agree. Yeah.

[00:19:05]>> Yeah. Marketing bin.

[00:19:06]>> Marketing bin. Um, this one's been in the bin for a long long time, but it's still very prevalent everywhere, which is feature first marketing.

[00:19:15]>> Um, which is shouting and spouting about all of the features of, say, for example, your tech platform. Oh gosh, it has like it gets you a hundred leads and it does this and it does that and it's got I don't know memory of this amount and the speed is this amount etc. And it's like I don't care. I don't care how it's done. I just care about the outcome and I care what my life looks like once I've had the outcome. Um, I think whoever builds the platform, whoever runs the business is obviously very passionate about all the work that's gone into the workings of it, but don't assume that your consumer is passionate about that as well. They're not. They're passionate about the reason you started it in the first place, which was to get to the outcome. Yeah.

[00:20:01]>> So, focus on the outcomes first.

[00:20:02]Whenever you write any copy, any marketing, etc., always think, what is the outcome for this? And how does my client's life look like? What does it look like after they've used it?

[00:20:12]>> Yeah. But also, I think being aware of the pain point as well. So, making sure you know what their current pain point is and how your product is going to help them.

[00:20:21]>> Yeah.

[00:20:21]>> Yeah.

[00:20:21]>> Yeah. Without say Yeah. Without saying the full list of features and the nitty-gritty. Yeah.

[00:20:28]>> Like this is where you are now. This is the pain you're in. This is what happens when you use our product and this is how it makes you feel. It's so easy to fall back into the trap of focusing on like technicalities or features though. Like even yesterday when we were looking at the podcast website and I'm there like oh we should probably say this 4K video capture and you were like no just say like it's like I don't know YouTube ready or like you know what I mean just flipping stuff on it.

[00:20:54]>> It's a choice of language.

[00:20:55]>> Yeah. And I think you can get it across but just say it in a consumable way.

[00:20:59]>> Yeah. I think there is sometimes exceptions to this though in that like particularly in technology.

[00:21:05]>> So like at a brand level I completely agree. So like using the example of Apple when they said sort of a thousand songs in your p pocket instead of one gigabyte of storage for example. And I think at top level that's very important because you're broadening the market of people that can understand what you're talking about. But then there are definitely instances when like if you've managed to make it through the marketing funnel of Apple. So you've seen that ad, you get through to their website, you find a laptop that you like. If you're sort of trying to discern between two types of laptop and you're the guy that cares about features, do you know what I mean? Or gigabyte or RAM or whatever, you know what I mean? All of that good stuff. I think there is opportunities to have those specifications and things there, but it doesn't need to be at the top of your marketing funnel. It needs to be in the decision- making closing phase. And I think a lot of people fall into thinking like you were saying there that this closing bit here when you're talking about specifications is what people and that's when you're choosing between products within a brand I think or within like you know a product list not deciphering between do I want that brand or do I want that brand.

[00:22:07]>> Yeah. The features are literally sat on your product description. Yeah. When you're like, yeah, just before you're adding to cart sort of thing like or in a little drop down or if it's something that requires a load of information, don't plaster it all over your sales page when it's like two pages long.

[00:22:24]>> I mean, it like adore then click here and go here and you can access more. But 90% of people won't require reading more. So why would you extend their user journey?

[00:22:37]>> Yeah. Give them more things to do rather than buy.

[00:22:39]>> Yeah.

[00:22:39]>> Yeah.

[00:22:40]>> Quite nicely leads into my marketing.

[00:22:43]>> My marketing Jesus. Uh quite nicely leads onto my marketing win, which is um Slack, which we all use Slack Workspace here, which is it's really good tool. A bit like Notion, like it's just very good at what it what it does. Sort of like a comm's tool. Um, but they did a campaign recently where they rather than focus on sort of all of their like techy features or how the platform works and all of that, basically the campaign says what it feels like to get 48% less email, >> which I think anyone who works behind a desk and receives the volume of emails that we still do >> is going to be happy when they read that and instantly just like you align with that message.

[00:23:22]>> That feels like a weight.

[00:23:23]>> Yeah, literally. Although I do wish they went further and said what it feels like to get half the amount of emails you do.

[00:23:31]I don't get why they'd leave the 48.

[00:23:34]>> Well, it wasn't quite 50, was it?

[00:23:35]>> I just put an asterisk. Do you know what I mean? Put an asterisk and then just put it >> just look dodgy when I'm like or or just wait till it gets to 50. Do you know what I mean? And then go >> get half the amount of emails. Yeah. I just think it would be slightly better if there wasn't a number.

[00:23:49]>> Maybe it's more believable than 50 though.

[00:23:51]>> Yeah, there might be some psychology that be fair. half the amount of emails you used to get.

[00:23:57]>> Yeah, >> way better.

[00:23:57]>> Or 80%. Why not?

[00:24:00]>> Yeah. No more emails or something. Yeah.

[00:24:02]But I think the the campaign works really well that I saw. This particular one was on like an outdoor out of home billboard. Very playful and colorful.

[00:24:11]Doesn't look like a kind of drab BTOC ad stuff that you'd normally see. Outcome focused marketing. Very painoint focused as well. Um and it's targeting sort of the decision makers in a business. So, I mean, typically, I could imagine the further up you go in a business, a lot more emails you're going to get that probably just visibility emails just CCD in on [ __ ] right? Um, and it felt like this ad was just talking directly to that person that's making that decision that we are now using this coms tool, everyone, off you go, rather than targeting the person who might be a user of it, who might not really understand why we're using this tool, which I thought was quite clever. Um, and they they also because I guess when you're talking about like a comms tool, um, it kind of makes you feel as if it would be just a just for people who are working from home, but they have like two campaigns where it's talking about people who are in the office and how it shoot like supercharges productivity in office, but then it also supercharges at home. So, it's like addressing both cohorts that would use it rather than just going, oh, you work from home, you need this >> coms tool. It was like they did like a walkthrough of an office in a campaign as well where it's like, "Did you see the message I sent you on Slack?" And all of that sort of stuff. So, it kind of >> broadens their audience through these campaigns and through their branding, which I thought was clever.

[00:25:23]>> Yeah, it's definitely so important, isn't it, when you're looking to do any sort of campaign is not just who is our most ideal client, especially if you got the budget there and you can spread it a bit, then try and hit all of your ideal clients and AB test the creatives and the messaging, etc. And I'm sure Slack's got quite a bit.

[00:25:41]>> Well, I can I can imagine that was sort of born out of before launching or maybe when they were in the inception of their business, they probably realized that like, oh, a lot of people don't think this is for them because they don't have teams that work from home >> because this came out precoid, >> right? Yeah.

[00:25:55]>> So, well, I'm pretty sure it came out pre-COVID. Um, >> yeah, Slack's been around before.

[00:25:59]>> Yeah. So, like they obviously there was obviously a point of time where they said, "Guys, we need to address the fact that a lot of people's rejection points at the moment are that they think it's just for people who have teams working at home and it's not. It's also for people >> in office. It's just a far superior thing than sending everyone emails all the time, isn't it?

[00:26:15]>> As a as a tool, I I'm a massive fan of Slack. I think it's great. Although like there like Google and Microsoft Microsoft has Teams and Google has like a chat um feature on it. I still Yeah.

[00:26:26]much prefer Slack. I just think it's really nice how it organizes everything into channels and um yeah, you can have little canvases and stuff on there >> and it integrates with other stuff as well.

[00:26:35]>> Yeah. And it's way more open as far as integrations are. Yeah, it works really well for us, isn't it? Because like if we've got a client on like a partnership contract, we can create them a workspace that is just them and the key team members in Snap. So, we can just be >> not on call, but we can be there whenever it's needed. Everything is kind of logged in one area rather than lost in email chains, etc. And I think to be fair, um, Microsoft and Google doesn't quite reflect the same kind of environment that Slack creates at the moment. I'm sure at some point they'll follow. But >> yeah, and it's reliable as well. Yeah.

[00:27:10]Yeah. I don't think my Slack touch >> Yeah, it always seems to be super reliable.

[00:27:17]>> Yeah.

[00:27:18]>> Um, can I do another marketing bin that I feel like you'll agree with?

[00:27:21]>> Yeah. Go on then. Um, so this is just old school email newsletters where you've just summarized everything that your business has done for the last 6 months >> and all of a sudden you think everyone needs to hear about the fact that Barbara made cakes and brought them in.

[00:27:36]Uh, someone was promoted. Um, you now support insert charity here or whatever.

[00:27:42]I think it's fine to talk about these things, >> but I think they are far better suited for like LinkedIn as sort of snippet kind of snippet content in small bite-sized chunks just to keep people aware of everything you're doing. Not a sort of like almost like a letter from your nan.

[00:27:59]>> Yeah.

[00:28:00]>> Checking in with everything that you've done over the last or letting you know everything they've done for the last six.

[00:28:04]>> Quite often those emails feel like they should be a company email that goes around. They're like saying, you know, happy birthday, thanks to Thingy who's put a lot of effort in. This is, you know, the sales we've done, etc. It's it really feels more targeted to the employee and not the customer at all.

[00:28:22]>> Yeah, >> I am a little split on that because I do think some people neglect and don't use email marketing at all. And for some of them, like a quarterly update email is kind of all they have capacity for.

[00:28:35]>> Yeah. So them sending like new products, services, new hires, and like a little update with some set, do you know what I mean? With a call to action, I think is better than none at all.

[00:28:47]>> Yeah. But that's targeted at the with the customer.

[00:28:50]>> Yeah. And often their existing customer which they're just keeping an audience warm. So yeah, although I do agree with like that a lot of that stuff does sit on should sit on social channels and yeah, it should be more bite-sized chunks and dripped sort of drip fed out throughout a longer period of time.

[00:29:09]>> But I think some people if they don't have capacity and they are just sending a quarterly email, it is sometimes better than nothing at all.

[00:29:16]>> Yeah, as long as it's just directed correctly, I think >> I'm not I'm not against them in a format. I'm against them.

[00:29:24]>> Yeah. And it is maybe got a little bit of personality behind it. So it's maybe like in the founders tone of what you know what I mean.

[00:29:29]>> Well and if you are the type of brand that is like I was trying to avoid the whole like it depends thing which we kind of always end up falling into but this is an example where it does depend but I think you're sort of fighting against what needs to not be done at the moment. If you're still thinking, oh, our monthly newsletters, like look at the data and be honest, like, have you maintained like clickthrough rates and open rates of emails and has it moved the dial for your business in the last four quarterly update newsletter emails that you've sent? And if it hasn't, >> then it's probably really just very boring.

[00:30:02]>> And it sometimes kind of feels like they've just sent you something made on Microsoft Publisher that is like got like an like about seven pages of stuff.

[00:30:10]>> It's just it's the length thing that kills. too many things going on in one.

[00:30:14]>> I mean, I'd sooner recommend people send a weekly update of less things and make it short and punchy like an Instagram post.

[00:30:21]>> Then, >> yeah, >> I mean, to your to your point before, if you've only got time for a quarterly update email, there's really no point in sending an email at all because no one's on that list, no one's consuming it because you've just neglected your list completely. Yeah. So, I'd be way better off like putting a bit of time into thinking about what do we actually want out of this platform? Like what's the actual strategy behind it? And if we're not able to give it time, then leave the platform.

[00:30:50]>> Yeah. I think if you you generally if if it's taken you three hours to collect everything that needs to be in your newsletter, you'd be better off spending three hours looking at your audience data and going, "How can we build out these segments?" And then if that's all the time you've got that quarter for email, then the next quarter is okay, how can we come up with an email per segment that's relevant to something in their life. Yeah. And then the next quarter you build the email and you send the emails, but that's how to do it rather.

[00:31:15]>> Well, yeah. The email marketers are like they're all saying like send them one one a day. Like do you know what I mean?

[00:31:21]They're saying that rhythm and cadence is like what you need. But yeah, >> well our our approach is very much like utilize team members thought leadership and send little snippets once a week with specific >> I think once a week for B2B is probably like the sweet sweet spot.

[00:31:35]>> Yeah, B to C you can absolutely >> B to C. Yeah, B2C you can send three a day but again still with a point behind every email. If I'm writing this email, where's it going? What's the conversion?

[00:31:45]Like one point behind each email as well ideally, not like five points one email.

[00:31:50]>> I'm opened it. I've opened it. I'm confused. You were trying to sell something at top and I probably would have bought it. But then I kept on scrolling and heard about Barbara's birthday. So now I forgot that I was gonna buy the top.

[00:32:00]>> Now you're wondering who Barbara sake Barbara.

[00:32:04]>> It's all Barbara's fault. Yeah. But no, you're absolutely right. I think less per email in terms of like conversion points, especially in like B2C. I know we're talking about B2B, but like >> just be specific and think about the segment that is receiving this email and where you can utilize data to make it more targeted. For sure.

[00:32:20]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:32:21]>> Simplify. Agreed. Cool. Any more marketing wins or bins before we play a game? Uh, I've got one more and it's about attribution errors and it really annoys me when you're running campaigns and you've done a re I think you've done a really good job across like brands marketing um like nurturing clients and like focusing on the whole user journey and you're speaking with like the CFO or the head of sales or something like that and they are literally just looking at Google ads, how much have you spent and how much have you converted and they're like Right, we've converted 50 clients from spending 500 quid. We're going to put all our budget and all our effort into this from now on. And they completely like overlook all of the other >> Oh, the less attribute or the less >> Yeah.

[00:33:10]Yeah. So, you may have come along the journey, seen a founder content video, you might have received an email, you might have gone to an inerson event, you might have yeah, had a call with someone. Um, but the you end up going on Google, searching for the business, finding it, clicking on it, and then getting in contact and converting that way >> and the person in charge of sales or the money is just seeing that and they don't count any of the brand marketing and the nurturing and any of that as part of the journey >> and is yeah, it's just really frustrating especially when you've done loads of work to work on all of that stuff which contributes to I think this is why and they just want to continue doing um like yeah Google ads.

[00:33:53]directly attributable stuff. I think this is why CFOs should be banned for making marketing decisions >> because they live in spreadsheet and you're like you can't quantify everything you're doing. It's like it makes sense to you because you can look at it and it seems linear but that's definitely not how everything works. And I think there are definitely examples where >> you maybe want to lean more to towards like a directly attri attributable marketing model because your budget's that tight and you have to justify where every penny is going. That's fine. But I think if you're doing that void of appreciating that not every buyer journey is see ad click ad buy thing particularly in B2B where this like buying cycles are so important maintaining so important. Yeah.

[00:34:34]>> It's just a very silly thing to go ah well it's not we can't attribute it so we're not doing it. I mean the old school saying and it's probably very still still still very true is that it takes seven touch points before you get a conversion generally and that might be like you were saying see a founder story see um your mate using it and then eventually you have the conversion um but none of that's tracked >> but it's so important and also just for building trust continually as well like >> quite often um in the same kind of vein is that um people will go well I'll just do a service ad and not want to do like a brand awareness campaign at all, not have an always on campaign, >> but realistically, if I just see a direct service ad for a company I've never heard of, I've built no trust with, what's the likelihood, especially if it's high investment of me buying there and then, >> compared with if I'm continually seeing this brand awareness campaign just in the back of my mind, even subconsciously, and then eventually I see a message on a service ad that connects with I'm way more likely to buy it.

[00:35:39]>> Yeah, I think without brand awareness ads in general or like an evergreen approach, even if it is like a low spend but always on approach, you you're really going to struggle to build brand authority because subconsciously people are seeing this brand and this name.

[00:35:52]>> So by the time they see something that is maybe a bit more painoint focused to them or service specific to them, >> instantly you've got a bit more credibility which is very hard to kind of >> replicate unless you are constantly visible. Yeah. It's like building a house without foundations. Like you need your foundational stuff >> before you get to the exciting stuff.

[00:36:11]>> Yeah. Yeah. And they fall into the trap of switching everything else off.

[00:36:15]>> The sales stop coming through as well on on Google and then they're in up [ __ ] creek because they now need to do all of that hard work to start getting the brand visible. Whereas if you >> um spend a low amount over a long period of time, you are always there top of mind, tip of tongue. And when the yeah when the time does come they will spend but it won't have attributed it to maybe the entire journey. It's just that click that it looks it on the spreadsheet you can just see that one click that one number and that's all a accountant or a finance person will see.

[00:36:51]>> Yeah more than that. Yeah, sim similar to that as well. And I guess another a bin or a win if you do it correctly is just seeing the conversion that first like buy as like success and then just leaving it there and then forgetting about the whole other journey that comes afterwards.

[00:37:09]>> Like it should be a full funnel. So all of that stuff we were talking about before, all of those seven different touch points running, then they eventually you got do all this work, spend all this money, get them to purchase something, >> and then just forget about them.

[00:37:23]>> And it takes so much more money to attain than to retain. Yeah.

[00:37:27]>> So it doesn't take that much effort. You know, figure out what your email marketing funnel looks like. It's a quick automation. Maybe a few emails, few extra conversion points, taking them to some other products on your store. um provide them maybe with a discount code for like a friend etc. It totally depends on the industry you're in but just think about the whole journey and look at brands that you enjoy purchasing from and think about how they've kept you entertained and why you've kept going back and back and back again.

[00:37:55]>> Um so yeah just don't think of it as a one-stop shop otherwise you're leaving money on the table. And I also think I I completely agree and I actually think the most underrated marketing sort of approach in sort of B2B whether it's like a SAS product or something is like having a client success manager and just having good customer service once you've closed. So like getting to the close is obviously one bit but the amount of times that I've like been onboarded to a platform by someone who was in sales who was really personable really good helping me understand the platform. Then once you've paid the subscription, you're now using the platform. It's like, "See you later. Here's your client success manager who doesn't have never met before." There was no like onboarding or introductory call. And then all of a sudden it feels like I've just paid for this subscription to a platform that I now can't get the best out of. And matey who sold me the dream >> is now, you know, >> yeah, >> taking his commission, >> selling the dream.

[00:38:46]>> It's selling the dream to someone else.

[00:38:48]I'm like, I think it's just a very weird German journey. And I think increasingly you need to kind of there needs to be continuity between sales journey and then like experiential journey of platform or solution or >> I think in B2B that's massive as well because you often put your trust in the person um especially when it's you know what I mean like a service based thing.

[00:39:08]>> So you're putting your trust in that individual and then you might get handed over to an account manager that yeah you just haven't got that same click with.

[00:39:16]Yeah.

[00:39:16]>> Yeah. I think it's important to either introduce the account manager during the sales process or the saleserson kind of stays with the client on that first part of the journey to make sure that they >> Yeah, for sure. At least the first like few months, not just like right you've paid down, see you later and then that's it. I think that's just terrible. I think it's really bad >> especially with the rise of AI now as well. I think a lot of people are leaning into as soon as you do like a big sale or get a new platform, then you're just sat in some sort of like AI generated journey with a AI chatbot that's so frustrating and [ __ ] >> Um, so it really doesn't take much to stand apart because if you can just do that little personal touch just for like a few months or a few weeks afterwards, the comparison to other platforms is huge. Like you're just on to an absolute winner just for being a nice person. I think you use a AI to enable you to have more human touch points I think is the way you do it. So use AI to kind of do all the repeatable automated tasks. But if you the the companies that seem to be doing well at the moment are the ones that are like actually adding in more human >> touch points with Yeah. Because otherwise it's like >> just a terrible experience once you've actually got through and you've sold and you're just like what what's going on?

[00:40:27]>> Yeah.

[00:40:27]>> This seemed really good and now it's [ __ ] >> Yeah.

[00:40:30]>> Completely distrustful straight away.

[00:40:32]>> Yeah. Yeah. and you'll lose them and you won't get them back.

[00:40:34]>> Yeah. Well, anything's based on referrals, right? Like if you've let like you said at the beginning, like let people do your marketing for you. That's going to come from feeling really looked after by someone, not from like an AI bot being like, "How are you getting on the platform today? Read this literature to make the most of it." Swear to God.

[00:40:49]>> I don't want to read.

[00:40:52]>> Yeah. Just give me a person I can talk to that can help me, you know, >> and they can read.

[00:40:55]>> Yeah. And they can read it, too.

[00:40:59]>> Ready for a a bit of a game? Yeah, >> it ties in quite nicely. Um, but basically the game is called translate the [ __ ] And what we're doing here is you guys need to translate as much business jargon in. Should we do a minute?

[00:41:13]>> Yeah, I reckon we do it together and we just do one each and see how far we can buzz. I mean, you can have Should we have a buzz or something?

[00:41:18]>> No, let's just do we'll just do one each, I reckon.

[00:41:21]>> All right, do one each board until we get See if we can smash. You're doing it together.

[00:41:26]>> Yeah.

[00:41:26]>> Yeah, we'll take Yeah, we'll do one each.

[00:41:29]>> Right. Okay. Okay, 1 minute on the clock. Are we ready? You're going first.

[00:41:32]>> Yeah.

[00:41:33]>> Yeah. Right. Off we go. Um, build a compelling narrative.

[00:41:38]>> Create a story.

[00:41:39]>> Yeah. Drive meaningful engagement.

[00:41:46]>> You can pass if you'd like to pass.

[00:41:48]>> Well, I know what it means, but I always struggle for the opposite words.

[00:41:52]>> Yeah. Okay.

[00:41:52]>> Make people interact who actually care.

[00:41:55]>> It says get people to care. So, you can you can have the point there. Um, create stickiness.

[00:42:03]>> Um, make people stop and read.

[00:42:06]>> Yeah. Well, it says make people come back. So, half a point.

[00:42:11]>> Improve retention rates.

[00:42:13]>> Um, make holding on to clients better.

[00:42:18]>> Keep customers longer, it says. But >> this is a good one. Ex We got uh accelerate pipeline velocity.

[00:42:25]>> Um, get more sales faster.

[00:42:27]>> Yes.

[00:42:27]>> Yeah.

[00:42:29]Um, last one.

[00:42:33]Generate qualified demands.

[00:42:36]>> Um, >> or demand, sorry, singular.

[00:42:39]>> Make people want what you're selling.

[00:42:42]>> It was get better leads.