Confronted (1963)

[00:00:02]This thing is going to wind up as a white man against the colored man. And thank God we still have the majority.

[00:00:09]>> We will not be coerced into hiring any colored person regardless of his qualifications as a matter of arrest or as a matter of experience.

[00:00:18]>> It's just that when somebody says he wants 25% in by say the 15th or 17th of September, you can't push people. I think there's nothing wrong with a school that's 100% negro.

[00:00:32]>> When the negro can prove to the white man that he can live like the white man, then we will accept them.

[00:00:43]>> The only thing that scares me is the neighborhood all getting bad. And if we ever wanted to sell, naturally, your house depreciates and is the color get in.

[00:00:51]>> If they move in, the next step we have to accept is in her marriage.

[00:00:56]>> We can be sociable with them in work. We can get along with them and joke with them, >> but when we leave our job and close the door and we're on our way home, we want them to go in their direction and we can go in oursel >> national educational television presents >> confronted, a report on white Americans in the north who are personally confronted with the negro in revolt.

[00:01:26]Your reporter is George Paige.

[00:01:33]>> Throughout the North, the white American is confronted with Negroameans demanding freedom. Now, as you will see, he's confronted in Chicago, in St. Louis, in Fallra near Philadelphia, and in the New York suburb of Malvin. And the white man is confronted here in New York City's burrow of Queens.

[00:01:55]This is the construction site of a huge $96 million apartment complex and a continuing demonstration against alleged discrimination by construction unions.

[00:02:06]>> The unions deny discrimination. The Negroes say of 2,000 workers on the project, only 150 are negro.

[00:02:15]Let's go.

[00:02:16]>> ANY WHITE UNION >> JIM Crow Jim Crow Jim Crowell the same thing here and the main issue here of course is a continuing struggle against um against construction union you know >> truthfully they want they want more freedom I guess you know and more advantages and stuff like that but they shouldn't show it in this way I don't It makes him look stupid.

[00:02:47]>> It's just a waste of time. I think cuz instead of people uh thinking they're equal or people starting to like them, I think more people uh hate them. So >> think it's they're acting like animals.

[00:03:00]>> Ho ho. What do you know?

[00:03:02]>> Must go.

[00:03:03]>> Ho ho. What do you know?

[00:03:05]>> Must go.

[00:03:06]>> Ho ho. What do you know?

[00:03:08]>> Must go.

[00:03:09]>> Ho ho. What do you know?

[00:03:12]It's uh I I'm just wondering whether >> it's a case of wearing out your welcome.

[00:03:21]>> We we going we we'll be out here until the snowfall.

[00:03:26]>> We're going to stay here until something gives something has given somewhere.

[00:03:32]>> I only got a few more years to live and I want everybody else to live up in the mountains and hibernate. Would you mind one way or the other?

[00:03:41]>> Not a way.

[00:03:42]>> Neither way.

[00:03:43]>> Either way. Okay. What?

[00:03:45]>> What do you think about the demonstrations then?

[00:03:47]>> I think they're nuts.

[00:03:58]whiteim white >> actually they want to become president everyone >> and they don't want to work their way up they want to start at the top a lot of them >> it took years for us to get the conditions we have today and then we have somebody to come over there and say just push you on the side he said well that uh we want to take your place you just get the hell out >> everybody has a right to work cuz I'm looking to get out of the trade myself.

[00:04:30]You know, not that glamorous a business and it's a lot of hard work and uh it's not so easy, but they they got a right to live. I >> they can come on in.

[00:04:42]>> If they come in the way we all came in through the Palestinian program, >> then I believe it's it's all right.

[00:04:51]>> Do you think this kind of demonstration is effective?

[00:04:54]>> No. I think the leaders are taking advantage of it.

[00:05:01]>> Where are you from?

[00:05:02]>> Louisiana.

[00:05:03]>> What do you think?

[00:05:04]>> That's enough said, is it?

[00:05:06]>> Is it? No. Louisiana.

[00:05:08]>> You don't get a comment anymore.

[00:05:10]>> Okay. Thank you.

[00:05:11]>> Thank you.

[00:05:12]must go.

[00:05:16]>> White Union >> must go.

[00:05:18]>> White Union must go.

[00:05:19]>> We count cars here from North Carolina, South Carolina, Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, and and uh just stand here while they come through. You You have outofstate workers in this place where a negro can't get a job.

[00:05:34]>> What do women can do here? The woman can do a hard work. Women can do a hard work.

[00:05:41]I'll tell you one thing. Uh, as far as the figuring is concerned, >> they seems to be able to they are getting a few little results.

[00:05:49]>> They say we've been holding down a long time, but see, I never even thought about it. You know, like uh who had time to worry about them? I was struggling myself, you know. It's been tough for our side, too. But, uh, it's hard work. It's not so easy.

[00:06:05]I don't think the average guy is uh feels that you know he wants to hold him down or anything like I'm local 28 sheet metal workers. I don't think fellas in my union are prejudiced.

[00:06:16]>> I don't think anybody really prejudiced me.

[00:06:20]>> You think the demonstrations are a good way for them to get into the >> only way we pick it too. I mean we pick it when we want something. So it's only fair that they should pick it. Of course lying in front of a truck. Uh >> well I think they did that back in 30s so I really can't say too much about it.

[00:06:37]You know we had our trouble too in Flint Michigan but uh you know now everybody gets hot on the call. If I come to you and say I want your job you're going to get a little annoyed too. But uh they just want a percentage. They they want to work like anybody else. I hold nothing against them. I feel most of the fellas feel the same way.

[00:06:59]We're a different stock today. We're not from the old school where, you know, uh, hooray for me and the heck with you.

[00:07:05]We're more or less, come on, give everybody an equal chance. You know, I feel that way. My wife feels that way.

[00:07:11]I'm raising my kid that way.

[00:07:13]>> Well, I got to go home now.

[00:07:21]>> We shall not be.

[00:07:27]We shall not be moved.

[00:07:31]We shall not be moved.

[00:07:36]We shall not be moved by the pro.

[00:08:03]The train from Manhattan to Malurn, Long Island, a typical commuter train town.

[00:08:21]11,000 prosperous suburbanites live here, including a fast growing number of negroes.

[00:08:28]Until recently, none of Malvin's whites would have thought a controversy involving race was possible in their town. And then a new term, de facto segregation, took on real meaning in Malbourne.

[00:08:47]I think that uh the negroes in the north have been more often wrong than right and I think the negroes in the south have rarely been wrong.

[00:08:58]>> Al Hirschman is a retired Malver businessman. A controversial order came down from the state school commissioner and Hirschman spearheaded a movement to fight it in the courts and with pressure. The order. A plan must be adopted to end racial imbalance in the town's three elementary schools. One school is 80% negro. The remaining two 80% white.

[00:09:22]>> Most of Malver's Negroes live in a pleasant section called Lake View.

[00:09:27]>> There are no Negroes living in the Malver or the Lindbrook parts of the school district.

[00:09:38]When you by choice live in a community which is largely negro or largely white, when you by your own choice do that, even though the choice is dictated with pressures such as difficulty in moving into another community, still it's by choice, there's no harm done. We're now going to go to Lake View.

[00:09:59]>> And all the children in the district come to the junior and senior highs. Is that right?

[00:10:04]>> All of them. Yeah.

[00:10:06]And in Lake View, the uh population is primarily negro. Is that correct?

[00:10:11]>> No, 50% negro, >> but the population of the school, the Lake school is 80% negro.

[00:10:18]>> It will be this year. And almost all of these newer homes were taken up by negro residents. Some of them have Cadillacs in front of them. The middle class. And incidentally, it's mostly these newer residents and the wellto-do people in them who are causing uh the difficulties here. They came here to reform the place. The facts do remain that negro children do not perform as well in schools as white children. Now, you can ascribe whatever reasons you want. They're arguable. But the statement I just made is not arguable because it's a matter of fact. The strength of the negro race do not lie in the field of academic achievement as a group. Again making this generalization which doesn't apply to individuals and uh where then is it strength in fields of emotion in arts in uh in music and things of that kind.

[00:11:18]If you lose the suit, if you lose the court case, what will happen?

[00:11:24]>> Then I think Melvin School District 12 will become a totally negro community.

[00:11:29]Why? Because I think the whites will get out and the negroes will come in. If the the the conduct of the neg of the north foreshadows what the deagles of the south will want after they get an even break, then I say it's too bad for the country.

[00:11:51][applause] >> Hirshman is called the father of the taxpayers and parents association, TAP, called TAP.

[00:12:01]Tap obtained a court order stopping the state commissioner's plan from going into effect and a group went to Albany to pickot the commissioner's house. We >> all went up to Albany. We picketed at Albany and I want to say one very interesting fact came out of this trip.

[00:12:17]Since that time, we found that there are a lot of housewives in this community who would rather pick it than do housework.

[00:12:26]And we've had a real problem keeping them home in the homes. This group proposed the TAP Freedom Plan, which would allow any parent, negro or white, to send his child to either of Malurn's three grammar schools.

[00:12:39]>> Each and every individual should have the right to decide for themselves which of the three elementary schools they feel is the most desirable for their children to attend. And they and only they should be able to make this decision. [applause] >> [applause] >> The only thing I'm saying is I'm more interested in seeing what is to be offered as a solution to the problem.

[00:13:11]>> I do more of the travel.

[00:13:12]>> What did you have against myself? So I might better see.

[00:13:17]>> I have three little children.

[00:13:18]>> No matter which the way the decision goes, it is still going to leave the same problem. The decision is not going to be acceptable to one or another factor. Just a minute. Let me finish.

[00:13:28]Sure.

[00:13:29]>> Some people who are in favor of the Princeton plan have made it known that it's two uh that uh it would be 3/4 of a mile away, but that isn't so because we've clocked it directly from our door to the school and it's a mile and 3/4.

[00:13:44]>> Under the Princeton plan, all Malver children of a particular age group, both Negro and white, would be assigned to one school. One school building would be reserved for first, second, and third graders only. Its sponsors say the Princeton plan would prevent any one school from being more than 50% negro.

[00:14:03]>> But they would actually have to go double the distance to that school if the Princeton plan went through.

[00:14:09]>> They've said your particular your children in particular would have to >> Yes. My fourth grader would have to go.

[00:14:14]They because they would have fourth and fifth grade in there and every every three years uh kindergarten, first, second, and third would be in this school.

[00:14:22]>> Fourth and fifth would be in this school. sixth would sixth, seventh and eighth would be in this school and high school was here. So they would have to go to four different schools and and uh in that time and you know during their school career and I think that that's too many times to change >> but the thought that uh they would have to go so far away just to balance the races and I don't think that's good for them.

[00:14:48]>> That's another reason I don't like the Princeton plan. If this plan were put into the put into effect for the reasons that they want to put it into effect, this would definitely take away everybody's rights in this one small area as far as education goes. And then the next step is going to be uh telling people where they can live, housing, so on and so forth. It's got to come to that because if the state education department is going to try to control racial violence in the schools by destroying the neighborhood schools and if people all move out of a neighborhood and let's say it becomes an all-white neighborhood and Rockwell Center becomes an all negro neighborhood what are they going to do then merge school districts and then the next step when the people move again if people move again and change where they uh change the neighborhoods again and then the next step is going to be to tell you well you can't move anymore you have to stay there you'll upset the racial balance.

[00:15:44]>> The real problem is the the hysteria on the part of parents, you know, who I think one are really disappointed because the kids they'd like them to be nearby, but and two, I think because there are a lot of uh feelings that go below the surface that maybe a lot of people aren't willing to recognize in themselves. Rabbi Samuel Ch thinks something should be done to balance the races in Malbourne schools.

[00:16:08]>> Possible u to get both sides together.

[00:16:12]We're currently working on this. Now you see it seems to me that in the north nobody's against uh integration.

[00:16:17]Everybody's for integration but uh not now, not here. Maybe you know in next town, next century, but not here. And so it seems to me that this is really a part of a strategy. strategy is that you just can't say we're segregationists because only Governor Wallace can say that, you know, but this can't be said in the North. Everybody's for integration and and I I don't really think that they're bigots, but I think we all have a lot of problems and prejudice that uh we're not willing to face. One can attempt to defer the solution to this problem by simply saying uh it's a housing situation, it's a sociological problem, it's not a school problem. that's not facing the issue in Malvin. It happens to be focusing on the schools. This is the place to to start working on it. It's got to be broken somewhere. You just can't choose the place that you're going to start solving this problem.

[00:17:15]>> The Jefferson Bank, St. Louis, Missouri.

[00:17:18]Executive Vice President Joe McConnell is confronted >> on the afternoon of August the 28th, 1963, which was the deadline set by the core organization uh for our hiring for Negroes. Two of the uh representatives of core called it our bank and asked what we had intended to do and I told them at that time that our position was clearly stated that we would continue to follow a policy of non-discrimination and hiring of any our of all of our employees on a qualification basis if a need existed and uh they said then you're not going to hire four people by today and we definitely said we would not that do that. They said, "Well, then uh then if we would call off this demonstration, would you on a preferential basis power for Negroes within the next 6 months?"

[00:18:17]And I explained then that that is exactly what they were preaching against. That would be discrimination against the white employees. And we would certainly not agree to that.

[00:18:27]>> We want freedom. WE WANT FREEDOM.

[00:18:33]THE Congress of Racial Equality says the bank's practice contradicts its policy.

[00:18:38]Core says it's been 7 years since Jefferson Bank hired a negro and points out there are 80 white and two Negro employees >> into the bank to bank.

[00:18:55]They ticketed for an hour and then they blocked our doors and then they entered our bank singing, chanting, clapping and uh obstructing our business. We were absolutely unable to do any business at the time in spite of our statements to them that we would continue a non-discriminatory hiring policy.

[00:19:14]We are >> one of our most trusted employees, colored boy who's been with us, I think, uh, close on to 15 years. Started as a paper boy on the corner of Jefferson and Franklin Avenue. We put him to work as a porter, then as a bank messenger, and finally uh, five or six years ago as a statement teller, then as a teller.

[00:19:40]>> Dave.

[00:19:43]Dave, I want you to meet uh Mr. Paige.

[00:19:45]Hello.

[00:19:47]>> I've been telling Mr. Paige that you've been with us for what 15 years or 13 years >> 13 years.

[00:19:53]>> Have they been pleasant years? They >> very pleasant.

[00:19:56]>> Well, that's what I was telling Mr. Paige. And uh I was also telling him how you felt about demonstrations here at the bank.

[00:20:03]>> Yes, sir.

[00:20:04]>> How do you feel?

[00:20:05]>> Well, I think they made a stupid move. I think they were wrong in the way they came in. You don't demand anything. used to ask people and negotiate with them.

[00:20:14]That's the way I feel about it. And I think if they had came in and in the right manner and through due process, they would be given every consideration.

[00:20:23]But they didn't come that way.

[00:20:26]>> They came in with demands.

[00:20:28]>> That's right.

[00:20:30]And they came in and told us how many we had to hire by a given date. And that's what we presented.

[00:20:35]>> That's right.

[00:20:35]>> Regardless of what our needs were, regardless of what their qualifications were. I just tell Mr. Paige, I just love to have more people like you in this bank and maybe uh as a result of the publicity uh given this thing, [snorts] we'll be able to accomplish that someday.

[00:20:52]>> I hope so, Mr. Macau.

[00:20:53]>> Well, I hope so, too, Dave.

[00:20:55]>> Thank you. Glad to mention that.

[00:20:56]>> Not quite, sir.

[00:21:00]>> We'd just love to have more people of his integrity uh employed by our bank.

[00:21:05]We don't think of him as a colored man.

[00:21:07]We think of him as one of our people.

[00:21:09]And all of the people in the bank feel the same way. And that's why we've been so desirous of having uh qualified negroes apply here. We know that they uh have ability if they have had the proper training. Uh we know that they're entitled to equal opportunity. We don't think they're entitled to preferential treatment. And uh certainly we're not uh that would be discriminatory in itself to give preferential treatment to any group as distinguished from another group.

[00:21:39]Our position is clear. We intend to follow it. Uh we don't think we're the first bank picked out, but we the think we're the first bank in St. Louis uh who stood up for the rights granted all of us, whether we're bankers or garagemen to run our own businesses on a basis of opportunity, qualification, and need.

[00:22:00]That is our position and we will continue to follow that position regardless of threats of intimidation and coercion and everything else that's been applied.

[00:22:15]Negro jazz trumpeter Dizzy Gillespie staged a one-man sitin at this barber shop in Chicago's loop. He sat for 6 hours without service. got his haircut the next day after a man from the Human Relations Commission called on the owner.

[00:22:31]>> What about the problem of uh Negroes who come into your barber shop and want their hair cut or to any barberh shop? What's the main problem with that, Mr. Pro?

[00:22:43]>> Well, that's that's the problem that uh a lot of us don't know how to cut their hair. It's it's very hard because we're not used to cutting that type of hair.

[00:22:54]As I was saying, when I went to a barber college, we used to have about uh 17 18 barbers there and they had three color barbers.

[00:23:04]>> Mhm.

[00:23:05]>> And every time a color man come in, why they would give to them. So therefore, we have no opportunity to cut those people. So their hair is strictly all by clipper and I can't use clippers.

[00:23:16]>> What happened when uh Gillespie came in here?

[00:23:19]>> Well, I I didn't know how to cut his hair. Mhm.

[00:23:23]>> He he would take an awful chance of getting a haircut off of me.

[00:23:28]And not only that, but if a color man comes in to get a haircut by us, it hurts all these color barber shops. They got they got a lot of good barber shops in the city of Chicago.

[00:23:38]>> I mean, real good. Better better class than than mine.

[00:23:42]>> Was Gillespie the first colored manhood who had ever come in?

[00:23:46]>> Did you know who he was?

[00:23:47]>> No, I did. I didn't.

[00:23:51]What do you think of uh a public accommodation bill? A law that would insist that you had to do this, that you had to cut anybody's pay regardless of their age. Well, I would get because the uh the situation, I wouldn't know how to cut it. I think I would quit out of business as far as I'm concerned.

[00:24:15]>> You mean you'd get out of business?

[00:24:17]>> That's all.

[00:24:34]4,000 whites march on Chicago's city hall opposing an open occupancy bill under consideration by the city council.

[00:24:43]The marchers want a statewide referendum on the question, but the bill passes anyway and makes it illegal for real estate brokers to discriminate in the sale or rental of housing.

[00:24:58]>> The march was organized by Howard Scayman, the 31-year-old chairman of the property owners coordinating committee.

[00:25:05]>> The committee is made up of representatives from neighborhood organizations throughout Chicago. I can't see how they can pass something like this when the state voted against it.

[00:25:15]>> Well, they they won't be able to after we get through with them.

[00:25:18]>> Well, see, that's that's a relief. Okay, sir. Good to know that somebody's still fighting for the white people. See, they're stepping all over us. I have to work with them downtown and brother.

[00:25:29]>> Scan is becoming a familiar public figure in Chicago. There's even talk of running him for Congress.

[00:25:44]I'll go to anyone within a week.

[00:25:46]>> Within a week? Yes, sir.

[00:25:47]>> All right. I'll get a few circulating.

[00:25:48]I'll get them signed. But plenty of guys, but I all the employees that I talk with, white ones, sir. I mean, they're against it, but they say [music] what they say to me is, "What can we do about it? Nobody's doing anything about it."

[00:26:01]>> We're getting something done now.

[00:26:03]>> That's That's what I like to hear. Okay.

[00:26:05]>> Okay, sir. Thank you for going to Bye.

[00:26:10]>> [clears throat] >> parking lot up for the apartment buildings that he owns on either side here.

[00:26:15]>> Scan says he's against open occupancy laws on constitutional grounds, but he frankly admits no negroes are wanted in South Lawndale.

[00:26:25]>> Well, why basically though do these people not want the Negroes to come in?

[00:26:32]>> Well, it's not uh not a fear of Negroes per se. It's a uh definite fear of anyone who would run down their neighborhood. Home is probably the most important thing to uh people of this basic ethnic background.

[00:26:47]These are primarily Bohemian Polish people. People have a great deal of pride in their homes. All you have to do is look at uh what we're coming up to here ahead of us is while it's not typical of the community, it's certainly uh not the exception to the rule. Here's a man who has a parking lot.

[00:27:10]Uh check that over there.

[00:27:13]There's a group of the uh the boys who are off work this afternoon. Yeah.

[00:27:33]where you Mr. Churnney, >> we have uh these gentlemen are out from Boston. Yeah. and they're here filming a uh a report in Chicago. Basically, they're trying to understand why we don't want colored people to move into this neighborhood.

[00:27:57]>> Yeah.

[00:27:58]>> Uh how do you feel about it?

[00:28:00]>> Not sure. I don't want them here either.

[00:28:04]They are green and uh you know what they do all all the time. We don't want as long as we can hold it. So, we hold it without them. They pass that law that you have to do today people. Huh?

[00:28:18]>> It's not passed yet, >> but uh >> we're still fighting them.

[00:28:20]>> That wouldn't that wouldn't do them any any good anyway because uh if current people come, I can pay $150 for the threat. Then he wouldn't take it.

[00:28:32]>> So the law doesn't.

[00:28:33]>> So the law don't the law don't don't don't stop us. That's why people don't don't put no more frets threats for him.

[00:28:41]They could have put it. Yeah. If correct people come to they can say they can say it's it's going because he got a ticket in the window but he get $150. What they going to do? They kind of walk away.

[00:28:53]>> Mhm.

[00:28:57]>> Yeah. They go to restaurants out here.

[00:28:59]Nobody bothers it.

[00:29:00]>> Yeah. [snorts] >> As far as that but I don't believe that they should you have the right to >> No. Sure. You get the property as long as we can keep it till we keep it.

[00:29:10]>> Sell it or rent it to who you please. I have not to tell you to rent it.

[00:29:15]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:29:17]>> Well, good. Thank you very very much, gentlemen. Appreciate it.

[00:29:20]>> You're welcome.

[00:29:21]>> Totally. All right.

[00:29:23]>> I'll be back with the daily news.

[00:29:26]Thank >> let's go and take a look at the uh the adjacent neighborhood.

[00:29:41]>> All right.

[00:29:52]Well, you take them for what you do.

[00:29:57]This is what our community doesn't want to happen.

[00:30:02]>> Well, you can go almost anywhere and find rundown neighborhoods uh like this one.

[00:30:09]But why would it be necessarily true that uh a neighborhood would be run down just because negro smoked?

[00:30:17]>> This isn't true at all. Uh you take our chaplain section here which is one of the very finest residential uh areas in the city almost exclusively negro. The property is extremely wellmaintained uh beautifully kept up.

[00:30:34]Uh it's a very very desirable community to live on. My point is these are our immediate neighbors here.

[00:30:45]uh and this is why you find so much resistance uh not only in our community but in all the immediate marginal areas to this community and others such as Woodworth.

[00:30:55]>> In other words, your people feel that this is what would happen to their neighborhood.

[00:31:00]>> This is what would happen to our neighborhood.

[00:31:02]>> You feel that way too?

[00:31:04]>> I know. If you think on the northwest side of the city of Chicago that you are going to be living in an all-white community indefinitely, you're mistaken.

[00:31:14]you are eventually going to live in an either integrated or inundated community.

[00:31:20]Now, I really envy you out here in the northwest side of the city of Chicago because you are very very far removed from the real problems that exist. You don't have slums within a block or two of you.

[00:31:35]But if open occupancy bills are passed in the city of Chicago, it will directly affect you. We feel that if this bill is permitted to be enforced, it will cause a mass exodus of the people who can afford to move from Chicago into the suburbs where they think they're protected.

[00:31:55]We feel that Chicago will become a mecca for all, let's face it, negro immigrants from all over the entire country. It's very easy to get on the relief roles here. Now there are reasons for opposing open occupancy legislation on constitutional grounds. There is no one or no legislative body or no government which has the right to tell you who you should sell or rent your property to.

[00:32:28]The Supreme Court has not ruled on it and they refuse to do so. Might be nice if we had a Supreme Court of our own for a change.

[00:32:37]Well, how do you feel about the clergy of Chicago? Uh, >> well, I mean, telling us that uh it's more or less our moral obligation to accept integration and stuff. I mean, >> they all take the same moral position that social justice and equality for all people is the right thing to do. I believe in this. I support it and I'm sure you do.

[00:33:00]Uh, but anytime the Catholic Church or whatever faith they belong to tells me I'm supposed to vote for bill number so and so, I'm going to tell them just where to go.

[00:33:12]>> Why do they want to go into a white neighborhood? I mean, the city of Chicago builds them beautiful housing.

[00:33:20]>> Have you ever been in it?

[00:33:21]>> No, I haven't been before. They occupy.

[00:33:24]They are beautiful.

[00:33:26]>> It's going to come eventually. I'd say in 200 years we're all going to be of one race. One race.

[00:33:33]>> And after all, the white people are a majority, not a minority. This we know.

[00:33:38]>> I'm I mean, I wouldn't say whether I was or I I am or against or for something of this sort.

[00:33:46]>> I'm not, like I say, I'm not against any uh color that's uh they have a right to education, but as far as uh our rights, we should have right to sell wherever we want. Would you want to live next door to a negro?

[00:33:59]>> No.

[00:34:00]>> The Chicago Real Estate Board is fully backing Scayman's fight and published a leaflet called Forced Housing. The board's president is Percy E. We Wgner.

[00:34:12]>> Well, in general, how do [clears throat] you feel about any legislation aimed at the broker that has the objective of open occupancy? We think that it is illegal, that they have no no right to enact a law which has to do with the human rights and the property rights of individuals and that it's a violation of both the 13th and the 14th amendment, the Constitution and the Illinois Constitution.

[00:34:47]You purchase a a property because you desire to live in a certain place and you have therefore also the right to sell and to rent.

[00:35:00]That's a fundamental human right as well as a property right. And you take that away from a person, you are taking away from him his constitutional rights.

[00:35:12]I don't I don't ask people to my house in my home on my property that are not acceptable to me. Neither does anyone else.

[00:35:23]Many white men I wouldn't have step across my threshold.

[00:35:30]Would you do you allow everybody come in your house? That's all there is to it.

[00:35:35]Do negroes come into my house? Do do Chinese come into my house? Do I entertain them in my house? Yes.

[00:35:46]At my choosing. See, the same as they accept me in their home.

[00:35:52]Don't forget that in Chicago, the International Real Estate Federation had a convention here in June in which we had 348 members of the Real Estate Federation of all races, all creeds who join together in a convention.

[00:36:17]And next year we're going to Israel.

[00:36:20]See, the solution to a problem of this type lies in education.

[00:36:28]Education uh in both races, both in the white race and the negro race. Whether over the course of time there will be integration to the point of acceptance of all peoples by each other is something that I don't believe any man could could foretell. Uh people don't accept each other per se. You have your own friends. You have your own people that that you choose to live with. We might even say that amongst our relatives we don't get along well together. So to expect that that that by law you can make like a social change of this type is pretty far far seen and farreaching.

[00:37:20]There are 1500 row houses in Delmare village a 7-year-old housing development in Falcraftoft Pennsylvania.

[00:37:28]Homes in this Philadelphia suburb sell for $10 to $11,000.

[00:37:33]And the people of Fallraftoft call them their dream houses.

[00:37:38]Most of Fall's residents work in the technical labor field. They make between $45 and $8,500 a year. They are proud of their community. Until recently, it was all white. Then Horus Baker, his wife, and little girl moved in.

[00:38:23]Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey.

[00:38:42][cheering] We want [cheering] >> [cheering] >> I think bottles.

[00:39:45]>> It sort of just seems like a nightmare because feel as though you were only trying to move into a home in which he purchased and that you weren't trying in any way to interfere with anyone else's life or their their property, but yet you were.

[00:40:03]And >> they could have moved in 6:00 in the morning. They just got in there without anybody seeing them. But they waited till 5:00 at night. Early in the morning, they could have just snuck in there. Why did they do that? the newspapers, the TV, the radio, they gave a false conception of what happened in Delmare Village.

[00:40:35]Tonight at 7:05 on WIBG, they had a program called World in Perspective, which was called The Grace of Delmare Village.

[00:40:52]Now, the people in this village and the people of Ballcross do not feel that this is right.

[00:41:02]The newspapers, the television, and a radio have not seen our side of it.

[00:41:11]>> I think they're getting paid to move in.

[00:41:14]>> H >> I think they're getting paid to move in.

[00:41:17]>> Any color that moves into this area, I'm sure, is only coming in here for one reason. has to bust the neighborhood down, discourage the white person, stop the whites from moving into the area, and hope that it'll be converted to a a negro integrated development.

[00:41:32]>> Aside from being forced integration, it's forced legislation.

[00:41:36]>> Well, what what I can't understand is that this is supposed to be a free country and great nation and whatnot, and yet you hear them say, "Oh, I'm afraid I won't say anything. I'll lose my job."

[00:41:49]>> That's right. Hey, look, I work I work this >> I work with 400 color people and out of them 400 people I mean a lot of them felt the same way I did. They thought they had a lot of guts moving out here.

[00:41:59]>> Sure. I've heard lots of different uh color people themselves say the same thing that it wasn't right. They now what?

[00:42:08]Something's wrong somewhere.

[00:42:12]>> Free country and they're afraid everybody's afraid to open their mouths.

[00:42:15]Afraid they'll lose their jobs. Well, they're afraid of the pressure, the the NAACP, because they exert the pressure on the employer, but the uh the employer is afraid to buck them and say, "Well, I'll keep the man on." They take the easy way out. The same as the big food stores, the government, everybody else.

[00:42:29]They don't want to buck the tide, they so to speak.

[00:42:32]>> But the only thing that really scares me is if the color did move in next door.

[00:42:37]My little girl grew up with a little boy next door and he she liked him. I mean, like, yeah, I don't understand the inner marriage. That's one thing that I don't like at all and that's what I would be afraid of. But she grew up next door to him and she liked him and I know it the majority like usually don't marry the boy next door that's doesn't usually happen but if they grew up together and went to school together and I think if they were mixed I think that that would be the next thing that there would be a lot of that in a marriage. I don't I don't that I don't see that's the only thing that but as far as them as people and they're the same as me. I don't lower them in any way.

[00:43:21]>> There probably are a lot more of them that are better than me.

[00:43:24]>> That's that's the thing that bothers me in your marriage. I don't like that.

[00:43:30]Well, I can't see why that this Keller family, Negro family, moved down Delmare village where within four blocks away they built a new housing development and they're still building it. But they couldn't move down there and I can't see them moving down Delmare Village where houses are anywhere between 5 and 10 years old and trying to move in something old and yet they can move in a new house. What are they trying to prove? A lot of people in this world think that negro, I say negro, has a place in this world. He does have a place in this world. The negro wants does not want equality. He wants preference.

[00:44:26]who was a President Kennedy says in his inauguration address >> ask not what >> your country can do for you but ask what you can do for your country what have the negro race done for their country since 1960 >> I don't know but we've done a lot >> we have done an awful lot >> they're pushing too hard they're pushing the white people too hard and something's got to be done >> I don't know what but we're going to maybe have to start right here in Brawl >> the newly appointed Block captains of Delmare village meet. Their purpose to keep the people of the village informed and freeze out the bakers.

[00:45:05]No white in Fallcraftoft has spoken out in defense of the bakers. The block captains say they speak for all of Fallcraftoft's white residents.

[00:45:14]>> That's done here violently in Fallcraftoft is against the federal government. That's why our mayor had to go with the federal government. And I I think everybody in this town understands that that these people have the right to come into Farcraftoft and live like first class citizens. But to me and I think to 90% of the white people, they haven't proved themselves.

[00:45:42]Uh for instance, uh the Italian people when they came to this country, I understand they had little Italy. Uh the Germans, they had their town and they proved one thing to each other that they could live with each other.

[00:46:00]>> Unfortunately, these people came out here and gave everybody the impression that they were being pushed in by an outside organization. Although it's been denied, >> deny anything.

[00:46:11]>> I believe we brought up a point though.

[00:46:12]When you purchased your house, how many times did you look at it?

[00:46:16]>> 10 or 12 times. More than that.

[00:46:18]>> Wow.

[00:46:19]>> Every weekend. I believe the bakers I say the bakers looked at their house only once.

[00:46:26]I found out and they visited their home once.

[00:46:32]If it was such a dream house, I'm sure before the uh settlement time came around. They would have been inspecting the house more than uh >> Well, I'd have slept in >> like five or six times. At least me. I bought the house before it was even built.

[00:46:46]>> Well, I'd have slept in that house. such a dream house before they put the roof on.

[00:46:50]>> That's right.

[00:46:52]>> Well, Jack, it's another point that I'd like to bring up. Uh, for instance, when these television men, white television men, interview these colored people, I would just like once, just once for this colored man to ask this man where he lives. Where do you live? Do you live with colored people or do you have a nice home uh 3 acres of ground with a house right in the middle and you're one of these saying integrate >> and that's what that's what's burning everybody up. I mean with these row homes you're living next door to each other and I mean contact every day.

[00:47:28]>> You share a common steps. You have nothing but perhaps 6 ines of masonry between you and your neighbors. If they get a little loud, you're aware of it.

[00:47:35]There's no doubt about this. Everybody has to be more concerned with their neighbors than uh than we would otherwise.

[00:47:42]>> The whole truth in a nutshell, the 90% of the whites that uh that live in Balkro have ran away from the color people. They have I ran away from the color people. I will not deny this. My wife, when I lived in Philadelphia, I had uh my [clears throat] family would try to go to the store. My wife, for instance, would try to go to the store 8:00 at night.

[00:48:08]She couldn't make it. It was because that 80% of the colored people had moved into West Philadelphia and I had to run. I have to protect my family. I can't I It's no sense. I I tried. I had a fella living next door to me, an ace. This man was better than any white man that I know. He was an ace.

[00:48:33]And he told me, I hate to use this word [ __ ] but he told me the [ __ ] RiffR is moving in, Eric, and I'm going to move out. I have to move out of this town myself. And for instance, right down here, we have a a beautiful colored set. Beautiful. These people come to our stores. We I work with color people.

[00:48:57]They're wonderful. I think they're I think they're great. I mean, the people working for me, but I can't see them living on my doorstep because they have proved nothing to me. Let's take the Baker family for example. He moved into our area on the 29th day of August. This man, it was advertised on WIP in Philadelphia.

[00:49:19]This man went to Florida. His wife returned to work. This is the same damn kind of responsibility, irresponsibility that we're talking about. His wife was working. He was in Florida. Where was the daughter? The daughter has been in Salersville, Pennsylvania with the mother-in-law.

[00:49:38]Now, this is the same kind of thing that we're talking about. E responsibility.

[00:49:43]My children are home. My children haven't been farmed out since I've been married. Have yours.

[00:49:50]This is a normal deal. A girl integrated a university. What she do? Did she marry a white fellow from Boston or from Massachusetts? Her father thought it was a disgrace. Why did he think it was a disgrace? This man possibly could have been paying lip service to immigration.

[00:50:09]Now, it it it's just this simple. Now, we've had two good ministers that have donated money to these people. Who else has donated money? Every taxpayer in the United States of America has donated money to these people for what?

[00:50:26]Why does the American person try to buy his conscience with a dollar?

[00:50:32]>> They just don't want to face it, Joe.

[00:50:34]The white people just don't want to face face this thing and they're just backing down on every uh on everything that uh the NAAC I don't think I don't think they don't want to face it. I think uh >> every white man would like to do his share or but they're afraid. Now this NAACP is not as National >> not that. It's a powerful organization.

[00:50:59]It's a common we've had we've had men from this village fired from their jobs because their pictures were in a paper.

[00:51:06]>> This is true.

[00:51:07]>> What what kind of rights does the white man have when this has to happen?

[00:51:12]They're all afraid to move. It's it gets back to what I said again. This is a organized minority group that's taking charge of an unorganized majority group.

[00:51:23]They vote in a block, which is what we have to do. We have to vote in a block.

[00:51:28]We always fight when our backs are against the wall. This is this is the same with with a lot of animals, which we're all animals.

[00:51:37]>> But jokes, >> but some of us are cannibals, but we got ourselves short.

[00:51:41]>> But uh we can't fight, Joe, because uh this is one country. I mean, uh this is what the Communist Party wants.

[00:51:50]>> They're going to destroy us within. And I'll tell you, Joe, we we can't say fight. I mean, we've got to iron this thing out without fighting. I'm talking with our politician. Yeah. Fighting our legislation because uh this is one country, Joe.

[00:52:03]>> I agree.

[00:52:04]>> We've got to get this thing ironed out amongst ourselves. We need no other country to iron this thing out.

[00:52:09]>> This has got this has got to be ironed out by our politicians and straight through. I mean, level no backbiting and level this thing out to the people. Tell this NAACP what's going to happen. Come out truthfully and tell what 90% of the white people want them to know, Joe, because we smile at a colored man at work. We smile. We laugh. But look what happened here in Farcra. The other side of the face was turned. His his face was slapped. It could have been the same man that you work with or I work with. It could have been true. I mean, we have to level this thing and we don't want to live with him. That's all there is to it.

[00:52:52]11. Did he say Hatton Avenue or Hattonfield Avenue?

[00:52:56]>> The Pennsylvania State Police still guarding the Baker's house on Heather Road.

[00:53:06]>> This is the type of a feeling that I felt that in the home that we would purchase in whatever neighborhood we would earn the neighborhood's respect.

[00:53:14]This is what I do. And the sort of my philosophy in life is in earning people's respect and being just treated as an individual and not trying to be stereotyped with any type of a a group or race or creed and well let's say I feel as though as far as pigmentation that's about any difference that we majorly have. I don't feel as though let's say uh with with the education that you that you receive that there should be any other differences. And every summer let's say the Caucasians they they try to go and get themselves panned and try to match you up with that. So really I don't feel as though there should be that many differences or such a a cruel type of a feeling.

[00:54:04]>> How do you think this is uh going to affect your child?

[00:54:08]uh she wasn't here during uh the [clears throat] first the first week that we were here and I'd say as far as uh the type of a feeling that's going on I don't feel as though directly she would be aware maybe in a in a year or so she would but right now I don't feel unless someone actually told her she she knows no prejudice at all and she'll say hello to anyone >> has she said hello to any of the and fall off.

[00:54:39]>> I'm sure she had. She went out outside.

[00:54:43]I guess it was the same day that she came here and uh the neighbors next door had put up a row iron rail at the top, but they put it off just enough off of center that it meant sort of to do that we weren't supposed to touch it. And so, of course, she not knowing that this, she went down and touched it. And some neighbor hollered, "Get that baby's hand off the rail."

[00:55:05]So with that, I just told her not to touch it, but I'm sure she'll touch it again until we put up a railing beside it so that she doesn't come in contact with that one.

[00:55:15]But this is what I mean. Children actually don't know this type of a of a thing. It has to be instilled upon them.

[00:55:44]in New York, Chicago, St. Louis, and in suburban Fallra, Pennsylvania. We've seen how some white Americans in the north responded when confronted with Negroameans demanding freedom. Now, we've seen white opposition increase as the Negro came closer and closer until in Fallcraftoft, Pennsylvania, the strongest fears, integrated housing and intermarriage, erupted into violence when a lack of understanding and emotion take over as they did in Fallcraftoft.

[00:56:15]How are these real feelings to be dealt with? Perhaps the rioting on that Falcraftoft street could have been avoided if some organization apart from the civil rights groups had helped the people of Falcraftoft overcome their fears. The major civil rights groups have sought mainly to disegregate to open doors to Negroes that once were open only to whites. As those doors began to open, the hope was that new contacts between Negroes and whites would mean improved white attitudes. And in many cases, new contacts have helped the white man look at the negro man in a new and kinder light. There are places where real integration is proceeding peacefully. But as long as there are whites who respond with bitterness and even violence, the white man's emotions cannot be ignored. Following a summer of growing white resistance in the north, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. recognized this. Talking about the northern white, he said recently, "We can never have meaningful integration until these prejudices are recognized and discarded."

[00:57:23]Obviously, a major effort by both races is needed to see that these prejudices are recognized and discarded. The American Negro is now making an unprecedented effort to gain his freedom and the respect of whites. The American white is going to have to make an equal effort to prepare for the day when he is confronted.

[00:57:44]Most white Americans have not yet been confronted. Confronted by the negro who will not go away. The schools, churches, the government agencies, the communications media all have a responsibility to help the white man accept his new relationship with his fellow negro citizen.

[00:58:04]But ultimately, whether or not the white man receives the help he needs, it will be the truly personal decisions that count.

[00:58:14]And so, every white American now needs to ask himself, "What will my answer be when I am confronted?

[00:58:50]This is NE National Educational Television.