Instantly Get Better at Selling by Watching This Video

Added: 2026-05-11

[00:00:01][music] >> You know, most of us didn't start our business because we wanted to be sales people. We weren't dreaming of cold calls or pitch decks. We started our business because we had something real to offer. [music] We wanted to serve people. Here's the reality though, if you don't learn how to sell, your business will die.

[00:00:23]That's just how it works. But it's amazing how many small business owners say, "I'm just not good at sales."

[00:00:30]>> [music] >> Or, "I don't want to be pushy." They think sales means being slimy, [music] manipulative, or talking somebody into something they don't need. And if that's your definition of selling, no wonder you don't want to do it. So, in this episode, EntreLeadership's head coach John Falcons is sitting down with senior vice president Chris Campbell to define what selling actually is and what it isn't. Because if your definition of selling is broken, >> [music] >> your business will suffer. Let's get to it.

[00:00:59]Chris, thanks for being with us today.

[00:01:01]Exciting.

[00:01:02]>> You you've been here at Ramsey for how long? Uh heading into 18 years.

[00:01:06]>> 18 years. So, like basically forever.

[00:01:09]Yeah. The and I think the whole time you've been in sales, haven't you? In in one way or the other? Absolutely. I feel like we hear a lot of misconceptions about sales. So, I'd love you to talk about what sales is and what it isn't.

[00:01:24]You know, I just think people get confused about that and there's a there's a lot of fear around it. So, you've learned a lot over your whole career. Talk a little bit about what sales isn't. Yeah, well, sales is not getting someone to do something they don't want to do.

[00:01:39]That's not what sales is and I believe that's what most people think that it is. You know, you watch a movie like Boiler Room, you watch Wolf on Wall Street, or maybe you have a bad interaction with somebody at a store or something like that or buying a car and you're like, "I never want to be like that." I agree.

[00:01:55]You don't want to be like that, right?

[00:01:57]Sales is more like, in my opinion, like being a doctor. They They said it this way that like a good doctor will always kind of figure out what's going on with you and then prescribe something and then you get better, right? You need that.

[00:02:10]But it's called malpractice if you do it the opposite way.

[00:02:12]If I give you a diagnosis if I give you a prescription without a diagnosis, that's called malpractice, right?

[00:02:18][clears throat] And so, when I'm thinking about doing it the right way, I've got to ask really good questions.

[00:02:24]I've got to really know what's going on there with that person and then see, hey, is what I have is that's going to help is that going to help them hit their goals?

[00:02:32]Even if what they're telling me the reason why they can't do it is bubbling up, I know that that's really where the money is made and sales are really come into play is during the objections. Cuz that's what's held them in that spot they've been stuck in forever. So again, it's not getting someone to do something they don't want to do. It's helping someone get to a spot to say, "Oh, wow, I need this and I see how this is going to serve me in getting unstuck in life."

[00:02:55]>> Okay, but I just heard you say it's not it's not getting somebody to do something they don't want to do. But then you use this word objections. Talk a little bit about the difference between those two things.

[00:03:06]>> Yeah. Yeah, an objection generally is the reason again, I I view it this way, objections are the reasons why someone stays stuck in life generally, right?

[00:03:14]Well, I I would go do that weight loss thing and work with the guy one-on-one.

[00:03:18]That's just too expensive. And then they'll go spend money on a variety of other things. So, is it really about it being expensive or is it about the challenge the challenge and the obstacle that's going on internally with them, right? There's a great book by Albert Ellis called The Distortions of Reality and he was one of the creators of cognitive behavioral therapy. And you know, and you and I both deal with this.

[00:03:40]Everybody you know deals with it.

[00:03:41]Listen, we all blame circumstances, other people, or we think, "Hey, we're not the type of person that deserves that or or should get that." And that's the objection that someone's dealing with, right? I can't because Biden's in office cuz Trump's in office or whatever you want to pick, right? Whatever your party you want to be in, that's the reason why I can't. Or I can't because the interest rates. Circumstantial.

[00:04:03]Other people. Hey man, my mom didn't give me this. My dad didn't give me this. My teacher didn't teach me this.

[00:04:09]Well, that person I'm giving a lot of power to for me staying stuck in my life. Or hey, you don't know my background and people like me, we don't get to do things like that.

[00:04:18]It's like, "Wow, there's a lot going on there, right?" Well, guess what? If it works in the counseling world for somebody to see like why they get stuck and why they stay there and what's all about the past, it's never really about the future.

[00:04:31]Well, when you're in sales, you get to kind of like deal with that with somebody. And I'm not saying you replace Dr. Frankenstein, okay? I'm not telling you to become a counselor. But what I am trying to say is like, "Hey, there's a reason why that person, especially if you ask the question, how long you've been dealing with this?"

[00:04:45]And they say for any any amount of time other than a few days, that's costing them something and you're able to kind of lean into that. That's an objection.

[00:04:54]And that's why I say, "Hey, this is something that's been holding someone back in their life." And if you can help them overcome that, that's not getting someone to do something they don't want to do. That's helping them get something that they're never going to get if you don't engage them the right way.

[00:05:05]And so, they will stay where they are and you have to be not okay with that.

[00:05:10]Yeah. And again, if they want to say no, if they say, "Hey, look, I don't want that." I actually I'm really good with that.

[00:05:17]A no is a fantastic place for someone to get to when you're in a sales conversation.

[00:05:23]You're like, "Chris, wow, you probably don't you probably don't make a lot of money >> [laughter] >> because you're good with a no."

[00:05:28]Actually, a no is clear.

[00:05:31]You see, when they came to you, you know where they were? They were in a maybe state. I may do this, I may not do this, or whatever. When they get clarity on a no, what that allows them to do is build desire.

[00:05:41]Cuz the next morning they get to wake up, especially if you engage them the right way, they look in the mirror and they go, "I have a way out of this and I just said no to it."

[00:05:51]The person in the mirror is the reason why I'm stuck.

[00:05:54]Now, it may take 2 days, it may take 6 weeks, but eventually they'll go, "I need to do something about it. I now have the power to do something about it. That person challenged me in a way that no one else ever talked to me."

[00:06:06]But maybe is the worst.

[00:06:09]Heck maybe. Oh my gosh, you and I both Who wants to be in a maybe zone, right?

[00:06:14]>> Nobody. Yes or no, right? It's even biblical. Let your yes be yes and your no be no. I never read anything on maybes in there, right? And so, it's just a good way to think if you're a sales person. So, that's a powerful mindset if you're the sales person and I've been here as long as you have, but I've been here long enough. I remember when you weren't leading such big teams. You were you were more uh that person where your mindset. But let's shift gears a little bit uh and talk about leading sales team because like I said, our our viewers are our business owners, right? So, like you, maybe they started having to sell the thing, the service, or the product themselves, but then they transcend that. They need to get help doing sales across the business. Talk a little bit about what you've learned about how to build a sales team. Maybe even starting with how do you make your first sales hire? What are you looking for? What's important about that?

[00:07:09]Absolutely. You know, I want somebody with grit. Life is hard, sales is hard.

[00:07:14]It's not an easy profession, but it's one of the highest paid professions on the planet.

[00:07:18]>> What Why is that? Well, because you solve big problems. Your income will always be in direct proportion to the problems you solve.

[00:07:26]And the and the the ability that it takes to replace you. Right? Now, I'm not going to talk down to janitor or anything like that, but if you're sweeping a floor, I can usually find a person to learn to sweep a floor in a couple hours.

[00:07:37]But if I'm a brain surgeon, you probably don't want that brain surgeon working on you. And it takes a long time to go to school. It takes a lot of skill set. And by the way, the problem is huge because the consequences are large.

[00:07:49]And when you're dealing with somebody in sales, especially if you're selling something that's very expensive, there's usually a set of problems that it solves that it just takes a lot of energy and time. There's been a lot of thought process into it. And by the way, the rewards on the other side of that for both parties, the sales person and the customer should be massive.

[00:08:08]And you know what? That takes a lot to replace. You can't you can't teach that in a couple hours.

[00:08:12]And so, I want to see that person that's gritty. I want to see that person that's always willing to learn. You know, I've heard Dave use this statement that, "Hey, personal development is just that, it's personal." I want somebody who is personally developing all the time.

[00:08:24]If I sit down with somebody who I'm wanting to come into a sales team, I want to learn something from them in that meeting. In that interview.

[00:08:32]I should be learning from them. If they come in and go, "Well, what would I do?"

[00:08:35]And like, "I don't know how I do it."

[00:08:37]I'm like, "Nope."

[00:08:38]I want to bring somebody on that's going to say, "Hey, I've been looking at your product and I would think these are probably your top objections. Does that sound about right? Well, it's actually this." Cool. "I've also thought about that when here's how I would probably overcome that." And they actually start telling you how they're going to come in and start impacting things like that.

[00:08:56]Now, is it going to be perfect? No. But that person compared to, "What's your website again? So, what do you guys sell?" You know, you're like, "Get out."

[00:09:05]Right? And listen, we've all maybe in desperation hired that guy thought, "You know what? I'll I'll build them, I won't buy them." You know, okay. I know what I have. Yeah. Trust me, I was probably that person here.

[00:09:17]>> [laughter] >> I think I'll get it figured out, you know.

[00:09:20]But it becomes one of those things.

[00:09:21]You're looking for grit, personal development. You're looking for somebody who is interested in your product, interested in your customers, interested in the problems of your customers.

[00:09:30]Uh someone who knows how to listen, someone who knows how to ask questions, someone who knows how to lean in.

[00:09:35]They're not afraid.

[00:09:37]They're not afraid.

[00:09:38]>> Yeah. I can't say enough about that.

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[00:11:01]Let's get back to the episode.

[00:11:05]Is it not being afraid or is it having the courage to do something when you're afraid? Oh, I mean that that's what courage is. Right?

[00:11:11]>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean that that's ultimately what it is. What I say when I say not be afraid, what I'm saying is is they're not afraid of someone saying no.

[00:11:19]Because we just talked about that like like well, no is not a bad thing. They they understand the value of that. Uh they're not afraid to ask the hard questions.

[00:11:27]Most people as I said earlier, they stay stuck in life because somebody never stops and just steps into it and says, "Hey, you want to do something about that?" And they don't need to go sit in a corner and suck their thumb because somebody said, "Well, I that that's mean." It's like, "No, it's not. It's mean to leave you here."

[00:11:42]They just don't think like that. And yeah, you're calling it out perfectly.

[00:11:46]It is courage. That's I mean that's that's really what it is. You're it it there's fear and you still step in anyway, right?

[00:11:51]>> Still do it. Yeah, it's part of our our core values here. Fear not. That didn't mean we're not fearful. It means we have courage in the face of it. Right. So, okay.

[00:11:58]That's a super good map for what you're looking for when you're making that hire. Let let's take a next step. Now, let's say you got a handful of these people. I got to imagine it's a little bit different to lead a sales team, a whole team of sales people, than it is doing it yourself or maybe even just, you know, having one person help you.

[00:12:17]Yep. What lessons have you learned along the way about how to lead an entire team of these these people that aren't afraid to hear no, aren't afraid to push, aren't afraid to ask for what they want? I mean, I'm kind of imagining that from a leadership perspective, that can that can probably be like herding cats. I mean that that's a I can be a tough role. Hot. Yeah, cats on a hot tin roof, for sure. They're everywhere. They're going nuts.

[00:12:43]Here's the thing, you can't leave them alone.

[00:12:47]Just like any role you have on your team, a good leader never abdicates.

[00:12:52]They've got to lean in. They can't assume. They can't assume that this person's got it. They can't assume that Johnny's got it, that Tina's got it, that Bob's got it. They need to go in and lean in. As I've taken over sales teams over time, one of the things that I implement is a thing called like, "Hey, the top five list." Top five list is like, "Hey, what what are the three to five things that every day you need to come in that I believe will make you the most successful and at the end of that, I'm going to ask you, is there anything blocking you from hitting your goal?"

[00:13:17]And I'm doing that on a daily basis.

[00:13:20]Why would I do that on a daily basis, John? Because if I meet with them one-on-one every week, I'm going to meet with them four times in a month. 48 times in a year. If I do that every day, I'll meet with them 22 times in a month.

[00:13:34]You think I'll pick up on somebody sliding off, going in a different direction?

[00:13:37]>> If it was me, I'd need that frequency, right? Cuz I'd I'd forget. I'd I'd slip, you know? Focus slips. Yeah, and I'm not married to the things on the list. I'm married to the discipline. Jocko says discipline equals freedom. Well, I want them to be free, but they got to make sure they have the right disciplines inside of that. And so, having something like that inside of the team is paramount. Uh a few days ago, I had lunch with a one of our sales guys and I said, "Hey, he was starting to do the top five, okay?"

[00:14:05]And I said, "Does it does it feel like micromanagement? Don't don't lie." And he goes, "Kind of." And I said, "Cool. I said, let me ask you something. What's the biggest thing blocking you from winning right now in your role in sales?" He said, "Man, objections. Man, I don't know what to do with objections." I said, "Let me ask you something. If you got up every morning 4:00 or 5:00 in the morning and you wrote I did the top five or six objections that you deal with on a daily basis, you spend an hour coming up with ways to overcome those every day, where would you be in 90 days?"

[00:14:33]He goes, "Oh, I'd be a beast in my role."

[00:14:36]And I kind of sat back in my chair and kind of looked at him and he goes, "It's me."

[00:14:42]And I'm like, "Yeah, it's you, baby."

[00:14:44]>> It's all is you.

[00:14:45]It's circumstances, other people. Hey, it's this sales process. It's this piece of paper the boss put in front of me.

[00:14:50]It's micromanagement. No, no, no, no.

[00:14:53]You will be a beast. You called it out.

[00:14:55]So, now you have a choice. You ain't got a reason or an excuse.

[00:14:59]So, what are you going to do about it?

[00:15:00]That's the top five. So, when I'm leading a team, I'm trying to make sure number one, do they know what success look like? Do they do are they having the engagements on a daily basis? You will not be able to walk away, go on a trip for 3 weeks, come back and have a really high-functioning sales team. It ain't going to work.

[00:15:15]That ain't the way life works. You will have chaos on your hands and you may never get the you may never get it restored. It may just be that way forever and you may have to start removing people because they get a mindset set in. So, that's how I believe you have to kind of look at a team. Does that sound like a lot of work? Yeah.

[00:15:32]But I promise you the rewards on the other side of that mountain are really good, too. Absolutely.

[00:15:36]So, I know even in the roles that you've had, I know we joked a little bit about, you know, the the different coaching teams and we're focused on on business leaders, but I know that you have worked with a ton of business leaders also and that's that's who's watching. So, let me ask you, what what one thing would you tell a business owner about sales? What would you want them to know? Yeah, well, number one, nothing in your business is going to move. Nothing happens unless a sale happens.

[00:16:03]Man, we got the best operations. That's awesome. How you get money to pay for those guys and gals?

[00:16:08]Man, we've got the best marketing.

[00:16:10]Really? How's that playing out? Uh uh Ogilvy, one of the best designers, said, "You know what the best sell what the best creative is? It's the one that sells." Even he thought, yep, going to need that to happen. If you look at sales as something that's just like, man, we just got to have it versus, "Hey, this is the heartbeat of our organization. This is what we do." Now, I don't want you selling something you don't believe serves somebody that doesn't solve a problem. But when you believe it serves someone, solves a problem, unlocks people in their lives, how much do you have to not like somebody to not say, "Hey, you you should do this, John."

[00:16:43]You should do this. I'm I'm going to tell you why.

[00:16:46]Or you've told me your problem, I'm going to say how it's going to work like that. And so, as a leader, embrace sales.

[00:16:54]It's difficult. Sure, so was walking the first time when you started that, right?

[00:16:59]So was dating when you first started that. If you're not willing to look foolish on that, it's the repetitions.

[00:17:04]You know, I I've got a 10-year-old right now, man, he plays baseball and he don't practice very much and there's another kid on the team practice all the time. I said, "You know why he's better than you? Cuz he hits all the time."

[00:17:13]You if you're not good at it right now, good.

[00:17:16]Reps. Do something about it.

[00:17:18]And if you're doing okay, start reading, doing things like this, uh going to conference. Do whatever you got to do to get better at it. You need to be world-class at it. Your team should see you try to get on the phone as much as they're trying to get on the phone to go, "Hey, watch, I'll do it. Watch, I'll do it. Listen to this." And then you're listening to them.

[00:17:34]Man, if you can embrace that, you're going to see the dividends from it.

[00:17:39]And it's going to be hard.

[00:17:40]Good. You know what [laughter] I'm saying? I love it. I love it. Thanks, Chris.

[00:17:45]>> Yeah, man. Absolutely.

[00:17:47]Done right, selling is about serving [music] people with confidence. It's solving real problems. [music] It's helping people get what they need. And if you believe in what you offer, and I hope you do, then you've got to stop seeing sales as a necessary evil.

[00:18:06]Because once you get this right, your business will grow, your team will get stronger, and your impact will multiply.

[00:18:12]>> [music] >> Now, if you know you need help with your mindset or your team's mindset around sales, we're offering a free 30-minute consultation with one of our EntreLeadership coaches. This is your chance to get one-on-one guidance, talk through what's keeping you stuck, and walk away with clear next steps. Just click the link in the description to schedule a call. And if you've enjoyed today's episode, be sure to like, [music] share, and subscribe for more great leadership content. I'm your host, Dave Ramsey, and this is EntreLeadership.