4TH PFM ANNUAL CONFERENCE

Added: 2026-05-07

[00:01:17]Heat. Heat.

[00:03:35]Good morning, Uganda.

[00:03:39]Good morning, CPS.

[00:03:46]Welcome back from last night's match that saw us, the Ghasers, make it to the finals, isn't it?

[00:03:59]The elephant is in the room today and it is going to jubilate.

[00:04:05]Okay, it is time now for us to commence on day one of our fourth public finance management conference which we always hold on an annual basis.

[00:04:22]So the theme for this conference is strengthening public finance management for sustainable national development.

[00:04:32]So, it's going to be three days as usual and expect to hear from the best presenters around.

[00:04:42]Expect to have serious discussions around the theme. Expect to network and expect to have fun. So I promise you a threeday fulfilling with what we promise to give you.

[00:05:02]My name is uh CPA Rahima Nachbe also called Na Longo or twin mother and I'm going to be the director of ceremonies for the day. To kickstart the day, we are going to start with a word of prayer from our very own Nasuna Caroline.

[00:05:28]So, let's come our pastor Nasuna Caroline as uh Miss Lydia to see the CPAU prepares to come and give us Father, we thank you for you have given us journey masses to get to this place.

[00:06:28]Want to thank you for the people who are still traveling. We believe that they'll reach here safely.

[00:06:35]Father, we want to pray that you may bless us as we start this conference. We pray that all the deliberations that are going to take place may be for the good of the institute, for the good of the country and for the good of each one of us. Father, we pray that you may give us a successful conference day until Friday in Jesus's name we've prayed.

[00:07:08]Caroline um CPA Lydia to Sime please come and uh take the participants through what they need to do when it comes to maneuvering the gadgets. Thank you.

[00:07:33]Uh thank you MC. A very good morning our dear participants.

[00:07:40]I regarding digital we have made some uh innovations and uh as you can see you've not received uh the physical copies of the magazine.

[00:07:54]This followed our launch of the uh sustainability road map last year and uh we want to walk the talk regarding uh ESG and preserving our environment and so it's a a very deliberate move that we took to see that we uh reduce on the paper one in the room and please use that to keep track of the program, the presenters and all other details. Uh so to access this magazine, you're going to use the QR code at the back of your card uh for those that are here physically, but for those online, this has been shared to your respective emails. And then um uh still for those in the room, you can uh look around the room, we do have uh different banners that reflect the uh QR code. But as we transition, you will also see that the banners will fade away with time being a new introduction.

[00:09:09]And so we've also uh put together the event slido for you to interact with us uh and the presenters and on the different topics. Please use the same QR code to access this and even for the event photographs for you to access the photographs for the whole event you'll use the same QR code.

[00:09:35]So when you open it, it will give you different uh components. There will be one on the event magazine uh the photographs for you to access and then uh slide for you to interact with us uh by giving comments, questions uh that will be addressed at the different sessions. And then um for digital engagement uh we have um uh brought back the tweet beam as you can see on our screen on my right. Uh we're going to be projecting uh engagement on our event hashtag which is uh for ICP AU PFM conf.

[00:10:18]That is our event hashtag. I'm going to just uh uh repeat it. Uh it's hashtag um for ICP AU PFM conference the short form of conference C O N F. So please follow that uh hashtag and be part of the conversation. We don't want the conversation to remain in the room.

[00:10:45]We believe public finance management is something that cuts across uh through the different sectors of the economy.

[00:10:53]So, and we believe that you are the right um people to talk about issues that shape public finance management.

[00:11:02]So, we need your expertise as you engage with our uh the discussion online. And uh we're going to have some recognition for uh members participants that have the most tweets and retweets or uh mentions of our hashtag. So please do engage with uh our hashtag.

[00:11:24]Uh relatedly we do have uh an arrangement um uh for you to get very nice profiled pictures with our official event photographer who is in the room, Brian.

[00:11:37]uh his hand is up. So for those that feel like you need to update your profile picture to to suit the kind of status that you're in, please utilize this opportunity uh so that you update your uh profile pictures. But this will also help us as we are looking out for speakers for different events because we do struggle uh to get a very good pictures when we reach out to some of you to either come in as uh facilitators for trainings and as speakers on different topics. So this is a an opportunity that you should utilize.

[00:12:14]It's really u voluntary. For those interested there's a very small fee.

[00:12:20]Please reach out to Brian uh to get for you very nice uh uh pictures.

[00:12:26]As I conclude, I'll just um re-echo that we are having tweet beam. We're going to be projecting all the tweets, all the comments that come through our hashtag and we're going to be tracking uh members that will give us the most engagement uh for some prizes during our entertainment session. I hand over to the event MC. Thank you so much.

[00:13:05]Okay.

[00:13:07]Thank you very much uh manager business development to see me.

[00:13:12]Um just about now we are going to have uh meanwhile we've shared the program with you digitally.

[00:13:23]Okay we are going green and so you may realize you don't have the magazines the usual magazines in your bags but these have been shared digitally on your emails. So the program is available for us there.

[00:13:42]Um on next on the program is going to be uh CPA Susan Tega Chammana manager standards uh who is getting ready to give us a brief from the secretariat.

[00:13:59]The secretariat is the is the team that basically puts together each and everything that we do for the accountancy profession.

[00:14:12]So these people are are so pivotal to the success of our profession.

[00:14:20]Let us appreciate them by giving them a round applause. Secretariat, we appreciate the work that you do for us.

[00:14:30]We appreciate the time you put in especially when it comes to events. We only come in for us at the events management committee to guide. But the decision the operational work is done by this team. So from the standards we have CPA Susan Tega Chammana to give us some of the highlights of what is happening.

[00:14:53]Let's welcome Susan to the podium.

[00:15:00]Thank you Rayma.

[00:15:03]Good morning members and welcome to PFM conference.

[00:15:11]As indicated I'm Suzanne Kman, manager assurance and regulation and I'm going to take us briefly the directorate does and um a brief updates.

[00:15:32]So our my focus the directorate rejected from framework that's applicable in the country and uh then a bit of the sustainability road up.

[00:16:08]So to begin with, I'll take us through how the directorate is constituted.

[00:16:17]Uh our directorate is headed by director standard sign regulation and then we have three units three departments.

[00:16:28]We have the standards and technical support department which is headed by a manager.

[00:16:41]And then we have the quality assurance and regulation department that are ahead. And then we have the investigations and discipline. But we have a shared admin staff.

[00:17:00]So we in terms of numbers we are gender sensitive. Nine ladies and five men.

[00:17:14]Yes. You know it's rare in in most places it's the number of men is higher but in our case the ladies are more than men. So we have senior officers in each department uh and officers for their different roles as outlined in that.

[00:17:43]So the directorate supports the council and its committees and we have a number of of committees that we support. We support the quality assurance board. We support the disciplinary committee, the disciplinary appeals committee, uh the elections committee, the financial reporting awards committee, that's firewards, and uh several working groups including the public sector accounting working group, uh financial sector working group, the IFRS for the non nonprofit organizations working group the Uganda integrated reporting committee.

[00:18:35]Uh we also support the professional standards committee. This committee has several panels uh including the public practice panel, public sector panel, the accountants in industry and business panel and then the taxation and economic policy panel. uh but this mandate we get from the accountants act cap 294 uh if you read from sections F to K that's where this directorate gets the mandate uh what are our key roles our key roles in the directorate as outlined and uh different departments for the quality assurance department we handle the inspection s and licensing CPID compliance.

[00:19:31]Uh actually CPD compliance maybe I can add some more because this is the season that we've been sending out our CPD reports to the members that we have reviewed. We normally do this uh using a risk based approach where we sample our members and we review your compliance with the CPDS.

[00:19:52]uh the response we've been getting this time is that a majority of the members uh believe that once they come sit here and attend a conference or a workshop or a training uh automatically they have met their obligation but if you read the regulations accountance regulations 2024 you will notice that you have an obligation to file your return annually. So that's why we have gotten uh a lot of feedback from members when you give them the report that you did notified they said but I've been attending can I come to your place and I uh for you to know that I have been attending but really if you read the law you'll understand that it's your obligation to maintain a record of your CPD and also file it annually. So uh the department also handles the anti-money laundering inspections uh uh under the AMLA that's the anti-moneyaundering act ISPU is the supervisor for the accountants uh and so we have a role to supervise the accountants compliance with the AML laws we we are also in charge of the the qu assurance department is also in charge of the practice regulation. So we handle the licensing the review of the quality. So it's all in that uh department. Uh the other department is the standards and technical support department which is headed by a manager and uh the role is uh to support in the development and implementation of standards.

[00:21:47]The they also support the public sector and PFM reforms taxation and economic policy.

[00:21:57]Okay. Also the institute research lies in this department and also commentaries on the government bills and regulations is uh conducted in this and also practice support uh because we have to to to maintain that independence for us we shall come and do the review and we give feedback. So if any practitioner or any firm requires support, it is the standards and technical support department that provides that support. Then we have the investigations and discipline who look at uh illegal practices. If there are issues where people practicing illegally without being licensed then the this department also handles the investigation and discipline of members.

[00:22:59]this we have a role under the statements of membership obligations that's the SMOS and um our directorate actually plays a a role in all the SMOS the seven SMOS I believe we all all know this uh with the best line the best of the SMOS being the education So our role here is that we give commentaries on the NLOS on the SM O2 but we also look at each of those SMOS to ensure that our members are complying with the requirements of all the SMOs.

[00:23:47]Now for the SM O1 this is major a major SMO that is undertaken by the qualit assurance department to see that uh our practitioners are complying with the required standards.

[00:24:13]So when we move on to okay the SMOS these SMOS we have a direct obligation under all the SMOS other than one SM the IPSAS which is a where we have a shared role with the accountant general's office.

[00:24:37]So uh SMOS a power either has a direct responsibility shared role or no responsibility but in our case we have we don't have any SMO where we have no responsibility I just wanted to bring this up and now the regulatory framework uh we needed to highlight a bit of regulatory framework for members to know the standards that are applicable in Uganda and when they were adopted. So we have the FRS's uh we indicate the issuing body the IASB and they are of that the institute adopted it which is this one is for 98 and the mode of publication details are given in this um table and now the last three standards is sustainability disclosure standards theas for the less complex entities ities and global internal audit standards publication is yet to be made but uh I'm sure it will be made soon to indicate that we have adopted this.

[00:25:59]So uh the major highlights of what we have done the different departments in the directorate and uh things we are planning to do is on this slide. So currently we do the quality reviews in cycles and we have so far completed five cycles and currently we are doing the sixth cycle which we began in um November 2024.

[00:26:37]So we are handling the CPD compliance.

[00:26:39]This is a this I've talked about extensively.

[00:26:43]Uh but we also do thematic reviews.

[00:26:47]We select specific standards to see how they're implement how the our members are practitioners are implementing uh the requirements. Uh currently we are conducting the ethmatic review on IFS for IFRS 15 that's revenue contracts with customers.

[00:27:09]So we are undertaking this and we shall have a report which we shall table at the practice professional science committee to see the level of uptake of this standard by our members.

[00:27:25]We're also doing the we are emphasizing the implementation of the root cause analysis as required by the ISQM. Uh because this is important in order for us to see that our farms improve quality. So it's an area of emphasis during this cycle.

[00:27:50]uh but also we are undertaking a mentorship program for all farms that do not perform well. So uh there's a mentorship program going on to all this is to for us to see that we we actually improve the quality of our practices and then we have uh sanction guidelines. Uh this is this was approved by the quality assurance board and uh we are starting to we have started to implement it uh in which where practices have performed badly they will go through sanctioning procedures. It is a a a big guideline which is we are going to expose soon on the website for members to know the procedure how they will be handled the administrative penalties and all that and how they can move on to the dispinary committee uh when quality is not uh good. So under the standards and uh technical support department we have uh the awareness on the sustainability road map. Um, ICPU announced the the adoption of this sustainability reporting standards in 2024 and uh the road map was launched uh last year 2025 in September and currently we are in the voluntary period.

[00:29:39]Uh we encourage all entities to start checking out their tools to see how their staff are prepared, train their resources and uh such that by the time the mandatory period is on uh all entities are ready. Uh the first phase of the mandatory period for some entities will be 2028 and we believe if you if you you you take and do some in-house reviews during this period you'll be able to to comply come the mandatory debts. Also the sustain the climate rated sustainability reporting standards for the public sector was launched this year 2026 and as ICPU we are reviewing the standard in order for us to come up with guidance and direction for our public entity entities.

[00:30:44]Uh there's also the sustainability voting standard for asurances and this will be for the our practitioners. It is also up. It was released this year and we are still uh reviewing the standard in order for us to guide the practicing accountants uh to comply with this standard. Then we have the international nonprofit accounting standards. Uh the impact the road map was uh the standard was uh released uh last year. So we are also still developing a road map uh to guide the entities.

[00:31:36]uh but also uh we had revised the definition of our public interest entities in Uganda but we got some feedback and so we have reexposed this for members comments and uh deadline for you to give us your comments will be 31st of this month. So please read through and give us comments such that we we work on this uh definition to meet uh requirements of all the our stakeholders.

[00:32:14]So for other for other updates we encourage you to read our monthly in news. We we we we publish monthly in news and I would love to encourage you to read and uh pick uh any updates in standards and any other issues around institute.

[00:32:39]Um also for accountants in um business and industry uh you need to look out for updates in uh regarding the cryptocurrencies AI prompting for you to be ready such that uh these do not um affect you much. So when I move on to the investigation and disciplinary invest in investigation and discipline department or section that's in our directory this uh is following up on court cases. There are a number of court cases that ISP has. So we follow up on those court cases but we are also finalizing the concluded disciplinary matters because disciplinary committee is actually so active currently uh because there's a lot of litigation going on with our members or we plan dispunary committee meetings normally every month there are issues to handle But also we do assemble and clear ring of the closed files and also we are planning to finalize the case management platform.

[00:34:08]We're trying to there's a platform we have been working on uh together with our IT as department and we are trying to finalize that such that we ease the way complaints and um come in and uh cases are handled but uh this department also supports the elections committee.

[00:34:33]So in general uh if I'm talk but we have representations on uh different accountancy bodies that's the cross border representations.

[00:34:44]Uh currently we have CPA Josephine OIA our past president chairing the professional accountants in business and industry advisory group of IFAC. Uh we also have CPA Mike Tujetwina uh representing uh us on the PA account quality advisory group.

[00:35:11]Uh there's also CPA Edward Suala who represents us on the ethics audit and assurance technical advisory group of buffer.

[00:35:25]Uh those are the highlights I thought I would give. Uh thank you so much.

[00:35:45]>> Okay. Thank you very much CPA Susan Tega. Right about now, we are supposed to have welcome remarks from uh our own CEO who is currently not available because he had to go on official duty representing us at the funeral or the burial of the husband of one of our council members. We commenurate with CPA Christine Mum for the loss of her husband.

[00:36:22]Okay. So in place of CPA Derek Incaja is uh the director standards CPA Charles Limba who is going to welcome us to the fourth public finance management conference. A round of applause for CPA Charles for timber.

[00:36:45]You're most welcome.

[00:36:55]Uh thank you so much director of ceremonies.

[00:36:59]A very good morning ladies and gentlemen.

[00:37:03]Good morning CPS.

[00:37:06]That is better.

[00:37:08]Uh may we kindly stand up and pay a moment of silence uh for the departed members, our colleagues, our relatives, but most importantly uh the husband to our council member.

[00:37:33]May their souls rest in eternal peace.

[00:37:37]Thank you.

[00:37:40]I have been assigned a very simple role and that is to communicate the CEO's welcome remarks.

[00:37:50]The welcome remarks had been uh uh had been appended within our our booklet and I will stick to the road as they are in there.

[00:38:04]I am pleased to welcome you to the Institute of Certified Public Accountants of Uganda fourth public finance management conference.

[00:38:14]This is a key platform for shaping dialogue on strengthening public finance for sustainable national development.

[00:38:24]This conference comes at a critical time when the government must adopt innovative approaches to resource utilization.

[00:38:35]Innovative approaches to enhancing efficiency in public expenditure, but also innovative approaches to strengthening accountability systems to meet the growing demands of the economy.

[00:38:52]ICPU ladies and gentlemen remains committed to contributing to national economic policy and promoting excellency in financial management.

[00:39:04]Through this conference, we provide a space for knowledge sharing, for professional development and constructive engagement amongst the different stakeholders that are following.

[00:39:21]The insights and resolutions generated here will contribute meaningfully to the ongoing policy discussions but also direction.

[00:39:32]Ladies and gentlemen, we are pleased to inform you that as part of the ICPU mandate, we have continuously engaged with parliamentary sectoral committees.

[00:39:47]For example, the sector committee on finance where we shared our position on various matters on the recent tax amendments or tax bills. uh through such engagements, our focus is to play a central role in shaping the country's financial but also economic landscape for better development.

[00:40:10]I wish to encourage all participants to actively engage in the discussions, share your experiences, but also leverage on the networking opportunities that are before us.

[00:40:26]I extend my sincere appreciation to esteemed partners.

[00:40:31]I thank you for supporting and collaborating with the institute now and always in as far as meeting the conference needs that we keep organizing.

[00:40:45]Ladies and gentlemen, we look forward to more partnerships.

[00:40:51]The co concludes wishing every one of us a fruitful but also impactful conference. Thank you so much.

[00:41:20]Okay. I presenters seem to get off guard when they're finalizing. So that's why you see me running through. I don't expect them to wind up that quickly. But here we are and uh we are running smoothly on time according to the program.

[00:41:38]>> Imagine a future.

[00:41:39]>> We are going to have a few environment connection in the program.

[00:41:47]I would like to announce that uh a chief guest who has now been confirmed is none other than the reigning prime minister of the republic of Uganda. That is the right honorable Robina Nabanja.

[00:42:10]She is um she has accepted to grace our function today and she is going to be our chief guest. She has only requested us that she will be coming in at 2.

[00:42:24]So that calls for a little adjustment in our program.

[00:42:29]So what we are going to do, good news, we are going to have an early lunch.

[00:42:35]Why you not clapping?

[00:42:38]or we don't have lunch at all.

[00:42:43]So the afternoon session which is digital transformation as a catalyst for social economic change uh that is going to see us um that is going to be uh done by Dr. Michael Kazito and CPA Frederick Chibedi is going to be pushed to 11.

[00:43:08]So they will be coming in to to replace the key president's address and then the chief guest's opening ceremony that's ceremony by the chief guest. So because of that switch, we are going to request that we have a very early lunch such that we are all back into the room by two to have the chief guest um open the ceremony when we have a full room to Okay, so that's a small announcement we are making. Also, whoever is here and hasn't yet uh clocked in, please make sure you have received your tag. That is the only way we account for your presence here. That's the only way you will account to your employers who have sent you here as well. And also for purposes of you u filing your returns as uh the manager has been informing us.

[00:44:06]So, please make sure you click in.

[00:44:11]I would love to make a few recognitions for some uh my being in the room.

[00:44:20]I will start with the president. Well, when I mention these people, please clap for them. We have the presence of our reigning president. That's the uh 11th president of the ICPAU, CPA Edom Timothy.

[00:44:45]Then we also have um our eighth president CPA.

[00:44:54]He's my father. He's my mentor and he has mentored most of us here. We are always proud to have you here.

[00:45:04]Let's welcome our eighth president, CPA Frederick Chibedi.

[00:45:13]I cannot forget to recognize CPS that is now going to represent us in parliament that MP forendo mukundre honorable CPA Seavira Javira I need to ask does honorable come before CPA or CPA comes before honorable Honorable comes first.

[00:45:44]So, honorable CPA Seabira Javira, you are most welcome.

[00:45:52]Also we have um CPA Fixon AO that is uh President Emeritus internal auditor general's office you are most welcome okay we have so many CPAs that are going to represent us in parliament and I will be giving you that list as and when they come in we will give them some recognition at least they give us comfort that we have some very good representation in parliament now maybe tomorrow we shall not have the win yet it is the Naz that have it so CPAs who are going to represent us in parliament please all our hopes are in you make that change we need to see it happening Okay. So going on next is the we are going to the topics now and I'm glad to inform you that both our speaker and our chairperson are all available.

[00:47:05]Um the topic is transition from NDP3 to NDP4 the successes challenges and strategic priorities and to take us through is going to be Dr. Nabido who will be introduced by the session chair who I am going to introduce just about now CPA Rogers Lola Semakula as I talk about you please move to the podium. CPA Rogers Semakula Lola is a full member of ICPAU in good standing.

[00:47:45]He has over 25 experience in banking working in centinary bank in hospitality. He has worked with Nile Hotel International and public finance where he has worked in Ministry of Works and Transport.

[00:48:01]He is a practitioner at Roselu and Associates, one of the few firms that uses casewear to audit clients books of accounts.

[00:48:13]Rogers is one of the pioneer students of Matt. He completed SECA in June 1999 and was among the pioneer graduates of ACCA of November 1999.

[00:48:26]Rogers holds an MBA in strategic planning from Edinburgh business school.

[00:48:31]He is also a student of financial modeling institute of the UK.

[00:48:36]Outside accounting, Rogers is the head of the Lady of Christ, the King Church in Campala. That's the one they call Sava Cristo. Not so. So, we have a Sava Cristo in our midst today. He headed the team that oversaw the construction of the new church.

[00:48:56]Rogers is happily married to a woman and is blessed with four daughters. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome CPA Rogers Lulu.

[00:49:17]Uh thank you very much Haj Haj CPA or CPA Haj I don't know I don't know the order.

[00:49:27]Uh I want to take this opportunity to invite our first speaker Dr. Winnavid.

[00:49:37]Doctor, come to the podium.

[00:50:34]also held the roles of senior M and officer at NPA and AKO jugg and lecturer at Mccur University moves and IUI with over 15 years of experience. Dr. Nabido oversees the commissioning of impact evaluations for government policies, programs and projects. This includes the midterm review of the national development plan three as well as comprehensive evaluations of the universal primary education, Uganda's decentralization policies and development financing mechanisms among others. A wife and a mother, she holds a PhD in economics from Mccer University.

[00:51:14]>> Thank you very much.

[00:51:16]Dr. Navidido is going to take us through the transition from NDB3 to NDP4.

[00:51:22]And I I just I yesterday they passed the sovereignty bill. So I don't know whether it was is going to affect us but Dr. Lido the stage is yours. You're welcome.

[00:51:46]A very good morning to you CPAs and a very good morning to those who are economists and not CPAs but CPAs in making because I see some in the room.

[00:52:01]I am honored to be standing before you to make this presentation but I also bring you warm greetings from national planning authority and um when I saw this topic and the invitation to come and make this presentation you just ignited certain feelings in me and I'll share with you when we did the midterm review of the NDP3 and we shared uh the performance at 17% I did not almost lose uh my job but I was put to task to open uh the spreadsheets to open the system and actually account for the 17%.

[00:52:46]which I did and uh until today I I know that number is one number that keeps u being mentioned in the government boardrooms but I'm here to give you where we are the journey of government in imple implementation of the national development plan.

[00:53:06]So uh this is just a quick a quick run through uh of the introduction uh what are the NDP3 successes the challenges along uh the PFM cycle uh the fourth national development plan priorities and uh what are the implementation reforms in line with the PFM so I'll run through uh very fast so we have I know all of us are aware we have the vision 2040 where we aspire to be a prosperous modern and uh modern society in the next 30 years. Uh that is when we had this uh vision but actually to have our GDP grow to 580 billion and a per capita target of uh 9,500 and today I know one of the things we keep on hearing is the 10-fold growth.

[00:53:57]So the 10-fold growth is a is a 15-year growth strategy that actually actualizes the vision 2040.

[00:54:07]But also to actualize the vision, we actually do that uh using the national development plans and right now as of July uh uh last financial year, we embarked on the journey of the NDP4 the national development plan for All right.

[00:54:30]So, uh the NDP4 has two uh uh two uh critical milestones. One, it is the maiden plan that is going to operationalize the 10-fold growth where we want to be a prosperous country but also have our GDP grow 10fold from a 50 billion US economy to a 500 billionaire billion economy and also the second thing it is the plan that marks the end of the SDG or the agenda 2030 the s sustainable development goals.

[00:55:10]But what is actually standing out uh in this presentation I must also clarify that every NDP is actually building on the successes of the previous plan. So the NDP4 is a successor plan of the NDP3 and actually it you know it it aims to address the bottlenecks that are challenged us in NDP3. looking forward uh to have uh our first step into the 10-fold growth.

[00:55:44]All right.

[00:55:47]So, I want to be able to talk about blitz number three. So, this presentation is going to be structured around the PFM cycle. So we'll be able to discuss or have a conversation about the planning PFM around planning around budgeting and financing implementation uh reporting and then feedback mechanism in terms of the uh accelerated acceleration of reforms required. So uh we first took uh the NDP3 suffered two major uh you know challenges.

[00:56:22]2020 is when we had the COVID breakdown and therefore we had a lockdown in 2020 and while we had produced the plan then we were required to go and revise the plan and integrate how COVID is likely to affect uh implementation of the plan in the first year in the second year of the plan then we had the Ukraine Russia uh war and you know how that affects logistics and in the third year or mid year or midway because it's a 5-year plan. We were supposed to undertake a midterm review. So when we undertook the midterm review, the government performance uh in terms of the budget and expenditure was over 90%.

[00:57:10]But the fiscal performance was at 17%.

[00:57:14]This is the number I was talking about.

[00:57:17]And while we had all those shocks, it was a little bit difficult to explain to people uh because what we do uh MDAS and local government send in uh through a platform uh their performance against the targets that we have all agreed upon as a government. So that performance was 17%. And while you had the account to explain uh COVID, uh the feedback uh wasn't a very good