Estate Attorney Demands $8,589 To Testify About The Trust He Drafted

[00:00:00]We are on the uh Boyd matter uh and we are on the record. This is your motion, Mr. Piggles. So go ahead, please.

[00:00:09]>> All right. The fact is the February 14th, 2015 motion for expert witness fees.

[00:00:19]>> And there was a prior September 6, 2024 answer to motion for order [clears throat] to show cause, but I'll just very briefly hit some of the more important I drafted an estate plan including a trust for Milton Boyd on October 20th, 2020.

[00:00:37]>> Uh I sent to his family including a petitioner in both these matters at the request of Mr. Boyd uh the in the trust two days later on October 22nd of 2020 four and a half years ago >> on August 6, 2021. Adult Protective Services filed a petition [clears throat] for appointment of conservator because Mr. Boyd had been scammed out of $44,000 by an unrelated party. At a hearing on September 21st, 2021, uh, Judge Cooper denied the motion for conservator, but ordered that mediation held to determine if he need help with his finances, perhaps a conservator in the future. Mr. Boyd then died on February in February of 2022.

[00:01:30]>> Greg Boyd hired Mr. Lumber to challenge the trust.

[00:01:35]Uh that beneficiary is Dicki who you can see on the screen.

[00:01:41]>> Uh she came to me and I declined to represent Miss Dicki uh the primary beneficiary of the trust because I knew I would be the primary or only expert witness this case. That's why I declined to represent her.

[00:01:57]Mr. Blumberg subpoenaed my client's files and demanded that I appear for a desk deposition without agreeing to pay me anything.

[00:02:06]Uh, totally invalid for his subpoena.

[00:02:09]His demands were totally invalid for the reasons referred to in paragraph 13 of the motion for expert witness fees.

[00:02:18]Mr. Blumbberg filed a motion of show cause on August 12th, 2024.

[00:02:25]I provided my answer on August 6, 2024.

[00:02:28]And we had a hearing >> hearing on September 17th, 2024 >> before Judge >> to escape the requirement to pay me for my expert opinions. Mr. Blumberg stated during that hearing that he would ask you no question concerning my expert opinions at my deposition. Therefore, Judge Cooper issued an order confirming that I would produce my files back to 2003 for the prior 21 years would be deposed and would uh receive only a non witness fee. Makes perfect sense. Mr. Blumbberg was going to ask me absolutely nothing.

[00:03:09]that required a expert opinion.

[00:03:13]I was deposed on November 22nd, 2024.

[00:03:18]Uh the court has should have the transcript as exhibit number six. As expected, the great majority of the questions went directly to expert opinion uh such as why did I do a trust instead of a will or joint ownership or all that kind of stuff. uh undue influence, conservatorship, guardianship.

[00:03:40]Virtually every question was either uh indirectly or directly related to my expert opinions.

[00:03:49]Uh uh I've outlined the exact page uh in the particular expert opinion at paragraph 21 of my motion to show that this isn't my imagination.

[00:04:01]You it can be read very easily.

[00:04:03][clears throat] Finally, Mr. Bloomberg became so confused by the obvious impossibility of separating my factual and expert opinions that he agreed to pay me as described in paragraph 22. Now, he might say he only agreed to pay me for answering two questions. Uh but the fact is if I'm going to be deposed as an expert, I have to prepare for uh a deposition and for trial. So, he said he was going to pay me and then didn't.

[00:04:34]And then he said in his answer to my motion that I'd cited nothing uh showing why I was entitled to expert witness fees.

[00:04:44]>> I guess he didn't read the brief.

[00:04:46]>> Uh MCL 600.61 uh 2164 allows this court to award expert fees if I testify to matters of opinion.

[00:04:57]That's almost the end of the argument.

[00:05:00]He was asking me repeatedly to testify to uh matters of opinion in the icult Michigan uh uh civil procedure which I quote in the brief.

[00:05:11]I'm not only entitled to expert witness fees for testimony but for preparation time.

[00:05:17]Obviously, my bill uh uh from J uh June 26, 2024 to December 5th, 2024 is attached as uh exhibit seven to the motion.

[00:05:31]Uh so what is the uh ridiculously high bill of 8,58960 as Mr. Denberg puts it that I have submitted and why is it that amount?

[00:05:43]First, I had to review my files for the prior 21 years.

[00:05:48]Uh, I I started uh writing things or doing estate plans for uh Mr. Boyd back in 2003. I had to look all that up.

[00:05:59]Um, I had to exchange repeated emails with Mr. Bloomberg where he simply demanded that I give him whatever he wanted and participate in the deposition with no compensation whatsoever. being threatened with malpractice many times in lawsuits while he was uh while he was uh sending those emails to me.

[00:06:21]I had to obtain and analyze both the estate and trust files which were separately filed by Mr. uh uh Blumberg and the estate files simply false.

[00:06:32]He said there was no will or didn't know about it. did not acknowledge that Miss Dicki was the name personal representative and somehow got Greg Boyd uh appointed as uh executive and personal representative when it should have been Melissa Dicki.

[00:06:48]I had to conduct extensive research concerning what is the responsibility of an estate planning lawyer acting as a witness in the proceeding attacking the estate plan. This was not obvious or easy to figure out what who I was responsible for to and what and whether I should be paid. It required extensive research to respond to Mr. Blumbberg's uh motion for a show cause contempt.

[00:07:18]Um I had to respond uh to do extensive research, write and respond to and argue a motion for show cause. I had to review the depositions of Melissa Dicki and Greg Boyd to see what they thought happened over the past five years. I had to do extensive legal research into undue influence and incapacity if I was going to testify. I had to prepare for and participate in my own November 22nd uh 2024 deposition. And then finally, when I sent a bill uh I had to uh and it was denied by Mr. Bloomberg, I had to draft this motion. He invited me to do so.

[00:08:02]So, all of this uh all the bill is payable by Mr. Greg Boyd andor his attorney Elliot Blumbberg since all of it is a result of their demands and activities, not the activities of Melissa Dicki or me or Mr. Inglesen.

[00:08:21]Uh, all of my activities are the result of the demands from Mr. Blumbberg beginning in June of 2024. It's just like deposing a medical doctor.

[00:08:34]Exactly like deposing a medical doctor, like a treating physician. You come in and you pay him instead of $225 an hour, you pay him $1,000 an hour when you go and you take the deposition of a medical doctor. Now, in the alternative, uh, Melissa Dicki is responsible for my expert fees since I received an email from Mr. Ingles on September 18th, 2024 stating, "Please include me in the selection of deposition dates." They're picking out when I was going to be deposed. At such time as there is a trial, we will call Jim to testify both as to the factual details of his file contents and his expert opinion as well.

[00:09:20]Mr. Inglesen is telling me that he's going to pay me as an expert.

[00:09:25]That was on September 18th. I had a conversation with Mi Mr. Inglesen on February 3rd, 2025 where Mr. Engles told me that he would personally immediately pay me some portion of my bill while trying to get uh Melissa Dicki, his client, to pay the remainder.

[00:09:44]Uh then there is MCL 700.7904 which states in a proceeding involving the administration of a trust, the court has justice and equity require may award costs and expenses including reasonable attorney fees to any party. They're talking about not a party to the case.

[00:10:05]Anybody who enhances, preserves, and protects trust property to be paid from the trust that is a subject of the proceeding. So, irrespective of Mr. uh English agreeing to pay me uh 7904 77904 requires that I be paid by the trust except for the fact that Mr. Blumberg and Greg Boyd are primary. They're the ones who have cost put me through at least 50 hours of my professional time dealing with this. No one has paid me a scent.

[00:10:39]So, uh, in summary, what I'm requesting is that I be awarded all of my past and future cost and attorney fees for activities relating to these proceedings since both Mr. Blumbberg and Mr. Inglesen have knowingly used my uh, services as an expert witness fee. not just used them, demanded them, forced me, filed a motion for contempt against me in order to force me to provide my expert opinion in this case. I knew my duty. I couldn't represent Miss uh uh Dicki because I was going to be an expert witness in this case, a necessary witness.

[00:11:18]Uh the other the other reason is of course because under the statute uh uh my my uh telling the court what is going on what is really happening in this case what really the facts are what really uh and all the expert opinions I'm being requested to provide enhances preserves and protects the trust in the state property now because there is The trust cannot come up with any money because it's all been frozen by Mr. Blumbberg improperly. They don't have any money. Mr. Englesen has no obligation to pay [clears throat] me out of his pocket. He offered to, but he doesn't have any real obligation to do so. Ms. Dicki has been cut off from access to any assets. So at very least I would ask that the court confirm that I have a lean on all trust and estate assets with priority over any other creditors of the estate particularly including Mr. Blumbberg and Mr. Englesen. I've been dragged into this.

[00:12:24]>> They're supposed to be the attorneys in this and uh and they're getting paid and I'm not.

[00:12:30]So that that is my request here.

[00:12:34]>> Mr. Blumbberg, your response. Where to begin? I mean, I had to listen to Mr. Pagel's resuscitation of the facts and then be reverberated to hear it a second time. I I struggle to to listen and to understand what he's saying. First of all, he's never been qualified as an expert witness in this case. He is a fact witness. He blames Mr. Englesen and I for causing the problem of him having to justify the work product that he created. His work product is the subject of this litigation. The fact of the matter is Judge Cooper specifically ordered him to appear for his deposition. He was ordered to produce his file in compliance with the court order. And when he showed up in my office, he held himself out to be an expert. Judge Cooper specifically ruled he will be there as a fact witness.

[00:13:35]His legal opinion was never asked, nor did he answer any questions relative to his legal opinion during his deposition.

[00:13:44]Judge Cooper's ruling specifically required us to preserve those issues.

[00:13:50]So, Mr. Paggels has totally misrepresented what he did at that deposition.

[00:13:56]Moreover, his claim of having to review 20 years of estate planning is ridiculous. He was asked to come in to my office under oath and answer fact questions relative to his representation of Mr. Boyd, Mr. Boyd's uh mental health, his observations of meetings of Mr. Boyd.

[00:14:20]Those are fact questions, not expert opinions. Moreover, Mr. Englesen has now held him out to be his expert at the time of trial. There is no retainer agreement between Mr. Paggels and Mr. Englesen. There have been no fees paid to Mr. uh Paggels. He has prepared no report as he's required to do as an expert witness.

[00:14:45]He uh akins himself to a a doctor who's being deposed in a medical malpractice case. The statute that really applies to this situation we've placed in our brief which says an attorney or counsel in any action or proceeding in which in which he may have an interest as an attorney or counsel shall not be paid any fee for attending as a witness in that action or proceeding.

[00:15:14]Mr. It is like a doctor who's committed malpractice. If Mr. Paggles were sued for malpractice and his deposition was taken. He couldn't charge an expert witness fee as an attorney giving a deposition. That's contrary to the statute. It is very much Mr. Paggel's work product that is being challenged in this action. You know, again, he wanted to get into the facts of the case. I don't think that's really the issue before the court today. The fact is adult protective services got involved and determined that Mr. Boyd needed legal protection because he didn't have the requisite mental capacity to manage his finances.

[00:15:58]So, Judge one, Mr. Pel is not entitled to a expert witness fee in this matter.

[00:16:04]He hasn't been designated as such by the court. I didn't ask for his legal opinion. He never gave his legal opinion. And this issue has already been ruled upon by Judge Cooper. He has specifically said James Paggels is a fact witness. He answers questions and those that he thinks he's being asked a legal opinion for shall be preserved for a later date. That's what Judge Cooper ruled. That's the order of this court.

[00:16:32]And this bill for $9,000, I don't know who he's asking to pay for it. He's now saying he's entitled to a lean. He's claiming that somehow my client froze the assets of the trust.

[00:16:45]That's not true. It's totally facious.

[00:16:50]And I for him to represent that to the court is just wrong.

[00:16:56]Melissa Dicki uh ability to manage the estate or the trust hasn't been encumbered in any fashion.

[00:17:05]for him to claim that he's entire entitled to a lean on the estate assets and the trust assets. There's no legal authority for that. He knows that he's wrong. He wants to get paid. And if anybody's required to pay him, it's the people that are hiring him. And that is the Milton Boyd Trust, Melissa Dicki, and Harryen.

[00:17:29]Certainly, we're not responsible for legal expert legal fees when he's never been determined by a court to be an expert witness.

[00:17:38]So, we are respectfully asking the court to deny this motion. We are prepared to pay the witness fee that he would be entitled to as a non-expert witness.

[00:17:49]We're not. And any copying fees that he's charged us, we're happy to pay. In fact, I thought we already paid it, but if we haven't, we'll pay for those, but nothing else. He's not entitled to anything more than that. And I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have.

[00:18:08]>> Thank you, Mr. Englesen. Any comments that you wish to make?

[00:18:12]>> Yes, briefly, your honor. I agree with Mr. Paggel's uh um he should be paid by Mr. Blumberg's client for all the work that went into his uh preparing and sitting for deposition. He he certainly is qualified as an expert. This isn't a malpractice case, by the way. And and it's accurate. Elliot, Mr. Blumbberg, emailed me asking questions about whether or not there was a report [clears throat] I had retained Mr. Pagel or paid him a retainer. I responded this morning and he's just cited to those facts.

[00:18:49]We do intend to call him for trial. We would ask the court to set a trial date.

[00:18:54]Uh if the court directs that a report be issued, I would either have a report issued by Mr. Paggels or tender his deposition transcript that if the court reads, we'll see that it's way beyond simple questions about did you meet him and did he come in and sit down? I mean it it it went chapter and verse through his whole uh expert opinion about the services provided and the capacity of [clears throat] Mr. Boyd to be able to uh execute those documents knowingly and with intent and without any any sort of misguidance or any undue influence.

[00:19:34]Um, so that's it in a nutshell and I repeat what I said in the midst of it, your honor, is I would hope after this hearing either today or soon that we get a trial date signed uh witness and exhibits be disclosed for trial purposes and exchanged and that this CA case can move toward conclusion.

[00:19:56]Again, like other council, if there's any question, I'd be happy to answer, your honor. Thank you.

[00:20:03]>> All right. Thank you. I appreciate that.

[00:20:06]>> I've had a chance to read through the motion for expert witness fees, including all of the attachments. I've read through Mr. Blumbberg's uh response to the motion and his brief, and I've listened to all of you uh today uh carefully. Uh however, I think we're putting the cart before the horse. I I'm going back to Judge Cooper's order following hearing on order to show cause uh which says as follows in pertinent part uh the attorney shall obtain a mutually agreeable date at which time James Faggel's Esquire shall present himself for deposition at the office of Blumberg and Blumberg PC. Attorney Paggel shall be paid a non-expert witness fee for his attendance. He shall be required to spawn respond to all fact questions that do not require an expert opinion. During the deposition, a record shall be made by the witness as to his unwillingness to respond to questions that call for an expert opinion. The plaintiff's request for costs is denied.

[00:21:05]Uh that is the sum and substance of everything that's happened so far. Uh there is no new court date, there is no new um witness uh actions, there's no new nothing. Uh what happened was what Judge Cooper ordered to happen. Uh so that's what's going to be paid as Judge Cooper ordered it. If there are future uh acts of testimony or acts of an expert witness or a declaration of an expert witness, then I will at that time if the parties can't settle their their differences, I will at that time rule on those things that are brought up. But as of today, I've heard nothing new from what was covered under Judge Cooper's prior order dated 102 of 24. Uh for that reason, the the motion is denied. Um I am not prepared today. did not know that there there was going to be a request for um preparation of a trial. So, I'm going to set this for a status conference uh at which point all attorneys can be present and we'll move forward with setting dates and on uh discovery and all those kinds of items getting ready for trial at that point.

[00:22:13]Um so, that'll be the order of the court. Uh Mr. Blumbberg, would you prepare that order, please?

[00:22:18]>> I would be happy to. Thank you, Judge.

[00:22:20]>> All right, that's all for today. Thank you.

[00:22:22]>> Thank you. Thank you.

[00:22:27]Thank you.