Christians, why do you believe

Added: 2026-05-31

[00:00:01]We are live.

[00:00:02]>> Hey.

[00:00:08]>> Wow.

[00:00:09]>> Sorry.

[00:00:09]>> No, that's cool. Normally, I'm the one bringing the uh >> Valley Girl.

[00:00:15]>> Yeah, Valley Girl vibe according to the >> Yeah.

[00:00:18]>> votes in the chat.

[00:00:20]There we go.

[00:00:22]>> All right.

[00:00:23]>> Thursday. Mark, nobody knows what day it is because it's Memorial Day week and we had Monday off and everything feels wacky, >> you know. I think that it even though it was a short week, I feel like tomorrow should be Saturday.

[00:00:36]>> Agreed. I wish I could only wish.

[00:00:38]>> It's It's almost harder on a short week because I get used to it at work today.

[00:00:44]In fact, that like the shorter weeks are harder somehow.

[00:00:48]>> Yeah. Yeah. Hey. Oh, hold on. I need to turn on my chat. I'm looking at it on a tiny screen here. Oops.

[00:00:56]Look at my chat.

[00:00:59]Oops.

[00:01:01]I swear I've done this before, y'all.

[00:01:02]>> Well, I swear you did me dirty.

[00:01:08]>> Oh, I Guys, we're trying something.

[00:01:11]>> You set me up today and and I don't have my chat right. I don't got you guys. I should have known. He thinks he's the king of technology, but like listen, let me set up my own screen.

[00:01:29]>> So, by the way, we we're going to be able to pull up our chat here in two seconds. We we're Anything you say now, we'll still be able to read. Uh it's just that you see we we screwed this up. Did you find Weird, huh? Oh, that was 8:07 p.m. So, that was from before.

[00:01:56]>> No, that was a minute ago.

[00:01:58]>> Oh, it is 8:07.

[00:02:00]>> Yeah. Why are we not seeing our chat?

[00:02:03]>> Oh, man.

[00:02:06]>> Technology is rough. Okay. Anyways, can some people try sending some chats so that we can troubleshoot? For some reason, we're not being able to see our chats on our screen. I I can see something from can't read the name from here. Karoo.

[00:02:25]>> Okay. Testing. Okay. Yeah.

[00:02:27]>> Yes.

[00:02:28]>> Oh, thank you.

[00:02:29]>> Okay. We've got the test. You're in.

[00:02:31]>> Okay. What did you do that I didn't do?

[00:02:33]>> I will fix yours.

[00:02:38]>> I got I got you. All right. Go ahead and talk about uh what's on the top of your mind. Interesting. Top You know what it is? Actually, YouTube changed things.

[00:02:50]>> Oh, >> yeah. It's like they used to have uh Interesting. Well, and there's like now like our calls are bump our things bumping up. So, you know what? We're rolling. We've got >> Yeah, but I want to be able to I guess if you have the chat up by >> I guess if you want to talk, I'll work on your computer.

[00:03:08]>> Okay. So, welcome in. Welcome in. We are here as an atheist couple who just likes to have conversations with believers about why they still believe. We would love for people to call up. Here's the link. Um, no pressure to put on video.

[00:03:25]You can put in whatever name you want us to call you. Be as anonymous as you want to be. Um, but just kind of come give us your thought process or if there's anything on your mind that you want to discuss.

[00:03:40]Um, it's just kind of a nice discussion panel. Okay, I can see you now.

[00:03:50]Thank you for coming in, my friend.

[00:03:53]And in the meantime, you were really excited about a new contradiction you found.

[00:04:00]>> Oh, yeah, but I'm saving that.

[00:04:02]>> Oh, okay. Well, then never mind. That will not be my time.

[00:04:05]>> Actually, okay. I'm going I'm going to spoil spoiler spoiler anybody who joined early.

[00:04:11]So So there's this crazy thing where I've been like uh reading Josephus.

[00:04:19]>> Yeah, it's interesting.

[00:04:21]>> And what happened was and stop me if I I said this on the last live. I don't think I did because I think I just >> Well, you just texted me this like yesterday.

[00:04:28]>> Yeah. So like Josephus was Josephus was talking about like King Jorah in the northern tribes of Israel. This is when Israel was split into two different sections.

[00:04:43]>> Yeah. Okay. So there was a civil war.

[00:04:45]Israel was in the northern 10 tribes and in the southern two tribes. And then uh Josephus was talking about like Jehor Jehoram in the north as king and Jehoram in the south as king and they were two >> that doesn't seem possible >> right as if they were two different Jehorams. So I was like, >> excuse me.

[00:05:06]>> Well, that is super weird and coincidental, right? So then I looked up and I was like, well, what's going on?

[00:05:14]And critical scholarship believes that in that time period there was actually one United Kingdom again. But the problem was it was united under the northern tribes. And as we all know from history, because like you can only go worship at the temple in Jerusalem, the southern tribes like won out and they only won out by survival because the northern 10 tribes got destroyed first and they all ran down south to to Judah.

[00:05:45]>> Sorry.

[00:05:45]>> And uh anyway, so so uh the king was just the same king in the north and south and they just didn't want to admit potentially. I don't know. I'm interested in uh talking to someone about that though because there are some verses in Kings that shed much more light on those >> in the wrong freaking profile.

[00:06:11]>> Oh, interesting. Um okay. Anybody want uh any Christian that believes still to this day that Christianity is real, we would love to um chat. I'm going to reach over. Not provocatively, but I'm helping my wife with Oh, you got it.

[00:06:30]Okay. All right. Uh, any Christians that want to call in? Um, this is an open space. We're just here to talk about um why it is that you still believe in Christianity. We were former Christians.

[00:06:43]I'm a former Protestant. Um she my wife is a former Catholic and we're interested in knowing why uh people still believe in Christianity. It could be anything. And we could be wrong.

[00:06:58]That's the thing. We're this is an open-minded discussion. Um we're not uh yellers or >> not typically >> throwers of Bibles around here. So Tina Fay >> 90% of the time was that who it was?

[00:07:15]No, Tina Fay was like a singer.

[00:07:16]>> No, it was Tina Fay.

[00:07:18]>> Tina Fay. Okay.

[00:07:19]>> If anyone >> Tammy Fay, >> if anyone has seen the movie Saved, Tina Fay throws a Bible. She says, "I am." It's Mandy Moore. I am filled with Christ's love. The Bible is not a weapon. We shouldn't throw it. None of us have ever thrown a Bible.

[00:07:40]>> She threw a Bible. Anyway, uh welcome in tonight. If you want to chat with us and tell us why you believe or what's on your mind, please feel free to call up.

[00:07:53]So, uh cool. Um we have um some questions. Let's see here.

[00:08:06]Scientific evidence proves beyond doubt that humans evolved and were not created by an imaginary invisible magic man on our team >> in the sky. That's a bold claim.

[00:08:18]Can lead Christians to knowledge but can't teach them to think about scientific evidence.

[00:08:23]>> Interesting.

[00:08:25]>> Spirituality over religion.

[00:08:27]>> I mean, I could get behind that.

[00:08:28]>> I almost said the word spirituality correctly. Uh, I'm >> definitely with Chris, though.

[00:08:36]Blue Sea spirituality. What do you mean by that? Spirituality over religion.

[00:08:40]Interested to know what you mean by that. And we can interact chatwise too.

[00:08:44]So >> yeah, absolutely.

[00:08:45]>> People can call in. You don't have to use your camera if you don't want. If you want to just engage in chat, that works too. This is a platform. We usually do get quite a few views. Um so this is a nice place for folks to kind of share their their uh worldview one way or the other. Um, we try to keep it, you know, positive and, uh, open-minded as far as that goes. So, um, trying to think of something else.

[00:09:08]I'm actually just now getting into the whole part of Josephus where it gets out of the biblical text. And so, now we're getting into that what's called in the Bible the period of silence, which is where um, we kind of end essentially.

[00:09:25]I think Daniel was pretty much the what the last canonical book written. Um, and then we enter into what's called the period of the Mcabes.

[00:09:36]So, uh, that's where Josephus picks up historically, which is what I'm reading right now. Um, these are the dudes who like to go and I've never heard of arguments such as tag. What is this tag argument? Uh, the clown apparently >> the clown who came to town. And I'm not making that up for future folks that can't uh correspond it with the uh chat.

[00:09:59]Also, it looks like we had someone join the chat. We will join it. But I clown who came to town. I don't think that tags an argument. I think it is a game played on the playground. So, if you would like to come up and play games, clown who came to town, we would love to have the conversation.

[00:10:18]Tag. What are they talking about?

[00:10:21]>> Never heard of it.

[00:10:22]>> So, okay. Anyways, super weird.

[00:10:24]>> Okay. Okay. So, Jackson, uh, first of all, >> do you have our, uh, oh, there we go.

[00:10:31]>> Cool. We're gonna bring you on up, Jackson.

[00:10:34]Jackson, can you hear us? And are you over the age of 18?

[00:10:37]>> Yeah.

[00:10:38]>> Awesome. And great audio, by the way.

[00:10:44]>> Yeah. Yeah, you sound good. Actually, I'm gonna turn turn >> just a tad. Not your problem. We just have to adjust our mic the first caller sometimes >> or >> we are getting >> Oh, we are getting an echo.

[00:10:55]>> But that's all right. If you got headphones, cool. Pop them in. But if not, I think we're okay, actually. So, um, Jackson, this is an open space as far as like um we're trying to we're trying to understand why Christians still believe because we were both Christians.

[00:11:10]And myself, it's kind of like been 2,000 years. Dude said he was coming back.

[00:11:17]still has it come back I start to lose my maybe it's maybe it's the ADD culture. Uh I don't know what what's your thoughts on Christianity and why you still believe if you're a Christian.

[00:11:28]>> Um well I I kind of just want to ask you guys some questions first.

[00:11:33]>> Sure.

[00:11:33]>> I've been watching you guys for a little bit and I want to define real quick. Are are you guys Christians?

[00:11:40]>> No.

[00:11:41]>> Former Christians.

[00:11:42]>> We were Christians. We used to be Christians.

[00:11:44]>> So neither Okay. Do either of you believe in God?

[00:11:47]>> No.

[00:11:48]>> I'm agnostic. I think that there could be a God. Um I just don't I just know for sure it's not the Christian God.

[00:11:56]>> Okay. Why do you think there is a God?

[00:11:59]>> Uh I don't necessarily think there is a God at all. I think we can't disprove the fact that there might be something, but it's not any of the gods I've been presented with.

[00:12:08]>> She wants to play that game on the playground. I >> I don't want to play that game. I'm answering the question.

[00:12:14]Well, a second ago you said you don't believe in God. And now you're saying that you think there might be.

[00:12:20]>> No, that's not what I said.

[00:12:23]>> Okay.

[00:12:24]>> I said I am not convinced that any of the gods I have presented with have been presented with are true. Now, that doesn't mean that at some point in the future someone might have evidence that will convince me, but that doesn't mean I believe in God. now >> and I would take a slightly different >> God or not?

[00:12:45]>> No.

[00:12:46]>> Okay. You don't. Okay. What What about you, sir? You said you do think you there might be a god.

[00:12:52]>> I think that there could be a god. Um I think that there also could be like an alien kid like with a science experiment or like a really advanced computer program and we're all just like in some sort of like, you know, experiment or computer program. So, I mean, I think that there's a lot of different like and and if you think about it, if that kid invented some sort of like like we're all NPCs, but we can actually interact with with each other and like have a realistic experience just because it's so so advanced to us that kid, that alien kid would be God. So, your definition of God is actually in question also at this point. Like, what what do you think? Can you define God?

[00:13:33]Like what what is God? I I didn't you said my definition of God. I didn't give you a definition of God.

[00:13:41]>> Start there, but you wanted >> I was going to ask you. I was going to ask you what what is your definition of God? Do you have one? It's okay if you don't.

[00:13:50]>> I don't. I don't have a definition of God. I guess I guess to me if if I was just to freeball it, I would say my definition of God >> would be a create some sort of a creative mind. It could be a demi urge. It could be all good. It could be all bad. It could be indifferent.

[00:14:13]It could be something completely removed. something that like I think I think I guess for me if there was such a thing as a god that it would be that it would mean that the universe had uh an organizing um builder or thought behind it versus just pure naturalism.

[00:14:37]>> And you said that you're open to the idea that God could exist.

[00:14:41]>> Yeah.

[00:14:42]>> Okay.

[00:14:43]>> Hold on. A god >> that definition. Yeah. Okay. That a god could exist.

[00:14:48]>> Absolutely.

[00:14:48]>> A creator of the universe could exist.

[00:14:51]>> Yeah. Absolutely.

[00:14:52]>> Okay. Why do you think that there could be a creator?

[00:14:54]>> Because I can't step outside the big bang.

[00:14:58]>> Okay.

[00:15:00]Is there any other >> So the universe could be infinitely eternal or it also could not be. But if I if I introduce the thought that the universe can't be eternal because nothing can be eternal. But then I run into a problem. Well, if God is eternal and nothing can be eternal, then there's no God. So, it can be either an infinite universe or an infinite God. But I can't see past the event horizon, which currently with our modern science is the big bang with the 3.7 billion years of light that we can see.

[00:15:31]>> Okay.

[00:15:33]Um I earlier uh what are your names so I know like how >> Josh >> Adele Okay. Um Adele earlier you said that none of the uh examples of God that you've been presented with you feel like could be true.

[00:15:51]>> Yes.

[00:15:51]>> Um what examples have you been presented with?

[00:15:55]>> I mean primarily the Christian God.

[00:15:59]>> Okay. But like as much as I've looked into any of the other gods, like >> they they seem to be equally infall or like fallible. Not infallible.

[00:16:13]Sorry.

[00:16:14]>> What about the God of Islam?

[00:16:16]>> Yeah, I agree. Not it's equally fallible.

[00:16:20]>> The God of Islam is equally fallible as the God of Christianity.

[00:16:23]>> Yes.

[00:16:25]>> Are they the same God?

[00:16:27]I it depends who you ask.

[00:16:30]>> Okay. How long have uh the two of you been studying theology?

[00:16:37]>> I mean, I'm not a theology major, nor is my wife. Uh we're lay people. So, you know, as long I was a Christian till I was 33, 35.

[00:16:48]Um >> So, you you don't consider yourself like a theologist?

[00:16:54]>> No. I mean, I haven't gone to school for it. I don't have a degree in it. No.

[00:16:59]>> Okay. Do you get Do you consider yourselves people who study theology?

[00:17:03]>> I consider myself someone who reads a lot and tries to learn about a lot of situations. What kind of trap are you trying to corner us?

[00:17:12]>> I'm not I'm not trying to corner you into any trap. It's just I've noticed that when people come on to your show, they don't ask you questions that like define the discussion. And so, uh, >> our credentials, my credential is I grew up.

[00:17:28]>> No, I'm not trying to credentials.

[00:17:30]>> And I went to a one room schoolhouse and I only got my bachelor's after five and a half years. I was on the five and a half year plan.

[00:17:38]>> I was on the four and a half year plan.

[00:17:39]I thought that was pretty good.

[00:17:41]>> And I'm not a theology major. And I find it humorous that uh Christians can tell me that their God's real with my limited education. Uh, and I can like not be in any way, shape, or form intimidated because it's completely absurd because the text like proves itself wrong.

[00:18:00]>> Well, are you guys are are you saying that you need a degree in theology in order to be a theologist? Why Why do you keep bringing up the degrees?

[00:18:08]>> Well, you asked the question.

[00:18:09]>> You asked if we were theologists and I didn't want to falsely present myself.

[00:18:13]Now, that doesn't mean that I haven't Hold on. That doesn't mean I haven't extensively read the Bible. That doesn't mean I haven't extensively read other rel religious texts. I've read um a lot of Rabbi Tovia's texts. I've read the story the epic of Gilgamesh. I've read the dedicay. I've read all kinds of other works as well. We read literally all the time. We share libraries. So yes, we are studying, but that doesn't mean like I feel like I can give myself a title.

[00:18:45]>> Which is why this is called the inquiry couple. We're not like the, you know, definitive answer couple, but I'm interested to know like, yeah, go ahead and continue to ask questions, though. I like this.

[00:18:57]>> Um, it says I I I've also looked on your YouTube description. Um, it says, "Talk to a curious atheist couple as we delve into our respectfully yet challenging discussions with Christians about their faith." So, are you atheist or are you agnostic?

[00:19:13]>> Agnostic atheist for me.

[00:19:15]>> Okay. Uh, what are you curious about specifically?

[00:19:20]>> Why Christians still believe >> and and what's convincing to them?

[00:19:25]>> Why Christians specifically? Why? Why not?

[00:19:28]>> Because that's what we have the most experience in >> we live in a country.

[00:19:32]>> Because like even when you go to your job, they tell you talk about the things you know about, right? Like I'm not going to go into a meeting and talk about something in a completely different department that I don't know anything about. So like yes, we agree that the Muslim God is equally ridiculous.

[00:19:50]All of the c like there's a lot of things that we could like agree upon, but to have a logical long-term conversation, we wanted the topic to be the thing that we have the most knowledge of, >> which by the way, Jackson, uh appreciate this a lot because quite frankly, you know, people just aren't usually interested. So, this is kind of like a get to know your host kind of a session and we'll definitely clip this because it's helpful for people to know like where do we come from, what's our background, why are we interested in this. So, yeah, go ahead and continue.

[00:20:20]We appreciate that.

[00:20:22]>> Um, so how long have you guys like been studying the Bible?

[00:20:28]>> I have studied the Bible whatever age you consider a person being able to like, you know, read and like actually get interested in stuff. So, as a kid until probably, well, now >> I'm reading Josephus. So, >> okay.

[00:20:43]>> I'm bored and reading Josephus.

[00:20:45]>> So, I mean, >> I I don't know how old you guys are. I'm not gonna ask >> I'm 45. I'm 45. Yeah.

[00:20:50]>> You don't You don't need to say that on on the internet, man.

[00:20:53]>> Oh, no. It's cool, man. I'm proud of it.

[00:20:54]I'm rocking I'm rocking the 45.

[00:20:58]>> Um I just don't want you to like give identifying information about yourself.

[00:21:02]>> No, no, no, not at all. It's cool.

[00:21:04]>> Crazy. Um, and what I'm So, would you just say over 20 years?

[00:21:10]>> Oh, yeah, definitely. I I dedicated my entire life to Christianity for over 20 years. And then, uh, when I was 3 uh five, I I had a a massive spike in studying from age 33 to 35 because I was a I was a I was I was a probably a person like yourself where I would go online. back then we didn't have YouTube streams like this but I was in the forums uh as an apologist and uh so I was I was well read from the Christian apologetic standpoint and then I deconstructed when I was 33 and then from 33 to 35 I had to decide am I going to now burn in hell forever because I don't believe this and am I justified in not believing this. So obviously I dedicated two years of my life to figuring that out and then of course it's not like an easy uh >> exit. Yeah, it's not an easy hill to sled up uh after you decide to like, you know, go against your entire community, family, and everything, especially because you had to do it kind of in secret uh because you'll get excommunicated. But um but then now uh I find it quite interesting uh studying through a different lens, which is like kind of from a more critical scholarship angle, I guess.

[00:22:22]>> You uh what what uh oh, what are they called? Sorry, I'm blanking on the word.

[00:22:28]>> You're good. It's okay. Um, oh, they're not called branches, >> division or denomination.

[00:22:36]>> Yeah, denomination. Thank you. Yeah, what denomination?

[00:22:38]>> I was I was non I was non-denominational fundamentalist Christian. So, I started as an evangelical and then uh went the non-denominational route because quite frankly uh I was so um I I I didn't think that any denomination had everything perfect >> and I am a perfectionist. And so what I did was I got involved in church leadership and was part of non-denominational churches that were um focused on making sure that we were teaching the you know accurately biblical version of Christianity >> to the best that we could expose. Right.

[00:23:27]>> Um Adele, how long would you say you've been studying the Bible? Um, I had a later start. Well, kind of. I was eight years old. My dad had remarried and he married a pretty devout Catholic as my stepmom. And my dad converted and I think I was I was 8 years old. I was in second grade when essentially I was presented with the fact that you're not baptized, you're going to hell. And that scared me. So, I started asking my dad questions. I started going to Catholic classes. I got baptized. And I was a very, very devout believer throughout elementary, middle school, high school.

[00:24:15]And it was about the time I went to college that I kind of started to question the construct like the organized religion part of it. I I don't know that I could say I was like of like, oh, I I don't believe at all.

[00:24:32]But like the organized religion and the and the church and and the people there, I had a lot of problems that I saw with people's behavior and church tithing and all kinds of things that I had a lot of questions about. So, I started to slowly deconstruct around the time I went to college. And uh that doesn't mean I ever stopped reading, though.

[00:24:57]Uh, >> she's a reader. She is an English.

[00:24:58]>> I was an English major. So, >> she's a reader.

[00:25:01]>> This is an off-topic question. Uh, real quick, I don't I don't Please don't kick me off for asking an off topic.

[00:25:06]>> No, you're good. You're good.

[00:25:08]>> Uh, what did you guys uh go to college for? Um, I'll I I'll say for I went for math. I I got my degree.

[00:25:15]>> I was an English major. I was going to be a middle school English teacher.

[00:25:19]>> Business, >> which is not what I do, by the way. I was business administration because I had no freaking clue what I wanted to do. Uh and it sounded like if you got into business, you could >> do make a living >> much of anything. Yeah.

[00:25:32]>> I was I was in a fraternity with a lot of business majors. And also, um >> I just want to let you guys know I am Christian. I don't want to like keep you guessing on like what I am or anything, but um so you guys have both like been studying the Bible for a very long time.

[00:25:49]Uh, >> well, here, show them our Bible.

[00:25:52]>> Oh, I did actually. I almost didn't have it because I was working on it upstairs.

[00:25:55]We got We got some tabs in our Bible.

[00:25:57]>> This is our current Bible.

[00:25:59]>> This is version one of three.

[00:26:01]>> We study the Bible.

[00:26:05]>> Would you be offended if I asked you some questions about the Bible?

[00:26:08]>> I'd love you to.

[00:26:10]>> You're This is great. Yeah, thank you.

[00:26:12]I'd love to.

[00:26:13]>> Can you Can you name the books of the Bible that are in the Torah?

[00:26:18]Uh, so not the Tanakh, not And you're talking about the penetuk, Genesis, Exel, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy.

[00:26:27]>> Yes. Okay, good. I was just making sure you weren't.

[00:26:30]>> Yeah. No, you're good.

[00:26:32]>> We can go through minor major prophets if you want.

[00:26:34]>> Can I ask you to do Bible reading?

[00:26:37]>> Can I ask you a question? Name uh three high priests.

[00:26:45]>> And you're googling. I hear the clicking. It's uh Caiaphas uh Eleazar and Annias.

[00:26:52]But it's okay. That was my question. So that's not fair. We're not doing sword drills. If you've been in the if you've been in the church long enough, you know what I'm talking about. It's not It's not a weird fraternity thing. It's how fast you can get to a >> to a passage or a book.

[00:27:06]>> We But but we would love to have some challenging biblical conversation if that's where you wanted to go with this.

[00:27:14]That like that's what we're here for.

[00:27:17]Um, real quick did here. I I'll I'll move my stuff away.

[00:27:22]All right. I'm talking to some friends on Discord, but um Oh, you're cool.

[00:27:26]>> They can't hear They can't hear what we're saying.

[00:27:28]>> It's cool if they can. It's Yeah, it's cool.

[00:27:30]>> Um, I just didn't want you to think I was doing anything weird. So, no, I didn't Google who uh >> the three high priests.

[00:27:41]>> The three high priests were. And if I'm I sound like shaky or something. This is the first time I've ever called somebody on like a live show.

[00:27:49]>> Dude, this is like we're new, too. This is like We're a month and a half in.

[00:27:54]>> I mean, big claps for calling up like >> I never actually called, now that I think about it, I never actually called into a live.

[00:28:01]>> I chatted in, but I don't think >> I've done a lot of super chats. I've never been on the opposite side.

[00:28:06]>> Yeah. So, I get it. No worries there.

[00:28:08]Yeah, it's cool.

[00:28:09]>> Um >> I mean, and I apologize if I sounded a little on edge. We just sometimes have people coming in trying to like hedge us into a corner with like an agenda and >> well I mean >> I don't necessarily think you have one.

[00:28:22]I think you might kind of have one like you have maybe a point weird or anything but I I don't have an agenda or a point.

[00:28:30]I mean I do plan on disagreeing with you guys. I just wanted I've noticed that like whenever you guys are talking to people that come into your live streams, they they don't like define what we're actually talking about and it turns into some sort of emotional argument like kind of just back and forth that doesn't really seem to get anywhere.

[00:28:54]>> Sometimes I think we have a lot of really calm conversations on this channel. Occasionally it escalates >> comparatively, right? Because there's a lot of atheist channels out there where they're just like, you know, getting back and forth. We try to we try to like let the we try to let the caller talk more um understand their point. Now, we're going to ask the tough questions.

[00:29:14]And unfortunately, because we're talking about something that we both understand, right, as being former Christians, that it is very emotional, right? Because if if this is your core identity, like if this is what you believe is the reason you exist for and someone is challenging the fact that it might be completely fake, like that's emotional. Like it gets >> Well, no. I don't think that people should be arguing because you're saying that their life belief is fake. I think they should be arguing because they don't want anybody to not have to live without Jesus. That's kind of the the >> I appreciate that.

[00:29:52]>> I think that that's a very fair and honest answer as a believer. So, thank you for that >> and a kind approach actually. Very much appreciate that. Yeah.

[00:30:00]>> We actually ask each other all the time why more people aren't concerned about like our salvation.

[00:30:08]>> Jackson, can I tell you something like crazy? So, like uh so just when when did I have that conversation with my mom?

[00:30:16]Monday.

[00:30:16]>> Like two days ago.

[00:30:17]>> Yeah. Okay. So, we're in the US, so it was Memorial Day. And uh I didn't tell my parents that I wasn't a Christian. I grew up in a like very devout Christian family. That would be an understatement.

[00:30:30]Um and uh >> as the in-law, I can attest. So, I uh I was thinking like, "Oh my goodness, if I tell them that I'm no that I no longer am convinced that this is a real thing that that I'm never literally we are not going to have a Thanksgiving meal without hearing about this, a Christmas, a birthday there, a phone call. Like the family life is ruined because every single time we engage, they're going to be like on my back about like why don't you believe and coming to me with evidence and blah blah blah and stuff. And so I was like super hesitant because like we have a family and I don't want like our kids to be like subject to that sort of thing.

[00:31:17]Not that I not like we want our kids to also have an open mind, right? So I want them to hear all perspectives, but I don't want like any hostility from family. And my family typically, at least from what I saw from them when I was a Christian, were very um non-passive, if that makes sense. Not necessarily like hostile by any stretch of the word, but at least not afraid to speak.

[00:31:40]>> Yeah. Vocal.

[00:31:41]>> Vocal. Yeah. Vocal. And what was super bizarre to me is that like after the first phone conversation, like where they were just trying to be like, "Wait, what are you talking about?" type of thing. I didn't hear anything for like years. And it was kind of like the elephant in the room where I was like, I'm not going to bring this up. And when I say years, I mean two years. This is recent. Like I just came out to them recently.

[00:32:04]>> I think that that's even a stretch. I would say it's a yearish.

[00:32:07]>> Yeah. Actually, it's probably like that.

[00:32:08]And so this conversation with my mom on Memorial Day, I was like, dude, like I was like, I really expected you guys to come at me with a bunch of like concern and stuff. And what was weird is I didn't say it on the phone call, but but and she said, "Well, we don't get to spend that much time together all the time because we have some separation in terms of distance, >> but she was like, "So, we don't want to like make things weird when we're all together." And and then when we got off the phone, like the next day, I was thinking about this. Um, and I was like, "Well, how concerned are you for my eternal soul?" And I know she is and I know she's praying and I know that's her like cope for it. But at the same time, the fact that you're interested in our souls as just like randoms from the internet is meaningful and I appreciate that is what I'm trying to say.

[00:32:58]>> Um, yeah. No, I mean, no problem, man.

[00:33:01]But, uh, earlier here, we we'll get into the Bible stuff here in a second. Yeah.

[00:33:06]But, um, cool. Yeah. earlier.

[00:33:10]I mean, Adele had asked me if I have an agenda.

[00:33:15]Uh, no. I I don't necessarily have an agenda. My my end goal, which I know is probably not going to happen in this call.

[00:33:23]Um, is to maybe like plant a seed of faith. But, um, >> I don't need you to think I'm like trying to get in your head. I don't think I'm trying I don't want you guys to think I'm trying to get in your head or manipulate you or something, but that is like the end goal of my conversation with you. But uh she asked me if I have an agenda and I think anybody going into like a conversation where you know you're going to disagree like you're going to have an agenda.

[00:33:53]Um, which kind of >> to be fair, just a moment ago I said I apologized if I seemed prickly because a lot of people come in here with an agenda that's >> aggressive and so I just kind of had my guard up when you asked your initial questions and I was apologizing for that.

[00:34:10]>> It's it's okay. You you don't you don't need to apologize. Um, but uh would you guys consider that you present yourselves in like a non-argumentative way or like non >> uh we try to I would say probably 90% of the time.

[00:34:26]>> I mean there's going to be times where things cross over a certain line.

[00:34:29]>> There are times when conversation goes to places that >> we're subject to human emotion too.

[00:34:35]Unfortunately, >> by and large we have a lot of really nice conversations.

[00:34:41]We have repeat callers. We have callers who are believers that are subscribed to our channel. They email us regularly.

[00:34:47]>> Which reminds me, one caller I >> have family pictures from our call.

[00:34:50]>> Yeah. One caller I was supposed to email when we went live next and I just now remembered. I'm going to do that now.

[00:34:54]I'm sorry.

[00:34:56]>> Ray, I believe.

[00:34:57]>> Yeah. So, sorry about that, Ray.

[00:34:58]>> So, Ray, if you're watching, sorry later. Sorry.

[00:35:02]>> But no, like we we aren't trying to be divisive. you you that that's what I yeah that's a really >> that doesn't mean that topics that people feel very strongly about don't occasionally >> cause emotions to rise of course that's going to happen but I would say most of the time our conversations stay pretty much at this level >> um the green screen background that you guys have is that supposed to be you guys in hell >> that is us in hell >> yes okay >> because we believe in is it the Hebrews version where you can go to hell even if you've believed or and then the James version is where you can't get snatched.

[00:35:45]>> But you notice we're not in shield.

[00:35:47]>> Yeah, shield is way down here.

[00:35:50]We're in the middle. We're in the hell zone. We're in the gea phase of life.

[00:35:55]>> I mean, maybe it's purgatory.

[00:35:57]>> Yeah.

[00:35:59]>> Oh, we're getting some feedback.

[00:36:01]Whatever.

[00:36:01]>> Hold on. One stop. We can't quite hear you.

[00:36:03]>> Yeah, whatever just changed. We went into uh feedback mode.

[00:36:06]>> It's a little garbledy. I bet it'll >> It's coming in.

[00:36:12]>> Oh no.

[00:36:14]Darn it. It was good. I got major.

[00:36:19]>> Yeah, you're good.

[00:36:20]>> You're good. And if you have to like up, it'll bring you right back up.

[00:36:30]>> Interestingly enough, >> kind of sounds like you're mosquito.

[00:36:33]Yeah, it actually garbled your audio up more. We echo a little bit less.

[00:36:42]I can tell you're techsavvy, though. I appreciate you being able to dive data.

[00:36:49]Uh >> someone asked if this is what hell sounds like.

[00:36:57]And it I would imagine Okay, now actually it sounded real better. It sounded better now.

[00:37:02]>> Talk again.

[00:37:03]Yeah. Can you hear me?

[00:37:04]>> Yeah. Perfect. Yeah, you're good. Clear.

[00:37:06]Clear as a bell.

[00:37:07]>> Yep.

[00:37:09]>> Um, okay. Here. If if I have to, I'll just connect with my uh my computer with my computer.

[00:37:20]>> We'll wait for you. If you if it if it comes up, we'll wait. No worries.

[00:37:24]>> We do have someone else in the box, but um as long as they're willing to uh we we take each caller one at a time. So, >> uh, and you and you're fantastic. I'd love to continue this conversation. So, yeah.

[00:37:37]>> I will say we have an agenda. Like, I have an agenda, too. And we're both independent people. So, we're not like the uh Facebook couple where we have, no offense to any Facebook couples.

[00:37:46]>> Oh, the joint account.

[00:37:47]>> We don't have a joint.

[00:37:48]>> We don't even have a joint like checking account, >> which is why I'm never on freaking Facebook because she's the Facebook. We don't do that. But but my agenda, if if I'm being honest, so I'm I'll throw my cards on the table, too. So, like, because you were honest, I'll be honest.

[00:38:02]Um my agenda is um I think after personally having been a Christian for most of my life and like devoting my entire life to it um I think that if I would have been given like all of the like um reasonable options from the beginning um that I might have chosen a different path. And my agenda is to present people with an option like of the alternative view for them to choose from. So like for example >> or even just think about >> or just think about Exactly. So like where you're coming and proposing your side of the story. That's why we do this. Like we want you to present your side of the story. When my son was uh growing up, I read him the Bible. I read him Norse mythology. I read him Greek mythology. We went through all of the different that I had access to like kind of mythologies and present in a way that's like okay now what do you what do you want to do like here >> or yeah take what you want >> and I think the problem is like yeah go ahead >> what else did you read them like did you read them anything that >> well they write I mean like everything from like Lord of the Rings to >> just a lot of literature but the primary mythologies um at the time I was not as familiar as I am now he's older now and I'm more well read now than I was then.

[00:39:23]But at the time, the primary ones were Greek mythology, Norse mythology, Christianity. Oh, and it was a kid version. All of them were kid versions.

[00:39:32]I didn't like we weren't like cranking through Leviticus, like but but they were the kid versions of everything.

[00:39:38]>> I Yes, we're real people including Sorry, just for chat purposes, >> including Islam. Uh we in in fact, that's when I first realized that Jesus was in the Quran. I was like, "Wait, what?" Like I'm reading through this with my son and I'm like, "Wait, what?"

[00:39:52]And so then of course it made me like study more too. So uh I I was I was like I had my blinders on for most of my life for just Christianity. So actually it was an interesting exper thought experiment when I started working through these things with my son to kind of expand uh that sort of thing. So >> um I noticed I mean did you read him any like Richard Dawkins or anything?

[00:40:18]>> No. At that point, I was not as like hardcore like u and I'm still wouldn't consider myself hardcore atheist. I I like the naturalist like thought process.

[00:40:29]>> We do appreciate the four horsemen, but >> Right. Right. But we weren't trying to what I was very careful not to do was indoctrinate by any stretch because I >> was mostly introductions.

[00:40:39]>> Yeah. I feel like that was that's that that's where when when someone's like, "Oh, you're not a Christian. Who hurt you?" Well, all those people that didn't give me any other uh options. So, my my goal was to give our children options like we didn't go into like Richard Dawkins and like Sam Harris and like these like hardcore like you know one-way thinkers. We went more to the source texts from the from the cultures that support their own source text if that makes sense.

[00:41:12]>> How long have you guys uh real just curious how long have you guys been doing this?

[00:41:16]month.

[00:41:17]>> Only a couple months.

[00:41:18]>> Yeah. Okay.

[00:41:19]>> We're babies. Uh we've been watching the community for a very for probably what a good year and a half.

[00:41:25]>> Yeah. There's like >> maybe two years.

[00:41:27]>> Time blurs when you're an adult. It's hard for me to know what day it is. I can't believe it's almost June of 2026.

[00:41:33]So, a year or two we've been delving deep into the community, watching other content creators, giving a lot of support to the community, getting a lot of support from the community. And this guy was like, "It might be kind of fun to do a little bit of a different thing where like both of us are on here and we have two different perspectives and we can have conversations with each other and you can call me out and I can call you out." And I was like, "Oh, sure.

[00:41:56]That's never going to happen." And then he spent I mean, we probably started preparing to have a channel last October. We just >> and it took months to dial in technology because the sound is different when you have two people and you have to have two sets of microphones that can't echo back in or two sets of earbuds that can't echo back into your microphone to have feedback for your callers and your listeners and you have to have the right sound studios and you have to make backgrounds and you have to I mean there's just a lot more than you think about. Um and it took us probably a good six months I don't know. But we went live for the first time maybe two months ago tops and we've just had a really good time. I would say like we don't always have the very most viewers, but as long as we have someone here to talk to, we have a good time.

[00:42:48]>> I mean, we had 18,000 views on a live a couple weeks a week ago. So, I mean, it's not bad.

[00:42:56]>> I feel like we're I feel like we have good traction as far as becoming a channel in the community. I feel like we have a little bit we offer a little bit of a different space than some of the other channels. Um I don't know.

[00:43:10]>> So um it says that you guys are a curious atheist couple and um that's that's kind of what I've seen. What are you curious about specifically?

[00:43:25]curious about when we're talking to a specific person, what specifically is convincing to them?

[00:43:33]>> Yeah. Couldn't say it better. It's basically like >> cuz it might not be the same for every person we talk to, but having been in the seats and now having kind of read studied >> now that I think it's >> behaved our way out. think of the way to say like even just like through my day-to-day life like I've kind of like come out of it and I'm I'm curious not because I necessarily have an agenda to deconstruct people but if there are people deconstructing and they find our channel and we can help them that is an agenda I want to help people if they're on some kind of process of questioning whatever that might be that doesn't mean they have to fully deconstruct even that could just be maybe I'm not okay with organized religion and I want to come here to just like I believe in a deity, you know? I mean, there's there's levels to it. And I think that all of that needs to be respected and and seen. And I think that there's not necessarily always a space for that. I didn't have a space when I was going through it. He definitely didn't have a space. So, >> I was so I was literally like jotting notes in a sticky note inside of my >> Good morning, Dusk Frame. So good to see you. I was hoping you'd wake up.

[00:44:52]>> I uh I was jotting notes inside of my Bible of like problems that all of a sudden were like uh cuz I mean I was an apologist so I was addressing the problems but then there were certain problems where I was like ah crap. And then it was like well what if these other problems don't have to be defended and I was like oh crap. And then it you know I mean it was like a domino effect a little bit. Um, but my the reason why I what I'm curious about Christians is that now that we're in this age of information. So, it's like if you wonder where why you know the last section of Mark in your Bible says it wasn't in the original manuscripts, you can just Google it. Like back when I was growing up, I couldn't do that. So, it was like I had to like really research to find out and it was all hush hush in the church community, right? And then and and there's a lot of other things that are just like now you just have all this information at your fingertips. And I just wonder like why like what is it that's driving Christians to still believe after now we have all this information at our fingertips that would in my opinion move a person away from that in terms of like a belief structure. But that's why we have the channel because clearly people still believe and Not everyone in the world's crazy, right? So, it's like what? Like, why do you still believe?

[00:46:13]That's that's where it comes from.

[00:46:16]>> Um, have you ever had anybody ask like, why do you not believe?

[00:46:26]>> That's typically when we start opening the text.

[00:46:30]I have a lot of problems with the text.

[00:46:34]I also have a lot of problems with the organized religions and the churches themselves.

[00:46:40]>> Um, are any of the problems that you guys have from the text uh like from the New Testament? I guess maybe you said that Mark I guess what what would it be like Mark 16 that talks about >> it's like uh like >> I mean are you gonna grab are you if you're a Christian are you going to grab a poisonous snake and drink poison.

[00:47:04]>> We can pull that up.

[00:47:05]>> Well, I don't think anybody would would do that.

[00:47:08]>> But it says in the Bible you can and you won't die if you're a Christian.

[00:47:15]Which is why we have snake handlers in Louisiana. I do think it's important before we start doing the biblical conversations to ask how much of a biblical literist you are.

[00:47:25]>> Right? That's a good question. Like you could say, you know what, that's just a story. It wasn't really Jesus didn't really mean you could handle snakes. It was just a you know what I mean? Like what's your >> I mean that opens up other questions like which parts you which parts don't.

[00:47:41]>> Are you a Methodist or are you a Pentecostal?

[00:47:45]Well, I I mean, I grew up Catholic and I go to a Catholic church and I've read the Bible, but I mean, if if you were to ask me what Hebrews talks about, I would say I don't know, but I know I've read it and I know it's in the New Testament, even though it's kind of short, like I' i've read the Bible >> and I remember some things. I wouldn't necessarily say I'm as much of a literist as you guys are, but I now >> he definitely was. I was I'm unsure.

[00:48:21]Cath Catholics.

[00:48:23]>> Yeah. Speaking >> as a former Catholic, it's a little weird.

[00:48:26]>> Yeah. Can you guys define the Catholic view of the Bible? Cuz like I'm like I believe that 90% of the Bible is true.

[00:48:34]Okay. Well, is it the is it the 10% that you don't believe is true, including the Jesus resurrection? No. No. 100% honest.

[00:48:41]I don't think I could tell you with certainty how much my dad or my stepmom or my family who is Catholic actually believed the Bible versus our our religion was more centered around the priest and and the the homalies that they gave at the mass. There were there were Bible verses read, but it was so much more about like praying the rosary and going to mass and getting the Eucharist than it was about the Bible is law that I don't know that that was ever a question asked that I could even answer just to be honest.

[00:49:27]>> Are are you saying that like when you went to mass they didn't read the Bible?

[00:49:31]>> They did, but not like back to back. It would be like here's a verse. Now we sing a song. Now the priest talks. Now we have communion. Now here's one more verse and then you leave. Like it just didn't feel as immersive and like into the Bible. It was more about the like traditions than the that's >> look I'm not >> from my memory because you said you go to a Catholic church. So feel free to disagree.

[00:49:56]>> I don't want you to take this as me saying that. I I'm I'm disagreeing with you because I've never been to a Catholic mass where it's like what you described. Um like they they don't read verses tip. I mean, I've seen almost full chapters and and they always read some from the Old Testament and then some from the New Testament.

[00:50:18]>> I mean, I didn't say they don't read it, but I don't feel like it was like >> we didn't have fullon Bible study, >> especially not during mass.

[00:50:29]Well, >> you had verses that like applied to whatever the priest's homaly was.

[00:50:35]>> Yeah. I I guess the issue I have with that is I mean it's not supposed to be a Bible study that there are several >> I'm not saying that. I'm just saying I don't know that the idea of the inherency of the Bible was ever presented to me when I was deep in my Catholic faith. Like that wasn't a question that I held or asked of even my parents. So, I don't know that I could answer where I think they fall on that scale.

[00:51:00]>> Can I ask both uh we're going to put we're going to put Adele in the Catholic category just for a second and just going back to your former Catholic self.

[00:51:08]So, do you two feel like in the in your Catholic experience because every Catholic experience is different. We have Eastern Orthodox which they I learned don't like Roman Catholics. Uh but uh like in the Catholic experience um do you believe that like the word of God is like spoken by God through people and written down or do you believe that like people wrote it and they loved God and it's God adjacent? Like what like what's the percentage of God influence in the Bible?

[00:51:47]Well, I mean, I guess it really depends on which book you're reading >> because Yeah. Like, let's just say New Testament >> books. Yeah. So, I mean, New Testament, New Testament is people writing down their experiences with God as he was here on earth. So, that's kind of your answer is the the answer is, you know, well, okay, I say the new the Gospels.

[00:52:12]I'm talking about the Gospels. The gospels are people writing down their experiences of God here on earth. So that that's kind of your your answer there.

[00:52:22]>> So is it just kind of like the whole like eyewitness thing where it's like, you know, uh a a a car hits a person on the street and the car drives off. You ask Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John what was the color of the car? Mark says it's blue. John says it's red. you know, but they saw that the car hit the person.

[00:52:44]So, it's like the person was definitely hit. We just don't know what color the car was.

[00:52:53]>> Well, the your original question was, you know, do I believe that it's God adjacent writing? Do I believe that it's people who are to write something? Or do I believe that it's people writing something because they love God? And I guess like my answer to that question is it depends on which book of the Bible you're reading. And then you said and then I used the Gospels as an example.

[00:53:15]And then you decided to continue with that example.

[00:53:19]>> And then I explained that the Gospels are people writing down what they saw like they're writing down their accounts or having people write them down for them. So that that's kind of my answer.

[00:53:32]Like your question is trying to define like an entire group of books with like one writing style, but there's a bunch of different writing styles.

[00:53:43]>> You don't think that God is like behind the authorship? Oh, we just got echo again for some reason. So, so you don't think that God is behind the authorship of the whole thing? You think that like there are certain sections where it's more just like eyewitness accounts.

[00:53:57]There's certain sections that are more like God breathed as in like what Timothy says, you know, the word of God is inherent, infallible, and God breathed. And then if we go in the Old Testament, I'd be interested in your thoughts. I don't want to present you more than two. So actually, I'm going to stop there. So you think like we've got eyewitness versions and then like God breathed versions and that there wasn't like an overarching author named God.

[00:54:21]>> Your your use of the word versions is wrong. It's not versions. It's It's which book has which writing style.

[00:54:29]You're you're trying to apply one writing style to all of the books.

[00:54:34]It's not which version. It's >> so I would jump I would So I think I understand where you're coming from with this. So I think where you're coming from and don't let me put words in your mouth. Correct me if I'm wrong, >> but I think what you're getting at is Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John in that order, as theological scholars and critical scholars both agree that was the uh order in which the gospels were written have a different approach or uh mentality, personality to their or style as you said, you said style, style to the way that they write. So for example, Mark is the human form of Jesus. Uh Matthew is one, Luke's, they blend together. John is like the God as the son of God, you know, son of God, the logos thing, very influenced by Pho type of thing.

[00:55:26]>> Well, I mean, in the beginning of John, it's like that, but all of them are their accounts of what they saw.

[00:55:33]So if hypothetically you have an account where like and this and this is where this is where I think I unders again this is why I'm asking this question not putting words in your mouth when you have for example the New Testament sources that disagree with like like who went to the tomb first and they're like definitive. It's not like, "Yeah, a couple people went there."

[00:56:02]They're like, "No, this person and this person and this person went there." And then the next gospel is like, "This person and only this person went there."

[00:56:09]And then the next one's like, "These two people went there >> and an angel >> and then they went back and then two people came later." So there's like these contradictory like um they're like contradictory accounts.

[00:56:24]What you're saying is that doesn't necessarily matter because the overarching story is the main thing. Is that what you're saying? Not like the details. Is that am I understand >> or like how do you reconcile that?

[00:56:38]That's a better question. How do you reconcile that?

[00:56:41]>> Well, I want to start that in no way is what I was saying.

[00:56:44]>> Okay.

[00:56:45]>> And I >> Sorry, I apologize. Well, I don't ruin the offense or anything, but I I kind of think you you knew that.

[00:56:52]>> And I'm not going to move on to how do I reconcile with this supposed contradiction that you said.

[00:57:00]>> Well, it is a contradiction, but I don't think that we're trying to be defensive.

[00:57:04]We're just trying to figure out what >> because those are my problems.

[00:57:07]>> How we can come to terms with what parts of the Bible you believe and why and which parts are different. And these are just we're just trying to put examples out there to gain some ground as far as where how how we approach the Bible, >> right? Because can I and I'll simplify it. If if if God had any influence over the writing of the scripture, my question is how much influence did he have?

[00:57:41]>> Okay. So, oh shoot. Hold on. I dropped my something fell off my desk.

[00:57:50]>> Are you there?

[00:57:52]>> Yep. Yep. We got you.

[00:57:55]>> Okay. So I mean I I kind of want to first say like make it clear that we're move we are moving on from the question that you asked and it's you said that some of the books of the Bible are they written in uh like did God literally tell someone to write them down? Are they written because somebody loved God or are they written >> Oh yeah. Actually I don't want to move past that. If we're still if you still have like an answer or a perspective on that I'd love to hear it. Yeah.

[00:58:22]>> You moved past it though.

[00:58:24]>> Okay. He was trying to illuminate examples of that, >> right? I was trying to say like >> like if X and Y it was scenario scenario driven.

[00:58:39]>> Yeah. I was trying to give a scenario out there to kind of illustrate the fact that you were because I was trying to understand what you meant when you said like some some books might have been like more witness versions of the of uh the record and some might have been more God just breathed versions of the record. I'm trying to understand like >> which books are God breathed? Which books are witnesses? Like how do we know?

[00:59:02]>> Well, I mean you can kind of tell by the writing style like you can tell when you read them like what the person's saying.

[00:59:09]Like for example, um when Moses got the the Ten Commandments, right, it says that God literally inscribed them with his finger. You know that we we take that and we're like, "Okay, God literally wrote this and this is the writings of somebody who literally saw and interacted with God."

[00:59:32]But then you have books like Ruth who are more writing in the in the way that you said where it's like somebody writing because they love God or I I guess I don't know Ruth's a bad example of that. The a better example would be Psalms where it's like somebody writing because they love God. But then you you said God inspired and I I think that all of them can be God inspired and those other things at the same time.

[00:59:58]>> That's an interesting question. And so, for example, oh man, I meant to write this down and I'm going to freaking Oh, I'm going to find it tomorrow. Damn it. Anyways, >> I don't know where this is going.

[01:00:09]>> Sorry. Um, maybe I do.

[01:00:10]>> Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Let me see if I Let me see if I'm understanding you correctly and I'm interested in this perspective. So, for example, it said like you just said, Moses wrote the Ten Commandments right in the rock with his finger. Now, some Christians would be like, "Dude, that's ridiculous."

[01:00:31]>> Interrupt, but >> it did say that he wrote it with his finger.

[01:00:34]>> It said God wrote it with his finger, >> right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. God wrote this.

[01:00:37]Oh, dang it. That was my bad. Sorry.

[01:00:39]Sorry. My bad. You misspoke.

[01:00:40]>> All right. Let me retract that. I'm going to edit that out. Um, >> don't edit it out.

[01:00:44]>> We actually don't edit anything and we don't So, anyways, so uh God God wrote in the tablets with his finger. That's pretty definitive. were like for example the flood rained for 40 days and 40 nights that is pretty freaking literal and it covered the entire earth that's pretty freaking literal >> now when we get into the Psalms where David is like if we believe that you know David wrote you know portions of the Psalms where he's like I am wrought out for you the wolves are around me the lions they dig into my hands you're like okay this is clearly from a person speaking from their heart to God this isn't necessarily God putting inside someone's brain write this. Some of those psalms are poems to God.

[01:01:29]Is that like would that be a pretty act like reasonable because Ecclesiastics was probably in the same uh sentiment where it's like uh you've got a a a person basically being a like they didn't believe in the afterlife.

[01:01:47]That's for sure. You know what I'm saying? like when you read Ecclesiastes.

[01:01:50]And so it's like, oh, this is just Solomon pontificating about the meaning of life, but it's not necessarily God putting that into his brain. And then of course you have Song of Solomon or Song of Songs, whichever uh version you're using, where it's talking about like, you know, the women's breast being like, you know, a herd of lambs.

[01:02:09]>> I might have missed that verse.

[01:02:10]>> It's good.

[01:02:10]>> I might need to revisit it.

[01:02:11]>> It's good. Uh but that's more like we're This is more poetry. This is more like people think talking thinking not necessarily like God literally telling human race what's up.

[01:02:27]Uh I mean yeah but I still think that those can be God inspired like as in God has some type of influence.

[01:02:36]>> How much influence do you think God had and how?

[01:02:41]>> Well I guess there's influence in two ways. I mean, and and this is kind of the issue, like we can't really talk about this because you don't believe it.

[01:02:52]But I'll I'll answer your question anyway.

[01:02:54]>> I can get inside my head though and put myself to a place where I did believe it. So, I can answer you from that honest perspective and then I will step back and give you my current perspective if it helps.

[01:03:06]Um so yeah, God inspired them one by creating us but also by influ influencing us like influencing all the people who wrote it and the question that you asked right is you pointed out two things you pointed out one it's like super literal in some and then in others it's like people writing I guess love poems poems to God. Well, I I'll just stick to like Psalms for that.

[01:03:39]>> Yeah.

[01:03:39]>> Um I mean, I don't really think that's a skeptical position.

[01:03:47]That doesn't really contradict the Bible or anything. Uh like I'm I'm pretty sure uh that one guy, the the big Catholic Augustine Augustine said similar things to what you said.

[01:04:02]I mean, I don't understand how that's like a contradiction to >> I don't think it's a contradiction. In fact, you know what's interesting is I never thought about it until this very conversation, but I think that's how I thought too.

[01:04:16]And I don't and I think that I could be wrong. People in the chat uh tell me I'm I'm an idiot, but like I think that that is a >> I actually think it's a more honest way to read the text.

[01:04:26]>> And actually, I think it's probably the majority way to read it. I think most people would agree with you that like if even you know as Christians that like when David was th like throwing his heart out he would he would say like everything is hopeless everything is hopeless and then at the end he'd be like oh but because I throw myself out to you I'm going to be saved that clearly wasn't a thing where God was like if God wrote was going to just like type a letter to people he would say nothing is hopeless chill the heck about I will have you at the end. You know what I mean? But but I think the fact that the poetry in the Bible um which is some of the greatest works in the Bible in my opinion is people having the emotions and it helps helps other people relate to the Bible if that makes sense.

[01:05:17]>> Do you not think it could be argued that God did write us that letter saying it's not hopeless? Don't be afraid by the end of David's psalm where he says it's not hopeless because I throw myself to you.

[01:05:29]>> Well, and that could be the thing where uh to your point that it's inspired by God because if for example David wasn't a God believer, he might have ended the letter and this is it and dashed himself off a cliff, right? He might he might not have been like but I'm going to get saved by God. So the inspiration of God, the motivation of God could have been the reason why it ended in such a positive way.

[01:05:58]>> Just I mean it could be could you know what I mean? It's like I don't know.

[01:06:01]It's an interesting thought. I just hadn't had that thought before.

[01:06:03]Interesting.

[01:06:05]>> Um so moving back I I I don't want to make your show boring for the people watching it because if we just talk to each other and we just >> Let's go a little further because I feel like we kind of have been scratching the surface a little bit. And we have Sterling in the box. Sterling, if you don't mind waiting just a little bit longer, I'd like to get a little deeper with Jackson. And then maybe Jackson, we could have you back again. I would like that, too.

[01:06:29]>> So, I do have a question, Jackson. So, like going to the New Testament because I feel like as a Catholic, no offense, this is my Protestant um snarkiness coming out.

[01:06:39]>> Yeah. You're Are you prejudging Catholics?

[01:06:41]>> Prejudging the Cathols. Uh so uh do you believe that like the book of Acts was literal or the book uh like which of the do cuz cuz the cuz you wanted to not talk about the inongruencies of the gospels because you have four different authors writing the same story four different times. They have like vast differences which we can start going through them if you want to but I don't think you do. But like do you believe that they're >> I want to go through them. It's just that you were moving on too fast.

[01:07:16]>> Yeah, we just weren't there yet, right?

[01:07:19]>> Is it like do you believe that then like in the New Testament? Like we could even take a benign book like the book of Acts. Like do you believe that the book of Acts uh was like a accurate historical record that was God inspired?

[01:07:34]Meaning that this wasn't like Josephus who was just writing down history to the best of their ability, but this was like a person who God was telling them what to actually write. Or is there no book like that?

[01:07:46]>> I'm sorry, but the book of Acts is like that >> like Josephus >> the a historical account like you were describing the book of Acts. Do you know who it was written by?

[01:07:58]>> Luke.

[01:07:58]>> Luke.

[01:07:59]>> And we don't know that Luke Luke. the the the pseudonym of Luke. Yes.

[01:08:04]>> Okay. All right.

[01:08:07]Ju just just for the record. You you said Luke.

[01:08:10]>> Yeah, I did. I did. It's easy. We'll keep it easy. We'll keep it easy.

[01:08:13]>> What does it say?

[01:08:14]>> Our our beloved Theophilos is how we know. But anyways, go ahead.

[01:08:19]>> What does it say in Luke 1? It it says something.

[01:08:22]>> Our beloved Theophilos, which is what then we also get in the second volume, which is Acts. He says the same thing.

[01:08:28]Well, I'm I'm getting at the where he writes he's like, "I've carefully investigated everything from the beginning."

[01:08:35]>> Oh, yeah. You know what? I'm a salesperson and I always carefully investigate. Just so you know.

[01:08:40]>> Thank you. Um, so the guy who carefully investigated everything from the beginning also wrote the book of Acts.

[01:08:47]So, the book of >> Would you would you argue that it's probably accurate without errors >> or do you think that it has errors?

[01:08:56]>> And how many errors are tolerable? Well, you keep adding new questions before I can answer the first one.

[01:09:01]>> Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. That that's my bad.

[01:09:03]>> It's okay. No, you you don't need to be sorry. It's fine. It's just um so Luke is like in the Bible, we we see Luke presented himself not like as a poet or like a metaphor writer, not as like Buster Rhymes or whatever. No, he he is a historian.

[01:09:24]And Acts, if you read the book of Acts, it doesn't read like something with metaphors. It reads like a historical account, you know, like it it says this guy went here and then this happened and then >> so on so forth.

[01:09:39]>> Agreed. Um so I guess my question would be because I agree with all of that. Um Luke is presenting in a way that you would believe.

[01:09:49]Um, in fact, he goes so far as to say blah blah blah.

[01:09:54]Uh, he even he even dogged on Mark, believe it or not. He said, "There's our theophilus who we love, blah blah blah."

[01:10:04]Wait a minute. Where does it say it where he's like, "I too decided."

[01:10:07]>> Oh, right there. Number three.

[01:10:09]>> Uh, verse three. I too decided as one having a grasp of everything from the start to write a well-ordered account for you. So clearly the order before which we know is Mark right is like I'm gonna write you a well-ordered account.

[01:10:24]Now that's being facitious right he maybe loved Mark and in fact we know because he takes sections of Mark word for word that he had Mark and we know that he takes Josephus uh word for word in parts. So he had both Josephus and Mark as source materials. He also had other source materials which is uh awesome that we don't have now. So without Luke, there's a lot of material that we just wouldn't have today. And because he wrote that section in between, like you know, after uh Jesus went up into heaven, uh that none of the other uh writers wrote about, it's really our only like account of that time period.

[01:11:05]But here's where you're going to get cooked. And I'll just give you a spoiler alert. The problem is with Acts and we won't need to actually go there because I don't have the uh brain power for it right now but read Galatians and compare it to Acts because the problem is you have an autobiography which is Paul and Acts is writing about Paul and Paul you have his sincere letters like he is just writing like this is what I'm doing this is where I'm going and Acts contradicts Paul in what's even going on with Paul's own autobiography. So my question is like how much of it's true like like you know what and this is what I would grant you before I because I don't want to set you up on a trap. Go ahead. Actually go ahead. I don't know if words your mouth >> real quick. You >> I mean I'm I'm not getting on to you here. I'm just explaining what I'm doing. Um yeah >> you said my question is and then said a different question each time. But um what I want to start with is you know in the book of uh Luke they had pulled up where he's like I'm gonna write you a well-ordered account.

[01:12:12]>> I guess what I don't understand is where in I'm going to write you a well-ordered account in Luke 3 or Luke 1:3. I too decided as having a grasp of everything from the start to write a well-ordered account for you. Where does it say that Mark's account was like bad?

[01:12:34]Um, it says um since many have undertaken, meaning Mark, many have undertaken and probably others. Mark probably wasn't the only gospel floating around as Mark, right?

[01:12:46]There was probably other narratives out there. That's an assumption because we don't have the text. But Luke says many.

[01:12:54]So a bunch of bunch of people have undertaken to compile a narrative about the events that have been fulfilled among us. Now I would believe that that means stuff about Jesus.

[01:13:09]>> Yeah.

[01:13:10]>> Just as they were handed onto us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.

[01:13:20]I too decided as one having a grasp of everything from the start to write a well-ordered account for you most excellent Theophilus. So it's an assumption. I'll give you I'll grant you that. It's an assumption. It's an assumption. It could be wrong.

[01:13:36]>> People are writing inaccurate accounts.

[01:13:39]>> Yeah, it could be. Yeah, it could be that Mark is accurate because obviously like like I said before, Luke takes from Mark and he uses Mark as a source material, right? So like clearly if you're copying someone's paper word for word, it's a source material. So he didn't think that Mark was like wrong.

[01:13:58]But he did feel it necessary to expand, clarify. What would you say? What do you think Luke's intentions were in having to make something if if a gospel is God breathed and perfect, why do you need another version?

[01:14:16]That's how I was going to put it.

[01:14:18]>> I think if if you knew about the most important event in mankind, you too would like write a book about it. Like you two would add your own collection to it. I don't think that him adding his own well-ordered account of what happens is him saying that the other ones are gonna do away with time and they might not be remembered. I think that perhaps he saw how important everything was and he wanted to make his own account because because he loved Jesus like because he loved God. I I guess you're kind of putting thoughts in Luke's head here.

[01:14:59]>> Yeah, that's fair. Well, to be fair, we have to try to interpret the different gospels, why they're different from each other, why they aren't completely cohesive, and why that might be as readers, right?

[01:15:13]Like, as an English major, you have to try to put thoughts into the writer's head to understand the text. That's part of reading.

[01:15:24]>> And it's assumption. It's an assumption to be fair.

[01:15:30]So if Mark and Luke disagree at times with plot points, is Luke just being more well organized or has better sources and does it and where does God fit in? Like was God like helping them write or were these people just doing the best that they could?

[01:15:52]>> So I want to go back. You asked me if Mark and Luke disagree at times.

[01:15:59]You're you're what you seem to be getting at is why do they disagree?

[01:16:03]>> Yeah. Right.

[01:16:04]>> It's a big problem for me.

[01:16:06]>> Okay. Do you mind telling me where exactly they disagree at?

[01:16:12]>> Yeah. Let's see here. Um let me see if I can find um Oh, yeah. Oh, dang it. Yes, there's a big one actually. It's an interesting one actually and it has to do with the fact that Luke also wrote Axe. So, he was trying to set up volume two. It's like freaking Tolken with Lord of the Rings. Um, so this is going to be interesting.

[01:16:38]Actually, let's let's hold that one.

[01:16:40]Let's go to uh Mark 165, but let's put it in context. So, let's go to uh boom. Let's go to let's go to three through seven. Boop.

[01:16:57]All right. So, they've been uh so this is they're going to the tomb, which we would agree the resurrection tomb scene is a pretty major like, you know, >> plot point >> scene. It's not like we're breaking bread here. I mean that's also a big one but you know this the tomb uh they had been saying to one another who will roll away the stone for us uh from the entrance of the tomb when they looked up they saw the stone which was very large they had it it had already been rolled back. So when So when they got to the tomb, we're going to talk about who got to the tomb, but when they got to the tomb, it was already rolled back. And it said, "And they entered the tomb, and they saw a young man uh dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed."

[01:17:44]Um he said to them, "Don't be alarmed."

[01:17:46]So okay. So So Mark says they come to the tomb, the stone is rolled away.

[01:17:56]young man sitting inside.

[01:17:59]>> Yeah, >> pretty simple. And >> and real quick, who who before you move on, who are you saying they is?

[01:18:05]>> Actually, we'll have to go back one step further. It is uh let me see. Let's see how far >> Good question by the way.

[01:18:11]>> Yeah, that was a great clarifying question. Let's go back to just 16 one. Let's see if it names them.

[01:18:21]Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Salom.

[01:18:27]So we've got three women. Mary Magdalene, mother of James, Mary and Salom. So we've got three women arrive at the tomb.

[01:18:40]Stone is rolled away.

[01:18:43]One young man inside the tomb. Don't be alarmed.

[01:18:47]We could. So actually we jot that down in our brains. I'm gonna trust her because her brain's better than mine.

[01:18:53]And let's go. Let's Let's rock to Luke.

[01:18:55]Actually, you know what I think I can do? Actually, hold on. Let me >> Yeah, you can.

[01:19:00]>> Oh, I can bring up multiple verses.

[01:19:01]Okay, cool, cool, cool. Okay. Uh, let me see if I can find where the Luke passage is. Uh, here it is. Um, here we go. 24.

[01:19:09]It's like in the 24 range. Luke 24.

[01:19:14]We're just going to go one through.

[01:19:17]>> We'll just go one. Okay.

[01:19:18]>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's fair because a second. Okay. All right. Three women.

[01:19:23]Mary Magdalene, mother of James, Salom, stone rolled away, one dude inside the tomb. Okay.

[01:19:31]Next up, Mark. Wait, Luke. Sorry. Sorry. Luke 1-8. 24 1-8. But on the first day of the week, hate to break two. That's going to Okay. At early dawn, they went to the tomb, taking the spices that they had prepared. They found the stone rolled away from the tomb. Same thing, right?

[01:19:52]Oh, dang it. We got to go back farther because son of a gun. We don't know who's there. God, this is good, though.

[01:19:57]And actually, thank you for hanging with me, Jackson, on this because um >> let's just go 23 1 uh through 24 because I don't know how to do this.

[01:20:11]Sorry.

[01:20:12]>> Why don't you just go to 23?

[01:20:14]>> Yeah, I'm just going to go 23 through 24. 23 through 24. There we go.

[01:20:19]Yeah. Sorry. I was trying to be cute with this. See, now you know that we're not like we we we're we're kind of new to this. We're still learning how to even use uh this on the screen. Okay.

[01:20:30]Blah blah blah blah blah. We're going to get to the thing. Who goes?

[01:20:34]>> It's a crucifixion blah blah blah blah. Loud voice. Sting spirit. Galilee. Okay. Okay. Okay. We're getting there. We're getting there. Here we go. Here we go.

[01:20:45]It might not tell us until a bit.

[01:20:47]Actually, we might not have been off. It might tell us later. Oh. Oh. Oh, here it goes.

[01:20:53]The women who had come from him. So, who are the women that had come from him?

[01:21:01]All right. We might have to come back to that one. We might have to come back to that one on who the women were. I don't want to I don't want to bore you.

[01:21:08]The women who had come with him from Galilee >> followed and they saw the tomb and now his body was laid. And then >> I might not name them.

[01:21:18]>> It might not name them actually. They returned and prepared spices and ointments. But on the first day of the week at early dawn, they went to the tomb taking the spices that they had prepared. They found the stone rolled away from the tomb. So that's consistent. Okay. Stu the stones rolled away. But when they went in, they did not find the body. So they went in. No apparent dude there like last time.

[01:21:40]While they were perplexed about this, suddenly two men in dazzling clothes stood beside them. The women were terrified and bowed their faces to the ground. But the men said to them, "Why do you look for the living among the dead? He's not here, but he has risen." I do wish that it says which the Oh, it was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the other women. So, it's like a a gaggle of women, but in this instance, there's like they go into the tomb and all of a sudden then there's like two dudes there with dazzling clothes. I mean, this isn't major, but I'm just asking like how much of this did God really inspire?

[01:22:22]Like, it inspires one like, you know what I mean? Is it is it like just same same? Are we splitting hairs here?

[01:22:28]>> Well, real real quick, I just I would like to point out something. I don't know if you know that you do this, but you make arguments. You make like anti-Christian arguments that aren't Oh, my phone's dying. I'm sorry, man. Dang it.

[01:22:44]>> Oh, no. Come back.

[01:22:45]>> Hey, can you still hear me?

[01:22:47]>> Yeah. Oh, you're cut now.

[01:22:49]>> Dang it.

[01:22:49]>> I think I might be losing.

[01:22:50]>> We want you to come back if you can still hear us.

[01:22:54]>> But we do have a next person up.

[01:22:55]Sterling Jackson, if you get some charge, come back. We've got Sterling in the Yeah, we definitely want to hear your thoughts.

[01:23:04]>> I I don't want to I don't want to presume what he was going to say. He did reenter, but we have been going for an hour. I don't want to leave Sterling on the hook for too long, but I also don't want I don't know how long Jackson has.

[01:23:17]Oh man.

[01:23:18]>> Let's pull him up for a second and see if we can get like a >> Jackson, are you back?

[01:23:24]>> Oh yeah, you can. You can hear me?

[01:23:26]>> Yeah, we got you. Did you get charge?

[01:23:28]>> We've got a little >> No, I just I just switched to my computer.

[01:23:31]>> I do. Okay. So, we we do have Sterling in the box and he's been waiting for a while, but I want you to be able to make the last point and if you can and if you can come back, you have made excellent points and we would love to have more conversations if if you're willing to or actually if when Sterling's uh done talking if you want to come back even then that's cool, too. But you you you were starting to make >> saying we make anti-Christian arguments, >> right? And then >> Yeah. What I was what I was saying is like what you'll do sometimes and I'm I'm not telling you like not to do anything. I just don't know if you know you do this.

[01:24:07]>> Yeah.

[01:24:07]>> Um you'll like make anti-Christian arguments that don't have to do with necessarily the point in question, but you'll just kind of throw them in there.

[01:24:16]>> And I don't know if you're doing that for the audience.

[01:24:18]>> Well, what do you disagree? I think for example the point the the best example that I have >> between Luke and Mark >> well the best example I have is um you know I shouldn't even have said anything because it's like off topic but um >> the the best example I have is when we were talking about you know do you do I feel like it's divinely inspired do I feel like God literally told someone to write it down etc. Inside of that question, you bring up contradictions in the Gospels.

[01:24:48]>> Well, we're trying to talk, we were trying to prove a point about one, how much of the Bible is true, and two, how much you believe and what you think about it. So, I don't think it was off topic at all.

[01:24:58]>> Cuz some people just get off this one really easily and they just say, you know what, God didn't really tell him what to write. It was just like, you know, they wrote what they felt >> and some he did and >> so how do we know what he did and didn't is our big question.

[01:25:14]>> I mean I I guess like one example is I mean didn't God literally tell Moses to inscribe the the Ten Commandments or not not inscribe. Yeah. No, no, no. I got that wrong. I got that wrong. But didn't God literally tell >> because now we're even because I screwed up the first time.

[01:25:30]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you know what I mean? Like, didn't God literally tell Moses like, >> "Go do this >> at some points?" But then in other in other instances, I I keep bringing up Ruth, but Ruth is is like a bad example of this, but in other instances, it's people writing um kind of inspired by God's working and God is working through them as they're writing it. And I guess Ruth is kind of a good example of that because >> by the way just just you need to I know you said that this is like one of the first calls you've done and you you need to do this more often. You're really good like you have >> you have very insightful uh points and you and you also keep uh uh hosts with um attention issues on on task. So I appreciate that.

[01:26:21]>> So um >> I mean I don't like arguing with people.

[01:26:24]I'm not really going to do this anymore.

[01:26:25]>> I think this is an argument. I think this is a good conversation. I don't feel like you're arguing. I think this is a good conversation. If we if you feel like we're arguing with you, we apologize.

[01:26:33]>> No, no. I just You said I should do this more and I don't I don't really think I'm I would like to because I I think it is like a lot of arguing, but I I just >> Would you come back with us though?

[01:26:43]Because the reason why is because first of all, you're very uh you're definitely well read. you have excellent reasoning and I think that what you do whether it's whether it's for us or not you give the viewers um a very uh well how do I say this like well represented point like they don't you know what I'm saying like because there's two sides of the there's it's like it's like Batman and Joker the only reason Batman's awesome is because Joker's like so good you know what I'm saying like like you're only >> okay and right now we're not labeling who's who. No. Yeah. We're not saying who's who, but I'm just saying like you're the the argument's only as good as the counter argument.

[01:27:22]>> As the counter. Yes.

[01:27:23]>> Right. And you and you bring some excellent arguments. I I really appreciate that.

[01:27:27]>> Well, we didn't even get I mean scratching the surface.

[01:27:31]>> You You asked a question though. I want to answer it before you give the other person a chance because I don't want to take up too much time.

[01:27:36]>> Question. Can you guys answer you guys normally go for about 5 hours? It's we're we're out.

[01:27:40]>> Yeah. We'll still be on. I'm sure if you want to come back in the queue, by all means. I don't want to take up any much much more of your time, but you're good.

[01:27:46]>> Um, you you had mentioned, you know, how it said like one account says that there was one angel and then another account says that there were two in the tomb, right?

[01:27:55]>> Well, I mean, I guess I don't really if one account said that there were, you know, no angels and then another account said there there were two angels, then there would be a contradiction, right?

[01:28:10]But one account saying that I saw one and then another account saying I saw two. I mean I I know you've heard this before and I know I'm kind of repeating like cleft nectal stuff or whatever, but it is true. You know it if you somebody seeing one in one story and then somebody seeing two in the second story, it it is like that's not necessarily a contradiction. and it's just one person adding extra details like you saying I I saw a like if you go to a parking lot and you say I saw a car that doesn't mean there's only one car in the parking lot right >> so yeah I would agree so the other verses for like if you want to jot this down and for the audience and definitely you know appreciate that the other the other uh account is uh Matthew 28 2-5 uh so that's what happens in Matthew we're not going to go there. Now, this is just if people are interested and they want to look and see like where what like the differences between all four are. And then the next one is uh John 2012.

[01:29:17]Then we're just I'm just talking to angels there. Then you can look at who went there, how when. But I definitely want to pick this up next time and and I'd like to talk about bigger issues like theological questions like, you know, I mean, we can obviously get into James and and Paul and, you know, James versus Jesus and all this sort of stuff, but actually James and Jesus didn't disagree. It was more like Jesus and Paul.

[01:29:40]>> Yeah, Jesus and Paul.

[01:29:41]>> But but let's there we could talk for hours and that's what I love about you.

[01:29:45]So please sub, if you subscribe, >> we have some really long and good.

[01:29:49]subscribe. We've got We usually try to give ourselves a couple of hours notice when we're going live and we usually try to go live at least a couple times a week. So, uh we have a blast doing this.

[01:29:59]>> But it sounds like you've watched us before. Do you have a username? Well, I don't want you to say if you don't want to say, but if you want to email us to watch for in the chat inquiry in the chat, I would love that just to know.

[01:30:12]>> Yeah. Inquiry couple atgmail. We we also email people that are great colors uh so that they know when we're going.

[01:30:17]>> And apparently Gracie really liked you, Jackson. She uh really wanted to come up and say hi. So, I wanted to give her that chance before.

[01:30:26]>> Very nice.

[01:30:26]>> She was really incessant about making her debut tonight. So, >> well, Jackson, >> I'll let you guys get to the next person.

[01:30:34]>> Thank you so much. You are awesome.

[01:30:36]Thank you so much, >> dude. Big W for Jackson. Uh that was a great conversation.

[01:30:41]>> Interesting. It was very interesting.

[01:30:43]Sterling, you are up next. Uh, I think I'm I'm gonna refill my water real quick. Uh, Adele's gonna tell the story of Gracie while I do that in >> the story of Gracie.

[01:30:53]>> Sterling, we're bringing you up.

[01:30:54]>> Story.

[01:30:55]>> I'm not going far. I'm just going around this green.

[01:30:58]>> The sink is behind the green screen.

[01:31:01]>> Big shock secrets exposed to all of the all of the watchers. Uh, our green screen is in our basement bar and the sink is behind us.

[01:31:14]So, when we have to go get water, we have to reach behind the green screen and do some contortions. But he did it.

[01:31:21]>> Thanks.

[01:31:21]>> Like a champion. And the story of Gracie is that she's old and blind. A The Gospel of Gracie according to Dusk Frame.

[01:31:27]>> A, that's great.

[01:31:30]>> Today she has on her summer dress. It's got flowers.

[01:31:38]Most awkward dog in the world.

[01:31:40]>> Yeah. All right, let's bring up Sterling.

[01:31:42]>> Sterling said Sterling said they're nervous. Don't be nervous. Come.

[01:31:45]>> Oh, yeah. Sterling, >> we're excited to talk to you. Thank you for waiting.

[01:31:48]>> Are and are you over the age of 18?

[01:31:51]>> Yes.

[01:31:52]>> Who would say no to that is my question, but >> that's not the first question. But, uh, Sterling, thanks for joining us. And, um, we're like, again, we want to make sure this is like a like a dialogue.

[01:32:03]Obviously, we have questions. I don't know how much you heard of last conversation, but you know, we're former Christians. Um, and we're interested in knowing like why Christians still kind of believe, but do you have questions for us? How do you want to start?

[01:32:18]>> Uh, sure. Yeah. Can you all hear me?

[01:32:20]Okay.

[01:32:20]>> Yeah.

[01:32:21]>> Yeah. Great. Actually, >> okay. Yeah. Just uh go easy on me. I'm not you I'm I'm used to like talking to people oneonone, not to like a couple and a group of other people.

[01:32:29]>> Well, to be fair, we have different strengths and we we don't try to gang up on people.

[01:32:34]>> Yeah. We're not getting >> we try to more like he knows the Bible verse at the drop of a hat. I don't always, but I sometimes have big questions.

[01:32:42]>> I don't know. We just kind of >> All right. Well, my name is Sterling.

[01:32:47]I'm 34 years old. I'm Roman Catholic.

[01:32:51]I've read the Bible front to back. I've studied uh studied the Bible and um I've taken some classes as well.

[01:32:58]>> Okay, awesome. Well, big W for uh reading the Bible front to back. Um, one thing that was super annoying for me when I was a Christian was that I uh was like, "This is the word of God." Like, how are people not reading this thing?

[01:33:15]You know what I'm saying?

[01:33:17]>> So, honestly, the fact that you're reading it is awesome, and I appreciate that.

[01:33:21]>> I've got a curveball for you if you like complicated scripture.

[01:33:25]>> Absolutely. Yeah. the I believe um and like when I read the Bible of course like reading the Bible is like one thing understanding it's another thing applying it's a whole different story and then when you start cross-examining it to other parts of the Bible you start trying to make sense of it it starts like revealing different things to you the more you study it like the Bible can't just be read it has to be studied and one thing that I noticed is that something that really puzzled me that I read the other day was I was trying to find this specifically I think it's Matthew Matthew Chap 27 verse 52- 53.

[01:34:03]>> All right, hold on. We're just editing.

[01:34:05]Actually, if you can get a touch closer to your mic, uh that'll probably help a little bit. Um okay, so sorry. Matthew, what was it again?

[01:34:13]>> It was uh 52- 53.

[01:34:16]>> Matthew chapter, what was it? Matthew >> 52.

[01:34:19]>> Sorry. Oh. Oh, >> chapter 52 through 53. Wait, >> so chapter 27. I was gonna pick. There's not 52 chapters in Matthew. That was the first test.

[01:34:30]>> You need a >> Oh, 27.

[01:34:35]I should actually have you on this through 53.

[01:34:38]>> Okay, cool. Actually, I don't know that that would work.

[01:34:41]>> No.

[01:34:41]>> Okay.

[01:34:42]>> Not when I'm holding the >> Oh, and I'm not sharing my screen. Hold on. Here we go. Okay, here we go. 53 53.

[01:34:48]Do you want me to read it or do you want to read it?

[01:34:50]>> Yes, sir. If you can read it for us, please.

[01:34:52]>> Yeah, absolutely. Um, okay. It says the tombs were also okay. And actually, what's the context of this? Where are we at here?

[01:35:00]>> This is this is actually almost in line with what you guys were talking about >> story. Correct.

[01:35:07]>> Is this right when he is he has died?

[01:35:12]What has happened before this? Actually, >> you can bring up the whole chapter if you'd like to to get some context. I'm sorry. I have to I'm I'm on the web page and >> Oh, no. You're great. You're great.

[01:35:20]Let's go. Let's go. Um, let's go 48 just to like give me a little context here.

[01:35:25]And I don't know how many verses are in this, but let's just go 57. Okay.

[01:35:29]>> Okay, cool.

[01:35:31]>> All right. 48. So, >> at once, one of them ran and got a sponge. Oh, so we're Okay. So, he's on the cross. Okay. So, at once, one of them ran and got a sponge, filled it with sour wine, put it on a stick, and gave it to him to drink. But the others said, "Wait, let us see whether Elijah will come to save him." Then Jesus cried again with a loud voice and breathed his last. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks were split.

[01:36:03]The tomb als the tombs also were opened and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. After his resurrection they came out of the tombs and entered the holy city and appeared to many.

[01:36:19]Okay. So that's then that's the that's the 44. So I do understand the context here. Yep.

[01:36:23]>> Yeah. So I this is funny like um um like there's a prophecy being revealed here.

[01:36:30]So like it says the saints were risen and were flowing into the city and that um and that they were like communing or something. Do you think that maybe St. Joseph was there with everybody?

[01:36:44]So like there's a funny prophecy being revealed here like um you know like I'll give you an example for I'll give you an example Jesus and this goes we'll have to uh cross examine another verse here in a minute to reveal the prophecy that's being unveiled here. So Jesus at the last supper he tells Peter that he would deny him three times before the [ __ ] crows or something like that. He's telling us in advance. He's giving us the prophecy up front and as prophecy would have it. And uh then the prophecy is revealed and it's it gets lived out.

[01:37:19]And um I was wondering so the the funny thing about the pascal mystery and the um the Passover is that when Jesus was a kid uh St. Joseph and St. Mary used to host the Passover in Jerusalem.

[01:37:38]um the same place where Jesus hosted his Passover, his last Passover with us.

[01:37:43]There's like there's there's a certain level of likeness there. And then when St. Joseph and St. Mary when they were leaving to go back to Nazareth or wherever, uh they realize that Jesus the boy isn't with them. And so they frantically look for him. And for three days, they look for Jesus until they finally find Jesus. and he says, "Don't you know that I should be in my father's house?" Where he's like preaching at the temple and conducting his father's business. So there's like there's a there's a major prophecy I I I think here like um so when when Jesus so when Jesus there's the likeness is is that the Passover is in Jerusalem. The second likeness is that Jesus was lost for three days. And um let's see what was the third and and the third likeness is is that Jesus's parents were looking for him. So and technically there's a fourth one where he's it's it is like a deeper hidden one about him conducting business in his father's house. But I'll keep it simple. So like so so Jesus so that was when he was a boy. So now when he host when he hosted Passover um he um >> which can I ask a question? Was that >> Sure. Was that uh Jesus when he got lost for three days, which by the way, apparent nightmare?

[01:39:04]>> Absolutely. Right.

[01:39:05]>> We were just riding away with our donkey and cart. We get away from the temple and we're like, "Hey, where's where's JC?" Oh my goodness. Oh, dude. We just like we left him somewhere in Jerusalem and they like can't find him for three freaking days. Was that John?

[01:39:22]>> That's a good question. Um, >> I think it was I I'm only and and here's my my only assumption. Just knowing why each of the gospels were written how they were written, I'm assuming John. I could be wrong.

[01:39:34]>> Yeah.

[01:39:34]>> Chat chat chat fact check me on this or we can Google it real quick here. Uh, Jesus 12 year Whoops. year old old in temple.

[01:39:47]>> It is setting blah blah. Dude, come on Google. Luke, it's Luke.

[01:39:53]It's Luke. This >> dog is pulling my hair.

[01:39:56]>> Okay. Sorry. Interesting. Okay. Sorry.

[01:39:59]Side note. Didn't mean to derail. Okay.

[01:40:01]So, >> you're saying that there's levels to this. There's like levels to this. Like Jesus was disappeared for three days.

[01:40:08]The parents were Okay.

[01:40:11]>> Yeah. Yeah. So, it's important. You could you can bring up the scripture if you'd like to. It's like I don't I didn't have to Google it myself. It was like I know it's I know it's like verses 40.

[01:40:23]you just cut out, >> but you were right. It was Yeah, I hear you now.

[01:40:28]>> Yeah, we hear you now. It's J. It's Luke 241-52.

[01:40:32]And you're correct. He's in the temple.

[01:40:35]He uh blows the scribes away because he's like 12 years old and he's like this uh and and and I'm gonna ins I'm gonna insert some interesting assumptions here, but you've got you've got a guy you got a kid who's 12.

[01:40:52]>> Absolutely.

[01:40:53]>> Whose dad is a teon, which a tecton was a person who worked with their hands that we translate it today as carpenter, but it doesn't necessarily mean a woodworker. It could have been like just like a day laborer with rocks >> or Yeah.

[01:41:03]>> Right. So, like regardless of what it was, whether he's making tables and chairs or whether he's like honing stone, this is a manual laboring dad.

[01:41:13]And you've got a 12-year-old kid and he reads Isaiah, I believe, so well that the scribes are like blown away.

[01:41:25]And so, uh, he's there for like a period of time, right, the three days. And by the time his family comes back and finds him, he's like, "Ah, I was always in my father's house. Of course, you fools."

[01:41:37]He didn't say you fools because actually he said you shouldn't call anyone a fool. So, actually, sorry. Um, >> that was projection.

[01:41:43]>> That was projection. Okay. So, uh, that's the Luke story. Uh, what's the where were you where were you thinking from here?

[01:41:51]>> So, yeah. So, like so he's foreshadowing here or foretelling here when he when he responds to his parents when he says, "Don't you know that I should be in my father's house?" He's foreshadowing this moment when he's on the cross as well or when he when he uh when he when his passion ends and he gracefully like you know dies. Um so the um shoot so the so the thing was here is that in the passage that we originally read where uh 53 um where after his resurrection they came out of the tombs and entered the holy city and he's talking about the saints in 52. the saints had the saints who had fallen asleep were raised and his resurrection his resurrection they came out of the tombs. So like I was you know there's like a likeness there. It's like there's something that there's something that the Holy Bible is there's a prophecy being foretold here where the the royal family is being reunited once again. It's like the same story as when he was a boy but it's now when he's uh you know older. And I was wondering what your thoughts are around that.

[01:42:52]>> So that's okay. First of all, couple things. I have to address the a obvious for the audience.

[01:43:01]This does seem a little bit like a zombie apocalypse, but the zombies aren't eating people, right? Cuz if dead people are coming out of tombs, >> I mean, it's a little crazy, but Okay, let's let's So, I have I have I have I have three thoughts. Three thoughts here. Thought number one is the zombie apocalypse thing and that's just because I'm cheeky. Thought number two is um like actually I lost my thought number two.

[01:43:35]So sorry ask the question one more time.

[01:43:37]That's my own people can say I need my medication but >> you're okay brother. Listen like uh like so it says like the tombs were emptied and it's talking about the sink specifically. There's also some like deep theology about like you know what Jesus was doing when he pat when when his time ended on the cross and um like how he went down and he was also preaching in purgatory or in Hades or whatever and he does like a victory lap.

[01:44:03]But um I don't >> but that's not in the text though.

[01:44:05]That's not like in the that's not in the cannon. That'd be like like in the Apocrypha.

[01:44:10]>> Sure. So like I don't really Yeah. I don't I'm not really too well versed on that portion of it, but I was just going based strictly off scripture.

[01:44:17]>> Okay. Okay. I do have my third thought.

[01:44:19]The the zombie thought, the zombie thought got me and I forgot my second thought. But my third thought, which is the major one, is this.

[01:44:25]>> The zombie thought, >> the major thought is this.

[01:44:28]>> If you are writing a book >> and and you're just one of 66 entries into a, you know, composition.

[01:44:40]>> Yeah.

[01:44:40]>> And you're like, "Hey guys, get this."

[01:44:43]And Tolken did this. Heck, he wrote the Sylmerelion and then he did this. He was You're like, "Hey, at the end of this deal, guess how long this dude goes into the ground?" Three days. Guess how long this dude gets lost in the city?

[01:44:59]Three days.

[01:45:01]>> Where's the prophecy in the Old Testament where Jesus gets uh lost for three days? Like, what? Because if you're writing a book and you have a self-contained prophecy, I can write a book tomorrow that says there was a there was an apple boy that was hopping around and he uh got lost in the woods for three days and then at the end of the story he gets like crucified and buried for three days and they're like, "Holy cow, dude. This story has to be true because he got lost in the woods for three days." You know what I'm saying? Like it's a little bit like where's the evidence? Like where's the evidence isn't the right word. Like where's the extra source outside of your contained thing?

[01:45:42]>> Yeah, I get what you're saying. Well, I mean it's like it's basically the um the pinnacle of the story is at the end here in 52 where it talks about the tombs and it's talking about the saints being risen. Um it doesn't ever talk about much about saints. It's like it's telling you a story without telling you it. But like so you know like you know the saints raising from the dead who who who what what saints were currently not here on earth or here on earth when that happened? It was St. Joseph and it it's it definitely it completes the conjunction of the family being reunited once again at the end of his passion.

[01:46:15]>> I think it's a great I think it's a great story. I mean it's a lot like the story of Joseph in its own book >> where Joseph has a dream and not St. Joseph the Wait a minute. Was the Joseph of many colors not a saint? Or were they both saints? I'm not Catholic.

[01:46:31]>> The Joseph of many colors.

[01:46:32]>> The Joseph that had the code of many colors. Was he also a saint?

[01:46:37]>> I believe they did give him saintthood, but I I have to go and look that up myself.

[01:46:40]>> Let's say the OG St. Joseph when he had his uh coat of many colors and he was telling his brothers that hey I had these dreams and basically the dreams mean that you're going to bow down to me and they get super mad at him and they throw him in a pit and then he gets uh eventually he fulfills the prophecy of the dream where they eventually bow down to him but it's all written in the same book so you're kind of like well okay Tolken you know we get it you you you you created a prophecy and you fulfilled it within the same book. It's like uh where's the like evidence? Now, if you were to say in the Old Testament, Isaiah said that Jesus was going to be buried for three days and raised from the dead and you know, his name would be called Jesus. Now, that's interesting to me.

[01:47:30]Like, whoa, wait a minute here. Not just that you rode a donkey because let's be honest, a lot of people rode donkeys back then. I mean, that's a little sketchy.

[01:47:39]>> Yeah. So, I guess the the big per picture here is that I guess like I don't know. I I just would like I just really wanted to share that with you guys and the people that are listening because it's a cool thing that's revealed within the Bible. And it kind of it kind of shows that um that the Bible has many things that are kind of like hidden underneath the surface that there's like more to the Bible than just like rules, laws, and parables. There's a beautiful love story and there's other weird things being revealed throughout the Bible.

[01:48:06]>> Actually, I'm gonna give you that for sure. Um because it's the reason why it's lasted, right? I mean, there are awesome things about the Bible. Uh like it's it's it's honestly it's it's here's the thing.

[01:48:23]>> I didn't know how brilliant it was until I until I wasn't a Christian. Like literally like within the last like probably two years, I have realized just how brilliant the Bible is. And it is it's it's like >> it's I would say mind-blowing, but that's not true because I understand how it came to be. But the the circumstances and the way that it was constructed is pretty fascinating to me and it and it is amazing. I I Bible is my favorite book. Uh Adele knows I read it more than I should. So >> Oh, you're a champion, dude. I like that, man. You're cool, man.

[01:49:04]>> Well, cool. We appreciate you bringing that up. Um, and we would love to have you back. By the way, hopefully this broke the ice so that next time you have like a cool idea or a cool like thought like that, you're willing to come back up.

[01:49:15]>> Yeah, we're not trying to chase you out if you have other if texts you actually want to go down.

[01:49:20]>> No, that's okay. Do you guys have any questions for me? Do you have any like interesting questions to ask me?

[01:49:26]I mean, I have questions about and I I don't want to I don't want to bore people with like the So, okay. So, like if the Bible has like these cool little nuances um where it's like we've we've intricately built these little layers, right?

[01:49:45]But then we have like some some things that are like major plot points that are like like completely off off topic. So like let me pull up a let me pull up some verses here real quick here. Hold on. Let me see if I can sure >> find you guys are you both um you you you both are like you said you guys are both Christians right now or you guys are just studying?

[01:50:09]>> No, no, no. We're both atheists. We used to >> both atheists. Okay.

[01:50:14]You're like, "Oh crap, actually, I'm out of here."

[01:50:17]>> No, not at all. No, that's interesting.

[01:50:19]>> Okay, good, good, good, good, good. I'm glad I'm glad that you came up actually because again, we we're we were former Christians. So, just so you know, I was a Christian for way more of my life than I wasn't a Christian. And I don't think I'm any smarter or better now than I was when I was a Christian. So, I've got no judgment on Christians. I love Christians. Um, we just don't believe in Christianity anymore. So, we had this channel because we were like, why do Christians still believe when there's kind of like this new evidence out there of like, you know, Christianity potentially not being real? And so then we were like, well, let's just ask people like why do they still believe in Christianity? And that's kind of where this channel came from.

[01:50:59]>> Oh, that's neat. Yes, I can see that.

[01:51:01]Well, like you know, so like so you you're both you're both atheists right now and you're trying to find some understanding in other people and what draws them to the church.

[01:51:10]>> I just said that the conversations are interesting because at the end of the day, even if we don't all believe in the same thing, I think that these topics shouldn't be off limit, especially in like a safe space to address them.

[01:51:24]Um, I think sometimes as atheists in the Bible belt, we feel like we're not allowed to talk about our deconstruction and where we are now.

[01:51:37]And um, >> I don't know, it just it feels very taboo. And so having a place where people can come up and say, I believe because of this, and we can have back and forth and we can have discourse.

[01:51:49]>> Yeah.

[01:51:49]>> It know the history. Well, >> say it again. I'm sorry.

[01:51:53]>> I I'm sorry about that. Yeah. So I think if you know the history well and you've read the Bible and or you don't really need the read the Bible but you should but like if you if you know the history of how like the church comes about I I know so very specifically the Catholic church uh uh because the apostolic such as whatever you call it and like if if you've gone through all the facts and you like you know and you've compiled everything and you can't like come from like a like a tangible reason to believe at this point like you really should just take a leap of faith and try to believe and just ask yourself to believe.

[01:52:33]>> Yeah. But belief isn't a choice.

[01:52:36]>> True. And it can be um I would always urge you to go to the Catholic church because it's like >> I did.

[01:52:43]>> They they I know I know it's I know it's I know it can be daunting and like they have like all the seven.

[01:52:49]>> So I did go to the Catholic church.

[01:52:51]Yeah.

[01:52:52]>> Was that's good. I'm glad to hear that.

[01:52:54]That's a good part because I I've watched, you know, I like the I like the Catholic Church. They had the seven.

[01:53:00]>> I was the caner at mass every Sunday.

[01:53:02]>> Oh, nice.

[01:53:03]>> I could sing you some eagle's wings like that.

[01:53:06]>> Man, >> she can sing well.

[01:53:08]>> My name is Adele.

[01:53:09]>> Good.

[01:53:10]>> My name is Adele. Actually, >> I actually came before that. Adele, >> she's the original Adele.

[01:53:15]>> There you go. See, God brought me here to bring you guys back to church.

[01:53:20]>> Hey, see. Okay, so here's the deal.

[01:53:22]Here's the deal. Now that you know what the channel's about, uh, we want you to come back, if you will. And we're not and we're not running off now, but but what I do want to do is like because because you're >> sometimes you kind of like >> you stepped into like a you stepped into an area that that we didn't mean to trick anybody. Like we're we're we're burning in hell for a reason. Like we're we're down here. So >> hey, we're not all the way down.

[01:53:46]>> We're not in the Yeah. All the way down.

[01:53:48]We're middle. So we >> This could be purgatory. We can be swing. We can be swayed.

[01:53:55]But uh but here so so can I I'm trying I I don't even know where to start exactly but I guess one of the places I'd start I'll start I'd start with like a maybe a a bigger one where it's like if the Bible so like do you believe that the Bible was like written by God? Like do you think the Bible like God wrote the Bible or had people write the Bible and he told them what to write? like what's your like level of like how much did God influence the Bible?

[01:54:24]>> Yeah. So, probably like 100%. The whole Bible is probably Holy Spirit inspired.

[01:54:29]I mean, I know that it goes all the way back to the Old Testament. It's like whatever BC for the Old Testament and then it was like recompiled or it was written in like 50 or 70 AD and then it was compiled by canonization. And I I believe that like it would be silly for me to think as a like very strong believer that this wasn't like 100% inspired by God through the Holy Spirit.

[01:54:53]And obviously it's written down man, but like it's if you understand the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit works through the works through prophets by telling them what to write and they write it down. And the canonization process is probably the same way.

[01:55:08]>> Yeah.

[01:55:09]>> Well, and Yeah. And that's actually that's super interesting. And by the way, the fact that you're interested in this stuff, I love this. I I I love the Bible. I love Bible studies. Um, and can I bring up a couple of passages though and ask your question because this these are some of the things that troubled me.

[01:55:25]>> I was like I was like, I'm I'm I don't understand. So, these are New Testament passages. We're not going to get into the weird like Old Testament slavery stuff. We're going to keep it We're going to keep it keep it fresh here.

[01:55:38]Keep it Keep it in. Yeah.

[01:55:40]>> Oh, darn it. Hold on. That's the wrong uh Let me share share my other screen.

[01:55:45]>> This creature is really begging for attention.

[01:55:48]>> Stop screen. Oh, yeah. It's good. We need a quick distraction while I share.

[01:55:51]>> There's a quick distraction. Say hi to Gracie.

[01:55:53]>> There's Gracie.

[01:55:56]>> She's nice. She's getting up there in age, but she's really kind. She's a kind dog.

[01:56:01]>> Yeah, I can't even hear her.

[01:56:03]>> She's She's pretty peaceful. Um, so, okay. So, this is Matthew uh 27.

[01:56:10]and we can read uh more or less in context, but it's pretty simple. And this is more more of those things where it's like I don't want to put you on the spot. So, it's like if you don't have a direct answer, take these offline and and please come back because we'd love to talk about it more or talk about something completely different. But this is regarding the death of Judas. Okay?

[01:56:30]So, Judas we could agree is like the main villain in like the Jesus narrative. Now, obviously, Satan is like, you know, the >> Yeah.

[01:56:40]>> Judas is Darth Vader. Satan is the emperor probably.

[01:56:45]>> Absolutely.

[01:56:46]>> Yeah, that's pretty much it. Yeah. He I believe the scripture says that it would be better he would not have been born or something like that.

[01:56:53]>> So, he's he's a big bad guy and and and his death should be, if I'm not mistaken, like a pretty big plot point.

[01:57:01]Like, >> villain dies, plot point. Batman kills Joker. We've got ourselves a story.

[01:57:07]Okay. Matthew 27, it says uh when Judas, his betrayer, Jesus's betrayer, saw that Jesus was condemned, he repented and brought back the 30 pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders.

[01:57:21]He said, "I have sinned uh by betraying innocent blood." But they said, "What is that to us? See to it yourself." The priests threw down the pieces of Wait, actually, sorry. It just says throwing down the pieces of silver.

[01:57:37]So, we don't know. I assume that might mean Judas, but I'm not going to put words in >> because it says he went and hanged himself.

[01:57:42]>> Yeah. Yeah. Throwing down the pieces of silver in the temple. He departed. So, that must be he threw this down the pieces of silver and he went and he hanged himself. So, so pretty pretty simple narrative here. Judas is feeling bad. He's like, >> "Dude, take your money." And they're like, "No." And then he's like throws down the money, goes and he hangs himself.

[01:58:06]>> Pretty straightforward, >> right? Correct.

[01:58:07]>> Okay. So, this is Matthew. Um, for anyone taking notes, Matthew 27:3-5.

[01:58:13]So, then we go down to um I want to say Acts. Yeah, Acts.

[01:58:20]It's 118 and 19. And it says, actually, let me go. I got to do more than 18 through 19. Sorry. Acts, what is that? one. Oh. Oh, shoot. That's right.

[01:58:32]Because Luke picks right up. That's right. Good old Luke.

[01:58:37]Okay, here we go.

[01:58:39]Here we go. 21. Okay, let's try that again. Um, okie do. Brothers and sisters, the scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit through David foretold concerning Judas, who became a guide for those who arrested Jesus. For he was numbered among us, and he was allotted his share in this ministry. Now this man Judas, now we have the context that talking about Judas, he acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness.

[01:59:08]So what >> so he didn't give the money back.

[01:59:10]>> So yeah, what is your thoughts on would you assume like I don't want to put words in your mouth, >> right? I don't want to like put words in your mouth, but this means that Judas didn't just throw down the money and run. He like bought a field with it.

[01:59:24]>> Yeah.

[01:59:25]>> Okay, that's interesting. a nice game.

[01:59:27]>> That's interesting.

[01:59:28]>> Yeah, keep going because >> and then it says, "And falling headongst burst open in the middle of the field and all of his bowels gushed out."

[01:59:42]>> So you can't in the middle of the field your bowels gushed out versus like you clearly got hit. So in one instance he's like throwing down the money. No. and he hangs himself. The next instance in instance, he buys a field and then he's in the field and he falls headlong and his guts burst out.

[02:00:06]>> And what's interesting is there's another issue with this. Actually, this became known to all the residents of Jerusalem. So that the field was called in their language uh dama that is the field of blood. For it is written in Psalms, let his house become desolate and there be no one to live in it and let another take his possession of overseer. So the minute so uh actually what's interesting is there's another issue here because uh the field of blood there's there's a whole thing about the field of blood too. It's like >> I can probably address the first point >> about like Yeah, the hanging versus Yeah, let's go there first.

[02:00:49]>> Yeah, the >> hanging versus the bursting guts.

[02:00:54]>> So, if you go Can you go to verse 17, please? Can you scroll up?

[02:00:57]>> Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Uh this one here.

[02:00:59]>> Yes.

[02:01:00]>> There we go. For he was number this one or was it the last one?

[02:01:03]>> Oh, uh 41. So, it said for the number uh let's go to 16. 16. Oh, yeah. Cool. Here we go. Brothers and sisters, this one.

[02:01:14]>> Yes. This is the scripture.

[02:01:16]So, uh, the field. So, I don't remember very specifically. Did the the Pharisees denied him? Then when when he tried to get the money back, they denied him.

[02:01:24]They threw it back in the ground towards him. I think >> say it actually says it actually says he threw the money down and then he hanged himself. So it says, "So when Judas his betrayer saw that Jesus was condemned, he repented and and brought back the 30 pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders. He said, "I have sinned, they said, what's that to us? See it to yourself." And he and it says, "Throwing down the pieces of silver, he departed the temple and hanged himself." So, he could have. Now, what I think what you're um suggesting, don't let me put words in your mouth, but like are you suggesting that he threw down the pieces of silver and then he picked them back up, he bought a field, and then he hanged himself and then he ran out and his guts burst out. I'm pretty sure they're talking in hyperbole. I want to say they're almost talking about hyperbole when you they said acquire build. I almost want to say that.

[02:02:17]throwing down the pieces of silver in the temple where he departed >> and he went and hanged himself.

[02:02:23]>> Like where do you get that from?

[02:02:26]>> So it's um well this is the thing about scripture like this. It's like it's you got to meditate on it to really try to find >> you got to put words that aren't there.

[02:02:35]>> You got to be cheeky but like I'm reading the words on the page.

[02:02:40]>> No. Yeah. No, that's what we're doing.

[02:02:41]That's what I'm doing. Well, it's so like I got to admit the Bible's very well written.

[02:02:48]But um throwing down the pieces of silver in the temple, even part of it.

[02:02:53]Well, this seems pretty straightforward.

[02:02:54]Let's go back to 16.

[02:02:59]And you're saying there's like Are you trying to say that there's a contradiction here or is like there's like a >> Oh, yeah. There's two different things.

[02:03:06]>> Well, in Matthew, he throws down the silver. Now to be fair, it says he throws down the silver and then he leaves the temple. Now we could interject there if we want to uh harmonize Axe that he threw down the silver, he picked it up, he bought a field, and then he hanged himself. But then the problem is in Acts, it says he was in the middle of the field and he fell head first. Which if you hang yourself, which which side of you falls to the ground first? your head or your feet?

[02:03:42]>> It's a good question.

[02:03:45]Brothers and sisters, the scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit through David foretold concerning Judas who became a guide for those who arrested Jesus.

[02:03:54]>> Um, sorry, I don't have a Bible with me. I'm going >> Oh, no. You're good. I can scroll down.

[02:04:00]I can scroll down.

[02:04:00]>> We can do any >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As far back and forward as you want.

[02:04:05]>> Let me know if I'm Let me know if I'm going too fast or too slow. So he fell head.

[02:04:11]>> He fell headlong in the field. And in Matthew he hanged himself.

[02:04:17]>> Acquired a field with the wi reward of his wickedness. That's interesting.

[02:04:21]>> Yeah. The pieces of silver.

[02:04:26]>> Acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness. I don't know. That's a good question. That's a very good one.

[02:04:32]>> Can I ask you can I can I do another little like brain twister for you?

[02:04:37]Another one if you're interested only if you're interested.

[02:04:39]>> Absolutely.

[02:04:40]>> Okay.

[02:04:40]>> I got this one thing I wanted to say about >> Oh, absolutely. Go ahead. Yeah, go ahead.

[02:04:44]>> So, what is this? So, like this is the thing. What is God trying to teach us through the story of Judas?

[02:04:50]>> Like I know the answer to this. I just want to ask you because it's good to be both of us.

[02:04:56]>> I So, I don't think that God wrote this.

[02:05:01]I think that people wrote this. Do you want to like Yeah, I think I think that um >> I think that what happened was Matthew wrote >> Okay. So So Matthew was writing to a Jewish audience in the diaspora. This is a group of Jewish people outside of Jerusalem. So during that time period there was a lot of Jewish communities in the Roman Empire that had their own little what they called eclelesas or like like communities and Matthew is writing to those people and that's why you'll notice that the differences between like Matthew and Paul are very stark because Matthew says like in Matthew 24 for example not one jot not one stroke of the law will pass away and Paul's like no you don't it's not about the law it's about believing in Jesus like you get these stark like contrasting things. James for example was of the Jerusalem school. So James when you read James versus Jesus or James or sorry not James versus Jesus, James versus Paul, it's very much like the law versus not the law. What we what we have here is we have Matthew writing to the Jewish community and we have Luke writing to the Gentile community. And what and what's interesting about this to me is that Mark wrote the first gospel. And so you if if you're jotting this down, definitely uh source check me on this, but even theological scholars will agree that Mark is the first gospel. And we know this because Matthew and Luke copy the text from Mark. So it's not like, oh, and what's interesting is like Luke will copy this from Mark, Matthew will copy that from Mark. Sometimes they copy the same thing from Mark and then sometimes they have another source and sometimes they have different sources. So we can piece it together and know like who got what from whom. But we know they were written in two different areas at about the same time. So Matthew and Luke are writing at about the same time. We know that Luke wrote both the book of Luke and the book of Acts because he starts off both of the books with the same entrance which is to my dear Theophilus.

[02:07:16]We don't know who Theophilus is. Um it's it's actually Theophilus is like a Greek term for like god lover or god knower.

[02:07:24]So it could be just like a hyperbole or it could be somebody in like the Roman, you know, authority.

[02:07:34]But Luke's agenda is vastly different than Matthew's agenda. Luke's agenda when he's writing is more about like this concept of like fulfilling uh other prophecies. It's more about atonement.

[02:07:47]Matthew is trying to fulfill like Isaiah and the Jewish um that's why Matthew's riddled with uh Jewish prophecies like in like the Old Testament whereas Luke doesn't really address that as much. And it's also why Luke and Matthew are the only two with the birth narrative and why they contradict each other starkly. Like they can't have happened. They both couldn't have happened. like you you you can't both go to Egypt >> at at the same time as like you know the other things that are h in fact it's it's actually kind of interesting if you want to get >> you can keep it here yeah we can definitely cover that we can definitely cover that next so Judas so there's a funny thing about Judas there's a lot of there's a lot of things that God's trying to reveal through the story of Jesus Judas which is why he's important to the story um so early on there was a bag of money that went missing. And we all knew who it was, they Jesus knew his heart from that point on that Judas was a thief. And when he when he when he has his feet anointed by the lady with the very expensive oil, once again, Judas Judas once again comments and says, "We could have spent that money on the poor." But like Jesus knows what Judas is really trying really trying to say.

[02:09:05]He's really just trying to have the money for himself instead of giving it to the poor. Like Jesus knew his heart early on. And the reason why those two points are important to the story of Judas is God's trying to tell us that um God's trying to tell us that there are early warning signs to people like this that like when you know somebody's got a problem that it's going to probably someday affect you also. And at the end of the story, of course, Judas ends up betraying Jesus. And so God's not only God's not only trying to teach us to be careful about idolizing gold and money and trying to teach us about valuing uh objects more than each other. He's also trying to tell us to be careful who you let into your circle.

[02:09:50]>> Interesting.

[02:09:51]>> Because in the end of the story, Judas ends up betraying us. So what you So what so what you're trying to say is it's not necessarily what it says in terms of the story or the plot. It's more what can I get out of it that I can apply to my life.

[02:10:12]>> Exactly. Well, there's there's so much hidden in it. is like it's like it's hard for me to ignore when you read the Bible, but there's there's obvious symbology throughout the whole book there when you see numbers pop up very often, whether it be three or 10 or 12 or 40 or 33 like or it's his signature.

[02:10:31]There's a signature in the Bible like when you see numbers, >> what is the reason? Okay, so like um and actually we do have we do have angel up in the box. So uh Sterling uh uh we we want to continue the conversation. We definitely will give you the last word here, but I have a couple questions. Um, if you don't mind. Um, what is it about the hidden spiritual meaning that's deep that defies all plot lines about the Bible that makes sense versus like the Cababala, uh, Jewish mysteries or the Gnostic texts or the Quran or any sort of mystery religions?

[02:11:09]Because when you when you read a book and you're like, none of this actually makes sense and when we have the historical sources, it actually doesn't like line up like but if I read it and I and I want something to be true and and not even want it be true, but like I meditate on it, you know, back in the Greek days, you do some drugs on it and and all of a sudden you're like, "Oh, that's the truth." You know, it's like like and everyone gets different truths, right? There's Catholics, there's Protestant, like there's Pentecostals, there's Eastern Orthodox, and and so whose truth's real and does it really even matter if the plotline doesn't even make sense?

[02:11:48]>> Yeah. Well, it's it's all something that's hidden underneath the text. And >> so, how do you get that information and I don't get that information?

[02:11:58]>> Well, yeah, that's a good question.

[02:11:59]Well, that's very the you know like when you some people read one thing and it's revealed to them. It's our brain like I don't know like it's just I I've studied it and read it so much that it just shoots out at me and >> I mean I've studied it a few times too.

[02:12:13]>> Oh yeah. No. Yeah. I mean, I don't know.

[02:12:16]>> It was just a good >> Do you think that people like uh like do you think that people get to choose whether or not they're Christians or do you think that like God makes them smart enough to be Christians or like do you think like what are your thoughts on that?

[02:12:34]>> It's a good question.

[02:12:35]>> That's a very good question. I love that question. That's a deep question.

[02:12:39]you know, like I have a very very sophisticated theory, which is like a whole different thing, but like um you know, I usually start this question off by asking you um do you believe in being reborn again? I know the Bible doesn't tell us that, but do you believe in being reborn again?

[02:12:59]>> I I do not. I believe I believe in naturalism. I think that once we're dead, it's lights out.

[02:13:04]>> No, man. We're definitely going to be reborn again. I'm telling you. How you know that? And I don't take a trust me bro on eternal life.

[02:13:11]>> Oh, I I could reveal it to you, man. How how much time do you got? So, let me tell you something like how old how old is the galaxy or how old is, you know, space in general? Like when the big bang happened?

[02:13:24]>> 13.7 billion years is all we can see. I mean, but but the universe could be eternal. I mean, we we if it's a big bang big crunch model, then I mean, it could be in infinity old. Yeah. Well, how does um I just think that there's a there's a life cycle going on right now and that we're just being recycled out.

[02:13:45]But it's all right. That's a little bit different than what we're talking about right now.

[02:13:47]>> That's a lot like Hinduism. So Hinduism believes that we're in the fourth cycle.

[02:13:53]>> Yeah.

[02:13:54]>> I mean like I I think that in the immediate time frame like we compost, we like recycle, we reuse the things in our life. But as far as like my personal life, I I don't know. My mom believes she was on the Titanic.

[02:14:14]>> Oh, that's >> I think that's a cool idea. I don't think that that can be proven. Um >> or disproven to be quite honest. I don't know that I've been convinced that reincarnation is a thing.

[02:14:31]>> Yeah, that's okay. We'll we'll cover that another time. But to finish the the last question you asked, >> we'll give you the last word. Yeah, for sure.

[02:14:38]>> The the Matthew one, I think that he's just giving us some quick details in short passage. You know, like it's kind of gross. I would I would like to not say, but like you know, he says he bought bought a field with his wickedness or his reward of his wickedness. So, I'm not sure. Maybe he did pick up the money and run by a field and maybe he jumped head first when he uh did that one thing to himself and maybe the birds nipped at or maybe his insides just gushed open or something.

[02:15:03]>> You know what my favorite version of that is?

[02:15:06]>> Dracula 2000. If you haven't seen >> you know what I'm talking about.

[02:15:11]>> I think so.

[02:15:12]>> So yeah, Dracula 2000 is like somebody saves him. I can't remember who, but he becomes Dracula. like he's he's the original vampire. I don't know.

[02:15:22]>> There he is.

[02:15:23]>> It could be true. You guys are wonderful. I'm gonna let You said Angel was here. Angel.

[02:15:29]>> Yeah. Yeah. We're going to We're going to bring up Angel. Thank you for coming in. We'd love to have you back. We'd love to have you subscribe and come back if that interests you. I think that we've just scratched the surface. I always think that when we have a conversation with someone who's kind and calm and thoughtful that I think we could do this for hours, but unfortunately like >> yeah, we got to get >> we only have so much time >> on a on a work night. But but let's do it again. Let's pick it up here and let's go even deeper. If if you ever happen to fall upon us, we'd love that.

[02:16:01]>> God bless you both. I I will I'll for sure be hanging around the name of Sterling in the chat and I'll be I'll be rooting for you guys.

[02:16:07]>> Thank you. Yeah.

[02:16:08]>> Awesome. God bless. Thank you, Sterling.

[02:16:09]We appreciate you, man.

[02:16:11]>> Cool. Right on. That was great. I really like Sterling. And dude, >> wait for Sterling to pivot. He thought he was coming into a Christian talk and then we like pulled the rug out. Like, we didn't mean to do that, Sterling. But you were a champion because you didn't like he didn't bat an eye.

[02:16:30]>> Oh.

[02:16:30]>> He was just like, "Oh, okay, cool. Well, okay. Well, then let's just talk about this then." And I was like, "Dude, yeah, that was awesome." Cool. All right.

[02:16:39]Well, let's pull Angel on up here.

[02:16:42]Bam. Angel, can you hear us? And are you over 18?

[02:16:46]>> Uh, hi. Yes, I can hear you. And I'm 26 years old. I'm over 18 years old.

[02:16:52]>> Thank you for waiting.

[02:16:53]>> Yeah, thanks for waiting, Angel. We appreciate it.

[02:16:56]>> Yeah, thanks for uh thanks for bringing me on. Uh, I think we we are meeting for the first time, so I should tell you some some background.

[02:17:06]>> I would love that >> information. Yeah. So, uh, I have an associates degree. Uh, I, in terms of, uh, my work, I work as a certified nursing assistant.

[02:17:19]>> Thank you for doing that.

[02:17:20]>> Thank you. Uh, and then in terms of my beliefs, uh, you know, my family was, uh, was Christian there. Both my dad and my mom were Christian. And uh when I was about 6, 7, 8 years old, I take the bus to the church. And then when I go to Sunday school for a little kid, I think, hey, this sounds like fairy tales. I don't really believe this.

[02:17:50]Uh and then I tell my mom this, which was uh naive, >> probably not the right, >> probably a little rocky.

[02:17:58]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I tell my mom like, "Hey mom, have you ever thought, you know, it sounds a little bit outlandish."

[02:18:05]And she says, "Don't ever say that ever again."

[02:18:09]>> Yeah, I can relate.

[02:18:13]>> I I I hear a little bit about you like uh you're Christians first and then you turn atheist. And >> uh I relate to your story but backwards because I felt like I'm atheist first as you know as as a little kid. Uh, and then so I'm I turned atheist when I'm about 6 years old. And then uh uh I I realized like as I turn an adult recently, 26, I started going to the Catholic church and everything. And then I realized like, okay, maybe uh maybe I should become I should become Christian. So that's kind of where I'm where I'm at. I'm atheist turned Christian.

[02:18:53]>> So how long have you been Christian?

[02:18:55]Uh so I you know I've always battled with faith but um I think the last uh uh six months so it's recent.

[02:19:06]>> Yeah.

[02:19:07]>> No that's I I I appreciate your honesty there. Um it is a challenge right because even when I was full-blown Christian I mean I went through times when I like believed 100% and then I went through times where my faith was challenged. Um, so I I get that and it is and it is and it is a I mean the reason why they call it faith for at least for my experience is cuz you know you can believe it. It comes naturally but then there's times where it's challenged and you have to push through kind of in a way at least for me that was my experience. Did you go through that at all?

[02:19:42]>> Uh believing despite being challenged. Yes.

[02:19:48]>> Yes, I did.

[02:19:50]Yeah. So, what brought you back then?

[02:19:53]What was the thing that kind of brought you back into >> Yeah. I'm always curious about >> and and I say back in, but you were obviously atheist for a while. So, like from from what brought you to uh Christianity then I should say like six months ago or so.

[02:20:07]>> Yeah. Yeah. So, uh I also want to ask the same question for you because we're meeting for the first time. Uh now uh what brought me back to it is um you know uh my you know beliefs are a tricky thing because our beliefs are reinforced by our peers, by our family, by our culture >> of course.

[02:20:27]>> So >> partly how they're formed.

[02:20:30]>> Yeah. And when you have a strong belief like uh religion is typically a strong belief and if you disagree with someone's religion uh that can cause conflict and so >> it can be very sensitive. Yeah. Yeah.

[02:20:42]Yeah. So, of course, you know, so I when I was a teenager, I lived in a Christian household and I didn't believe in the religion. So, conflict and then I run away as a teenager because of the conflict.

[02:20:57]>> Oh, wow. How was that?

[02:21:00]>> Uh, it was alone. I was alone. I was alone for all of my adult life. So, I don't have family. I'm isolated.

[02:21:10]But then I find my own cure group. You know, I I go find people who are similar thinking. But also, it's it's important to note that I live uh on the west coast of the United States and I travel all the way to the east coast because those because people because I find an online group on the east coast that thinks similar to me. So I travel I think 3,000 miles just to >> Wow.

[02:21:33]>> find a group that thinks similar to me.

[02:21:36]>> Now Now this is important. And this is really important because I'm I'm born uh on the cusp of 21st century. So now we have >> 100 years of cars. We have 20 20 years of uh home home internet. Yeah. Yeah.

[02:21:55]And then we have radio and we have TV.

[02:21:57]>> These things are like brand new. They all came out in the 20th century. So these things would not have existed or they definitely did not exist you know in my grandparents age or my great-grandparents age >> right >> and now um that's important to mention because uh because of my family right so my family have their parents and their parents and their parents and uh and the Bible actually goes back since the birth of Christ or the death of Christ which again is I I think I did the math. I think it was about 80 generations. So that's 80 parents having kids. Having kids having kids.

[02:22:40]>> So >> I don't know that it's quite 80 though, right? 80 cuz we're going back 2,000 years.

[02:22:46]>> I think I I did the math. Uh >> it might be because they overlap. I guess I see what you're saying. Maybe my math isn't so good. Alexa, if somebody uh has generations and has a kid every 25 years, how many generations is it for 2,000 years?

[02:23:07]>> 80 generations.

[02:23:13]>> She's thinking about it. Sorry.

[02:23:15]>> She said 80.

[02:23:16]>> Oh, 80. That was how many? Okay.

[02:23:19]>> She said 80 generations.

[02:23:20]>> Anyways, it's a lot of generations to your point.

[02:23:23]>> Yes. So, you know, I'm I'm one person.

[02:23:26]So, that's, you know, 80 minus one is 79. So, that's 79 more versions of me, you know, and if if the scientific perspective is correct, like uh I'm half of my dad, my dad is half of his grandpa, you know, he's 50% of the genes, right? So, uh, if if I'm nothing but the molecular structure of my genes, uh, then, you know, then that's 80 versions of me that, >> 80 iterations. Yeah.

[02:23:56]>> Yeah. Yeah. And, and a lot a large amount of those people were Christian or religious.

[02:24:04]Uh, and also, it's important to note, they all had kids and they all survived.

[02:24:10]So, they lived long enough to have kids.

[02:24:13]And here I am. I exist. Now, do I want to die? No. Now, if I don't want to die, then uh it's also reasonable to assume that all my grandparents, you know, shouldn't have died because if they died, then I would not have existed.

[02:24:33]So therefore, it it it sort of presumes that therefore you should continue to live because you shouldn't die. At least I don't want to die. Uh maybe some other people disagree and they want to die and that's their choice.

[02:24:45]>> Yeah, I think most people don't though.

[02:24:47]Like even like just like like by by nature of life, right? Like if you It was really interesting because uh we referenced earlier the conversation I had with my mom on Memorial Day and she said, "Well, humans uh have a divine spark because they don't want to die."

[02:25:06]And I was like, dude, if you put a pillow over the face of a cat, it also doesn't want to die. So animals kind of things with life don't want to die. But but continue like you're saying like Yeah. to your point, your grandparents didn't want to die. You you don't want to die. You want to carry it on. Yeah.

[02:25:26]>> Yeah. So I I I'm basically like I I want to cut it short because I do have a family emergency and I you know I I wish I can share this.

[02:25:33]>> Well, if you need to go, you can go and come back. We're good. We're good.

[02:25:37]>> Okay. So, I want to share this document.

[02:25:39]Uh it's just brainstorming what I wanted to talk about. I I maybe I shouldn't, but okay. Uh, I just want to say that there's some >> I'm I'm handwaving at some some evolutionary pressures that uh the Bible comes with and uh and it would be unwise to go against the Bible even though it's not empirically verified against the observable universe. Maybe it's not true in in that scientific sense, but maybe it's true in the, you know, 80 generation sense. you know, it's it's successful over time beyond your comprehension kind of thing because we're stuck observing things in the moment. We can't observe 80 generations worth of life experience. So, I think it is uh you know like like like Satan, Satan was very intellectual. He was very competent and then he goes against God and there's a fall of Satan, you know, in the background your hell image. So I I'm I don't mean to insult you. I >> No, no, no, no. Which we only get from the book of Enoch, by the way, which is not canonical >> to be fair.

[02:26:54]>> Oh, I see. See? Okay. Okay. I did love that. That's Thank you for sharing. Um >> that was the fall part, the the devil in Hades thing. We can we can draw that from Revelations as well. But anyways, >> okay. So, I do have to go. I'm so sorry.

[02:27:08]I do have to go.

[02:27:08]>> No, no, no, no. You go. You take care of your family. We're going to be here.

[02:27:11]Come back if you can and subscribe so you can come back later.

[02:27:15]>> Okay. Thank you so much. All right. Bye.

[02:27:16]>> All right. Thank you.

[02:27:21]>> Shoot.

[02:27:21]>> That was nice that Angel waited.

[02:27:23]>> Yeah. I feel bad. I I like I hope that there's not like a bad family emergency thing. I mean, I mean, family emergencies typically aren't good. It's not like, "Hey guys, we've got like a good situation, >> a good emergency, >> right?" Yeah. Jeez. Okay.

[02:27:37]>> So, >> well, sheesh, the box is open.

[02:27:41]>> That kind of went places. So, I just want to say on air, Lars, I read your comment. I totally respect that. But if you would still email us, we would still love love love to communicate with you.

[02:27:54]Apart from just in the chat, I feel like we have so much more to talk about with you. I know it's been a while since we talked about doing a special stream for you and we never got that email. Um our email is um our email inquiry couplegmail.com.

[02:28:13]>> Please I love that you keep coming in the chat regardless.

[02:28:17]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[02:28:18]>> But I would love to talk to you.

[02:28:19]>> It's just a little I think I think Lars thinks sometimes I can read it and sometimes I can't.

[02:28:24]>> Yeah. It's just a little off topic.

[02:28:25]>> Oh no. Lars said that um they he decided to stay a spectator.

[02:28:31]>> Oh, that's fair. Okay.

[02:28:33]>> And appreciates our offer, but he's you know, >> either way, which is fine.

[02:28:38]>> Lars is great. Yeah, we love >> Lars. We still love to have the conversation.

[02:28:42]>> Yeah. And and Lars, the last time you were in the box, you were like a few people back and we didn't even get to the people ahead of you, so we apologize for that. Um but at the same time, we did we were waiting for an email because we think that we need to set up kind of more of a special call, >> right? Even if you don't want to do that, we could still chat via email so that we have more chat than just when we're on here because we can't always sometimes we can read them, sometimes we can't. It depends on how many callers we have and how much interaction we have.

[02:29:09]>> But we all I always try to keep an eye out for you.

[02:29:14]>> Also, um we're good friends with uh Justin. I say good friends like I'm a actual I'm a I'm a I'm a real big fanboy of Justin at Deconstruction Zone. We're pretty good friends.

[02:29:25]>> He has a a a uh like a Q&A going on tonight. And so like we actually also are thinking about doing like a Q&A for folks that like might be like, >> you know, I'm not like like I'm not like necessarily a Christian or I've deconstructed or I'm deconstructing. I don't you know, like uh and just kind of people being able to tell their stories.

[02:29:46]If that's something that interests you and uh you want to you can put it in the chat if you're like, "Hey, I'd come up and talk and and share my story because >> it's crazy that he was called back to full duty as of May 2nd."

[02:29:58]>> Oh, wow.

[02:29:58]>> I hope you're >> Yeah.

[02:30:00]>> in a safe place and I'm appreciate everything that you do and have done, Lars.

[02:30:06]>> Uh you have a crazy story.

[02:30:08]>> Yeah, we love it. Yeah.

[02:30:09]>> But yeah, but if anyone wants to do a >> do a thing like that done for a long time, we didn't get >> Oh, right on. We can go ahead and call it. We're out of guests for the night.

[02:30:18]This was a really nice >> Yeah.

[02:30:20]>> I thought really great conversation. Um we'll be back >> I don't know early next week probably.

[02:30:28]>> Yeah.

[02:30:29]>> But subscribe uh hit the notification button and we always schedule it out a couple hours ahead so that I mean our lives are crazy. We have two kids. We have a D and D nerd that has to play games all the time. I mean, there's things going on.

[02:30:46]Yeah, someone over here. Uh, but we'll always be back. Great callers. I agree.

[02:30:51]Desk. Thank you everyone tonight. Thank you for our callers. Please come back.

[02:30:55]Angel, I'm wishing you the best. I hope everything's okay. And, uh, we'll see you all guys next week hopefully.

[02:31:02]>> See y'all next week. Thanks y'all.