The video provides a clear and practical breakdown of LED advantages, making complex lighting science accessible to the average grower. However, it mostly reinforces well-known industry standards rather than offering truly new scientific insights.
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Growing with my Fellow Growers #363: Answering ALL Chat Questions LIVE+ Open panel hour 2Hinzugefügt:
Green Stock join as always by an amazing panelist currently. He saved me from it being a Green Stock talks which I was actually considering uh just rolling with it and taking Q&A. But welcome in Spartan Grown. Thank you Jack. And hello everybody. I am Spartan Grown. You can find me on Instagram, Spartan Grown, all one word with no spaces. Or you could shoot me an email [email protected] and uh I can help you with all of your growing and lighting questions.
Hopefully we actually get some lighting questions or growing questions because uh the last few times we've done Q&A, the reason I've done like topic shows or we had a guest on recently was more so on the um front of the last couple times we've done some Q&A, it's been a little bit more quiet in the chat. So, I don't even care if it's personal life questions or if it's garden questions or if it's business questions or technology, whatever you're interested in currently. It could be about video games or hunting or biting. I don't care. ask questions and we'd be happy to answer them. Ideally, it's about growing cannabis and uh the cannabis community or cannabis law. Uh something I would just say I saw recently that I found interesting was um oh man, I should probably pull up I I shared it with the group, so I'm going to give the individual credit. This content creator is a cannabis forward content creator and they've actually posted lots of really good stuff. Um they're called Canaba Chem. C A N A B I C H E M.
canaboc and uh the post that I shared with the group was talking about how they had abstained from cannabis for a while while pregnant and they'd started pumping their breast milk after not smoking anything to like get a baseline and then they smoked a joint like a half gram joint and then they tested like 1 hour 2 hours 4 hours 8 hours 12 hours and maybe 24 hours after they consumed a joint of cannabis and the interesting thing I'm I found at least from watching this was she reported that there was no detectable levels of THC in the breast milk, which I think to be a good sign.
I'm actually not too worried about it personally. I think there's endockinabonoid uh deficiency syndromes and related disorders and disabilities out there that we're going to find out more and more about as time and uh research goes on with schedule 3 and others like Israel and Canada and other places that are researching cannabis more openly for the medical value of it.
We're going to continue to find maybe it's uh not so harmful and actually has lots of benefits. But I found that breast milk testing kind of be a little bit of an interesting video. But um there's a lot of I mentioned the Sanjay Gupta using cannabis during pregnancy um little special that I watched a few weeks back and it's it's something more and more in common place now because cannabis is becoming legal or medically legal and available so many different places. So I'm curious Spartan if you were able to watch that and if you had any thoughts or opinions about it.
>> I have not I have not watched it. Um, I don't know.
I don't know how THC could find its way into breast milk. Like, would it be I have so many questions. Would it be THC?
It'd be decarbed if you smoked the joint. Um, how about if you smoked for a month? Is there still content? And and instead of just one joint after substaining, uh, my other questions would be is how how is it that THC stays, you know, does it stay in that form the whole way? Does it stay as a in such a form that it would be able to even affect somebody else? I mean obviously in in her results she showed none at all or undetectable which might be low low amount.
>> That's what she said. There might be some and they tested it as a interestingly enough like a organic edible or something like a homemade edible is how they described it which I thought was kind of a funny touch on that experiment but um I agree with you.
It' be interesting to see if more long-term they used or like if they used a bunch and eventually um found like at what level does it cross the barrier or is it crossing as something different like CBD or CBN or some other canabonoid entirely um down the chain or up the chain and so really interesting research there and curious if anybody in the chat has any comments or questions about that or anything else.
>> There's one comment in chat here from Buckaroo Bandit 138 says howdy howdy.
What are your general thoughts on using CH lights 3200K? I had considered LED, but I had a hard time switching Spartan.
Let's hear an elevator pitch. Thanks.
Well, my first elevator pitch would be um you're not going to get the the the biggest one you're going to hear for LEDs is efficiency, right? And where you lose efficiency with the CH and the metal hallides and the HPS is its heat.
That's throwing IR. It's throwing heat off onto your plants. And um I think it's way more efficient to use a heater to throw heat into your room than to run it through a light. And um I don't think I know it is. And the same goes with light. Like if if you get an LED light over your CH, you're going to get more light output per watt of energy that you're pulling out of the wall. And you're going to see differences as far as HVAC because you're not throwing so much heat into the room as you were before. um there's going to be a little bit of energy savings there as well. Um and then the big thing now with the modern le LEDs is most I'm not even going to say just with you know Grandmaster LEDs of course that's the one I would recommend but most modern ones have lines with spectrum tuning in some way like you you're able to change the spectrum to make it more ideal for that stage of plant growth or whatever you're trying to do. You can crop steer with with light. You can hit them with blue light to keep them more short and less stretchy. Or you can hit with red light to get them to stretch. Um you can there there's so many different strategies you can do with the ability to take control of your light spectrum that you can't do with a fixed light. Um, and then another thing that I I I find really important that a lot of people don't talk about is that if you're using uh a uh HPS or CH and you dim it, like it's mostly home growers. You don't really see that in commercial growers. They usually just hang them higher the ceiling and let them rip. But in a home grow, if you're dimming them at all, you're you're changing the spectrum. It's not the same spectrum in as the spectrum that is advertised.
So you unless you have a spectrometer in there or some way to measure that, you will have no way of knowing what that change is is like until you see the results in your plants, I suppose. So that's or as and then as as they uh you know, you have to change the bulbs, which is another pain in the butt. It's not hard when you're just doing one or two, I suppose. Um, but it's the degradation that's an issue. Um, a lot of growers will let them go for a year, two years, >> hidden expense. I mean, one grower I talked to who was pretty honest about it said if they changed them every 6 months, they noticed that there was an improvement, but for their like cost average, they end doing ended up doing every year because it wasn't enough of a hit. But they knew and they're like, "Man, I really did like when I could afford to buy those fresh ones every six months when things were good in the market." and they were able to make that happen. And so I want to take a second to uh welcome in Tao and then we'll get back to Buckaroo Bandit 138's question about the CH lighting. But Tao, welcome.
>> Hello Jack Spar and everyone in chat.
I'm the American one on the YouTube and the American one_with on the IG. I'm glad I made it. Happy Mother's Day to all the moms and yeah, I'm glad I'm here.
>> Cheers to that. And uh shout out to the new mom in my group of plants, which is the Death Star. I got two of them rooted now. So I've got a mom for myself and I'll have at least one ideally if it stays nice and healthy to get going to the open source genetics alliance for whoever's the first on the list over there. And uh I'm going to make sure that my own mother the it's got really nice healthy roots. And funny enough, it's from the cloner. I just kept kept trying kept trying and second or third wave finally got one or two that have rooted uh really strong. I got a bunch more GG4s coming down the line and a bunch of people are going to get contacted. So, uh, keep your eye out on your emails because if you don't get back to me within a week, you're going to lose your spot. You're going to get bumped down the list. So, I want to make sure that everybody gets their chance.
But, uh, yeah, you got to get back to those emails and make sure that we're getting the, uh, shipments reimbured so I can get them to you as fast as possible. I haven't figured out I I'm going to in the near future, maybe months, maybe weeks, how to uh adjust the shipment for the people that are requesting slips because I have had people request unrooted clones or just cuts and um so I'm going to try and accommodate those people as well. So if you want to be one of those people, you can reail me and say, "Hey, I want to be on the slips list, but that um I don't want to lose your spot in line, but I could just change it out for the rooted thing." So, you'll keep your spot in line, but I can adjust the uh shipment methods and it might bring the cost down a bit in terms of uh weight and size of the package to get it there to you. But to bring to up to speed on Buckaroo Bandit 138's question, they said, "Howdy, howdy. What are your general thoughts on using CH lights? 3200 Kelvin uh which is just the spectrum. Had considered LED but have had a hard time switching. Spartan, let's hear an elevator pitch. Thanks." and Spartan gave his elevator pitch, but I'm curious if Tao has any thoughts before I weigh in on that one.
>> I only use CH as a vegite for a while.
Um, I have heard many people uh extol its benefits for like one H one highpress sodium and one um metal hallide of some sort in a flower area, which probably really did good. But I I'm I heard most of what Spartan said and I uh I think LED is now the way to go really. I mean um especially if you can if you like the HPS, you could turn the new GML to HPS spectrum. So you could probably get close to what you were experiencing with a regular HPS light at like less cost.
So, uh, but yeah, I'm not really one to speak on, uh, if CH is uh, how good they are. No, I only use them for veg. So, >> well, I think it's important distinction to make that. He said, I think I'm pretty sure he said ceramic metal hellight. So, that's pretty good one to flower under. I mean, gives you >> it's like a full spectrum. It's like it's pretty close.
>> Phillips developed it and they were calling it an light emmitting ceramic.
LEC was what they patented it, but it's just a ceramic metal hallide. And a ceramic metal hallid is like a white light compared to a metal hallide which is a blue light or a HPS which is like a red light. Uh you'll see them if you take a photo under them. The HPS's have a red hue or an orange like when Noah comes on.
>> You'll see that orang-ish hue but it's the redder spectrum that's showing through and causing that orange like my shirt. And then the metal hallides kind of have like a white blue. It's it's a little bit less noticeable but you can definitely tell. And the plants don't look pure green. They can almost have like a purple hinge to them even under veg. Um, so they kind of look a little off. It almost reminds me of the LEDs when they first started. They had blurpal which was red and blue LEDs which was very difficult to diagnose any plant health issues because the color wasn't white. So once CH came around, it was like the first white light that was actually really good in my opinion because although I started with HPS and so did many others, it was the thing from the 70s all the way till now and it still works. uh metal hallid still works and they can still grow plants very well. There's a lot of heat and some inefficiencies. The newer ones are actually fairly close in efficiency to some of the lower- end LEDs admittedly.
That's why they're still run and uh it's a cost thing, but I think actions speak louder than words. And you can look at my own personal grow and I went from having a CH to an LED and I've stuck with the LED. I haven't gone back and I still had I might even still I think I still do have my ceramic metal halli in a box like bagged up because I planned to when I got a bigger space to like expand my grow and then never ended up uh well I kind of did expand my grow but I didn't end up using that light. I would just add more LEDs in there. So that that should kind of tell you because I did full cycles under the ceramic metal hallide and while it was probably overclocked for my space um I will say the plants can be extremely healthy if you have the right distance the right environment. the plants will look like they are literally made out of leather, like they're so thick. I do think that potentially there's something special about that spectrum. Maybe it's part of the infrared, maybe it's part of the UV. Um, some of them, from what I understand, going through glass takes a lot of UV out. So, whether it's going through HPS or a ceramic metal heli or just the glass like in a hooded uh vented um system, which many or some of them are. mine was open, but um from what I understand, you're taking a ton of the UV out of it just by the fact that the bulb is glass. And so I don't know if that was the factor, but the plants seemed really healthy and happy.
I think in flower because I was overclocked. I had like 300 watts when I needed like 180 200 for my space. Um my plants struggled and foxtailed a little bit, but I did have some runs where I kept the distance high enough and I had the air flow moving enough that I grew some [ __ ] killer [ __ ] in there with that stuff. And to this day, like if I had to go back, if they're like, "Jack, you can't use LEDs." Hypothetical world.
Uh, you have to use some other lighting technology. I would choose a ceramic metal hallide over an HPS or a metal halloid or a combination, which people did. They called it checkerboard pattern. They'd go HPS, metal halli, HPS, metal halloid. I think folks rightfully felt metal hallide brought on great tarpin expressions, great profiles, but it yielded less. Where the HPS brought on bigger yields, but it might not have the same tarpine expression. There's still a breeder out there to this day who claims metal highlight has the best turping expression. So he keeps at least like one light of that for some of their strains, but uh they're kind of a shyer and renamer and I won't give them too much credit for it. But it just uh some of the stuff that they've said has come true in terms of the actual how the plant works and operates and I've seen it in my own garden in a variety of ways. So I do want to give some credit to the fact that maybe there is something special about these spectrums, whether it's a plasma or a ceramic metal halloid or a metal halli or an HPS. But again, actions speak louder than words.
I'm actually using LED across my grow.
And since I switched, I found it was easier to bring out the purples, which I was chasing in certain plants that are supposed to go purple, like velvet punch. I was hoping to get more purple.
And I did. Even like the jack spike punch, which was one of the last plants I grew under the metal or ch um that had pink hues to the resin, which was actually very beautiful. And I think that if I would have grown it under the same LED setup that I have right now, it would have come out much more purple just because easier to control the environment. And I was kind of gooseing a bit by pumping 440 nmter blue which is known to increase tarpine expression as well as bring out anthsy production. And so um as soon as I switched over and I modified my light a little bit by adding some rings around it that added more red and more blue to try and get the best possible potential out of the LED cuz when LEDs first started coming on the scene outside of Lurle, there was COBS and then there was the bars. So I actually I feel like sort of wrongfully went for the Cobb because everything else has gone to bars since then. and it's more even distribution. I was kind of under like I really liked my LEC. I like that one strong point of light that would come down really hard and and make the plants kind of get that intense light. So I like uh there was a guy called like the um pirate something. He had like these cannon like giant cob lights that were >> Oh yeah, it's awesome. What was his name?
>> Oh man.
>> Out of Colorado.
>> Something. It had like a pirate themed name but >> yes, I forget. No. Damn. He was a good dude.
>> They went out of business though, I'm pretty sure. And it was Black Sale.
>> Black Sale.
>> Black Sale. Yes.
>> Black Sale LEDs. And so there was custom people that would like rapid LED had like Cobb pucks you could like buy and put on a heat sink yourself. I bought mine from Timber Grow Lights which was a local one in San Diego. And I've been happy with that light. It's been running for years. It's y extremely well. Um because my grow tent was fairly small.
It didn't matter as much. Two cobs versus like a couple bars. It was just better than my overclocked light emmitting ceramic. Long story short, I guess that I love my light emmitting ceramic and I think that it can be great. Brandon Rust, when I first met him in San Diego, his whole grow was all LEC or um CH that, you know, ceramic metal halli bulb style with that nice white light. He flowered and veged under it and his plants always looked beautiful and they tested insanely high for turpps. He had like an 11 or 12% tarpine, black lime reserve or something. I think it was like 17% THC, 12% turppines or something insane. And um still some of the best, you know, buds that I've seen grown around here.
and it's um under that bulb. So, I'm a believer in it. But at the same time, if I was going to go buy a light now today, um I'd be picking up an LED. If you already have ceramic metal highlight and you want to run them for a couple years or a couple more grows until you can justify the cost of upgrading or switching to an LED, then I think that is fine. But in terms of going out and buying one new or even like used off of somebody uh in the secondhand market, a lot of reasons to avoid that from pests to molds to uh malfunctioning equipment to old bulbs that you don't know how much run time is on them. You can't really trust if somebody said I'd only use them for one run, but really they use them for two years.
But you can never know. Sometimes you can get some good deal. I've heard some people tell me some crazy deals they've gotten because there's a lot you have to remember there's always people out there that are chasing the next best thing.
So, there's people that will buy whatever the newest, best, greatest thing is, and when the next thing comes out, that last thing they bought four months ago, they're selling for half off or something like that on on marketplace cuz they want to bankroll the next thing. So, you can get lucky and find some good stuff, too.
There used to be like a thing, I think it was called like Tony's Used Grow Supply or something like that, and it was like just some guy who bought and sold used grow equipment, and it was a bunch of that like lightly used stuff.
And uh nothing against that especially for the cheap home grower out there to get in lower barrier of entry as long as it's not you know it's tested and clean and uh certifiably working cuz um some stuff is not like even LEDs like um going into right now I've seen like spider farmers and stuff where like a whole strip will go out like just black out the rest of the light still work maybe two or three of the a wire got shorted or something and a couple of the strings of lights go out and I think they're based out of China So customer service is going to be a little bit slower turnaround potentially. Uh maybe if you got it on a website locally or something like that, you could have some sort of a refund and things like that, but then your your plants don't know, you know, they don't care about the refunds and the turnaround times. They they just want to have a reliable light.
And it's nice to go with a brand that you've seen other people have success with for years and years. Even then, there's still a lemon every now and again. But um having somebody that's like more local to you that has a little bit of reassurance is a good thing because your light is the heartbeat of the grow really. I mean it it's what is powering most of it. The nutrients and stuff are like supplementary. The environment is a huge part but that light without it the plant literally cannot survive or grow. That's why is another big tip that I don't know if I've said before on air, but when you do an upgrade, especially for the light, uh I keep the old thing that I'm replacing because if that light goes out, it gives me a backup. It's not perfect, but you know, it'll work until I can get light back on canopy. So, uh if you already have a backup, then you can throw away the one you've been holding on to. But, uh yeah, I would I I tend to hold on to the thing I'm replacing if I have room to like put it somewhere and store it, especially when it comes to lights. I've got I've got more lights than I need for sure, but I won't be without light.
I mean, I've got my backup 315, like I said, and I'm I'm in a 3x3 flower right now. So, at this point, if something ever happened to my LED, I'm going to keep that one in reserve. And uh it's not really taking up too much space in a nice sealed up area. And so, I'm happy to hang on to it. Not like it it needs to go anywhere. It's been hanging out for a couple years at this point. I can't even remember when I got that timber grow like CO, but it's been rocking for years. I should probably at this point upgrade um after I get my first couple crops in at the new spot. I haven't flowered yet. I've been just taking cuts and cuts and cuts getting as many of these uh GG4s and Death Stars rooted as possible to try and get them out to as many people as possible. But it's going to get to the point where I'm going to have so many cuts off the top that the bottoms are just going to be bare. So, I'm going to probably flip them here very soon. Uh, now that I've got the Death Star, that was the major uh, sticking point was I wanted to have Death Star backed up before I flip the flower. And now I'm just evening out the canopy and I'm going to let them rip.
So, we'll have a probably slow down for a little bit on the Open Source Genetics Alliance. But that being said, anybody who's gotten them in the meantime is uh, encouraged to and feel free to continue to share them around and let people know, hey, I got it and I'm happy to continue from my end to because it's not just the All Jack operation. That's why it's called Open Source Genetics Alliance, not the Jack Greenstalk Genetics Alliance. We want everybody involved and no barrier to entry. You just got to email, ask, and you'll be as long as you're in the US currently, working to expand it internationally eventually. But, uh, that's all we really want or requests. But I'm curious, uh, if you guys have seen any other questions so far. It seems mostly like people just cheersing it up, saying what up everybody. Hello. Hello. So, cheers to all the great people in the chat. What up, Grow? Common guests.
Maybe you'll jump in at the second half when we open up the panel for the uh open panel hour two. So guys stick around if you want to see some cool gardens. I know he maybe Raptor Grow, maybe Artman, who knows. We got a lot of great people with us currently. Supreme Grape, lots of great people. So cheers to all of you guys. Caveman, he's another one who jumps in a lot. He's got Caveman Seeds. Shout out to Caveman Seeds. He's a breeder who puts together a lot of really cool what I would call like old school or like some of my favorite generation stuff like from AK-47s to Afghans and different like cushy type stuff like from the uh '9s 2000s where I feel like a lot of the best stuff is uh coming from in the backbones of the modern genetics today.
Collective Marijuana says, "Still got a 10-year-old HPS, but upgraded and got two Medic Grow fold 8 LEDs, which I think are fantastic lights." Dr. MJ reviewed those a while back, and they uh they're a bar style light. I think they have eight bars, and I think they cover like a 4x4 or 5x5 very uniformly.
>> Yeah, the bar I mean, the bar light was like a natural progression on how to push the hardware to be more efficient.
It was, okay, we we've gotten to where we, you know, almost to the wall on efficiency hardware-wise. So, now you had to rethink the design, like, okay, now what we can do is slam these lights closer, but actually physically spread out these points of light more evenly.
Uh, so we can slam them really close to the canopy and then dim them down and get but still get the same light intensity.
So, like a lot of people think that, you know, if I have a, you know, whatever 800 or a 1000 watt HPS running in my grow and I put I go in there, I throw a 1000 watt LED in there and but it's more efficient. So, I can run it at we'll say 800 watts and be just as strong as the 1000 watt. No, which is really the thing is really leverage the design of those bar lights and now you can take that light and instead of having it 3 ft above your canopy, you can have it 6 to 12 in above your canopy and then dim to the correct intensity. You might only be pulling like 3 400 watts. It's like when people see, you know, judge a light by its wattage, it's not really the way to do it. Um >> it's actually really unfortunately uh we used to under the HPS way. It was like, "Oh, if you're in this size, you get 600. If you're in this size, you get a thousand."
>> Yeah.
>> And um unfortunately, there's that carryover mentally that we think it has to be a watt to watt thing. And a lot of times the thousand's not even pulling a,000. It might be 1,250 depending on how you're running it and the light that you're running. So the double-endeds are different than the single ends. And um I think what you're talking about with the LEDs being so spread out, the nice thing is like mine, the COBS, they do build heat. They have heat sinks off the top.
The ones that I got look like a Sonic the Hedgehog back. It's just like giant metal prongs all over the top right off of where the most heat is generated in that kind of puck. Um it's like a silver dollar kind of sized. Um just tons and tons of LEDs packed into one little circle. And instead of generating all that heat in one hot spot, if you spread it out over a bar, that same let's say there's a hundred or a thousand little uh LED diodes in that COB. Then if you spread that over several different bars versus two or three different little circles this big, then obviously it's going to be less demand for the heat sinks. And on top of that, the main thing that also unlearning from a grower from the HPS, CH, metal hallide, and uh, you know, the HID world going into LEDs was, oh, you can actually grow way closer to the lights, especially if you're dimming them and the bar style, especially because um, with like a COB, you might want to keep it, I don't know, 10 to 12 in away. Uh, with an HPS, it might be like 16 to 18 in away or something like that. But with these bars, if you run them at the certain intensities, like you you've seen Dog Doctor or other people, I've seen plants with a cola growing in between the bars and it's completely fine. There's not even a bleach spot on it and they're still filling in and getting nice yields. And it allows the grower a lot more flexibility and adaptability. And when you do dial it in and you have everything x amount of inches from the canopy at whatever intensity that you're going for, you can act crank like you look at like a Brandon Rust or um you know a Spartans grow over at home or at the Tricom Forge. It's just cola after cola after cola of thick juicy beautiful buds. So that's what we're all aiming for ideally. and the technologies.
I think when there's competition in the market, everybody kind of tries to uh you either drive to get better or you get moved out. Like in the case of Black Sale, they were really committed to the Cobb and these big giant cannons because that was their whole thing. They're like a big pirate ship. They got these cannon type lights. They want to be the HPS replacer for the people switching from HPS to LED. And I thought that was a great concept initially. However, they're um and not just them, lots of different Cobb companies that didn't adapt to bars. Like Timber Grow Lights doesn't make any Cobbs now. They only do I think they're called High Grove LED now, but they only do bar style lights.
And there's a reason for that because that's what people demanded and that um when there's lots of people kind of attacking an issue, I think the best solution comes to the surface, especially when there's not like patents and copyrights or whatever. I think Fluence to their credit was one of the earliest to really come out with that form factor of just really nice highend white with some boost of red LEDs. I think they had like Ozram and um whatever the Samsung LM were at the time and uh those were adopted by I think some of the more forward thinking earlier commercial cannabis operations.
And when I first started seeing photos of that, I was like, "Wow, this is a it's really transitioned from like an underground cottage market to a sort of megalith of a thing that is an international behemoth where it's going to be, you know, Germany, Switzerland, everywhere. Canada, US, Africa, China, like maybe China eventually, not right now, but it's just >> China might be the last one it shows up at.
>> I hope that's not the case, but I think you might be right. That'd be wonderful if it happened though.
>> Yes, they have an old tradition of it being medicinal there and it's like so disappointing.
>> I know. I know. We also do kind of, you know, pre-1930s, we we're also kind of leading the uh like international countries and >> our ban is what kind of pushed a lot of other countries to go against it. So, I won't sit here and pretend like we are uh guilt-free, but we can always continue to move forward and do better.
And I think that our people have been educated. Yeah. Exactly. And uh I I'm optimistic that we'll continue to even if we take two steps forward and one step back um make better legislation for the people and also allow businesses to operate. We do need commercial operations um of all sizes large and small. Um look at any industry whether it's beer, wine, um tobacco, um just you know anything that people consume that's uh at scale and enjoy. There's the craft person and then there's also the giant mega corporations. And so I don't think we should just like blindly hate all large cannabis companies because I do get a lot of that sentiment whenever uh I'm going through comments and social media is that and and there's reasons to dislike them, especially from being on the craft side and differentiating what makes us different or better. And I've talked about that in past shows like what actually makes craft better. Um how does it stand apart from commercial? But I think over time, ideally, the commercial markets will close that gap somewhat so that the craft people have to keep on innovating and coming up with really cool ways to like cure it or uh just unique strains that they're not going to grow in the commercial space because it might take 78 days to do the GMO. Right. Right. But even then, they're doing it in the commercial market to some extent because I'm seeing all kinds of GMO concentrate. That's actually fire as [ __ ] So, watch your asses, folks. Don't think these commercial folks can't. also pump out some uh fire if you're in this space trying to make money off of it. Um if you're just doing it for the love and the passion and the medicine, that's a completely separate operation and keep chasing after that dream and and you know living it because it's that's the realest one of them all is providing yourself friends, family and local community some fire and if you get a little extra reimbursement on the side, a little kick down u maybe side gig style then no issue there. But I think uh people are finding it harder and harder to be like a sole uh income anymore as more and more markets open up commercially from states to countries.
Um whether import is legal or not, it's being shipped all over the world, right?
So we see California bags showing up in Europe and we see um you know different stuff come from it. It's going every direction. So, I think uh it's important just to try and lock down and secure a little setup that you enjoy, something where you can find and strain hunt for flavors that you're interested in because a lot of the times you might be on what the current hype is in the market, but sometimes like it'll shift way away from your flavors. I knew a guy who only liked OG and gas and all the candies came around. I showed up to his place when I was working delivery and he would literally deny he would have the cash ready and he's like, "Man, this is like candy I don't want. I want gas. I want OG or nothing else. Like, and it would be like an OG hybrid, but there'd be some cookie in there. There'd be something else in there. And he would just flat out send my ass home with the bag in hand. And uh you know, to some extent, I respect it cuz I've done that.
Um when the strain was incorrect, like I ordered like a Jack Carrer and then it was like a XJ13 or something showed up.
I was like, "No, like it's not what I ordered." It's like a Yeah, there's Jack in it. It's Jackesque Jack adjacent, but it's not Jack. And even like J1, uh it's a cross of Jack and I really enjoy it, but it's not Jack. If I'm looking for J1, I enjoy J1. Uh but if I'm looking for Jack, I want Jack, you know? And so I think that during market shifts, you might be surprised because your favorite strain might be really popular for a while.
Like GG4 was huge for a while, but in certain markets, it's kind of fallen off. I know Michigan that's not so much the case, but it's rare that you see it.
in the California market these days. Um I saw like a clone group selling it here maybe a year or two back when I was um doing some work with another person on the panel. But the uh since then I looked for it again when they reached back out to me to like try and get more clones and I was like they don't carry it anymore. Like this is what's available now. And so it's uh important that if you love something to hang on to it and make sure you get it rooted.
That's why I've been so patiently waiting to flip the flower because I didn't want to flip and not have a copy of the Death Star cuz who knows if I'll be able to reby it again. Maybe it's available from Tiki. Maybe it's not. But I'd rather if I can keep it in the house and save myself the uh time, money, and shipping.
And bro, you're just you're doing the right thing though. You find something that you love, you give it to as many people. It's like when you get that bud and it's some of the best buds you've had, you want to share it with your friends. do the same thing with your cuts because that's just a bank for you. Maybe they won't keep him. You know what I mean?
But hopefully if if you lose your cut, you can call in all those friends that you handed that cut too and one of them is going to have it to get it back to you. Hopefully, >> ideally or it's just out there for the world to enjoy. Like Kyle Kushman with the strawberry cough. I don't think he's asking people for it back because if he ever does need it, he's giving it to hundreds or thousands of people and it's just out there now. And it's like nobody's saying like, "Oh, the strawberry cough doesn't exist, right?
There's some strains that are like lost like, "Oh, maybe the cat piss's gone or maybe XYZ strain is gone." But no one's saying that about strawberry cough for the most part. It might not be super common, but there's people out there that have it. And um I know Sour Diesel is another one that commonly is claimed to be gone, but I had some a few years back from this one group in Northern California. I think it was called like Soma Valley Sunrown or something. And man, it was that real [ __ ] sour I grew up getting from the New York area, shipped over to Ohio area in the 2000s.
That was just rock solid high. Get you stone for a super long time. Smelled great. It tasted more like the OGs and chems, which I think it's a derivative of if you look into the lineages and claims and things like that. But um a lot of people claimed it was gone. It was gone. And then you started seeing bags of it show up and I'm like that looks just like what I remember. And like granted looks a lot of buds kind of look the same. Like I think GMO kind of looks like sour diesel if you just look at the bud structure. They're kind of foxtaily and they have like these long buds that are kind of skinnier and um frosty as hell, but it's not the densest bud by any means. But yeah, I think there are people for sure with the sour out there still. And uh it's great to try and continue to be one of the people to especially since Josie when he was alive came on the show and like told us the whole shebang like here's the genetics here's how I got it. Here's who I got it from and here's why I share it with people you know because he's just like I think it's fire and I think the world kind of deserves to have it and so I'm going to keep putting it out there and thankfully that thing roots like crazy man. I've rooted three rounds or four rounds of that while it took one round of the Dust Star to root. So it's just >> I found that GG4 has always been easy routers like that one was never a problem and which is almost a rare thing among the coveted clones among the the the the clones that people are they seem >> chem OG are not that way right >> yeah they're harder to >> but yeah GG4 always seems to just want to keep on living so that's cool >> I think it's partially because one of the things that works against it later in flower like it it has so many side branches maybe there's a bunch of oxins and hormones or whatever just making shoot a bunch of shoots everywhere. And because of that, when it goes to root, it's just got those hormones kind of flowing through it. But later on, it gets with if you don't thin it out, it can start to snap under its own weight because there's just like so many buds and they will get so fat that even like a little pinky or smaller like a toothpick sized branch will start trying to throw out a big chunker and it'll snap over on itself. or even like the big branches that have a supportive thing. It's just the bud gets so fat and like water heavy they just like plop over and you're just like whoa like I did not realize that thing was going down. So >> that can happen under canopy like under canopy lighting adding under canopy lighting in uh that can happen too if you're not >> on it. Like I was told like the first time I used under canopy lighting to like um I said well how do I change my pruning because I'm putting these things in there obviously. So, and they're like, "Oh, you don't even have to. Just put them in there. You don't even got to prune.
You'll be good." I'm like, "What the [ __ ] Okay, whatever." So, I put them in there. And yet, it's true. It's true.
It's not required. The plants still grow. Uh the problem is is any branch that isn't like, you know, at least as big around as your pinky.
it has to go because it will do exactly what you're saying like GG4 does is it'll just start building these big buds on a tiny little branch that just will snap or it'll fall down and won't be able to support it and it'll just be all this floppy nightmare. Um, so yeah, when you're talking about that, that reminded me that that's a good tip for under canopy lighting, especially because most people don't add them until flower um at the earliest. And then mo and beyond that, it's usually not until a little bit later in flower when the plants are large enough to get them underneath there and and really be in the right spot. So when you do get them in there, just make sure that when you do your prune, your whatever you call it, your underskirting or your lollipopping or whatever your special term is, you can do a lot less, but you're still taking off the small branches. Um, because of the fact that those buds are going to kind of blow up and it's going to be a, you know, more trouble than it's worth kind of, I guess. I mean, if you want to take a, if time's not the issue, then go ahead and leave them.
>> You can throw them in the hash. That's what I did with my blue dream the one harvest. It was such a kind of all over the place plant that like >> maybe a third or twothirds of it went to hash and I just kept like the top best buds and it made a [ __ ] ton of bubble hash that run. But uh yeah, it's there's options and I think your under canopy lighting suggestion is a good one that kind of corresponds with the same concept for the GG4. The time thing is also a major factor because some of those under canopy buds look like while they're alive on the plant, especially if it's some of your first few grows and you haven't seen this phenomenon, it might look like a golf ball, but then when it's dried, it's like, you know, a peanut M&M, right? So, um you're doing a lot of work in trimming and and drying and hanging or herbs nowing or curidoring or whatever uh system you use to dry and cure your buds just to come out with a bud that's like maybe not going to be a full bowl, let alone a joint, you know, like it's it's uh you bust it up and it's just one of those tiny little popcorn buds. and they usually taste fine, but it's uh I think the shoulder and top buds are obviously the ones that are most desired and and tend to test the best and that's what people are after because you get that punch and rush that you're kind of expecting with a bong to or even just a few puffs off a joint. you should start to feel it versus uh sometimes with the lowers it you might smoke maybe one two or three joints and for some people that's actually fine like the uh older crowd or introductory crowd who doesn't want major rush of canabonoids in every single puff uh they just want a little gentle ride up so like the light beer of cannabis so to speak and the funny thing is my wife's uh worked with a company who did like a low THC launch and it was wildly unpopular even among the senior crowd and elderly crowd and and veterans that might have PTSD that were afraid of higher THC. It just never no one ever we never found a single it's such a terrible marketing to say like low THC.
It was like it literally got scrapped so quickly because it was just the worst.
And they've been extremely successful in other markets like in this cannabis space in flour and beverages and and infused products etc. But that was just like a huge swing and a miss. And it's, you know, okay to going back to earlier admit that, you know, you made a mistake and then adjust and adapt and move on.
We don't have to be uh stuck with something cuz we bought an HPS light um the first time we went to the grow store. It doesn't mean you have to keep changing that bulb every 6 months or a year. That's a big pain in the butt and that's a hidden cost really on top of the you're running a,000 watts versus what you'd probably be realistically replacing with like 7 to 800 watts that you're going to be running at like 5 to 600 watts most of the time. Maybe pushing it to that 800 if you're totally dialed in with CO2, perfect nutrition, everything. But then look at like Brandon Russ who has all that going on and he's still running his stuff at lower wattages and getting insane good performance. So, it's almost like a minmaxing of how little light can you run and still get good yields and good plants because with LEDs, that's actually kind of an option. You can run dimmed or or less wattage and still like I've hit over two grams a watt with a very small LED in a very small space.
Just kind of playing around because my uh flower was taking up a spot and I was like, you know what, I feel like flowering these plants. I'm going to flower them in my veg. And I just fled under like 65 watts and got over 130 gram of bud. It was like 2.2 plus. And I was just like, damn. Like you can make a lot happen in a really small space. So never underestimate what these even tiny LED setups can do.
And that's really where they excel is they they bring that form factor down.
It's like how much space in my grow do I dedicate to my light, including the space I have to put under my light before I can have plants. And LEDs have made it so that you can you can really shrink that space, which was always something that we were always fighting.
I can remember 18 inches forever. 18 in from the bottom of the light to the top of the canopy is as high as you can possibly go before you start getting like tips burning and and everything else. And to be able to just shrink that down and give me more grow space is just I mean I don't have to tell that. Most growers are going to say that's oh I get more space. Yeah, hell yeah. Give me that. Very few say that they would they uh well I've got plenty of space to grow in. I haven't heard that very often.
>> And without much repercussion. And it's not like you're sacrificing yield or quality. Like when I first saw there was a huge like anything when there's a shift in a community. A lot of the old school growers pushed back. They're like LEDs don't yield or they only yield the top buds and the bottom buds are smaller or whatever. And and there was they say the HPS penetrates better or X Y and Z it has more UV or it has more this or that. And many, you know, still make these types of claims. And it's interesting because I've now been on both sides of the fence and I can see that the LED I feel like can do everything the HPS can do and more, but the HPS can't do everything the LED can do. And that's just more from a heat and efficiencies perspective. Um, you can dial in your spectrum on an LED to essentially match exactly what you're getting out of an HPS. And I've seen growers do it. And we reviewed a sideby-side. And there was some small, you know, it was a homegrown science experiment. So there's some little subtleties like they had the blue light was like a little higher from the plants than the red light was like a little closer to the plants. So those were a little bit denser. And um so it wasn't a perfect experiment, but it showed enough that the morphology of the plants under the HPS mimic LED spectrum was much more like an HPS than the any other LED spectrum that they had run in the past.
And this person was an LED producer and tried lots and lots of different spectrum. So, I found that to be interesting. And I I found plants do react differently to different uh like Spartan was talking about with the spectrum tuning. If I were to not turn on the reds and the blues, my plants wouldn't perform to the same level as if they get that extra red and blue kick because it's literally triggering something in the plant's genome to say, "Oh, I can produce blue when I'm hit by a certain type of blue or produce purple or anthocyanins or whatever to uh react to this type of light stimulus." And so it's just like we're manipulating what has been found by scientists within the plant. And so spectrum tuning is sort of a natural I feel like going back to what Spartan was saying with crop steering just part of that process instead of using like a a nutrient to make your plant taller like a lot of people used to use um G3 gibbrillic acid to get stretchy plants. Well, you can give your plant tons of far red and make it stretch without investing in using a chemical or a hormone that may have longerterm ramifications. Then, oh, I can just turn my far reds into blues or turn that far red down um and adjust how my plant's growing versus, you know, having to flush it out of the plant or see how much is in the plant and kind of get a fresh reset by maybe taking a new clone or pollinating it or however you want to reset without the hormones interacting.
And where I hold the most hope really is is like we're still we're still cutting edge guys. We're not at the end of the road yet. Uh they just knocked down, you know, schedule one. So that's going to for sure I'm not even going to say hopefully for sure bring way more research into this plant and it's going to be a lot more research coming out and the the dollars behind light and and um and cannabis growth. Like I want the same amount of white papers and experiments that I can get for corn or cannabis because we we got that pretty figured out to the point that they're GMO and building their own [ __ ] corn.
So I want to know, you know, what's good for my plants. And what's cool is if you give me the control on the light, I don't have to buy a new light. when they the next great study says, "Oh, if we found a few, you know, whatever." If the plant's exposed to this nanometer at this time of its life, you'll see this good result, I'll be able to to hit that with a light that's able to do that to be able to, you know, isolate some sort of spectrum like blue heavy, red heavy, or like you said for red 660 nmter.
That's usually what's used for red. And then for uh you know once you get into the far red you're looking at 740 nmter somewhere around there or you blues is the other direction down in the 400s. So if you had a light that could kind of steer in that direction and then we have the science catching up and and and inform us on different cues for the plan or even light stressors. Um, to me, just as a practical person, it's like that's when I'm making a big purchase, that's just that's kind of future proofing it.
Now, you can't have you can't have a proprietary spectrum anymore like the HPS uh you know, the the Spectrum and the HPS for Hordelux was slightly different than the Spectrum and the HPS for, you know, Nanalux or whatever the hell it was. And so now in the LED game with spectrum tuning, you can't claim some [ __ ] proprietary spectrum because you're you have the capability of of hitting them, you know, by by doing those adjustments rather than, you know, saying I'm using this proprietary amount of gas and nobody else can use it to make this color in this bulb.
>> Spectrum King tried. They for a while had a patented LED spectrum that was supposed to be more efficient. They charged like three to four times the amount. and to go to stragglethorn said 10 to 12 years ago led didn't yield or grow good buds so it was warranted saying such things and I do agree when it was blur and even the early initial cobbs and and stuff that maybe they didn't have the efficiencies they might not have been using the Samsung LM301 B or H or C or whatever the heck diode was the most efficient at the time and in the right numbers with the right drivers the people that were super nerdy about it were testing all this stuff so like it was like to me um they had like this one is 2.12 versus this one's 2.15 or 2.18 and they had like all the efficiencies and now it's like up three probably closer to four now in the efficiencies but it's um just a matter of they figured it out these manufacturers figured it out. It was a debate for a while and even after the debate was kind of figured out by Fluence or whatever um pre-spectrum tuning they I guess wanted to be able to supply part of the market like Black Sale was catering to HPS growers who wouldn't take a bar style LED even if it was shown on a white paper to be more uniform and have better yields and better efficiencies.
They're just they're more going with like gut feeling and vibes and past experience which is um maybe a detriment at times to people because it's like if it ain't broke don't fix it right so they've gotten this far successfully with a certain method and a lot of like Noah said a lot of his grower friends in his area that switched to LED very after like shut down so maybe the additional cost of like bringing those LEDs in push them over the place where like their investment in their grow is no longer uh manageable for where like someone like No, who already invested in his HPS's and already has the um air conditioning and all the different stuff set up, a bulb to him is way cheaper than someone going out and buying another 700 watt light or replacing four,000 watt hoods with four 700 LED lights. And so I could see how whether it was 4, 6, 10, 20, 100, when grows would switch from HPS to LED, especially if they were not aware that they needed to run the room a hell of a lot hotter than they're used to running it under HPS, which is something a lot of people don't talk about, and I'm glad that I remembered to bring that up. In HPS rooms, I was happy when it was like 70 to 75 maybe. I'm like, "Yes, it's nice and cool in here. here, the plants are going to be happy because that infrared heat blasting off that HPS was just cooking those plants all day.
And to keep them in the proper leaf surface temperature range, which you can scan with a little laser thermometer, like I got right here. Beep. And you got this little laser and it tells you, oh, my laptop is uh 85 87 degrees. And so you point this at your plant and it'll tell you what the leaf surface temperature is, not what that thermometer says, whether it's a digital one or an analog one. They're going to give you different readings. And depending on the position, if you have it right above your light in the grow, right beneath your light, right at the base of your grow, right on the wall, I have like 10 or 15 different measuring things. But I still always go back to trusting this, even if it's a little cheap one. They're close enough to give you an idea. In that 70 to 75 degree room, it might say 82, which is what you're looking for in my opinion on that leaf surface. And in an LED room to get that, it might need to be 82° actually.
So, it might be the exact same leaf surface temperature and surf room temperature. It might be 78° and read 82. If your plant's right underneath that, like I have cobs and they do get a little bit hotter, even though it's not as bad as an HPS, they get a little bit the ones that are directly under it get a little bit warmer and depending on air flow and things like that. Um, it's important to consider the leaf surface temperature. So, I'm glad that I remembered to bring that up, but it's just uh a lot of people I think that was part of what led to their unsuccessful growing when they switched from HPS going to LED. They didn't account for that. So, they ran the rooms cold. And I've seen this with growers I I've worked with in the past at least a dozen times. They were running their LED rooms at 75 or lower because of what they were used to or just their environment. It was cold. So, then they didn't have a heater or whatever. I had them bring it up to 78 to 82. Without fail, a dozen plus times, I've seen yellow plants turn green with no other change. No nutrition change, no watering change. Literally just warm the room up. And so I've been a believer ever since that you really have to keep ideally the plants in that proper range as much as you can. And that will help to accommodate for even improper nutrition, even improper soil mixes. But ideally, you get those things dialed in and then you get the environment dialed in as well under whatever lighting system.
>> Yeah, it was like that that old diagram with the barrel, right? You're just pushing each slide of that barrel up when you do upgrades and then it affects all the other now there's another slide that's the lowest. You know, you fix the lowest one. Now you got to find the next lowest to fix it. Once they all get up, you get a big increase with your yield.
It's at Leebig's law of minimums, I think is what that's called.
>> That's what it was.
>> And it's like a a wine barrel and the slats are those little pieces of wood that are held together with that big kind of metal ring in that bottom hoop is like the first layer usually. And like to get even to that second metal ring if it would be having all the nitrogen, all the calcium, potassium, and uh CO2 levels and and environment levels like if your environment is way out of whack, you could have the most perfect. You're watching that guy on YouTube or Instagram or Twitter or wherever you're watching grow content.
His plants are green, lush, turning purple when they're blooming and turning red and beautiful, fading. He's using XYZ nutrient company and you're like, "Wait, I bought the XYZ nutrient company and my plants look like shit." Well, that Lee's law of minimums is not coming down to that nutrient. It's because your environment is probably dog [ __ ] If your plants are at 100 degree room, like it doesn't matter how good that nutrient solution is, they're going to be struggling and dying. If you get it down from 100 to 90, they're going to be way better off. 90 to 80, they're going to be way better off. They can survive.
I've seen plants survive over 100, especially outdoor plants. Um, short periods of time, especially if they have lots of water available to cool them down in the root zone. It's possible, but is it ideal? Absolutely freaking not, right? So, the Lee's law of minimums, it does include environment and stuff like that, not just NPK ratios.
>> Yeah. And I and I want to also just, and it won't take me long, just cover like a general strategy for spectrum tuning with lights because I don't think that's talked about hardly at all. And it's wild to me as a I guess an old guy now that you I I'll get questions from people about, hey, what spectrum should I use when? I'm like, whoa, you spent like they didn't get like the cheap one. They got like the most expensive light you can get. Spectrum tuning, all bells and whistles. Everything's spectrum tuning.
And then they're like, yo, how do I use spectrum tuning? I'm like, dude, that's like buying a Lambo, you know what I mean? Or buying something crazy just not knowing how to even operate it.
So, it's it's not bad, I guess, but it's like to me in my head, I'm just automatically like, man, you're I can't I couldn't spend money like that and then not know what the hell I'm spending my money on, like not know how to run it other than so um but the general strategy is just like um and I say general because of obviously all these cultivars are going to react a little differently to light, but at least I can tell you generally speaking, most cultivars react to red light in a stretch response.
and or in flower it also brings bulk flower bulking. Um blue light tends to keep your plants shorter and and more stout brings inner node spacing tighter in and um but also really good in flowering cycle to push canabonoids higher canabonoids or or we could just say quality I guess flower quality. So, the general strategy is is like if you're in here's some options. If you're in veg, you're going to want a full spectrum light, but you're going to want it a little a little bit skewed towards the blue side because that's going to build you your base nice and stout and build your uh node spacings nice and you don't have stretchy plants in and weak branches. Um, but if you're say you're say you're really really early on in in veg, we'll say early veg uh rooted cutting, uh, you might want to um, keep a nice full spectrum, but instead of skewing blue, you might want to skew not red 660 red, but far red because not far red has been shown for for sure to trigger shade avoidance if you get to like over 10% of your spectrum in far red, but it also has been shown to be very helpful in in in stimulating some rooting.
So you can you can mix a little bit in really early on if you if you're having something, you know, to try to give you a little extra push to get those plants to shoot out roots early on and fill those pots. Um, but I would just use a pretty full spectrum with a little bit of blue for for most of veg. Once you get into flower and you make that switch, I would ask yourself, okay, are these plants too big and I need to suppress the stretch or the bolt? Or are these plants too small and I need to encourage a little bit of stretch or encourage bit of bolt? Uh because you could do two different things with light then, right? So you could pick, okay, I want to do more or less reds depending on what you want the plant to do. Uh or you could say, "No, these are right on the money." And then just go, "Okay, I'm just going to go full spectrum light for the first few weeks and and let it just keep rocking and rolling." Once the the plant stops growing vertically through that bolt, then you can uh start going red heavy. You can't go red heavy at the beginning because you might get way too excessive stretching. The w the reason the why you want to bring reds in is because for one, it's more efficient light. So, for every watt that you're pulling from the from the wall, you're getting more light out, which is going to give you more yield. Um, and it's like almost like the nutrient version of a bloom booster, right? So, it it encourages flower growth. Uh, so you can do that after stretch is over where you don't have to worry about stretch anymore because it's it's done. So, it's just building flowers. So, the strategy is is then bring in the heavy reds then.
And then for the last week or two, I only, this is a contention between me and uh Thomas, the owner of Grandmaster LEDs. He likes to gradually make changes like 3 weeks before harvest, like maybe bring in 50% blues and then the second, you know, two weeks from harvest get, you know, to 75% blues and then last week go 100% blues. I like to just say, "Screw it. Last week, just hit it with blues." Because in my eyes, I'm giving it more of a of a less time. Like in one week, I'm not going to see even if I cause a a herm, it's not going to be seated, right? It's going to be a few flowers that I might have to pick out. But if I try to alter it with a lot of blues, which isn't really super normal for a flowering plant at the end of the cycle, I'm worried about messing with hormones and stuff. So, I just hit it at the end the last week with blues. So, you know, blue blue full spectrum and veg. I like to do that same blue full spectrum the first few weeks of flower because I'm in a situation where I'm usually trying to keep them shorter. Um, and then bring the reds in for bulking of flower and then last week bring the blues back to push canabonoids where you've already built your bulk. You're not going to lose a lot of lose a lot of uh bulk or anything by not having a ton of red at the end.
I think that's a good >> that's easy kind of way to do it. But then you can change and do your own thing from there. But that's just at least a strategy to follow to give you an idea of that's some easy spectrum tuning that I can do to where you know you can do that with regular traditional lights that only have one spectrum. Use whatever lights you have now. Then where I said add red, just get a red booster light that's just like 660 nmter red. or where I said blue, get a 450 nanometer or I said blue, a 450 n 440 nmter blue to to push that spectrum to what you already have. At least it'll push the spectrum in the right direction. or like in some cases like you might already have uh the proper spectrum like you might have bought a Vegite. In the case of like my HLG65, it is 4,000 Kelvin which is 800 Kelvin above that 3200 Kelvin which we talked about earlier. CH which is kind of a warm white. 4,000 Kelvin would be considered a cool white. I'd say 5,000 Kelvin and 6,500 Kelvin are also occasionally implemented if you want even squattier plants which are just bluer and bluer. So, if you've ever bought like a Home Depot light that's like a cool versus a warm, the warm ones are just redder. The cool ones are uh you know, bluer, but the uh 6,500 Kelvin will make your plants a lot squattier. I think 4,000 Kelvin is a nice balance where it grows almost like a I'd say 3500 is like kind of right in the middle of this uh Kelvin spectrum where it kind of goes from blue to red and the lower numbers become more red, the higher numbers become more blue. And that 3500 to my eye looks very much just like paper white, just pure white, middle of the road white. And uh the further you push down from 3500, if you go to 3,000, it starts to look red. If you look at 2500, it's even redder. 2,000 ultra red.
And uh you know, you'll never even see 2,000 Kelvin stuff really out there unless it's a specialized type light.
And um it is important I will say to avoid upgrade itis because I've seen this now not just in the cannabis hobby but uh cars from people racing trying to like there's a guy in like a really fancy 911 getting passed up by a Miata because the Miata driver like knows what they're doing and they've like self-tuned and are just a better driver.
And um in you know coffee there's been like barista challenges where the guy with like $15,000 worth of equipment with no experience goes up against the barista with like $200 of equipment but 30 years of experience and uh the person who has all the experience and knowledge ends up making a high quality thing or performing at a high level versus the person who is brand new. Even if you buy the best of the best of the best it's not a replacement for the experience or the skill. So it does potentially help.
It gives you more in the case of racing like horsepower and torque and uh better weight balance ratios and things like that. But in the case of growing um I'm not trying to poke fun at him even though he took some pretty serious jabs at me in the past and he's never apologized. Dang it. But I won't hold it against him. This is not against him personally. Not a personal attack. I'm not the kind of person. Maybe I am on the side.
GML has posted and to his credit posted many more grows than I have for much longer than I have and many times they don't end up going well whether it was under HPS or uh HLG lights or under his own GML lights and so that just goes again back to the point of even if you get the best of the best lights if you don't know about spectrum tuning you're not going to know how to implement it.
So, I'm glad Spartan gave a rundown on that because you could have even if you use the spectrum tuning, going back to like the temperature, if you don't dial your environment in because you spent all your money on the fanciest spectrum tuning light, but no ventilation and no fans. So, now your girls running way too hot even with an LED. LEDs produce 1,000 watts is 1,000 watts. So, if you put 1,000 watts of LED or 1,000 watts of HPS in a sealed room with no ventilation, they both produce I think it's 1300 BTU British thermal units or something like that. Maybe it's 3,400. There's some number. It's an exact number per thousand watts, right? The way the LED gets around that is it pushes the heat off the opposite direction for the most part. It's it's drifting off the top of the light versus being pumped down on to the plant, which um migro has shown with the kind of thermal imaging. I think it's called like forward looking infrared or something where you can temperature scan a room and it shows like red where it's hot, green, yellow, blues, and all the other things like that. The way that the light comes off HID bulbs is just so much more direct down onto the plant. Where with the LEDs, it's the actual thing itself gets hot. Like you're not going to want to touch a LED after it's been running a 12-h hour cycle. It'll be cooler to the touch than an HPS, but you still don't want to touch the top of it or the bottom of it in my opinion. Some of them will run cooler if you're not running them at 100%. But anyway, just going to say that even if you have the GML light, if you don't know how to spectrum tune, if you aren't taking care of the plants otherwise, going back to that Leik's law of minimums, if you're using some janky dank recipe that you found on a forum from 2007 that has uncomposted chicken manure in there or something, you're going to have some hot ass nasty ass soil and your plant's not going to do well no matter what light you're under.
get that [ __ ] dialed in before you uh focus too much on the lighting. Because I've seen people with very like Home Depot lighting, like under the cabinet lighting, uh little whatever lighting that they can people that stole lights from street lights that are growing [ __ ] fire because they dialed everything in. They knew, although it's not ideal, they had to keep it 18 in from that thing. It's like, yeah, it sucked. And yeah, we had less room for the plant, but we overcame, right, for years and years and years. And people still do. And so it's just about making the best of what you've got. If you've got an HID bulb, we're not trying to poke fun or talk [ __ ] It's just um we've gone to the the grass isn't always greener on the other side, but in this case, if you've been on both sides and you see that the grass truly is greener somewhere else, it's uh important to give your honest opinion and feedback and reviews of all of them. And I I've experienced every level of the spectrum of this light from metal halloid to HPS to ceramic metal hallide. I and I still have a fondness. It was less than a decade ago that I used the ceramic metal hall. It's sitting uh you know stored if I like I said if I had to use it right now I would. But I'm very satisfied with my LEDs. So uh we definitely talked lots of lighting and it is 505. I missed the fact that we went over the hour mark.
I'm going to go ahead and copy that link and I'm going to pass it to Tao just for thoughts updates. You can talk about whatever. I know you always have a hot take. So Tao, I'm going to give the mic to you for a couple minutes while I get the link sent out to the chat.
>> All right. I'll try and fill in some blanks here. Um, yeah, as everybody knows, I moved and I've been struggling, man. When you change environment, it [ __ ] happens. So, um, I'm learning that.
That was because I was in the same spot or at least I was on Long Island. It's like, um, and I didn't realize how like the humidity doesn't fluctuate very much compared to where I am now. I mean, it is drastic here and it's really screwing with me. But um yeah, and as far as when um you were talking about getting uh you know, people jumping into a Lamborghini before they know how to drive, I would actually I was getting my motorcycle fixed at a dealership and they're like, "Yeah, this guy bought a a brand new uh and I don't know if it was a Chicksaw. I forget what it was, but it was like a a sport bike, thousand thousand cc sport bike." and they like, "Yo, um, you know, maybe you should take a couple lessons before you get on this thing." He's like, "No, I got it. I got it." He got on it and as he was leaving the dealership, he popped a wheelie and crashed into a telephone pole and hurt himself and the bike. So, yeah, there definitely is something to that um uh working your way, but you could always like spawn the same once you get that light, then you have options at least. and when they learn new stuff and you could learn yourself, but still.
Yeah, I that's totally a weird uh situation that I would think of. Buying that kind of light and not knowing how to best use it would be like a waste of money or a very quick learning experience. I thought I did something like that. Yeah. So, >> I've been guilty in the past of jumping into a hobby, >> not like dipping the toe, but going head first. And so I wanted to get the if I could afford it if like some everybody's what is expensive to them is relative.
So certain hobbies are like real cheap.
Like if you're a grown adult and you're wanting to get into like not to say in general it's cheap, but like you could fish relatively inexpensively. There's lots of jigs, lures, and and fishing poles out there.
You could get into it for probably under 100 bucks and go catch fish, especially if you know what you're doing. And um you don't need a boat or whatever. You could fish from the shore or a pier or whatever. Um, so it certain places you can actually get a lot more for your money like in cars or other things, but in growing I do think uh going to your point of you moved and you're still adjusting to dial it in. Have you acquired any new gear in terms of environmental regulation like heater, extra exhaust, or any way to adjust or change the environment, humidity, what have you, um, since you moved? Or you just running all the old gear from the last place?
>> No, I did. I I had to buy um, so when the heat came on, it's when it got really dry, like stupid dry in this in the place I'm at now. So, I got a humidifier and it's a three it's on the third floor. So, it's sucks. There's no water up there. And I learned quickly that I have to keep filling it up and and I couldn't I couldn't keep up pretty much or I didn't because I'm a lazy buck. So, yeah, that's what happened like at the be very beginning then. So, I like stopped over the summer because it's way too hot and I didn't get an AC. And then uh so when I started up again, I realized that the batteries crapped out in my uh hydrometer, whatever. You know, I had a one of those little um temperature uh humidity sensor things. I had a sensor for outside and inside, you know, I had it all going good and I could see everything and then the batteries crapped out and that died. So I had to get another one of those. But in reality, I probably need all of it. I need a humidifier, a dehumidifier, an air conditioning unit, and maybe even a small heater in that space. And I don't have all that [ __ ] So still I >> seal it. If it's possible for you to seal the space, you can get away with usually you need a dehumidifier.
>> Smaller things. Yeah.
>> But you don't need a humidifier. Usually you're >> probably right. If and I thought that would help like if I packed it out with a lot of plants and a lot of dirt and it was Right. Right. Yeah. That would work.
Should work.
>> Exactly.
>> It should. But some places get super [ __ ] dry, man. We get the Santa Ana winds or Arizona. It's just like you're going to need a decent humidifier in some situations.
>> I'd have to be in there like still get up there maybe every other day or every day or more, you know. But then again, yeah, that could be done, but I've just been slacking to be honest. And >> you need automation. You need automation, >> right? That's And then Yeah, I'm I'm uh Yeah, I'm [ __ ] up. But >> they make these Rainbirds or whatever.
It's like 20 bucks and you can plug in a humidifier to it and it has a probe and it'll just turn itself off at a certain or even a lot of these humidifiers >> the one that I have. Yeah, the one I have turns off at a certain level too, but it's still it's just uh it was constant. I fill it need a bigger a bigger tank on it.
>> Yeah, that's another thing. I can figure out how to get water up there and just have it like on a float switch or something because >> Yeah, it went through tons of water, dude. And >> gotta make it easy on yourself for sure because filling it up all the time is a pain in the ass. Even just moving a few gallons.
>> I just filling up my uh I sound like such a lazy ass, but like filling up my three um earth boxes just like the way that they're positioned. Like I'm just using a straight up like plastic gallon jug and a funnel. Uh and the front one I don't even need the funnel. I can just, you know, hit that hole. It's big enough. But the back two I have a little funnel to pour them into. But I'm like reaching across the front one. I'm like getting a little bit of a shoulder workout there with the uh you know I think a gallon is like eight pounds. So like reach it out. I got a little bit of a [ __ ] up back. Uh a foot and maybe a little less than a foot and then pouring it over. Thankfully after as you pour it gets lighter and lighter and uh you can adjust your position or support with the other hand or whatever and uh get yourself up in there and make sure that the plants are still getting the water they need. But >> yeah, with my humidifier I was putting it through a filter first. So that was like another extra step I was trying to do. And I I basically did it. I didn't put no regular top order in there. But yeah, it's just yeah, I had a much better more comfortable position in where I was before. So, but yeah, >> it's uh tough to adjust sometimes when you move. Are you comfortable with saying where you used to be now that you're not there anymore?
>> Long Island. Long Island was perfect because and they grow grapes on Long Island. So, I would imagine that Yeah, I [ __ ] up because I could be on Long Island right now growing plants legally without fear and here I am. And here I am.
>> You're just a rebel with the cause.
You're like, you know what? [ __ ] it. I'm going to keep going to the place where it's not allowed to happen.
>> But yeah, and yeah, the new uh I don't know if it's the mayor or the governor, some chick that's the new Pennsylvania head is like, "No, we're not going to do recreational." They're like, "Well, what if like what if everybody wants it?"
She's like, "No, we're not going to do that.
Yeah, I'll find that clip >> which is ridiculous. Yeah, >> it's unfortunate when the politicians don't want to do what the will of the people is, but they end up not sticking around for very long if that's the case.
>> Well, that's then say, "Well, we don't have to vote for you then." If that's the case, >> next election cycle, good luck.
>> Yeah. Well, we need new people to vote for. Don't even get me started now because I don't The orange man is failing left and right in my opinions.
And I was >> Well, yeah. In terms of cannabis, what are your biggest gripes?
>> Um, yeah, that I can't grow it without beer right here in my backyard. I mean, that's what I want to do. I want to step out my back my back door and go to my cannabis plants that are the size of Meno Dopes and take care of them, you know? That's what I want. That's really all I want. And >> the American dream.
>> Yeah.
>> So, like what you could maybe do in Long Island is what you're saying. You want that?
>> Or Michigan or California or Oregon. Or >> it's like that's the wound right there.
Le salted. Punch my finger through.
>> Dude, remember that guy? It was like uh Moon Moon Moon Creek Farms in Nevada.
His [ __ ] greenhouse grow. How [ __ ] beautiful it was. It was a bunch of big ass men dope ass plants.
>> Yeah.
>> Speaking of beautiful plants, what updo Grow is about to hop in and join us here in just a second. Yeah.
>> And we're going to get doctor, which I think might be dog doctor.
>> And you know, I was lying. I want I want 26footers, not six 20 foot plants.
Really? Yeah. I take that back. I don't want men dope plants. I won't lie.
>> I'm actually with you, T. I want more smallers. Yeah, six to eight footers, but more than uh >> not much taller than me, right? That that and they make that that makes great buds, man. Those 10 eight six six to 10 foot. All right, I'll shut up. So, uh, we got what up do grow joining us. It looks like you're turning your camera to the side there for us. We get the full screen. It is turned the right way. We got a couple plants here looking nice and green in the scrog tented up. Fans blowing.
>> How you doing, bro? Welcome back.
>> Good to have you.
>> Good. How you doing?
>> Doing good.
>> Good. Is that Dr. Lee alone who joined us as well?
>> Yeah.
>> Heck yeah. What up, doctor? I don't know if you've uh joined us before, but welcome.
>> Yeah, did I showed you the CO2 extract one time? Oh yeah. [ __ ] It's been a while. Well, welcome back.
>> What's up, dog?
>> Hey, what's happening?
>> We bumped into each other on Eagle Show a bunch of times and I just got mixed up.
>> Yeah. Um, yeah, I got a good deal today.
I got this uh I got these bags of llama manure down the road. I'm still waiting on my 8-year-old cow manure. Didn't show up yet, but instead, well, not instead.
I'm still going to get that. But I got eight bags of llama. I mean, five bags of llama manure today for 30 bucks. The guy's like, "How about 4 for 25?" He's like, "No." He goes, "I'll give you a five for 30." I was like, "Okay."
I was like, "Okay." Yeah. So, this is what it looks like. It's getting dark now here. But >> I was going to say, "How is llama manure? Have you used it in the past? Is it does it need to be composted first?"
>> I lo I lo used it last year. This is already composted. This is There's no pellets. I asked him if there's any like, you know, like rabbits, turds in there. He says, "Yeah, he says there's worms in it, but >> I just open this bag >> and dump this out." And there's no uh I don't see any worms, but it's it's pretty mucky. But um and I got this mix here of com mix and fox form that I had in these things, but I want to make a mix of this here, put them in here, and then plant these these plants here. I want to get these into uh into it. So, I want to get that.
>> What are those?
>> That's a This one's a This one's a Durban poison.
>> Oh, hell yeah.
>> Okay. This one is the lemon. They gave me these. And this one, I think, is a Tahoe.
What it says? So, this is like a a Tahoe.
>> Damn. What up though? That's a frosty ass bud.
>> So I got I took a milk jug and made a tea out of the some of the llama mana for my other little plants that are in cups that upstairs.
My freak shell cross and the duck foot and rock solos plants. I want them to get bigger before I transplant them. So I want to give them some of that. Give them a little kick and get them bigger before they get transplanted.
Um, then in here you can see well I I got all the holes dug. I'm waiting for the for the calmanor to come because I got >> That's a good point though. Save yourself time and split it up.
>> Yeah, I'm waiting for the manure to come in and I got crushed oyster shells to put a little bit in there. Probably I got like a 50 lb bag but I want to get more. I want to put like maybe a cup in each hole with the with the manure, the crushed oyster shells. But in here, >> are the plants going to get too big, too close right there, though?
>> Well, I grew this stuff last year with the with a little bit of almond manure.
I couldn't really grow >> I couldn't really use too much. Were >> those all seedlings, Doc? Go back.
>> Yeah, those are all seedlings he's got.
Yeah. Sorry. Holy [ __ ] >> Where the hell are these going?
>> These are going to New York.
>> These are going to my New York farm. I got a big farm up there. But these >> these these here when I get when I get the manure and everything in the hole here, I still got plenty of CBG seeds.
I still want to do >> I still want to I want to pop >> I want to put the seeds and grow them from seed in the holes here when it gets warmer because then there's no transplanting and two >> that's the way to do it dude seed to finish >> two weeks of time >> and this way they're in the ground ready to go they hit that manure >> and bam but last year >> you don't worry about veudging that's a little early to be put them in right now isn't it?
>> Yeah. No, I'm not putting them out yet.
I got to wait until at least Memorial Day here.
>> Yep. Yep. I'm with you. The same here.
>> And And I got to I'm doing this farm first and then I'm going to go to New York farm and do that. But I'm going to start with seeds here first. And these are all CBG.
And I might put some cups up on the hill. I got the back hill. I might do some cups up there.
Um, but I'm going to do seeds mostly in the grass area because they they'll grow better. I don't take two weeks to get grip again.
You know what I mean? But >> you're going to have a lot of work ahead of you, buddy.
>> I could do this.
>> I do this I did this since 2019.
>> No, I believe in you. I'm just saying that's admirable, man. I'm not I'm not doubting you one bit. It's >> 70° 70 degrees in here. 52% humidity.
That ain't too bad. Okay. I got the >> I got the HPS 600 here. Now, you're saying take the take the glass off it?
>> It could potentially uh let more stuff through. But it it just all depends. I think if it if it ain't broke, don't fix it. [ __ ] Your operation looks like >> that sunlight >> cranking.
>> You got a bunch of different >> sunlight in in the daytime. And the sun comes up over there and comes all the way around and goes down the mountain over there behind.
>> Yeah.
>> So, I get all sunlight in here. Plus, I got this stuff here. And this LED, right? This is a This is a 56K and it's 45 watts. I think that's comparable to like an old 65 watt or something. So, >> you're rocking it. I love the mixed light setup. You're saving yourself a bunch of uh money by just having that natural light.
>> Yeah. And what do you call this? Links into one another too. So you can plug the other one in and like uh chain the chain. Then I got >> I love that.
>> And these are all coming up. These are all uh CBD. They're all coming up from Hokei. Uh CBG actually. See, I also have I got the old the old Mar red and blue.
Well, how come you still got floor space without cups on it over there? His lemon hoke.
>> I can't afford any more soil to make and cups to make anymore.
>> Dig. You got 20. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I seen all that soil out there.
Where'd all that soil go that you [ __ ] dug those holes with? Where' that soil go? Start >> blow right on the side there.
>> Fill them up.
>> Yeah. I'm going to put the manure in and then put the soil back on and and then planting that. Um with >> I love this old school. This is like a history museum right here with that blur pole on the right.
>> But this one >> Yeah, that's a throwback.
>> Yeah, this is a old uh It's a Mars copy.
It's the Grow in the Bloom, Red and the Blue.
And then I got these things here. I got the HLG 240s. Okay. And they got adjustable knob here on it. They got ports for like a phone line or whatever, whatever you want to. And switches on it. I got >> decent light.
>> I get these LEDs. Um, >> I think they still rock today. No, >> I got the shop.
>> I got two of them for like 250 brand new at the thrift shop. I got the boxes and everything. I find so much [ __ ] at this thrift shop over here. It's unbelievable, man. I'm like, wow. cuz we're in Vermont. Everyone smokes weed here. You know what I mean? It's like >> nice, >> you know. And also, I built a light mover. We're in here cuz I was going to do indoor. I got medical license, too.
So, I can do medical, you know, but I got I got the light mover. And then I hooked a rod going to another homemade one that I made with uh with a sh uh closet door hinges.
>> So I can Yeah.
>> What do you got? Handlebar on your phone for the camera. What is that thing?
>> Oh, this this is the thing to move it up and down.
>> This I put it so I can move it the other way.
>> Tripod.
>> Yeah.
>> Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, this is the handle that you can move it up and down. Yeah.
So, I got these going. I might put these lights up. I don't know if I need them right now in veg. Also, I got the I got the T5. I got the two-footers and I got the 4footers like I don't know six, eight bulb.
>> Is that a bag of seeds right there?
>> Yeah.
>> Holy [ __ ] >> Yeah, that's all.
That's all a mix of this stuff here. I don't know if you guys seen the other shows, but this is uh this is stuff that I've been growing for years with the the CCB. I grew I grew with them for three years. And I got all different stuff.
These are all single plants like this one. This one's a berry.
And this one, >> uh, that's just like seated nugs, right?
>> Yeah, they seated. So, I saved the buds, some of it.
>> Yeah, >> I screened I screened all that. These all came from the from the bags from this like pound bag or whatever I grew.
>> Okay.
>> On the plant >> and I made a bunch of hash. This is a threeleaf orange right here. I got all different three leaves. I got six different types of three leaf, but I got the paint, I got the berry, I got tarpentine, I got, you name it, I got I just can't name all the strains. I know you guys are busy, but these are all the seeds from that. That's some of the seeds. I mean, I got another bucket somewhere with with seeds in it from from cleaning cleaning up.
>> All we need is a helicopter.
You're going to have seeds behind your ears. You got to put them in like one of those shakers like they do with the wild flowers and just go sprinkling them uh in the empty flower beds between the roads.
>> I don't even want to grow my stuff because I don't want to pull males. I did it one year and I had to pull [ __ ] a thousand males.
>> That was like Brandon.
>> His backyard's a cover crop. He's just been pulling mails left and right. It's just all canvas seeds everywhere.
>> Every day going out checking them and then if I see a female, I'll mark it with something. with uh some kind of marker where I don't have to go back to that one and I just not doing that no more, you know. So I the CCB it was so hard to do anything with them. Every month they were voting on new stuff and it's like this is crazy. So I went back to the hemp and and I got all feminized so I don't have to pull males out. So whatever I got growing like I got now we got green fingers couple of his plants came up here the pawn something he calls it the porn I got three of those up coming up and there's ones coming up here I think I think those are look like plants oh that's the banana and I got a couple more of his strains in there but those I got to check when they come to flowering to make sure they're not going to pollinate my crop. You know, I got to pull males. So, that's what I got hanging out here.
>> Even you got to look for Hermes because it happens.
>> Yeah. No, I only had one hermit with this with the hemp last year and it was the one plant I walk out the back door over here. Okay. I walk out the back and I walked straight to the back and I went to the same plant at night and looked at it with a flashlight. Okay. Every night I go out there and look at the same plant with a flashlight. That's the one that hurt me. Okay. Nothing else did.
But I caught it right away because I was looking at it all the time.
>> Why'd you keep looking at that one?
>> Because it was the closest one when I walk out in the back. You know what I mean?
>> Just kind of general >> and I just went I was the one right straight up. I just walked to that one and looked at it. So that's the only thing that >> Doc.
>> Yeah.
>> But turn back to the holes that you made.
>> Show us the holes in the ground. Yeah.
Right now.
>> Oh, these.
>> Yeah, cuz the light from the the light from the building hits the that first row right there.
>> Oh, yeah. But there's nothing in there yet. But I got curtains.
>> Oh, okay. All right. I guess you don't have those lights going either, right?
Right.
I took plastic and I made these curtains that >> you got it covered. There you go.
>> I put the shower curtain on there >> and close this whole place up.
>> I knew that might be an issue.
>> At 9:00, I'll shut the lights off because I don't >> I was going to say the timers could also just be the cure for that. You just don't let them run too far past sundown.
>> Yeah, I don't want to. These are coming out anyway and seeds are going in there.
This is going to be empty.
They're going to New York allegedly, hypothetically.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I got no vehicle now, too. So, I'm like kind of stuck.
>> So, hopefully I can ride.
>> Well, I want to give a chance to What Up do Grow to uh walk us through his garden. Thank you so much, Doc, for uh walking us around. It looks like you got a whole lot ahead of you, and I really can't wait for an update. I hope you come back in a few weeks or months.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. I got all the holes dug all around all around the place. A couple of green houses I got to set up.
That one I tipped over because I had to cut the grass under it. That one usually goes here, but I'm waiting for the cow to come in through the gate here and get dumped. Four yards are going to get dumped in that bed and then four yards are going to get dumped here. And then I'm going to put >> Hey, what up though? What are we uh looking at here in your garden?
Okay, >> G.
>> It's looking good. You had a whole bunch going on. I saw you walking around. I had a shared spotlight in the past so we could see both the gardens going on. Um, but yeah.
>> Purple in that little one that you were showing.
>> What's that?
>> The one that you pulled down. Is that a little purple in there? What's Why were you like >> Which one?
>> The one on the right. Yeah, I think to the right. I was just looking at it.
Looks like it's getting a little bleached at the top.
>> Yeah, something at the tip, right? Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, that one. Exactly.
>> It's turning white.
>> It's not. It's not brritis, right? Hope not.
>> Oh, no. No.
>> Okay. All right.
>> No, it's just turning. It looks like a little white at the tip.
>> A little white.
>> I think I had to turn my light down a little bit.
>> I got a I got a light on this side.
>> Oh, yeah. It's right there. Yep. It's right there.
>> But no, they're looking good.
>> Beautiful. You saw I showed some earlier that were super frosty.
>> Show us that frosty one. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Get to the frosty stuff. Hey, >> want the frost?
>> The the internet demands it. Don't you know?
It doesn't matter if it smokes like garbage. If it looks frosty, Instagram loves it.
These ones.
>> Yeah, that was the one right there.
>> Oh man, that resin rail. It is attractive. And usually frosty stuff is corresponding with good cannabis. I would say nine out of 10en times it's a good sign.
>> Yeah. You know what this is?
>> What?
>> Spartan.
>> Say again.
>> Spartan puke.
>> Oh, I was trying to I was double muted.
I couldn't get the [ __ ] I say it looks like puke or it could be project V, but the frost levels making me think puke. And those rosan puke.
>> How's it smelling right now?
>> Oh, it smells good.
>> Yeah, she's getting stinky.
>> Yeah, a lot of people are telling me they're getting pretty good uh hash results, too, with them. So, uh, if you do any hash work, she's pretty good hasher. I I've heard >> that doesn't surprise me looking at her.
I mean, she's dripping with tricoms on the fan leaves. Like, the buds are barely getting started and the fans are already coated and just frost rail.
Like, it's a >> that's impressive. Beautiful looking plant. and the knowing the genetics with the Donnie Burgerer on one side and the Vortex uh F2 on the other. Or maybe it's just the F1. I can't even remember what the Was it the F1?
>> F1. That's the one Vortex.
>> Oh man, this I can't imagine anything but this being fire. Like both parents are such heat.
>> Yeah, that's that's that's a good one.
Like I said, like I I've grown before.
Like I I grew at at the Tricom Forge, we grew like over 20 fenos and there was like four that were like you could tell they pop out like that. They start frosting up so fast and those are those are the ones that uh I that are the keepers for me. But they don't they don't I haven't found one that's super turppy. I found them. They're frosty as hell. They're hashy. But maybe because it's got the the frost level. It's just that hashy kind of flavor. But I I haven't found a super turppy of the frosty ones. The other ones I' I've smelled, you know, they're pretty turppy and stuff, but I'm not picking for turfs either. So So I always I always keep those ones.
>> Yeah. I got her in this big old pot.
>> Oh, that's cool.
>> That soil looks alive.
>> Oh, yeah. There's >> That's how that plant's ripping. There's a bunch of worms, everything in there.
>> That's what she was bred in, man.
>> Then the one next to her is just looking not quite as happy in terms of uh, you know, not quite the same amount of root space.
>> I just put these in here today cuz I took them out of the other tent. That's just like a little two gallon pot, >> but you can still get a lot out of it.
Like Brandon >> show us those are Yeah. Looking great. I was just talking more about the bottom like soil surfaces.
>> Oh yeah. Yeah, that's a little two gallon compared to a I think this is like a I think 25 gallon.
>> How would you move that if you had to?
Would you like Can you lift that thing?
>> Oh, I probably could, but it'd be hard.
I have to drag it.
>> I was say that's that's a workout, bro.
Like I >> considering like a dolly or something at that point. Like one of those little ones you could slide under put it onto a a what's it called? the little wooden crates and then uh jack it up and slide it out. My back ain't ain't above uh that heavy work anymore. I can't handle it.
>> Yeah, these are about done. These are probably be done next week. These are >> good name.
>> Yeah, >> beautiful plant.
>> I got two of them over here.
Also frosty. I mean, definitely not lacking tricoms. It's a a modern cannabis plant growing well.
>> Yeah, I like how uniform that is. If they're two different >> and that one back there, uh, >> just getting started.
>> Sour patch. That one I just put back there. I think she's like a week and a half in flower.
>> I like the structure though. It looks like it's gotten a lot of tops and it might >> be one that'll push up towards the scrog.
Yeah, I took a couple cuts a week ago cuz I was liking the way she was the structure of her.
>> I was actually about to literally say because we were talking about lighting earlier, this is kind of the exact structure I want out of a plant from veg. I want to have like a lot of nice tops, just like a a pretty even canopy, but densely filled so that it has room to stretch and kind of fill out all these different squares if it were to get that tall.
>> But, uh, beautifully uniform. a lot of different, you know, five plus uh finger leaves. And >> that's just this is kind of what I'm I'm hoping for. My uh project V is much like this. Maybe a little too dense in the under canopy. If you don't prune it, it'll just grow a million zillion little side shoots. So, you got to be a little bit careful with that. And just uh plan accordingly, I guess. I I've been taking little snips in there every couple days and just clearing out some of the really scraggly little stuff, but leaving the stuff that's going to end up like what you've got right here, which is I I can't imagine this plant isn't going to turn into something beautiful with how it's starting off.
>> She looks nice. I didn't do no topping or nothing to her.
>> Wow.
>> Naturally.
>> That's awesome.
>> Yeah.
>> Kyle Breeder picked I think for similar stuff in terms of structure. he would pick for plants that grew like that just naturally because it just makes it so much easier on the grower. I think you just pop it from a seed. Imagine like going to uh doc doc earlier with all the seeds. Like if you just threw a bunch of these down and you just have a bunch of big beautiful plants. You don't even have to do [ __ ] to them.
>> Yeah.
>> And then back there, that little one is a papaya malasada from 808 Genetics.
She's a little run.
>> How large is the pot?
>> She didn't stretch at all. It's in a three gal.
>> Okay. Yeah, I would expect it to get bigger personally.
>> Yeah, >> it could be just a strain if you ran it again. Maybe just veg it. Like it's like a Mac one or um >> purple.
>> Yeah, but it's my first time growing all these except for these ones and the Spartan puke I grew before. But those two are the first time.
>> How's the Smart and Puke compared to the first time you grew it?
>> Is it Was it about the same this frosty the first time around?
>> No, this one's a lot frostier than last time.
>> Different seed or uh did you take a cut?
>> No, different seed.
>> Okay. So, that goes to Spartans. Uh, you said like out of the however many he grew, four of them were >> the first time Spartan sent me those seeds that was like shoot almost two years ago.
The first one they grew, but it wasn't this frosty, but the last time the buds were a lot like fatter.
>> Do the pukes have like a sedative high at all or like a more balanced high? My wife's not a huge upler like uplifting sativa kind of high woman. And I'm curious if the Spartan puke is more like hybrid or even indicica leaning it despite kind of having a what looks like a thinner leaf on this plant. But I'm curious. The high doesn't always align.
I've had really thin leaf stuff that couch locked me like um what was it called? Platinum Yeti. So >> I didn't I don't find puke to be narcotic to me. Um, it's but I would still say I don't get up pee from it either. So, I would say it's right down the middle like that like a hybrid.
>> See, I think she could handle that. I don't think she'll be able to handle the vortex because it's going to have THCV and [ __ ] and that's like not her bag.
But, it's totally my bag and it's nice to have options for both of us. But, I'm definitely curious cuz next time I pop I'm going to pop you and and um Brandon's stuff cuz I've been hanging out of those seats for what feels like far too long. And the Spartan puke is definitely high on my list of ones to try.
>> Yeah, that's one I still pop too. I'm still hunting it, too. I still am not, you know, 100% happy with the one that I have, but uh I like it a lot. But >> it sounds like you're looking for one that has the resin production that we just saw, but the tarpin production of the ones that don't uh produce the resin like we're seeing.
>> No, I haven't even found a tarpin. I haven't found one that I that I'm happy with the turquoise yet.
>> Okay, that's fair because I mean the thing the 2020 Menoscino pointed out in the past is it should be better than both parents if you want to like keep something around and to that standard it's a really high bar if you're comparing Donnie Burger and Vortex which are like two of the best strains both in my top five or top 10. So that's a high ass bar >> or equally as good with a different uh >> mix.
>> Yeah, with something different at least.
Yeah, that's too nice when you get a combo, >> you know. Yeah, I say I think that's a valid that's definitely valid. If you're going to make seeds and it's not at least as good as what the parents are, why bother?
>> But, um, >> if it does provide something new, like if it was like a strawberry cross to a banana and you get strawberry banana, even if the strawberry banana is like not as good as the strawberry pure or the banana pure, some people want that little blend, I guess. But I'm with the trying to keep standards really high and make it better every time. And you know what else? I think maybe um certain parents might help inject like if uh I don't know but that cheesecake some of the c some of the offspring are just like the funkiest cheese that just like stank and >> in my opinion go ahead. Sorry I cut you off. And yeah, the like the cheesecake, the ones that I grew out of, the regular cheesecake never exhibited that, but some of the offspring definitely have a like crazy pungent cheese funk, you know? And uh so like a parent might be able to bring out different things that you wouldn't have that it may not be better, but it's equally good or at least, you know, different. Yeah, that's cool.
It just made me think about it. The um Purple Punch is an example that makes me think of that because the crosses often were even better than the Purple Punch itself. And it still passed like a insanely nice candy grapy flavor and insane frost like the level we saw on that Spartan puke or even higher just like insane like max level frost of tricom production covering the bud making it look like it's uh covered in sugar where um yeah some parents generally just breed really well. I think Rossa Jeff has one um an arise pheno king Solomon he calls it that he bred with for a long time and certain he found in lab testing that that just made even itself wouldn't test as high as the crosses it made. So it's just like a great parent which a good it's nice to have that kind of tool as a breeder. So have you tried any uh I genetics what updo?
Uh yeah, I grew uh what did I grow last year? It was a skunk. It was a tester a 90s skunk.
>> It was all right. It wasn't too bad.
>> It's interesting. I uh hadn't even heard that they were I mean obviously they do testing so if it doesn't meet their expectation or yours then understandable on that front. be more disappointing if you paid like high dollar. I know skunk was going for big big bucks for a long time. Four, five, $600 packs, maybe thousand dollars in raffles and uh then people would buy it and pop it and grow it and not actually get anything skunky.
So disappointing on that front for sure.
Um >> it was it was skunky. It was just uh it was like real leafy when it flowered out.
>> That's fair. That's how I kind of remember a lot of uh It >> did smell good though.
skunk. Even the buds I would get back in the day, you could see like tell um by how it was trimmed. It was a leafier plant and uh it was just tough to get every little nook and cranny and when they grew it in the volume that they were for the commercial market back then. This is interesting. Times change.
But um some people are like really die hard after the skunk. So, I'm kind of really excited about flipping this uh Death Star soon because that's the skunkiest thing I've had in my personal garden in a while and it's wreaking like skunken veg even like through my tent and carbon filter. So, abnormal for >> Sounds good.
>> I'm I'm really really excited about it.
And the roots on the mother plant like I've got it in my little uh oxy cloner and like I've been checking it and it like started off I was like, "Oh, it's got roots." And then like I waited a little bit longer and I was like I'm going to get this thing planted and I'm literally planting it tonight. But when I went to check it right before the show, I just couldn't believe how beautiful. Like bursting out both sides, like nice, long, healthy. I'm like, "Yes." And then I saw another one in the other. I was so distracted by how beautiful that one I was like distracted. And I saw another one's rooted. So hopefully some of the other ones go. But even then, I'll have uh more backups on the way. So worry not, folks, if you were um the Death Star list will get going. But I'm going to pass back to what up do growing. You can tell us more about the plants that we're looking at.
Uh, these are night owl seeds. Autos.
>> That's cool. Oh, yeah.
>> Banana. Uh, what was it? Banana OG times. One of them's Oh, I can't remember the crowd. I just know they both they both have the banana OG in them.
>> But OG gets me high as hell. So hopefully that makes it good.
>> Those those sit pots.
>> What's that?
>> What are those pots you got them in? Are those those sit pots? Sub irrigated.
>> Yeah, those the AC infinity.
>> Yeah, the selfwatering.
>> Yep, selfwatering pots.
>> That's cool, man. You got to water them.
>> The roots already coming in through the sides.
>> Yeah, >> that is healthy, dude. Nice.
>> Is there water? Is there a water line hooked up to those?
>> No, you just filled the bottoms.
>> Oh, you just filled the bottoms.
>> Yeah, you just filled it up.
>> Wicks. There's wicks that they're sitting on top. Yeah.
>> Uh, >> it's clearly working. I mean, >> now do you top water too or No.
>> What's that?
>> Do you top water as well?
>> Uh, no. I haven't just from the bottom.
>> So, just the very first like when you obviously you first transplant.
>> Oh, yeah. When I first >> Yeah, when I first start them out. Okay.
>> Maybe for like about a week or two and then I'll just start from the bottom after that.
>> And you have a little bit of this and a little bit of that. Like not all your tents are like this. What media is this in? What kind of a soil or is it >> This is uh What soil do I have in here?
>> It's soil, I guess. It's not like a cocoa or a hydro mix.
>> No, it's PE. This is just some uh old soil that I recommended.
>> Heck yeah, man.
>> There you go, T. You get you some of those those bottom feeders. You got a bunch of water, >> right? It'll keep it moist, too. Yeah, >> that does help. I I got to Yeah, I just got to get >> better than like the earth box which is more sealed up because I I don't get as much relative humidity from the gallons of water that I pour in there because it's like a sealed system.
>> Sealed. Yeah.
>> Problem is you still got to get the water up there. But other than that, >> yeah, be good for a few days.
>> There you go. That's like a if you're in a too uh humid place, you get the earth box.
>> Too dry place, you get one of these or one of those auto mats, too. I was looking at the moto mats. Yeah, those look cool too.
>> 2020 Menoscino killed it at scale with those. They switched to like an bottom watering in their green houses and they like improve their yields and plant health and stuff like that. So, I do think that there is >> really Why didn't you tell us that before, Jack?
>> I've mentioned this. I wanted to get him on the show. I feel like I need to just reach out on the worst.
>> We should. You absolutely should.
>> Definitely >> because they're the cool. He's super cool. He's come out in the past. We used to have >> I met him in Vegas here finally and I was like, man, we've talked so much and we finally were able to meet. So, that was cool.
>> That is cool. Especially cuz you won the comp contest. I mean, that's kind of a you have a little feather in your cap forever and the fact that you guys released like a cross with a strain that you selected or well grew for a competition >> and got to share kind of on the open source genetics alliance front like share that clone with everybody who competed which I think uh makes just a wonderful story and I'm glad that you guys got to connect in person. Uh awesome stuff.
>> Yeah, he's really really cool dude.
everybody there. I was able to meet four or five different people there. So that uh they had a booth and so that was really cool. So I think even Carlos was there which was cool and seen him forever.
>> I'm glad they're still rocking and uh doing their thing. It's nice to see people hang around the industry for a long time.
>> I love seeing that. That's the best thing when you see somebody year after year continuing to put in the work and sticking around and getting known for the stuff that makes it good. Uh, but I'm gonna pass it back to what upgra you got even more plants for us to look at.
We got uh more plants in smaller pots in this situation. So, I'm wondering maybe these are not autoflowers in this uh tent here.
>> No, these are uh photos.
These are uh I sent one of my buddies.
He does uh Alabri genetics. He does autoflowers. So, I sent him a cut of my uh insane OG and he crossed it to one of his uh rainbow. What was it?
>> Some sort of auto though. A rainbow auto.
>> No, these he crossed it to a photo.
>> Okay.
>> It's uh rainbow something. Oh my. Now I can't think of it. but he crossed it to one of his photos and then uh he sent me some seeds to uh test out for him to run and then I'm gonna pick out a couple of good clones that uh lean more to the insane OG and then I'm going to send those back to him and then he's going to uh put those in the auto autoflower.
That's like a little project we're working on.
>> That's cool.
Do you have a space where you can grow outside? You able to get some autofly get like a little autoflower patch going?
>> What that?
>> Do you have a space where you can do any outdoor growing?
>> Oh, me?
>> Yeah.
>> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I got a big big garden.
>> Oh, hell yeah. You can >> I'm just going to hunt these for him and then send him a couple uh a couple cuts that lean more towards the uh insane OG. And then he's going to do all the uh autoflower work cuz these are all photos.
>> Oh, so when he gets the back to you, you're just going to get some seeds.
Some autoflower seeds.
>> No, these these are all photos. But I'm going to >> Those are those are photos, but he's going to turn them to auto.
>> I'm going to send him the cuts that lean more towards the uh insane OG and then he's going to do the work and uh make them autoflower.
>> Yeah. But when he does that, he's going to hook you up with some of the seeds, right? Oh yeah.
>> Oh yeah, that would be cool. Then you get those seeds and you can pop like a whole pack outside and they stay short.
>> They won't get tall and you'll be able to just hunt them real quick.
>> Yeah. Oh, the what is it? Tangi Rainbows. That's the name of the crows he did. Insane OG times Tangy Rainbows number four. Uh F4s.
>> Nice.
>> Yeah, they look pretty good. Pretty cool, man.
>> See what happens.
So, I got to hunt those out.
>> You just going to flip them quick? Keep them in those size pots. Or you going to still pot them up and get them big?
>> I'm going to pot them up. I'll probably put them probably in like three gallons.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
Flower them out. See what happens.
take some cuts off the the ones that look more like the insane OG.
>> Can you tell right now? You still want them to still got to get them fly. You seen any that are really looking reminding you of the Asane OG?
>> Not really. Not yet. They all look almost the same.
>> Yeah. They got like little fat leaves, too. Like fat middle of the fingers.
It's kind of except >> for that one on the far right. That one's kind of more traditional.
Yeah.
I don't know. It's my first time hunting hunting seed, so we'll see what happens.
>> Awesome, dude. That's >> They look nice.
>> Yeah, >> little little I just transplanted them a couple days ago.
>> They'll take off here in about 3 4 days probably.
>> Yeah.
>> Seems like they want to fill up the roots first and then they just shoot up after that.
Yep.
Yeah, they look nice.
>> Hopefully it come out good.
>> Yeah. Well, one thing's for sure, you're going to get some good weed out of it at least.
>> Yeah.
>> Are these guys flipped yet or are you just these? I think these were the autos, right?
>> Yeah, these are autos.
Yep.
What light cycle do you like for autoflower?
>> I do 20 20 and four.
>> I found a lot of people get great yields and good results with that.
>> These were these were on 24 hours. I just put them in here today. So, they've been on 24 hours since sprout and I just put them in this tent today, but I cut the light cycle down to 24.
I don't know if I should just put them back on 24 because they were doing great on just 24 hours.
>> Some will flower. I I personally like a little rest cycle for the plant even if it can flower under 24. Maybe you get a little bit more yield, but I think you're going to probably benefit the tarpine and canabonoid production with a night cycle.
Yeah, these things >> these are only like uh shoot I think it's only been three weeks.
>> That's nice, man. They're growing >> almost four weeks. That's [ __ ] They grow so fast. Once they take off, man, they get going and they still got they probably who knows how big. Night owls got some good stuff. So, I've seen some of his stuff get monsters.
>> Yeah. Nidell's Nidles. Shout out to Night. He's a really uh good autoreeder.
I >> think he >> was he used to be part of uh >> Meistos.
>> Meisto. Yeah. Yeah.
>> They have been the only some of the only ones that I've seen testing up in the 25% range and also having tarpen. And it just when you smoke it, you're not going to be like, "Oh, this is an autoflower."
You're going to be like, "Oh, this is some dank."
>> Yeah.
Yeah, they look nice.
>> He's he's running GML lights, too. So, we appreciate you. Thank you.
>> Night hours.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Oh, that's cool.
>> Got like nine of them.
>> Wow.
>> I'm sure they got a pretty decent operation going. They've been crushing it for a long time. Their [ __ ] sells out, dude. Like, I see their [ __ ] is hard to keep in stock on the seed banks.
At least it was when I used to look at it.
>> Oh, yeah. Their stuff sells out right away.
>> I mean, and with good reason, you This is not just hype. Like their [ __ ] is consistently [ __ ] good and auto growers are going to buy more seeds all the time because you get one and done.
You know, it's over. You can, >> you know, but that's only two seeds out of like a 10 in a pack or a five or three or however many you get.
>> Yeah. He just did a photo drop like about a month ago, but I didn't >> I wish I could have get got in on it, but I missed out. Yeah, he released a couple photos.
>> That's awesome, man.
>> What was it? Um, sour Durban and then something else. A couple good ones. Yeah, I wish I could have grabbed them.
>> A lot of people don't realize that the autoreeders hang on to photo cuts to improve and work into their auto work to change flavors, canabonoid profiles, etc. So, it's uh awesome to hear that they're putting some of that work out there in terms of the photo seeds because they've been crushing it on the autoflower seeds for a while. That's like I would say from what it seems like the commercial end one of the number one most demanded things at seed banks. It's like fems autos fem autos and uh rags are like the least desired it seems nowadays. But um people love what they love and it in certain situations it just makes the most sense to have fem auto where some situations just regular fe are going to work and I personally love the uh regular seeds but I also growing some fems alongside them. So it's nice to have lots of tools in the old tool shed. Looks like we got a little veg situation or some seedlings going on here. Some cuts.
>> Yeah, some cuts. Got some uh these I just sprouted. These are a root berry from Blue Star Seed.
Blue Star Seed Company. Josh Blue.
Those are root.
They're supposed to be like blueberry with some root beer notes like sassifress.
>> That sounds interesting.
>> Yeah, >> root beer was a pretty hype one for a little while. Well, me and Jean from Mendescino did a root beer work or a cut or some seeds go around that were pretty desired. That's some that's ready to be planted.
>> Oh, yeah. It's getting in here for a few weeks.
Holy [ __ ] Yeah, I need it.
>> Oh, yeah. They're getting like You got some work ahead of you.
Well, we will let you give your final thoughts and shout outs so you can get gardening over here, Mr. What Up Dog Grow.
>> Hey, anyone ever uh clone peach trees?
>> I not sure what >> I took some cuts of a peach tree, but I don't I never Can you clone these?
>> I would probably Yeah, you could probably cut I think what I'd take some of those more of those leaves off. You don't need all those leaves. I'd leave >> take some off >> for what? Yeah, maybe half of what you have.
>> Okay.
>> And then uh keep changing that water out every once every maybe day or two.
>> Cubes in cubes. Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, I've seen it work with a lot of different trees. So, >> it might it's just going to take a lot longer because it's so so much more woody. It's just going to take a lot longer. So, just don't give up on it. I think it'll probably I think it should take it should work. I haven't done it myself, but I think it should work.
>> Okay. I might give it a try.
>> All right. Well, thank you for joining us. What up do grow? Where can the people find you?
>> Uh on IG. What up do grow 313?
And that's about it.
>> Cheers, man. Thank you again for joining us. I always appreciate you showing the garden. It always uh uplifts the show and it gives me something to hype for people to stick around and see at the end. And we're getting Tow with the last second garden tour here. Ta, what are we looking at?
>> Where can people find you? This is one of those uh chocolate tie like cheese cakes that uh yeah, she didn't have the happiest life. She's yelling out. She's pretty much done. I'm going to let her go for a little while, though. But I figured I'd try and show her >> good, man. You know, how is she smelling, man?
>> She has a stank, dude.
>> Oh, man.
>> It's not not chocolate. I can't >> stick some in a shoe box and leave it somewhere and let it cure for like a year.
>> Yeah.
>> But where can where can the people find you? Because we're doing our final thoughts and shout outs.
>> I'm the American one on YouTube and the American one_8s on the IG. And yeah, keep growing everybody.
>> Great to have you. Normally I save to for last, but that impromptu garden tour got me. So, I'm going to say last and certainly not least of our panelists this evening, Spartan Grown.
>> Thank you, Jack. Thank you, panel. Thank you, uh, everyone in the audience, either listening in later or live at the live action and the YouTube chat. Um, it's getting to be where I'm getting absorbed into the shows and I can't keep up with YouTube chat. So, I'm sorry if I miss something in there. But, uh, much love to everyone out there and keep growing everybody.
>> Y'all did so good with the shout outs.
I'm just going to let y'all know where to find me. Jack Greenog on Instagram.
Jack Greentock on the X and uh 50strains.com for well actually don't really have anything available right now. I'm sold out of books and uh the only people that will be getting anything on there is open source genetics alliance and only purchase if you receive a link and uh so we'll just go with that moving forward. But cheers to everybody for showing up. Appreciate y'all and catch you next week. Keep on growing. Growers love and uh yeah, do something nice.
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