How You Package Is How You Sell | Thomas Hultin & Peter Hauggaard, Ecolean | EP 389

本站添加: 2026-05-12

[00:00:00]Vietnam generates 3 million tons of plastic waste a year and most of it comes from packaging. Yet the liquid food industry, milks, coconut cream, plant-based drinks, is expanding fast, driven by a middle class increasingly shopping in modern retail rather than wet markets. Outside major cities, cold chain barely exists, making ambient distribution the only viable path to scale. Eolene, a Swedish packaging company, has spent nearly 30 years engineering an answer to both problems.

[00:00:35]A package 30% lighter than traditional formats, built from recyclable monomaterial film, and proven to drive sales. A brand called launched in Eollean packaging in 2015 and captured a market partly because the format itself became the product's identity. Thomas Holton, Group CEO, and Peter Hoggard, managing director of Southeast Asia, are here to explain why Vietnam is next.

[00:01:05]>> Good morning, Vietnam. Welcome to another episode of the Vietnam Innovators Podcast. I'm your host, How.

[00:01:09]Thank you for tuning in every single week and supporting the program. Uh, as we near our 500th episode recorded on this podcast, I just want to give a big thanks to everyone for following along because without you, this program would not be possible. Um, today we have one of our dear repeat guests. Uh, he was on the podcast some years ago, but we're having him back here today because his global CEO is in town, Thomas Holton.

[00:01:33]Um, Thomas Holton is a global CEO of Eollean, uh, which is a a company based out of Sweden, but they have global operations and quite significant here in Vietnam, of which, uh, Peter, the director of Southeast Asia leads. So, uh, welcome to the podcast again. Thank you for having us, >> Thomas. Thank you for making time. I'm sure you have a very loaded schedule through the whole week here in Vietnam.

[00:01:55]So, thank you for coming to the studio.

[00:02:08]Yes, we know our packaging solutions are not only future friendly, but also easy to open, receal, and loved by all generations.

[00:02:17]They're sturdy and steady, perfect on the go. And ah, a lighter package makes a lighter impact. Good on you, because hey, we're not the heroes here. You are for making a smarter choice for choosing Echolene.

[00:02:33]>> Um, let's just keep it very simple. Um, Eolene, lovely name by the way. The branding is very uh it vibes with I think the mission of the company too and um the purpose. But let's hear straight from the global CEO Thomas. What is your business exactly? What are you selling?

[00:02:50]>> So, Echolene is a company that has been serving the market for nearly 30 years u with uh machinery for the liquid food industry. So, we are selling the uh the package, the filling machine, the downstream equipment, also the service for ambient and shield equipment.

[00:03:11]And this is a a package and a solution that is developed uh during 30 years.

[00:03:18]And the project started in 1996.

[00:03:22]And with the engineering engineers in Sweden, we have now had reached a a period in the company history where we have a pipeline of plenty of new offers ready to be given to the market. And uh I think we have a really exciting journey ahead of us. And in that journey, Vietnam and Southeast Asia plays an important role going forward.

[00:03:54]>> Very good. And um Peter, I remember the first time I met you, um I was thinking Vietnam's got to be, you know, the the hub for you guys cuz for what you're doing, it's one of the largest growing populations and but it's actually you guys are are everywhere, not just in Vietnam. uh Pakistan for instance. I know you're a lovely old you know home base but you've moved to Vietnam more recently. Um can you share with me the context of the the region that you lead Southeast Asia and greater Asia? Why is the market so important for a company like Eagle?

[00:04:27]>> Well first of all thanks for having us.

[00:04:29]When Echolene set out on this growth journey a couple of markets were definitely targeted as the growth market. China, where Thomas was last week, is by far our biggest market. But the second most important market or region is Southeast Asia.

[00:04:46]>> And when we look at the South Asian market, especially Vietnam, where this whole transformation in the society is happening, we feel like we're exactly on the right spot. There's a huge premiumization here. There's the urbanization. We have the the growing middle class. And as a full system supplier, we feel like we are perfectly at the right time right now here in Vietnam because we can we can we can serve small companies, we can serve big companies, we can help them to go to market very rapidly because our machinery is extremely flexible as our as our packaging material.

[00:05:26]>> Okay. Um, and Peter, I I want to make it a bit more visual for our audience here, which we actually have some on display here. Um, so you guys focus on liquid packaging. Can you explain why it's so important in a market like Vietnam?

[00:05:41]Like, you know, what about the the retail business? What about the consumer habits that drive this solution to be innovative?

[00:05:50]I'd say the following that first of all uh as you can see and as all the viewers can see this packaging definitely stands out the traditional format of a cartonbased or a pet bottle. I mean that's very difficult for brand owners or brands in general to stand out in the shelf and as we all know the decisions are made in the store. They're not made when you write your shopping list. You come to the store, you see this stands out and then you got a couple of seconds to convince the consumer that this is what they want to buy.

[00:06:23]>> And that is of course one of the biggest advantages. Then our packaging is extremely light.

[00:06:30]It's very from a transportation point of view, it's very light. We have a sustainability approach which will become more and more important because sustainability as we discussed in the last podcast it's on everyone's lips.

[00:06:47]>> A lot of our audience today uh they work in FMCG uh they've worked around the world. Um are there any like unique cases in in Southeast Asia that highlight the need for a solution like this? And by the way, I'm kind of prompting you a little bit because I remember our last podcast, Thomas. Um I'm sure you listened to it on the way just to have a little context, but I remember you sharing a case study from one of your other markets how um in Asia it's really hot. Food spoils, beverages spoil. Um so the company that uses your product probably has to innovate based on that >> need which is >> ambient. um if I recall correctly, could you could you walk us through this the demand for that particular segment and why it's so valuable in Asia for the everyday consumer?

[00:07:38]>> I mean, first of all, we're a full system supplier. So, we can cater both for the chill distribution which is being built up in a company a country like Vietnam, but majority of ourselves here or I would say the line part of ourselves here is for ambient distribution.

[00:07:55]uh the case we spoke about last time was a case we had in Pakistan which blew the market away. What has happened here is that this brand Kun uh they launched in 2015 and what was so successful in this launch was that we managed to integrate together with the brand owner not only the innovative content but also it got connected to this kind of packaging. So for the young people with we had a lot of different varieties on um varieties on the printing etc etc. So the the packaging which of course for the ambient distribution became part of the total brand. M >> so they connected you know the consumers they connected this excellent content with the different packaging and it stood out and by doing so from I think we launched in 2015 we really managed to capture the market and the sales uh took off very nicely. Yeah, I I want to go back to Thomas. We talked about how the engineers and team back in Sweden, they're creating not only uh the current products that we see here today, but a huge pipeline. What are they innovating on exactly? Cuz I look at this, I'm like, okay, it looks like I can see why the the need is there. And and what you just shared, Peter, it's going on top of that, too. It became like the unique selling point of the product from a consumer point of view, not just the supplier, the brand, but like I'm thinking, is it glass? Is it like thinking like glass carton?

[00:09:24]>> First of all, I can we can conclude a little bit that the package format in itself has served us very well uh during many years and I think that now the time is uh there to develop the shape a little bit and we have a prototype. So now we are investigating if we can do some yeah we need from a legal point of view secure patents or uh how it will look like but we have a prototype ready h actually have it in my bag.

[00:09:54]>> Uh that is one thing that we are putting in to the market 2027 is the plan. Uh there is also an ongoing project which is in under implementation as we speak.

[00:10:08]We have done a 400 million sick investment in Sweden$40 million US dollar. So we in uh invested in a in a building and also in a film production line that is state-of-the-art uh where we are going to produce the film for the package which is fully recycled monomaterial and can be collected and re be reused.

[00:10:33]>> So this is what we are doing for the for the time being. So there are lots of project and I would state that the the period we are in under since yeah 12 months and going forward specifically it's the biggest investment program in Equal's history.

[00:10:51]>> You know I I did mention to Peter back in the day that I do want to go see the factories at one point. I say that to all the podcast guests by the way and I I have gone to a few. But to imagine like you know bringing this product and then delivering it to the hands of consumers especially new products that um have never been seen before are are pretty cool. So looking forward to that.

[00:11:12]>> But how as we state in the last podcast >> open invitation.

[00:11:16]>> Okay. Very good. Whenever I am coming to Europe this summer so but I want to time it with when you're there so we have to coordinate.

[00:11:22]>> I think Thomas can take good care. Yeah, >> I would.

[00:11:25]>> Should we mention about the reclosure as well?

[00:11:28]>> Yes. So, the new format that is developed, it's now together with a reclosure device. So, uh yeah, it looks very promising and I'm sure it's going to be a blast when we introduce it to the market specifically in Southeast Asia.

[00:11:44]>> I want to talk about the customers that you guys sell to which are primarily FMCG companies. What are they looking for from suppliers like you guys, partners like you guys? Because I, you know, packaging is is nothing new generally speaking and it's been in existence uh forever. And then to innovate on top of that, what what are the problems they're coming to you with?

[00:12:08]I'm just imagining I'm a client right now. I'm coming to you. I'm like, hey, I want to increase my shelf life. I want to increase the or decrease the weight of the packaging, hence my logistics costs go down. like frame for me. I I'll go over to Peter for a second. Uh I'm a I'm a Vietnamese FMCG client. What are what are the top three problems that they're coming to you with right now?

[00:12:28]>> Well, top of everyone's list is food safety.

[00:12:33]>> Okay.

[00:12:33]>> I mean, you remember last year and was it in Q1, Q2 when the government suddenly started to clamp down on all these counterfeit products? You remember?

[00:12:44]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:44]and and uh the whole retail just had a you know dramatic downturn because they went after all these counterfeit.

[00:12:51]>> Wow.

[00:12:52]>> When all these companies come to us, the first thing they talk about is food safety. Can you guarantee that the product that I put into inside this pack that it remains safe for the end consumer?

[00:13:03]>> That's number one.

[00:13:04]>> So what was driving the food safety issue? Was it like the food or beverages weren't lasting? They like >> No, there was counterfeit. A lot of counterfeit counterfeit.

[00:13:12]>> Yeah. Okay. and the food safety all the regulations that we have to follow they were not being followed. It was it was traumatic for the whole industry.

[00:13:20]>> So when you say counterfeit I see Thomas wants to add in here. What does that mean exactly?

[00:13:24]>> No but I think that the basic is there.

[00:13:26]I mean the problem of the headache is the hygiene of course to to keep and and follow the regulation. Of course that is the fundament that needs to be served and which we do of course. uh but I think that when we talk to customers over the years it's a journey and we need to develop according to the market and what is the need of incremental improvements during the that specific journey it comes along with a lot of things we are talking about the new shape uh we are talking about reclosure I mean if we go back in time in 2015 I mean when you saw the shelves uh and compare it with for today. I mean we closure different shapes. I mean the formats are so many uh you can choose in between so many different solutions. Uh and now we are going to >> do a new shape in combination with the reclosure. We are going with a uh recyclable film. So we are giving new solutions to the customers and what they need. But it's also a journey in many other areas as well. I'm talking about the uh the improvement of of uh the package very tiny small details that is always there in the background that we need to improve all the time.

[00:14:51]>> Well, the the manufacturing changes you have to make to actually accommodate the tiniest of changes which could be impactful on the bottom line or food safety or any of these.

[00:15:00]>> You're talking billions of packages. So every tiny detail that we can improve in one way or the other or logistic or distribution or uh down to the package again makes a big difference.

[00:15:12]>> Okay. So food safety is the number one concern that >> and also you know they come to us because they want to as soon as possible get into the market and we are super fast goto market uh because we're a full system supplier. We take full responsibility. So full systems as in from A to Z >> from the packaging machines to the you know the material itself to printing to everything. We take care of everything.

[00:15:39]>> How does it compare to other companies though?

[00:15:41]>> Well I mean there are a lot of companies that do the same but there are also a lot of companies that only focus maybe on the packaging material or only the filling lines etc etc. We take full responsibility. If you have a juice factory or you have a um coconut milk factory >> and you come to us and say can you fix this? Can we have the first product in the market within 6 months?

[00:16:01]>> Right?

[00:16:01]>> We can do it.

[00:16:12]Um, which makes me think like go to market these FMCG companies, the bigger global ones, right? They have systems, they have processes, but the smaller ones which are still sizable, maybe they're doing tens of millions of dollars of revenue. They prioritize that full service in a way. They don't want to they don't have their own sourcing team to like get five different suppliers to do one chain. they they just ideally want to go to one partner that can take care of everything. Are are there a lot of those kind of customers in a place like Vietnam or in Asia >> here in I mean I would say there are in Asia yes but in Vietnam the ones we are cooperating with these are the >> I would say the household big names like the Vina Milks, the Laf Nutif. So I mean we are constantly talking to these growing ones >> cuz I would also say you know the the bigger guys they they obviously need that food safety for sure but also the smaller segment they more even more need the food safety than anyone because >> uh you know maybe historically they were a bit sensitive on cost and so they you know but then a scandal happens and then they have to rush to solve it and then that's when they call someone like you guys. Has that demand picked up in in in greater Asia at all? Have you seen that as >> I mean we have we have grown into new and more I would say different categories that we were not catering for before like for example coconut product.

[00:17:41]>> So within a business segment >> exactly but we have managed to develop >> a safer solution for for example u the coconut industry which is huge.

[00:17:54]>> Walk me through the coconut industry.

[00:17:55]You seem very excited about this.

[00:17:57]>> No, it's just I mean both for the domestic consumption as well as for the exports to to all over the world, Europe, United States, etc. I mean this is the hub for all exports of coconut cream, coconut milk, >> desiccated coconut whatever. I mean this is >> most one of the most in demand product categories you can find right now.

[00:18:20]>> I see. So it's also like innovations within the company like like coconut milk. I'll be very honest with you. I've had it before, but it's not something I would like go shopping for necessarily.

[00:18:30]>> Yeah. But now it's like more accessible is what you're saying with these product. And so as a result, >> the business that was previously only selling coconut, let's say they now have a new product to offer that kind of thing. Okay. So food safety uh product innovation, go to market. What else is top of mind for some of these companies would you say? Well, if if I mean we are extremely flexible.

[00:18:55]>> I mean we we have different SKUs I mean sizes you can swap from one to another.

[00:19:00]We have extreme flexibility when it comes to the printing.

[00:19:04]>> Uh you don't need to buy you know need to produce six billion packs. We are very flexible. Our machines are extremely flexible if you want to start small >> scale and then grow it. So I would say that we are >> Yeah. I can't say we are the most flexible because that's not true, but we are very flexible.

[00:19:24]>> Okay, very good. Um, Thomas, I want to go over to you. Um, you're the global CEO, so Vietnam is a chunk of the business, but you've got a lot of other markets. You you visited China uh last week for example. Um, in this market of 100 million people, what is the one big problem that Eolene is trying to solve?

[00:19:46]I think first going back a little bit and summarize a little bit the performance for equal in Southeast Asia and Vietnam like I think we can summarize and and agree upon that we would like to see a little bit higher volume than we actually have seen. So we believe I believe I'm a true believer that Vietnam there is much more to to to give for equal. I think that during the pandemic and how we were positioned during that period, we lost some years and now we are going back to Vietnam with product innovation. Uh so I think that we are preparing ourself to retake the command a little bit from our side.

[00:20:28]I think we started off quite good in in early 2020 and then uh uh it never took off as we planned. Now we need to retake that into um 2026 and 2027. So Vietnam and Southeast Asia is extremely important in equal journey. So I think that when we talk about what we can offer the Vietnam uh market is that we have a simplicity in our solution. And I mean we have a package format and machinery that is in a way much more simple than the alternatives that we can see in the market. It's a preformed, it's pre-sterilized, it's heratically sealed, which means that the complexity at site to operate the machine. It's just to fill in the package with whatever you would like to have. if it's uh cream or milk or plant-based or uh yeah soft drinks, >> it's ready to go. And I think also uh Pete touched upon the subject as well that I mean if you compare to the alternative in in the different sizes of the package our package is 30% less in weight which of course makes a different during logistic distribution. Everything adds up to something. So everything is extremely good position for a market like Vietnam. And when we talk specifically about the ambient solution, I think that is that is key for the distribution to have ambient uh >> well I think the market forces are are going to play in your favor too. I mean you look at just Vietnam, they have invested and will be investing hundreds of billions into new infrastructure. So even the government mandate which is now cascading to the private sector is mandating that we need to be more efficient. We need to find sources of you know revenue growth or cost reduction that are not just like uh the inputs right um that a company can control but it's also the systems around it.

[00:22:34]>> Yeah. Um so >> and I think also to add the second part of this uh layer as well is that echoline we are now having the recyclable film ready to be introduced into the market and if I'm correct and read the statistic from the world bank of the waste in plastic 3 million tons I think we can play in part of that as well to reduce that. Now the infrastructure is not in place in Vietnam and not in many other countries to be honest either but when that is in place we can play a major role in reducing the waste overall. So with the new solution in in uh Lans Kuna in Sweden the new plant with a recyclable film we will be a part of the solution. Are those solutions implemented at the global level? Like in Sweden, if you go to the average supermarket, do you see those ecoin solutions or are they not really needed in a in Sweden at the moment?

[00:23:29]>> There's this new uh regulation uh coming in play inside Europe from 2030 >> called PPWR. When that is fully implemented, >> we are among the first ones to be fully compatible with these new regulations.

[00:23:45]So even the Vietnamese companies that are thinking about exporting not just to Europe but potentially other markets they have >> I mean you after 2030 assuming that everything stays at is that we don't >> so after 2030 if you don't meet the criteras of ppur then you can't sell >> okay interesting um >> it's not interesting it's a token it's a must >> it's a game changer in Europe and whatever happens in Europe sooner or later it will >> you know it will spread Mhm. Yeah.

[00:24:15]>> So we are extremely well positioned ahead of that.

[00:24:19]>> Got it. Um one of the solutions that you mentioned uh Peter is the whole system of of eagle. It's not just the packaging. Um why is it better for a brand to to to go that approach rather than handling?

[00:24:35]>> I'm not saying it's better. I'm just saying it's it's easier and it's safer.

[00:24:38]I mean we we do everything from installing the machine to making sure that you use the right spare parts. We take care of the logistics when it comes to the packaging material. We do the maintenance. We do we have total transparency on every single part of our production >> all the way from the transport of the uh the different components to our film to how we transport the products to our customers.

[00:25:05]>> So you guys make the machines that actually >> Absolutely.

[00:25:08]produce, but also like >> we are a full system supplier.

[00:25:12]>> Okay, >> you could come to us and say I want this to be up and running in 6 months and we could fix it and we take full responsibility.

[00:25:19]>> Okay, >> for everything.

[00:25:22]>> Did not know that actually. I actually did not know that.

[00:25:25]>> I was I was just thinking like okay all these factories around the world you're making the packaging and then you're shipping that over and >> you know it's up to the client how they handle that stuff. But no, it's the full system. How how big of a a business is that in relation to your like solely packaging business? Do you break down that >> that P&L? I mean, >> but do we talk about the service and the spare part?

[00:25:46]>> Oh, you mean the machines?

[00:25:47]>> Yeah, the machines. Is that like the bigger >> in the normalized situation? It should be around something like onethird of the company.

[00:25:54]>> Okay. Right now it's a little less than that.

[00:25:56]>> Yeah, it's a little bit less. I think during the pandemic and and the time after that the appetite for investment direct investment has been on a little bit on the low side but now we can see it's coming back a little bit >> and why why is it coming back? Is it just cuz market forces?

[00:26:10]>> I think there is a you know when we talk about equipment there is a life time to consider as well which then is also driving to have a rotation and also getting new machines. I think over a period of time there there must be an upgrade in in the system and that goes for equal and also for the alternatives.

[00:26:30]So the investment will come back but I think that the main driver of course in inflation and a little bit uncertainties in in the geopolitical uh room of course but also the cost of capital has been playing around a little bit because we came from a very low period and now it's it's a little bit high and everybody's everyone is speculating. you can go to yourself and >> and calculate the mortgage and the interest that we have been yeah paid over the last years.

[00:26:56]>> You could even be a financing business at that point. You can help these guys get the equipment.

[00:27:01]>> Has that been a consideration?

[00:27:03]>> We do that already. You do that already.

[00:27:05]>> We are flexible and I would say that and state that uh I mean Equin is a very flat company. I think also one competitive edge that we do have is that uh >> I am involved in all the business and all the uh negotiations. I think that uh we are a very flat organization and and very costdriven and that we take into the room when we talk to the customer and I think uh having that flat organization we are extremely speedy in decision making. So I think compared to the alternatives we are moving faster due to that we are a operating a a great company a big company >> in a small way.

[00:27:52]>> I I almost wish I was like an FMCG decision maker right now do a deal with you guys right now in the next 30 minutes.

[00:27:57]>> Okay.

[00:27:58]>> Um I'm sure like after this podcast comes out a lot of folks in Vietnam and probably actually potentially globally will be listening to this so they can understand how to speak to you guys. But I think that's that's also a good point, you know, um if you're a flatter organization. I mean, I assume you guys are much more nimble than the average larger scale packaging company. I mean, give me give me a landscape of the packaging um uh competitive landscape.

[00:28:22]Like where do you guys sit? You know, if I were to >> draw one of those like what do you call it? SWAT charts or something. You know, the ones where like you know uh if you're if you're up here on the box, uh you are characterized in a certain way, etc. Where do you guys sit in that general landscape?

[00:28:39]>> I think when we when we talk again about how we are organized and the mentality and the culture we are fostering in the company for the time being and now going forward I think it's extremely important to be down to earth and and see talk meet the customers. We don't want to have people in the office. We want people meeting having lunches drinking coffee uh negotiate of course. uh but until that day when you start a negotiation I mean there is quite often a big decision to take uh from our customers that they go maybe from a package format uh that they will change a little bit the identity and there is an uncertainty. So there is also a lot of trust involved in that discussion in that journey. So the average time to sell in our new package for an entirely new customer that is a journey that takes months and that demands that the great parts of our entire organization needs to be involved from all from the innovation to customer service and and the logistic and so dispatch and everything to consider and also we don't close any door and and put the paper to to the customer and say please sign on on page 32. I mean, we want to have a a lean process and the contract. So, we have maybe five sides on on the contract and we want to be as transparent as possible and we are not giving some kind of a rule. Uh coming back to you a little bit the question how can we solve and how how flexible are we? We are flexible to offer a solution that is acceptable and also quite often of course today specifically or during the last years to have a finance model and operate in different way that might be a model that works very good in in in Vietnam and another one in Pakistan and something else in Europe and we have the dynamic we have the tools we have a flat organization so we can keep control of the different offers that we do have out in the market. I I feel like you're recruiting me right now, Thomas.

[00:30:52]>> I I hope you get a few more applications for your business development positions after this. I mean, I'm I'm a salesperson, too. So, when I hear these things, it's very refreshing, right? Cuz the worst thing as a salesperson is when, okay, you close a deal, but then you have a stack of compliance. And I mean, you obviously need to have that.

[00:31:08]But then, how do you >> digitize or, you know, make that as easy as possible? Basically, that that alone is the biggest threat to getting a contract. Actually, it's not even getting a yes from a potential partner.

[00:31:20]It's like the processes that follow, right?

[00:31:23]>> Um, >> okay. Very good. Um, I would love to hear how you guys work with the brand to go handinhand with them to go to market or like, okay, I've got a new product like a coconut cream. My kitchen lab team has developed something that we want to go go to market. At which point are you working with the client to actually bring that to market? at the very beginning even in the lab with them like proposing market trends and what what yeah >> I mean we we it's like any journey uh the further back you go the better it becomes at the very end so so we have we have food specialists we work together with various ingredient companies so on a very frequent basis we would sit down with the >> decision makers or the >> yeah more maybe like the product development teams of these companies and we would try to understand what are the global trends. I mean if you would have said 25 years ago plant-based no one would have understood. I mean we scan all relevant markets for relevant data. Based on that, together with external partners like ingredient companies and the food specialists we have back in our company, >> we sit down and we suggest new innovative things to bring to the market.

[00:32:45]>> So, it's almost like, you know, a company's capabilities. Let's say they're a fruit company.

[00:32:49]>> Exactly.

[00:32:50]>> And they make fruit products.

[00:32:52]>> Exactly.

[00:32:53]you can maybe get a sense of what's going on in other emerging markets or even back home in Sweden and you can kind of advise like hey given what we know about your processes your production capabilities we think this could be an interesting product >> they play around with that and then you can almost launch it with them >> exactly I mean we we are super fast as Thomas says and I have to reinforce this we are super fast >> but we're also factbased >> we don't bring facts on the table to a brand owner unless we believe it could add something into the market >> and when we do that and we bring them through the journey and it successfully being launched of course >> I mean that builds trust >> are there any ideas you can share on the podcast today that have been interesting to you globally at least >> this is one uh the coconut is one that is growing rapidly >> uh everyone talks about particles >> what is that >> that in your drink you also want to have some kind of fun experience when you when you consume it.

[00:33:56]>> So, companies are looking into different kind of particles.

[00:33:59]>> Okay, >> that's very >> like the texture of the drink.

[00:34:03]>> Well, actually, you would have small small small particles in the drinking yogurt or whatever. Not bits of fruits or or but almost like different particles.

[00:34:12]>> The first thing I think is like boba tea like the the pearls, the milk tea.

[00:34:16]>> Yeah. For example. For example, that was impossible maybe 15 20 years ago. Now everyone talks about how can we apply these particles etc. And there's a constant development of all these different consumer experiences.

[00:34:37]Oh, that gets me um reminds me in the wellness industry nowadays, everyone's talking about having your supplements, your proteins and creatine, you know, whey protein and all these things. You know, people buy spend $100 on a carton of the stuff and then, you know, they put it into their drink. They take a scoop of five 10 milligrams of creatine, dunk it in their water, drink that. And I've seen a wave in the US where consumer direct to consumer brands are now which they sell digitally sometimes at retail to they'll actually put enough creatine into some sort of drink and then people are now paying a premium for that. Have you seen any of your you know partners?

[00:35:20]>> We have picked up the trends and seen it. So it has been something that came uh from my understanding for some time ago that exactly what you expressed that to have this you know you are dosing yourself uh to eliminate that moment and get it into your yogurt or or milk uh that is a clear trend and and uh that is going fast now >> really okay do you see any potential in Asia for those kind of things because in Asia I mean creatine is expensive it's not >> particular ly affordable by any standard, but people that are willing to invest in health and wellness are going that extra mile. Do you see that that happening in Vietnam? Not creatine specifically, but like supplements, health additions, you know, I think the Asian culture already has that actually.

[00:36:10]>> I think I think it's a global trend as well, but uh I clearly see it here.

[00:36:15]Let's say that you do.

[00:36:16]>> Yeah, definitely.

[00:36:17]>> Yeah. Like when I go to, let's say, the convenience stores these days, I I don't do it anymore, but I used to at one point where they would buy like they would create this packaged chicken. Do you see they like I know it's like like boiled chicken >> and then they put it in plastic and then you can just like have 30 grams of protein when you you just pick it up >> and eat it on the spot. Okay.

[00:36:41]>> I mean, you can heat it up, too. It's a thing. It came from Japan. Like if you go to like the likes of you know actually Japan does a lot of these kind of innovations. Do you guys work there at all? By the way >> Japan is on the list to go but I think that we need to focus and take >> markets are much more >> Vietnam is a clear focus. So we need to to stay focused that is a clear strategy as well.

[00:37:03]>> Japan is I can imagine very entrenched and it's got its own little things going on. So like when I whenever I go there and you see it actually being brought to Southeast Asia now like uh the one brand that comes to mind it's called Morayyama.

[00:37:15]>> It's a big FMCG brand in Japan. They very they sell almost nothing internationally. It's all in Japan but they sell these like um squeezable packs and inside them are like it's basically gel.

[00:37:30]And whenever I go to Japan I'm going uh in a few weeks I bring home a whole suitcase of it. cuz I love it.

[00:37:37]>> Like it's super easy. You have they have different types too. Some are flavored, some have different purposes. Like one is full of protein and one's just full of carbs. So if you want instead of like having a bag of potato chips, you can now have these kind of like >> um you call it I guess alternatives.

[00:37:54]>> Mhm.

[00:37:54]>> But I mean I mean Thomas is a >> meal replacements. Yeah. Maybe. I mean you're a marathon runner and and the the big trend in in Europe of course is all these gels, all these sports gels.

[00:38:06]basically speaking the same thing. But in Japan, they actually market it as a meal replacement, not as a performance enhancer. So, we're talking about in the sport industry, >> but uh and that's where, you know, the margins I'm sure are and like very niche demand and people are willing to pay premiums. But if you go to like these places in Japan, I'm sure China has it as well, they actually have meal replacements. It's not expensive. It's like 100 yen, which is like 75 US cents or something like that. So something to maybe look at, but I could not find it anywhere. It's not even in the US. When I go back home, you can't find it.

[00:38:41]>> But for some reason, it's all over Japan. And so they've created these convenience stores to be like >> um essentially meal replacements. Like uh they're all at the bottom of office towers. And whenever I would see a client in Japan, like just imagine you're walking through Shinjuku. It's like office tower by office tower. And at lunchtime, like bam, all the convenience stores get whacked. Like we're talking hundreds of people line up and it's just like a machine. It's like people get the same exact thing. Yeah.

[00:39:09]Essentially, I mean it's actually worth a trip. We should go, Peter. Okay.

[00:39:13]Actually, I think you you Peter Thomas, you would probably learn, you know, just a different >> and I I was thinking how could you bring that kind of behavior to Southeast Asia.

[00:39:21]It's not there yet cuz you don't have as many mass office tower complexes and stuff, but you look at Vietnam and all these office towers coming up and the IFC is coming soon. consumer behaviors will change because consumers will perhaps become a bit more sedentary.

[00:39:36]Metros will be available so they don't have to be on the the bike anymore and that that could create another opportunity to eat or drink rather than taking a motorbike, right? So consumer habits will will explode and transform.

[00:39:48]But I I mean considering the >> the ratio of modern train and traditional trade >> I mean and that itself with the urbanization and the >> people wanting the premium I mean the landscape now >> compared with what's going to happen in 10 years >> just the retail landscape.

[00:40:07]>> It's going to be you know a dramatic change.

[00:40:09]>> It's going to be a lot of fun. You guys got to be right in the in the middle of that.

[00:40:13]>> It's going to be a lot of fun >> if you can help lead companies through that transformation. Exactly.

[00:40:17]>> I mean, you know, I always like to say from a sales perspective, too, when you sell something to a client, the hope is that they actually take that and then make more money, too. Cuz then if that happens, you then make more money.

[00:40:27]>> And I I see in your guys' if you from the beginning, if you help them create that innovation, create actual new revenues that they didn't have before, you guys will also grow in that process.

[00:40:38]So, I, you know, that's a good mindset to to potentially keep in mind, >> but that is the full system supplier partnership. That's what it's all about.

[00:40:46]I mean for us only to put a machine there and then >> walk away that's never going to then we're not relevant for our customers.

[00:40:53]>> Yeah. So if you want to see Peter all the time buys one of his machines.

[00:40:59]>> Um Peter you work with a lot of Vietnamese foundaries of the likes of new to food. You know they've grown their businesses from nothing and now they're you know potentially billion dollar businesses. What is the biggest technical pain that you you see them facing? Is it is it the machines themselves or even maybe the training that goes along with it and the implementation? Where in that cycle is the biggest pain point?

[00:41:21]>> We don't have any big technical pain points to operate our machines is >> is fairly simple. M >> not easy but you know uh I' I'd say I go back to what Thomas said that historically the pain point might have been the investment itself but now that we have changed and we're much more flexible when it comes to the financing I mean I don't see any major pain points to be honest >> is it so when I say painpoint I I mean also potentially like um barrier of entry Like for example, I'm trying to just paint a picture a little bit. I'm a factory owner and a brand owner. What system do I have currently that is like inferior to what you guys are offering?

[00:42:12]Like is is it Thomas, you want to mention something? I think it's interesting and and by experience visiting now trying to literally meet all the customers and and visit a lot of plants and when you visit plants and our existing customers I I I had to admit that they do have machineries from from our competitors as well. But I think it's interesting when you are at the plant floor and discussing with the operators and when they only have a set of machines from one supplier, >> they are always very tempted on our technique because it's totally different. So they get excited because again coming back to the concept we are >> the simplicity is a word that continues from the beginning. I mean you get a package delivered to your plant. So the PL the filling machine in itself is rather simple compared to the alternatives and engineers in the plants among our customer they they get quite excited. I feel like you're selling me a car now. It's like a It's like a sport new sports car. I mean, it's kind of true. They they they they use it every day. So, it's they use it more than the car, actually. Do you do do you do do any test drives for these guys? Like, how does that work?

[00:43:35]>> You mean on a on a machine?

[00:43:36]>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we take them to any plant and they can drive.

[00:43:40]>> Very good. Well, I think uh we'll have a couple more takers of that after this hopefully.

[00:43:45]>> Sure.

[00:43:45]>> Very good.

[00:43:46]>> Sure.

[00:43:46]>> Um let's let's zoom in a little bit here.

[00:43:50]Um, we're nearing the end of the podcast, by the way. It's been about almost an hour now. Um, if a beverage CEO in Vietnam is listening right now and wants to double their market share in the next few years, what is the first thing that they should do to change their in their packaging strategy if anything?

[00:44:10]>> Well, they have to consider the sustainability part. We have to touch on the sustainability part.

[00:44:15]>> Uh, that's the first thing. Secondly, uh the easiest way is of course that they get in touch with us. we sit down, we have a discussion with them. Um, I think the differentiation, we come back to this all time, all the time. We we talk about how important it is and and we do offer a different last point of decision in the store.

[00:44:40]>> And and this is I mean this plays um a huge role for the for the end consumer and for the brand owners. They need this differentiation. I mean it it is crucial.

[00:44:52]>> So I I would encourage everyone who sees this um all the CEOs or the decision makers contact us. We will have an just you know sit down discussion talk about the pros and the cons and and then we'll take it from there. We are we are what we say.

[00:45:08]>> I mean the package is like the actual product itself too. People forget that it's not just the >> actual product but it's also the ease of operation. It's also the weight. It's also sustainability. It's like it's a multitude of different reasons why you should choose Echoline >> and they're good. They're good reasons why you should choose it.

[00:45:26]>> Thomas, over to you. Any comments on that part?

[00:45:28]>> I agree on everything of course, but I think also to to underline the importance of we are part of the solution going forward, the new regulation coming up back to sustainability. I think we are equipped now in our product innovation the road map and what we are going to present here with a new format in combination with the reclosure the new film that is fully recyclable.

[00:45:53]we have all the fun part ahead of us and I think that is the message to the CEO in Vietnam that Echolane is coming to the market with >> really good tools in order to open up and double up the the turnover. So I think that we have the fun part ahead of us come and join us. That is the message.

[00:46:15]>> Yeah. And I I think as we discussed with all these new consumer trends happening that uh may have not hit full speed in Vietnam or will very soon, you guys can accompany on on that journey as well.

[00:46:28]And I think um as a consumer myself, every time I walk into these convenience stores, I always try to find something new. And it's it's not quite there yet.

[00:46:35]I'll be very honest with you. like you see a couple new things every now and then, but how can you guys play a part in that journey of like get more cool things out to the market, get consumers excited? Um, and and that's what matters, right? They they get value from that at the end of the day. So, >> very cool. Um, >> well, Thomas, Peter, it's such a pleasure to have you in the studio today and to learn from you guys as well. Um, I want to go on on some of these market research trips at one point. So, um, Peter, I will be messaging on that.

[00:47:02]>> Sure. Um but anyways um to wrap up I always ask one last question. So we have you the two of you here today to talk about a number of things. Uh manufacturing, sustainability, consumer trends, a lot of cool things touched upon today, not just packaging. Um what's something that you would like to learn more about so that we can invite a guest onto the program and you can learn from them. So it doesn't have to be specific to Vietnam either. It could just be a general uh thing that's top of mind for you. So uh I'm going to go to the Eolene boardroom uh CEO and and hear from him what he's thinking about.

[00:47:38]>> No, but I think that one of the most important thing is of course to detect the trends to come that is always present in the strategy discussion.

[00:47:48]someone that is is uh seeing a future and also to summarize learning a little bit of the history right now it's kind of you know a turbulent period of political but I think that when the dust is then coming down a little bit I think that we need to be clear on what is the trend and how are the young generation acting and behaving because they are setting the rules and if you are going to detect the trend and and uh to go on the second wave and continue your growth journey. You need to be close to the younger generation. So I would like to hear a young person.

[00:48:27]>> Okay. I I actually have someone for you but in China.

[00:48:32]>> It's actually a high school friend of mine. Uh his name is Zach Dywald. I don't have a copy of his book otherwise I'd give it to you. He literally wrote a book about what Gen Z want in China today. And you know that that want has changed over time. If you look at precoid, >> um it was very consumer. Everyone's discovering new things. They have more income. They're buying new things. But we've entered this phase of more valuedriven, >> more savings. People are still willing to spend, but they they want that value, but also new edge. Um anyways, really fascinating book. I'll I'll see if I can get a copy sent to you, Thomas. But that's for China, for Vietnam. If you guys know any of the audience members think you can help Thomas with his question and his uh need, uh please let us know in the comments below. Uh Peter, over to you. Same question. Anything that's top of mind for you at the moment?

[00:49:22]>> No, I mean we are we want to be as relevant as possible for all our existing customers and new customers.

[00:49:28]And the better equipped we are being relevant, the better it is. So I secon.

[00:49:35]>> Okay.

[00:49:36]>> I want to talk to young people.

[00:49:37]>> Very good. Uh we'll we'll have to see if uh anything interesting comes up and and suggest that to the two of you. Um so Thomas Holton uh group CEO of Eolene, thank you for joining us here in the studio today and making time for us. And of course Peter Agard, the managing director of Southeast Asia for Eolene as well. Uh thank you so much guys and hope to have you back in the podcast another time very soon.

[00:50:00]>> Thank you. See you soon. Thank you.

[00:50:02]>> See you guys. That was another episode of the Innovators Podcast. See you next time. Bye-bye.