Wyoming AG Tried to Come After Me For Sharing Eli's Story- IT DID NOT WORK!

[00:00:00]There's a huge update. We have helped Eli secure a win in his lawsuit, but in the process, the state of Wyoming actually endeavored to try to depose me because I dared to report about the constitutional violations of their Wyoming Highway Patrol trooper, Kyle Han.

[00:00:28]What's up, you guys? Welcome back to Southern Draw Law. My name is James White, criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor, former police officer. So, I teased it a couple weeks ago on the rebuttal. But if you don't remember, last year we did a video about our channel friend Eli Pagansson. Now, Eli, who is a writer, he has the YouTube channel Eli Writes Stories. He wrote me last spring and he basically just wanted to run a case by me. He essentially got stopped by the highway patrol in Wyoming. He was coming through there on his way from visiting family in California and he was going back to his home in Iowa where he at the time was a medical student. It was like a textbook Kansas two-step stop where Han is one of these interdiction trained troopers. He gets in the car and he goes through this whole thing where he makes everything that Eli says and does look like it's some sort of behavior from a drug trafficker. Eli does what we tell people to do all the time, which is decline consent to search the vehicle after he's already been issued a citation. Eli is held in the trooper's vehicle for over an hour waiting on a K9 that ultimately does not alert to anything, and he's allowed to go on his way. Well, there's a huge update. We have helped Eli secure a win in his lawsuit, but in the process, the state of Wyoming actually endeavored to try to depose me because I dared to report about the constitutional violations of their Wyoming Highway Patrol trooper, Kyle Han. So, I'm going to tell you that story and I'm going to tell you why Eli ultimately decided that he was not going to take this from the Wyoming Highway Patrol and wanted to file a lawsuit. But before I do that, I need to tell you about the sponsor of today's video, chapter follow the money. That is a universal rule that you can use to guide you through a lot of bad incentive structures and a lot of bad outcomes.

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[00:03:53]Now, let's get back to the video.

[00:03:56]Hey, how's it going? Um, we're going pretty fast. Did you realize how fast you're going?

[00:04:01]>> Uh, 80 90 >> 87. Yeah.

[00:04:04]>> Yeah. Do you have your driver's license?

[00:04:05]>> Yes, I do. I'm carrying right now as well. I'm just letting you know.

[00:04:07]>> Okay. Where's that? Uh, don't reach for it. Just >> for my appendix right here.

[00:04:11]>> My wallet's on the left, though.

[00:04:12]>> Gotcha. All right. I'm just going to reach for my wallet here.

[00:04:14]>> Okay.

[00:04:16]>> Sorry.

[00:04:16]>> What's the dog's name?

[00:04:17]>> Kelsey.

[00:04:18]>> Oh, nice.

[00:04:19]>> German Shepherd.

[00:04:20]>> Yep.

[00:04:20]>> Okay.

[00:04:21]>> Yeah. I'm visiting from uh I just got I literally left Sacramento last night.

[00:04:26]>> Oh wow. Yeah, you're a long way out.

[00:04:28]What brought you out here?

[00:04:29]>> Uh I'm going to Mount Rushmore.

[00:04:31]>> Oh fun.

[00:04:32]>> That'll be a fun time.

[00:04:34]>> Is the only weapon is just on your appendix.

[00:04:36]>> The one on me and knife in my pocket as well.

[00:04:38]>> What did you say? Kelsey. Kelly.

[00:04:40]>> Kelsey.

[00:04:40]>> Kelsey. She >> She's very friendly.

[00:04:43]>> Okay. She seems friendly.

[00:04:46]>> Yeah. I've been sleeping at the truck stop.

[00:04:50]>> Okay. Hey, where did you sleep at?

[00:04:51]>> Uh, just a love truck stop back in uh back.

[00:04:56]>> Christ, I don't even remember. I've never been to Wyoming before.

[00:04:58]>> Oh, I got you. Um, >> I'm just pulling up my insurance right now.

[00:05:02]>> I can take a look at it.

[00:05:03]>> After like it just kind of got away from me. After a while, the road just kind of >> No worries.

[00:05:09]>> That works for me. All right. I'm going to have you come and sit back with me and I'll show you my radar. Okay. Um, but since you are carrying, I just want you to step out for me and I'm just going to remove it from you. Okay.

[00:05:19]>> Sure. Sure. That's fine. Yep. You're good. You like to open? Yeah, you're good. Okay, cool. I don't want to get in any kind of trouble.

[00:05:23]>> No, you're good. Just put your hands up and put it on your I'll close the door.

[00:05:27]>> Oh, you're good. She's all right.

[00:05:28]>> You can face towards me. Just put your hands on that. Is that right?

[00:05:32]>> Yeah. Right there.

[00:05:32]>> Okay.

[00:05:37]And then I'm just going to put this on the dashboard.

[00:05:39]>> Sure. Sure. That's fine. Do what you need to.

[00:05:45]>> I have my eye per my law. My Arizona is almost >> No, you're gonna have I'mma put the bullet right there. Okay, >> perfect. Yep.

[00:05:53]>> She's not gonna jump out or anything, is she?

[00:05:55]>> No.

[00:05:55]>> Okay. Can I pat you down? Make sure you're not carrying any other >> No, no, that's fine.

[00:05:58]>> And he said, "Yeah, can I put the knife as well on down there?"

[00:06:02]>> I'll just put this over here, too. Okay.

[00:06:04]>> I'm not hopped up or anything. Just letting you know.

[00:06:06]>> Can I uh What's this right here?

[00:06:08]>> I think my wallet or my keys? I can't remember. Uh can I grab it?

[00:06:11]>> Yeah, go ahead. Go right ahead. Go ahead.

[00:06:14]>> Nothing bad.

[00:06:15]>> And I'll just put this on that.

[00:06:16]>> Yeah, that's fine.

[00:06:20]Cool. All right, man. You can have a seat up front here and I'll just show you the radar.

[00:06:23]>> Yeah. Again, I'm sorry.

[00:06:25]>> No, we're good.

[00:06:26]>> I'm driving from like I was in Southern California two days ago.

[00:06:30]>> Holy lot different weather out here then, isn't it?

[00:06:34]>> I'm going from the snow in Iowa coming down >> and I'm >> What's that?

[00:06:40]>> Went from the snow in Iowa.

[00:06:42]>> Okay. to like this >> to >> from like I crossed the like four different states last night in five different time zones.

[00:06:49]>> Oh my gosh.

[00:06:50]>> Oh Christ.

[00:06:51]>> And where did you sleep at?

[00:06:52]>> I slept at a Love's truck stop. I don't remember what town. I just know that it was a one here in the state.

[00:06:57]>> How long have you been driving this morning then since you've been since you slept?

[00:07:01]>> I woke up at 6:00 a.m. local. Uh >> I think I've been on the road for about >> couple of hours.

[00:07:07]>> Six hours now. Seven almost.

[00:07:10]>> Okay.

[00:07:10]>> Yeah. Yesterday I did a whole 14 hour light hump. So >> how much sleep did you get?

[00:07:15]>> I got I got actually got a full like eight hours last night about six not six eight hours. I'm Yeah. But >> that's pretty good.

[00:07:22]>> Yeah. Yeah. Again, I am so sorry.

[00:07:24]>> This is how fast I had you. So at 87 Okay. And the speed limit is >> I wasn't actually sure what the speed limit was on.

[00:07:30]>> Yeah. Yeah. So any two highway >> in Wyoming is going to be 70 unless you go into like a small town. We have a lot of small towns. Got it.

[00:07:38]>> They always dip down then they go back up.

[00:07:39]>> Yeah. That's how it is in Iowa. Okay.

[00:07:41]Where in Iowa?

[00:07:42]>> Uh Waverly up north.

[00:07:43]>> Do you know where Harlem is?

[00:07:45]>> I've heard of the town.

[00:07:46]>> That's where my parents live and I have family out there. Yeah.

[00:07:51]>> Yeah.

[00:07:51]>> And then Council Bluffs area and all that stuff is where I >> Yeah. I I'm north of 20 minutes north of Wateroo.

[00:07:58]>> Okay.

[00:07:59]>> Yeah. Again, I was on handsree with my friends. I kind of just >> I I thought I had cruise control on and after a while the foot just kind of stays there >> because it's an empty road.

[00:08:08]>> 104. And so you're said that you're heading where now?

[00:08:10]>> I'm heading to Mount Rushmore. Oh, >> okay. What brings you out there?

[00:08:13]>> I've always wanted to see it. No, I was on my way through there anyway. So, >> okay. So, you have a What's your final destination?

[00:08:20]>> Back to I was going to cut through Wyoming anyway. I figured like Yeah. Stop in South Dakota.

[00:08:26]>> Definitely. What brought you down to Cali then?

[00:08:28]>> Uh family.

[00:08:29]>> Okay.

[00:08:30]>> Yeah, I got folks there and then went to go visit a friend's uh family back in Northern California.

[00:08:36]>> Where in Cali, are they? Uh my family's out of uh Palm Springs and my other friend's family's out of Reading. So Okay.

[00:08:42]>> Two different parts of the state entirely.

[00:08:44]>> So how long have you been on your journey then?

[00:08:47]>> I started yesterday in Northern California in Sac Reading. Went to Sacramento. It was a three-hour drive.

[00:08:53]>> I'm saying when did you leave Iowa though to go to >> Oh. Uh >> so how long have you been on?

[00:08:57]>> 19th.

[00:08:58]>> Okay.

[00:08:59]>> Yeah.

[00:08:59]>> Okay. So about 10 days.

[00:09:01]>> Yeah. Again, sorry for the trouble.

[00:09:02]>> No, that's what I'm here for, right?

[00:09:04]>> I know there's not a lot of traffic out here. Yeah. Yeah. And after after a while, you just, as I said, I didn't really see any speed signs if I'm being completely honest with you.

[00:09:13]>> They're like far so far and few between.

[00:09:15]You're kind of confused as to what speed limit is. And like especially down here.

[00:09:18]>> Yeah.

[00:09:19]>> Just confusing.

[00:09:20]>> Man, you seem very nervous. Arc. Is there >> I have anxiety.

[00:09:23]>> Okay. I'm I'm >> I got you. Do you take any medications for it or Okay. Yes, I do. Is there anything illegal inside the vehicle?

[00:09:30]>> God, no.

[00:09:31]>> Okay. What about marijuana?

[00:09:32]>> I don't smoke weed.

[00:09:33]>> Cool. Nothing illegal in the vehicle. No large amounts of US currency.

[00:09:38]>> No, I'm poor. I'm broke.

[00:09:39]>> Any heroin?

[00:09:40]>> I'm broke as [ __ ] dude. I can't even afford that.

[00:09:42]>> What about heroin?

[00:09:43]>> No. Nothing like that.

[00:09:44]>> Cocaine?

[00:09:44]>> No.

[00:09:45]>> Nothing. Vetamine?

[00:09:45]>> Nope.

[00:09:46]>> Marijuana?

[00:09:46]>> Nope.

[00:09:47]>> Just tired, man.

[00:09:48]>> No. I got you. Do you mind looking at me? Open your eyes for me.

[00:09:58]>> Yeah.

[00:09:58]>> Um, did you take that? Do you normally [clears throat] take it this morning or?

[00:10:01]>> No, I take it at night.

[00:10:02]>> Okay. Before bed then. Yeah. Yeah. I take in the I take twice a day. [music] >> I got you.

[00:10:06]>> Yep. I'm going to jail.

[00:10:08]>> Why would you go to jail?

[00:10:09]>> Oh, cuz felony speeding. I was like, >> oh no.

[00:10:12]>> I'm going to jail. It's like Christ.

[00:10:15]>> Utah, [clears throat] which has like an 80 mile speed limit pretty much everywhere. And then >> Yeah.

[00:10:19]>> Like And then Nevada, which has the same thing, and then I'm coming here and seeing, you know, wide open roads.

[00:10:24]>> Yeah. Yeah. I got you. How long have you been in uh >> Iowa? Yeah.

[00:10:28]>> Uh my I had my I uh I've been in Iowa for about uh since April.

[00:10:32]>> Okay. Yeah.

[00:10:34]All right. So, this is the speed and ticket. Like I said, only 84. So, I had to reduce it quite a bit. Um, [clears throat] especially plus you were wearing your seat belt, so that reduced it as well. Okay. I'm trying to work with you here. You got to work with me by slowing it down.

[00:10:46]>> I understand. I'm sorry.

[00:10:47]>> If you wish to contest it, you can do so. Date, time, and location is on the front.

[00:10:51]>> Or you can pay the fine. You can do it mailin, in person, or online. And all that's on the back of the ticket and a phone number if you have any questions.

[00:10:58]>> Okay, sounds good.

[00:10:58]>> If you have Do you have any questions for me, Eli?

[00:11:00]>> I don't have any.

[00:11:01]>> All right, you're all set.

[00:11:02]>> Thank you. really appreciate it.

[00:11:03]>> And I do have a question. Um, just from the the nervousness that I'm getting from you, um, is it okay if I search your vehicle? Make sure there's not anything illegal inside the vehicle.

[00:11:15]>> I'd rather not, man. Thank you.

[00:11:16]>> It'll be quick.

[00:11:17]>> No, I'm good.

[00:11:18]>> Why not?

[00:11:18]>> I'd rather just not.

[00:11:20]>> Okay. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. So, hold on for me. Okay.

[00:11:23]>> Sure.

[00:11:24]>> One hour later.

[00:12:18]Another good.

[00:12:25]>> All right.

[00:12:27]>> So, you are all set. Any questions for me, sir?

[00:12:29]>> No, thank you. I appreciate >> Do you have any questions for me at all?

[00:12:32]Do you want me to explain anything?

[00:12:33]>> No, it's okay. I understand.

[00:12:34]>> Okay.

[00:12:35]>> He's like body tremors, sweating.

[00:12:40]>> What are you thinking? Are you thinking weed?

[00:12:43]>> I don't know. I don't know. But something was definitely off. And he did say he was uh bipolar as well.

[00:12:54]>> Okay.

[00:12:54]>> Um >> he's got a pistol.

[00:12:56]>> He had a pistol in his waistband. He had the K9 in the back.

[00:13:01]driving hard from California to Iowa.

[00:13:04]Stayed a few days in California.

[00:13:07]>> Why is he coming this way if he's going to Iowa?

[00:13:09]>> He wants to stop at Mount Rushmore.

[00:13:12]>> Okay.

[00:13:12]>> Cuz he's never been before. Never been through Wyoming before.

[00:13:16]>> Okay.

[00:13:17]>> Um he was sweating too, like target locked. Um denied consent.

[00:13:25]Yeah. I'm actually >> after he reached out to me. I said, "Look, I I think this is a Slam Dunk Rodriguez violation. I did a video on it." As a result of that video, he gets a lawyer to file a lawsuit on his behalf. The video itself, Eli says, is the reason that an attorney ultimately decided to take his case. And somewhere along the way, they started into the discussions back and forth about how to settle the case. And right before they get to Discovery, I get an email from the assistant attorney general in Wyoming. His name is Prince Olive. And here's the email. Mr. White, we would like to take your deposition in a case involving Mr. Eli Pagansson.

[00:14:08]Respectfully, Apprentice Olive, Assistant Attorney General, State of Wyoming. Now, I am blown away by this. I think, well, surely they don't know that I'm just a lawyer from another state and a YouTuber, right? And keep in mind, my my exposure to Eli was essentially I just decided to look into his case. I looked at the video and I thought, "This is bad. It's a slam dunk violation, but you're not going to get any money." And I go back and forth with Eli and I'm like, basically, look, you're you're probably not going to get any money because they didn't rough you up. You didn't have any major damages, but this is what I think about it. So, this was my response email to Apprentice Olive.

[00:14:47]I'm an attorney in another state, have never been to Wyoming, have never met Eli Pagansson or the police officer involved, and have no connection to his case other than covering the interaction for media purposes. Do y'all depose members of the media for daring to report civil rights violations by your highway patrol officers? No thanks on the deposition, James White. It just honestly just pissed me off because I thought that sounds exactly like what a government would do. Instead of just going to this kid and saying, "Hey man, we're sorry. We screwed up. Let me pay you 20 grand, whatever, and let's end this because I'm going to look at the law. I'm going to look at Rodriguez and I'm going to look at what happened and I'm going to determine that there's zero reason for you to have had to wait for a K-9." And this is a direct violation of the Rodriguez case law. But that's not what they did. Instead, they tried to depose me. Now, in Prrentice Olive's defense, he was at least smart enough to note the sarcasm in my response to his email and note how much of a shitow this was going to turn into if he didn't ultimately just go away. And that's what he did. But I thought I would just share the response because I know you guys would get a kick out of it. I even reached out to John Bryan because I know that he's done a ton of civil rights litigation and he's the most popular law tuber in our space as far as civil rights violations goes. And I just was curious whether any government had ever tried to do this to him. And he's like, "No, I can't believe they tried to depose you." And so we talked back and forth or whatever and we we made sure that there were no filings that included my name or whatever. And I really just wasn't sure what they would do because coming to Tennessee and trying to spend taxpayer dollars from Wyoming to convince Tennessee courts why I should be compelled to have to give my deposition in a case that I had nothing to do with. It's exactly the kind of thing that state governments do all the time. They routinely spend tens of thousands of taxpayers dollars and ultimately spend more money to try to avoid accountability than they would have to spend just to settle the lawsuit. As I've told you many times before, people only care about losses when they're gambling with their own money. And governments don't have to worry about gambling with their own money because they're gambling with yours. So, at least Princess Olive was smart enough to take it on the chin and go away and not try to depose me. But I just thought it was a monumental display of hubris and ego and stupidity for them to even be willing to put their name in a written document to try to depose me under the circumstances. And I found out that it wasn't just an oversight. They actually knew who I was and they really did intend to depose me. However, I didn't tell Eli this. And the reason I didn't tell him is because what I really wanted to do was make a video about it and make Princess Olive look like the [ __ ] he must have been to try to depose me in the first place. But I didn't want to complicate Eli's case. I didn't want to make it harder on him simply because I was making content out of it and I didn't feel like it would be in Eli's best interest for me to make a video.

[00:18:08]But a couple weeks back, Eli wrote me and told me that the state of Wyoming had actually settled the lawsuit and they agreed to pay him $40,000 to get him to go away. He actually did have to sit through a deposition, which he said was very uncomfortable. And they ultimately did not get to depose Trooper Han or anybody else from the state of Wyoming. They found some expert out there who is a retired chief of police named Ken Walline, who by the way, they did a fascinating piece on a while back, the Utah Investigative Journalism Project and the Salt Lake City Weekly, and it went through Wallen's history as a side gig where he's made no doubt hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years basically being expert witnesses. But in in the the interesting part of this article, and I'll link it in the description of the video, is that these cases that he's been called on to be an expert in have paid out millions of dollars in misconduct penalties because the courts or the juries ultimately saw it differently than he did. And if you read through this article, you could come to the reasonable conclusion that Walline may not have ever seen a police misconduct case that he couldn't defend. So obviously his opinion didn't carry very much weight with the state of Wyoming because they ultimately stroked Eli a check for $40,000 to settle the lawsuit.

[00:19:28]Now one thing that's interesting about Eli and his background is that the part of the reason that he decided ultimately to sue was because he's been a victim of police misconduct before. And I didn't know this about him when I did the video. I I learned it in the process of getting to know him a little bit when he was telling me about the case wrapping up. He was part of a false red flag claim when he was a student in California. And if you look at this, you'll actually see uh that it's the truth about guns is the publication and it says targeted at age 14, the human toll of red flag laws. And you can see this is Eli. This is our young traveler from our story. And it goes through and explains the story about how Eli's life was basically ruined because he ultimately got expelled and kicked out of school because California officials falsely identified him as a potential school shooter. And so, you know, it goes through his whole thing and I'm not going to I'm not going to tell the whole story, but I'm going to link the article in the description so that you'll be able to uh take a look at it for yourself. But it just goes to show how law enforcement officers are quick to judge anybody that's taken medication or that has any sort of mental health. And they do all of that, right? And they and their their whole position is, "Oh, should that guy really have a gun?"

[00:20:47]Meanwhile, the guys in Pasadena, California are flagging each other and shooting each other accidentally. And police officers are setting their guns down on the table, unloaded, and letting their kids pick them up and shoot each other all over the country. Developing tonight, two kids are hurt after an offduty deputy's gun accidentally goes off. Fox 35's Lissa Leon is live in Orange County tonight. Lissa, how are the kids doing?

[00:21:12]Well, Lanne Marissa, officials say the children are in stable condition, only suffering minor injuries. Now, here's what we know about what was unfolding there. The sheriff's office says an offduty deputy was cleaning his personal gun when it went off, firing a single shot. One of the kids was shot, the other hit with sharpel. Both were taken to the hospital and deputies say their injuries are not life-threatening. I spoke with the law enforcement training expert Steve Kelly. He says there are few cardinal rules when it comes to gun safety, even for professionals.

[00:21:44]>> Treat every firearm as if it's loaded and don't let it point at anything you're not trying to destroy.

[00:21:54]The sheriff's office says this is still an active and ongoing investigation.

[00:21:58]Once we learn more, we will bring it to you live on air. Loris Leone, Fox 45 News.

[00:22:06]>> Oh, and by the way, out of the other side of their mouth, they're squalling about how nobody cares about police officers mental health and it's a big deal. Well, it's okay for you guys to have mental health issues and be trusted with guns, but nobody else, right?

[00:22:17]because you're the only ones that are trustworthy and make awesome decisions all the time, especially with guns in your hand. So anyway, I just wanted to give you guys an update. It it was a privilege and Eli has apologized to me over and over and over again about the trouble that it caused because of the fact that I had to, you know, contend with an email from some [ __ ] assistant attorney general who I hope never lives down the stupidity of having the audacity to write a YouTuber and ask them for a deposition because they dared utilize the First Amendment to draw attention to the constitutional violations of highway patrol trooper Kyle Han. on. I hope that everywhere you go, Princess Olive, everybody you ever meet who has ever seen a video on YouTube calls you a [ __ ] [ __ ] for trying to depose a YouTuber for daring to tell a story about a constitutional violation and overreach on behalf of police department. I hope that you're never stupid enough to do that again, but I did want to wait until it was in Eli's best interest. And I know for sure he's got his money in his hand now, so that's why this video is getting released now instead of way back when when I wanted to do it. But anyway, I hope you guys got something from the story. It was a privilege to be able to be part of something like getting a guy some money. It was the first time in what I hope to be very many times in the future where people that we feature on our channel can successfully sue and get money and have some semblance of their experience meaning something and have their feelings and their violations validated because we dared to cover it and push back against the government.

[00:23:55]Anyway, hope you guys got something from the telling of the story and I hope you'll go give Eli's channel a like and just consider that just because somebody's got mental health issues doesn't mean that they necessarily are dangerous people. So, I'd like to invite you to check us out on all the socials.

[00:24:11]I'll put up a QR code here for you to scan with your phone. That'll take you to the link tree site. You can check us out on YouTube, Facebook, Tik Tok, and Substack. Hope to see you on one of those platforms in the very near future.

[00:24:20]Please remember to like and subscribe and leave a comment on the video. It's how we show YouTube that other people enjoy the content and get them to push it out to other audiences. It's how we grow. So, please remember to do that.

[00:24:32]Let me know what you guys think of Eli's story. And until I see you again, take care. Always film your interactions with the police and keep your evidence to yourself.