How the Occult Secretly Shapes the West | Dr Abdullah Sueidi

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[00:00:03]Hello everyone and welcome to blogging theology. Today I'm delighted to talk again to Dr. Abdullah Swed. You are most welcome sir. Assalamu aalaykum.

[00:00:13]>> Asalam. Thank you very much for having me here.

[00:00:16]>> Well, and you're in Medina, I understand.

[00:00:19]>> Yes, I'm in Medina. Alhamdulillah.

[00:00:20]>> Fantastic.

[00:00:22]>> Good stuff. I'm in London. Um, so for those who don't recall, uh, last time Dr. I was a guest. He is a Swedish convert to Islam who holds a PhD in Islamic theology and is a specialist in topics related to atheism. He has been teaching uh in Al Masid and Nabi and the Islamic University in Medina and has been active in teaching Islam in Sweden for over 15 years. Dr. Abdullah has kindly agreed to give us a talk uh today about the occult and western esotericism in the light of Islam. Now I admit that this I admit to knowing very little uh about this subject. So I'm particularly looking forward uh to learning about it from an Islamic perspective. So over to you sir.

[00:01:15]>> Thank you very much. Uh I have a presentation with me. I was just see how I >> Okay.

[00:01:23]>> Yes. Like that. Yeah. Uh so uh the topic that I'm going to talk about today is western esotericism and occultism in the light of Islam. And uh the purpose of this presentation uh uh is to give an introduction to the subject like uh you mentioned Paul but many people they they don't know about the this subject but it's uh like you will see it's a very important subject when it comes to uh understanding western thought understanding western uh culture because uh it's very influential and it's also very important to show another side of the west and I will speak about that later because uh this is a very it's very influential in the west uh generally and uh many people don't speak about it. So the west usually presents itself as very modern, rational, scientific, materialistic and so on. But this is another side of the west and it's very influential and it's very important. So uh I will speak about that and I will also speak about how we can learn more about the subject the academic research on the subject and then I will give an explanation of the Islamic position of different things that are common in western esotericism and occultism.

[00:02:49]Uh first of all uh this uh this word that they're using uh it's a new uh it's not it's not been used for such a long time. It's called western esotericism.

[00:03:02]So it uh it's only about the the traditions the esoteric traditions in in the west uh in Europe and and USA and it excludes esoteric traditions in other parts of the world like esoteric traditions in the Islamic world or in Hinduism and Buddhism and so on. So this is specifically about the west.

[00:03:25]Esotericism uh it's a Greek word from esotericos it means the inner circle. So you say esoteric it's something inner and exoteric it's something outer. So when you speak about an esoteric meaning of uh the text you speak about the deeper the hidden meaning of a text and you speak about the exoteric meaning it's something outer. So esoteric is something inner and it's usually secretive and uh and it's hidden from most people and so on.

[00:04:01]So uh how do the scholars define western uh esotericism?

[00:04:07]This is one of the longer definitions that I mentioned. uh western esotericism is used as an umbrella term for a wide variety of historical traditions that were traditionally neglected in academic research. So uh it's an umbrella term used by uh scholars and researchers. So you don't will not find people that say that they are western esotericists. So this is not a term used by these people themselves. It's a term used by scholars and researchers uh who have been studying this subject and it has traditionally been neglected in academic research. So uh if you go back to scholarship uh before the uh mid 20th century you will not see that scholars have spec specific side uh or spoke about this uh subject uh specifically in academic research or in books or articles and so on but it started on uh in the in the late 60s in the 70s and it really started to be famous in the English speaking world in the '9s and now in the 21st first century. So it's something that is uh very new but the subject that they are studying is something old. Mhm.

[00:05:27]>> Uh it includes uh gnostic all old gnosticism uh hermetic ideas uh and other uh theor theorical currents in late antiquity and also the occult sciences like astrology uh magic and so on and also Jewish and Christian cabala theosophy ricroianism illuminism occultism spiritualism and all of these other uh subjects that usually uh and uh today uh new age movement and new paganism and uh these other uh currents that we can see now that are quite influential in western culture.

[00:06:12]>> I just you mentioned the the theological currents in late antiquity. uh I've just seen on the dictionary there uh the uh I think it's pronounced is uh the operation or effect of a supernatural or divine agency in human affairs. It's one definition or a system of white magic practiced by the early neoplatanists. Um I was speaking on the third character >> u yeah so u to summarize it's a umbrella term used by uh used by scholars to that they try to find something that can describe all of these things together.

[00:06:51]Uh so uh in the end of the day you will not find that people uh in the late antiquity used to speak about the self as uh esoteric western esoterics or that uh occult people new age people describe themselves as that today but this is a term used by by scholars.

[00:07:12]uh occultism uh the definition is uh occult theory or practice belief in or study of the action or influence of supernatural or supernormal powers. So all the kind of things where people try to connect with super uh natural powers usually the jin uh like magic and divination and sorcery and uh even astrology and other things. uh these are all things that are under the umbrella term of oultism. Even oultism is a new word but uh uh it hasn't been used for such a long time but nowadays it's used in the academia.

[00:07:56]Uh so what is esotericism? If we can see the two main currents in uh the history of uh western thought, we have the Greek rationality or Greek philosophy and we have dogmatic belief Christianity and esotericism is somewhere in between those. So Greek rationality is based on things that can be verifiable that you can verify it and like modern science today is based on uh this uh these principles that if you want to speak about something spec specific you have to uh verify what you can speak about.

[00:08:38]Of course, there were different Greek philosophers and they were speaking about different subjects and so on. But this is uh the main thing that you have to uh verify what you're speaking about and it's not just dogmatic belief. You can you you have to criticize everything. You have to try to find the the the conclusion based on rational thinking.

[00:09:00]>> And the other thing is dogmatic belief.

[00:09:03]And of course uh religion like Islam is based on uh rational uh rational arguments for the existence of God and that he's the only one worthy of worship and uh the science of prophethood and so on. But in religions there are some things that are based on dogmatic belief that you just have to believe in them based on what uh the messengers uh and the prophets have said. So uh like go to some of the description of paradise and hellfire and so on. Uh we believe in it just because uh the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam told us about it and just because it's mentioned in the Quran and allahel revealed it. So it's not something that can be verified by others uh trying to look it up through scientific methods and so on. So you have Greek rationality and you have dogmatic belief and esotericism is not part of the philosophical tradition, the Greek philosophical tradition even though they take some things from Plato and it's not part of the religious uh dogmatic belief. it's somewhere in between and it's usually based on experience and not on um authorative scripture nor on uh nor on uh like rational arguments. So it's things that you have to experience yourself and it's things that transform you as a human being when you uh when you experience them and it's usually based on secrecy too. So uh esotericism is usually spread in secret societies or in uh smaller groups and you get initiated to the group by experiencing some specific things through rituals and so on. So in this way esotericism is not a part of the Greek rational uh the the philosophical tradition nor the Christian or Judeaic uh tradition.

[00:11:15]Yeah. Uh anything do you have any question about these things and so on?

[00:11:19]>> No, not so far. Um very interesting indeed. Uh I like the contrast between those three particular uh groupings as you describe them. Very interesting.

[00:11:27]>> This is something mentioned. I studied a course in Swedish university a scholar his name is Hen Bogdan and he's one of uh the most famous scholars about western esotericism and he mentioned this three like the three different systems that they have in western culture >> uh yeah uh and also uh esotericism is called rejected knowledge rejected knowledge because the things that you >> uh it has been rejected by uh the church has been rejected by other philosophers and it's been rejected by modern science and it has also been rejected by the academy itself. It has been studied. So uh it has been rejected in many ways even though it has been very influential amongst different thinkers and different uh societies and uh even politicians and people that have a lot of influence in in culture and so on. But uh it's not something that you speak about. It's not something that the west usually uh show about themselves. Like usually when they try to portray themselves, they portray themselves in one way. But you can see at the same time some of the greatest western thinkers they have been dealing with these things in private or in different secret societies and so on. So this is one of the interesting things that I uh I think really has to come out and we have to speak about is that we have this uh front side of the west or the this the way that try to present themselves and at the same time you can see many of the thinkers and politicians and other influential people they have had at the same time they have been uh been indulged in these esoteric uh societies or uh different uh occult things and so on. So >> this is particularly interesting what you're saying here. you say that western esotericism shows another side of the west that is not usually presented um uh and even though it's pretty widespread you say hopefully you're going to be showing us examples widespread among scholars and thinkers in western culture and I can't have a reminder because I don't really know anything about this subject but for my own little bit of reading is is someone called Isaac Newton the great English scientist discover of gravity and optics and so on um his secret passion and he was passionate not because he was involved in the occult but because he had to keep his religious interest secret because he was technically a heretic. He did not believe Jesus was God. He he understood that uh some of the early Christian manuscripts have been corrupted. A trinity verse had been added and so on.

[00:14:14]So he is all very esoteric but he wasn't esoteric because the subject was somehow a cultlike. It was hidden because if he had been exposed, he would have at the very least lost his job at Cambridge. At very worst, he'd have been ex uh executed. But his public persona was very rational, scientific, based on on rationality, this Greek attitude you call it. So there's a similarity there with Newton even though it's not quite what you're talking about.

[00:14:41]>> Yeah. Yeah. At the same time he he wrote many books about the the like he had occult studies and he was interested in rousianism and so on.

[00:14:49]>> I didn't know that. I didn't know that actually. So you taught me something there. That's interesting.

[00:14:53]>> You you just write about Newton and occult studies and you will see >> that he was he's probably a very one of the most famous examples in England.

[00:15:03]Yeah. Okay.

[00:15:05]>> Uh okay. Uh western esotericism a very short history. I will speak about the late antiquity, middle ages, renaissance, enlightenment and the 19th and the 20th century inshallah.

[00:15:18]First of all, western esotericism during late antiquity. When scholars mention uh western esotericism, they said that it really started during the helenistic culture. uh the hellistic culture was a like a mixed culture between Greek philosophy and different indigenous religious traditions especially from Egypt but also from Persia and so on. So the Greek philosophical tradition was mixed together with these religious traditions especially Plleonism. So platonism was transformed during the hellistic era uh into a religious worldview and it focused on attainment of salvational gnosis. So they took the some of the Platonic uh ideas that he had and they made it to religious uh religious worldview and this is something that we can see in uh hermitism and also in gnosticism that they took some of the ideas from Plato and uh they mixed them with other things from uh old uh Egyptian religion and other religious traditions. So one of the uh famous traditions uh was hermitism and it was attributed to someone called her tric megus. Uh he was probably it was just a legendary person but there are many books ascribed to him especially that book that is called corpus helmetum uh in the second or third uh century CE.

[00:16:56]So uh you can see that his tradition has been mentioned and has been revived and you can see that until today many of the secret societies or the asteric societies they take things from her majus or they ascribe things to him. And uh when Christianity started there there were some Christian sects the agnostics they were declared as heretics by the church fathers and many of their manuscripts were found in Nagamadi.

[00:17:30]And when they found their uh their different books and so on, they could get an insight to the world of diagnostic diagnostics in in the second third century and so on. And they were also part of the uh western esoteric tradition.

[00:17:50]Uh when they tried to find salvation through gnosis, they they found they said that they were entrapped in a dark world and this was something that comes from inside of you uh to to find the light inside of you through uh some kind of sacred knowledge.

[00:18:09]Probably you know more about gnosticism.

[00:18:11]No, the wordnostic uh in English comes from the Greek word uh no uh the Greek equivalent meaning knowledge. That's what the word means literally means knowledge. Uh the wordnostic uh and so it's this secret knowledge that you uh attain and that's your way to salvation in some way. Yeah.

[00:18:28]>> You can also see that many agnostic elements can be found in in different esoteric groups throughout the renaissance and later days and so on.

[00:18:38]And then you had the neoplatonists uh that practice uh theology uh divine magic when they try to invoke the deities to find some kind of unity with them. Uh so this is an other form they had the the this kind of magic and they had ritual magic. So there there are different kinds of magic but this is one form of magic that they had and that they pract practiced and they were also part of uh the western esoteric uh tradition. So you can see that many later esoterics they go back to the neoplatonist tradition.

[00:19:18]uh like I say it's just a very short presentation to go through to get some kind of understanding of uh of western esotericism.

[00:19:26]>> Uh during the middle ages uh the esoteric traditions especially like neopaganism and agnosticism were pushed back by the church because uh uh the church fathers were uh very pmical when it cames to when it came to neopaganism and when it came to agnosticism and so on. But many of the books erh from the hellenistic era were kept in the Islamic world and translated to to Arabic. So it's famous that many of the word uh many many of the philosophical books were translated to to Arabic uh from Greek but also many esoteric books were translated. So uh magic, astrology and all of these occult sciences were translated to Arabic and kept in Arabic and then it was translated to Latin uh during the the later parts of of the Middle Ages. And one of the traditions that grew up during the Middle Ages was Kabala. And Kabala is part of the U Jewish esoteric tradition. they themselves they claim that it's much older than that but scholars they usually say that it started uh in in Spain during the 12th century um but Cabala was like um an intermediate between the esoteric tradition that was translated in the Islamic world to come to uh Europe after that. So cabalists, Jewish cabalists, they came uh when uh when the Christians took over uh Spain and also when they took over uh they they moved to to Italy and so on. They brought with them this whole esoteric tradition that has been mixed with old thoughts from the Henistic era with some Jewish theology and so on. So the Jews, the cabalistic Jews, they were the ones that brought the esoteric tradition to the west after it has had been repressed during the middle ages >> and many books were translated from Arabic to Latin after the fall of Toledo in in Spain uh 1085.

[00:21:45]So uh many of the the philosophical works and scientific works and so on but also some of the esoteric books were translated to Latin during uh that time.

[00:21:57]Uh another organization that was very uh influential when it comes to uh the asteric tradition were the Knights Templar. uh they were they were very influential during the crusades and they they like ruled the banking system that they had during those days uh for about 200 years and they were fighting over there in in in Palestine.

[00:22:22]But when they came back uh after they they failed in the crusades, they were repressed by King Philip IV in uh 1307.

[00:22:32]And part of the accus accusations that were uh they were accused of was that they were indulged in different esoteric and occult uh practices when they were over there in h in Jerusalem and were over there in the Muslim world and so on. They were accused of different different things but these are some of the things and you >> they got I think they got into trouble with the the inquisition uh over their alleged activities. there. It was probably one of the excuses or reasons to to attack them or even suppress them later on. Uh they're allegedly it was based on political uh political agendas and so on. But the accusation that was raised against them was that they were indulged in occult and esoteric practices. And you can see that many of the uh esoteric societies or the secret societies they uh they use different symbols of the night knight's templar.

[00:23:34]So you can see like in Freemasonry that many different symbols uh from the Knights Templar or even like they have some grades that are based on the Knights Templar. So, and you can even find that some historic u uh some people who write history of the Freemasons themselves, they say that the Freemason came from the Knights Templar even though other historians they say that this is not historical. Uh it's not this like a very big gap between that time and so on. It's it's very hard to to know history. But we can see that these societies they take many of the symbols and other things from the Knights Templar. So there is some kind of link there even though it's only in their imagination. You can see like uh the Freemasons of Sweden their symbol is the same cross the the red cross that is uh uh the red cross of the Knights Templar. This is their symbol that they have on their buildings and so on.

[00:24:36]>> Yeah. You can even see like pictures of them. They're dressing up when they're going to to their rituals and so on.

[00:24:42]They're dressing up as night templars like they're wearing the suits and so on. So they are ascribing themselves to the Knights Templar.

[00:24:52]Is it really this this connection? Can I go back to them? That that's another thing. It's very hard to know, but it's in their imagination.

[00:25:01]>> Yes. Well, what I like is number two there. you put the the carb is thought to have started in Spain during the 12th century. Of course, Spain didn't exist and we're talking about Islamic Spain.

[00:25:11]This is is during the time of Islam and and the uh the main text of the carba is still very popular. The Zohar Zh it's the main source book of the the Kbala and that was produced in Islamic Spain by Jews and you know some have said it's heavily influenced by Sufism actually. So there might indirectly be an Islamic influence on uh Jewish mysticism in a text which is the still the central text of Jewish mystical tradition today. It very popular in America and and elsewhere. So the connection of Islam and Jewish mysticism are are there in Muslim Spain in the 12th century >> definitely because uh the Muslims were the one that translated these books and you can see was like with all of the books that was translated pro from the Henistic era books of science and books of philosophy and so on. Usually Muslims when they translated they added other things to them. So do you have like philosophical books that were translated from from Aristotle and from Plato and so on and then you can see that some Muslim philosophers they would like adding things adding uh explanations and so on to to these books. Same things with science and they developed the science and the same thing when it comes to esoteric tradition that they developed it in in in different ways. So there is probably some kind of uh influence there. Yeah.

[00:26:34]Uh then during the Renaissance uh the Renaissance thinkers they admired Roman culture uh and also Plleonism. Uh you can see that many of the uh Christian thinkers they used to admire Aristotle uh during the middle ages and so on. But now they went to admire Plleonism and took some of the ideas of Plato.

[00:27:01]>> Uh and heric and neoplatonist thoughts were spread. Uh the the books of uh Hermes uh the the heretic books were translated to to Latin. They were in Greek before they were translated. And some Christian theologians they took Jewish cabala and tried to apply it to Christian theology. So what is called Christian cabala appear appeared during the renaissance. So this is some kind of mixture there and this is also a very important part of uh the mystic and esoteric tradition in the west. uh Jordano Bruno uh he was a monk actually and he was also astronomer h and he aided uh capernicus and his ideas of u helocentronism h but he was executed he was executed because of his indulgence in esoteric thoughts and magic. Yeah, >> but they when they speak about Bruno, they usually said that he was executed because of his like he was a scientific hero and so on.

[00:28:13]So they try to uh like always try to scenario that the church or the religion is always against science and so on. But Bruno, he was actually executed for his indulgence in like esoteric thought and uh magic and these kind of things.

[00:28:33]>> But it's interesting he he was known um he proposed the idea that stars were distant uh suns surrounded by their own planets or exoplanets and he raised the possibility that these planets might actually foster life of their own. So the idea that these are own solar systems or own systems that might had alien life and this is very advanced uh and and heretical idea for medieval Christians. Anyway, >> um another thing that happened during that was called the Rosian manifestos.

[00:29:04]They appear appeared in Germany uh during 1614.

[00:29:10]And this is ascribed to a person uh that also we come back to the the the Islamic tradition a person that's a legendary person that went to I think uh Cairo and Fez in in Morocco >> and he got yeah and he brought many of the Sufi ideas >> back and then spread them uh in this roian uh idea. You can see like I think that Newton was himself also crucial. So he was affected on these ideas. So um yeah so this is like the beginning when they started societies with uh rituals and initiations in uh in the beginning of the the 17th centuries. They said that these manifestos were forged and so on. But this is the beginning when they start these societies that they have these rituals uh and the rosecription uh movement they influenced uh freemasonry after that during the 18th century.

[00:30:16]Yeah. So this is during the renaissance or reformation and during the enlightenment the enlightenment is cherished as the age of reason and science but there's another there's another side of that you can see that many of the scholars and uh also thinkers during that period of time they were indulged in the occult and joined different secret societies. So you can see that uh many of the famous philosophers in u France they were freemasons and they were indulged in different uh like uh uh esoteric things and so on but at the same time they were very much against religion. So they were speaking in public about uh rationality and rational thinking and so on. But at the same time they joined these secret societies that had these different esoteric uh rituals. Yeah. And the first grand lodge of Freemasonry was established in London 1717. H even though Freemasonry is older than that but the Grand Lodge uh was established on that uh that year. Even though some say that this is just symbolic uh that specific year but sometime uh during that period of time uh Freemasonry was established in London it became very very popular quickly and it spread during the 18th century uh to to France and to Sweden and to to the USA to to America became USA after that we can see that the the founding fathers of uh America many of them were uh freemason reasons and also uh the Illuminati was established during that time. Uh this what is called the Bavarian Illuminati and Illuminati uh it started like 1776 by a person called Adam Vice helped. He himself was very he liked to study Jewish cabala and these kind of occult and esoteric things. uh but he said that his mission was to fight Christianity and to replace it with rational thinking and so on. So he had one side of like u speaking about making revolutions and like uh calling calling to revolutions against the kings and against the church and so on. But at the same time he had his own secret society with esoteric different esoteric teachings and uh uh things like that.

[00:32:54]And the the Bavarian Illuminati only continued for about 10 years or something like that. Many famous people in in Germany and other places joined this secret society.

[00:33:09]But then uh the leader of uh the state of Bavaria uh abolished the whole when he found out that they have this revolutionary ideas and so on, he abolished the whole movement and then vice had to flee to another state in in of the Germanic Germanic state states.

[00:33:30]But >> 1776 of course was is celebrated in the US as the official beginning of the United States, the declaration of independence. I was wondering if that's a coincidence is it that that's the same year.

[00:33:41]>> Yeah, it's quite interesting. And he started the movement on the first May also like first May as you know it's like it's a >> yeah but the Illuminati after that officially it it was finished but it became very very popular in uh popular culture.

[00:34:02]people are speaking about like different usually when they speak when people speak about conspiracy theories they speak about the Illuminati.

[00:34:09]>> Yeah. And the thing that is quite interesting is that most people they don't have an idea. They what Illuminati is. They're just using as a word like some people say the matrix today like yeah try use some kind of word for the uh I don't really know those who rule everything but Illuminati was really a secret society that was established 1776. And you can read scholar articles even Adam vice house books now has been translated some of them have been translated to to English they were written in in German uh but they have been translated now to English so you can see the kind of thoughts that he had and that was spread in these secret societies in uh in that time >> is the Illuminati the Illuminati exists today if it does exist is this in direct continuity with this place this group that was established in 1776 or is it a completely different >> Yeah. Yeah. they say that like he he uh he recruited people from different states from from Poland and even some people from Sweden and so on and then the organization was disabled in his state where he was from from Bavaria but the people that speak about Illuminati like in conspiracy circles and so on they say that the organization continued to to live on in different places. So some the attribute like the uh that he was involved in the revol French revolution and he was also involved in things that happened in the USA and so on but it's uh many of the things that have been mentioned is not really historical. So we don't have clear historical proof for the things that happened and they started to use the word Illuminati for all kinds of things that are just bad and evil. Yeah.

[00:35:55]>> I see.

[00:35:56]uh but but there are there were people that really like uh joined the movement.

[00:36:01]You have the the the famous uh uh the famous German author Gerta. He was a member of Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:36:12]>> idea because interesting he he wrote Dr. Foustus, you know, this idea of of this uh uh well, I won't go into that, but the the idea of of having a pack with the devil and giving you uh amazing powers is all very esoteric and kind of weird and that kind of >> Frankenstein the book Frankenstein like uh Adam Weiss was from the the citystat in in uh uh in Bavaria. So she mentions Mary she mentions that Frankenstein was made in Ingustat. So there is some kind of connection there too that they say that she kind of got some of the the thoughts from from the Illuminat I don't really know I haven't read too much but yeah >> uh yeah so this was what happened during the enlightenment and um like I said uh Freemasonry spread very much it spread to to Sweden uh you can see that the first kings uh in Sweden that became freemasons were in like 1750 or something like that and all of the kings in Sweden until this king that we have have all been freemasons.

[00:37:22]>> Why are the kings of Sweden Freemasons?

[00:37:24]I mean why would they become part of this movement of this order? What would be their incentive do you think?

[00:37:30]>> Uh it's it's very hard to to to know. Uh was one of the kings of Sweden like Freemasons they have different rights.

[00:37:37]So you have the Scottish right and you have the Swedish right. Swedish right spread in the Scandinavian countries, Sweden and in Norway and Denmark and Iceland.

[00:37:49]It's the same right and you have uh the York right, you have different rights and you have uh in France they have their own uh uh ways. So it can differ from place to place >> but >> uh the Swedish right was establish or something like that 730s maybe and then the one that uh the person that established the Swedish right was uh the king king Charles I13 of Sweden. So he was the king and he was the one that established the the whole uh uh the whole right that we have in Sweden until today and in Denmark and and Norway and so on. And he was very much into the esoteric and the occult and uh getting in contact with with spirits and so on.

[00:38:36]So he was very much indulged in these kind of things. And when I asked the the scholar Henrik Bogdan in one of my classes about the Swedish right, is it more esoteric or less esoteric than other writes? I say it's more esoteric.

[00:38:50]And there are no books that are public of of the Swedish Freemasonry. You have books of like the the Scottish right in America and so on that are public. You can can read them.

[00:39:02]You can buy them from from Amazon and so on. But there are no books that are public of Swedish Freemasonry. So it's very hard to know really what what they're up to, what they're doing and so on. And this is what he himself said and he's like one of the main scholars in the world is a professor is one of the main scholars in the world when it comes to studying western esotericism.

[00:39:21]>> But but this must be a cause of some considerable anxiety to those non- freemason people in Scandinavia who are aware of this secretive movement uh of the rich some rich and powerful people because you know what are they up to?

[00:39:35]You know the implication is there's conspiracies there's uh you know unaccountability uh there's agendas which are not made public and therefore not accountable to a wider political system. So this must cause anxiety surely politically and socially amongst other people.

[00:39:51]>> Yes. And I will come to that in later.

[00:39:53]This is like what I'm speaking about the two different sides of of the west. you have this this open the modern side of the west and democratic side and liberal side and the same people that are ruling in these secret societies that are very like they're not agitarian and not allow women to come in and so on but I will speak about that later I think it's a very very interesting thing when it comes to understanding the west uh you can't really understand the whole west if you don't understand western esotericism this >> so uh during In the 19th century, uh there was a movement called spiritualism that attracted millions of followers, especially in uh America and in Britain.

[00:40:37]It started with two uh sisters that heard some sounds in their house and they thought that they were communicating with the dead. So this was during uh after the during the period of time after the American civil war. many many people died uh during the war and they died of diseases and so on. So like almost all families in the states they had some relatives that have been dead.

[00:41:03]So now and people started to move in to to bigger cities and so on. So they lost many of them lost connections to churches and so on to the old churches and this was some kind of way to find a substitute of uh to continue with their spiritual uh life. H and one of the things the main things the spiritualists were were focused on was communicating with the dead. So they have spiritual mediums that was speaking to the dead and communicating with them and so on.

[00:41:35]got um yeah probably some kind of uh gin thing that they had connection to.

[00:41:41]>> Yeah. Yeah, but this was very very popular uh between 1840 to 1920 in USA and Britain >> and very popular in England as you say uh uh hugely popular uh in in Victorian England and it got a lot of criticism but uh it was very very popular uh remarkable not anymore it's almost does not disappeared I guess but it certainly doesn't have that kind of central cultural significance that it did uh in in a few centuries ago.

[00:42:10]Um and uh one of the movements that was uh like influenced of that was uh the theosophical society was established by Helena Blavatski in 1875 and one of the things that is interesting interesting with the theosophical society that Helena Blavatzki she said him herself that she traveled to Tibet and she traveled to India and she traveled to Egypt and so on and many of the the thoughts that she had And many of the things that she had in the theosophical society were taken from Buddhism and taken from Hinduism and taken from old Egyptian religion and so on. And the theosophical society itself was not that big but uh it had huge influence on the new age movement after that and other movements that are popular in in the west now. So you can see that in these uh uh new age movements and uh people that are indulged in these things they usually take some things from from Buddhism, some things from Hinduism and some things from Taoism and so on. So they they mix from different religious traditions and uh they take they call it like um you go to a buffer so you take what you want. So this is something that is it's very individualistic in this way that uh you should not have this organized religion that like the church is saying to you exactly what you should believe and so on. It's up to everyone to take what they want. So you can take some things take the tarot card so you take uh some astrology things and so on.

[00:43:48]So this is part of the whole new age movement and many of the things can be traced back to Helena Blavatzka the theosophical society.

[00:43:59]>> It's a very it's a a kind of spiritual practice which is very modern in the sense of it's very capitalistic. It's like having a supermarket of beliefs. So you choose whatever you you fancy and what what takes you what you like. Uh and it's very individualistic and capitalistic. They sell things to you capitalistic like you say. They try to like sell stones to you, sell talisman to you know you know whatever you feel like. It's very zeitgeist very western in that sense.

[00:44:28]>> Yeah. But it's very interesting to understand this to to understand like because it's uh you can see especially amongst women uh it's it's much more like spread out amongst women than it is amongst men. So you can see when I was studying uh atheism uh I saw like a YouTube channel that have been uh that collected all of the debates between Christians and atheists. So it was about 300 debates that I saw that was many years ago >> and all of the debates were between men.

[00:45:04]So men who are atheists and men who were Christians. M >> and then I wrote a an essay an article uh when I was studying about uh the new age movement university in Sweden and I had to read some of the materials that they have some of the journals that they have and newspapers and so on and the whole movement was for women. So they were speaking about okay how can you practice your spiritual life and how can you be happy with your husband. So it's not like with your wife was with your husband. H you can see that many of them that practice this are usually like like women. So you can see that uh men uh they they like are more attracted to to things like either like yeah atheism and so on and then you can see that women uh they're more attracted to to these things. M >> uh one thing that's interesting during the 19th century that many socialists and feminists they used Satan as a symbol. So they were praising uh shaitan actually uh and you can see that there's a book called uh marks and satan or satan or marks uh and the author he collected different poems by marks himself that he like wrote to shaitan and praised shaitan h and you can see the same thing with uh what is it Miklakuni um the anarchist leader u Booker in the Russian book the same thing with him he had this kind of praising shan and so on and even the social democratic party in Sweden they had their own newspaper called Lucifer and this is the social democratic party that been ruling Sweden for for like most of the 20th century They have >> so the social democratic party who's been ruling Sweden for the most of the 20th century uh had a paper that was named after Satan. That's what you just Okay.

[00:47:15]>> And they had the 10 ten commandments of shaitan. So it said like you should not have any god besides me the lightbringer. So yeah uh they had this tradition that was very spread out among socialists during the 19th century when they used shaitan as a rebel against authority against God king and so on >> and feminists was the same thing that they say they used the story of Adam and Eve that shan came to her and so on and that the church used to uh have this whole patriarchal structure and so on.

[00:47:53]But Chaitan was the one that tried to liberate women. Uh those days there's a Swedish scholar, it's called Parapel. He wrote a book, I think it's his PhD dissertation, uh about satanic feminism, uh satanic feminism, uh Satan, the devil as the liberator of women during the 19th century and so on. So there were many feminists during that period of time were influenced of Satanism or but they some of them they said that some scholars they have mentioned that not all of them were esoteric uh Satanists.

[00:48:31]So they were not all of them believing in Shan as a figure that they that they worshiped. They used him as a symbol uh usually. So but still these kind of esoteric thoughts were spread out even amongst the secular movements during the 19th century.

[00:48:50]>> Uh during the 20th century there's a very famous person called Alistister Crowley. Uh he was actually >> Yeah. Yeah. He was a Freemason and he Yeah. And he was also he started his own esoteric religion called thema and uh it was based on magic and and other esoteric esoteric and occult things and so on. And he was very influential. He was even mentioned I think by that he was one of the most influential uh English men uh ever. Uh so he's like on on the the list. I think even details they they put his picture on one of their albums. Uh >> oh yes. Yeah, they did. Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

[00:49:38]>> Yeah.

[00:49:40]>> Uh also the German Nazi party had occult roots. Uh and also you can see uh Hri Himler, he was himself very indulged in these things. He used to have different occult and esoteric meetings in a palace in Germany. and uh many of the things that that he was like he was the esser but at the same time he used to have all of these esoteric uh rituals and so on and many others also from the Nazi party. Uh yeah so there are some specific books about the occult roots of the Nazi party. You can see that many of the symbols that they use and many of the things that they have are all can all be traced back to different esoteric uh symbolism and so on.

[00:50:27]>> Uh after the second world war uh the counterculture movement spread uh during the 1960s and they were against the establishment and being against the establishment one part was being against uh religion. uh so uh they uh the new age movement became very popular amongst them uh during the 60s7s and so on. Uh so many esoteric beliefs were spread uh amongst these people. Then the the the word new age um became uh did not became so popular. you will not see today. Usually there are people that are indulged in these things that have these practices that they say that they are part of a new age movement today. But these things are really spread out. You can see them uh like on the internet. You can see them in like personal development books that they usually use these kind of uh ideas taken from from new age uh thought and so on.

[00:51:28]So they are very spread out but they don't usually use the word new age anymore.

[00:51:35]>> Even neopaganism was spread during the late 20th century uh all around Europe.

[00:51:40]You have in the UK the wikah and druid movement and you have in uh Eastern Europe like slavic neopaganism. We have in Sweden the old Norse religions some kind of neopaganism. And you can usually see that people that are uh on the far right uh they are usually again they are usually they have these kind of symbols from the neopagan or the the the old pagan religious in Scandinavia and so on.

[00:52:11]>> Uh and also satanic groups uh started they have the the church of Satan that started in the 70s and so on. They never gained much popularity but you can see uh a lot of reference to the devil and shan h in western culture.

[00:52:29]>> Yeah. In music.

[00:52:31]>> Yeah. Uh if you go in here, of course, Wikipedia is not the best place to to have a resource. If you go into Wikipedia and write devil in the arts and popular culture, you will see under all these things like music, classical music, popular music, film, television, film, television, animation, radio, literature, uh video games and so on.

[00:52:51]How many reference there are to the devil uh in music, in film and so on.

[00:52:56]It's not always that they they praise the devil. There are some examples of other but in music especially they have this thing that they saying that they have a deal with the devil that they sold the soul to the devil and so on and these are things that they uh they say during their they have these lyrics uh that are very satanic in in western culture. You can even see in many films too, many serious uh video games and all these things. They have these occult things that esoteric uh things that get into video games and to to music and to films and serieses and so on. This is very interesting and there there's a specific subject that they study called a culture uh where they study this culture phen phenomena in the west. It's interesting there even in the Muslim world there's a certain Muslim country I won't say where where a western singer went just a few weeks ago and the lyrics were were quite well known about bowing down to worship the goddess and uh and so on and this is explicitly kind of pagan um satanic kind of rhetoric going on there even even in a Muslim country so say which one but it's infiltrating uh through popular music now in in other parts of the world not just the west >> yeah you see like even like famous music videos that they have uh speaking about how they sold the soul to the devil and how the devil coming into the music videos and so on. So devil and esoteric thoughts are very spread out in in western culture today.

[00:54:30]Uh yeah uh this is another thing that I think is very interesting. Uh the esoteric tradition in Freemasonry. So the first gentleman uh there is called Albert Pike. He got a book called morals and dogma and he was the supreme commander of the Scottish right which is the biggest right in in USA uh for about 20 or 30 years or something like that. So he was like the main boss during the 19th century for freemasonry in the states uh 33 degree uh freemason and he wrote this book morals and dogma and this book is you can download it as a PDF and you can read it and it's full of esoteric and occult things and this is how he explained the different levels that they have the different degrees that they have in in Freemason syndrome.

[00:55:22]So if someone wants to get like an insight in how they understand their rituals, he can go back to the book morals of dogma. It's very hard to understand because usually esoteric literature if you don't if you're not you don't really understand the different uh uh the wordings that they're using or the thoughts that they have. It's quite hard to understand. But someone as Albert as Albert Pike had this uh huge influence amongst the Freemasons that he wrote this book with the esoteric thought. It can show it shows us that the esoteric tradition is widespread in uh amongst Freemasons especially the the Scottish right. The other person uh called Manley Hall uh he got a book called the secret teachings of all ages. He was very influential too amongst the uh Freemasons. Uh his books are very esoteric too and he even in one of the books that I read from him he mentioned that uh the religion of Freemasonry. So he he mentioned that it's an own religion uh and he got all these different uh he takes like uh teachings from different religions and especially he's talking about hermeticism and uh and neoplagionist thoughts and all these things from old Egypt time and he put them together in uh this book secret teaching all ages and other books that he wrote too. And uh the third person is uh King Charles I 13th of Sweden uh who established the Swedish or formed the Swedish right that we have in Sweden and Denmark and Norway and Iceland. And uh like I said when I spoke to to my teacher he said that his thoughts were even more esoteric than other rights that they have in in Freemasonry.

[00:57:20]So you have this esoteric tradition in Freemasonry. It's very hard to to know exactly what they believe in, exactly what they do, uh what their rituals consist of. But there are books that you can read and there are also academic research about them so you can understand more what they believe and what uh they do. And here is something that is very very interesting. you have this esoteric thoughts and I don't know uh it's so clear but uh see I can make it bigger here. Yeah. Uh yeah. So they have this initial right when you join the Freemasons and this is taken from themselves what they say. So they say that they have to obey without hesitation any order whatsoever it may be of Masonic superiors to assist a companion royal archmason when he is engaged in any difficulty and espouse is caused so far as to extricate him from the same whether he is right or wrong.

[00:58:25]And then they say they give this oath that if they would uh uh reveal any of the secrets that he would have his throat cut from ear to ear, his tongue torn out by the roots and his body burned in the rough sand of the sea at the lower water mark when the tide flows twice in the same 24 hours.

[00:58:50]>> A very exquisite thing, isn't it? I mean a re and you wonder, you know, if he's what the point of all that is. I think it's it's very theatrical, isn't it?

[00:58:59]It's kind of very I don't it's hard to take this seriously to be honest.

[00:59:04]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But but still uh you say these things and you say that you have to obey your Masonic superior and so on and to have his skull severed in two and divided to the north and the south and his bowel burned to ashes in the midst and scattered in the four winds and heavens and his skull broke and so on and they say these things. So this is what I want to come to. The this these are societies that they have esoteric thoughts and they give this uh bay like oath of allegiance to to the Masonic leaders and then at the same time you see okay who are famous free in the western world you see George Washington you see Benjamin Franklin D.

[00:59:48]Roosevelt, Andrew Jackson, Harry Truman, Mosart, Andrew Johnson, uh Mark Twain, Winston Churchill, Henry Ford, uh yeah, Gerald Ford and so on. So many American presidents, uh, famous people in culture, famous writers, uh, politicians uh, J. Edgar Hoover who actually like more or less controlled uh, American politicians uh, during, uh, much of the 20th century.

[01:00:18]>> Yeah.

[01:00:19]>> And they are in these societies and everything is so secret and esoteric and they swear these oaths and so on. So, I'm just I kind I kind of thinking if I may just comment on this the two names there that strike me. The Reverend Jesse Jackson, the famous civil rights leader um who's still with us I think and Henry Ford. Now Henry Ford of course was uh uh an open anti-semite. He he supported the Nazi party. Hitler awarded him some medals. He was a well-known national socialist sympathizer. So I'm just wondering in the hierarchy of the Freemasons um the relative uh because I perhaps their lives didn't quite overlap but it' been interesting if Jesse Jackson would have been high in the hierarchy in the Henry Ford and it had to have obeyed uh a black man you know a Nazi obeying a black man that would have been uh ironic to put it mildly but uh it's a very eclectic diverse bunch of people uh actually um Winston Churchill how extraordinary >> yeah but the thing is Like I I I think this is one of the main reasons why so many conspiracy theories are made among about the Freemasons and other secret societies and so on because people see okay there are many famous people here they indulging in rituals that are very shady esoteric and we don't know about them what they're doing what they're saying when they're joining one another and so on and at the same time they are uh yeah like I said that secretive and they give this oath to the leaders and so on. So if you would if you have an open democratic liberal society and at the same time you have these things going on it's very hard to kind of join these things together to to be honest.

[01:02:09]Uh >> I think is there only one person from that long list who's still alive today.

[01:02:13]Buzz Buzzwin the um the American um astronaut second on the moon. Buzz Uldren rather.

[01:02:21]>> No this is just some six million Freemasons in the world about >> I'm just wondering. No, I'm just saying I wonder what the those who are alive now who who are the famous free maidens in the western world who who still exist.

[01:02:34]>> Yeah, in Sweden we have the foreign minister, we have the speakman spokesman of of the parliament and so on. So we have many like famous highranked politicians in >> Oh, I see. I didn't know. Okay. Okay.

[01:02:48]>> Uh yeah. So this is quite interesting.

[01:02:51]Uh this is the the the fresco of the capital uh United States capital and this is what is called apotheiois of Washington.

[01:03:02]>> Yeah.

[01:03:02]>> You know what apotheiois?

[01:03:03]>> Yeah. Apotheiois means it means when someone is exalted into heaven and become divine. It's it's a word sometimes used to describe the Christian view of Jesus who became divine when he ascended into heaven.

[01:03:14]>> Yeah. And this is a part of the fresco of United States Capitol Hill. So this is like where the parliament is and so on. They have this fresco of him uh making some kind of apotheiois like he's becoming divine and so on. And this is also a part of their esoteric beliefs that they're becoming divine with their esoteric thoughts and so on. And it's quite interesting that they have these uh things uh in in in these pictures and these places.

[01:03:46]>> Yeah. Uh so uh this is what I think is very interesting how the west presents itself. It's it's modern, it's rational, it's materialistic, it's egalitarian, it's democratic and so on. This is like how they usually portray themselves. And how many Muslims also in other parts of the world they think about when they think about the west this is how they think about them.

[01:04:08]>> Yeah.

[01:04:09]>> But you can see at the same time the esoteric secret societies are based on tradition. So they they take this knowledge that is uh from tradition from from master to master and so on and it's uh take it from them and it's not based on rational thinking. It's very irrational to be honest to have these uh rituals that they uh go into to coffins and they go amongst the different skulls and they do this kind of uh things that they're not part of uh rational thinking and they have this occult elements in them too. They are hierarch hierarchical and excludes women too. So if you say that we have like genitarian it's like women and men they can have all the same rights at the same time you have these societies you have these organizations that have a lot of influence at the same time they exclude women so I I think this is also very interesting and they are editists and based on obedience so the lower one obeys the one who's over him and so on and so on to his masters and this is also like in a democratic society. It's it's very uh hard to see how you can join between these things at the same time.

[01:05:26]>> Indeed. Indeed. Absolutely.

[01:05:30]>> Uh yeah. Um so what I think is very important with these things is that uh some people they ignore the existence of these secret esoteric societies. So they they don't care about them or they even deny that they exist or like that. and other people they spread conspiracies and the pro problem with conspiracy theories is that they're usually not based on uh knowledge. So they might have like some sense of knowledge you have they have one two three and then they jump from there to 45. So there's like a big gap between the things that they have the knowledge that they have and what they are talking about. And usually we can see that people speak about esotericism, the occult and the secret societies and so on YouTube and um like in some popular books and so on.

[01:06:27]It's usually based on these conspiracies. It's not knowledge based and the study of terrorism has been ignored in the academia for a very long period of time too. So if you go back 30 40 years ago, you will not find academic books and research and articles about these organization.

[01:06:50]But today you have these academic books that go back to resources. They go back to uh firsthand sources and they go back to the books of these organizations and so on. And they and also the some of the books are available. So you can find them on the net and you can buy them on Amazon and so on. Uh maybe like 45 50 years ago, someone who was not in these organizations would not get his hand on these books. But today it's possible to to read the books and to to get more understanding of their thought and what they're all about and so on. So I think this is very important that we as Muslims or people uh human beings generally when you speak about anything even if it's people that you don't agree with you should speak with knowledge.

[01:07:39]You should not speak just about what you think it might be and so on. So you say something yeah if you say something okay they believe in this and this and that.

[01:07:48]Okay what's your evidence for that? What you base it on? Yo, they said in Albert Pike said in morals and dogma one 123, okay, now we have an evidence. But just saying things, ascribing things to people, it's not from uh Islamic manners. Uh even if it's people that you don't agree with. And it's the same thing with other religions where like Muslims can't speak about Christians and uh Jews and Hindus and so on without uh without knowledge uh without evidence what they say.

[01:08:20]>> Very important point I must say. Very good point.

[01:08:23]>> Yeah. So this is uh also one of the things that I I wanted to reach with with this presentation to the the importance that if you want to learn about these things, learn from real resources. Don't like look at Tik Tok videos about things or YouTube celebrities and so on. Try to really gain real knowledge or if you don't it's better to just leave it and don't speak about it.

[01:08:50]So yeah, these are some of the books that were written about the subject. Uh the the the first scholar uh in the west that was famous to to write books about the subject uh was uh a French scholar called Antony F. I don't know how to pronounce French names but yeah uh he wrote many books. uh he got a chair of uh studying uh esoteric thought in university of sborn and this is one of his books western esotericism a concise history and he got many other books too and there's another scholar called Walter Hanigraph he's from Holland Netherlands he got many books about the subject too one of them is a short book uh about 200 pages called western esotericism a guide for the perplexed Walter Hanraph and also Antony Feer and other scholars, they wrote a dictionary of gnosis and western esotericism. I think it's about 8 to 900 pages. It's a it's a big book that explains all of the words that they're using and vocabulary and so on because it can be very hard to to understand. So if someone would just order uh morals and dogma of Albert Pike and try to read it straight away, he would probably not understand so much.

[01:10:14]So this is a book that can help you to understand the kind of uh terminology that they're using in yeah in western esotericism.

[01:10:24]They also got a journal uh called Aras with peer-reviewed articles about western esotericism uh with many different scholars from different universities that write articles about that. And this is also a book called Handbook of Freemasonry uh by Hrik Bogdan who was a teacher that I studied with. Uh it's about six or 700 pages with different scholars who wrote a book about Freemasonry about Freemasonry in different countries.

[01:10:51]6 to 700 pages on Freemasonry. I mean, it just shows there's a massive subject and there's that much material to cover in a big volume like that.

[01:11:00]Extraordinary.

[01:11:02]>> So, yeah, this this is what I want I want to read. It's like if someone wants to speak about the subject, okay, learn uh learn what it's really all about.

[01:11:10]Don't just speak about these things.

[01:11:12]Don't just make uh a YouTube video so you can get a a lot of uh people looking at it and so on because these are serious >> of course this is theology and it's you giving a lecture in which case they must watch a YouTube video if if you're giving a lecture about it on YouTube.

[01:11:28]Yeah.

[01:11:30]>> Uh yeah so these are some of the books and there are many many books and articles about the subject and they can be downloaded some of the PDFs and you can buy them for Amazon and so on. So if someone wants to learn more, you can go back to these books and learn more about the subject.

[01:11:46]The last thing that I want to speak about before ending is the Islamic rulings on esotericism and cultism. Oh.

[01:11:55]Oh yeah. Uh so many of the things that they're uh doing uh like magic is uh the ruling in Islam is that it's kufur and shik because you can't make sar or sorcery without getting connected to uh to have contact with jin. So they're calling upon jin and they're usually making different kinds of kufur to get closer to them. so they can get uh the things that they want. So uh this is uh to to learn about even to learn about magic, how to do it, how to get in contact with the gin is a form of of kufur that the scholars have mentioned.

[01:12:40]So it's it's a very very serious thing.

[01:12:44]uh divination, kahana uh that you try to know uh the future uh by looking in u like a lamp or looking in different things or to go to uh some persons that they say that they know the future and so on. This is also a form of kufur. The prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam mentioned two different situations that if a person goes to a person that claims to know the future and he believes that he said then he made kufur. So he left the religion of Islam. If he believes that this specific person knows the future, he knows what will happen in the future.

[01:13:27]And if he just goes to him just to ask him and he does not really believe that he said the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam said that his prayer will not be accepted for 40 days.

[01:13:40]>> Wow. And this is very dangerous because you can see that some Muslims they are looking at these TV shows uh or that they are uh reading paper newspapers that have this kind of uh uh divination uh articles and so on and they believe in them or they do not believe in them they just read them for fun. Uh then this is very very serious in uh in Islam. M >> the same thing with astrology and this is very very popular and now divination they have these tarot cards and they have it comes in different ways and uh h it's spread out like in the Muslim world in in some ways and in the western world in other ways and so on but it also come back to people that claim that they know the future based on that they either that they're just lying or that they have contact with the gin in different ways.

[01:14:39]Same thing with astrology too. Uh if someone believes that uh the stars they can affect what will happen on earth by themselves. So if someone is born in the scorpion or something like that it this and this and this and that will happen to him and this is because of the stars themselves then this is a big form of kufur in Islam. And if the person think believes that uh Allah subhana wa ta'ala made this as a a reason that this will happen then this is a lesser form of kufur but it's still very very serious to to to believe in these things or read uh like astrological papers and so on because you can see like in many >> many newspapers in the west today especially like uh the the newspapers that try to sell as much as possible not really serious and so on they usually have this astrological articles and so on they're very very common in newspapers today in in the west >> also talisbans different tima that they have uh they're very common in in the Muslim world but usually in the the new age movement and so on they have these different talismans that they wear or that they have in their houses and so And the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam spoke about that too that that if someone wears a tam then this is a form of kufur. So this is also very very serious in Islam. Uh yeah. Uh spiritualism, getting in contact with the dead, asking them for help. Uh and usually the ones that they communicate with are usually some kind of gin or or like that. Uh this can also be uh a form of of of kufur uh or shik that they start to ask them for specific things that they make different rituals to them and so on. So they fall into to kufur or to shik or that they make dua to someone else than Allah subhana wa ta'ala. This can also be shik when it comes to joining these esoteric societies especially if someone knows what they're all about and they have these esoteric teachings that goes against Islam. This is something that scholars have been talking about too and they say that it's not allowed for a Muslim to do that uh in any ways. So for a Muslim to join these societies, secret societies and so on is not allowed. And usually uh when they get involved in these things, they will have to do something that is totally contrary to to to Islam. But at the same time you can see like there are some books that have been written about Freemasonry in the Islamic world and it was really really uh spread out in in the Islamic world. Uh especially when the French they came to Egypt one of the first things that they made when Napoleon and his generals many of the generals with Napoleon they were freemasons. So they established uh these uh uh lodges in in in in Egypt and uh some Muslims they joined these organizations in uh in lodges in in Egypt. So you can see that many of the kings in uh in Egypt during the 19th century in the beginning of the 20th century they they were freemasons. The same things with in Syria and Lebanon and Turkey and so on. Freemason was very widespread in these countries and the scholars have mentioned that joining these organizations is not allowed and it can also lead person to to do things that are totally contrary to Islam.

[01:18:44]>> Yeah. So this is some uh summary of this important subject. Uh it's a lot of things that you can speak about. I was just I was thinking a lot about what to bring up and not to bring up. So if I want to speak about everything, it will be too long. But this is kind of a summary about the subject. So you can get some uh yeah summarized version about it. If someone wants to read more than many books they can go back to.

[01:19:10]>> I think the one question I have really as I say complete novice to this really is you've spoken about the these esoteric societies like the Freemasons the Illuminati and so on is is the extent of their actual power and influence in practice in in our world but but because they are esoteric by definition you know we can't you know look at them they're secretive. So, but then you you've listed all these very powerful people who think it worth their while in their busy lives where it matters really what they bother to get involved in. Why would they bother getting involved in all in say the Freemasons if it was just a joke if it was you know just a a pantomime where people dressed up in funny clothes and did funny rituals with coffins and whatever like you said. So that suggests that there is a point to joining it. So that raises the question, well how efficacious is it? What is the purpose?

[01:20:03]Why do powerful people join these organizations particularly the Freemasons? Because that seems to be the one that gets mentioned here.

[01:20:10]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[01:20:12]And others.

[01:20:14]>> So what's your view on that? Are we dealing with a a a behind the scenes occult uh influence here that is parallel to it seems to be what you're saying runs parallel to the official uh you know constitution rules regulations processes of a democratic liberal polity are we dealing with a kind of a twin track reality here is that what you're suggesting >> yeah I think so in I think people are joining the organizations like they have six million uh six million members And they have many other organizations too.

[01:20:47]So Sweden which is a famous country for being this open liberal country is the country with most people per capita uh in secret societies and secret organizations >> and Freemasons is just one of them. So you have another organization called Oldfellow. So you have Templar Order.

[01:21:06]It's an it's an organization with the same name of Knights Templars and you have many other organizations too that are secretive and they are even bigger than the Freemasons. So this is just one of the examples that I mentioned. So we can see like Winston Churchill he was with the Freemasons and the old fellows at the same time and the old fellows in Sweden I think they have about 40,000 members and Freemasons I think they have 15,000s. So it's it's very it's very hard to understand exactly why people join. I think there are different reasons for that. Some people they join they say that they have some kind of spiritual journey or that they self-development and so on. This is something that you can gain from that. It might be these kind of reasons. Uh there might be other reasons too uh to get connections and uh with the business and the political life and workplaces and so on. Uh it was uh uh there have been like different um like the media have been really reading about writing about these subjects in in the UK uh and in Sweden about uh like how the uh many police officers and uh judges and uh uh like lawyers and so on have been premason was like just a couple of months ago in Sweden that they mentioned that like in some cases says I think it was like the judge and the attorney and the and the lawyer and all of them at the same time they're all freemasons. So this became they becomes Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes >> Christians are compromising the integrity of the legal process if behind the scenes people are all on the in the same organization that's not disclosed and what's really going on there people are this is suspicious isn't it? I mean the question I got for you I mean who is is there a worldwide head of say the Freemasons? Is there a Mr. Freemason that has a name and an address.

[01:23:01]>> Officially not. Officially not because they have different rights. So you have the Swedish right and they have the the master mason and the Swedish right. And then you have the the Scottish right uh and you have the York right and you have different rights. So you have in the UK they have I think it's uh it's from the royal family. I don't know exactly who is. It's been >> Yeah. It's been the master me for about 50 years.

[01:23:25]>> Is it the Duke of Kent? I think is >> Juke of Kent. Yes.

[01:23:29]>> So he's so okay there are leaders but they're regional leaders rather than a single global leaders >> because there is not one Freemason Freemasonry so different Freemasons but what I understood is that they have contact between one another but they are not just one. Yeah. So they're kind of reling.

[01:23:49]>> Yeah. But I I can say that I'm like an I have some knowledge. I'm reading a lot about it. But it's like you you saw like the the books there are a lot of literature and articles and so on about the subject. So it's much more that you can learn about the subject and so on.

[01:24:06]Like I said there are other societies too, other esoteric groups too. So it's a it's a very interesting subject and I think that uh more people especially if they're in involved in Da and so on should have some knowledge about this because this is a way of understanding uh the western society today because it's a big part of it.

[01:24:26]>> Yeah. there's the the the outward pres presenting of the west uh image it wants to project as you say of liberal rational open and and but on the other hand behind the scenes there are these uh uh apparently you know very well uh attended organizations esoteric uh hidden with agendas who knows what they they're up to so this is quite quite disturbing of course um and of course from a Muslim point of view as well these aren't just human organizations they may well be in contact with a cult powers uh with Jyn and and Shayan maybe I don't know um so they present you know there could be unseen influences they bring to bear through these individuals through these organizations to on the societies around us so there's that kind of spiritual dimension uh the unseen which is very real obviously the Quran talks about it very very extensively this is very real and so I think I think it's very what you've done here today thank you for it is very solitary very helpful in just to giving us a more complete picture of another side of the west uh what's actually going on and so we should be less um perhaps naive about the occult powers that may be at work uh within our societies and shayan himself the Quran says is an avowed enemy of mankind so one can assume that he is at work in you know in in a hidden way perhaps in our societies particularly in the west >> yeah like you say like we talked about like in the music industry like the things that are really influencing people at a day-to-day level that they have all these satanic and occult uh things. Um it's quite scary to to to be honest like they're really like people that might not be so like interested in reading in like philosoph philosophical books and religious books and so on.

[01:26:22]they can get affected in other ways of these occult and satanic elements through films, through music, through video games and so on. So this is something that is really real in our culture today and people are affected of it. So yeah, I think it's something that we should study more and to get more knowledge about. Yeah, another eminent scholar, Islamician scholar, Shake Hamza Yusf from Zetuna College of course has written a lot about this and there's some interesting YouTube videos uh and of lectures, talks that he's given which discuss all of this in great detail and he talks about uh very influential 20th century figures who are behind very important discoveries uh you know rocket science and so on who were avowed Satanists. Uh this is not us calling them that. That's what they called themselves. And it really is quite shocking when you realize some of these uh people were were Satanists and so Hamza Ysef has done a lot of work educating Muslims I think on this as well.

[01:27:23]Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you uh very much uh Dr. Abdul as always fantastic uh to see you and uh I hope this uh your presentation will help many people to as you say do da more effectively more knowledgeably to understand what's really going on in the west and also to check themselves to make sure they don't get influenced by these uh you know occult influences. So thank you very much indeed.

[01:27:48]deck here.