BOMA LA CHAKWERA LINANAMIZA A MALAWI KU MALIRO A KASAMBARA ~ZA KUCHIKANGAWA

[00:00:00]which as contribution by government was that he had chartered the flight.

[00:00:07]Which to us came as a shock. We said, "No, this is these are contributions. Well, how how does government says no I've contributed by uh chartering the flight for the family?"

[00:00:19]>> Malawi today.

[00:01:29]Tita.

[00:01:32]>> Regarding his death, first of all, I think it is important to understand that the late Love Kasambara hailed from Katabe but was based in Blantyre.

[00:01:44]And he died in Lilongwe.

[00:01:46]I think those facts are indisputable indisputable.

[00:01:50]We and I'm sure I've all known we all know that to be the to be the correct facts.

[00:01:55]So, following his death, his remains were taken to Goodwill Mortuary for purposes of conducting an autopsy.

[00:02:02]The family subsequently decided that after the prayers at the mortuary, the remains would be transported by road to Blantyre to allow family members, friends, and colleagues based there in Blantyre to pay their last respects before proceeding to Nkhata Bay for burial.

[00:02:21]Accordingly, all the transportation arrangements at that stage were intended to be undertaken by road.

[00:02:30]Discussions regarding the chartering of the aircraft A large number of people gathered at Goodwill Mortuary to pay their last respects to the deceased. And this is in Lilongwe. Goodwill The Goodwill Mortuary we're talking about here is the one in Lilongwe.

[00:02:47]After the family announced the funeral program, several of the deceased's friends who were present informally discussed the fact that traveling by road from Lilongwe to Blantyre and thereafter from Blantyre to Nkhata Bay would impose considerable physical as well as emotional strain upon the bereaved family.

[00:03:07]So, it was during these informal discussions that the idea of chartering an aircraft from the Malawi Defense Force, which I should say Malawi Defense Force and/or Malawi Air Force. I'm told they're different, but maybe we should talk of the Malawi Air Force in this regard.

[00:03:27]Uh was proposed.

[00:03:29]And I was tasked by the group to coordinate this arrangement.

[00:03:37]Among those present at the mortuary was Professor Brigadier General Dan Kuwali, who just like the late Lovemore Mkhumbwa is also a lawyer by profession and was also a friend to the deceased.

[00:03:53]And let me just add he was also he also comes from Katabe where Love Kasambara came from.

[00:04:01]He was therefore there at the mortuary in his capacity as a friend and as a fellow mourner at that material time.

[00:04:09]And given his military background and experience I did approach him and requested him to ascertain whether a military aircraft could be made available for charter to transport the remains of the late Love Kasambara SC.

[00:04:28]Professor Kuwali made several telephone calls and subsequently informed me that an aircraft was available.

[00:04:37]I then relayed this information to the group of friends who were there and they welcomed the proposal.

[00:04:44]The information was also communicated to the family through Mr. Charles Kasambara who is a brother to the deceased and was also grateful for this gesture from friends of Love Kasambara.

[00:04:57]Quotation from the Malawi Air Force.

[00:05:00]So shortly after Professor Brigadier General Dan Kuwali sent me via WhatsApp a quotation issued by the Malawi Air Force for the charter of DO 228 aircraft ambulance.

[00:05:16]And this was for the route Zomba Blantyre Zuzu Zomba.

[00:05:25]The quotation is dated 8th June 2024 and was issued as I said on Malawi Air Force letterhead and was signed on behalf by Brigadier General Kandula.

[00:05:39]The total cost for the quotation for the charter was 9 million 582 751 kwacha.

[00:05:49]Mhm. I have attached the copy of this quotation to the report which I have circulated.

[00:05:56]And after receiving this quotation, I also shared it with the group.

[00:06:00]In fact, I should mention also at that point in time I think formed a WhatsApp group friends of Ralph Kasambara and I that group that was I was checking on my phone yesterday after after getting the the summons I noticed it's still there.

[00:06:14]So all these documents all this information was being shared on that WhatsApp group of friends of Ralph Kasambara.

[00:06:23]Contributions towards the cost of the the flight.

[00:06:28]Following the decision to proceed with the charter, members of the group commenced making financial contributions towards the cost of the aircraft.

[00:06:39]The contributions were being channeled through Professor Brigadier General Danny Quali.

[00:06:44]That was being copied in that communication relating to the contributions.

[00:06:50]And as I said, I do have a record of these contributions on my WhatsApp.

[00:06:56]Also contributions were being were being channeled to myself to my bank account.

[00:07:00]I also do have a record of the contributions which were channeled to my bank account.

[00:07:09]In addition, an accommodation quotation was also received from Sunbird Mzuzu Hotel in respect of accommodation of the Malawi Defense Force pilots in the sum of 165,000 kwacha.

[00:07:23]This amount was also paid by one of the friends on the group.

[00:07:30]I don't think it will be necessary to mention the names, but I do have the names. I know each and every individual who made a contribution.

[00:07:37]That you can be rest assured that we have we have that list of the contributions.

[00:07:42]I think I've also shared it to report the info in the invoice that we received from Zozu Hotel as well as a proof of payment from a national bank account of one of the members showing that it was actually paying for that accommodation at Mzuzu Hotel.

[00:07:55]That that that invoice from Zozu Hotel will show that it's being addressed to Professor Dan Kuwali.

[00:08:02]But it also expressly states that it's on behalf of the Kasambara family.

[00:08:07]I think that's just to connect that it was for purposes of what the group had been formed for.

[00:08:15]Route of the chartered flight.

[00:08:19]As reflected in the quotation issued by the Malawi Air Force, the agreed route for the chartered flight was Zomba Blantyre Mzuzu Zomba.

[00:08:33]The understanding among the group was that after the burial ceremony the aircraft would return certain family members to Blantyre before proceeding to its base in Zomba cuz the flight the flight started from Zomba to pick up the remains in Blantyre, then to Mzuzu. So, we thought that would be again the way back to to its base.

[00:08:59]Importantly, there was no planned stopover in Lilongwe under the charter arrangement made by the group of friends.

[00:09:11]Regarding my nature of involvement and I'm saying for the avoidance of doubt my role in the entire process was limited to coordinating communication among the friends of the late love Kasambara and facilitating the mobilization of financial contributions towards the cost of the charter.

[00:09:33]I had no authority to requisition deploy or authorize the use of the military aircraft, equally had no direct dealings with officers of the Malawi Air Force regarding the operational aspects of the flight, the assignment of the crew, the flight plan, or any subsequent movements of the aircraft.

[00:10:01]All communications relating to the availability of the aircraft and the quotation to charter were conveyed to me through Professor Brigadier General Dan Kwali, who had been approached by the group through me because of his military come legal background and his ability to to ascertain whether such an arrangement could be made.

[00:10:22]And finally, my understanding throughout was that the arrangement was a private charter intended solely to assist the bereaved family of the late Lovemore Mzuzu SC.

[00:10:36]I was not involved in any way in decisions relating to the aircraft beyond the route for which the charter had been arranged and paid for.

[00:10:48]Thank you very much for your attention.

[00:10:54]>> Thank you very much, uh counsel, for your submission, which makes life easier for us. It's It's uh it's written and we have the records here.

[00:11:08]And you have also >> [clears throat and cough] >> taken an oath to what you have presented.

[00:11:14]Our members may want to seek further clarification or ask any questions pertaining to your role because we prior to you your coming, we had uh uh the brother Charles Kasambara in here, who also gave an account of uh how events unfolded.

[00:11:34]And your name was also mentioned in there that you played a part.

[00:11:37]So, members may want to verify certain facts from what we heard and from what you have explained.

[00:11:41]May I open the floor to members. So, for the sake of uh logical sequence, I'll start from here one by one limiting members to two, maximum three questions until the very end.

[00:11:53]Uh Zomba Tonbe.

[00:11:55]>> Thank you so much, chair.

[00:11:57]Um uh thank you so much, counsel.

[00:12:01]Uh everyone asked the question about the receipt. Uh during your presentation, you presented evidence on the seat, but missing is a receipt covering your payment uh for the actual charter.

[00:12:16]Um I'm aware it was mentioned that uh the pay a payment of 6 million was done.

[00:12:21]So, uh we just wanted to know uh was it an MDF receipt? I mean, did you get a receipt for the same? And the what are the major details like? Was it an MDF receipt or in whose name was it? So, we can link with other ones.

[00:12:37]Thank you.

[00:12:40]And possibly how much uh if you may confirm the 6 million figure.

[00:12:44]Thank you, chair.

[00:12:47]>> Savuyani.

[00:12:49]>> Uh thank you very much, chair. And thank you very much um your our counsel.

[00:12:55]I just wanted you to confirm if apart from the figures that have been put there, were there any other arrangement possibly from the government to come in to assist knowing that the deceased uh was um a former cabinet member and that there's going to be a state funeral in the end.

[00:13:20]So, I just wanted you to confirm to this committee if government at any time came in to assist in any way or got involved with the arrangements apart from what you had submitted in in terms of the charter. Thank you.

[00:13:44]>> Chair, would you like to invite?

[00:13:47]>> Thank you so much, Chair, for allowing the people of Kyojo's wife to ask a question to Councillor Aboneka.

[00:13:56]Good evening, Councillor.

[00:13:58]>> Good evening.

[00:13:59]>> I understand you uh according to your explanation, I understand you are the one who did all the bookings.

[00:14:07]Uh of course, uh you said you had a support team. Uh thank you so much. Referring to what I have uh one question.

[00:14:18]I would like to know from you if there was some technical issues the time you were booking unusual occurrences or operational concerns observed before or during the flight. Thank you.

[00:14:37]>> Uh last question so he can respond.

[00:14:40]Um then we proceed to the next round. Is that a center?

[00:14:44]>> Uh thank you so much, uh Chair, and good evening uh Councillor.

[00:14:52]Uh It's a less experience because in other world, you are the one posing questions, but this evening um we are privileged to be the one asking questions and then you'll be responding.

[00:15:06]Uh as the Chair had said, uh we had the before you we had the uh elder brother of late Kasambala, Mr. Charles Kasambala. I hope you know him.

[00:15:16]Uh he had made some some some some statements uh which I had personally asked and he referred your name to it. So, I wanted you to confirm.

[00:15:27]In his statement, he had said when you had made the arrangements to book this flight, you were told that the the airport in Mzuzu, the lights were faded kind of. So, they needed to finish the mass service in Blantyre in time so that they arrive in Mzuzu in good time because of the lights issues at Mzuzu Airport.

[00:15:54]And also, upon the procuring the service of this of this plane, you were given a number of nine people to be in that plane.

[00:16:07]And they very lastly, he had said there was a communication that the Vice President will use the same plane the next day to and from Mzuzu.

[00:16:28]And the this three statements, according to him, you are the communication point between family and the and the friends of Kasambara. We want you to confirm that statement. And very lastly, I was looking at the just as a mental to what is Zomba told me and asked, I was looking at your quotation.

[00:16:48]It's Aviation fuel 5.something million payable to Puma Energy. It's There's a breakdown on operational costs payable to Malawi Air Force Headquarters.

[00:17:07]Allowances payable to Staff Sergeant Major Masamba.

[00:17:11]Sundries payable to Chipiku Plus. Grand total of million thereabouts.

[00:17:18]So, maybe while while you were responding to Zomba to a question, uh uh were you paying directly to these service providers or did you just pay a lump sum amount to to MDF and they issued the receipt to you? Or were you paying to these cuz these are on your on your on your invoice, as I mentioned.

[00:17:39]>> As I said, you may set you may take those set of questions, probably about seven or if not eight of them of them.

[00:17:46]Thank you.

[00:17:51]>> Okay, thank you. Uh I think I'll go like backwards. I'll start with the last question.

[00:17:56]On the How were the amounts on the quotation being paid?

[00:18:06]So, as I said, the these amounts were the 9.5 is is is is the friends who decided we we we can manage amongst ourselves to to raise that much.

[00:18:18]Okay, and people started raising that money right at the mortuary.

[00:18:23]And we I have information, I think one member paid 3 million.

[00:18:28]Another member paid 2 million. So, we already had 5 million from two people at at at the mortuary.

[00:18:33]And the I then got a text from uh Brigadier General to say, "We have received 3 million and 5 million towards and he mentioned the names towards the the charter.

[00:18:48]Uh there there will there will be a balance, okay, which which has to be paid. I hope you'll communicate to the to the family members."

[00:18:56]So, that actually gave us the comfort that I already I if you can see from the quote, the 5 million that's for fuel only. So, at least we'd paid for the fuel and the the arrangement was that they could start off. I think that was the mercy operational cost and all that.

[00:19:08]And the arrangement was that if we we'll pay the balance, I think, before they they get back to Zomba cuz we are sure that we will receive that money within that funeral funeral period.

[00:19:21]Uh and they taking account that this was a I think it was also there was also some trust high level of trust involved.

[00:19:30]We are in a in a in a situation where we we didn't really want to rush asking for receipts. We wanted a service.

[00:19:37]And we're dealing with people whom the director of what is a royal is a senior to us and we we is a man of high caliber. We we couldn't doubt that the man was going for his intended purpose and we couldn't doubt that we're going to get a receipt because in fact yeah we too had to account to our members.

[00:19:54]So the man was given and indeed the the arrangement for the flights were being made. But as as as you can see it wasn't the the whole amount.

[00:20:06]The arrangement that we'll pay the I think it was the balance of 4 million plus after the trip is finalized.

[00:20:12]And maybe now I'll I'll I'll go to ask another question which came up.

[00:20:20]So when we are when we were at the funeral in Katabe uh Honorable Halem Kandawire uh spoke on behalf of government.

[00:20:36]And one of the things which he said and this is on record I think it it was live on Zodiak TV if you can get a record.

[00:20:41]One of the things he said as contribution by government was that it had chartered the flight.

[00:20:49]Which to us came as a shock cuz no this is is these are contributions? Well, how how does government says no I've contributed by uh chartering the flight for the family.

[00:21:01]So we had to decide as a group what do we do and I think the decision we made is that we then will not pay the balance and we haven't paid paid the balance up to now.

[00:21:08]Because government told us that it chartered the flight.

[00:21:13]But we made a payment well they also chartered but those are the facts which we have.

[00:21:16]So, maybe that should also ascertain goes another question uh I think along those lines about the the balance and the how was the money the money paid.

[00:21:32]Confirmation on whether I knew that the VP would be on the plane then on on this plane the next day and the flight back.

[00:21:46]No.

[00:21:49]No. No. I was not aware of this arrangement that the VP would be on this plane the following day.

[00:21:56]News that the VP is coming to attend the funeral came to us around to 8:00.

[00:22:04]That's on 9th.

[00:22:07]The same day that the flight arrived in Mzuzu around to 8:00.

[00:22:10]That's when on our group we got the news and I think it was Rusungu Gondwe was was there as well. So, he had received a message from the DC for Katabi that we have we have we have heard that the vice president is coming and as government we must be there to to welcome him.

[00:22:27]So, that's when we also got to know that oh so uh the vice president is coming it wasn't that. If I may not have confirmed I may I may I may have confirmed after got that fact from the group that the DC is asking about the protocols and the and all that.

[00:22:44]That there were nine people who were supposed to be flown. Yes, that is correct.

[00:22:49]Uh the manifest that they said I'm going to use they used the manifest showed nine people plus casket.

[00:22:56]That's that's the total of number of people who were on on that flight.

[00:23:06]Confirm that there were no lights at the airport or there were there was a problem with the lights at the Mzuzu Airport.

[00:23:13]Yes, that is true.

[00:23:15]Because I was there. I had driven, I didn't go to Blantyre, so I had driven as advanced party to Mzuzu and it will come the remains as they arrive.

[00:23:23]We were at the airport from around three because that's the time we were expecting the the the flight from Blantyre to arrive.

[00:23:31]It only arrived I think when dark was starting, should have been around sixish.

[00:23:35]And yes, there was there was a problem of lights at the airport.

[00:23:38]In fact in fact in fact, as I'm saying, it the the time we were expecting them to arrive took longer than expected.

[00:23:49]And we also started wondering, why are they delaying? And then we were told, well, they need to go through Likuni and come okay, this side into Mzuzu because of the the the the status of the the Mzuzu Airport.

[00:24:07]Technical issues about the booking or the operational requirements of the plane, I think it's the same which I've said.

[00:24:14]We just wondered, why would the plane delay, okay, arriving from Blantyre? We were told it has started off from Blantyre okay, by the airport staff.

[00:24:23]And they said it would be Mzuzu. I don't know what period it was, but it really took more than what was and we started getting worried to say, what is happening?

[00:24:30]We were not in the plane, we really don't know what happened for them to take that long to arrive in in Mzuzu.

[00:24:43]I was also asked to confirm if there was any arrangement from government to assist. I think that's the one which I've mentioned. The only I don't know of any arrangement apart from what was said that well, government has chartered the the flight. So, maybe we we both contributed to to the chartering of the flight.

[00:25:04]About the receipts covering the payment, I think I also answered that I think with the other the other questions. And I think those are the questions which I took down, chair.

[00:25:13]>> Okay. I think you have addressed all the questions that were made. Do you have another round of questions?

[00:25:18]Uh Katavi North, Mwanza Central in that order, Plant Malamba all the way to Iringa and then Kasungu and we wind up here with Songwe.

[00:25:32]>> Thank you, chair, for giving uh the people of Katavi North question to ask, counsel.

[00:25:41]Uh counsel, you said on you only you uh presentation that the original plan for the uh transportation of late Kasambara was using by road.

[00:25:56]And then what changes the plan from the original?

[00:26:02]Is it a committee or the family member?

[00:26:07]Secondly, uh I'm glad to know all I'm glad that you have told the committee that he you were there at the airport by the time he was waiting for the remain of late Kasambara.

[00:26:23]Would you tell us what the condition or what the condition were that uh there at a particular time when he was waiting for the late uh Kasambara remain. Thank you.

[00:26:38]>> Mwanza Central.

[00:26:39]>> Uh thank you very much. Uh good evening, counsel.

[00:26:43]Um >> [clears throat] >> in your in your report you have uh indicated that the contributed uh uh um um funds for accommodation of crew at Sunbird um Mzuzu.

[00:27:06]Um I just want you to confirm if indeed that money was paid to Sunbird Mzuzu.

[00:27:14]Number one.

[00:27:15]Um Two.

[00:27:19]If it was paid did your group probably receive a credit note that maybe uh service was not rendered to the crew?

[00:27:36]Then the last one, Counsel I want to find out from you um you have indicated that you only knew about the late Vice President's presence or attendance um at past 8:00.

[00:28:00]I assume that time you were already uh at Katabi.

[00:28:06]Was there any change of program that you noticed?

[00:28:12]Because the initial program apparently from the information that we got from um Mr. Chawez Kasambara is that the program was drawn on the 9th in Blantyre.

[00:28:27]That uh program in Mzuzu will start at 10:00 a.m.

[00:28:32]And when you got the news that the late Vice President was attending the funeral did you see any uh change of program or the program remained as it was? Thank you very much.

[00:28:50]>> Plant there.

[00:28:52]Labada.

[00:28:53]>> Thank you very much, chair.

[00:28:55]I would like to inquire into the capacity in which Professor Brigadier General Dan Kuwali was acting at that particular time.

[00:29:05]Was he employed by the MTF or MAF?

[00:29:12]Number two, I would like to find out from uh the presentation, page number two, uh autopsy has been mentioned.

[00:29:22]I would like to find out from the counsel if the autopsy was actually carried out and you you got the report.

[00:29:30]Number three, I would like to find out if the committee on that particular day had followed the a particular provision of standard practice for the procurement of the military aircraft or uh Professor Brigadier General Dan Kuwali had advised the committee that they would have to go through official channels for the procurement. Thank you.

[00:29:58]>> Next. Uh >> Uh thank you very much, chair, uh for giving the people of Do Agasan Gati the opportunity to ask counsel here a few questions. Uh but before I I I ask my questions, I would like to declare that um I know counsel Wapona Makida as a professional colleague.

[00:30:17]Um I have a few questions, counselor.

[00:30:22]Um my understanding >> Counsel, this is not payback time.

[00:30:26]Put questions.

[00:30:27]>> No, >> [laughter] >> not at all.

[00:30:30]Um my understanding from your explanation is that um you did not have time to draw up a charter party, the agreement between um the family and the Malawi Defense Force.

[00:30:46]I would like you to confirm about the the period of the charter.

[00:30:53]Was it for a day or two days or three days?

[00:30:58]And the the other question is that um when when the plane was being temporarily withdrawn from the charter arrangement to to fly the vice president were you communicated and what was the reaction of the friends of Kasambara who had arranged the charter?

[00:31:23]Thank you very much.

[00:31:27]>> Last one.

[00:31:29]>> Thank you share.

[00:31:30]Last question indeed from Kasungu North council.

[00:31:36]I have heard that the government announced that they have assisted the family by chartering a plane.

[00:31:44]That means the government paid for that.

[00:31:47]And you already paid the deposit of 6 million. Why didn't you just get back that money back and give to the family as condolences? Thank you.

[00:32:02]>> Zomba City South which will be the last one.

[00:32:07]>> [clears throat] >> Thank you so much here and good evening council.

[00:32:13]Um My name is two questions council through the chair.

[00:32:19]Just confirm to this group that um you participated in the drawing of the funeral program on the 9th.

[00:32:33]And if so Uh, this question has been asked already, but I just want a confirmation.

[00:32:40]If you participated at that point, we presume that it was not yet known that this would be a state funeral.

[00:32:49]Um, so you might want to confirm that.

[00:32:53]Second chair, counsel, please, uh, advise the, uh, this committee what time exactly the funeral ceremony started uh, in Katabi since you were present. Finally, you did talk about the manifest, the number of passengers on the plane.

[00:33:11]You said nine passengers.

[00:33:14]Um, I would like also to confirm that because in the commission of inquiry report, on page 17, the manifest says nine passengers, three crew members, and one silent soul.

[00:33:27]So, I'd like to confirm that indeed there were nine passengers, not total number of people in the plane, but nine passengers, three crew, and one silent soul, as I mentioned.

[00:33:39]Counsel, you may take these questions.

[00:33:51]It's It's It's probably It's probably the family which communicated perhaps to MDF or to Professor Dan Kwalie about the actual number of people.

[00:34:04]But Dan Kwalie came to me to, in fact, to to tell to just tell me that, "Okay, we've received a manifest of nine people plus casket." That was the language. How we interpret that, whether the nine includes the crew, I'm not I'm not sure whether the nine were just the family members. I'm not very sure, but at least from my side, the record which I have is that they received the manifest of nine people plus the the casket.

[00:34:31]Uh, regarding what time did the funeral start?

[00:34:37]If if if if if I go by the the the the WhatsApp chat group which we had, around around 11:43 a.m.

[00:34:48]There was a message sent by one of the members that the ceremony is starting, but the VP is not yet here.

[00:34:55]So, I can say the ceremony started at 11:40 around 11:43 because I have a text of someone saying, "The ceremony has started, but the vice president is not here."

[00:35:05]Yeah.

[00:35:11]If I was if I had participated in the drawing up of the the program, I was aware of the program being drawn up, and actually our group was organizing the drawing up of the program in consultation with the family.

[00:35:26]So, as I I think I I just before we got communication that the vice president was attending, the program had not yet been finally drawn up. I shall we still pushing each other cuz that was around 7:00 in the evening.

[00:35:43]We are still pushing each other.

[00:35:45]And I think there was a delay because I think on the list of who's going to speak, who's going to lay the wreaths was not yet given to us by the family.

[00:35:51]So, the responsibility was to for us to draw up that full program, but we didn't have the full information from the family as late as 7:00 p.m.

[00:36:00]But after 7:00 p.m. after we got to know about the vice president coming, then I think an hour later, if I again go by our chat up messages, the program was drawn up.

[00:36:10]And it included the vice president speaking at the funeral.

[00:36:14]I do have that program. I I could share maybe to uh, honorable Gasper Tiger and he can share with the group. You can see I think we are supposed to have breakfast at 8:00 and all that. We are supposed to leave after mass to go to the graveyard.

[00:36:29]around It should be quarter to one or somewhere there.

[00:36:33]If I'm not mistaken, so it has got all the timelines and I think it ends there.

[00:36:36]About what happens at the graveyard, I think that one is not timed. It is just left to open-ended. But yes, the program is there. It was drawn up and they Uh as I think it was Lusungu Gondwe in particular who was tasked to liaise with the family to draw up and he's the one who sent it to the group that here's the program, the final program.

[00:37:05]As why we did not pay back the money to the contributors after government said it had chartered what it It never occurred to us. I think we all just moved on with life after that.

[00:37:15]Nobody really wanted to come back and start raising queries, give us back our money.

[00:37:20]Maybe they would have They would have all said, "No, give us back our balance."

[00:37:23]So, because we still We are still contracted to them for The The minister may have just been speaking that at the funeral. People say a lot of things at the funeral even when they don't or they don't have instructions to say some of those things. But we left it like that. Nobody really wanted to get back and start querying each other.

[00:37:40]Where is the money or what happened? At least we were We got the service that we wanted.

[00:37:45]Although not completely.

[00:37:51]Whether we were informed about the withdrawal of the plane to cater for the vice president, personally I was not aware. I was not even aware that the vice president was going to come by the same plane that was in Mzuzu.

[00:38:05]Uh That was not part of our arrangement. I think it must have been government arrangement to do that. We never We didn't know that As I'm saying, we didn't know that it was going to be the same plane to pick the president uh to Mzuzu and and back.

[00:38:20]Yeah.

[00:38:27]>> Uh on the on the charter party and the period when we were supposed to access the plane all all we are sure of was that uh the plane would fly back the family members after the burial.

[00:38:45]Yes, that's that's that's that was our agreement. Yeah, that it would at least it would not leave Mzuzu until after the burial ceremony is done and some of the members may not be all, but at least it will fly back with some of the members of the family to to Blantyre.

[00:39:07]Was there an autopsy carried out? Yes, there was an autopsy carried out.

[00:39:11]The results were made, but not to the public, neither to me. I don't know what were the results of the autopsy.

[00:39:20]They were shared to the family.

[00:39:22]Yeah.

[00:39:26]In what capacity was he Professor Dan Kuwali acting and whether what followed the procurement procedures?

[00:39:33]He was I'll put it he was acting as a friend.

[00:39:37]We were at a funeral and sometimes everybody wants to be seen to be helping.

[00:39:42]And we it's us who reached out to him because he came there to mourn for late Kasambara, but knowing that he is in the MDF and he's a lawyer and it was easy to approach him. And we're not approaching him to cut any corners, no. We were approaching him to help us to get to the right people. And he took it upon himself to get to the right people. He sourced the quotation for us.

[00:40:03]You will see the quotation which I've shared. It's not something signed by him, it's signed by another person and he only forwarded it to us to say, "Okay, your request I forwarded it to the right people and they have sent us the quotation. Here is your quotation." So, he only came in to to And I think he did a good job for us. We wouldn't If it were not for him being present at that point in time, I don't think we would have managed to go that far with the hiring of the the aircraft.

[00:40:38]And then I think if I didn't get this one corrected, I think there was a question about whether the whether whether they had knowledge of the Vice President was there a change of program? I don't know. I think >> Uh um uh no, I think the one that is remaining, Chair, >> Mhm.

[00:40:54]>> is about uh Sunbed.

[00:40:58]Yeah. Um the receipts are there. I've seen them. The payments is uh payment receipts are there, but I want you to confirm um um if there was a credit note issued to the group um from Sunbed or not.

[00:41:15]There's a reason why I I we need that information.

[00:41:22]>> Okay, from the evidence that I have, the the because that was like like disbursements, that was uh that money didn't go to MDF. That money was sent to the pilot.

[00:41:36]And if you look at the the account number on that proof of payment, it's an account number of the late pilot who was flying that plane.

[00:41:44]The I think we It's for three people, accommodation for three people, and the dinner.

[00:41:50]So, we sent that money directly to him because of the agency of the matter, so that they go and pay for themselves at the hotel.

[00:41:58]That is what we did.

[00:41:59]Thank you.

[00:42:02]>> Chair, supplementary.

[00:42:03]>> Sorry.

[00:42:04]>> Uh Chair, um I'm asking my question having a >> You go through the Chair. I need to recognize, otherwise there will be chaos.

[00:42:10]>> Sorry, Chair.

[00:42:11]>> Okay.

[00:42:12]Yes, I rise.

[00:42:14]>> Mwa City, South, Zomba Town Dwe, and Nkhata Bay North. I think that should be the last one.

[00:42:22]>> Thank you, chair.

[00:42:23]Supplementary to what the council has responded in relation to my questions.

[00:42:28]Council, you have said you got a text message around 11:43 a.m. from someone who was at a funeral saying the funeral has started. Is that correct?

[00:42:38]>> No, I was present myself at the funeral.

[00:42:40]So, that member was having sending. I shall I confirm yes, it started around that time cuz I was there. So, Okay, so some members were there, but some because it was a group of friends.

[00:42:48]So, friends other friends didn't make it to the funeral. But, as that that that the funeral service has started, but the the vice president is not there. In fact, it was raining heavily on that day. That could have also contributed.

[00:43:02]We couldn't start the function.

[00:43:05]It was heavy heavy rains in Mzuzu as well as in Nkhata Bay.

[00:43:09]So, it might it might also have contributed to the late of the start of the program with or without the the other factors, but it started around that time. Yeah.

[00:43:18]>> No, chair, I wanted him to confirm because someone saying function has started does not mean that exactly that time it has started. It might have started an hour earlier. It has still started. So, I just wanted that to be on record.

[00:43:33]Chair, um >> [snorts] >> the council has also said um the program was drawn up, the funeral program, around 8:00 p.m. after he had known through his ADC for Nkhata Bay that the VP would be coming.

[00:43:50]Chair, you might want to triangulate that because the chair was who was here before him participated also in the drawing of the funeral program. And yeah, if I remember correctly, the program was drafted before he knew that the VP would be coming. I submit.

[00:44:11]>> Somatundwe and then Councillor >> Yeah, I wanted to say the same things especially on the the the time because I was looking at the difference comparing what Councillor said and what he said. But he earlier on he had said that I we have a message somewhere. So I was going to ask for evidence on the message. But again, if you say the started, it may not necessarily mean it's starting that time. So I just wanted to be on the same page with him for the sake of the record.

[00:44:43]Say unless you provide us with the evidence to give us a picture that at least by that time the function had started, but it not necessarily meaning that it was starting that time.

[00:44:54]So through you, Chair, that's what I That was my concern.

[00:44:57]The other one it marries with what Councillor Sithebe South has said.

[00:45:00]Thank you.

[00:45:01]>> Councillor Ben North, you may wrap up.

[00:45:04]>> Thank you, Chair. I think Councillor has tackled my questions. Uh I was the first person to to ask. Uh I I just wanted to understand who changes the original plan of transportation.

[00:45:21]Another one it was about the weather.

[00:45:24]Because you were you were there at the airport uh waiting for the men of the later