Military service can provide a structured pathway to financial freedom through disciplined savings, specialized training, and access to benefits like VA loans that enable property investment at young ages. The speaker, who joined the US military at 16 during the Iraq War, used his military experience and VA loan benefits to purchase his first rental property at 22, demonstrating how military discipline, benefits, and structured training can be leveraged to build wealth through real estate investing.
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Humvees, Counter-Strike & Financial Freedom - Ryan Fagan | Coffee Pump (E096)Added:
Do you use boders by the way?
>> No. No. Thank you. Don't don't risk that [ __ ] >> This is an American war veteran >> who's telling you not to use boders, >> right? He's been through this [ __ ] mortars and stuff, and he's told you not to do it.
>> See, like I see people handling weapons here and I lose my mind. Like actually the other day there's a guy who's leaning on the barrel of the AK with his hands on top of it. Like so if you were in the US like someone would like slap the heck out of like they would tackle you. What are you doing?
>> And the ironic thing in the military is if you lose a sensitive item. So like night vision goggles even like the sight on your weapon like if you have a red dot sight no one can go home until you locate it.
>> Seriously?
>> Yeah. You'll get in a lot of trouble.
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>> You're from New Jersey.
>> Yes.
>> Tell me about your early days. You didn't just grow up and say, "I want to do properties." You you had a stint in the military, right? So, let's let's let's lead up to that. How did that happen?
>> So, man, I don't that's a tough one.
Okay. So, I I guess I'll start with this with the real estate a little bit because I just >> my dad was interested in real estate, but he never really got into it. But I just remember him talking to his friends or whatever about real estate and was like, you know, you buy one property, you rent it out, you buy another property, you rent it out. And that simple concept.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> And I I always worked really hard. So, I had two jobs at one point, three jobs at one point, you know, while I was going to high school and stuff like that. Um, cuz I always wanted to be independent, even young. And so, I was like, wait, so if you just keep buying properties, eventually you don't have to work because you'll just get the rent.
>> That's correct.
>> So, that very simple concept stuck in my head from like 16 years old.
>> Okay.
>> So, then you fast forward maybe a year later. Um, at the time, you know, all the wars were going on. Was this Was this now the 2005?
Yeah. Yeah.
>> What the Desert Storm was that Desert Storm?
>> No, that's the '9s. Um, but >> this was back in Afghanistan.
>> Afghanistan and then Iraq started 2003.
So, it's crazy. In high school, I'm watching this the beginning of the invasion. Yeah.
>> You know, I'm like a a freshman or or a sophomore in high school.
>> And then fast forward, recruiters are everywhere trying to get people to join.
They were offering a lot of bonuses. And what appealed to me is they'll pay for your university um after you get out. Um there's a lot of other benefits plus you can gain exper work experience. So instead of being a broke college student and going through that stuff and taking out a lot of student debt because you know it's very expensive in the US.
>> I was like I guess I'll join. And they're like you won't deploy. you won't have to you know that they tell you tell you >> and then and then what's that song that's playing you know the Vietnam song that normally is synonymous the song that's synonymous with Vietnam >> uh where the the troopers are in the helicopter just going off that's basically going as soon as I get out of uh basic training and AIT advanced individual training I get assigned to Germany and as soon as I get there they were like you're deploying >> Jesus I I want to touch talk a bit about the military because I've always been interested in that. So you mentioned they they advertised to you. How did they approach you the recruitment initially because you're in school still at that time? You're 16 17, right?
>> So I had a friend first that joined they had a program where when you were 17 you could go for the summer to basic training.
>> Okay.
>> And then you finish your senior year in high school and then you ship out to your advanced individual training. So as a minor, you're with grown men doing basic training.
>> Jesus, >> doing all that stuff.
>> So he was telling us his experience and >> at the time I don't know if you ever seen boys in the hood.
>> I have. Yeah.
>> But you know his dad's like the black man don't got no space in in the white man's army. And so that was my point of view like why the heck would I join the army?
>> Yeah.
>> And then I don't know they just started convincing me. I I really don't know where the recruiter came from. I really can't remember. Okay. Like I remember driving one time and Marine recruiters like flagged me down while I was driving. Like they're hanging out the window. Marines are crazy.
>> Jesus.
>> So like at the time recruiters were everywhere. Like if you went to the mall they'd approach you. Like it was really really crazy.
>> And so the incentive this obviously patriotism as well they play on that.
But you're saying heavily monetary as well. They pay you a university. They give you bonuses. And what were the bonuses like? Was it like >> 20,000?
>> No way to sign up.
>> Yeah. And when you're 16, 17, if you've never really been exposed to that kind of money, that's a lot, right?
>> That seems like an impossible amount of money at the time. I'm making $7 an hour.
>> I know three people would sign up in that room today.
>> I I think I someone was telling me it's even more. It can be 40 or someone said 70. I don't know if that's true, but >> So, the way it works is you go to basic training first.
>> It's eight weeks.
>> What What does What's involved in basic training?
>> All the stuff you see in TV, but >> literally like you're going and doing physical yelling at you, >> you know, you have to do your marksmanship training, you got to work out in the morning. The beginning starts pretty boring. You have classes, but if you fall asleep >> and what are the classes like? Is it educate? Is it com mostly combat classes?
>> It's all introducing you just to >> like indoctrinating you into the army culture.
>> Okay.
>> PowerPoints about, you know, what you're supposed to do, stuff like that. Um, so pretty boring. And then you get into like learning about your weapon. Usually M M16, M4. Um, you know, it's it's not really that much. It's just like >> it's very regimented. Like you have to get up a certain time, you have to do things at a certain time.
>> That's the best thing about the military because even though it sucks and you're getting yelled at and you know whatever, like you knew you were going to eat lunch and dinner and breakfast. So just turn your brain off. Do whatever you're supposed to do, >> right?
Now we get to eat. Now you have 10 minutes maybe because the last the last person to sit down after they get their food, you only have a couple minutes and then you have to >> No way.
>> And then you have to run everywhere. So people would like throw up because >> you just eat and then you have to run to >> the next formation.
>> You can't walk.
>> No. No.
>> Good. No, no wonder you get in shape very silly stuff though. I mean, it's not like, you know, it's just >> I guess it's to instill discipline as well.
>> Yeah. Just do what >> follow orders. Do what you're told.
That's the main thing is just switch your brain off. Do what you're told.
Right.
>> Yeah. Because I mean, and it makes a lot of sense. The military teaches leadership. Like the best way to learn leadership is through the military because it's about accountability. If if you're late, people can die. If you don't follow like if if we're clearing this room, I have I'm turning left and you're turning right. If I don't do that and I don't clear my area, your friend can die. Yeah. So there's no like individuality with like that kind of stuff. You just should do what you >> should do what you do. So basic training after that, what happens then?
>> Then you go to AIT. So you pick a job.
So and it it's based off of like your test scores and what what jobs are available to you. Um you know there's infantry, artillery, there's computers, there's administration, logistics. What about like in terms of the Navy, the the Marine Corps? There's Buds training as well. That's something specifically for a certain >> Buds is uh Navy Seal stuff.
>> You have to be selected for that kind of stuff generally. So, you usually can't just sign up and go straight there, right?
>> In the army, you can do >> you can have a airborne package. So, after basic training, you'll go to airborne school. You'll learn how to jump out of airplanes. They have air assault, which is coming down helicopters.
Um but special forces and stuff like that, you usually have to be selected after you're already >> Okay. But you have to go through basic training first and then and then they say, "All right, this guy's got the chops."
>> Yeah. Well, you usually will go to your unit and then your unit >> can nominate you to go to special forces training and stuff like that.
>> That's a completely different set of training skills.
>> Yeah, that's a whole different world.
>> Okay. Okay. So, you went through AIT and what did you select then?
>> I had 25 Bravo information systems specialists. My dad was into computers and I was into computers. So, we built computers. We even had like a Counter-Strike server and all kinds of gaming. I don't Hey, >> he's a big Fuzza is actually a big Counter Strike guy.
>> I used to So, the I was always a console gamer. Okay.
>> Never really into PCs. Then I had gone to Karach and this is maybe around 2001 2000.
>> Um I think around that time. So, they used to have these gaming dens.
>> Oh, right. where they have like LAN network set up >> man >> and you're like 50 PCs >> it's so cool >> upstairs downstairs and there's like all these people yelling in udu you know bansshot this and that and playing Counter Strike and I said let me just try it and dude we stay there for like 8 hours >> playing PC the kid next to me was like press F1 F2 like click this just to get your guns automatically I'm like they're clicking and selecting and everyone's waiting for me you know because there's at the start of the team, you have to have wait till everyone selected their guns, right? People are abusing me. That was my first exposure into Counter-Strike, by the way. Shout out, that's actually >> really nice. Are you a pro? You're pro Counter-Strike.
>> Really?
>> If you can consider like this region of Africa, >> I did compete for a little bit. I spent like eight seven years playing it. I've got like 8,000 hours in CS now.
>> Oh man, >> that's crazy. To be ranked is crazy.
>> Yeah. The thing the ping is too high here. I was going to ask the ping because I play League of Legends.
>> But but I can't play because of the ping. It's >> You play League alone. I'm already sorry for you.
>> I'm not a rager though. I don't get mad.
>> See, we have South African servers. Is it >> South African servers would be the best?
>> Is that my problem? Cuz I'm I'm >> You're going back to States. Yeah. You would have to play regionally. So, >> but you need like a 40 ping to play.
Like I I mean >> you're just 60 to South Africa.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Which connectivity provider do you use?
Oh man, don't get me started.
>> We We'll have to get >> you also. Also, if you're on your League account, you have a US account. You'll have to make another account.
>> Is that my problem?
>> Mhm.
>> So, this whole time I just been playing TFT because I can't I can't play League.
>> So, you're a gamer as well.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I love That's how you save money.
>> He's a PC gamer is all you see. Yeah.
>> Yeah. That's how you heard that's how you save money because you stay at home and you be a good boy and you play Red Dead Redemption like 650 hours.
>> Build a PC. I'll be >> You got to have a PC, man.
>> All right. That's a console is weird.
This is That's like a separate podcast, by the way. That's like a whole another podcast. We'll dive into why I feel consoles are better.
>> I've just been a console guy all the time.
>> Yeah.
>> But he's deserved.
>> He builds PCs, gaming PCs. So, he built my brothers.
>> Fahad is a Call of Duty gamer. He's part of a esports team based out in South Africa. But the problem is just the gaming culture is still very young. So they're not really reaping the benefits of their time.
>> I see.
>> I mean, you you play a competition for a weekend and you get like a Red Bull case as your price.
>> You got to do it for the love of the game.
>> Exactly, man. They don't have those bonuses for signing up, you know, in the military. If they did, they would sign up as well.
>> Get there, you know, eventually.
>> Okay. So, so you you you get into advanced IT training.
>> Uh is it IT training? We call it training. And you specifically focus now on the ICT >> computer networking basically all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Dude, I can imagine the data centers of the US Army, man. Must be insane.
>> You know, growing up, you watch we had the History Channel and they'd have all these documentaries about, oh, the Humvey, it can do all this stuff. And the army technology.
>> Yeah.
>> Humvey half the time doesn't work. We're on the autobond in Germany. It can only go 60 miles an hour, 50 miles an hour. You got the pedal all the way.
>> I think Arnold made that car popular, right? Just because he bought it in the '9s.
>> Well, the car was different than the actual military one. Like it doesn't have doors. Actually, it during the Iraq invasion in the beginning. That was a big problem because Humvees don't have armor.
>> Really? I thought they were.
>> They did not have any armor. Now, so then after all the IED attacks and and we started adapting, now they've modified the Humvey to have hundreds of pounds of armor on it.
>> Yeah.
>> But it was never designed for that. Like it was a piece of crap. Like horrible.
>> Well, you just have to deal with it though.
>> Yeah. And you hit a bump and you hit your head on like if you don't have your Kevlar helmet on, you'll you'll >> Was it like leaf spring suspension or any Any Anyway, I didn't know that. I knew it was quite big. American cars generally are very big.
>> Imagine trying to drive like a Cadillac outside over here and try and park.
>> Yeah. I have a a Ranger here. It's hard to park there. I took a Uber here cuz I wasn't >> Yeah. Yeah. You'd probably not get through the gate.
>> Yeah. It's still >> Okay. So, how long then did you spend within the ICT sphere within the military then?
>> I just did four years.
>> And this was now stationed where? Uh I was stationed in Germany but from there I did 15 months in Iraq >> and then I went back to um Fort Hood Texas.
>> Can you talk about that Iraq period? I mean do you want to talk about is that is that okay?
>> No I don't have >> I want to be I don't have any crazy things going on really.
>> Right. So how was it the exposure though like landing over there the first experience?
>> I It's funny cuz you feel scared when you first land like are we going to like what's going it's like camp victory is very safe. I mean it's >> huge base.
>> Um so I mean there's what I realiz is there's a lot of civilians there >> just like you guys complain about corruption here. It's the same thing that whole war I feel like is corruption. I'm looking at all these civilians like we have something called a PX which is like um like a care for a store.
>> It's at Camp Victory. The cashier is making more money than me.
>> No.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. So, I was talking to the cashier and they're like, "Oh, yeah. I make all this money taxree." And I'm like, "I've made I've made a life mistake here."
Like, what's wrong?
>> What's wrong with in That's actually what I realized is even in Somalia, in Bogadishu, in a lot of those green zones.
>> Oh, yeah. They make money.
>> They make so much money because getting this stuff that's seen as common into a war tone >> area, you sort of charge a premium, right? Heck >> yeah.
>> You want Reese's pieces? 15 bucks >> for two of them. I'll take half. and we're desperate for a little pay.
>> Okay.
>> Can I can I add something? I do not know. I saw a documentary. I can't remember if it's Iraq or Afghanistan, but there's also the weapon bazars. Like when the military leave, they just leave all their weapons there.
>> Yeah. Well, I didn't have any experience with that, but I know what you're talking about.
>> Tell him about it. I want to see how he reacts to >> Well, we leave our equipment. Like when we left Afghanistan, there was a big complaint about that cuz we left all the Humvees and all kinds of stuff. You just leave it to them. Like, >> but you know that basically goes into the gray market or the black market.
>> Now all of a sudden people running around with M16s, M4s, they got rocket launchers, >> right? Didn't your didn't your didn't your dad just buy like some rocket launchers from Afghanistan.
>> He's pointing at the USMC.
>> But yeah, that's essentially what happens is they stay back and then people just siphon that stuff off. And the ironic thing in the military is if you lose a sensitive item, so like night vision, goggles, even like the sight on your weapon, like if you have a red dot site, no one can go home until you locate it.
>> Seriously?
>> Yeah. You'll get in a lot of trouble.
>> Okay. And so at during that time in Iraq, did you have any combat exposure?
>> No, just mortars and stuff and just hope you don't get blown up. I mean, that's really was my experience. So you'll be at Camp Victory or a different base. Um the sirens go off like at Camp Victory is the main base in Baghdad. We had the failank systems that's on the aircraft carriers, right? So it's like a super minigun. So when mortars would come in, it would just shoot them.
>> But how far was the I mean was within the base.
>> Yeah.
>> So they would drive on the highway and shoot like little mortars, I guess.
>> Was it automated? This this >> Yeah. It's like a computer.
>> Damn.
>> So it just like it just sounds like a lawn mower. It's like like you don't hear individual bullets coming out of it. just shoot stuff down.
>> So from an external perspective, you know, you see obviously America is this big grand place. The military is always I mean with the movies the personification of the military is it's like Master Chief 117, you know, Halo type warriors going over there. Best military tech might. Would you say that it's changed? Because of late I've seen the training as well. There's a particular group and whether they're Navy Seals or Marines um is it GBRS group? Have you heard of them?
>> Um, we can put them up over here. But the type of military training these guys are doing and some of the guys within the US military, man, they're like the pioneer when it comes to weapon handlings and like how you just mentioned clearing rooms as well.
>> Yeah.
>> That's not something that's very common knowledge to a lot of people, right?
Like getting >> the average people. But uh it's weird because the US Army is very and I'm Look, I'm I only did four years, so I'm not trying to be some military expert here. Um, but the a little bit of training goes a long way. Like honestly, like when I see >> like I see people handling weapons here and I lose my mind. Like actually the other day there's a guy who's leaning on the barrel of the AK with his hands on top of it. Like so if you were in the US like someone would like slap the heck out of like they would tackle you what are you doing?
Yeah. So, you know, not to be too critical, but I the some police here.
I'm like, >> dude, >> the handling >> Yeah.
>> is like even though I did four years in the military, it especially in those formative years, it's like built into your brain.
>> So, like I see people do things that is like >> what are you doing? not nearly acceptable, you know, like someone and that's the thing about the US Army is the accountability. Like if you do something wrong, a random person will come out of nowhere and scream at you.
>> So you you're kind of bullied into behaving properly.
>> Exactly. So you you spent then 15 months now in Iraq and then after that >> uh I went back to Germany for a little bit and then got reassigned back to Texas. That's when I bought my first rental property. So during my whole deployment, I'm reading about buying property. There was a internet forum Bigger Pockets way back in the day that I read everything on there cuz you had it's kind of like being in jail because like so I was at a JSS site which is probably like 40 guys and we were attached to an Iraqi police station. So basically our job was to teach the Iraqi police and my specific job was to provide communications for reports all that kind of stuff. So sometimes you know we would go out on patrols with the police.
Iraq is crazy. Like cuz I work with the civil affairs guys pretty closely and so like the area we were inh I got to remember exactly it was a Sunni area that there was predominantly Shia near surround it. So what would happen is the Shia laws are a little bit different with how women are supposed to walk with men and stuff. So like >> the I forget if the police are Sunni or Shia to be honest if I I can recall it but basically the police the national police were predominantly one side and so they would just hop out the car and beat a man and a woman for like >> not adhering to the proper you know cultural rules.
>> Such a different culture. But then that guy's family would go and shoot stuff up, you know, and and so we get the reports back and it's like, oh, they, you know, shot a whole bunch of bullets at some house or something >> and >> but no one's usually gets shot. I don't know what's like.
>> Would you would you would you ever find any hostility towards you that you're American from the locals? I mean, you're not I didn't really interact with them that much when you're on patrol and especially, you know, >> I volunteered for a couple patrols just because how boring it gets. Like, you're literally within >> a small compound. So, like you lose your mind. There's nothing to do like, >> right?
>> So, I'm like, okay, I'll go on some patrols and it's, you know, you're not allowed to stand still because you don't want to get sniper shoot you or anything like that. Like, there's certain best practices that you have, but >> you're always on edge, right? head on your head's on a swivel the whole time you're there.
>> You try.
>> I mean, I can imagine it's like walking out and just like constantly just >> you know, it wasn't that common for me to be outside.
>> Right. Right. Right.
>> So, they're probably so used to it that there just like, you know, whatever.
>> Are you into conspiracy theories?
>> Some, you know, co changed my mind about all that. because I was I mean you you go down this and people will [ __ ] on me because I' i've just become this conspiracy nut and it's ever since I started this podcast and Eric was Eric the gentleman I was telling you every other time with Eric he was telling me I've gone so deep in the rabbit hole that the reals now I'm watching of conspiracy theory in French so it's it's that embedded so is the tomb of Giggamesh Gilgamesh the sort of the reason we went to war over there part of the reason.
>> Have you heard of that train of >> thought? Apparently, he's like a demigod.
>> Yeah, I know. Gil, the story of Gilgamesh. It's like the first king that has any written history or something like that.
>> There's also story.
>> There's also some of these recordings.
He's introduced me to Reddit as well.
>> Oh boy.
>> Where this UFO activity happening within war torn areas, specifically warrone areas. I'm not sure if you you guys had any rumors about seeing UAPs or UFOs during the war.
>> Not that I'm aware of. Yeah, >> dude. Ryan, you're disappointing me.
>> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I can't I can't uh >> Maybe it's like he's part of the >> I'm part of it.
>> He's part of it. So, he has to pretend.
Yeah.
>> Yeah. Lizard person. Exactly.
>> I mean, he did mention lizard person, so that means they're true. But have you heard of that stuff? Like lizard person?
>> I've heard of it, you know. I don't know.
>> Has anyone in the military seen your do that lady had like weird eyes?
>> Like we got to investigate this. you you know you don't deal with women when you're deployed that much. So >> you would definitely pay attention to the lady's eyes cuz that's what you could see.
>> Right. So we we need we need Ryan to warm up before we get into conspiracy episode. So we'll save that for the next episode.
>> Yeah. I can't feed the conspiracies.
>> Not yet. So you mentioned now you invested in your first property. So at the back of your mind, this was always there that I need to buy my first property. So you're saving up towards it. How did you did you just buy it flat out right? I had a whole life plan from 16 from that one time hearing my dad talk. I'm telling you that it was a whole plan. I was going to go once the recruiter approached me I was like wait I can make money in the military and get experience and pay for college. That's what I'm doing and then I'm going to buy property. So I mean when you're deployed to Iraq you really can't spend money but you're getting paid. So it's easy to save. So I was saving money. Um, and I was researching about real estate investing. So, when I got back, I was ready to go. Plus, uh, veterans get what's called a VA loan in the US. So, you can buy a property with 0% down.
>> Really?
>> Yeah. No money. Free, >> dude.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, at the time, the rates are like 3%.
>> What's the tenure? Like, how long? 30 years.
>> Jesus Christ. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> 30 years. 0%.
>> But here's No. No. 0% down.
>> Oh, 0% down.
>> Need to put in.
>> I thought you saying 0% interest.
>> No, no, no, no. 3%. Sign me up, right?
>> 3% interest though. It's almost, >> which is not bad.
>> It's free money.
>> Yeah, >> that's the inflation rate at the time, you know, 3% about. So, I mean, I bought a fourunit property, so it had four single family houses attached to it.
Basically, it's one building, but four different.
>> If you don't mind asking, can we talk numbers? How much did you put put down?
>> Yeah, I paid one. So this is after the financial crisis. So this is uh >> 2009 >> 2009 >> is I closed in 2010 about on the property. So everything had crashed. It was an investor. They paid 240,000 for it. These numbers are so low now. It's crazy. Uh I paid 176 0% down >> properties basically. basically. Um, and I I I think the rent was around $700 per unit.
>> So, okay. Um, I'm If we can track back a bit. So, these properties already had occupied tenants.
>> Yeah, it was occupied.
>> And so, you're just buying it and you're basically taking over the rent >> literally. And it already had a property management company and I kept it the same company. So, the other PE and I moved. So, you have to occupy the property to use the VA loan.
>> Okay.
>> So, I moved into one of the units.
>> Okay. And then so I was getting rent from the three others but they didn't know I was the owner. Ah >> because I didn't want to deal with the management.
>> Right.
>> So and then the army pays you housing assistance.
>> What is that?
>> Like what the rent is in the area.
They'll pay that to you once you're able to move.
>> So you're basically living for free then?
>> More than free because the three units were cash flowing. So I was making some money and then I'm getting rent from the army essentially.
>> Okay. So each of them are paying about you what? 700 bucks, 800 bucks.
>> Yeah. So 700 times three.
>> So you're getting 21,100. And then the arm is also giving you in.
>> Yeah. I think it was probably another 700.
>> And how much were you paying every month for that?
>> I don't really It's probably like $1,200 $1,400.
>> Yeah. Try and get try and [ __ ] do that in Kenya, bro. Well, Ryan will adise us now on the way forward because here's the thing. The the thing that stings me is our parents were able to buy properties in a time here in Kenya where interest rates were you could deal with them right uh inflation wasn't that high earning power was quite significant >> but at our age when we get to 30s or 25s buying a property here is still a very foreign concept and I understand majority of your viewers are Americans now trying to buy in Kenya but you're also you're also sort of blaring the r lines between Kenyan investors as well looking to you to see where you'd invest. Yeah, you'd be surprised. A lot of Kenyans uh also watch. But yeah, you know, it's a I think it's a worldwide problem though with affordability since co that's a conspiracy.
>> I think it is >> because you know I have a younger brother, much younger brother. He's 25 26 now. I And for Gen Z's I think their prospects are so bad now because now in the US we have higher rates. Not as high as you guys, but you know, 6% plus the the average home price went from $250,000 in 2019 to 400450,000 US today. So the price doubled, the interest rate doubled. So you can't do the opportunities that I I had at the time.
>> Yeah.
>> Today. So if you did all the same things, you would not have the same opportunity that I have or had at the time. And so I think I think it's a huge problem for the young people. I I really across the world really because I see it here as well with the affordability.
You're seeing the prices go up. I don't know what that consult report was talking about because I'm seeing the report the prices continue to go up. I just got >> someone sent me info of a new project that's even crazier price. Every time I see the prices here, it's it's another level higher.
>> It doesn't make sense given all the construction that's happening. And we'll get to Kenya. I mean, we we'll circle back to that. So, now back to your journey. You've bought this property, you're getting the rental income. I mean, if you're paying 1,200 a month and you're getting extra on top and >> it was crazy.
>> And your dream sort of fulfilled there like that in in you're a property owner now, right?
>> Yeah.
>> So, then what happened? And like I didn't even understand what was happening in the process. Like cuz I got money back at closing when I signed. I I don't I didn't understand it at the time, but I had actually given them a deposit. And because the the the VA loan pays for so much, I got like some of my money back. I'm like, how am I buying a property and getting money?
>> It's crazy.
>> How old were you when you first bought it?
>> 22, >> dude.
>> I think. Yeah.
>> I don't even want to know how many properties you have now.
>> No. No. So, but but okay. With the financial crisis, it was hard for me to get a job. So, I was going to school and you know, they they were like, "Oh, the military, they hire veterans." Not not during that time. So, I had planned if the economy wasn't bad, I would have kept buying properties because you need a job to qualify for the bank. So, I was in school, but I wasn't able to find like good employment.
>> What were you studying now?
>> Uh, what the heck was I doing? Oh my gosh. I ended up doing business administration with a focus in real estate.
>> Okay.
>> So, it's kind of like a business administration finance degree.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> And so, did that really help then land you a gig or something?
>> No, it's never really helped me to be honest.
>> Scrap un former military person. Scrap scrap degrees. We don't need degrees.
>> Especially today, like why would you spend money unless you're engineering, lawyer, >> like a specialized course, correct?
Yeah.
>> Don't do it.
>> Like if if if I go back to studying the accounting and finance and all the failed papers and low GPA and the four years wasted.
>> I mean, dude, I would have done something different. But at the time, you know, that train of thought wasn't there because it's Kenya was still >> it's changing, but it was a very traditional society. Mhm.
>> You finish school, you go to university, you get a good job, you get married, and you settle down, and that's it. That's the rest of your life.
>> I think somewhere along Andrew Tate came a bit too late.
>> Yeah. I mean, it's important though because it's a it's a bad game now.
Yeah. But people are still doing what was working before.
>> So, you're still based in New Jersey uh during your studies?
>> So, yeah. Uh I went to Temple University in Philadelphia, which is right across the bridge. Yeah.
>> Now, the property journey though. So you wanted to dive deeper into it and I I think one of your videos I saw is that you realized that you could buy it and flip it and do many multiple things.
What was the journey then to come to where you are right now? What happened then?
>> So yeah I was going to school. Um I got my real estate license. So in the US you need a license to help people buy and sell properties, right?
>> Um so I would do that on the side.
>> Okay.
>> Um around 2011.
Um, so I would do that, but you know, you only make money when you when you actually find somebody and help them. So it's 100% commission and it's very challenging to start. Um, >> 100% commission in terms of like if if you sell a property for $100,000.
>> No. No. So you would get like 3% >> split. So you get 60% of the 3%. Okay.
Maybe 80% if you had a good deal.
>> That's not bad. I mean, so the bigger the properties, it's actually pretty good, right?
>> But it's a hard business. There's a lot of people in it and it's not as it's not selling sunset like a lot of people think it >> is. If you've seen the shows on Netflix, what is like Dubai Property and LA Property?
>> Yeah.
>> Where they have a bunch of people just selling multiple millions of dollars worth of investment and flipping it.
Some of that thing's made up, right? I mean, >> I don't I don't think they show you the inner workings of what those deals and the commission actually looks like.
>> It's not that easy though, is it? M >> like in LA especially like given the real estate over there. You know, some of the prices are quite exorbitant.
>> It's probably the same reason why I've been doing pretty good here is that it's really more about marketing >> than anything else. Um yes, like you provide value with your knowledge, but really the like who's using them girls that are that are buying these money? Like really?
>> Yeah.
>> You know what I mean? Like it it's really about marketing.
>> It's marketing. It's making it seem better than it actually is.
>> And you have to find someone that's thinking about buying a house cuz most people don't care about real estate until they've made a decision in their mind.
>> There's a gentleman based out in New York. Is it called Sarah?
>> Yeah. Ryan.
>> Ryan Sand. What do you think of him?
>> Uh he wanted to be an actor. So I don't trust him >> by the way. Yeah. You you were about to you about to hit the >> I don't even know which one to go with that one cuz I agree but like >> but he's yeah I think it's >> it's show man it's show there's a lot to it there's a Netflix show as well that's come out I will say it has benefited him in terms of what he's doing because it seems like he's making quite a lot of money but >> yeah I don't want to be a hater like but >> it's for sure like you know >> well we could start something in East Africa you and I can partner up dye my [ __ ] hair Right. And then we'll just we'll call it Nairobi Luxury Properties and we'll create drama, >> right? Ryan and I will be friends and then at the end of it, >> we'll get a third party involved and she'll split us up and there'll be drama over there.
>> Well, we should be the brokers and hire a whole bunch of ladies and then let them have the drama.
>> That's what's up. And yeah, it's it's halal. It's work.
>> The Nairobi version.
>> The Nairobi version, right?
>> It's a good idea.
>> Yeah, that's actually a really good idea. producer mark that up special episode 100. Okay. So back to your journey now. So you did you buy any other property then in between studying and >> so it was a bit of a struggle. Um but yeah I ended up >> I ended up by 2019 having 10 units. So I had a forplex, duplex, and then three or four single families. And then um me and my friend would flip houses. So we buy a house, >> fix it up, sell it.
>> Interesting.
>> But that is not that's not investing.
>> That is you're arbitrageing the difference between the construction cost of buying the property and then the resale price of it really. And because no one wants to buy a crappy property because they just want to buy something to live in. You're willing to take the risk of fixing it up. So you're getting the margin in between of that.
>> Is it a very profitable venture in terms of time invested?
>> It can be. Yeah. You have to get a good deal.
>> Sorry, one second. What's >> Yeah, I hear interference.
>> What is that?
>> Is that the phone?
>> Mic check. Mic check. One two. One two.
That's okay.
>> Yeah. Um, sorry. What I was asking was, is that worth doing it in terms of the time invested versus the returns? Can it be like a profitable venture?
>> So, I I did about eight or nine of them. Uh, two we worked for free basically because we didn't make any money. So, actually the last one I did in 2022 or something. Um, did I still hear that interference? Is that the That's the construction.
>> That's the construction outside. Yeah.
But he'll he'll he'll get it done in Yeah. So, it was the biggest property we ever did.
And >> how big?
>> It ended up selling for 800,000 USD and we bought it for maybe five 475.
I don't It was a horrible experience. I don't want to remember it again because this is a problem in the US.
You need permits for everything. They changed. Now I got to get an architect for the a deck.
>> Like Yeah.
>> So everything you do in the house, you have to get a permit.
>> Yes.
>> They should come to Kenya, man. I mean, the guy's building a whole thing. That's why I'm here.
>> And he has still hasn't got his [ __ ] permit.
>> Oh my god. Yeah. So, and we'll get into that cuz I think it's I think >> we're overregulated >> over here >> and in the US.
>> Oh, in the US. In the US. Yeah.
>> So, the level of opportunity is very low. You had to be like a millionaire to really be very effective at doing anything.
>> I'm also curious how you went from one property to those multiple properties.
Was it borrowing more money from the bank? Was it your own personal investment? How how how would someone go and do and achieve that?
>> Well, the problem is now it's >> not really feasible, but at the time >> save your money. So, I used the VA loan 0% down and it cash flows. So, it it makes sense, right? Um >> then there's FHA, which everyone has access to. What is that?
>> Um Federal Housing Administration. and it's a loan that was made after World War II to help um veterans be able to buy homes, although the VA loan also was part of that.
>> And so they would insure the loan up to a certain amount if you defaulted, which allowed the banks to give lower interest rates or or lower down payments. So basically, anyone can do that for their first loan. So it's three and a half% down. So then I use that once I had enough money saved. And then, you know, and I just bought a single family property that the rent was more than the mortgage. I don't remember the exact numbers, but probably making $500 a month after everything.
>> But actually, that stuff doesn't actually work out in the long run because your capital expenditures for like fixing the roof and the plumbing and all that stuff, it catches up with you later actually.
>> So, you actually need a bigger margin.
But um then there's then then I was able to do something at 10% down and they gave me the money to fix up the property um which is a home ready homestyle loan.
Again, these are all different special loan programs that you can take advantage of.
>> You have to be incredibly disciplined as well because you're borrowing and you're buying properties that have tenants already. So you're getting a return and you have to pay your in you have to pay back the bank. But what the thing that's working for you is obviously low interest rates and maybe sometimes 0% down.
>> Well, the thing about real estate, I mean, you can know what the rent's going to be and you know what your financing cost is >> and then you just have to fill in the blanks with management.
>> Do you have to like u there's normally here 3% annual escalation when it comes to contracts or 5% or even 10% when it comes to rent within the US. Is that the same?
>> Usually you would have a one-year lease.
So then you would just renegotiate the lease term at the end.
>> And when you renegotiate, you completely renegotiate like complete like different terms. So you can triple.
>> Well, unless you're in socialist New York now where you they're trying to stop you from doing everything, but um you can raise the rent >> or they have to move out. But >> Okay, fair enough. And that's >> but but you you talk about discipline.
This see when I was doing it, I thought I was a genius. I'm like, dang. But but when COVID happened and people stopped paying rent and stuff, >> I realized how people can go broke in real estate because that debt you have to pay it no matter what. And the government was basically letting people not pay the rent and saying that they're going to give you the stipen, but the government works so slow it could be months before then. Now you're behind on like So you could have asset value and be broke and lose everything. So you could have a million dollars in real estate, but you can't access the money when you need to access it and you can lose everything. It's really that. So I had that epiphany and that's part of the reason how I ended up coming to Kenya because it's more cash based or at least you know we have the dollar advantage.
Yes. Coming here >> plus the the income and all that. Um but the debt started being a little scary >> and this was now over co because >> the rents uh I think that was a interesting time for everyone but you managed through it then eventually like did you ever have any instant where you had to let go of a property because you couldn't >> no but the pressure was there like >> you have to find >> like let one tenant act crazy and just decide to not pay and there's no you're not going to have recourse. This is a problem in the US. That's what I wanted to as a follow-up question is if someone doesn't pay in Kenya >> like >> Saj do you know someone who can get this guy out of the house you you can find ways to clear them out >> exactly >> that's maybe we shouldn't say this >> I can add a thing over here is even here they kangumu you you can't they'll go to small claims they'll stick you up in court ask me how I know >> right so let's talk a bit more about this because this happened in the UK to my uncle he had invested in student housing which is quite affordable especially in new universities you you basically buy them cheap you do them up >> and then you rent them out to students so one particular student stopped paying rent um but later found out he wasn't a student he was actually a resident some south Indian dude who'd been there for many years he refused to pay rent he says I'm broke I can't do anything >> and they tried to evict him but you can't evict him there's a process by which you have to go >> and I was like but it's my property And I can't kick him off for not paying.
He ended up staying for a year.
>> Mhm.
>> A year not paying rent, right? Before they had to go to court and there was recourse and then and my uncle still did not get any money from that.
>> Yeah. You won't get anything, >> dude. But one year >> they could steal because landlords are evil, the whole thing. And I get that housing is a sensitive issue. You don't want people out in the street. I I get but I mean it's ridiculous >> and people take advantage of that fact >> because my mom owned a property and this happened and she didn't have money to deal with all this stuff and then then what the tenant will do is like let stuff degrade and then they'll complain that the habit habitability of the property is bad and they're not paying rent but you still got to fix it. I mean she only had that one property. She didn't have money. She just left her job.
She couldn't even pay to fix the stuff.
It was a horrible situation. I had to come in and solve it for her. But I mean, this idea that landlords are some evil people that are like >> And it's still >> taking advantage.
>> It's still like that in the States.
>> It's horrible. And basically, I wouldn't invest in blue states.
>> What? Blue states. Democratic.
Democratic states.
>> Yeah. Because they're just crazy with the laws.
>> Yeah. What's the Republican saying? When they see a rainbow, they shoot it until it's only red, white, and blue.
>> And then they'll shoot it even more till it's just white.
>> Yeah. Yeah. You know, >> you you had something an experience in Kenya cuz even here, unless you have an ironclad like uh lease agreement or rent agreement, oh, dude, people will stay and they won't they'll pay you rent.
They'll still send you rent. And they'll go to court and be like, we're still paying rent even though you're telling them, hey, look, we don't want you as a tenant. Let's say you have like five tenants. Four tenants are complaining about one dude and it's a business. They the place is dirty. They keep doing these things. You don't want them. So you're like, "All right, look, you have two months of deposit. Stay on that and then you can leave.
>> They'll stay there till the last day.
File on court." Ah, now what do you do?
You want them gone. You're in court. You have to go appeal. They're going to be like, "We're good tenants. We pay on time." Even though you can show, hey, you don't n you have to wait months and months. Then even when the court agrees with you, you have to go through something else to now get them evicted.
Court has agreed. Ah, they're bad tenants. they should go ah now get them evicted. All this time they are staying you are paying electricity you have to deal with them other tenants are complaining hey we don't want this guy here it's not like >> so how do you protect yourself whether it's in Kenya or in the US from this happening >> ironclad rent agreement >> what does what does that look like do you have to put certain clauses where we'll whoop your ass if you don't pay us first month >> I'm going to give a personal example but we can't put it in that's fine >> you can just we'll we'll Ricky will bleep the name so just >> no like the whole example I can give you a full example we're going through right now It has to benefit the viewers. So, >> okay, I'll explain it to you.
>> Okay, you're giving us a fake story that hasn't happened.
>> So, there's a there's a again same thing. You have a tenant >> Yeah.
>> who was allowed in without signing the lease. This is a mistake that someone made someone higher up.
>> Because someone has too big a heart and is like, "No, let's help them. Let them in without a lease."
>> Don't ever help tenants.
>> Yes. All the other tenants. You do not touch the store until you sign a lease.
But this one was allowed in. M >> now they're allowing other people into the store and doing things which you're not supposed to do. They're allowing people to store things. They are dirting up the store. Other tenants are complaining, hey look, we can't have a place of business where this guy just is putting things in the hallway, right? So you go and you talk to them. They don't change. You talk to them again. They don't change. You're like, fine. We're going to file for eviction. You take So you tell them, hey, look, you're going to have to leave. Last day they file in court. Court now you can't do you can't kick them out while you're in court.
There's no you can do nothing to them.
And then you're going to tell them, hey, look, we don't want you, etc., etc. You have to wait through the whole court process. Then the first court agrees.
Then they file again. Then there's a stay. You have to wait again. All this time they're sending you rent. You send it back. You tell them don't you take it back. You So you're going 1 2 3 4 5 months without accepting rent. Cuz if you accept, the court is going to be but they're paying rent. You are getting the money. Why you want to remove them?
>> Then court agrees higher. They should go. Now you file for eviction. Another court ruling. You have to wait. You have to get >> Jesus. How? There's a uh council you have to agree to. They have to agree that they can be evicted. Now they can be removed and they're given time to leave. N you fix up all the issues. You pay for electricity.
It's not easy.
>> What's the timeline on that?
>> Uh what month are we in now?
>> Oh, months. We're in May. This has been going on since I think November.
>> Oh man.
>> And it's just now getting to the final segments cuz they'll find anything.
>> So my my question is what do we put on the lease agreement? Is there something that you can do to protect yourself in the states or in Kenya? And this question is >> the states will not help you because there's case law that will override your lease >> here. You can I believe you can have if you have an ironclad lease then you can go through it because we've had a tenant where you had to go through um we had to go through court and we were allowed to send auctioneers to collect the rent that was owed. But this guy found out and he just dipped with everything the day.
>> So maybe maybe it makes sense. There are companies that essentially manage the hiring and renting and taking the rent and lease agreements and they take a certain percentage of that. I think they're drilling outside actually. No, that's here.
Can you hear that? No, no, no. It's okay now.
I think it's fine. Ricky will do his magic and post. Ricky, make sure you watch the entire podcast. All right, even the boring bit as I was talking.
So, uh, Mo saying, are there people that can do that way? They tell you, we'll take 10% or 15%, we'll manage the A to Z aspect.
>> We have a our company does that.
>> Interesting.
>> But, but like in New Jersey, it's a blue state. It has very strong tenant rights.
So, there's not a lot that we can do. And firsttime owners, it's hard to explain to them like >> we this is how like if they stop paying sometimes it's better off to pay them the leave than it is to drag it out.
>> Yeah.
>> So, >> but in a red state though >> like in Texas, yeah, 30 days file for eviction, they're out of here. Yeah.
>> Is Texas a good place to would you be aware of?
>> Yeah, Texas is good.
>> Are the property markets now going through the roof though? because a lot of companies are moving out from LA to set up in Texas because of the tax laws.
>> Awesome. The the the issue with Texas is that they actually allow you to build easily. So, they're actually keeping up with the demand >> by supply.
>> In a lot of other states like California, um you're going to need like act of Congress, the presidential approval to build something. So, it's impossible to build it. So everyone complains about affordable housing but they make it impossible to build a house >> and LA is expensive >> and actually you know you see here in Nairobi with all the apartment buildings that is the solution to housing affordability is building more units >> because it's cheaper to build a 100 units vertical in one structure than a 100 single family houses because our zoning well I'm on my land development and zoning board in my own. So, you know, I'm pretty well verssed in in planning and zoning.
>> This is back in New Jersey.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And and so it's very unpopular in in the suburbs where I live to allow any of that. So, you need an acre to build a house. That's the minimum.
>> So, you would need a variance.
>> It's quite big. Okay.
>> So, how are you going to match the the supply with basically building an apartment building is illegal. you would need special approvals and variances from the landlord >> compared to Kenya where it's niceam and then that's what you get. So I I want to pinpoint that journey and what got you into Kenya at this point like when did you realize that you have to go beyond the US market? Was it just the tough nature of dealing with the property and just becoming impossible and during COVID?
>> Well, I've reached a point in life where I was at financial freedom, not making a whole bunch of money, right? But I didn't have to work a traditional job.
>> So then you, you know, when you solve for money, >> then you can think about other things in life.
>> That's awesome. you know, and so quality of life, having kids, where should you where do you want to raise kids? Um, you know, just I don't know where you want to be, the weather. Like, you know, during COVID, in the winter time in Jersey, it's dark at 400 p.m., no one's outside.
>> That was so weird for me.
>> It's depressing dealing with that. So, I've never been to the States, but UK has a similar >> weather pattern where during the winters at 4:00 the sun starts setting.
>> And for those people that have never been to Kenya, for us throughout the year at 6:30 sunset.
>> Yeah.
>> Doesn't change whether it rains or not.
It's it's it's it's the same thing. What do you think of the weather here?
>> It's amazing.
>> It is. Right.
>> June, July, August is a little cold.
>> Yeah. But for us, that cold is amazing because it breaks away from the heat. I I prefer the heat a little bit. Not Mombasa heat, but >> yeah, >> Nairobi heat.
>> Slightly warmer, right? It's bearable.
>> Now, >> cuz I came here with a sweater. I I don't want to wear a sweater.
>> And you're like, what's going on now? In terms of So, so you said financial independence was the main thing for you personally.
I think that's a that's a that's an important point as well is to get to that financial freedom where you're actually able to make a decision to move countries and focus on other avenues of life. That's actually something that I think we're all striving for >> right now. I think Rick is looking at me because he knows I'm saving up to buy that Rolex. Maybe it's not smart. Maybe put it in a property. I want one too, but I can't justify the I could do better things with it, you know?
>> I feel the same.
>> Yeah.
>> Don't do it, though.
>> Yeah. We don't even have a studio and we're [ __ ] buying Rolexes over here.
>> Do that. We're going to fight. I'm getting tired of sitting up and sitting down every day.
>> Rolex can help you though, you know. It it'll get you in a room sometimes or get you some respect from somebody.
>> But with the amount of fakes that are there these days in Kenya, I'm not even trusting it. We saw an Uber driver with the Rashad Mill.
And I was like, "Okay, he must be doing well."
>> So, Kenya, how did that market pop up to you?
>> Well, in high school, I dated a Kenyan lady.
>> Yes, I remember that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> Kikuyu lady and her family like took me in. So, you know, they chapati and all food and stuff.
>> So, I was introduced to the culture a little bit.
>> Yeah. So, I was going to go to Ghana, you know, because the whole black movement, George Floyd, Black Lives Matter, which kind of had a bit of an awakening. And then they were doing the year of return in Ghana. I was like, I should go to the continent. And then I was doing my research, YouTube, Google.
I was like, Acra is kind of expensive.
I'm thinking it should be a little bit cheaper. And then I ended up thinking about Kenya.
>> Yeah. And then I did my research and followed some people uh on YouTube and decided to come to Kenya.
>> Did you visit Ara before?
>> No.
>> Yeah. It's structurally the when you when you look at the structures in terms of the facilities and buildings, I think the architecture over this surprised me.
>> Okay.
>> The quality of builds especially when you compare public sector buildings, they've done a fantastic job. There's a there's an old vlog I did of me visiting Niger. Ricky, just remind me if we can track that.
>> But it was architecturally very impressive compared to even Nigeria. Um, but the pricing, dude, the pricing was for everything was through the roof. I think they went through an economic crisis. So the their currency as well, they defaulted on payments. So a cappuccino, literally at a standard hotel, you're paying a,000 shillings worth, right? in a hotel.
>> West Africa's too expensive.
>> It's a bit too expensive. So you >> for what you get.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. But in terms of culture, I will say Ghana, the people >> for me is even better than Nigeria, dude. The people are super friendly.
>> It depends on what you want. If you like music and like [ __ ] chaos and like partying and clubbing and Yeah, then Nigeria is for you. If you're a bit more calm, you like reading books in the afternoon, having a nice coffee.
>> That's why I came to Kenya, too, because uh Kenya seems East Africa in general seems much more laidback.
>> It is.
>> West Africa seems a bit faster.
>> It's the population as well. I mean, Nigeria is 200 plus million people and everyone's just trying to make money.
>> Here, Kenya is about 60 million people.
Actually, what are we 55 40 to somewhere along that line >> is getting faster. It is getting more chaotic. It's resembling what I would see happening in London. And the first time I went there, it was a sensory experience, but everyone's just moving.
Everyone's just moving. No one has time to sit and chill. Like if you if you just go outside over here, you'll see a Kenyan guy just chilling.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. So New Jersey was fast like that.
>> New Jersey is pretty fast. Yeah.
>> Okay. Okay. So, so coming to Nairobi, I think other Africans coming to Nairobi feel like or if you're from Mombasa and you come to my Nairobi, you're like, "What is this? Everything's fast." But for me, it's slower.
>> Okay. Yeah.
>> Okay. So, so when you >> cuz like you go to a restaurant, there's like 20 people working there, but they're all just chilling.
>> So, I'll give you an inside tip as to what those restaurants are used for.
They used to clean money, basically, >> right? They are the most successful restaurants in East and Central Africa.
>> We know We know a gentleman >> who has a no-name restaurant in the middle of an industrial park.
I think he's doing maybe $3 million of revenue a month.
>> Yeah. And he only has like three items on the menu, of which two are not available either day. But now you get to Kenya. Do you know anyone over here? Not one person, >> dude.
>> Yeah.
>> So, how was that feeling?
>> But I felt like I it was felt so normal.
That was the other thing. I didn't feel very touristy.
>> Okay.
>> Like I went to I they told me it was Kilimani, but I was staying on Gong Road.
>> They got you there >> kind of near Tantia right now. And it wasn't there when I was, you know.
>> They do that. They say Westland's area, but it's not Westlands. It's somewhere else. Yes. But you know uh go to Junction Mall, you know, go to Java, do my thing, go to the gym.
>> Which gym do you go to? Smart gyms.
>> Well, now yeah, whatever is a junction.
>> But now I use the apartment one. But um just it felt so good. And it sounds corny, but the sun will improve your mood.
>> It will. It will. It will.
>> It's a real thing.
>> It is.
>> So winter time in Jersey is dark. It's cold. Now I'm here sunshine and you know it's it's a good I don't know even that simple thing is just >> but at the time did you decide that when you come to Kenya you're planning on living here or did you come as a tourist?
>> I came for a month to see what was going on >> and within that month you realized that Kenya is where you want to build the businesses.
>> No, not really a first trip. Uh and I didn't do any content or anything. I was just >> just chilling.
>> Yeah, basically just chilling. I ended up buying a apartment off plan in Lavington >> the first trip.
>> I was like I was like let's just see if we get scammed. I bought it with a friend so we split the cost.
>> Okay. Okay. Okay.
>> You know and it was 6 million for a one bed. So okay let's see what happens.
>> And how did that turn out then? The construction expectations the quality.
>> Uh for what it is it's okay >> but I know a lot more now. So I probably could have done better.
>> Okay.
>> Also, you know, the thing about me is I I accept things for how they are. So I don't come here with like a US mindset of expecting things to run and be the way that I think they should be.
Although I do see where things could be more efficient. And so when I can apply myself to those, I'll try to do that.
But I don't get upset when things don't work exactly as I'm used to. So, >> of course, the quality is not as good as us, right? But >> for the market here, it's been renting the whole time.
>> The builds are also different, right?
Like in in the US, when you watch these hurricane movies, the houses get blown away quite easily.
>> Well, because we use wood um wood framing instead of concrete.
>> Would you ever deploy that in Kenya or would it just not work?
>> No, concrete is better. Concrete is better.
>> Um the reason for the wood I think is because labor cost is high right. So >> or not even laborers here what they're getting 800 showings a day.
>> Yes. If that 800 is high I thought it was like 500 >> could be five. It's less than a thousand >> aund with some experience maybe 1300 >> in the US you're paying 12k a day you know >> shillings you know. So, $100 about.
>> So, wood framing you could you could frame up a house real quite easily.
>> So, the wood's more expensive, but the speed is cheaper. So, that's why we end up building that way.
>> Okay. And >> but if I built here, I would use concrete.
>> Concrete.
>> But my goodness, um the the cinder blocks or the rocks or whatever they're using are scary to me.
>> Really?
>> Yeah. And then and then I feel like there's not enough cement in the mortar.
Like when I look at the mortar work of the blocks, >> I don't like it.
>> Okay, tell me more about that. I don't understand that.
>> We need some pictures.
>> I I I don't I don't understand that.
Maybe you guys can frame it for me cuz I'm not into properties.
>> So when when you mix concrete, you have to have the cement, you have to have water, and then there's the binding agent. I forget what it's called.
>> Yeah. Gravel, sand, aggregate. Yeah.
>> But then there was also something else.
I don't they add something else. Now the thing is >> cement >> with the when you're making concrete cement. There's the cement, water, you have to add rock and stuff, and then there's there's something else you have to add.
>> Okay, fair enough.
>> Yeah, it's a couple ingredients.
>> So, they [ __ ] up the ratio.
>> You'll have a guy >> and they [ __ ] up the ratio to save cost.
>> Not to save cost. I'll be honest, it's because they don't measure. They don't know.
>> I was I was at a site yesterday and he said, "It's two wheelbarrows full of sand and one bag of concrete."
Okay, but how are you filling up the wheelbarrow? Does it have a line? Like where are you filling it up to? So it's it's not accurate.
>> Ah, they use they use guesstimation or basically we just hope and pray it's right.
>> And then the blocks themselves are just like they're not the same, >> you know, when when you're just laying actually I see what you mean because the margin of error with one wheelbarrow is this maybe this much. But if you scale it across an entire building, then it gets >> it has weak points. And then and then again the the blocks are not the same.
So now you have now the mortar is even more important because the mortar is filling in the gaps where the the the block is uneven.
And so the taller the block building that you're building, I'd be very concerned over two stories or so. Like the mortar is all messy. They don't clean it, you know? I could get cuz I you know I know how to do a lot of this type of work >> so I pay a lot of attention to like how they're doing it.
>> So if I'm going to invest in a property I'm going to do it through him because you seeing this stuff you I mean this stuff I wouldn't be really aware of. You would just go and see a property and say oh it's got a [ __ ] gym let's buy it.
>> This is the problem here because because then they coat over the block so you can't see what's you wouldn't know.
>> I don't shut them out. We can bleep their names, but are there any properties we can bleep their names out that you've seen recently that you're like, don't [ __ ] buy there.
>> Well, it's not really from looking at the construction. It's just how they operate their professionalism, their sales office. Where is the sales office?
Is their sales office in a junkyard? Do their salespeople know what they're talking about? Yeah.
>> Like, what do the renders look like? Do they did they make them in Photoshop or, you know, did they invest in those?
Yeah. But even at least they did that.
Some of these are are horrible. where's the floor plans and then what's their contract look like?
>> So that's kind of how I tell if they're good or not, right? Because if if they act professionally, I feel a little bit better about it.
>> So is there any other thing that you've seen in Kenya within the construction industry that you also question why you doing it this way?
>> See, I actually understand why you know because where do you get cinder blocks from here? Proper cinder blocks. And then if it it does work how they're doing it, but >> I think that's why sometimes you have the building collapses and issues because they're just used to doing it a certain way.
>> Yeah.
>> Um >> yeah, I don't know.
>> Okay. So, >> so then what what got you to fully commit to come to Kenya now? You bought that first property. You've been here for a month. What happens next?
>> So then the second trip, >> this was postcoid 2024.
>> 2024.
>> Okay. So 2024. Yeah.
um when I came back. So I came for four weeks and then the second time the next year I came back six weeks and um I posted a YouTube video about just touring through the property and it started doing good. Um and then I started doing more because that's just naturally interesting. I wasn't really planning on doing any of this stuff and you know I own a real estate brokerage in the US so that's kind of how I was marketing myself in the US as well. Um but here it just started scaling pretty big and then people I realized that western people are used to systems working a certain way and they're very vulnerable to the chaos of how things work here with the real estate agents, the developers.
It's it's you got to know what you're doing or I mean you can be taken advantage of very easily. So the need for someone to help them manifest it through the content. So I never really planned on doing any of this. It just happened cuz really I was like semi-retired. That's where I came to chill.
>> Chill. Yeah.
>> And now we have a whole real estate company. We're helping people buy uh and sell.
>> And so maybe we could talk about that.
We could talk about that you launching that real estate company because that's interesting.
Um, sorry I I had the name down. There was >> Amasi. Yeah. Are you doing that solo?
>> We have two employees and I have some partners locally for help on certain things that I can't navigate.
>> And I see you normally do calls with a lot of uh folks that join in whoever ask questions on Zoom and so on and so forth.
>> Yeah. Yeah, we do a live people ask questions. We have lawyers come on. I'd love to find some financing people because we have a lot of Kenyans on there as well. I know KMRC has this program for first-time buyers or something.
>> Yeah, in fact, that's that's that's one of the things I noted down. I was just speaking to my banker um James, Charlotte James at DTB, he sent me this um KMRC, which is the Kenya Mortgage Refinance Company. Okay. So, KMRC is a non-deposit taking financial institution under the supervision of the Central Bank of Kenya. So, the company was incorporated 2018 actually. I thought it was something recent >> with the single purpose of providing long-term funds to primary mortgage lenders, banks and so to increase the availability blah blah blah. So, what happens is they can basically give you an incorporation with the housing uh is it levi or levy? Housing levy. levy, housing levy. So for example, if you want to buy a property that's 15 million, they can give you a maximum loan of 10.5 million.
>> Um, so loan to value 80% term max 25 years. Interest rate they will give you 9% which is pretty incredible for what we're dealing with >> for 10 years and below. 9.75% above 10 years. So the maximum property of the value can be 15 million and it's accessible at any bank. 10 years is a little tough but okay.
>> Yeah. So what they do is so 9% for 10 years and then you do 20 years.
>> Oh it's advertised at 20.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Oh okay. Okay.
>> Yeah. So you can do 20 max is 25 years and so but maximum property is 15 million.
>> So the value and it has to be purely residential.
>> So they do that essentially to help with the with the structures. I want to ask you a bit more about the investment in ter. So, let's say there's someone from the US coming into Kenya and they want to know what to look out for. What would be your guide so they don't go wrong?
>> Honestly, I think it's going to be hard for you to come here and just figure it out yourself.
>> Yeah.
>> Um I'm I'm number one a risk taker and I've been in real estate since 2011, so it's a little bit easier for me. Um watch out. Don't believe anyone. Don't believe anything that you can't verify yourself.
>> Yeah.
>> Um >> trust but verify.
>> Don't trust at all to be honest. I'm sorry. You can't um >> Yeah. Don't believe in it. Yeah. I mean, you just got to come.
>> You need skill. I like honestly I don't really think people I think it's tough.
>> Okay.
>> I think they should be very careful. I before I would say make sure you have a good agent that can educate you about the area. But >> so someone like Ryan, >> the agency situation is >> hazardous because agents have different agreements with different developers.
>> They'll push you to buy certain things.
You don't know what's going on under the scenes if you don't know the areas like and one thing like people ask, "Oh, where should I buy?" And someone will say Westlands. Well, the part of Westlands matters, right? like Raptor Road, school lane, ring road area, like lower upper side.
>> What for you is prime location in Westlands?
>> I like by Westgate >> basically. Um if you're if you're pure investing, I I see that as the central like Manhattan area, right? So that I think that's the best section to to buy.
>> Proximity to malls, there's there's there's >> there's businesses, malls, there's everything to do right there. And many tourists or people visiting are scared to go anywhere other than Westlands.
Okay.
>> And so that's the most like relatable place for someone to land and to start doing stuff in Kenya. I think >> in terms of American investing in Kenya, is there any special certificates or regulations or anything you need to have like you need residency over here?
>> Okay. So that's why again it's a little hazardous because do you form a company? Do you use a trust? Do you buy in your own name? Now you have to figure out a way to get K pin or the SASA.
Um it just depends. Um and then it depends on the lawyers and the lawyer situations here is crazy. I've talked to 10 different lawyers. They'll give you 10 different answers on how you should go about doing things. who was giving you the right information, you know, and then you know there's facilitators that can get stuff done that maybe someone else can't get done.
Is it legal? Is it 100% legal? Is it 75% legal? You you see it's just like very gray.
>> Okay.
>> And to see Westerners aren't used to gray.
>> Yeah. It's either this or that. So you can't just Google this information because if you go on chatbt you Google the what's written and how things are executed are very differently and then you have the human factor in between that part >> which you you can't really ask GPD to give you a percentile on how effective that is because that depends on so many different things but did you find good lawyers then to work with?
Um, yes, but >> for me it's okay like again >> like if you don't mind me asking. So I mean I've dealt with Bowman's Coulson Harney. I'm not sure if you're dealing with them.
>> They're slightly more pricey based out of South Africa but we we deal with them for our data center aspects. There's >> uh Anjarwala and Kana.
>> Mhm.
>> But are these big corporates like will they deal with individuals?
>> Yes, of course.
>> Oh yeah. I don't know.
>> I can connect you with them. So please >> like if you're just going to this nonons come and sons advocacy they'll [ __ ] you over.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean not to say some of them are good some of them are legit >> but when it comes to dealing with properties um you need guys who have very well established firms and have been in the market >> absolutely >> and have real estate projects tied to them. So that being said >> I do that actually knows a couple of guys in real estate quite heavily and have law firms specifically dealing with that. So if you want I can just complete that connection.
>> Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
>> Um, so I'm I'm a bookmark that in terms of I want to walk this path with you because I want to invest in property, right?
>> Okay.
>> And it's something that I've been very keen on. Um, in fact, that's why I asked the um the bank to sort of try and see what we could do to facilitate this. One of the things I heard was the best place to look out for cheap properties is to go to all the local banks because what happens is there are some certain properties that have um applicants that couldn't pay the fees so they've laped. So what happens is if there's a 10 million bob loan that was taken on a property maybe that gentleman or lady paid 5 million but they defaulted >> so the bank will sell it to you for the 5 million.
>> Five. Yeah. Like a foreclosure.
Actually, there's an American guy here that did commercial real estate >> named Derek that I met.
>> Okay.
>> And uh he's been good. There's there's auctions for that stuff.
>> Yes.
>> He's been into that. I I was unaware, but it's quite interesting.
>> It's quite interesting. You you have to spend a bit of time. You have to develop a relationship with the bank as well because there's a human factor. But most of the banks like KCB um actually I would start with the smaller banks where you can form a relationship and small to medium DTB is a good good bet. INM is very good. We know someone we can connect you with.
>> Um Mansour can sort sort Ryan out right.
I think it's worth actually just visiting. You see the thing is also in Kenya the human relationship aspect >> can really open up doors for you. But anyway, back to my question. So, let's start with let's say I want to spend 10 to 15 million um within a property within this Westlands area. I approach you. How would we go about and look at it? Do you have properties in mind that we would work together with?
>> Yeah. So, I basically have a list of properties in Westlands that I think are good. I, you know, I don't know if we're name dropping places, but >> you can name drop whatever you want.
Personally, I like the Diplomat because it's on Pony Road next to It's literally next to Westgate.
>> The Diplomat.
>> It has a 52 square meter.
>> They call it a one-bedroom. It's really a studio. Don't believe what people tell you. Um, >> but starts at 6M. I think it's a great rental unit. And then they have even a 43 square meter that starts at 5M.
>> Now, the availability is low. So, every day we're trying to check for units that pop back up for availability. But honestly, at their the entry price, I think it's the best investment. And they're not paying me to say that, but that's just my opinion.
>> And this is after you viewed the construction and saw the way they're doing things.
>> I I booked two units from that developer before the groundbreaking because that's when they give you the most discounts.
>> Interesting.
>> So, you can get your best entry price, you can get the best floor, which I think you talk about all the development. And I think having the better view, the better facing angle of the property, you know, a higher generally higher floor >> um is a competitive advantage because you can't recreate that even all the units are the same, but I have a better floor. So I should be able to rent a little bit easier than if you have the first floor, right?
>> Okay. Okay. And so in terms of rent, when it comes to dealing with this, do you let's say the property gets built, we buy it out, do you does your company helps?
>> Not yet. We that's something that we want to tackle in the next two years or so.
>> Okay.
>> There I don't think there's good property management players. You I mean you're kind of in the industry as well so maybe you're more aware.
>> Um but again I don't really trust like I I've tried to work with people and this is why I'm very not trusting just because the execution is bad you know mediocre at best maybe and then the integrity is the other issue right? So if people find a way to get some extra money out of your pocket or something that you're not aware of, they're going to take it.
>> So you got to be pretty careful. So that I one of my thesises here is that the development has far outpaced all the support services. So property management, waste collection, this people are talking about the sewer, water, power, all that stuff is behind the speed of the development. So I think that's a big risk.
>> Okay. So if if I were to come up and say I want to work with this, we want to go through the bank, how how would we engage then like from start to finish?
>> Yeah. So we would do a consultation and figure out what your goals are. or you're thinking to do you want to be more active with the investment aka like Airbnb or do you want to go you know long-term unfernished a little bit more stable cuz you know that Westland's market the diplomat project I'm talking about is more suited Airbnb right >> so that's not for everybody >> so maybe you want to do something maybe even in Killeshwa where you're just going to have like a family or something that's probably going to stay renting there for a longer period of time um so it depends on your goals And then usually we kind of have our favorite developers that you know I think the risk is a little bit lower. I don't think it's zero as far as >> building issues management later the building quality at the end all that kind of stuff but we have some of our favorite properties whether it's Westlands Keshwa Kilimmani so you know and then you know a lot of our people are are not from here so what I like to do with clients is actually not look at property at first and just take them around Nairobi so that they can get some context because real estate is location, right? So, how can you invest in real estate? You don't really understand the difference between Motio Road where JW Marriott is and Ring Road where um Westgate and >> Gong Road and Kiliman.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Like what what does that mean? I live on Gong Road. Like what does that mean to someone? Like what's the context of that? Um, I think that's important to to invest like to understand that. So, I I focus on educating people so that they really I don't I just want you to make the best decision. So, I want to arm you with the information. I don't really >> I really don't care what you buy or what what you end up doing. I just want you to have the information and then be able to make the best decision. Yeah.
Especially someone like you that's a bit more sophisticated or at least that's my perception, right? Like Yeah. I I think >> we're going to burn the whole [ __ ] world.
>> I I I think like I think you would know what's best for you. I just want you to have the information. So, you know, this developer, >> it's their first time in Kenya. They claim that they've done all these developments in China.
>> When they tell you that, don't believe them. Um that's kind of how I do it, you know. I'm like, look, I don't know about that information, you know, because the salespeople tell you anything. So, >> yeah. by the way and car sales guys and property salespeople do not you can trust them as far as you can [ __ ] throw them right trust me in this town is maybe it's a global thing but let's say for me personally I want to I want what you have right with the Rolex is that you have enough properties paying you enough rent scale >> problem is though mortgage rates are quite high right interest rates over here are not >> at the same levels you were paying yeah >> would Would that be possible with what you see over here from a return on investment in the Kenyan market given everything we've seen in terms?
>> I think it's more possible here. Um, we'd have to work the numbers. So, I' I'd ask your loan guy to come up with a sample if you bought that property for 6 million, right? What's the mortgage look like? And then what's the rent look like? And is the margin enough where you're actually making money?
>> So, I could work with you then to basically then >> pitch this story and say, "Okay, fine. I want to by the end of 10 years have at least five properties or or six properties >> paying me a certain amount of rent.
>> Yeah. and Airbnb. I always get hesitant because in Airbnb in the Kenyan culture, if you don't mind me saying, we the the men and women have transitioned from lowcost motel to Airbnbs um for their lunch hookups because what happens is when you go to a motel, >> you run into your dad and you're like, "What are you doing here?" And so it's a place where with Airbnbs there's no one, >> you know? Mhm.
>> I've been I I mean I'm guilty of that.
I'm sure these gentlemen are guilty of that.
>> Don't tell them.
>> Right. So So it's Airbnb sort of seen as that. But >> yeah, >> there's a surplus of Airbnbs.
>> I agree. Um in the US, we had a big Airbnb bubble. There were even people renting a property and then turning it into an Airbnb. I see that happening here.
>> Um where you don't even own it. You're just renting it and taking the arbitrage. I think all that goes away.
there'll be a bubble with Airbnb. Um, people will get hurt from doing that. I think the good operators will be okay with the best units. Um, that's why location is important because some of these projects that have really good amenities and are set up for that will be doing well. Now, the problem with people partying and and stuff like that can be mitigated if you require them to rent for a week minimum, two weeks.
There's ways to navigate that, but also uh I'm not a big Airbnb guy. Um I'd rather actually get less ROI and have less phone calls or issues. Um I talked about the Diplomat because that is the one we're doing Airbnb, but I'd like to I'm also testing. So I I haven't my other property is unfurnished rental one-bedroom lavendon, you know. So I'm kind of mixing it up because we talked about this offline.
There's a lack of data.
>> Yeah.
>> So I'm kind of running an experiment like how's my Airbnb going to run?
>> You know, what what's the actual numbers on that?
>> So from from an external perspective, you mentioned that location next to Westgate. Are there any other residential areas where you feel or properties this is the best bet for your investment?
>> I think if you have the budget that particular part of Westlands is the best.
>> I I don't know why you would go anywhere else. Now if you have less budget or you have a different strategy then there's alternatives. But I look at Nairobi, obviously not as a onetoone comparison, but just think New York City and then imagine New York City 50 years ago.
>> So imagine buying some Manhattan property 50 years ago in New York City.
>> [ __ ] I'd have to wait 50 years for a Rolex then.
>> No, no. Well, you know, it happens fast though, you know.
>> Okay, so what about Rafter? What do you think of Rafter? Because I've seen a It's a single road full of residential areas on the left and right and there's obviously tributaries at the bottom. But what's happening is you're getting these pop-up malls that are coming up, >> restaurants, more quality quality of your life improvement gyms and so on, jiu-jitsu clubs.
>> And it still doesn't have the traffic of Kilimani and Lavington and the craziness of the Westgate area because Westgate is very central that particular area. So there's a lot of inflow of traffic.
>> Yeah. Um I kind of look at it kind of like Killeshwa.
>> It's very similar in concept. I think um for investment I don't like the side of Wyaki way.
>> Why? Why not?
>> Because crossing Wyaki way during traffic is >> okay. So here's >> and most of the things that you want to do are on the other side. Now I know you're saying they're popping up here, >> but u like for me I stay in Kilimani. I still go to Westgator if I really want to like get out and do something.
>> Everything is on that side of the highway.
>> Yeah.
>> So, Westlands, >> but this is a nice place to live on this side.
>> Actually, maybe Ricky, you could for the Americans watching hopefully like the millions of them. Um, we could put up a map showing Moyaki Way and then you say this is the left where Rafter Road is and this is the right where Brookside and everything is. So, >> it's opposite. So, in order to cross it seems easy. M could take 20 minutes.
>> 20 minutes. Do you use boders, by the way?
>> No. No. No.
>> Thank you. Don't risk that [ __ ] >> This is an American war veteran who's telling you not to use boders, >> right? He's been through this [ __ ] mortars and stuff, and he's told me not to do it.
>> I would I would be really sad if like my life story was that like >> I got horrifically injured on a boda after everything I've done, you know?
Like, but it's dumb. I would just be upset.
>> There's too much risk involved in that.
I mean driving here in general I mean honestly is >> it's a bit chaotic right? Is that my phone or sorry um in terms of what about commercial properties? Have you have you thought about that?
>> I don't know anything about commercial to be honest.
>> That's something >> I don't think commercial's good generally because the internet the internet.
>> What do you mean?
you have global and stuff like and like the internet's destroying office space like work from home. I don't know. I don't I don't like the future narrative of a lot of commercial. I think commercial works for destination like things to do.
>> Yes, actually that's that's true because the way the world is functioning postco is to keep you comfortable at home >> like take out takeout postco especially in Kenya. I'm not sure if those guys I remember Uber Eats and Glover weren't really big and maybe we'd have chicken in like in the entire app and right now you don't need to leave home.
Everything's delivered to you from the supermarket. It's becoming basically what the states has those amenities to deal with.
>> Yeah. All our malls died, you know, and and malls are super big here. Um we'll see what happens in the future because there is a bigger mall culture, but I would be concerned about that. Speaking of which, the Nike store has opened up.
I'm 100% assuming you've gone to it.
>> I'm wait. It's open today.
>> Oh, it's today.
>> I don't know when it's opening. I've seen the opening. But it's the same thing with Adidas. It's not actually Adidas. It's just third parties who buy like you know the Apple stores in Kenya.
None of them are Apple stores.
>> Those are not. Yeah.
>> Same with Adidas. None of them are Adidas. They literally the same thing I do. They wait for end of season sale.
They buy them in bulk, bring them here, and then sell them for up market price.
>> I was in West. It wasn't >> It's ridiculous. They didn't have but they didn't have like the Adid like the stuff that I was looking for.
>> It's it's >> so it's not a real Nike store.
>> So like this one I bought this end of season sale. This was $18. I shipped it in.
>> Well that's good.
>> Yeah. So they literally wait for end of season sale. You can buy it from Adidas eBay is where it usually is. Then they bring it in via freight. So it's like six 8 weeks and then they stock it here and because we don't have season changes. You can buy summer things in December and then they just keep them and you see a t-shirt for $8,000 and you're like, I saw that on eBay like 2 months ago for $9.
>> By the way, if you want stuff shipped from the States, just don't ask how it arrives here at a very cheap rate.
>> Really? I got to talk to you guys about that cuz I've never done that. How about vehicles? Can you get some vehicles?
>> That one you talk to my brother and even that one is >> I've got some people in South Sudan. The problem is you have to be have a South Sudan number plate >> and left hand drive. Oh, >> he is from America. So, >> that would be worse than writing a border in Kenya.
>> But overall, your impression of Kenya?
Um, is this your new home now? Are you going to settle here or we going to see you moving to Thailand, investing properties there in like a year?
>> No, I'm I'm not going to Thai I'll visit Thailand, but um I think I always wanted to be able to travel and control your weather and environment. So definitely a home here, but I I I still like the US.
I, you know, I I'm not one of the people that down the US like that. Yeah.
>> So I I like going back and forth. So >> Okay. Okay. Okay. So I mean the thing is >> I do want to go to Ethiopia and Rwanda.
>> Rwanda's rarely I haven't been to Ethiopia, but from what I hear it's within Addis. They've rarely developed it. I mean the carrier Ethopia Airways is basically the African carrier right now. It was Kenya Airways.
>> Unfortunately, it's no longer Kenya Airways. Ethopia is really good. That's a place I want to go. Um for bachelor parties, apparently it's become very popular. So I wonder why it must be the coffee. Um Kegali fantastic. Very slow.
You find Kenya slow? That is snail space. But incredibly disciplined. Like, have you ever seen a border stop at traffic?
>> No. No.
>> Exactly. Kali, they're scared shitless.
>> You know what's so I think that's an interesting thing about Kenya is that the chaos allows for opportunity though.
And so Ethiopia is much more organized from my understanding. But there's lots of Ethiopians coming here to invest.
There's a lot of there's a lot of South Sudan coming here. There's lots of everyone's coming here. So think about Kenya as a gateway hub because if you look at regionally South Sudan lot of oil money >> lot of corruption they funnel everything through Kenya because of our hub of Mombasa >> but also if you are rich in these areas you're going to have a better lifestyle if you stay in Kenya.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. We've got plastic surgeons now and all that stuff that works BBL. So it's all coming over here.
um especially central Africa, everything is routed through East Africa as well.
>> So Kenya is essentially an economy holder for everyone in the region.
>> Yeah.
>> So you do see that surplus pouring in over here.
>> Also it's a businessfriendly environment >> very >> compared to everyone else.
>> Compared to everyone else it's because we also have a lot more experts with the UN and all the world agencies that are setting up over here.
I I'm a novice with this so they may kill me but I feel like Kenya's independence movement and core is much different than many of the other African countries. So Tanzania had a communist movement. Yeah.
Uganda same thing. Socialism. Uh Kenya didn't have from my understanding the same type of thing. And actually now you see the issues with South Africa. They never reconciled the land issues.
>> Yeah. They didn't. Now, people may complain about the land schemes here in Kenya, how people ended up with lots of land, but it was a better solution than it's a better situation than a lot of these other countries that are struggling with some of these issues.
And so, I think that core um it's very more entrepreneurial. It's very much more open to investment. um you know so that that's kind of my perspective from from my level of understanding of history here. Um but I think that's a very special thing about Kenya specifically >> and I agree with you in terms of the business environment and trying to generally make a business work and a career work from professional perspective because of those reasons Kenya is very much open to well you can start a business and you can propel basically and that's why there's a lot of American investment here this European Asia Pacific if you look at Asia Pacific investment as well it's through the roof it Um, I just want to as as we wind things down, Ryan, on your business specifically, do you have like gettogethers? Do you have like places where one of people want to reach out and communicate directly with you?
What's the best way?
>> That's a good question.
Um, we got to work on that. We need to do a Discord. We do have a WhatsApp group.
Um, but yeah, you just got to reach out to me directly for now or on YouTube or comment or we'll put a group together.
We've only been operating for six weeks.
So, >> really?
>> Yeah. Yeah. As an official company, we've been operating.
>> The interview you did with that company, uh, >> with Boris?
>> Yeah.
>> No, I I was just independent. Yeah.
>> How did they get in touch with you? Cuz, by the way, their production work was excellent. It's >> does good stuff.
>> So, they >> or Web Nation.
>> Web Nation. Web Nation.
>> Yeah. Yeah. People reach out to me.
>> That's amazing, man. So, we'll put all your Actually, let's let's let's just Is there anything else you want to talk about?
>> No, I'm good.
>> Awesome. Awesome. So, one, two, three.
So, what we'll do is we'll link all your details, Ryan, in the description. Um, I think what we should do is we should do like a meet and greet, especially around your property business for locals, maybe for expats, because a lot of people that I'm speaking to >> don't know how to go about it, right?
Even the Kenyans locally here, we sort of confused. What I do want and maybe it's something you'd want to include is investing in properties beyond Nairobi or beyond the confines of Westlands like Kitangel has really popped up recently.
>> Yeah, >> I'm not sure if you've heard of that those outskirts places but the development is growing so significantly that >> in the next five years >> the returns as well.
>> Yeah, I agree. Um, I think for for me, um, the bigger developers are here. They're a little bit easier to work with. I think when you get down to the outskirts areas, you really have to be pretty well integrated and connected.
So, I'm more connected in Nairobi, but I'm working on getting outside more.
>> Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. So, what I'll do is I'll connect you with the lawyers as well. Speak to that. We'll get you sorted out. Jensen, any questions for Ryan?
Are you coming back for another podcast?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Anytime. This was fun.
>> More more conspiracies, right?
>> Yeah. Well, >> no, I mean, I'm with you on the conspiracy thing. He's been there. He said he sees nothing. So, >> but for for gaming, right? Like, what else are you playing? Um >> um Age of Empire Age of Empires. Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> That's what's Age of Empires like the Sim the top down military.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, League of Legends AoE.
>> Do you play any campaign games?
>> Like what? Like single player stuff?
>> Yeah, >> I was playing Baldor's Gate because the ping problem.
>> But um >> Listen, your ping problem. We just What else are you playing? We'll just hook you up to South Africa.
>> Yeah, I I didn't even know. I didn't >> leave League, >> but No, I'll never leave League.
>> Okay, get us get >> I'm platinum. I I was platinum one last season.
>> I I have friends who have like 18,000 hours in League. I'll get you people who will make you rage.
>> I never rage. I never rage.
>> I'll get you people. I I just play my game. That's the best I can.
>> I think maybe because of the ping that's the best way to sort of dive into campaign games. The Witcher, Red Dead Redemption.
>> I like that stuff, but I go for it. I don't know.
>> Call of Duty.
>> I'm like competitive.
>> Competitive. Yeah. So, you have a PC?
You have a Steam Deck?
>> PC.
>> You build one here?
>> I just have a laptop. Gaming laptop, but it's sufficient. It's a PC, >> right? If it ever runs through the room.
>> Yeah, I don't have a a desktop.
>> If you want a desktop, what he's trying to say is he builds gaming PC.
>> I do need a better Well, I do I need monitors.
>> I got monitors >> for sure. They're expensive.
>> Ah, don't worry. I got you.
>> Oh, we'll talk.
>> I told you he knows people, man. How those guys were sneaking goods out of Afghanistan. See, even this thing I got this for him.
>> Yeah, >> even I brought this for him.
>> These TVs are like >> none of this [ __ ] price here.
>> Yeah, this is hard to get, too. And the cameras.
>> Cameras. We got so lucky do this.
They've gone up in price after the war.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. DJI stuff is up too. The drones and everything.
>> Yep. Right, J. Shall we wind things down?
>> Yeah.
>> Yes.
>> All right. Listen, my illegal distribution manufacturing producer.
He's talking to Ricky, by the way. He's looking at Ricky, not me. Yeah.
>> Guys, thank you so much. Um, I hope you learned a thing or two for this process.
I really did, and I appreciate you taking the time to come, brother.
>> A pleasure.
>> One of many. Uh, we'll link up. We'll put all your details in the description.
Thank you guys for those. Actually, we're launching membership as well.
We'll tell you more about that on the next episode. So, cheers.
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