The euphemism treadmill is a linguistic phenomenon where words that are not inherently negative become associated with hate or discrimination through repeated use by people with negative intentions, eventually causing them to fall off the treadmill and be replaced by new terms. This process is driven by the psychological impact words have on people, where certain terms trigger negative emotional responses that lead to their replacement over time.
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Coward, After Coward, After Coward - Oskar Quentin Debate Live No.087
Added:Good morning everybody. This is the Oscar Quinton show where I take debate calls with people on TikTok Live. We talk about politics or whatever I feel like talking about. Maybe we'll talk about the confirmation hearing of Todd Blanch which is happening today. I don't like that guy. I think he's a criminal.
I think Trump's a criminal and it's Todd Blanch's job to help Trump Trump not get caught for being a criminal. So, that's going to be on my mind today. Anyway, anyway, anyway, uh let's get the uh let's get the backup account in the corner so that when this account gets banned, people know where to watch the show.
Pop that in the request queue.
Accept, join, and mute. There we go.
All righty then. Do we already have somebody else in the queue? Is that what this extra plus one is for? Let's see.
Are we going to hit the ground running today? I hope so. I like it when the show hits the ground running. But there we do. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we absolutely do have some people in the request queue.
But when it fills up this quickly, it's also pretty likely to be trolls. So, we'll see if Mason.V V is a troll. If we're going to start the show with a really good conversation, I'd prefer that.
Hello. Oh no, they disconnected. H All right, we're going to talk to Jaden again. Hopefully.
>> Hopefully.
>> Good morning. How old are you?
>> I'm 18.
>> 18. What year were you born?
>> Uh 2007. August.
>> August.
>> Okay. You support Trump? Uh, yes I do.
>> Why is that?
>> Um, because he's anti-immigration and personally I believe that immigration >> I'm getting a really terrible ringing.
Do you have a Bluetooth device connected?
>> Uh, no. I heard that, too. So, I don't think it was >> It's coming from your line, that's for sure.
>> Do you still hear it?
>> No, but the auto bit poor. We can try.
Why? Why do you Okay, so you support Trump because he doesn't like immigration. Are you talking about immigration? I feel like immigration is like kind of like it's I feel like it's racist almost.
>> I don't think that's a sensible thing to say. How is how is immigration racist?
>> I feel like I feel like making illegal immigrants do cheap extremely cheap labor under minimum wage is racist.
>> So here's here's the problem I have with that type of concern about immigration.
The people who bring that talking point to the table are generally not people who defend labor rights. It's not politicians who support, you know, protecting labor rights for people who are in the country. It's not people who have any policies that suggest they care about >> you have labor rights if you're illegal.
>> Well, you have no well you have I mean you don't have good protections for those rights because the company like you still have certain rights but the but the companies that that hire you are are working under the table. They're working without oversight. That that's bad. That's a problem with illegal immigration. I agree. If you're so concerned for those people, if you think it's so bad that their labor conditions are so bad, why do you want them to to be deported? That's much worse.
Because I feel like the corporations because if they're if they're deported then the big corporations that like do all like the farm.
>> No, no. I just want to understand. I just want to understand >> because then they would have to hire Americans.
>> No, but No, no, no. A second ago, you sounded really concerned for the illegal immigrants. You told me you seemed like you thought it was unfair.
>> I I think it's unfair that the businesses don't have to hire American citizens.
>> Okay. Wait, wait, no. Stop. You've moved on to something completely different.
Your claim is that illegal immigration is racist because of the pra the labor practices that that happen with illegal immigrants. I pointed out that the people who are saying that also want them to be deported. You seem to be one of those people. So, but it seems to me like you're not at all concerned for them. So, why did you say that?
>> I'm not concerned for them. I'm concerned.
>> Why did Okay. Okay. So, if because you're not concerned for them, why did you tell me that you thought it was racist? That sounds like a concern for them.
>> It is. But you are doing you're doing the same thing that those people I was talking about are doing, which is that you're leveraging fake concern for them being mistreated when you actually don't care at all about them being being mistreated. You care about something.
>> Well, I do care because the big corporations get to keep extra cash and don't have to hire American citizens.
>> Okay. But you don't care for them, right?
>> Um, >> it's not because of them that you care that these labor practices are so bad. I think Americans are more important than Mexicans.
>> Why did you you I'm sorry. You think Americans are more important than Mexicans?
>> Yes.
>> Do you mean that generally?
>> What? Oh, no. Like in like for the American government, they should be putting American people first.
>> Okay. You're moving on to other things, but I just want to make like I'm just trying to understand why you brought up the word racism. You said it's racist for us to be giving them such bad labor practices. Why did you say that to me if it wasn't to virtue signal some [ __ ] about you caring for these people when you really don't?
>> Well, I do kind of care, but it's also I the reason I did I tell you I told you why I think it's racist is because there's so many like they don't get paid well at all. And you know, if they paid the illegal immigrants the same that they would pay an American citizen, then okay.
>> Well, right.
Wait, hold on. But that's what I want because I want to give most of them amnesty so that they have the same labor protections that you or I have and that will fix this problem of them being mistreated. That would be better. I think I I think I agree with you like they should be giving more like uh what are they called the work visas or whatever. They should be getting more of those but I don't think that they should be able to permanently live in the United States.
>> Okay. And I also don't support birthright citizenship.
>> You don't support the Constitution?
Uh, I don't support that singular part of the Constitution.
>> Right. But if you get to decide which singular part of the Constitution you don't like, you don't support the Constitution because if there was some other singular part of it that you didn't like, you also wouldn't support that part of it.
>> I don't support everything. I don't I personally don't like everything about the Constitution.
>> I don't either. I have real problems with some things that are in the Constitution. And I think we need a couple of amendments, but I recognize that it is more important that we follow the Constitution as a whole than that.
>> I feel like the president shouldn't have to follow all these stupid laws that >> Yeah. Ooh, hold on.
>> Whoa. You think that the president shouldn't have to follow all these stupid laws >> like about trying to get rid of birthright citizenship? You shouldn't have to bring that to the Supreme Court.
>> Okay, hold on.
>> Listen, listen. I know you're young and I really want you to listen to what you're saying. Do you think that if I elected a president who you didn't like, if my team elected a president that you didn't like, it'd be okay for us to say, "Well, let's not worry about these silly laws that are supposed to protect people like you from Oscar and his friends."
Elect's never going to be really true if every >> We've abolished slavery. We've allowed women to vote. We've made it >> Hold on. I'm losing you.
>> Yeah, I don't support that either. I'm not laughing.
>> You don't support what? Women to vote.
>> Jaden, I don't usually do this with people this young, but I'm going to insist that you turn your camera. I'm going to insist that you turn your camera on if you continue. I think you're a troll.
>> Is it cuz I'm beating you?
>> No, it's cuz you're saying >> you're changing the topic cuz I'm beating you.
>> You can say whatever you want. I don't really care. If you want to proceed with the conversation, you need to turn your camera on.
>> I'm I'm Cuz I don't believe that you're serious. I don't believe that you're convicted about the things that you're saying. I think that you're just a rage baiter and you don't like the way that it's not really like working on me. I'm not getting too enraged. I'm kind of in teacher mode cuz you're young. But I but you're an adult. You're 19. I need you to act like it and I'm going to ask and I'm going to insist that you turn your camera on or I'm going to block you from my show permanently cuz I don't have time for stuff like this.
>> No. No. Nothing else happens next. I'm either going to block you or you're going to turn your camera on. These are the rules. It's my show.
>> I'm up fast.
>> I I would love for you to continue the conversation. I think I think sometimes it's important to be able to have conversations with people who are young and as lost as you are. But I think I am going to have to block you cuz I don't think you're going to turn your camera on.
You're teacuped. I don't know what what you're going to research. I'm just going to block you. I don't take you seriously. You tell me that women don't need to vote and you're not willing to put your face behind it. I'll have a conversation with somebody about how they think that women shouldn't vote with their face on or with their camera on. Not doing it.
Come on, Tik Tok. I blocked him. Get him out of the call.
There we go. There we go. Uh, forgot a couple of housekeeping items today because we were I was a little distracted as we were starting the show.
Uh, we have Raven in the producer chair today, not Jesse. Hello, Raven.
>> Hi.
>> Um, physically in the room with me. Um, we're uh we're trying to figure out my my dog has figured out that if she barks during the show, she will get attention from somebody trying to quiet her down.
So, we're working on that. So, if my dog barks during the show, we are in the arms race against my hyper intelligent working breed, Chocolate Lab, that uh knows how to get what she wants. Anyway, uh if you enjoy the show, if you enjoy how I handle the trolls, you can go to the link tree in the bio and follow me on all the other platforms for free. It doesn't cost you a dime. If you have a dime that you want to spare, you can send it to my Venmo Cash App, up buy me a coffee, or Patreon. If you're international, you can send that dime to buy me a coffee. That one works internationally. That's the ad read.
Follow the backup account so you can watch the show when this account gets banned for something silly. We're going to talk to Michelle. We're going to see if Michelle is a Trump supporter.
Hi. I'm so sorry. Can you hear me?
>> I can. Are you a friendly?
>> Um, yes. But give me one second. I'm so sorry. I'm the reason I'm the reason why you're >> I'm 28. I'm about to turn 28.
>> Okay. 10 seconds.
>> Okay. Um, I'm the reason why you're going through these lives and everything. Um, I'm a DACA recipient and I can't thank you enough for everything that you do.
>> Unfortunately, I lost everything because of this demonstration.
Sorry.
I um I got let go because my work permit didn't come through on time. I've been here since I was two, so for 26 years.
I've, you know, I paid my taxes and everything and I've been doing the right thing for the past 5 months, not working illegally. That's what they want, right?
They don't want me to work illegally.
I'm so sorry. Um, but I can't file for unemployment, which is not fair. I have been stuck at home for 5 months because I don't want to get arrested and get deported.
I'm so sorry. Yeah, I know this is hard dating supporters.
>> It's just >> I'm not I'm not doing the hard work. I for whatever reason I've got thick skin for this. So don't worry about me.
>> It's not about me. None of this is about me.
>> Thank you so much. I sent you a DM and if you could um reach out to Dean. I really really need help.
>> Um I know I know his I know his Discord has some some options. Um, but I'm I'll write down >> I tried to send him a DM as well on Instagram.
>> Yeah, I I gave you I gave you I gave you a follow. Um, so so you'll float to the top and I do I do sift through the Instagram inbox as well.
>> And again, thank you so much and I really really appreciate you. Um, thank you.
>> Yeah, of course. Um, thanks for hopping up. I know I one of the things that's most frustrating to me about this is not just like dealing with all these nonsensical arguments and like all this I mean like I guess it is the hate but like specifically it's that these people just like don't see or care that there are people like you who are just trying to live your life. You are just trying to do what everybody else is trying to do. You were just trying to feed yourself, clothe yourself, live in the security of a home where you feel safe.
if that's so basic a thing for people to ask.
Like people forget the [ __ ] humanity of it. And I see it. I'm I'm in Minneapolis, so I have a lot of I have a lot of firsthand time with people with stories like yours. And it I mean that's that's kind of the fire under my ass to keep doing this. I don't talk about it every day. I don't give, you know, it it's not it's not always the best thing for the show for me to sit here and cry about how my heart breaks for people like you, but it it does. And that is why I do this.
>> And thank you for not kicking me out because I've been trying to reach out to people and they're like, "No, you're not."
>> I felt bad immediately. I like made the wrong facial expression when you joined.
I thought, "Oh, here we go again.
Another friendly who's going to take up some of my air time." But no, this is important. This is different than just love what you do. Thanks, goodbye. I mean, it's not, you know, it's not just about you being like a fan. It's cuz that's not what I'm like trying to give airtime to the odd friendly for. It's that this this whole thing that we're going through right now is is you know when we read that poem about how they came for this or that group first or they came for this or that group second or they came for this or that group third and I was none of those things so I didn't do anything about it until they came for me. Like I'm pretty far down the [ __ ] list. May, you know, maybe I'm putting myself in all the danger of being on here, but it's so many people like you. I mean, you know, you're sitting here talking about the consequences of something that happened when you were a baby.
>> Mhm. and you're just and you're just trying to make it like the rest of us, you know, like it's not I'm I'm a person who like my parents had like legal residency. Like my dad was a citizen, he was born here. Um my mom wasn't she wasn't born here. Um and I happened to be born in America by like coincidence because my older siblings were born in Canada and my younger siblings were born here >> and it's just so happens that my family was this side of the border when I was born.
>> But I'm white so nobody cares. Like that doesn't that's not meaningful to anybody. I don't have as nearly as many Trump supporters as I might have expected coming and doubting my citizenship because I'm like some kind of anchor baby for being the children of immigrants.
One generation moved on my dad's side.
We could say the same thing about him.
Um >> before everything this happened, I I had two jobs, you know, cuz you know the economy. I had a full-time and I had a part-time and unfortunately my full-time just notified me that um they had to replace me which I understand it's been 5 months but that full time gave me well not gave me but I was able to you know get my insurance and everything like I lost everything and um I can't thank you enough for everything. Um for people that they think that we asked for too much we we don't have a criminal record.
Um, my record is clean. I've never done anything. Um, again, thank you so much.
I really appreciate you. I hope you have a nice day.
>> Thanks for your time. Message me. I'll uh I'll see you.
>> Thank you.
I had that crash out like a week ago and like it's been really vindicating to me that people who are in my local community who did a lot of that work, you know, who who moved groceries to people who were afraid to go to the grocery store, who I mean, the work I was doing is I was being a a bodyguard for [ __ ] kids. I was I was walking from a school bus to a work study program or to a kid's house or or to the school building. I was just standing there looking left and right for them so they didn't have to. Um and uh I you know what was so vindicating about the reaction to that crash out is that so many people in my area saw it. Chat, let me know if you can hear my dog moaning and groaning. She wants attention. Where is she?
>> On my left.
>> Noodle, go lie down. You are disturbing a very, very somber moment. All done.
Go lie down.
Lie down.
>> Um, lie down.
>> All the way.
>> Daniel, get in the [ __ ] queue, dude.
I'm going to ban you if you have another [ __ ] word to say about what I did during Metro Surgeon. You don't want to come up here and show your face and talk about it. I see you in the chat.
You're one of those people. You're going to call me a coward for doing that.
You're going to say that [ __ ] didn't happen. You're going to come up here and turn your camera on and do it with your [ __ ] face. I've got no [ __ ] interest in it. I don't [ __ ] care. If you think there's not so much video content of this happening, you are closing your eyes and covering your ears and screaming that it didn't happen because you were afraid of the truth.
And the truth is that you support people who make people cry like that person who just called in whose life has fallen apart because of what happened when she was a child and the politics of today.
And if you [ __ ] support that, you can come on and turn your camera on and you and I can have a conversation about it like adults.
I don't think Daniel's going to get in the queue. I don't think Daniel is serious. I don't I don't think I don't think most of these people are [ __ ] serious. But what I think is a serious problem is that they can hear somebody cry and connect with me for a moment and have a human moment on this show and they can call it [ __ ] and they can laugh about it in the chat and they're too much of a [ __ ] coward to come show their face and tell me that they have a [ __ ] problem with it.
They're probably a kid trolling. If they're a kid, go do something else with your time. You don't belong in these lives. They're not for kids.
It's real life. You know, people joke and say like, "Oh, you know, you act like it's a radio show." I act like it's a radio show cuz acting like a radio show gets me the viewership of a radio show. I got invited to be on a radio show. I won't say which one until it's sorted out, but I will be on the airwaves soon.
But it's cuz I [ __ ] take this seriously cuz I recognize that this is real life. These are people's lives.
These are people This is people's safety and security. People think it's a [ __ ] joke for people to not be secure in their homes because they're so privileged that they can't imagine the idea of an armed man making them unable to be safe in their homes. That's what I deal with on this show and that's why we're going through this tide change of us sorting through the the the trolls and really trying to really trying to engage with people who are serious. Even though it might be good for Instagram views to, you know, dunk on the the chuds who don't make sense and make bad arguments or whatever. Um, people are [ __ ] dying.
ICE ICE, you know, stopped they they announced that they were going to stop doing unnecessary vehicle stops because of because of some of these uh these these shootings that have been happening and [ __ ] before the policy could even go into effect before every even got the [ __ ] memo they killed another person in Florida.
>> They also resumed traffic stops.
>> Yeah. The story the headline will circulate that that they stopped traffic stops. Oh, they stopped. Doesn't matter that. I'm sorry. Did I unmute you, Cooktop? I'm having a moment. One of my mods brought you in. But like, come on.
Um, yeah, it's I have to leverage how much I spend on the how much time I spend on this show being entertaining so the show is successful. How much time I spend being yappy and filling and saying, "Link tree in the bio. Go send me money, [ __ ] support the show, whatever the [ __ ] I say." versus like getting down to the fact that like the reason I I I was so impassioned to do this is because I saw what happened in my community and I just could not stand that I wasn't a bigger part of it. Um when I felt like I had some skill sets that could make me a bigger part of it. Daniel is just some [ __ ] in the chat for the people in the the chat asking. He was just talking [ __ ] about the very real conversation we just had with a friendly caller. Uh and I told him he was a [ __ ] coward who was not going to show up in my queue and come show his face and talk to me about it. I was right. He was gone. He was muted in the chat and we're done with him. Um, anyway, Cook Talk, I've sent you an invitation to unmute.
How old are you?
>> Uh, 29.
>> You support Trump?
>> Uh, for the most part.
>> Okay. Why?
>> Uh, for the most part, I voted him in uh due to like social concerns. Uh but then >> which which social concerns?
>> Can I finish answering?
>> Sure.
>> I did start to see a couple of other things that I I did like about him. But again, we can address that later since you want to ask me about social issues.
>> Uh yeah, I mean definitely I think immigration is necessarily a social issue to a certain degree, but also like transgender policies and stuff like that. Uh >> why are these important?
Well, because I think that uh there's nothing we can do that doesn't affect our neighbor. Like everything we do affects one another. Even if it's indirectly, it can affect the policy.
>> That's true. Regardless of where your neighbor came from, why do why are these issues important to you? Why do they weigh heavily on you? I think you might have just heard a conversation about the sorts of things that are weighing heavily on me right now. Why are these issues weighing more heavily on you than the things that weigh heavily on me?
>> Um, the same things probably weigh heavy on us, but in different ways. I think that the social issues with like the transgender people, I just think that, you know, I can I can accept people want to live their lives differently, but I also don't want to accept things that are not reality.
>> I don't believe you. I don't think >> you finish. Hey, you're kind of interrupting me. That's very impolite and I'm going to let you finish. Just let me >> I'm not interested in virtue signaling.
I'm interesting in I'm not talking about virtue signaling, but >> I'm talking about virtue signaling because it is what you were doing. You didn't say anything about Yeah. Yeah.
You can you can act as though you've got the upper hand in this conversation cuz I'm stepping on your toes. Listen, you're going to order me to listen. I'm sorry. I'm going to talk over you until you shut the [ __ ] up and listen to what I have to say. Cuz what I need to understand about people like you is why what trans people do, even if you don't like the way they're defined or you don't like what they call themselves.
Why is how they spend them time their time at all important to you in light of those things that weigh so heavily on me? The fact that there are so many people who don't feel I'm sorry. I'm not finished. I thought I'm sorry. I I thought I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Whose [ __ ] show is it? Answer that question. Whose show is it? Whose show is it? Whose show is it? Whose show is it?
>> I don't give a goddamn Whose show it is.
>> It's my [ __ ] show. Tell my audience why you care what trans people are doing more than the suffering of all these people about it. If you don't if you don't I'm just asking questions, dude.
If you're going to let me finish the [ __ ] sentence, you answer the [ __ ] question. You have the floor.
>> Yeah. So, what I care about is acknowledging what's true and what's not. It's not true.
>> Sorry, that's not an answer to my question. Why is that more important to you than the suffering of these people?
>> I said that I don't like to acknowledge things that are not >> Congratulations. You don't have to. You could mind your own [ __ ] business.
Why are you calling into my show and talking about them? You said that you don't want to acknowledge them and you called into my No, shut up. I need you need to be quiet. I don't I don't use the mute button on my show. We don't need to have a conversation about it at all. You didn't need to call on my show and bring it up. This is a talking point that's created by people like you who care about this as a social issue. So answer why is it so important? I don't mute use the mute button. So you need to quiet down if you want to be able to have a conversation with me. You need to listen what I'm saying. We're not having a conversation. Say what I got to say.
>> I need you're not answering my question.
My question is why is this an important issue to you?
>> I'm trying to explain it to you, but you're not taking what I'm saying.
>> I said I acknowledge what is true and what is not true. If that affects you, >> it's true that you're a coward if you don't turn your camera on. I want to see your face.
>> What does it have to do with anything?
>> Camera. Camera or kick? It's my show. My rules. You got 10 seconds.
>> Tell me why. What does that have to do?
>> Nine.
>> You're a runner.
>> Seven. You're a coward.
>> Four. Three. Have a conversation. You're a coward. Let everybody know.
>> Coward.
Rejection. I'm [ __ ] tired of it. This show started in a way that's going to make me in a particular [ __ ] mood today when it comes to people who want to come here and tell me that this [ __ ] is important and not give any [ __ ] reason for why it [ __ ] matters what anybody does with their [ __ ] body in the privacy of their own home or in a restroom or something like that when there is no [ __ ] evidence that it causes harm to [ __ ] anybody when there is real harm happening out in the [ __ ] world. If you want to bring me an issue that is unimportant against a background of human suffering, I'm going to ask you turn on your [ __ ] camera and smile while you tell me about it.
Thanks everybody for the YouTube super chats. I know I saw some coming in. I just didn't really feel right reading donations early on. Kronos, thank you for the two bucks. W Oscar and W Jesse.
Um Jesse might be working. She's not working on the show right now, but she's autonomous with editing on her laptop, so maybe she's working on the show. W Staff Crona says, "Sorry, W Raven, too.
We got to learn uh we got to lean again sometime." That's an inside joke from the members chat Sunday evenings. That happens. Katie Meyer says, "For this caller, I'm so sorry. No one should uh should be treated this way. I should have read that one out."
And I Hit Milk sent me 50 bucks to say thank you for your show, Oscar.
Thank you. I appreciate it.
I really do. Um I get to do this, you know? Like it was it was it's a it's a big [ __ ] thing doing it for free for a long time. It was very difficult. But now that I don't have to work to feed myself, I get to really dive in on this stuff. And I I feel very honored by that.
I do not feel very honored by my app's not refreshing very well. I'm trying to live. Thank you, Max. I know you don't want your message read, but I appreciate you. And Mr. Fancy, uh $20 on buy me a coffee. Please keep doing what you do.
You spreading these messages and inviting those who are actually serious does a lot for changing minds. Yeah. I just I just don't think that the people who are going to say hateful things without their without wanting to turn their cameras on are are uh are serious.
So, we're going to move right the [ __ ] on past those people and have some serious grown-up conversations about what's happening in America. Toby, thanks for gifting those memberships out to people on YouTube so they can join the members only stream on Sunday evenings after the evening show. I really appreciate it. Um and I read I hate milk's $50. Thank you so much. I hate milk. one of the people who have gotten to know in this time.
There's a lot of a lot of interesting communitying stuff community stuff happening around me right now that I'm excited about. The people who want to turn on the cameras don't have community. So, they call in, they try to bother people like me and they don't like that it gets put on display that they're not serious and they're doing it to make themselves feel better instead of actually elicit positive change in the country. Owen 2xr, let's see if we got ourselves a patriot or not.
No, I don't think he meant to connect.
I CRC spelled funny. I don't know. Hello. How old are you?
>> 19. 2007.
>> Okay. Do you support Trump?
>> Better than uh Kla. I just want to get your thoughts on the Rene situation.
>> I you can have my thoughts on the rene.
Are you aware of that?
>> You let us know. Well, you just said something earlier that I want to address cuz cuz you mispronounced the vice president, the former vice president's name. Do you know how her name is pronounced or do you not know? And you're >> Yeah, it's pronounced Kamla, but I prefer to say Camala.
>> Why do you prefer to say it wrong?
>> Uh, because she is wrong.
>> Call Donald Denowled and see how offended I get. Go ahead.
>> He's a rapist. I'll call him I'll call whatever I feel like calling him. I have a good answer to the question why I don't respect him. Why don't Why don't you respect I'm I'm not interested in how offended you get, but I but I don't think there's a good reason to disrespect Kla Harrison that way. I just wanted to know which type of caller you are. Thank you for answering. What do you want to know about Renee? Good.
>> Uh how let us know how you feel about it. Let let everyone know.
>> I think that Jonathan Ross really thoroughly violated his use of force guidelines as handed to him by DHS and he belongs in prison for what he did.
>> Well, actually, she drove her car towards him while his gun was pointed at her. Yeah. He's not supposed to be in front of the car. The car was stopped the two separate times.
>> Doesn't have the ability to retreat.
>> Yes, they do.
>> No, they don't.
>> When it comes when it comes to it, DHS has very specific guidelines. You can laugh. Do we need to DHS has very specific use of force guidelines when it comes to a person operating a vehicle where the vehicle is the concern to safety and they actually do, you are wrong, have a duty to retreat if they're a >> law enforcement does not have a duty to retreat.
>> Yes, they do. You're making that up. So, DHS up. Let's actually do it. Let's do it out. Let's say let's let's search DHS use of force. Uh >> does law enforcement have a duty to retreat?
>> I'm sorry. Do you want Yeah, I didn't say that law enforcement has the duty to retreat generally. I'm saying that >> you did though. You did.
>> In the exact case you asked me about, Jonathan Ross had a duty to retreat from the vehicle because the DHS use of force guidelines are very >> actually she was blocking vehicles and they were trying to detain her. That's a pivot away from the fact that they simply uh Raven, could you control F and find in this document where it says that if they're able to get out of the way, right? Yeah. I have my producer uh just use F to find where it says that if if the officer is able to get out of the way of the vehicle, they have to. I forget exactly how it's worded in this uh use of force handbook that comes from dhs.gov, but that's the source. My producer is going to work on that while I talk to you. Um yeah. So, does it is it important to you what the DHS handbook says is exactly what Jonathan Ross is supposed to do in the situation that he's in or are you going to ignore that and make bizarre unrelated?
>> So, if it is >> there's no specific training though for of this situation though.
>> Yes, there is. There's supposed to be there's supposed to be there's supposed to be trained on what this handbook says. And the handbook says that if a person if a if there's a concern for safety for bodily harm created by a person operating a vehicle, the first line of defense that an officer is supposed to have is that they are supposed to get out of the way if they are able. That is in addition to the fact that to even create this situation, Jonathan Ross had to make a mistake that violated his training with which he actually happened to make twice. I'm not finished. He was circling. I'm not finished.
>> I'm not going to do it today, dude. If you're going to call in and tell me that he followed the rules when he didn't, you're going to listen to what he did and what the rules are. I'm accusing him of doing exactly what he did and it is in violation. You are not in charge of DHS's use of force policies. Nor am I.
They exist. They are written. You can Google them. You can go check what he was allowed to do in that situation.
>> That's why it was justified. Why hasn't he been invited?
>> You can reckon it justified, but the law doesn't care and I don't give a half a [ __ ] >> Law enforcement.
>> Wait, let's see.
>> Why did he get indicted if he broke that then? If he if he wasn't supposed to if he was supposed to move out the way, why didn't he get indicted?
>> Where? Wait, where do we have vehicles?
>> Because that's not that's not how all situations are. When you're impeding a federal operation, you don't have a duty to retreat once they're getting detained. You're not supposed to follow the first there's there's multiple situations.
>> All right. Directly from DHS's handbook.
I'm going to put it on the screen if you [ __ ] doubt me.
>> Okay. What if you can't get out the window?
>> I'm sorry. Are you going to ask me a what about or you going to listen to what the use of force handbook [ __ ] says about it?
>> Yeah, go ahead.
>> All right. DHS, all law enforcement officers are prohibited from discharging firearms at the operator of a moving vehicle, vessel, aircraft, or other conveyance unless the use of deadly force against the operator is justified under the standards articulated elsewhere in this policy. Justified it.
>> Yes, you are declaring that without evidence. I am reading the evidence to you and you are running the [ __ ] away from it. Let us continue reading.
>> Let us continue reading. Before using deadly force under these circumstances, the law enforcement officer must take into consideration the hazards that may be posed to law enforcement and innocent bystanders by an outofcrol conveyance.
An outofc control conveyance is what happened after he shot her in the face, which is that the vehicle kept barreling through a [ __ ] neighborhood. They are supposed to avoid that sort of unsafe outcome. And he failed to do that. Fire.
Furthermore, in section B right here, I'm not finished. Listen, use your ears.
Firearms shall not be discharged solely as a warning or signal or solely to disable moving vehicles, vessels, aircraft, or other conveyances except under the limited circumstances described in section V. Shall we read section V?
>> You don't care, dude. Like that's >> actually actually what what the [ __ ] are you know I'm actually going to take this down because what the [ __ ] are you going to actually about when I am reading you the use of force guidelines and you are just pretending that they say something that they [ __ ] don't have you ever read that document before? Are you familiar with it? Are you familiar with any of the legal arguments against Jonathan Ross? Are you familiar with any of the precedent that exists around firearms being irresponsibly used by law enforcement officers to stop a moving vehicle? You can if and reckon and say I would have done this, but I'm not interested in any of that. I am interested in what the law is. Do you or do you not believe in law and order?
Camera on or the show doesn't proceed.
You're not serious. You've been invited to turn your camera on. I'm going to kick you in 15 seconds if you don't turn it on. Can't be real. This guy, I want to continue the conversation. One. All right, I'll countdown. 15 14 13 >> All right, fine. I'll [ __ ] kick you.
Done. I'm not [ __ ] interested. If you don't care what the use of force guidelines are and you want to call in and tell me that he wasn't following the use of force guidelines, end of conversation. Why should Why do I proceed? Why is it worth anybody's time?
There's nearly a thousand people watching. Why is it worth anybody's time for you to say that he's not following that he did follow the rules when you are unwilling to listen to a person who is patiently reading you the [ __ ] rules? Maybe I wasn't reading them that patiently today. Maybe I'm a little keyed up. Maybe I'm a little [ __ ] angry that people are still calling in and litigating the most obvious [ __ ] People are still using the one bad angle from halfway down the block where the compression on this pixelated [ __ ] Ring doorbell camera makes it look like he might have been in front of the vehicle. Never mind the three or four other angles that show that he was very clearly beside the angle at the exact time that we can find in that one blurry footage where from the front it looks because of the compression like he's in front of the bumper because we can synchronize those footage to the sound of the gunshot and you know like the clap at the beginning when the director says action right you know we can synchronize to that and see exactly where his feet were on the pavement and we can see that the actions that he did not only were in use of force viol use a violation of the use of force guidelines by DHS he had to violate his training to put himself in that situation because law enforcement officers are not supposed to step in front of a vehicle that has a driver in it if they are approaching that vehicle for any reason.
He did it twice. He circled the vehicle.
The first time making it all the way around. The second time making it almost all the way around before having to before Rene turned the steering wheel all the way over to the right to get around him. At which point he successfully stepped out of the way, lied to the media about the fact that he had a submal hematoma, which is a bruise. And we know because of the way that the right propagandizes information that if he was actually gravely injured, if there was a shred of truth to the fact that his life was in danger, if there's a shred of truth to the fact that he was disabled in some way that had him scared and fearing for his life, there'd be a [ __ ] photograph on the news. These people don't [ __ ] care.
They know everything I just said and they don't give a [ __ ] because they are racist, misogynistic [ __ ] who do not care about the suffering of others and they know that people will think that about them in their real life if they show their face on my show. No, they don't.
Manga G45, I've invited you to unmute your microphone. How old are you?
>> Manbag.
>> What is it?
>> Manbag.
>> Oh, manbag. Sorry.
>> That's all right. You're going off, man.
You're probably a little emotional.
>> Yes, I am emotional. It hurts my feelings when human beings suffer. What do you support Trump?
>> Uh, I don't have no support, but I would vote for him again over Camala if that came back up. I don't know. Put another camera.
>> Are you aware of how her name is pronounced or are you doing it on purpose?
>> Who?
>> Kamala Harris.
>> Uh, I just said that.
>> Harris. What's What the difference?
>> Whatever, dude. Um, I'm just going to like skip the [ __ ] on this one. So, camera on or get the [ __ ] off my show.
>> You want Do I have to do it the whole time or just for like a second to show you? What are you talking about?
>> I'm You know, it's just like I'm It's this disingenuous thing.
>> What's your deal, dude? I'm I'm just I'm Look, I I often have to give people the benefit of the doubts that people in the chat like don't think I'm running or whatever. But I can just tell by the [ __ ] tone of your voice that you're not serious and I don't think you are unless you turn on your camera. So, I'm just not do I'm just not interested.
>> Bring myself up here. I was >> ignorance about the name pronunciation thing. You know, you know it bothers people. You know it's disrespectful. You know why I was asking you probably what comes out what comes out of the faucet >> in your sink. I don't care. Camera honoret do it. The que's too full, dude. I'm like, no, you don't you don't deserve airtime on my show. I'm going to move on to somebody who might. I doubt this username followed by a [ __ ] phone number cuz it's a default burner account is going to be any better. So, he'll be on my show for 5 seconds until I hit the [ __ ] kick button. Be ready to ban him, Raven. No, he's not even going to connect.
Not [ __ ] doing it today. Tybond, give me a meaningful conversation. Show that you care about this country. Show that you care about humans. How old are you?
>> I am 19 years old.
>> Okay. Do you support Trump?
>> Uh, no, sir. [ __ ] Trump.
>> Looking for Trump supporters. Lady Rain, I'm going to see if uh if they're a Trump supporter. Toby, thanks for sending those memberships. I really appreciate that.
Jazz sent me two bucks on YouTube super chat to say [ __ ] valid crash out.
Oscar rip him to shreds. This isn't even a crash out for me. Like this is I mean I guess I don't crash out very much, but I'm just not [ __ ] having it today.
Anastasia, thanks for the $5 on Venmo.
She says, "Hey Oscar, read for economics. Check decree 770. Uh Romania's abortion ban and its long-term effects. Aborn baby's life matters too.
Please add this to your argument. Magg ignores post truth reality. I'll check it out. Um good to always have like precedent like examples of how things have gone elsewhere. Um David sent me five bucks to say guest really just started his boring rant off with um actually yeah a lot of people do that that sort of thing where it's just like oh actually we're going to I'm just going to disagree with you even though you're showing me evidence to the contrary of everything I'm saying. Um, yeah. I'm going to I'm going to run and be a coward cuz I don't want to show my face cuz I'll get in trouble with my mom or my girlfriend or something if uh everybody knows I'm so piece of [ __ ] Uh, thank you, Emily, for the galaxy.
Michael Teti, he's got a face in his profile picture.
Maybe he's a real person. Maybe he's a patriot. Maybe he's a humanist.
How old are you?
>> Hello.
>> Hello. How old are you?
>> 34. Do you have a Bluetooth device connected? You're a little muffled.
>> Uh I'm not a Trump supporter, so I don't think this >> Yeah. Not not relevant how good the connection is. That's just just looking for Trump supporters trying to find somebody actually thinks that MAGA is doing anything other than destroying America because I think those faceless callers who refuse refuse to show their face, stand on business on the claims they make on my show. I think that they don't they don't actually think that MAGA is not destroying America. I think they know it's destroying America and they want America destroyed because they think they're going to win from the destruction. I think I'm looking out for them, too, cuz I think they're wrong. I think the billionaires have fooled them into thinking they're special and that they're going to get treated well by the regime, and that's not what the [ __ ] is going to happen. And if you knew anything about history, you'd [ __ ] know that. So, maybe I'm teacher mode today. Maybe we can talk about how things went in the 30s and 40s in Germany. Maybe maybe we can talk about the way that things look looked uh before, you know, before things got really bad in Germany, just when things were on the brew. Maybe we should talk about all the human rights groups that are watching the US and saying, "Uh-oh, we got a genocide appro certain groups."
Uh, maybe we can have a meaningful educational conversation about that, but I [ __ ] doubt it cuz that's not what happens on TikTok Live anymore. Enoch, how old are you?
>> Hello.
>> Hello.
>> Hello. How old are you?
>> Uh, I'm 27.
>> You support Trump?
>> Absolutely freaking not.
>> Looking for Trump supporters. We talk to Melo call sign Big G.
>> Hello. How are you?
Uh 17, but I'll talk to you about this.
>> Tik Tok to buddy. Also, politics. Not really interested in talking to children about it. Uh we're going to talk to Charlie.
>> How old are you?
>> I'm 20.
>> You Trump supporter?
>> Yes, I am.
>> Why is that?
>> I want to give you a rundown of our previous conversation. I've debated you before. So, last time I was on your platform, you said that I, as a man, you brought up a woman and she said that I wasn't allowed to talk about abortion because I am a man.
>> I don't agree with that particular. I actually I I do talk about abortion often on the show when without people who have uter uteruses present. So, like I get where that comes from and we can have like a conversation about people saying that, but >> can I finally finish my story?
>> Oscar admitted to being disingenuous when he said that last time you two talked. Okay, let me finish what I was saying and then um I can go ahead. And then you proceeded to bring up a trans woman and the trans woman said that they are a woman that abortion is affecting them. And then the straight person said that you just have to have a uterus in order to be engaged in the conversation.
And then he brought up a trans man.
>> So you guys were up here. Someone was saying that you have to have a uterus to talk about it. And then the trans woman started talking about it, but she didn't have a uterus. And then you said, "Oh, no. You just have to identify as a woman."
>> People call in all the time and tell me how big of their feelings are about how things went previously on the show. But it doesn't make you look good. Nobody [ __ ] cares, dude. It's not good radio. It's not good air time. Start over.
>> I don't even remember what we talked about. Oh no, you got bullied by some people who care about human rights. God forbid. What a terrible thing. I don't give a [ __ ] dude. Cry me a [ __ ] >> You guys look so stupid.
>> You guys look so incredibly stupid.
>> My career's over. I look stupid.
>> You guys don't know what a man is.
>> Cancel the show. You don't know what a woman is.
>> Camera on or get off my [ __ ] show.
>> Accept the invitation.
>> Upset.
>> Camera on. Congratulations.
>> You are mad, >> man. You're weird. You're weird.
>> Came on.
>> You're really weird.
>> Cameron, thank you.
>> Camera, you're not going to turn your camera on cuz you're a coward. You don't actually You don't defend anything.
>> You don't want to debate. You're a loser. You don't want to debate. You're scared. You're running.
>> Chat >> clip.
>> Call me a [ __ ] loser so Charlie feels better about himself. Ryan, be a [ __ ] serious person. That's the rule today.
>> Hey, good morning.
>> How old are you?
>> 33.
>> You support Trump?
>> Uh, no. It's complicated.
>> Looking for Trump supporters. Hang with my shooters. Be a Trump supporter. Be serious.
>> I smack the [ __ ] out of you, [ __ ] >> Send me threats. [ __ ] cool. Get that username written down. Mods, be unknown.
Be known. Turn your [ __ ] camera on if you say bigoted [ __ ] on my show. We'll see if I ask you to turn your camera on.
How old are you?
>> I'm 18.
>> What year?
>> Oh, eight.
>> Trump supporter?
>> Yeah.
>> Why?
>> Because of people like you that compare America to 1930s Nazi Germany.
>> Mhm.
>> That's why. So because I'm because I make that comparison, that's why you support a rapist as president. You thought, I don't like that Oscar does that. I'm going to go vote for Trump to make him unhappy. Is that a serious argument you're making? I can't turn ask you to turn your camera on because your account's either private or too young to have the privileges. So I don't get to use that as a lever of control here. But I don't think it's [ __ ] serious for you to say that sort of nonsense on my show. Is that actually how you form your [ __ ] political beliefs? Be real.
>> You all push me away. Y'all push me away. Say something more [ __ ] serious and we won't. I'm not interested in you suggesting that it's because of people like me that you support this monster.
Tell me why you actually support this monster.
>> Um, what's the burden of proof in a civil court?
>> I'm sorry. Was that an answer to my question?
>> No, because you called you call the president a rapist.
>> It's a burden in a civil court is higher than the court of public opinion, which is where you and I sit right now and where you and I sit when we're in the voting booth voting. I am not interested in hearing a burden of proof argument.
Yes, it's higher in a criminal trial. It is lower for voting.
>> I don't Yeah. What is it for? How how sure do you have to be that somebody isn't a rapist to elect them president?
What percentage do you need?
>> If you want to talk percentages, tell me. Answer that question. If you're if you're going to be called, uh, it needs to be proven.
>> Nothing happens next on my show other than you telling me the percentage that you need to be sure that a person is not a rapist to vote for them for president.
I'm guessing it's less than 51%.
I need to, you know, I need to be sure as much sure in a criminal court. Like I'm pretty sure it's 95%.
>> So you need to be 95% sure that somebody's a rapist to not vote for them for president. Am I hearing that correctly?
>> That's the It needs to be criminal court. That's the That's the cause in criminal court.
>> I'm sorry. That's not an answer to my question. You said it's about 50% in a civil litigation. What percentage of certainty do you need that a president isn't a rapist for you to vote for them?
That's the question. I'm not going to move on from it. I'm not going to get distracted. I have a longer attention span than you because I have a longer attention span than almost everybody who calls into this [ __ ] show, especially people your age because your brain is [ __ ] rotted because of people giving you tablets instead of attention for your entire life. Which is something that breaks my heart and I wish I could actually connect with you on a personal level and talk about and help you with.
But because you bring me this adversarial [ __ ] I don't I have to ask you [ __ ] up questions like if 50% isn't good enough. How sure do you have to be that the president is is a rapist to not vote for them?
I mean I I need to be found criminal court which is 95%.
>> Okay. So you so you need to be you need you if you're if you're 95 if you're 94% sure that somebody is a rapist and only 6% sure that they're not that is enough for you to still vote for them. Is that what you're saying? Cuz that was the question.
>> Well when we are sure about things we don't go by percents.
>> I'm sorry. I am trying to make No, you're moving on to a different explanation. And what I asked you is, hey, I just regurgitated roughly what you said to in the way that makes clear what the answer to my question was. Am I hearing you correctly? That you can be 94% sure that somebody's a rapist, but that's not a high enough burden for you.
You're still going to vote for them.
You're going to vote for the guy that you're 94% sure is a rapist.
>> So like I I'm Please help me out here.
Have you ever been like 7% sure of something? Have you ever been like 13% sure of something?
>> What are you doing? asked a very specific question. You said that the burden of proof in a civil court isn't high enough to confirm that Donald Trump is a rapist enough for you to not vote for him. You said it's 50%. I said, "What is the percentage that you need to be sure that somebody isn't a rapist to vote for them for president?" You brought up a criminal trial where it's something like 95%. I don't even think that's accurate, but that's the number you offered, which suggests to me that if you're 94% sure that somebody's a rapist and only 6% sure that they're not, that you'd still vote for them for president. I asked if that was accurate.
Yes or no? Answer the [ __ ] question.
>> Yes.
>> That's [ __ ] up, dude. If you would you hire a babysitter for a child if you were 94% sure they had raped a kid?
>> No one's ever like 93 94. You're okay.
This is usually how it goes.
>> I'm sorry. I asked another direct yes or no question. Would you hire a babysit sitter to care for a child if you were only 94% sure that they brain works.
What if what if, for example, they'd been found civily liable for doing something horrible to a kid, but they weren't found criminally liable because the statute of limitations were up and they were never able to charge it.
>> This is how the brain works. You're either unsure about something, you're either sure about something, or you're very sure about something, >> right?
>> No, you're dodging this. You know, you know I've got you in a miserable, ugly corner where you don't want to be, and you and you get to comfort yourself by the fact that you don't have camera privileges or your account's private.
>> Can't wait to see you in person.
>> Can't wait to see me in person. Is that something you're saying to me? No, no.
The dude's commenting.
>> Yeah, that's [ __ ] up. Don't say like [ __ ] like that in my chat. Eyes up here, buddy. I'm the one putting you in the corner, not the chat. Listen to what I have to say. Why is your burden of proof so high for not voting for somebody for president? If they're a rapist, if you were 90% sure that Biden was a rapist, would you would you accept me saying, "Yeah, it's not good enough. I don't think that's enough." [ __ ] ridiculous.
>> Kicker keep chat. He's obviously not going to answer any of these questions.
>> This is No, like if I was sorry, I'm waiting for the poll to come in. Thank you, Danny, for the $3 on Venmo. Love you all. Thank you. Sorry, I don't talk over the the guests with donations unless you they do cowardly [ __ ] like you're doing. And I don't really have any other way to punish you cuz I can't.
There's the button to turn your camera on and gray out cuz your account's either doesn't have the privilege because you did something bad or because you have your account privated and you don't want me to be able to ask you that. So, I'm just going to like ask you. Yeah. I mean, we got some got some keeps, but a lot of >> If I was if I was very sure that someone was a rapist, no, not for impressive.
>> Okay. So, 94%'s not very sure enough for you. I I I I don't go by percents. I go by very sure, unsure.
>> I'm sorry. Then why if you don't go by percentages, why did you bring up the the percent likelihood that you need to be sure for a civil litigation, which is the metric that we have for Donald Trump? Why did you bring up percentages?
And then when >> Yeah. Why did you bring up percentages and then when cornered about them say that you don't do percentages? Chat wants you gone. I'm going to get you out of here. [ __ ] it. I I'm I'm not [ __ ] doing it today.
>> Interesting flavor show today. That first caller put me in a [ __ ] mood.
That second caller put me in a [ __ ] mood.
Ah, procrastinate like a pro. Sent $5 to say, "I love how the no mask crowd loves to hide behind the mask of anonymity on the internet." Uh, fash cucks. Yep. Uh, Chicken D sent me five bucks on YouTube super chat to say, "Hi, Raven. I want to thank you for all you do for all helping me try to save my brother from the Trump cult. I play guitar with him today and he will give it a go." I don't know what he's referencing, but yay, Raven.
>> Uh, probably my advice on dealing with the family that is mega.
>> Mhm. Civil only required 50%. He got unanimous 100%. I don't exactly agree with how the math works out on that cuz it is I mean it is it's it's it's it is nine people agreeing that it's more than 51%. And the likelihood of nine people agreeing gets that something is more than 50% gets you a lot closer to 100%.
That's kind of one of the ways that it works. Uh thank you Jack for the five bucks on Venmo. He said uh Trump officially paid Carol 5 million today for the civil case. It's in her bank account. There is no more denying that what he did to her it is self admittance. Yeah. He finished his final appeal. Supreme Court shot that [ __ ] down and he had to pay the [ __ ] up.
They're not going to care. They're not going to give a [ __ ] They're just going to, you know, deflect and dodge and say it was [ __ ] Just gonna say it doesn't matter. Even though, you know, even though there'd be a [ __ ] civil war if Biden was found guil civily liable of sexual assault and nobody nobody impeached him for it. It's [ __ ] crazy. Caitlyn sent me $5 to say, "I've been on a jury for a criminal trial. This caller knows nothing. If it had been a criminal court and I was on the jury, he would have been convicted and in jail." Yeah. I mean, again, the trial didn't get to happen. It's not like he like was charged criminally and got away with it. They was passed the [ __ ] statute of limitations. It's [ __ ] up that there's a statute of limitations on that sort of crime because of the recidivism rate. Which is why I'm so concerned about Trump being a sexual offender because of the recidivism rate. He's probably still not only doing those sorts of crimes, but also supporting people who do. We're going to talk to Ryan and see if Ryan has a spine. How old are you?
>> I'm 33. I want to know why you're doing this.
>> Doing what? Like >> I get that you want to debate Trump supporters.
>> Are you a Trump supporter?
It doesn't matter what I am.
You're not helping. You have the Minnesota flag behind you.
>> Camera on. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We'll talk.
>> You can see my picture.
>> I don't care if I can see your picture.
Turn your camera on.
>> I live in Minnesota.
>> Great.
>> Do you Do you Do you help the mutual funds in your community?
>> I do.
>> Do you Which which uh community do you live in then? South Minneapolis. Which >> camera on? I'm not I'm not [ __ ] like sitting here and like you know trying to get my [ __ ] virtue signal punch card checked so that you [ __ ] approve of what I'm doing. People in this community the community the people in this community have made it clear to that they clear to me that they appreciate what I'm doing. A member of it just [ __ ] called in this morning to talk about it and that's why I'm in such a [ __ ] >> I'm another member and I think it's lame.
>> Yeah. And I think that you can go [ __ ] yourself you c you coward. If you want to talk about it as a member of this community, show your [ __ ] face.
Callie and see if they're a coward.
Hello. How old are you?
>> I'm I'm 19. Trumper.
>> Um, yeah, I would say I am.
>> Okay. Why is that?
>> Because I do agree with most things he's doing currently. But also, I am um what's the word? I would say I don't support him for some other reasons, but not the ones you might think of or like you might be the ones that you don't um support him for.
>> All right, pick.
>> Sorry. That's okay. Pick one. What are we talking about?
>> I like the fact that we are securing our borders. Perhaps it's a bit harsh way, but I do agree that we should clear and make sure that we have legal entry into our country. Do you think that if he uh I'm sorry, he's trying to help legal entry? What? How's he doing that?
>> Well, by setting um strict border laws, making sure that everyone who does not enter laws. He's just enforcing them differently than they were being enforced prior. His What border policy are you talking about?
>> Just the fact that um if you enter illegally, you are subject to be removed by ICE and deported.
>> Right. That was already the law, >> right? and now he's enforcing it >> for sure again. Right. So my my concern is that he hasn't actually changed any of the rules and that the next administration isn't going to behave in this way. So whatever security you feel about the fact that the number of illegal border crossings has decreased because people are afraid of having their liberties violated when they're here and they're afraid of being murdered while they're here. They're afraid of being deported to a country they've never been to if they come here.
Those are very scary things the Constitution says that we shouldn't do to these people. But because we're maybe going to do those things to them, they aren't coming here as much. Do you think that that's going to last into the next administration? Especially in consideration of the possibility that the pendulum will swing back because people are upset about all this happening and we'll have a blue president who isn't going to enforce in this way.
>> Well, the chance that JD Vance will be elected into office is pretty high.
>> You driving? What's all this noise?
>> Hello.
Hello.
just walk around my house.
>> Okay, there's a lot of people watching.
Please pay more attention to the show that you're on.
>> I apologize.
Make pardon me for a second. Just make just make her do some tricks and then give her the give her the horn.
>> Sorry, my dog's excited today. Sorry.
>> Yeah, I don't think that was an answer to to what I was saying. I I don't think that Trump is making any policy that secures the border. I think he is scaring human beings away from the United States. And if he stops being president, that's >> Can I ask you a question?
>> May I?
>> You may ask me another question.
Why do you think it's okay for someone to enter a country that they thought well like illegally and not having like like just disregarding any of the pathways that we have set that let them enter but without having the risk of being kicked out?
>> I just don't think it's a very serious crime to commit and I think that they're facing some really difficult like ad like um like adverse conditions for their prosperity. So I just don't blame them. You know, it's like it's like speeding or jaywalking. It's a [ __ ] misdemeanor. Who cares?
>> Right. But if you enter our country illegally, you means that you can let anybody in. And um borders are there for >> You're just moving on. You're just moving on. You're not really like answering my concern, which is specifically Were you listening? Were you listening?
>> Yes.
>> What was my concern then?
>> Um I'm sorry. Can you please repeat it?
I really apologize.
>> That's okay. Just pay attention. Don't listen. Don't listen waiting for your turn to say your peace. Listen to what I say and respond to what I say. I think that there is no specific border policy.
There's no specific strategy to make the border more secure. There's no specific strategy to make a legal to make legal entry easier for these people. He's just scaring them away. It's really scary to be a legal immigrant in this country right now. It's very scary to be a minority of any kind in this country, even if you are a citizen because we're mistreating them. People are afraid of coming to our border because they're they're fleeing humanitarian crisis.
It's not a flex that we're creating a local humanitarian crisis that scares them away. And I don't think that that will last into the next administration.
It's not. It's something that will just evaporate immediately if there's Democratic control of the executive branch. Do you recognize that if a Democrat becomes president next, everything you're saying will go out the window, which wouldn't normally happen if he actually achieved it with policy because the policy wouldn't go out the window the moment the president changed.
But Trump's attitude towards all this will.
Yes, I I completely see that if there is a democratic control of the government, all this would literally be reversed because all they want to do is just go against what Trump is standing for and what he wants to do, which is basically what our country has come through, which is left versus right.
So, yes, I do see your concern.
>> So, okay. So, you want to make sure that we have continuous leadership that continues to create a humanitarian crisis at home that prevents people from wanting to move here.
>> It's not preventing people want to move here. It's removing someone who thought I'm better than than the than those laws and I can just come in when I want to and not have to >> We're not talking about the people who are already here. I laid out a very clear concern about the fact that the way that Trump has increased the number of illegal border crossings is by making America a scary place for minorities.
You think that's good?
No, not at all. Then what? But but what about this is good?
Well, like I said, you can be a minority in the country with legal citizenship and you don't have to worry. Myself, my dad came in, did all the paperwork, and it took him 5 years to do it, and that's how it is, you know? But that's a process. So now he doesn't have to worry about being deported cuz he didn't come in illegally. I >> I mean, what I'm not what I'm really fundamentally not understanding about this is why you're such a stickler about a [ __ ] misdemeanor. The example I always use is the green stuff, which we're not allowed to name here on TikTok, but you know the stuff I'm talking about. I spoke I smoke it personally. Yeah. Was it wrong for me to use it all those years before it came legal? Became legal where I live?
>> Um Well, it's like what are you saying?
Like is it bad that it's legal or >> Well, what should I Should I have gone to prison for using it before it became legal?
>> No, but the consequence in some states is that you go to prison.
>> Yeah, but that's shitty. We should change those laws. Do you agree?
>> No, cuz I don't use it. So >> Oh, cuz it doesn't So just because something doesn't affect you, you don't care about the laws. You're not interested. Do you think the law >> No, but like any drug, it should be penalized or penalized. And the pen and and the penalty for crossing border is deportation. The penalty for smoking weed might be um >> I [ __ ] warned you not to say it. God damn it. Wasn't a productive conversation anywhere. He wasn't going to [ __ ] listen to what we're to say.
Don't say the names of substances on Tik Tok or you get you get kicked. Um liable means if someone is at fault, it's that guy. Yeah, Tim Davidson, thank you for the two bucks on Venmo. People are still [ __ ] arguing about even Carol even though the Supreme Court is on my side.
Uh Danish currency 89 of them. I forget what it's called, but that's like 10 bucks or something. Thank you. Uh username is 709 something over on YouTube super chat. Been busy lately.
Finally caught up today. The caller yesterday who lied about being on his computer while using Tik Tok made me laugh so hard I had to stop running uh for a minute. Yeah, caught a guy at a dead lie. Yes, it's always fun when you catch somebody with in a lie like that on air because it's just so self-evidently obvious that they were lying given the thing he said was happening was impossible. Uh, Tavy said, "As a minority with citizenship, I worry." Yeah, dude. Yeah, man. It's [ __ ] up. Um, people who are [ __ ] born here have to worry about being swept up in this thing. Ty sent five bucks on Venmo. Hi, Oscar and Raven. I am a non-binary person who was raised by one of these insufferable ignorant men who keep calling in. I suffered because of that. It brings me hope that you both are fighting the bigots head on. Thank you so much. I appreciate you, Ty.
Thanks for the donation. You're helping out. Um, did I read Britney's? I don't remember. Uh, every single jury member, uh, unanimously agreed guilt. Every appeals court has agreed guilt. All the way to the Supreme Court. Every single person who has actually reviewed the case agrees the evidence shows guilt.
Yet, these guys still come up and say, "Nuhuh." That's all they got, Britney, is nuh-uh. Trust me, bro. Nuh-uh. Um, yeah. That's That's it. That's all that's all that's left. And that's the reason I'm I'm just kind of like, you know, today I'm in a particular mood, but like in general on my show, I'm getting less and less patient with people who just aren't engaging seriously with it because there's no somebody who says nu at this point about uh about Egene Carol is not somebody who's like ever going to have a meaningful conversation about [ __ ] any of this stuff. Tik Tok, 670 people watching. YouTube coming up on 350.
YouTube is going to give you a run for your money. Tik Tok, let's get competitive. Uh, oh, nobody in the queue. Look at that. Uh, I suppose I'll take a moment to remind everybody that if you enjoy the show, you can support it by following for free on all the other platforms, especially places like this backup account, Oscar Quinton Music down here. I've been switching back and forth between Oscar Quinton 2 and Oscar Quinton Music in the corner. Um, and uh, the idea here is to get that account nice and healthy so that if this show gets banned, if I lose this account that has 20,000 followers because I accidentally say the name of a substance or something like that, we can uh, you know, be able to run the show. So, with YouTube as healthy as it is, we'll just take calls from the public if I'm not on TikTok at all. Uh, gives the show some resilience. So, following all the places, make sure that you can find me if one of my accounts go down goes down and we can keep rebuilding if that does happen cuz I always got to worry about it. But if you want to support the show financially, you guys have been here and get the donations getting red. Venmo Cash App, buy me a coffee or Patreon.
And if you're international, buy me a coffee does work internationally. It has been reported to me. So, that is good.
Uh, Monty wants to request for a quick question. Not a very long debate. Please too, if you if you see dead air like this where there's nobody that requests you, feel free to drop uh pop in. I probably won't keep friendlies up for very long. It is just a little bad for the performance of the show. Nothing personal, just a like doing my job kind of uh as host of the show. Um but uh but if you want to get a you know quick 10 or 15 second question out and then I can respond to it while we wait for more calls, that that works good for engagement for the show. Hello Monty, how old are you?
>> 18.
>> Okay. What's your question?
Okay. So, I just wanted to ask cuz I'm I'm very complicated about it if that makes sense. So, I'm from England myself >> and I've been here since 2018, so >> 8 years now.
>> Mhm.
>> And it's just taken so long to get the green card and it's really annoying if you know what I mean.
>> I have some idea.
>> And I the only thing I find unfair is that people come here and they're like they don't follow the rules if that makes sense.
>> Yeah. I I I can I can hear you're saying it's unfair that illegal immigrants don't follow the rules and and you're well you're trying to.
>> Yeah, if that makes sense.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I I hear you. I hear you.
But it'd be a you know, if we're going to extend that analogy about the green stuff, it'd be a little bit like me saying to a youngster like, "No, I had to hide in the alleyways when I was 21 and doing this and you know, all of that." Like, "You should have to suffer, too. I don't really like the argument."
You know, like I'm very sorry that it's it's difficult for you. I really am. I feel for you. like like that's that's that's part of the whole reason I'm like really really working on like um like preaching about like this two-pronged approach of dealing with the illegal immigrants that we have here in a way that is humanitarian and sensible for the country and the economy and for public safety and all that stuff. Um and then separately we need to reform the the immigration system because it shouldn't be that hard. Shouldn't take you 8 years to get a green card especially if you're coming from a country like England that has good documentation of its citizens. I can understand if you're coming from a place where there isn't good documentation, the process maybe being a little bit more complicated or longer longer probationary periods, that sort of thing. If I designed the system, I might consider those sorts of things. But if you were like a taxpaying citizen who lived in a city in a country, you know, like we should just be able to be like, oh, he doesn't commit crimes. Cool.
Like, you know, that's how we do it with citizens, right? Some of us are criminals and we don't know it yet, but can't arrest people for things they haven't done. Um anyway, uh yeah, I just I I want it to be better for you and I want it to be better for them. And they chose a different approach than you did, but I think you two are closer to each other in terms of what your experience has been like than than most people would give you credit for. They just are on the other side of the line of deciding to quit commit a misdemeanor.
Maybe you had some privilege that meant means you get to, you know, not do commit the misdemeanor out of desperation. Maybe that's some privilege that should be checked. David, One Piece lover. I don't think that this is [ __ ] David. I think this is a different David. So, be chill, chat. Let's not jump the gun on that.
>> Hello. How are you?
>> I want to talk.
>> Yeah, I'm 20 23 years old.
>> 23.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> I want to talk about the latest I want to talk about the latest ones. Um the one that have been happening the last days.
>> Are you a Trump supporter?
>> You're kind of over. Okay.
>> Are you >> Sorry, I hit expand instead of disconnect. Just looking for Trump supporters. Uh real_nyc.
Maybe he's a Trump supporter. Um, oh, Chris, thank you for the $25 on Venmo. I really appreciate that. What do we got?
>> Tell that last caller that now illegal immigrants could uh Oh, hold on one second. I got to read the rest of this message cuz $25 is pretty good donation.
That buys some stuff. That uh that buys some production work. That buys some timestamping. Uh illegal immigrants could be shot by ICE like Sebastian and Michigan because they are brown. Yeah.
Yeah. [ __ ] problem. Uh are you are you driving a car? What's all this noise?
and pull it over.
>> Call back after you've pulled over and disconnected your Bluetooth cuz both are an issue for the show. We're going to talk to Julia.
Hello.
Hello. How old are you? Nope. She left.
We're going to talk to Austin Taylor 6671.
Hello. How are you?
Hello.
Fishbowl. People in the fishbowl.
People teleporting down the road trying to call into Tik Tok live. Don't do that. Remember the guy who called in and said that he had watched thousands of videos of ICE protesters and he knew that we were all violent and then I was like trying to do the math on how he watched thousands of videos of protest footage inside of like 18 months and he said that he did it while driving.
Do you guys remember that?
The things people these callers say the darnest things. Um they they uh when you ask them, "How did you learn that? Why do you think that? Why is that a defensible position?" They're like, they just start making [ __ ] up. They just start like, you know, they just start flailing. Um uh Brillain says, "Uh Oscar, I'm ill, but this live makes me feel better." I'm glad it does. Um, I know it gives, you know, it's like I try to keep the episodes rather varied and I try to like kind of respond to what's going on in the debate community in terms of like what people are like what your average caller is like. And I feel like I've been navigating that well. A lot of debate hosts are getting very frustrated with the inability to to get a serious caller. I'm kind of enjoying it. Like I mean it's it's a bad thing, but I'm kind of enjoying the like the shtick these couple of weeks. Like today, have we had one camera turned on today? How many people have I asked? Do we have gotten like half a dozen? Right. half a dozen calls that could have just wasted all of our time for a half hour if for those of them for them to just continue saying that like whatever the guy was [ __ ] saying that women shouldn't vote or something like why am I going to [ __ ] take that seriously in 2026 with somebody who isn't going to turn their [ __ ] camera on. It's ridiculous. It is ridiculous. I'm not interested in doing it. Um we've got ah Ri has pulled over. You can tell me if I'm pronouncing his name correctly and remind me how old he is cuz I forget from the first time I asked. How old are you?
61 from Massachusetts and I'm a Harris supporter. I just have a quick comment.
>> Super quick.
>> Super quick. So, every of these people who bring up Renee Good. Uh, the perpetrator fired three times at point blank range in the side window. I just want somebody to explain to me how you can fire in a side window when you're being run over. That's my only comment.
Love your show. Keep doing what you're doing.
>> Appreciate you, Al. Yeah, it's And your audio was much better the second time, by the way. um above average audio the second time I would say. Uh yeah, I mean I was talking about that earlier in the show where Jonathan Ross like clearly violated the direct use and for use of force guidelines that exist from DHS. Um you know he wanted to you know and they'll get caught on such small things like I said that like I may have worded it wrong. It's possible the exact way I worded it the first time I said it was wrong. Police officers, law enforcement officers do not have a duty to retreat like generally but they do if a car is driving at them. They are supposed to get out of the way of the car before they try to shoot the driver. And the fact that he could have gotten out of the way of the car is evidenced by the fact that he did get out of the way of the car.
>> Um, may I interject with a little facteing?
>> Yeah.
>> Um, the Renee Good incident did have two bullet holes through the front windshield. Um, but at the time he was uh to the left of the front left panel.
The last uh shot, which was the kill shot. Uh, oh, can I say that?
>> I think you can say kill shot on the air.
>> Okay. um which was that one just in case uh was through the side window which was after the danger had been passed. So that's why generally we label that as uh un unlawful use of force cuz the danger had been passed.
>> Yeah. There there's there are a lot there are a lot of like um there are a lot of angles from which uh from which it's wrong. And uh like cuz at that point he'd already made a bunch of mistakes. He'd already violated the use of force guidelines by by pulling the trigger instead of just getting out of the way.
>> But but he was more fully out of the way when the third shot that that is the the final one that that the coroner said took her life.
>> There should also be a note in there that I'm pretty sure in 2013 ICE agents got retrained as a whole for their general practice of standing in front of vehicles in order to uh drive violent situations. Like they this has been addressed and retrained, but they clearly are still just doing it >> well. And they keep bringing up that Jonathan Ross had some prior time been drugged by a vehicle and then did get injured. Like that was real. Like he had to get stitches from that. And that I mean it's just hilarious to me that they think that that makes him sound like he's good at his job, >> right? Shows that he should not be on the job.
>> Yeah. Um Yeah. We're going to talk to Richard Merrick 921. And have we had a single serious conversation today? I can't even remember.
>> No cameras.
>> No cameras. No cameras today. I I would prefer to just not have to ask if somebody's like, "Hey, I don't know about all this Trump stuff or I don't know about all this nonsense you Democrats are saying." And I'm like, "Oh, it's not nonsense. What nonsense are you talking about?" And then we had a conversation about it where I'm like, "Oh, actually, no. We learned that from these people. They're pretty reliable on that stuff." Um, oh, you you know, you use this. I don't know if that's like all that reliable source. Like, we could do that. I don't need a camera on for that. Plenty of people are just here to learn. And a lot of people are are, you know, shy and they don't want to they don't want to be um, you know, outed for doubting maybe what their family or their community believes. But when somebody's up here confidently saying that women shouldn't vote, it's like I don't think confidence is your issue, buddy. I I I think I think consequences are the thing you're worried about. Um cuz you know, the First Amendment doesn't protect you from consequences in your life. It doesn't protect you from people stopping being your friend. It doesn't protect you from women refusing to talk to you. It doesn't it doesn't protect you from losing your job, for public saying something to the public that they they find reprehensible. I live with that weight over my chest. I I I signed up for maybe losing my job when I did this. I am very lucky that I did not lose my job. I got to quit my job when the show became profitable, but I there was little period there where I was worried about it. Um, but yeah, [ __ ] um [ __ ] get get in the queue. If you believe any of that reprehensible [ __ ] I do want to talk about it. Shelley K88.
Let's uh let's see if we got an interesting conversation.
Hello. How old are you?
>> Hey, I didn't mean to request in the chat for Shel. No big deal. She was probably double tapping away on the screen cuz if you double tap away on the screen, it's usually round about over here and the request button is right there for all the people in the chat. Do we have much opposition in the chat? I haven't been watching the Tik Tok chat very closely today. Um Mary, you're saying you sent me Oh, I must have just missed it. I'm sorry, Meredith. Um I just approved for lung transplants and I'm not sure if I want them, if this is what I'm going to do to live for. People being shot in the street in my community of the LGBTQIA and disabled community are under attack as well. Meredith, sorry to hear about your health. Lung lung transplant, that's [ __ ] scary. That's a that is a risky operation. So, I wish you the [ __ ] best. Um, if you get to the front of that line. Um, I guess you you have been you're approved. So, I really do wish you the best. But, yeah, I hope I hope you get to wake up and and breathe a fresh I hope you get to wake up and breathe a breath of fresh air in a better America than the one we're currently in. So, thank you. and Emily.
[ __ ] Emily sent me 50 bucks. Love you and Raven so much. Please split this with our queen.
Your show is fantastic. Keep it up.
>> Thank you.
>> You can hold me accountable. Why don't you write that one down so we don't forget when the show's done?
>> Get that sent your way.
>> W Staff W Jesse who's not uh not working today. Actually, Jesse probably is working today, just not right now cuz she's also doing editing stuff from home. Um, but uh yeah, I I I I am able to run a much better show with a little help from my friends. Uh, so I've hired some of my friends, so it's appropriate for me to command so much of their time because uh they they really do enough work that uh it's really changing kind of how I'm able to spend my time focusing on bigger projects and uh and all that stuff and uh popping into more lives. You guys have seen me pop on some more random panels lately. That's something I've wanted to do for a really long time. I just like uh haven't really like had the time to do it where I like finished the show and I just need to edit all the clips. We are still like dozen episodes behind on the clips or something. Uh but we're we're working through them faster now cuz the team has been trained on how to edit them and they're mostly autonomous. So I get to keep working on other stuff. Do social plans. Enjoy the sunshine. Sign up you die.
We talked to him like yesterday or something, but I don't remember what 20 was. He'll have to remind me. Also doesn't matter. We can always just start fresh. Hello. How old are you?
>> Hey, I'm 19. I I I was from yesterday's stream.
>> Hey, remind me which conversation was that one. I I I really have a hard time not mixing up.
>> The um immigrants coming from America.
>> Coming from America to where?
>> Yeah. To here.
>> Where where's here?
>> From like the border last stream.
>> What?
>> I don't know if you remember me.
>> I don't I don't whether it's a call yesterday or a month and a half ago.
It's all just a soup in my brain. You're saying illegal immigrants coming from or sorry, start over. What? Yeah. Uh, the reason I supported Trump was because he was stopping the immigrants from coming here.
>> Oh, yeah. Uh, well, we've kind of covered that more today. Are we going to jump back into that topic again? Why?
Why?
>> No. No. I just wanted to say like thank you for um like changing my mind essentially because like I did my own research.
>> Goodness. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, now I remember who you are. Sorry.
That was actually a very memorable conversation. I just it hadn't it hadn't um clicked for me that it was a it was a reasonably friendly conversation which is kind of rare on this show. I was uh hoping to hear from you maybe a little bit later on but um I basically to give it to the audience and please please tell me this is not exactly how you would you take her out Raven. I think she needs to be let out. Thank you. Um pardon my dog. She's uh she has figured out that barking at the producer gets her attention which is now something that she's getting because I don't want to interrupt the show. So we're dealing with that as a troubleshooting thing.
Might need a dog sitter for the show.
Anyway, um just to refresh the audience, please hold me accountable if I get it wrong, but roughly the argument I gave you is that we can look at things like data and recidivism rates and like different things to like really protect people from violent crime. And if you use that sort of really good reasoning we have about how to prevent serious crime, you just don't land on legal illegal immigrants as a group to go after. That that was like the broadstrokes of my argument, right?
>> Yeah. Essentially.
>> So, yeah, you're back up. What do you have you you've had a night to sleep on it? How you doing? Yeah, honestly I think like you you basically like debunked my whole reason for like supporting him and like I did my own research that night and you know I just came to the conclusion that like you know I shouldn't support him and that I should do more research and become a little bit more educated on politics in general and like that's it.
>> That's good to hear. Um, you know, I think that if you if I mean you we can look at this one particular issue about immigration, but I I remember what I said to you is that I hadn't given you much information. I I we talked about how many illegal immigrants you are there were which you didn't know and we talked about the population of the country which you didn't know and and I just talked about how they just don't commit very many crimes and I I didn't even give a source. I just said that there are studies. It sounds like maybe you went and looked at some cuz the the ones that say otherwise are like Facebook posts that don't with links that don't go anywhere whereas the the actual like government non-government organizations that study this stuff um and like even statistics coming out from like different like jurisdictions and places where there are a lot of legal immigrants just don't support the claim.
So I I I guess what's exciting for me is I kind of believe it like you know I'm asking you now but I think I'll believe your answer is like this is how you got to look at all the issues.
>> Yeah.
>> Every one of them. Cuz people are going to tell you [ __ ] about everything.
You shouldn't listen to me. You shouldn't trust me. I'm just a guy. I get [ __ ] wrong sometimes. You know I've got a whole team of people trying to keep me straight uh in terms of getting the facts right. So the the chat tends to light up pretty aggressively. Oh, I even forgot to have the Discord open. I bet people are freaking out at me over there for not being there. Um uh but uh yeah, you know, if if you take that sort of approach of like, all right, my I'm reasoning about this thing based on these couple of claims, if they're important, if you're really valuing it, just really really make sure that those claims are true before you bother reasoning about it. Cuz logic works the same way as like AI. [ __ ] in, [ __ ] out. You know, if you give if you if you start with bad information, no amount of reasoning is going to make what comes out at the end reasonable. if it's right, it's right by accident.
Broken clock being right twice a day, you know. Um, so that's exciting to hear. Um, and I, you know, I'd love for you to keep calling in and talking. We can do it now if you have a topic you want to discuss, but you're always welcome to come up and just like parse some of this [ __ ] out cuz it is, it is very productive to just sit and like, you know, try to try to get an understanding of of of why it is you you feel a certain way about a particular issue cuz we didn't talk about anything other than immigration.
>> Yeah.
But you know that was like one of the main reasons I like supported him because you know all these people are coming in and doing violent crimes but you know it's not that many people when you look at like the entire population in general like what you said before like like most of them crimes are being committed by Americans themselves and not the immigrants.
>> Well and and just and by a degree that's not just accounted for by the fact that there are more of them. They are just it's more proportionally. And yeah, I think that if we're going to spend money, like if I had, you know, 10 billion to spend on like preventing violent crime, you know what, it might be unpopular cuz it wouldn't be a fast fix. Like if I had 10 billion to prevent rapes, I think I might invest in sex education programs.
I think that would prevent more rapes than giving $10 billion to police officers.
>> I just I that that's that's a it's a bit of an archair reckoning. Yeah. I just think that when I read about violent crime, when I read about um like personal accounts of people, there's a book by John Crackour called Missoula that I like that's about rape culture and college campuses. And he used Missoula, Montana as an example. And something so heartbreaking about it is that I I was able to sympathize a little bit with the perspective of some of the criminals described in that book, which is horrible. People don't want you sympathizing with rapists, but we got to we're going to solve that as an issue.
Um, and a lot of the ways that they talked about what they did, a lot of the times they didn't even realize what they did was as wrong as it was. It's just stuff that um, it's just stuff that doesn't happen to people who have better sex education cuz they understand how the, you know, if they understand how the hardware works, they're a little less likely to cause damage to it. You know, if they know if they know how consent works, they're a little less likely to to fail to be considerate in a way that's that crosses that line of consent. Um, you know, there's there's things that we can teach people that that make that make them better. I'm kind of just rambling now because I have your attention and uh I I'm I'm kind of just meandering, but uh but yeah, um knowledge is power, man. That's the moral of the story, right? If you want to if you want to be a bulletproof uh >> a bullet, you know, if you want to be bulletproof in a conversation about this stuff, just make sure that you say stuff that's true and go from there.
>> Yeah.
>> All right. Well, thank thank you for having me on. Um, if you know if I have any more topics I want to discuss, you know, I'll come to you first things first.
>> Yeah. Yeah, please do. Yeah, maybe this time I'll I'll uh I'll you know what?
I'm actually going to give you a follow and that just that'll just help me that'll just help me remember who you are. You'll show up as a friend if you show up in the in the in the guest queue. Um just makes it easier to for me to remember and the mods I think the mods will surely remember this one. But uh I do really appreciate your time.
It's a breath of fresh air on this show.
>> Thank you for having me.
>> W guest. to be guests for listening. So, I do think what I do mean it when I say that I think that a lot of Trump supporters wouldn't be Trump supporters if they just had like an hour with me, but you can't force somebody into a captive conversation and you can't force somebody to be genuine and the people who just aren't listening and are going to keep regurgitating the same bad arguments even though that I've maybe refuted them multiple times on my show. Um, but no, I think that I think a lot of people are more reasonable than that. I think that caller was more reasonable than that. He had a reason and I just brought it. I just, you know, I just I I got got to the bottom of it quickly cuz he let me instead of gish galloping onto some other [ __ ] or whatever all these different uh all these different tactics. Jack Herrera says, "What is a woman? What does it [ __ ] matter, dude? Who gives a [ __ ] shit?" Um, don't advertise your GoFundMe in my [ __ ] chat.
Don't do that. We'll say I get a lot of requests from people just to like promote mutual aid and I guess that's maybe why I don't get the like I get the criticism of not like doing it but it is just more like it's very bad for your social media accounts for you to hawk other people's good GoFundMes. Like it is just it's a grenade to dive on in terms of engagement.
Just I'm just I I'm I'm work I'm cooking on something a little bigger than helping people with their GoFundMes.
Sorry everybody for not cannibalizing my following for that. But we'll talk when I've got 10 or 20 times the following I have right now. Snow Ghost Customs.
Wonder what he makes. Wonder what he customiz customizes. Hello. How old are you?
>> 38.
>> 38. You support Trump?
>> No, I'm a friendly. I was just going to make a statement real quick about the John Cracker you just mentioned.
>> Yeah, go ahead.
>> Yeah, I'm actually from Montana. Uh, and when he came out with that book, like the whole state was like in shock because Missoula is like the big liberal college and college town in the state.
>> And everybody was talking about it. It was like a big thing and like got dissected over a period of time in the whole state, I think.
>> And it was pretty enlightening to see that how terrible it was up there. But I just wanted to say that. Well, yeah, I appreciate your insight from just like local, but I'll remind you of something that may have gotten lost in the news cycle when the book came out. So, I believe it was in the preface of the book that John Crackour clarified. Um, for anybody who doesn't know who John Cracker is, he's like the Into the Wild guy, not the not not the guy, not Christopher Mandalas, the imbecile who got himself killed in the wilderness in Alaska. The guy who wrote about him, John Crack, the guy, the into thin air guy. He both wrote that and was involved in that Everest disaster in 1996. that guy did a report on rape culture in Missoula, Montana. And and as the caller pointed out, uh a very like liberal like college uh campus type space or like college town type type space. Uh but the but the preface of the book is clear. It says this isn't special about Missoula.
The reason he was in Missoula is because there were some high-profile cases that kind of had the news cycle paying attention to rapes in Missoula. So he went there and did some reporting on it to like he he it's a little bit like me talking about the ways in which I farm engagement openly. He was like, "Yeah, I could have gone to any college town. I went to Missoula because I was around Missoula. So I could put Missoula on the cover of my book and people would buy it. Um, so I could put Missoula on the story and people would read it. Um, but the benefit of doing that is that it's a snapshot that people get to look at. But he was very clear that it's nothing special about Missoula. It's college campuses. It's not, you know, Missoula is kind of a red state, but it's kind of a blue kind of a blue city. But like that it's that's not anything about that. It is it is just young dumb [ __ ] people who end up doing really [ __ ] terrible crimes because um we don't pay enough attention. We're so averse to the idea that somebody who is a terrible criminal didn't have to be a terrible criminal that we're like like I get in trouble for being sympathetic to somebody and mourning the fact that they didn't have an education that that prevented them from doing that terrible thing. And they're like, "Oh, you want that monster walking free?" And it's like, "No, I want him to have not grown up to be a monster. Um I'm an educator."
you know, like that's that's what I want. I want I want to give I want to equip people with the skills for life that they need to participate in a way that's not so that's not so horrible for other people. Um cuz yeah, we're always sex crimes are one of those things we're always going to have in a prosperous society. You know, we're not going to have we might we might get UBI. Oh, I'm I'm I'm restricted for for harassment and bullying. Oh no. Oh no.
Uh, do I restart restriction for 10 minutes at 11:24 with 36 minutes left in the program? What do you think, mods?
Let me know. What do you think?
Um, Kronos said, uh, $5 for Oscar uh, playing Wacka Troll today. Name stolen from Kbrand, but I guess it's not stolen cuz I got permission and gave credit, but still. Yeah. Yeah. Wacka troll with the with the silly arguments. uh restricted for educating the masses more like I appreciate that. 36 minutes remaining. Uh probably not going to let the show run long today unless something very interesting happens just cuz I have some evening plans. Oscar has social life. We're going to talk to Frankie fights during the restriction. So we're going to muscle it out. We're going to tough it out. YouTube, you guys are unaffected. May maybe today YouTube peaks above above uh above the Tik Tok viewership for once. We're getting pretty close. Frankie fights, how old are you?
>> I'm 39.
>> Okay. Appreciate you turning on your camera. Are you a Trump supporter?
>> Hell no. But you you didn't have anybody on here and I was going crazy in the comments with people cuz I just want to know, >> will you continue to call this place America or will you use United States? I think it's important that we not use that misnomer.
>> Um, I am going to give some push back. I think there are more important things to discuss than this.
>> People would say that about pronouns, too. Someone in the comments said, "Yeah, but we've always called it that."
Yeah, we used to call black people all kinds of nwords. Should we continue to do that? America is a continent or continents. America is a concept. It's an imperial concept. It's a dream. It's a fantasy. And I feel like we should use the right word to call this place. I feel like language is important if we're going to push on other language.
>> I value I value like what happens with the euphemism treadmill. You're familiar with that phrase, right?
The what? Euphemism. What?
>> The euphemism treadmill.
>> No, I don't think so.
>> Uh, what's just what you were describing is that there's a time where somebody who like I don't even want to say the word, but if somebody were to refer to an African-American as a uh neg um there was a time where that was just appropriate to say. Like that might be the least racist person that existed in 1955. Least racist white person might say that in 1955. And that'd be and then you know it's his kids who are saying, "Dad, don't call them that anymore.
They're called black people." or maybe they say they're called blacks or something like that and then it's that kid's kid who says no it's people of color African-Americans right so that's the euphemism treadmill and what happens it's it's this interesting psychological linguistic thing where um when you have a word that is not necessarily negative it gets used by people who do have a negative claim about that group and because of those people using it builds an association with hate and that's the euphemism treadmill so so I recognize that that's just a thing about how society works. Sociologists and linguists study this sort of thing. And the thing that's important to me about respecting the euphemism treadmill and not just saying it's silly and that we should still be calling them those more antiquated terms cuz I could have gone farther back with my examples. I think we all know, right? Um the the reason I so value that is because the psychologists are actually sure that that when words find themselves falling off the euphemism treadmill, there's this psychological thing that happens where the where the to the people that find them offensive, the word starts triggering a part of the brain that's different than it otherwise would. In the same way that a curse word might trigger your brain in a way that uh a different word maybe wouldn't, which is why I think it's fair to have decency rules in certain spaces. Uh, I do say curse words on this show, but I do it in awareness of the fact that I'm exercising a little bit of mind control.
When I say [ __ ] instead of something a little less extreme, I'm controlling your brain. I'm making you have like a slightly amagdallic response and I pepper my speech with that intentionally. And the euphemism treadmill is the result of people respecting the fact that even if the word has reasonable meaning, maybe it just hurts people's feelings in a way.
Maybe it rubs them in such a way that it's time for it to fall off the euphemism treadmill. So, the reason I wanted to give that background, if that all makes sense to you, >> Sure.
>> Um, is cuz what you're suggesting is that America needs to fall off the euphemism treadmill. And I don't think that we can I don't think that anybody can decide that it's time for an argument for for a word to fall off the euphemism treadmill. I think there needs to be an argument for that word having the psychological effect that I've described. Um, >> yeah, it's just going to happen. I mean, like through like somebody said, "Well, why don't you travel somewhere else and and say that?" Well, I have I was in Costa Rica and somebody asked me, "Where are you from?" And I said, "America."
And he's like, "That's hilarious. I'm from America. You mean the United States?" And I never forgot that moment, you know? And so like how you're saying it changes like I've now changed how I see that word. I don't think of this country. I don't think of this American dream. Like I said, it's a concept to me. It's not a place. And so the same way now I don't call women girls. I don't call Hispanic people Spanish. Like I feel like if we're doing it with pronouns and many of the other terms that we use, I feel like we could be doing it with America too because it's just it's an imperialist [ __ ] that we're saying, you know, that like we're running around. It's like it's this where we think we're we're the leaders of the world. And so if you if you're not that guy, I feel like you can change the language. You could be part of changing it. That's all.
>> Right. Right. And and I I I guess that's probably where the common ground is going to be because it sounds like it rubs you wrong in that way. And maybe I'm learning that and and maybe maybe that's a vote in favor of it eventually falling off the euphemism treadmill.
>> I'm trying to make it fall off.
>> Yeah. I I will say though that also context matters because there's like a like you're familiar with um like code switching. Do you know that? Like >> Yeah. I do it myself >> for the for the audience. I don't talk like this all the time. There's not always a thousand strangers trying to cancel me. I I I got even more of a sailor's mouth when I'm with my friends.
Maybe a little bit less when I'm talking to my mom on the phone. maybe a little more when I'm talking to my grandma on the phone because she a baddie. Um, you know, like like like we all we all have different ways of speech. So, so the reason I bring that up is because there's this context thing about how like I wonder I can't sit here and be sure, but I feel like I feel like maybe I wouldn't use America if I was talking to somebody who wasn't from America cuz I recognize that the way that people use the words is a little bit context driven. Um, and I and I have areas where that's like much more um specific, you know, like when I talk about something like music, it really makes a difference what words I use if I'm talking to a musician or not. Um, >> just to make sure I'm I'm heard or like, you know, when somebody like when when somebody who's not a musician says that somebody's tonedeaf or they're singing out of key or whatever it is, it's like sometimes somebody says something singing out of key and I'm like, no, they're in key. Those are just still the wrong notes. like they're they're singing if you know your music maybe they're singing on the one instead of the the the major or minor third to give that chord quality to the power chords they're singing over or something like that. So I, you know, it there there there comes grace with accepting the fact that the euphemism treadmill doesn't become obvious to everybody all at once. And it is most important to successfully kicking something off the end of the euphemism treadmill that we accept that. Which is why when I have like a 57year-old caller who refers to an African-Amean or African-Americans generally as like the blacks, I correct it, but I'm not going to jump down their throat and be like, "You're a racist piece of shit." Whereas if like a 22year-old says that, I'm like, "Buddy."
>> And I've heard you say that before, too.
Like there are certain terms that are being used and I'm like, I'm not correcting it because you're speaking to people who if you use a different term, they might just get lost in the conversation. They might not even know what you're talking about. But I just hear so many journalists and so many influencers and people who are studying these things and it they're using the same language and it's just like it's I I've it sounds so antiquated to me. I hear I hear negro when I hear America like that. I hear people referring to women as girls as that. You know, I've changed how my brain sees it. So now when I hear America, it just sounds weird to me. But anyway, there maybe you got more people in the line. I I agree with 92% of what you say. So >> Well, see, and that's the beauty. Like we can have a little disagreement about like how irked by this word you are. And you're not, you know, there's there's a lot of English speakers on the planet. I can't weigh your opinion about this like more than everybody else's, but I can weigh it accordingly, especially in consideration of the fact that you understand a bunch of this other stuff and are are like interested in in valuing it. It's a better way to make an argument of the sort that you're making than to call me an [ __ ] for having America on my sign instead of uh United States.
>> No, absolutely not. Because you have to have these conversations. Like I'm in I'm in Montana right now actually. I'm traveling. I'm from New York and I'm out here trying to through my travels. I'm trying to have difficult conversations with people and I love seeing you do it too because some people are just looking to argue and those there are others of us who are looking to actually see justice, actually see change, actually see a peaceful future, you know? So like we're who the hell is going to agree on everything? This is great to have these conversations.
>> Well, yeah. And there's there's like ways in which I like okay one thing that's happening right now is that you're I think you mentioned it earlier and and it's coming up in the chat a little bit that like girls is falling off the euphemism treadmill as a way to refer to people who are like you know women. Um and I I think that there it's for good reason. I think I think that the right has really in particular lately weaponized the infantilization of women through the use of the word girls.
But I get corrected on it sometimes because like I broke up with my girlfriend a few months ago and I remember when I had more free time after >> uh uh just like getting getting the show more on its feet and hiring some people to run it. So I kind of got my evenings back. I remember something I it might have even been on the air or on somebody else's panel where I said, "Oh yeah, I've got my evenings back and you know I'm saying I'm ready to go chase some girls." And I meant it like >> I'm like what?
>> Yeah. Well, it's just >> How old are they?
>> Well, yeah. It's like it it's like well they were they were girls when I started using that phrase 20 years ago. Now I'm [ __ ] 30 and it's a little inappropriate. Um cuz they cuz of course I'm not talking about children. Of course, you know, I'm just talking about going on, you know, going on a nice going on a nice date or something or um you know, going going and going going and singing some karaoke in the bars and meeting some other musicians or whatever whatever, you know, like um to me to me that that phrase means something very very innocent. But I but I so recognize that that that girls in particular is something that's dropping off the euphemism tread uh treadmill in faster than boys is because of the nature of the situation. We were just talking yesterday about how the rules can be unfair if we're unfairly uh benefiting the less advantaged group. Yay, John RWS is my ethical standpoint on that. Cuz like I might say, "Oh, what am I doing tonight? I'm having some beers with the boys."
which like >> right but I would but not but having a conversation you would have been like I I met this boy the other day if you said I met this boy the other day you think of a child >> right right then there's people who would point out that it's mildly sexist that I'm having beers with the boys anyway and I might come back and be like h you know the thing about that is that when I have a beer with the boys most of the boys in my life don't happen to be boys. We've got Raven who's who who's who's a transwoman uh who's in the room right now being my producer. And we've got Jesse who I spend a lot of time with who's a musician I work with, but like colloquially in this antiquated maybe problematic sense. They they these are people who register to me as like the bros, the the you know the the friends, the group, the the the thing. So like there's all this sexious language baked into the way that we speak English. And I'm perhaps more guilty of it than >> Mhm.
>> I I know. I hate it. I want to just get rid of gender alto together. I'm like people or >> right >> maybe I I'm I'm I'd love to think about new ways that we can use language. I can't I despise when people say, "Well, that's how we've always talked." That's that's a poor excuse. Poor excuse.
>> Yeah. Okay. Wait, hold on. There's an interesting one in the chat from one of our regular donors cuz I'm just kind of like interested in picking your mind on this cuz I I like linguistics and I and I this is a this is I don't I don't care what it does to the viewer show. This is an interesting conversation. This is the Oscar Quinn show, so I make the I make the decisions here. How do you feel about boyfriend and girlfriend?
>> Well, when you just said girlfriend and so it's like, okay, that's a term. So, I was think as you said it, I was thinking woman, my old lady. I mean, there's so many different ways.
>> But to me, to me, my woman is more problematic than girlfriend because the possessive component of that is worse than the infantilization. Because >> when you said my girlfriend, either way, there was my there was a possessive.
>> Oh, sure. Yeah, you're right. See, like I'm not even aware of this stuff as I say it because I just speak I speak the English I speak. But we have to we have to call attention to these things and it and and it can take time to get over. I really really preferred partner. I've always preferred partner. I had a long-term relationship where partner was obvious and with the previous person that I dated, it was kind of nice where like we almost like elevated. But to me in my vocabulary like partner means something much more serious than boyfriend or girlfriend. Like I can I can >> sure I would say it's more serious. And I feel like people when you say partner they assume like are you are you queer?
Are you talking about, you know, for me?
Are you talking about another one?
>> I think she got a phone call. That's my That's my hypothesis on the teacup.
Phone call.
>> I got I got cut off. I I have a timer on my on my TikTok.
>> Oh, yeah.
But like girlfriend like so that doesn't bother me but it's just the idea of because like you said I think it's the matter of seeing a woman as a child and men do not respect many of the opinions of women and children and so I just feel like they see me as a child and that's why they call me girl or like you said it has to do with age. When you were saying the word girl you were talking about girls. So when grown men are referring to girls as being sexy it sounds crazy in my mind. And so I have already changed how that is in my brain.
And so I'm just hoping other people will come along. So people like, "Oh, I bet you're so fun at parties." Well, that's why I don't go to a lot OF I thought they fixed that [ __ ] Yeah, it's like a new What in the world is that? It's like a Tik Tok [ __ ] thing.
They're going to They're going to damage our [ __ ] hearing. Dean was complaining about he wears in-ear monitors which are sealed and like Oh my god, that must [ __ ] hurt. These are shitty open ear cans. Like, oh, it's so [ __ ] loud.
>> Why does it do that?
>> I don't know. Tik Tok pushed a thing.
The volume's on it too high. The music is copyrighted, so I probably had to, if you're watching this on YouTube, you might not have heard what just happened cuz the music [ __ ] copyrighted and I have to cut it out of the show. Uh, Tik Tok, fix your [ __ ] I intentionally didn't turn it off cuz I thought it would be funny if it happened a couple more times on the show. So, I was just talking about how I'm honest about the engagement baiting, right? Um, saying, Oscar, >> I don't know what that's telling us.
Maybe we're not we're not saying the right things.
>> All right, I All right, I'm going to say mods permanently ban anybody who sends me that $2 gift that causes that to happen. Um cuz I don't want to have to restart and re and get rid of the settings with 20 minutes left in the show. Um >> do you have anybody else lined up? I don't want to. No, no, no, no. And and we're Well, okay. Here. Is that cuz there was like a couple other things I wanted to I wanted to like like >> before we move on from the girlfriend uh boyfriend, can I uh offer something?
This is the uh transwoman producer. Um >> Yes, please.
>> Uh in my experience as an adult uh dating, I say that I am dating a person until they are serious enough to call them a partner because I also agree that partner implies some sort of commitment and just boyfriend girlfriend sounds so high school. So I just say that I am dating this person.
>> Yeah, agree. Sound very mature. removes obsessiveness as well.
>> I'm dating a person. Yeah. It's not my so and so. Yes. I love that.
>> Um >> I love it.
>> Yeah. Well, and >> I'm also so I have to figure out like name things for all these different people.
>> Well, and there's there's also just these other contexts where like you know there there I don't like say it so much anymore, but for a long time I called like this kind of end of the show where like I'm not super concerned with getting viewers or whatever and like I kind of just let the friendly calls happen. Like I I would call it the just us girls hour mostly cuz it offended the chuds and it made them feel excluded which Right. Okay. So why do you love that? Cuz I also love it.
>> Yeah. I mean because it's it's endearing. It's warm. It's an expression you know. It's like it's not it doesn't have the same connotation as I think when someone is seeing an individual woman as a child. I don't know. I I haven't I don't know why it has that distinction in my brain.
>> Well, and I I >> there's people who don't like that term either or like or like to refer I don't say you guys to a group of women anymore. That sounds crazy to me. Like I've just changed the way I hear that, you know? And so that's why I think it's also helpful to speak other languages because you learn that there's different ways to refer to groups. You find languages that are not gendered in this way or that are even more gendered, you know? So, >> yeah. And well, every now and then people come at me for like potentially co-opting language of the LGBTQIA+ community. And that's like kind of a little bit of what's happening when I say the Just Dress Girls Hour. Um or like I, you know, it was people were conflicted on this clip that did pretty well of me talking to Kenzie, a rather well-known pickme girl who, you know, Trump female Trump supporter who's got some really internally conf, you know, contradictory opinions about stuff where like when I was pointing out those contradictions, I had this like frustrated moment where I was like, "Girl, have a spine."
Um, which I think that everybody knows that like >> saying girl in that context is me actually trying to like I'm on her team when I say that. Um, though I also like this is the one time I will ever really pull the card cuz I like to just recognize that like most of the time I walk around like carrying white male privilege. Um, you know, pretty hardcore uh on that on that white male privilege when you look like me. But like I don't 100% entirely identify completely as straight. I'm only ever romantically interested in women, so it feels very unimportant to me in my life. But like, I don't know. I have moments in my life of feeling like I'm just one of the girls hanging out with the girls, whatever. You know, whatever that opposite maybe different social experience is than hang, you know, hanging with the boys. Even if it's even if it's the even if it is just like, you know, Raven, even if it is just you, me, Sam, and Jesse, it's like whether it's just us boy, like whether it's beers with the bros or just us girls, really just depends on what we're getting up to. That's my That's the That's the That's the way I feel about it.
>> I I feel like you're the only one that says bros, but we always say it's the girls are the CQ.
>> Jess Well, yeah, that's that that's that particular group. Jesse definitely says bros.
>> That's fair. Okay, that's fair.
>> Yeah, >> I like bros. That works. I don't know. I gay men call me [ __ ] all the time and I'm just like, I DON'T KNOW IF I like that [ __ ] And I'm like, >> well, okay. No, no, no.
>> Everybody assumes as a trans woman that I would be offended by bros, but I actually I don't. I don't care. you know, you know, it's the intent that it's used.
>> She she pickles saying, "Hey, hey girl," in the chat cuz Yeah, cuz we use that kind of a language around each other again, which is like it's almost in in a way to combat like the meaningfulness of that type of language to to to you know, yeah, everybody's going like sup we It's complicated. I think I think I think it comes down to it being complicated and and really like caring about like it's important to care about what people mean when they say what they mean. Which is why I ask people when they mispronounce Kla Harris. I I'm like, "Do you are you doing it on purpose or not?" That's really the only thing I care about because if you're doing it on purpose, [ __ ] you.
>> Definitely think they are.
>> If you're doing it if you're doing it like by mistake, like maybe try harder, but like it's not that big a [ __ ] deal. Um in my opinion, um that's mostly mostly just my opinion. Um >> you think it's that big that big of a deal that they mis mispronounce your name? Well, it's then if they're if they mispronounce it and they and they accept the correction and then they say it the wrong way again 5 minutes later accidentally, like I'm not very mad at that person, but if somebody's like, "Fuck it. I'll call her Cameltoe. I don't care." I'm like, "All right, dude." Like, she was vice president and she didn't rape anybody. I don't think you have a good reason to call her a funny name. People are like, "Oh, you call Trump funny names all the time."
I'm like, "He's a rapist. has nothing to do like I yeah he I normally I'd say respect the office but but he he's a disgrace to the office and so I have good I have good I have good answers for why I I treat him with such disrespect and I just don't think that any of the things that people say when I say why are you treating Kla Harris with disrespect is in any good reason if if one of the chuds were to say because she hasn't done she didn't do enough about all those kids being bombed in Gaza I'd be like [ __ ] okay w guess call her call her whatever you want you found the right answer Um, but no, that's not what the Chuds are thinking when they call her Cameltoe or Camala or whatever they call her. Um, but uh, yeah.
>> Yeah, they're doing it they're doing it intentionally. And so I think telling them directly like, "Hey, you're not pronouncing her name right, that never works." But if we pronounce his name wrong, like not not I not call uh the orange man what he is, but just, you know, he's Donal Tromp, you know, and I just keep saying it like that. Maybe it'll cuz his family name he he forget who it was. He he made fun of some politician for like changing their name when their family moved to Ellis Island or went through Ellis Island like 120 years ago.
I forget what exactly the story was but but that's where the drum thing came up cuz his old family name that got changed when they immigrated was Drumf super German name um became Trump >> cuz Drumf is not really super pronouncable to English speakers. So it became Trump. Um so yeah I like calling him Dr. because he I forget who it was.
There was somebody who he was misnaming for that reason. So I I like that one for him which is an answer to the question why I call him that. There's no good answer to call you know.
>> Yeah.
And he too he too comes from immigrants.
>> We all do.
>> And we all know it's just a microaggression when they do it to Kla Harris.
>> I guess well I guess what I'm pointing out is that it's not always a microaggression >> if it's intentional.
>> Yeah. If it's intentional. It's a it it it it's it's usually a microaggression when they do it the first time. If I point it out and they do it the second time on purpose, that's when it becomes kind of the conversation usually becomes actually aggressive at that point.
>> Um, >> I guess I should have heard her name so many times.
>> Yeah.
>> Sorry.
>> I mean, I will admit that when she uh became, you know, prominent on the like, you know, uh, nationwide political stage, like I found myself saying it the wrong way from just hearing it wrong so many times. I had people in my life correcting me on it. And I'm I am bet if there's hundreds of hours of me online.
I bet I have casually said it the wrong way on air and nobody noticed because it's just it's in there. It's like I took took a little work to correct it because I did just get it wrong when it became relevant like you know 8 10 years ago whatever it was um when I started learning about her when she started running. Um, but but yeah, it's it's that it's that intentionality, which is why like a lot of the time when people get mad at me for not correcting stuff like that, whether it's like I'll always jump on a misgendering. That's a little egregious. But like sometimes I let you know the Kla Harris misprononunciations slide or or whatever. But sometimes like the audience is like, "Oh, he said this.
You should stop that. You should say this." And I'm like, "No, no, no, no.
We're 8 minutes deep into a point that I'm like 2 minutes away from landing the plane on. I am not going to derail this thing I've been building in this conversation by getting hung up on her [ __ ] name. pardon me that I have two options in front of me. The other one is more important. Let's be real. Um, so sometimes >> and there's a time and place. There's there's a moment like maybe you can finish the thought and then maybe that's another point to make afterwards. Hey, it's respectful. You you're showing respect to someone when you learn how to pronounce their name properly. And if you don't learn how to pronounce her name properly, that means you don't respect her. And now we have to keep going down that.
>> Somebody's asking if it's becoming a friendly lab, but I think I think it might be. I should probably read the donations, but if Pickles or somebody wants to hop up, that's uh that's that's allowed. Uh, I will read cuz Emily sent me >> like you're changing Martins here. Do you feel like you're changing people?
Cuz I just heard your last caller and it sounds like he's a humble a humble man, a humble person, and that he actually went and did the research and is able to say, "Hey, >> I didn't have all the information."
>> We call that a live one around these parts. We got one. We got We got a person who's just trying to figure this [ __ ] out. I don't think this guy hates women. He's just confused. um or it was illegal immigrants in his case where I I I I just I just explained my thoughts on illegal immigration to him and he was like, "Holy [ __ ] I think about this wrong." And he called back in to say that he still was was on, you know, still on my team about it. Uh yeah, I think I think we're doing good work. I think that people um I think that people really uh I think that that these shows do change minds and I think that a a lot of what the show shows like these do is equip people to change minds. like like I might change somebody's mind in a moment, but the fact that there are people who spend a lot of time listening to me and really taking my worldview, which I think is just an effective one for for assessing this stuff reasonably, I you know, I'm kind of like preaching to my own choir in that sense where it's like, you know, I there's there's this like ethical school of fault of thought that is the way Oscar Quinton thinks about things. And in some sense, I'm starting my own little ethical corner of that discussion by, you know, building a following of people who understand how I look at these things. that's the sort of thing that could survive me because like I never mind me. I just try and be reasonable. So if I make more reasonable people and they admire that I did that like that's that's cool. Um but I think there's people you know people have all different approaches to this sort of thing. If I if I'm not effective for a certain person that's fine. The show's I leverage entertainment to get the show into people's ears. So if I'm not entertaining to some person maybe a different person will be. So I'm not trying to take personal credit for being good at it. But I think the debate space is helpful. A lot of people think it's just us sniffing each other's farts. But I think I think some important stuff happens on here.
>> But I'll read I'll read the >> Definitely helpful one by one. You're you're reaching people and then also like you said, you're giving tools to other people. Like I watch you. I'm learning stuff from you and and and seeing how you hold these conversations to help me hold these conversations better with other people.
>> Mhm.
>> And like, you know, what's the point?
Like I love that you have the arguments, but I don't think you're doing it just for the sake of arguing. Well, I mean, if I was, I wouldn't have had like a 20-minute linguistics conversation at at, you know, on my show with who this many people watch. But some people like it cuz Emily sent me $50. Not for me, she says. So, I can donate half to the Pupsitter fund and half to Jesse. Can someone please uh set me up on the Discord? Uh, make a note. 25 to Jesse and then 25 I guess we should actually start thinking about getting a dog sitter for the My dog has been disruptive of the show lately. Uh but uh then David sent five bucks to say uh how would we say American in this new way of speech? I'm a United States of American.
Good question from David.
>> I have been saying so I have been saying that United States of Americans in Spanish it's est right like a United States citizen. So that's why I said learning other languages there are different ways to say it. We don't have that word like what's the plural for you you guys or the possessive of you guys? You guys sounds ridiculous.
>> Well, as an as an as an East Coaster, you guys doesn't sound wrong to me at all. That sounds fine.
>> It's you.
>> Ridiculous. It's y'all. Y'all's I'm an East Coaster, too. I'm from New York. I never used to say like that's >> Well, no. Yeah. I'm from I'm from Manhattan, so I would say y'all. And then the people uh you know, people across the Hudson are saying like use and and it's like, "What do you mean use?"
[ __ ] people from Pennsylvania calling us yin. We're all over here like what the [ __ ] is this? Um, >> yeah, that too.
>> Speaking of regions, Garrett sent me 10 bucks. He said, "More love for Montana.
Keep up the great work." I appreciate you, Garrett. And >> yes, Montana is actually beautiful. I love it here. I'm in a small town. They got a a bookstore with the LGBTQIA plus, queer, black, trans, all that every in the window. They're doing drag shows out here and getting hate for it. I love it.
There's some people in little pockets of this place that are doing the work. I appreciate them.
>> That I was in Great Falls for 5 years.
>> Where's Oh, they're teacup. Where's Great Falls? That's >> Great Falls is kind of like dead centerish, a little bit to the east. Uh it's a big pit of nothing because that's where the nuclear missile silos were.
>> Oh, in Montana, right? Of course. Yeah.
>> Uh yeah. Uh uh Raven did some some maintenance and protecting of our nuclear missiles. Good job keeping that nuclear armament safe if they feel some guilt about it >> ve very much.
>> We didn't use them. We haven't used them yet.
>> I'm a big anti-war hit now.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say I am curious about I know so many um super left people uh personally and just watching them on on on on the internet and I'm like how does one balance that like having the politics you do now and having served in the way that you did?
I'm just curious to pick the minds of those people.
>> I definitely spend a lot of time uh denouncing American imperialism.
>> Yeah, >> that's American imperialism. I uh yeah, speaking of that sweet sweet American capital, sorry, United States of American capitalist dream, Toby sent me 20 bucks on YouTube super chat to say restriction buffer. He he get he gets it. He know he knows the restriction is a bummer. But anyway, uh I think we're past it. I hate milk sent another $5 to say bad habit. It's the Americas everywhere in the world. USA for us. Why we say America? Because we think we are all that matters. It's oldworld ignorance. Necrono said good bait.
You'll get you'll get over it soon enough though. I don't even know which bait he was talking about. I did some kind of bait. There is rage bait. I do I do rage baiting type things. $2. Thank you for that. Pat in the chat. I saw him say that he needed to proofread this one after he sent it. So, we'll see if we'll see if it's comprehensible. For five bucks, you said Oscar, I think you play the we got one sound from Ghostbusters when somebody demagies. We got one. Um Oh, man. Somebody sent somebody a music gift. Don't send a music gift. We will ban you if you send the music gift. Um what a >> Oh, that's that sound. Hell no. Please.
Yeah, it's like it's like a $2 gift and it it's it's not only disruptive of the show. It's like dangerous for our hearing for those of us who actually have cans on. Um >> that's annoying. They made it so cheap so that people could do it just to piss you off and interrupt you.
>> Well, okay. So, the the solution has been a lot of big streamers are just turning off gifts because uh uh Oh, yeah. The gift bait. Uh thank you, Kronos, for the extra $2. See, he sent me $2 without being noisy. Uh the um a lot of the big streamers have just turned off gifts. So, whatever blunder it was that they like made the volume so high or whatever whatever this issue is, somebody somewhere at Tik Tok is get has probably been fired or is getting a really serious lecture about costing them millions of dollars because a bunch of big streamers turned off their gifts, which like >> I'll be real for a second. Like I I appreciate the gifts of course on Tik Tok. Like I I try the bigger ones like the galaxies and up. I try to spot them and shout them out. But like for the most part, you guys may have noticed, I don't engage very much with the gift system on TikTok. I Here, hot take.
Tinfo hat time. I think it's a trap. I think that if you're like, "Guys, let's like hit that gift goal. We've got to get this many roses or whatever thing it is. It's I I think that the algorithm knows that you're begging your own fans for engagement instead of actually driving it." And I think that it's just I think you get caught in a rut of like trying to appease that. Whereas like I have been ignoring the gift goals much to the chagrin of my moderation team for months.
>> And I really really what it is is that I when I'm watching another person's show, there's two things that really piss me off and it's them disrupting the flow of the conversation to talk about a gift goal. And it's when the pinned gift thing like covers up the chat cuz I'm often in there like not able to see what it's just frustrating. It's just like it's a viewer viewing experience that I don't I don't like. Um, and then they're talking about the cut they take in the chat because yes, it is a lot. Also, if you want to send that that's the other thing a lot of the hosts don't >> they take they take a cut of it.
>> We love the Tik Tok shot. We're definitely not suggesting that people totally not suggesting that you go, you know, use Venmo, cash out, buy me a coffee or Patreon, especially buy me a coffee or if you're international cuz those are means where there isn't such a big cut if you use those things. Thank you. Um, but uh >> I don't know anything about these platforms. I got I'm about to be 40 in a in a couple months, so I I know nothing about these these platforms. This is my first time ever doing something like this on a Tik Tok live. I've never done this in my life.
>> Marl says, "Why is she still here?" Cuz it's the Oscar Quenton show and I [ __ ] say so. Um, >> people forget what the [ __ ] name of the show is sometimes. Holy [ __ ] Oh, Michelle, I did actually see you in the chat earlier. Michelle had something that she wanted to get in Edgewise, so we'll bring her up as a reminder. Just a few minutes left. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hang on just a second. Michelle, >> Tik Tok had a really great opportunity that they b that that they uh dropped the ball on here with these uh music gifts. If they would have put the we are Charlie Kirk song, do you know how many gifts would have been sent to Dean and Parker?
>> That would have been that would have been the epicst troll ever, but obviously not for us.
>> That would have been funny enough that I don't think I would have been upset about it. I just would have thought that that was [ __ ] funny.
>> That would be hilarious. Pat in the chat is back for $5.
>> Pat in the chat is back for $5 on YouTube super chat to say gift bait, but it's the brick from anchor man. Loud noises.
>> Um Michelle, uh what you had something you wanted to get in on this linguistics conversation. Is that right?
>> Yeah, I do. Thanks. Thanks.
>> And inform me quickly. I forgot to ask first. Sorry. How old are you?
>> I'm 44.
>> Welcome to the show.
>> Thank you very much. You're very kind.
I'm a I'm a longtime watcher now and and love what you do. Um, I'm a speech and language pathologist and uh, you know, very interested in in linguistics and I used to be, you know, sort of like grammar schmatzy, you know, like, oh, you know, that was important to me.
>> Descriptivist.
>> Yes. But I've since become educated on how language purity is so rooted in in white sup whit supremacy and how, you know, language and grammar are weaponized against people. And I recently had a conversation with a cousin of mine who was having issues with, you know, pronouns. Why would we use, you're a speech therapist, why would you use a plural for a singular person? And it was just so ridiculous to me. I said, "Have you ever said I'm nauseous?" And he said, "Well, yeah, of course." And I said, "Well, do you know that the real definition of the word nauseous is something that causes nausea?"
>> Yeah. You you're nauseated.
>> You're nauseated. You are nauseated by something that is nauseous. Language isn't mathematics.
Language evolves and changes and flows and develops. based on the human beings that use it. What matters is that we understand each other. You know, being a speech and language pathologist, speech is really the last thing on my list as far as how we are pronouncing or articulating things. What matters to me is communication. How are you communicating? For my little ones who have difficulty with speech, how are you using gestures? How are you using AAC devices? How are you using body language, facial expression?
Communication is what matters. And you know, language purity is is a real real it's a real issue. Well, and and the difficulty is it's it the I have to point this out all the time in these discussions because I'll get called a hypocrite for being like really particular about certain words definitions because there's a bit of a rule proving exception which is that we have a category of of language, technical language, where we actually are prescriptivists. Medical terminology is my favorite example. The cardiologist needs to know exactly what the [ __ ] the other cardiologist meant when they're having a conversation about somebody's ticker. And the way we do that is by going to school and demanding that certain types of words are defined in some very specific particular way. And then what you have is hateful bigots who call in and they think that because that type of attitude towards technical language is reasonable. They get to decide based on their feelings what words deserve to be treated in that way.
Which is that's where we get into this like dog whistley disingenuous territory of like you can just be angry about how societyy's using this word right now.
Uh, I mean like it's like the, you know, it's like trans women. At the end of the day, we could I like to denote whether we're talking about something semantic or not. And I just think that if we're going to have a category that includes trans women and cis women, a good name for the parent category is probably women.
>> Mhm.
>> Like just in a linguistic sense, that makes [ __ ] sense to me. Um, they're willing to call them trans women most of the time as opposed to cis women. And so again, just it's a word they have in common, but you know, they're not interested in any kind of a nuance conversation. But but sometimes the language becomes problematic and we have to try to like force a change cuz sometimes a technical term that the doctors use falls off the euphemism treadmill and then the medical community or whatever technical community has to do the work of removing that word from their language by force cuz they have to go update a bunch of textbooks. They have to make sure that everybody gets the memo who's working at the hospital.
They need to go into the schools and say, "Hey guys, we're actually switching this one because the racists [ __ ] it up or the misogynists [ __ ] it up or just, you know, whatever whatever thing it is that that that made the word fall off the music uh the euphemism treadmill >> that that's happening with us in in my AMP classes now. just completed massage therapy school uh for 2 years and a lot of the terms are and a lot of the parts of the body and processes are named after the white guys who supposedly discovered them and so now they're trying to change all of these names but it's too difficult to do that and who's going to change and and why are they named this and then people get into arguments like I had a whole argument with a guy over this you know and so I think that's much more complicated but I think I think we're talking about something a little bit different where we're I'm talking about the concept of America. This imperialist concept, this false dream, this idea of we are the center of the world as opposed to someone saying I asked you a question and me being like it's actually ask. It's ask. I wouldn't do that to somebody or I've learned not to do that to people.
>> And that's that, you know, >> I don't correct black people when they're speaking a a ve and even now they're saying the v. They want to take out the V because vernacular and that has roots and >> well when I when I when I when I learned linguistics it was called black English vernacular. So you know like there's the and >> and they're saying let's go back to Ebonics actually that's an endearing term. And so >> yeah so the euphemism >> some people don't want to be called Africanamean. They're like if I'm afraid without referring to the other to the white person as European American. So it depends how we use them. I'll call someone a girl if I call the guy a boy, you know, like I'm using the >> right >> the the similar term. So, >> well, it's all it's all you you seem to accept the nuance, you know, and that's that's the important thing. It's not accepting the nuance that that that is really truly problematic in these things. So, thanks for thanks for having a dorky conversation with me about linguistics, not what happens on my show every day. Uh, I am going to wrap up, so I'll invite you to to say your closer and then I'll clear the panel so I can do my outro. Thanks for placating me.
>> Appreciate you and thanks for hopping up as well, Michelle.
I'm going to let Michelle down. I don't think she knows how to unmute herself.
Uh Kantbot thinks that I'm running. Uh let's just uh let's just check really quick. I I I don't have time to debate, but let's just see how he Let's just see how he feels about calling in tomorrow and having a lengthy debate. You busy tomorrow 10:00 Central time.
>> Running away from debating me, Oscar. It seems like you're scared, right? To speak about this. I'm on panel right now. I'm on panel right now. Oh, you can do >> No, I was actually going to engage with that, but he's talking over me. He's not telling me how old he is. 10:00 Central time tomorrow. You have to have manners when you call in. I'll give you one more [ __ ] try. Start by saying how old you are, and then tell me if you're willing to call in tomorrow. I'd love to have a very long conversation with you.
>> You wouldn't talk to me like this in person, buddy. You're built like a stepped on Newport cigarette. I'm 25 years.
I don't think you've seen videos of me talking to people I don't like in person. I'm a lot less nice than I am on the air. Everybody, go to the link tree in my bio if you enjoy the show. Uh, Venmo cash app, buy me a coffee or Patreon if you want to support the show financially so I can pay my staff.
Raven, who's sitting in the producers chair today and Jesse who's working at home. Uh, show is getting bigger than me and that's very exciting. If you're international, uh, buy me a coffee works. We're going to see if we're going to talk to that particular disingenuous coward tomorrow. I would personally love to. I could have a Phil bro cookout tomorrow. Let's catch them all.
Everybody, that's been the Oscar Quinton show. [ __ ] What are we at? Oh gosh, I got to read the donations. Thank you.
Producer keeping me in check. Jazz sent five bucks to say, "Regarding the white supremacy roots of grammar policing, so much of MAGA calls Kamla uneducated just because she knows how to speak AAV effectively." Yeah. Never mind her actual [ __ ] academic record, which is very impressive. Anyway, uh that's been the Oscar Quinton show. [ __ ] 87.
We're coming up on 100. Is it 87 today?
Is that right? 100's going to be exciting. We got to do something special. Is that Does it fall on my birthday? I won't announce if it falls on my birthday cuz I don't want people to know exactly what my birthday is. My birthday's coming up. Will I take a day off? Probably not. I'll see you guys tomorrow 10:00 Central time. And we'll see if the Phil bro shows up.
I forgot to say goodbye to Tik Tok cuz I hit uh pause instead of end by mistake.
Whoops.
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