Would a U.S.-Iran peace deal help farmers in Sask.?

Added: 2026-05-31

[00:00:00]Well, right now the world is watching whether or not US President Donald Trump will sign a peace deal with Iran.

[00:00:06]Farmers in particular are paying close attention because the war did cause fuel and fertilizer prices to spike. I'm Lisa Gerinsky and today on Blue Sky, we'll get some analysis on how geopolitics is affecting everything. Spring seeding.

[00:00:20]Also, the latest crop report is out. 50% of the seeds are in the ground putting producers behind the usual average. And so we'll take a look at how things are progressing on farms around the province. If you're farming in Saskatchewan right now, tell us how spring is shaping up for you. How much uh do you have in the ground? What are you planting? And how has the global political climate changed, your costs, or what you're seating this year? 1 800 7162221.

[00:00:46]You can also email blue [email protected].

[00:00:53]Stuart Smite is a professor in the department of agriculture and bio resources. And Dale Epwitch is a policy manager with Sask Oil Seeds. So that includes canola and flax. And we've got both of them with us for the show today.

[00:01:06]Dale, welcome to Blue Sky.

[00:01:08]>> Well, thanks for having me, Lisa. It's good to be here.

[00:01:10]>> And then also Stuart, welcome to the show.

[00:01:13]>> Thank you very much, Lisa. Great to be with you.

[00:01:16]>> Great. Great to have you both.

[00:01:17]>> Again, you you two know each other well.

[00:01:19]So, >> yeah, we know each other. We actually come from a not too far apart in the southeast part of the province. So yeah.

[00:01:26]Yeah, we know each other.

[00:01:27]>> I think I'll probably just get out of the way for part of this conversation and the two of you can can chat.

[00:01:31]>> Stuart and I have opportunities to chat and and make use of it.

[00:01:35]>> Well, you had Blake you had Blake Bergland make the or recording of him make the Blake is actually from the same town I am. He's just a number of years behind me in school.

[00:01:44]>> Oh my goodness. What a small It's a small place. This province is small.

[00:01:48]What a day to have both of you on though because you know like I said at the start we're waiting to see if the US president will sign this this peace deal and we're already seeing reaction to this. So gas prices have dropped.

[00:02:00]Headlines are suggesting that you know the US and Iran moving closer to a peace peace agreement have it's immediately cooled off global oil markets. So gas in Regina right now 1539 1649 is uh the lowest in Saskatoon and lowest in the province is 1523 in York. So Stuart just your initial thoughts on where we're at in in this moment and how how closely egg producers in the province would be watching these developments.

[00:02:31]Yeah, certainly this is fantastic news for for the majority of farmers that in this province that are probably behind where they would be on a normal year in terms of seeding. So so these prices will have an immediate benefit to farmers because any of any fuel tanks that they're going to be filling up um with these lower prices, they'll be able to take advantage of them right away, >> which is definitely a different story than what we would have been talking about just a a few couple weeks ago, right?

[00:03:00]>> Absolutely. buying farmers buy a lot of fuel in bulk. So they're currently in a a really high use period. So it'll depend on each farmer how much of the the fuel that they've used. But yeah, it's good news that when the price drops for sure cuz then they can actually buy quite a large quantity of fuel.

[00:03:16]>> And would that be happening right now?

[00:03:17]You see the prices drop, you go out and buy a large quantity.

[00:03:19]>> Well, it depends how fast that the their fuel supply reacts to the to the price drop and what kind of a position they may have just filled up last week anticipating that the weather's better and now they can get at it. So, so they can buy a lot of fuel when they have the the the the the storage available, but if they just filled up, then they have to wait a little bit before they can start filling again.

[00:03:39]>> And then who knows what might happen.

[00:03:40]>> Well, they're going to be hoping that this lasts for a little while.

[00:03:43]>> Yeah. Do you think it will?

[00:03:44]>> Well, yeah, it could. I mean, there's the prices have been staying lower for longer than a lot of analysts have said, and there's been certain things that have have been leading to that. One is that they've been u taking the fuel out of the strategic petroleum reserve in the United States. So they've been adding to supply. China has reduced the amount of barrels that it's been buying over the last little while anticipating that eventually there will be a a settlement in the straight and then they can uh start to buy more fuel again. So so a lot of different groups in the world have been taking steps so that the price doesn't spike because we were hearing $200 a barrel and it hasn't gone anywhere near that. Stuart, just you getting back to that first question, I think farmers have always been paying very close attention to what's happening in global markets and and what's happening around the world, but but this particular moment, they're they're seeing good news right now, but in in general, how important has it been this season to to be paying attention to just how much volatility we're seeing around the globe right now?

[00:04:49]Yeah, that that's certainly I think something that's changed with current farming practices even more so than a decade ago, Lysa, that you know in a lot of cases farmers may have bought most of their input needs especially fertilizer you know relatively close to seeding but farmers are increasingly trying to spread that the risk of buying those big those big costly expenses out. Many farmers are buying during the winter. Others in the, you know, after they finished harvest.

[00:05:18]Some farmers I've talked to even are are purchasing a portion of their fertilizer needs once they're done seeding in July.

[00:05:25]So, so this may indicate as as if fert if we see some downward movement in fertilizer prices back to where farmers feel is a sort of a reasonable level, they may be um putting some contracts in place to to purchase fertilizer um as early as July.

[00:05:43]>> Before I ask Dale how farmers might be spreading out the risk a bit and purchasing fertilizer in different ways, Stuart, I'm I'm hoping you can just give us a bit of a fertilizer 101. I know you've been a very popular person appearing on several CBC programs to explain why the the closure of the Street of Hormuz has been such an issue for farmers here. So just just outline it for us for for anybody who's still not entirely clear how this impacts us.

[00:06:08]>> Sure. So so there's good and bad to this, right? So the the good news is that Canada does not import any fertilizer that would be impacted by the the inability to trans or transport through the straight of Hormuz. We do import fertilizer. A lot of it comes from the US. We do get a portion from uh Morocco and and North Africa. And then what we get out of Russia and Barus comes through the the Mediterranean. So none of the fertilizer input needs coming into Canada would be affected by this closure. It's farmers in India, uh, China, uh, throughout Asia, eastern side of Africa that would be affected just, you know, I've heard and seen reports in many of those countries. Uh, there just having to cut back on the amount of fertilizer they're using this spring or they don't have any to use. So, so that's going to be a problem throughout the this growing season. The problem for Canadian farmers is that because the fertilizer can't move through the straightfor the global price has gone up. you know, in the range of 25 to 30%.

[00:07:10]So, if farmers were having to rely on on maybe purchasing some additional fertilizer to to get them through um this season, they would be paying a a a premium, a much higher price than they would have done three or four months ago.

[00:07:26]>> And can you explain that the different types of fertilizer? Uh some people might think, well, we produce pod ash.

[00:07:31]What kind of fertilizer are farmers using? So, it's a blend of of potassium, um, phosphorus, nitrogen, and sulfur.

[00:07:41]And and every farmer is going to have a little bit of a different blend. So, depending on the the nutrient needs for their fields or the crop that they're putting on, that most farmers are getting a sample of their soil taken during the winter that tells them what nutrient levels exist in the soil. So, every farmer will use a slightly different blend of fertilizers to to seed a crop. So, you would use a different blend uh for a cereal like a wheat versus a canola or a chickpea crop depending on on what the needs of those crops are.

[00:08:17]>> So, Dale, what would you be using if you're farming canola or or flax? Well, canola takes quite a bit of fertilizer and you need to have the the components that that have been listed. You need to have nitrogen, you need to have phosphate, you also need to have sulfur which is a component another component and again we still we do produce sulfur in Canada but sulfur is another component which is actually stranded on in through on the other side of the straight of Hormuz. And so the world is is going into a a a shortage of that product. So, and canola is a big user of fertilizer.

[00:08:52]>> And how do you need much for for flax? I I'm not as familiar.

[00:08:55]>> Flax is a little different. It's uh it it hasn't got the same kind of uh um uh progress in genetics over the years. So, it doesn't produce quite as much as as canola did. Canola is a big user. Uh so, it wouldn't use quite as much fertilizer, but you have to fertilize it flax as well if you want to get a good crop.

[00:09:14]>> So, what are you hearing from producers?

[00:09:16]>> Well, you hear all sorts of things. It's the risk almost always. So farmers are incredibly resist resilient. Like they are not just sitting here, oh woe is me.

[00:09:26]What can I do? Like like somebody saved me. They are making actions all the time in terms of when they're going to purchase something, how they're going to purchase something, but they still are spending hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars to put in their crop. And that's a huge risk. So they really need to have a good year this year because the price of inputs have gone up and they're always as sort of as they say at the snap end of the whip.

[00:09:50]Other people are making other decisions in other parts of the world and it's at the farm level where that impact is the greatest >> and are you noticing a real shift from a decade ago the way Stuart points out?

[00:10:01]>> Well, Stuart's exactly right and that's what I was mentioning about uh about resilience. Those are the kinds of choices that farmers have made over the years. There's more onfarmm storage.

[00:10:10]There's more there's a a greater understanding of precision farming.

[00:10:15]There's a whole bunch of different things that farmers are doing to make sure they they're they're watching the markets and and making sure that they don't get caught on the wrong side of the market, but but they need more information.

[00:10:27]>> Can you paint a bit of a picture? What does it mean to have more onfarmm storage? Well, you can store fuel on farm if you have the the bulk tanks and they all need to have some fuel stored on farm so that on Sunday night when they need to keep going that they've got fuel there. They can buy larger or or smaller portions. So, they've got petroleum storage on farm and they've got fertilizer bins on farm too. So, they can go to a to a supplier in the fall after they've sold some of their product. They say, "Okay, this is what I'm going to grow next spring." And then they'll work up a fertilizer blend as Stuart talked about with what what components of nitrogen, phosphate, sulfate, sulfur in terms you want to grow on on with this next year's crop.

[00:11:08]And each each crop is different. And so you determine that in the fall and then you can start getting it the the supply companies really want to get it off of their uh plants as well. They want it on farm so then they can bring in more fertilizer for the needs that occur in the spring and just keep blending it up.

[00:11:26]I'm trying to picture the amount. Like I think of being a an urban gardener and you've got fertilizer that you need for your tomatoes or whatever, but like we're talking large scale like this. I'm just trying to picture the the size of what you might be talking about.

[00:11:37]>> Uh tons and tons and tons like large large uh fertilizer bins full because they also have to be make sure that you have the right kind of bin for fertilizer storage. You need something that's not going to rust because these most of these fertilizers uh will can cause some rusting in the bin if the bin isn't right. and they have to have thick walls, but we're we're talking like 150 lb 200 lb an acre on 10,000 acres. So the like I can't do the math in my head, but but we're talking about a m it's the biggest expense on the farm. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:11]Because you have to you have to feed the land in order to grow the crop. So yeah, you like other things are smaller quantities. Uh fertilizer or seed are smaller quantities. you can seed only like five or six pounds roughly of of of canola, 50 to 60 90 lbs maybe of wheat.

[00:12:29]Uh but the fertilizer is 150 to 250 lbs an acre. So so it's a it's a big bulk product and that and that's why moving it all the way from from Hormuz or from the places that's being produced on the other side of that straight is so important. Large amounts of fertilizer have to move to all of these places in the world. Australia is in a bind right now because they can't get fertilizer as well. Really?

[00:12:51]>> Yeah.

[00:12:52]>> So the other thing you mentioned was precision farming. So what what exactly is that?

[00:12:57]>> Well, that's when you're doing the kind of testing that Stuart again was talking about and that is like each crop determine needs a certain amount of fertilizer, but your land throughout your your uh throughout your farm will need different kinds of fertilizer or different amounts of fertilizer as well.

[00:13:12]someplace where there's higher organic matter, you might actually be able to put in a little less fertilizer or you might want to put in a little more because it has more moisture. So, you do uh the testing across your your fields and then you the the modern machinery which has developed again as as Stuart has said in the last years where we we go to zero till we now also measure exactly how much we're going to put on each field and that can change as you go across the field.

[00:13:38]>> Wow. Fascinating. So would it be this spring where where people have um decided to plant something different? I I I'm guessing that's not the case, but we might be seeing different crops in 26 2026 2027 because of what's happening right now.

[00:13:54]>> Well, yeah, because they're thinking about that now. I mean, farmers have to make their decisions. So last fall when they were making decisions, they couldn't sell any of their canola, right?

[00:14:02]>> So they're sitting there making decisions about the fertilizer and what they're going to seed. But farmers are also locked into rotations. You like you you don't want to seed canola on canola.

[00:14:12]You want to usually seed like a grass pro grass plant like it's a oats or barley or or wheat and then you want to put in peas or lentils on the on the other years. So you can alternate back and forth and that's the way you get the best crop. It's not just the amount of fertilizer. So, you kind of get locked into these decisions like year after year, and it's very tough to break out of them because those those kinds of farming practices, uh, short-term farming practices are not going to keep farms and families for 150 years.

[00:14:41]>> Yeah, I am wondering how this is affecting you if you're farming in Saskatchewan. Let us know how spring seeding has been going and how you're paying attention to the political climate uh, and how that might be changing things now or into the future for you. 1 800716-2221.

[00:14:58]You can also email blue [email protected].

[00:15:02]I do want to hear from a farmer right now. So Donald Kola farms in the Cudworth area and he told us that he's about 10 to 14 days late on seeding.

[00:15:12]Blue Sky producer Nicole Huck called him up to find out a bit more.

[00:15:16]>> My name is Donald Cola and farm at Cudworth, Saskatchewan.

[00:15:21]>> What kind of farm do you have?

[00:15:23]Um I I do I run a straight grain farm but I farm with my son who has cattle as well. Cattle and grain.

[00:15:31]>> And how big is your operation?

[00:15:34]>> We farm uh crop about 2,800 acres and he has 180 cow cal operation.

[00:15:40]>> How has the cost of fertilizer affected you and your son's operation?

[00:15:45]>> Very significant way. Uh a couple years ago we were up over $1,000 for URA and then it uh it dropped down to about uh $5 to $600.

[00:15:58]Uh this summer or or this winter when we bought URA in it was uh close to $700 around $700 77 and now it's up to $1,230 and that's basically because of the war in Iran. help people understand like if there's if there's listeners who don't really you know what know what ura is what is ura and how do you use it >> ura is made up of nitrogen and water basic or natural gas and water basically uh so um natural gas is very relatively cheap right now and so I'm not sure how they can justify the cost of $1,230 when it's made of basically of those two components and um ura is is is the main source of fertilizer or one of the main the major source of the major uh fertilizer that's used to grow a crop. um n uh nitrogen is used that's what it's called as NH3 or in other forms of it we use as as NH3 it's a it's in a crystal form and uh uh the canola is a big user of it and uh other crops are are a small user of it. So, uh, you can be putting down a couple hundred pounds of nitrogen per acre with your canola crop.

[00:17:31]>> And isn't isn't NH3 well, isn't that ammonia?

[00:17:35]>> That's right.

[00:17:37]>> Do you have a sense of even on your bottom line like in terms of how much it might the difference is in the over the course of, you know, one growing season uh when the the cost is up like this?

[00:17:48]Well, we uh like I said, we farm about 2,800 acres and um we had to buy 80 to 90 ton met no yeah 80 to 90 metric ton four suit no four super bees of of ura.

[00:18:04]So 40 160 ton of ura that we have to buy. So, when you start paying $500 a ton more for it, you times that by uh by 160 ton, you can tell you and it'll tell you basic cost this year if you had to buy it all right now.

[00:18:22]>> Were you able to buy in advance?

[00:18:25]>> Yes, we bought we bought 90 95% of it last fall.

[00:18:31]>> And are you already thinking about next year? uh not at $1,200 and something dollars a ton.

[00:18:39]>> So now you're just holding off and then you'll >> won't won't buy till we start uh till we start uh till we see what the prices are this summer. But in all my years of farming uh which has been uh close to 60 years uh you you never used to buy fertilizer in the summer. In the last 10 years, you buy fertilizer in the summer, you pay for that fertilizer before you even got the crop the last crop off. So, you're tying up a lot of inventory in fertilizer uh six a whole year in advance.

[00:19:20]>> And why are you doing it like that? Now, >> most of the companies that supply it, that's what they do. They don't take storage of it. They they pass it on to the farmer to do it. The farmer has to take storage of it. They don't want to store it and get caught. If that's the price, you decide that day if you're going to buy it tomorrow. It could go down or it could go up. It changes every day basically.

[00:19:45]>> Does it affect what you decide to to seed?

[00:19:50]>> Not not really. I mean we have a crop that we have to put in and uh we have a rotation that we follow and we predominantly seed a lot of canola which is basically a crop that generates the most most cash flow even though it requires the most amount of nitrogen.

[00:20:09]Canola requires a lot of u lot of nitrogen. Peas don't require anything.

[00:20:14]Uh we've grown peas in the past but the price on peas this year is terrible. uh where other crops have rallied, peas haven't haven't rallied in price. And the other problem with peas is uh the root rot situation that we've encountered by growing peas in our area right now.

[00:20:35]>> That's Donald Cola who farms in the Cudworth area. I'm Lisa Gerbinsky. You are listening to CBC Radio 1. We are testing our new Saskatoon transmitter call sign CBK1 FM on frequency 94.1 MHz.

[00:20:49]This transmitter is undergoing onair testing with full broadcasting starting June 9th. We're asking you to report any reception or interference problems to Saskatoon FM at CBC.ca or you can call 1800752950.

[00:21:07]If you've been typically listening to us on the AM dial just outside of Regina in Saskatoon, well, you should be able to pick us up more clearly on the FM dial.

[00:21:17]Our guest today, we've got Stuart Smi, who's a professor in the department of agriculture and bio resources at the University of Saskatchewan, and Dale Leftwitch, who's a policy manager with Sask Oil Seeds. We're talking about the political climate. I I do want to ask you both about the weather, and we did just get the latest crop report. Um, but I've got a couple more questions related to to fertilizer, and a couple that have come from our listeners. Uh, we are hoping to hear from farmers too. So, I'll just uh put out those numbers again. 1 8007162221 or email blue [email protected].

[00:21:52]Share with us your crop report. Now, Delwin writes, "As a primary food producer, a farmer, I have two crop inputs that I have zero control of. They are temperature from heat to frost and participate precipitation from flood to drought. Seating is progressing depending upon farmer and land type with moisture situations. Various land types and locations are causing seeding decisions even with the late seeding timing doing due to snow and the late melt and dry down. So that's from Delwin.

[00:22:22]>> Okay, let's talk about weather.

[00:22:25]Dale, I'll let you go first. How how are things looking?

[00:22:28]>> Well, the crop report came out today and so 52% of Saskatchewan the land that needs to be seated is seated. But that kind of covers off a few things like uh in in the area where most of the canola is grown in the in the northern part and eastern part of Saskatchewan, they're closer to 20 to 25% uh seated 25 26%. So that's very low. So they're now and and with the flooding there was there were low roads taken out. It's in some cases hard to get even to the to the field you want to plant. And the other thing particularly with canola is that if you seed late and it flowers during the heat you can lose you know quite a few no matter how much fertilizer you put on you can actually lose significant bushels. So so at this point it's really uh a an important issue to get out there. And the other thing I think that that in the past what crop insurance has done is m is extended the the crop insurance date a little bit in those areas where where people have not been able to get on the the land. So just a few extra days to make sure that they're still covered.

[00:23:34]>> Stuart, what do you read into today's crop report?

[00:23:38]>> Yeah, very similar to to what Dale was indicating. The you know threequarters of the the crop land in the southwest part of the province is seated. So I would expect, you know, within providing the weather stays nice within the next 10 days, they'll be wrapping up in in many parts of uh southwest and even into the west central side. But the the big concern is exactly as Dale said, our our key canola producing regions. Um and the the challenge that they're only got one out of four acres in the ground. And you know, it's it's going to be a challenge, I think, for those farmers to to get some seed some field seated just to sew wet this spring. And I, you know, I've talked to to some students have said that they may end up just having to float the seed on. Uh the soil's too wet to to to actually bury this the seed in the ground the way you normally would.

[00:24:29]You float it on the the surface with a a harrow to to try and um get some acres covered. And that might be something that happens this spring.

[00:24:37]>> Dale, have you ever had to do that?

[00:24:39]>> Yeah, we did that uh in in uh was it 2010 or 2012? in those those years they were particularly wet and and our neighbors were were floating on even wheat like canola is one thing that that actually it's a it's a seed that actually can react that fairly well to being harrowed in as they say but you were asking earlier about well if it gets to 37 today like what well if a if a crop you know is seated that's one thing because then it's in moisture and a couple of hot days the crop can react to it or or if it's up or if it's starting to root but if you're floating uh uh seed onto the top of the ground and then it gets hot like that and windy like we've said, it can actually get get stranded in a dry pocket even though it's wet underneath and then you've got uh severe germination problems. So so anytime like farmers like to seed their grain if they if they have to float it on as Stuart said some of them are doing that then you are introducing once again more risks like it can work but it can also be really problematic. you're you're starting to say, "Okay, here's another thing that that could go wrong."

[00:25:45]>> Yeah. I I do feel like this this spring weather forecast is ju it's just been whiplash, right? Like we just we had snow. We're talking about still people recovering from flooding. Now it's a high of 37 in Saskatoon. It's been windy. There are thunderstorms in the forecast.

[00:25:58]>> Stuart, you know, as you watch the weather, how do you think that's going to to impact people? This heat and then who knows what's to come? So I was on a call at the start of last week and I related that we had had 4 in of snow the previous se and they colleagues from Brazil just one of them said well why would you even live there that's a good that's a good question at times we ask ourselves that >> yeah yeah >> but but I think Dale Dale really nails it. I mean, we've got excellent mo, you know, moisture for germination is I from what I'm seeing is is pretty much uh widespread um medium to to excellent across most of the province. So, so we know our if the if the crop can be seated, it's going to get off to a really good start. Then the the question sort of becomes is what's going to happen towards the end of June or the start of July when when we need that initial init additional uh moisture input to help um through through the flowering phase and the and and the filling of of pods and and heads and these kind of things. So I I think for the next 3 weeks or so we'll we'll have we'll be pretty good in terms of moisture. The next question then, you know, what happens um about a month from now, >> but but you would say that we're starting off with with a good level of moisture because it wasn't long ago we were dealing with drought conditions and actually fascinating, I had listened to a CBC program, Stuart, you were on it.

[00:27:23]There was a farmer from Manitoba and a farmer from Alberta and just wildly different conditions. Alberta was talking about drought and wherever this person was in Manitoba or maybe I've got it backwards. I don't think you got it right. Alberta, Alberta has been very dry and Manitoba is has been quite a bit wetter this year. Yeah.

[00:27:40]>> Okay. So, Dale, how would you characterize Saskatchewan? And I know we're we're a big province, but um are we, you know, >> well, 45% of all the agricultural land in Canada is in Saskatchewan, so yeah, we're a big province and it's important what happens here. So, yeah, we've got like last year it was very dry in the northwest uh in Ad Lloyd Minster up near uh Turtleford, that area. there was a huge dry patch that went right across the top of the province, but they're getting a lot of moisture now and and they're they're really wet and uh so but in the south there's there's like pockets of dryness like in all of these circumstances the weather is is not uniform. You can get certain areas that because of the topography or one thing or another where it can be dry, but I think most people are reasonably happy like we were really worried a couple weeks ago when we got that tremendous wind. There was a lot of crop actually that had if it had been seated and was up, it was actually uh cut off and uh like the the wind can actually shear a plant off. So again, we're we're hopeful uh we that that things will will be good. We're late and and even at this point we're starting to think about what's going to happen in the fall. But but by and large the moisture is pretty good I think for for most of Saskatchewan.

[00:28:52]>> Yeah. I mean you're if you're in business you know risk farmers know risk. This is not new. But at the same time just listening to to how much is going on and all the calculations that need to be made. I I think about the stress and I mean we know we know that farmers um there's an increase in increasing concern about mental health in in rural areas. D, what are your thoughts on that when when you describe the moment that we're in and all of the possibilities and risks that come with farming right now? How how are farmers dealing with it?

[00:29:21]>> Well, I think it was really telling when you got the what you read from the farmer who said, "I can control two things." Like anyone whose life is out of control, that takes a certain degree of of uh capacity to figure out how to deal with these things. And as I said before, farmers are resilient. We have changed the way that we farm over the last 30 years. Led can led the world actually in new farming practices, new new types of uh equipment, all of those kinds of things. But in the in something like this, when things are are when you can't control the weather and things are sort of headed in a certain direction, it raises stress levels and and farmers then uh farmers really put in long hours in seeding and harvest. They go at it very hard to make sure that they get things done on time. But in a season like this, then they really do do start to become sleepdeprived honestly. And so they have to be very careful to make sure that they're being safe, that they that that they're they're thinking things through very quickly. But but these kinds of things where you've got a larger farm, you're actually managing several people at once, you're not getting enough sleep, and the rest of your family is not getting enough sleep, and you're worried about getting a crop in. These all become stressors for people >> and you're wondering if if the US president is going to sign this this peace deal and whether or not the street of Hormuz will open and how that will affect prices down the road.

[00:30:44]>> Another thing that the farmer cannot control which is going to, you know, adversely affect him or positively, we don't know, but he's going to have to deal with that throughout the summer.

[00:30:53]>> Yeah. Stuart, what are your thoughts on the amount of stress that farmers are dealing with right now?

[00:30:58]Yeah, I I think it's something that, you know, is it doesn't get the the proper amount of of discussion and coverage that it does. And so I'm a real advocate of this and and I teach a class in the fall on agriculture policy. And for the last five or six years, I bring in Leslie Kelly, who's one of the advocates and champions behind Do More Egg, which is about promoting good mental health with farmers. and and I bring her in as a guest speaker and she she gets an hour and a half with with you know our our egg biz students that are going to go back and they'll become the next generation of farmers and people involved in the egg sector. I I I believe it's a hugely important issue.

[00:31:33]So she goes through and talks about you know what are some of the practices of good mental health? What are some of the the the things you recognize when someone is getting sort of stressed to you know that Dale talked about this different stressors. Well, what happens when you start to reach the maximum of your your ability to cope? So, what are the the symptoms and the signs and those? And she and she helps explain this to to our to, you know, to the to the young men and women in the class.

[00:31:58]And I I think it's a fantastic thing that she's doing and and and truly support um that that initiative. you know, you mentioning sleep, but we were hearing in the news how this ask safety council had done this survey um and asking people about, you know, their sleep and the level of fatigue and how that can lead to workplace injuries. And so when you think about farmers, I mean that that that yeah, like they're they're doing a really big job. It's sometimes dangerous work.

[00:32:23]>> Well, it it everything that a farmer is working with really is like they work with heavy equipment. They they're on the roads. They're like like virtually everything they're doing is hazardous and they they are careful people and we've like like Stuart says the the the we go through these kinds of things. We try to make sure as the SAS oil seeds make sure that you know any kind of training we can do or and any kind of things. But yes, that though that when you're tired you don't make necessarily make the best decisions. So, so it's really important and you like in my work if I take a day off, well, there might be somebody who might answer my emails or do something. A farmer takes a day off and that's a day that nothing get that's things don't get done. Like he's got people that work for him, too. But but that that period of time when things have to get done, farmers are very conscious that uh there's not a replacement person there just waiting to take over the the the job that day.

[00:33:18]>> Yeah. I don't want to add to what they're already doing, but if you feel like calling today, if you're out farming, give us a shout and let us know how spring is looking for you, how you're dealing with the stress, the volatility of everything. 1 8007162221.

[00:33:30]You can also email blue [email protected].

[00:33:34]I want to come back to fertilizer for a moment. Stuart, I'll put this question to you. We did get a a question from a caller asking about organic farmers and how they might be affected by costs. So fuel, yes, of course, but how much fertilizer might an organic farmer use?

[00:33:49]Are there any differences that we could discuss?

[00:33:52]>> Well, well, the one thing about organic farming is they've banned the use of synthetic fertilizers. So, so all the fertilizer that Dale and I have been talking about that that's all what we would classify as synthetic fertilizer.

[00:34:03]Uh so it's it's created in a factory as as Dale indicated, right? Organic farming relies just on on livestock manure. So they won't, you know, from from this side of things, they they won't be impacted by these higher costs for for all of the synthetic fertilizers that, you know, I think about 2% of uh acres in Saskatchewan or organic and that's predominantly um for like for hay, livestock feed. So So we have very little on the the the cereals, pulses, oil, seed side of things. So I I I think the impact would be virtually minimal on those farms.

[00:34:41]>> Do you do you see any more interest in it though given the rising cost of of fertilizer?

[00:34:47]>> No, actually it's the other way. Farmers are are quitting organics because the the the prices the yields are so low. So in terms of like oil seeds or or cereals, they're only producing about 65% of what a a conventional farmer is able to produce. So because they get such a low yield, um they they simply can't make a significant level of profit on an organic field and and with the higher commodity prices for canola, especially in the last number of years, farmers are are converting their land from organic into to growing genetically modified canola varieties uh just due to profitability.

[00:35:25]>> Dale, do you have anything to add on that front?

[00:35:27]>> Well, that's Stuart outlined those things very well. The the one thing that I will say about organic farming though is that with the with the rise the with the adoption of new farming practices zero till minimum till what uh conventional farmers do is they'll spray a liter of Roundup on a field and they'll kill all the weeds and they won't till that soil and so they aren't uh they aren't uh allowing it for they aren't making it a um um like so erosion and those kinds of things. They're not make they're keeping the soil safe from all of those kinds of things, wind erosion, moisture erosion, those kind of things. Organic farmers are doing what they can inside of their uh methods of farming to protect their soils and and and modernize in their own way, but they have to use a lot more fuel because they aren't using the the kinds of things that are available to conventional farmers. So the price. So that's right.

[00:36:28]They won't be affected by the price of of of nitrogen fertilizer, but they will be very adversely affected by the price of fuel because they have to use a lot more of it.

[00:36:37]>> What other changes uh and conversations are happening right now in light of all of this? So I I know I'm hearing a greater emphasis on value added. You know, how can we process more of what we produce? Um but you're you two are in this. I'm just an observer. So, what what are the conversations taking place right now, Dale, to help reduce risk and navigate the the moment?

[00:37:01]>> Well, we've seen a huge increase in uh in crushing capacity in in Saskatchewan.

[00:37:08]And uh that's pretty much uh uh entirely uh the result of a new uh desires for for renewable diesel. And currently in Strath Kona, they just opened up a a large $750 million uh facility to take canola oil. They can use other things, tallow and and other things as well and and and use and create bofuels out of that. And and really if you think about that, that's another source of crude oil. It could actually, you know, if the price of crude oil gets higher, it could actually lower the price of oil because you've got another another feed stock.

[00:37:42]So, so but that's the kind of when when there were problems with selling uh canola uh into China, these these crushing facilities facilities kept buying canola from farmers. We would have been in a much worse position had they not uh ch uh um uh built the facility in Regina with Cargill and Louis Drifus and Richardson and York in terms of their crushing facilities. All of those expansions in those places really took up quite a bit of the slack.

[00:38:10]Now, just too much a little more detail, but but one of the things that was so important in this deal was not just the uh sale of the seed, but also the sale of the meal because China was taking the meal because when when you crush the the the canola, you sell the oil, but then the meal is a feed source for feed for fish and for for animals for for it's really great for beef. So, so as we crush more canola, we could produce more feed for animals. And so this is a very important market to be able to sell that into China because they are very hungry.

[00:38:43]They have a big fish industry. So all of those kinds of things and make getting that right and and having that renewable diesel industry and and other industries like that is very important to farmers.

[00:38:53]>> Interesting. Stuart, I'll come to you in a moment. But we've got some callers on the line, so let's get to this. Donald in Spiritwood joins us right now.

[00:39:00]Donald, welcome to Blue Sky.

[00:39:05]Hello, Donald.

[00:39:08]Okay, I'm not hearing Donald. Okay, no problem. We'll we'll see if Donald calls back. Donald, I want to hear from you.

[00:39:14]So, give us a call. 1 8007162221.

[00:39:17]But I think we do have Rob on the line in Saskatoon here. Hey, Rob. Welcome to the show.

[00:39:23]>> Yes. Hi, Luca. So, I am a retired organic farmer. Um, but we did farm organically for over 30 years in the Northeast.

[00:39:35]So I'd like to correct a little bit information that I just heard from your guests. Uh one was this that organic farmers re rely entirely on on manure.

[00:39:48]Um you know it's okay. So we um organic farmers will bring in uh rock phosphate which is a slow release product uh to get uh phosphate uh values up on their land. Um we rely on uh legumes extensively for rebuilding uh soil uh leg uh nitrogen into the soil. Um, we, uh, use crop rotations, uh, green manure plowdowns.

[00:40:26]Um, you know, so there's there's much more than this simplified, uh, information that I just heard.

[00:40:34]>> Okay. Well, I appreciate you.

[00:40:36]>> Oh, go ahead. Yep.

[00:40:37]>> Well, furthermore, they're saying that, you know, most of the organic farms are are just hayland or for cattle. Uh, that also is not true. there are many um grain farmers uh producing uh growing organically as we did ourselves. We didn't have livestock. Um and uh just you know it it was just so obviously a biased um uh write off of organic farming from these two guests.

[00:41:12]And uh as an organic farmer, I I just wanted to correct the information a little bit.

[00:41:19]>> Well, I'm glad you picked up the phone, Rob. Thank you.

[00:41:22]>> Okay, thanks.

[00:41:24]>> That's Rob in Saskatoon.

[00:41:26]>> Let's go to Donald who's back on the line from Spiritwood. Hey, Donald.

[00:41:31]>> Hello.

[00:41:33]>> Welcome to the show.

[00:41:34]>> I sure can. I'm curious to know your thoughts and and uh what what you're thinking about as you listen to this program today.

[00:41:41]Well, I think I'd like to uh uh support Rob's comments. Some of the things that he he brought up uh are things that uh I certainly would challenge some of what was said earlier about about the economy. Uh I'm not wouldn't describe myself as a true organic farmer, but we've we've tried uh as much as possible to limit uh the being uh sucked into the chemical treadmill. Um I would I would make the point that uh the canola economy as much as it's trumpeted as one as making so much money for people I can tell you after 60ome years of farming I probably would have been further ahead if I'd never grown an acre of this stuff. When you look at the cost, the input costs of growing canola and the risks involved, there's it's it's just u you might as well go to Las Vegas and play the casino. So anyway, furthermore to the how it organic farming, the costs are affecting us. Fuel is the number one thing. Um parts on anything that you need nowadays is have just gone through the roof. And uh I'd like to support Rob's comments about how much production you can actually do with organic farming. And and we have a a small beef her have had for many years. And it's basically organic, although we don't we don't have it certified as such. But our feed source comes from an area of Pete soil that we drained, put a proper properly maintained drainage system in.

[00:43:29]>> Oh gosh, I think we lost Donald. I wanted Oh, are you still with us, Donald?

[00:43:34]>> Hello. Yeah.

[00:43:35]>> Yeah, you just you the call dropped there momentarily. You were telling us about the the Pete soil.

[00:43:41]>> Yes. Our our feed supply for our our beef herd is is based on a a drained area of feed soil which is tremendously productive. It requires no artificial inputs of any kind. So there are there are many ways of of uh actually boosting uh organic production and and uh that don't require huge amounts of or u chemical fertilizers but I've always had a um bit of a problem with uh the fact that our our soil needs phosphorus >> and and it needs some of it needs pot ash and um I'm not sure ruling that out of out of use is is a good thing.

[00:44:29]>> Okay. Well, Donald, I'm glad you were listening and yeah, thanks for calling.

[00:44:32]>> Nice hearing from you.

[00:44:33]>> All right.

[00:44:34]>> Bye. That's Donald from Spiritwood.

[00:44:38]Stuart and Dale, I'll give you an opportunity to respond. We only have four minutes or so left. Stuart, um just based on those last two callers, what stands out and how do you want to respond?

[00:44:48]Yeah, I I think you know the the one thing is um for conventional farmers like the non-organic farmers are are recognized as the the most sustainable farmers in the world. It's because of what Dale mentioned earlier, zero tillage. Um carbon stays in the soil. Uh the the one caller mentioned that that they use green manure. So you you grow a crop till it gets 6 or 8 in high and then you plow it down and you have to till that field multiple times. So you you're burning fuel to do the tillillage. Uh you're releasing carbon from the soil every single pass you make over the field. Whereas conventional zero till farmers are able to store that carbon uh which provides significant benefits. The soil organic you know our soils are healthier um in terms of soil organic matter. We have 40% more soil organic matter than we did 30 years ago.

[00:45:38]So so continuous cropping is a huge benefit for sustainable agriculture.

[00:45:43]>> D I'll let you weigh in. Yeah, those are those are good points and I would agree with them and I guess the thing is when I said that farmers are resilient.

[00:45:53]farmers like we like to say if there you get three farmers you get four opinions right so so the idea is that farmers are freethinking individuals who decide on their own land what they want to do and uh and then they they pursue that and and as I did say that like they are they are using whatever kind of uh things that they have determined like you heard a whole range of different things that these organic farmers are doing uh so so farmers are going to try to figure out what's best on their land to grow their best crops. And uh the what you can see is that there are people who have chosen organic farming and that the vast majority of farmers have chosen more conventional farming and and working with the kind of new farming things that we have organic uh like G uh genetically modified plants, the new plant breeding processes, precision farming, all of those kinds of things and and that's how things are marching forward.

[00:46:50]>> Okay. Well, what a wonderful window into a world that I I continue to learn about. So, Dale, thanks for being with us today.

[00:46:57]>> Thank you for having me.

[00:46:58]>> Yeah, huge thanks to you, too.

[00:47:00]>> Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you.

[00:47:02]>> Stuart Smi is a professor in the department of agriculture and bio resources at the University of Saskatchewan. And Dale Lewitch is a policy manager with Sask Oil Seeds. I'm Lee Gerbinsky. You are listening to Blue Sky here on CBC Radio 1. I liked that line, three farmers, four opinions.

[00:47:20]Well, put those opinions, share those opinions on our talkback line. 1 8006617540.