Epic Universe To Start Implementing An "OPEN HUB" Concept | Future Of Theme Parks

Added: 2026-05-15

[00:00:20]We've talked about this rumor. I I guess you could still call it a rumor of a when you're talking about Epic Universe, an open Celestial Park concept. And if you're unfamiliar with this, the idea here is that Celestial Park, which is the center area of Epic Universe, is the area you walk into. It's got a lot of restaurants, got merchandise, things like that. Got a couple of rides in there. But it was always rumored even before the park opened that this could become like essentially a Citywalk 2.0, like free to the public after five o'clock. people could come in here and eat food, you know, do all sorts of stuff. It was always just a rumor. It was something that, you know, Universal's never, I don't believe, has ever confirmed nor denied that they've even talked about this. But coming up on the one year anniversary, we've seen a few signs that this could happen. We've seen some facial recognition scanners at various times at some of these portals, which people have alluded to, like why else would you do this unless you're going to do this open social park concept. And then there was a post on Instagram from Premier Beauty Shows and not really affiliated with Universal, but they're having a convention at the Orange Orange County Convention Center.

[00:01:28]And it says, "Enjoy an evening of complimentary admission to the Celestial Park area of Universal's Epic Universe where you'll have access to a variety of dining, shopping, and live entertainment. Complimentary self-parking available after 5:00 pm.

[00:01:41]just present your Premier Orlando Conference badge ID. Uh you can get dining reservations up. It goes on to say that you can't ride any attractions and things like that. But obviously this is the blueprint for an open celestial park concept. Do you guys think this is a pretty good indication that Universal is starting to test this to make this a thing they end up doing? Or was all this just for maybe these conferences as a perk if they have some corporate events and they can come into Celestial Park, you know, as part of their conference?

[00:02:10]No, I think I I think this is they're testing. I mean, Vash and I did videos on this many moons ago and and they they Universal has wanted to do these kind of things for a long time, you know, and and look, I understand the business, you know, angle, right? Like if the restaurants aren't filling up and they can't have APS in there, you know, open it up to the public and fill up those restaurants. I get the business end. I also get the guest, you know, um, experience, uh, concerns where it's like, well, wait a minute. I'm paying for Epic Universe.

[00:02:44]People are flooding, you know, the, uh, the Celestial Park area and like, you know, now I'm waiting an hour and a half to go eat at this place, you know. So, I get like where paying, you know, pe like paying like people who paid for a ticket, I can see where they would be upset. So, there are a lot of logistical hurdles with this. I think Universal needs to prioritize people who paid for for a Epic Universe ticket, right? So, you get priority in those restaurants. I mean, you you you can't be um you know um having everybody wait in the same line. I don't think that's fair to be honest with you. But another thing, too, is I think this might be the future of theme parks. You know, we talked about a little bit on Conductor's channel where it's like, you know what, Disney is very tight on space when it comes to even like our third gate. We're going to talk about that later on today. You know, with with Disneyland Resort, um possibly getting a third gate in that Toy Story lot. Well, if you don't have room for another Downtown Disney, what do you do? Well, you can do something like this where you open up the main thoroughfare or whatever to everybody and you have dining and shopping and you you you open that up to everybody. So, I can kind of see this being the future of theme parks in a lot of way in a lot of ways, not just, you know, Universal. At the same time though, there's a lot of question marks and a lot of problems that can can kind of arise from this kind of like model. Um, so they're going to have to address those. The thing though that I do appreciate, I like when companies, whether Universal or Disney, I like when they think outside the box. Now, I would rather these companies think outside the box and fail every now and then. Not all the time. You don't want to fail all the time because then you become Sears. But but but you know, you do want to think outside the box and try new things. I appreciate Universal for really thinking outside the box and actually trying something different. And if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. But you know what?

[00:04:31]At least they're trying something different. I think that's better than kind of resting on laurels and kind of doing the same old same old. So kudos to that, you know. So we'll see how it all shakes out. I do think that it's it's an interesting kind of approach to this. I do think though when it comes to the restaurants being empty, I think that is sort of a an issue that they that Universal should address permanently later on. Um, a big part of that is because there's not enough to do here.

[00:05:00]It's a lot of A+ attractions, not a lot of filler rides. That's one of the big issues with keeping people here later.

[00:05:07]Another big issue is no nighttime entertainment. That's another huge issue. So, these are things that Universal can address as time goes on.

[00:05:15]Maybe you don't need the open hub eventually or maybe you kind of reimagine that later on. But, yeah, I I mean, I'm open to it, but they have to address these concerns though. You can't just open that up and then like, you know, you know, like kind of screw over the uh the people paying for the uh the park tickets, right? So, we'll see.

[00:05:34]>> Yeah.

[00:05:35]>> Yeah. You know, I look at this and I, you know, you look at it, you go, why is there a shop outside the Super Nintendo World Portal? Why are your signature experiences like dining, for example, in the Celestial Hub and not actually spread out within the portals themselves? And it's like this, this was always part of this design in order to maybe even just try it out, but see whether or not this was actually viable in a theme park setting going forward.

[00:05:59]And I think this was imagined originally by managers, park managers back in the '90s. I I do believe. looking to rethink the theme park concept right here. And so look, it's built into the DNA of this theme park that they actually do this.

[00:06:13]Uh and we are hearing from various reports like theme park for example, I think he was very strong in his opinion that that uh this park is not really, you know, it's emptying out at a certain point, right? And Celestial Park is becoming emptier as time goes on um each and every single day. So it's kind of like okay well maybe they do actually require this obviously I think Jared you you brought the fact that on you know going forward when it comes to these quarters and so forth obviously these doubledigit gains that have been uh seen in the last couple of Comcast quarters are result of Epic Universe opening right but those are year-over-year how does that look one year out how do you get some more gains out of this park uh well you do it by pulling those levers maybe in this direction right here. Now, obviously, there's a delicate ecosystem for every single theme park. And so, when you let in a mass amount of people from the outside into a park that's usually uh, you know, pay to play, you know, obviously that disrupts that. So, that has to be taken um carefully. And this is what we're seeing. We're seeing basically a test of the system in action just limited to conference goers. And even conference goers, you have to show your badge, you do all these things in order to get in. So, it it is highly regulated in that respect. Uh OG pointed out right there. I think this park really does need a nighttime entertainment package. There's no question about that. It keeps you, you know, in the park longer as you try to stick out your spot there to see the fireworks display or whatever they're actually going to have there. But how does that work with an open hub concept?

[00:07:48]You do you have everybody in their mother just, you know, descending on Epic Universes to catch the fireworks presentation? It's going to be interesting to see how they regulate that. A lot of open questions here, but this certainly suggests to me that they are pursuing this concept and uh conference goers, I think uh the beauty conference is going to be your first outlet for this.

[00:08:07]>> I guess that maybe Yeah, it's interesting. It's a beauty one. Well, and that's a really good point. I mean, if you look, there's always reservations open in the evenings in Celestial Park.

[00:08:15]They want to bump up the revenue and I completely agree with what you guys are saying. You got to balance this out with the guest experience because you can't have people paying $200 to get in here and then after a certain point like you can't use Celestial Park on some level.

[00:08:28]And so I I think doing a small test like this, if I were to guess some of these details that we've even talked about, they're probably curious about as well.

[00:08:36]And the only way you're really going to figure this stuff out is by kind of doing it on some level. So by opening up to a smaller I'm not I don't know how big this conference is, but a smaller group of people. It allows you to see, okay, here's some of the trends we're seeing. Here are some things we can do to litigate this and X, Y, and Z. And it it also could be, I mean, that, you know, I know it's talked about it could be for the general public, but it also could be something that's for APS. It could be for hotel. They that doesn't necessarily mean that they would open this up to just everybody and their mom coming in here, but that could be a way that they kind of phase this in uh just to get more traffic in here. And I do think all the signs point to a fireworks show, some sort of nighttime show showing up here sometime this year. They again, they had job postings for fireworks coordinators there. All sorts of work going on on the fountain uh on the fireworks peninsula. And so I do think that is going to happen. It probably coincides with maybe having more people in Celestial Park whenever they do start. That probably makes some sense there. But uh what are your thoughts on this conductor?

[00:09:40]>> You're on mute, brother.

[00:09:42]It was a It was a good point though.

[00:09:44]>> Yeah, it was great point.

[00:09:47]>> You hear me now?

[00:09:48]>> There you go.

[00:09:49]>> Okay. So, like I said during conductor Sunday live stream which you guys were all part of, they are taking a page out of the old playbook and what I mean by that is when you look at >> Oh, >> he's muted again. You're mute again, bro.

[00:10:09]>> Might have a You might have a loose cord. Yeah, I do, >> fellas.

[00:10:13]>> Hold on.

[00:10:15]Just some technical. I wish I had some elevator music. We just start.

[00:10:18]>> I know.

[00:10:20]>> You hear me now?

[00:10:20]>> Yeah, you're good. You're good.

[00:10:22]>> You're good now.

[00:10:23]>> Let me try this again.

[00:10:25]>> Sure.

[00:10:25]>> So, they're they're taking a page out of Knottberry Farm, which is a local California park, which began with this concept. you walk in, you can enjoy, you know, the festivities, all all this stuff. But if you wanted to do the attractions, you wanted to do some entertainment, you would have to pay for it. And that's kind of what Bash was saying, how Epic Universe was built.

[00:10:51]Now, the reason why at least in my opinion, we're seeing not the highest numbers for dining is I I think like like you gentlemen were saying, it's due to the point there's not enough to do.

[00:11:08]Like OG mentioned, there's not enough filler rides. Okay? There's all these e attractions that usually the the standard's going to be an hour and that's being generous. an hour for these attractions to get on and then there's not enough to do. Once they start expanding Epic Universe, then that's a whole different story. And do I think this open concept is going to stick around? I do. But I think what's really going to boost the numbers for Epic Universe is not just the expansion of Epic Universe, but also adding that AP value to the park. Until they do that, you know, it's going to be kind of a hit or a miss. Don't get me wrong, I I do like the concept of going in uh Celestial Park and just hanging out and vibing out.

[00:12:04]>> Yeah. But what what if too many people are doing that and they're not they're not going into the restaurants in Celestial Park? What if they're not buying merch and they're just going in there and vibing out? Is that really a benefit for Universal?

[00:12:18]>> That's a great point you make, conductor, because it's kind of like a mall, right?

[00:12:23]>> Yeah.

[00:12:23]>> When you have a local mall, you can go into your local mall and the place could be packed with a bunch of teenagers hanging out.

[00:12:30]>> Yeah. But if those teenagers aren't buying anything >> exactly, >> the mall's not making any money. The these are the teenagers hanging out are essentially empty calories at that point, right? So the people that come into this hub area, Celestial Park.

[00:12:47]Yeah. I mean, and that's what Universal is going to kind of, you know, test and see, but if they're coming in just to hang out and vibe and they're not eating anything or spending any money, Universal is going to be like, you know what, this ain't worth it. We have a lot of bodies, but there's no money being spent, right?

[00:13:03]>> So, >> well, this is interesting.

[00:13:06]>> Okay, this is a very interesting point.

[00:13:08]Um, I was just going to bring this up and it kind of correlates with what we're talking about right now. Do we believe that Epic Universe is or Universal is opening up this park to these convention attendees out of the kindness of their heart or are they getting a check for that privilege? It sounds like they might be. And so maybe in terms of you know when it comes to like selling this park a second time potentially uh to convention um what is it um organizers?

[00:13:38]>> Oh yeah >> right. You know maybe it's inconsequential whether or not they do spend money because well money's been already been spent. It's already changed hands. Is that possibility here?

[00:13:47]>> It's definely possible. I mean I didn't even think about that angle but it's definitely possible that these conventions would pay to be able to do that. Um, I mean, I guess you could do like, you know, a comedy club, have a two drink minimum if you're letting people in for free. Like, you gotta go buy something in here. You got to get your butt out of here. But I mean, realistically, >> yeah, some people could come in here and not do anything and maybe just check out the firework show. That's possible. But I think you would have people like getting food, getting drink. I I do think that would be something that would happen. It just >> You would honestly think, Jared, we had something and I don't know if it's still around. an OG, you can let me know. But back in the day for Downtown Disney, it was kind of like that same mentality.

[00:14:31]Like people would go in and maybe dine in Downtown Disney and if if you dine at one of the participating restaurants, you spend the money that that qualifies, you get free parking. That was an incentive. Maybe they're going to look at something like that angle for Celestial Park. Yeah, you can come in, but we expect you to buy something or to dine at one of our restaurants in Celestial Park to kind of, you know, maybe justify maybe giving you that free parking or whatever the case might be. You know what I mean?

[00:15:11]>> That's a good angle.

[00:15:12]>> Yeah, >> parking validation's a big deal. I was kind of thinking the same thing, uh, conductor. I'm so glad you said it because it's an amazing point. there are levers they can pull here in order to elicit more revenue, right? So, um, Ochi, for you know, in your instance, it's like, okay, well, maybe, you know, we're worried about people vibing out.

[00:15:30]If in fact, you do have a a parking cost attached to actually going to here, maybe it's more purposeful for the people actually there that they're actually going to be engaging in uh the products on the other side of the entrance gates. Maybe, possibly, potentially, even if they don't, maybe you set that parking at a certain price in which you're still getting revenue no matter what. In this test, actually, free parking after 5 p.m., but perhaps with future tests or future implementations, that changes in order to um get maybe parking validation or revenue that way.

[00:16:01]>> Well, let let me ask you guys this. if the the um photo validation that we've kind of been seeing off and on with some of the portals here at Epic Universe and let's say the Celestial Park open hub concept works and we were talking about on my live stream on conductor Sunday live stream how maybe Epcot and some of these other parks can incorporate that.

[00:16:27]Do you think I if they nail down the technology here at Epic, could we see that same technology at the other parks where if you know someone that paid to go into the theme park, you know, obviously they they do the facial recognition, they get on the ride, someone that is just walking into Epic or Epcot to just enjoy the vibes, maybe dine at one of the restaurants, but and then buy a park ticket and they go to, you know, see if they could pull a fast one and try to get on, you know, Guardians and they do the facial recognition and it denies them because they didn't buy a park ticket. Do you see that technology sprawling out throughout the other parks if they nail it at Epic?

[00:17:18]>> I mean, honestly, that's always going to be a thing. I I think if if if anything is successful, you're going to see more of it, you know? So, I think if it's if it's a hit, they'll do more of it for sure.

[00:17:29]>> They're doing it at Disneyland, which is interesting to get into that they're offering that. So, I I imagine that would come to Disney World.

[00:17:36]>> Uh, and I will say for the Universal one, >> it works really well. Like, even when I have a hat on or sunglasses, like that thing recognizes me right away, even it's much quicker. I >> I'm going to tell you this right now.

[00:17:49]When you do come back to Southern California and me and OG give you the tour of Disneyland and Universal Hollywood, especially Universal Hollywood, you're gonna be so frustrated going through the line with the stupid fingerprint scanner and you're like, >> I remember home.

[00:18:06]>> Yeah, >> I miss home cuz God, we live in the dinosaur age at Universal out here in Southern California. Well, I think a lot of and not to get not to get too not to get too political, but I mean I think it's really because these companies >> know that, right? But I think a lot of companies are ti their hands are tied >> because of the unions and things like that.

[00:18:28]>> So, >> and consumer protection laws and so forth. I know they're I I had analysis performed on the provisions as they related to both California and Florida, the differences and so forth. California is much more strict with that. So implementation has to be done accordingly. I think uh Disneyland is implementing best practice out there in California, but it's not uh nearly as uh maybe ubiquitous. Um the the implementation in the in the ease of it over there in Universal of in Florida anyway. Uh they definitely have the upper hand when it comes to convenience, walking through, etc. But that's the thing, Jared. I mean, I think a lot of those systems are patented, so you'll see differences in their approaches obviously, but um I I think this is the future for theme parks really.

[00:19:13]>> Yeah.

[00:19:13]>> You know, real quick guys, I just want to bring up a couple comments from Ben because I think he brings up a good counter argument here.

[00:19:19]>> I was going to bring this up too. Yeah.

[00:19:20]>> Perfect. Perfect. Yeah. I No, Ben is saying, "I know you guys discussed this park was built around this multi-use, which is true. Like I said, Vash and I did videos on this in like 2021. It's crazy. But um but it's not but is it not concerning that Epic is having attendance performance issues so early into his park life? Like what do you guys think about that? Because that is kind of an issue. And it's not attendance maybe from demand from a demand standpoint. It's attendance from like them blocking people out because the park can't sustain that many people.

[00:19:50]But even so, that's still concerning though. Yeah, it it's a different Yeah, it's it's a different issue for the attendance because the the whole reason they would be looking at this is they they've had record-breaking quarters since Epic has been on the books. But the maximum capacity of this park is probably somewhere I was told 40 to 50,000 guests, which I like you were saying, I can't even imagine this park with that many.

[00:20:14]>> But if you already have these wait time issues, which it does, we were just there on last Thursday.

[00:20:20]how else, you know, okay, how are you going to get more revenue out of this park? Like, you can't really put more people in here that are getting into lines to ride things because then it's just completely unmanageable. But if you start looking at stuff like this, you could see how this could add to revenue.

[00:20:34]I think the one lever they're going to pull from what I've heard as well are after hours events at Epic. And I think those would go over great. I think for one thing, this park is great at night.

[00:20:43]This is when it shines. You could have I don't know how much they'd pay for it, but you know, it probably be 200 bucks, something like that. Kind of like what Disney does. You get 10 o'clock till one in the morning. You get to ride these rides without much weight. I think things like that would go over very well. So, I think that it's not just this concept. I think they'll be looking at other things they can do. They sent out surveys talking about Epic Universe APS a couple months ago. So, they're looking at things. I do think they at least experiment with this open concept idea. Maybe they try it with these conventions and if they see that these conventions are just like, "Okay, this isn't going to work." But like Vash was saying, I think they did design this park with this at least as an option in mind. Maybe they didn't intend to always do it for sure, but you build it into the, you know, plan B like, okay, we're having these issues with this. We have this ability to do this and at least exploring it. And I think they will explore it. I'm just curious about at to what level. Like I'm not totally convinced it's going to be open to the public necessarily, but I think there could be like we were saying, you know, APs or hotel guests or something along those lines. I think they're at least going to start exploring that end uh in in this period of time when they're wanting to show more revenue quarter after quarter at the one-year mark of Epic.

[00:21:57]>> Well, let me ask let me ask you guys a question because Remy D's posing a a great I guess comment question.

[00:22:04]Universal gets a lot of benefit of the doubt and leeway.

[00:22:08]Is that true here? Like, do you feel like if Magic Kingdom was doing this, it would be a different conversation? And I I think it's a fair question to pose, you know?

[00:22:17]>> Yeah, I think it it would be a different conversation only because Magic Kingdom is built so much differently, you know, it doesn't really have a a I mean, it has a hub and spoke, but it doesn't have the segmentation naturally to it that I think CO Park benefits from. It doesn't have the infrastructure that this park was built with in order to accommodate these things. Yeah. You got to think of um when this park was originally conceived back in what the 1990s 2000s right there Disneyland um I'm sorry Walt Disney World anyway uh we all know the vacation kingdom but really there was a convention kingdom out there at at around that time right where convention business was huge for these parks. This was right before the social media era.

[00:22:57]And so, uh, the idea Jared of of having corporate events in here or having after hours parties in here and segmenting portals off, you know, all of that is kind of built in to this fabric and and its implementation is relatively straightforward as opposed to a kind of mo, you know, a pre-existing theme park in which, you know, segmenting off sections like maybe Main Street in Magic Kingdom, for example, or um, I don't know, a a land in Disneyland that might be kind tough to do, relatively speaking.

[00:23:30]>> True. We we actually talked about this, Vash, and I'm glad you brought that last part up. Me and OG did a video um talking about this cuz we we brought it up about Disneyland after dark events, >> particularly Star Wars. And we said, you know, basically the whole boring conversation was, you know, it's always the same thing.

[00:23:55]you know, you have Star Wars events and activities all throughout the park instead of the one land that it should be in. And I told him, I said, "Well, what if they allowed, you know, people that had reservations to come into Disneyland, right, and they had all the Star Wars activities in Galaxy's Edge, like all of it. So, the only way in the to get into Galaxy's Edge is the mere fact that you would have to have had that after dark event ticket, but Disney can really capitalize on having those guests that bought that special ticket for that event and also enjoying the rest of the park. And then you could just have regular day guests go in at night as well. So, it's almost like the best of both sides of the coin for them for revenue.

[00:24:50]>> And that's that's kind of what I see Epic Universe cuz I talked to Jared about this and even OG um about, you know, if if you want to do after dark events, each portal can really utilize Celestial Park as an extension for that portal. That's what Celestial Park I kind of see is for these portals for an after dark event. You know what I mean?

[00:25:19]>> That's a fair point.

[00:25:20]>> Well, well, let me ask you guys a question. Um, how does the Helios play into all this? Like does the Helios um will they get special like uh what's the word for it? Like like when you when you when you book a room at the Helios, right? You have to still buy a separate ticket for Epic, right?

[00:25:40]>> Right.

[00:25:41]>> So, with this open hub concept, would they maybe get a little extra maybe perk? Like you get the open hub, but maybe you get access to maybe a couple of these portals if you book a room. I mean, that would be kind of interesting, right?

[00:25:53]>> That would be kind of interesting. I never really thought of that. I The way I always thought about the Helios's implementation is that hey, anybody who's actually staying there gets access to the open home concept. Like so in this instance, right, it's only limited to convention goers in this particular test that they're actually undergoing.

[00:26:09]But going forward, if they actually widen this out or if they keep this open hop concept going forward, then like Helios by default, boom, you get access to uh Celestial Park uh at least it's it's its shops and uh dining opportunities after a certain time. I I think that's like that's honestly that should be like that should have been a thing on day one to be to be clearance with you and and again with that perk or maybe you don't have the after five limitation or whatever. Um you can charge more for the Helios with that with that, you know, uh perk there and and maybe Oh, gee, maybe it gets more granular. Maybe if you get concierge the Helios, maybe you do get access to the portals with that, you know, that kind of thing. You definitely do that.

[00:26:56]>> Absolutely. And we got Hey Bricky in the house. What is going on? Hey Bricky, everybody at home, make sure you subscribe to Hey Bricky on YouTube.

[00:27:02]Also, his secondary channel, Bricky Vlogs. We love Hey Bricky. He is an absolute awesome content creator and a great friend of ours. But he says here, "You remember when we all had cable and got all the channels for one price?

[00:27:15]Theme parks are starting to go the way of TV. Pay for the ticket and then also the lands and the rides. Double dipping times, too." Vash, what are your thoughts, man? I mean, he's not wrong.

[00:27:26]He is not wrong.

[00:27:28]Bricky is correct. Uh the the whole model of the modern theme park is not just selling the initial admission to the day guest. It's selling these parks multiple times per day. We see that with after hours parties. We see that with corporate events. We see that with, you know, a range of different options, a little range of different levers that these theme parks can pull in order to in order to sell, you know, the square footage multiple times a day. It's just it that I think this is the pathway going forward right here. Uh certainly I mean look it's old things become new again everybody's just waiting for these attractions to have separate you know tickets along with them right and then we're really back to this kind of >> the ticket booths are coming back they're coming back dude >> right right I mean it's it's uh it's what's old is new again um as these theme parks um you know really are battling for revenue especially with like you know like original theme parks for example, not doing especially well.

[00:28:28]At least the big change like Six Flags, United Parks and so forth. They haven't had great quarters. The big two obviously doing very very well. There's no question about that. Especially as it relates to, you know, some of those regional parks and chains and so forth.

[00:28:40]But, uh, the the whole idea is to, you know, how how do we extract more money with maybe less guests going forward?

[00:28:49]And so, that's that's definitely the thing.

[00:28:50]>> Well, we saw that recently with Disney's last quarterly earnings call. They made more money with less people.

[00:28:57]>> And I don't think Disney's crying about that. I don't think they're upset about that at all. I think I mean from from a business perspective, you're looking okay, we don't have to have as many cast members. And I I look, I I love our cast members, but from a business perspective, they're thinking less cast members are needed. And from a guest satisfaction situation, >> you have people who are waiting in shorter lines.

[00:29:21]>> True. I don't see the downside from Disney's perspective, right? Like you're making more money, but you're getting all this on the other end. So, it it's interesting. It's a very interesting kind of equation here, you know?

[00:29:32]>> It it is. I do think there's an there's an upper limit when it comes to that, right? You I think you can only charge so much before it's like people pull back. And if we see the per cap spending there, um people are are paying more obviously for experiences. I think a when as it relates to the earnings call uh the gains that they made in terms of per cap spending was was due to inflation more than anything else. Uh so so so people paying more doesn't necessarily mean that you'll get exponential revenue growth because people just go okay well I'm going to spend money for that I'm not going to spend money for this and so there there is a balance and and and delicacy there um that that that is applied also to um what is it the the the the valuation from guest perspective that could hurt you long term hasn't hurt Disney yet but I think long term you know it's it's a dangerous waters No, you're right, Vash.

[00:30:35]And I think I think you're right. I don't think it hurt it's hurt Disney yet. But I will say this. I'm a diehard Disney guy. I mean, I am. I love this company. I mean, I I started a YouTube channel almost a decade ago based on all this stuff, right? I love it.

[00:30:47]>> But Universal though with the after hours events, and I've said this before, but I mean, they are just doing a better job, dude. And it's like you can only even as a Disney fan, you can only experience that so many times before before you sit back and go, you know what?

[00:31:02]>> It gets old. It's it. Yeah, it's a better value. I mean, I paid $40 for FanFest with my AP. $40 and I got a nighttime spectacular with the One Piece thing and the whole nine yards. You're not getting any of that at a Disney after hours event. You're not getting that on Disney Channel night. I'll tell you that right now.

[00:31:20]>> Show or any of that. You know what I'm saying?

[00:31:22]>> Yeah. And there's that great survey of um what was it? lending tree that they published I think in July I'm sorry June of 2024 where like 45% of Disney going parents with young children have gone to debt for a trip and so forth. So it's kind of like it's definitely starting to hurt the consumer. There's no question about that. Uh whether or not they pull back, you know, obviously is the judgement to call and maybe uh Disney is more insulated from that than Universal, right? But the valuation OG I think you're not the only one making this calculus. I think a lot of people as well are making this you determination where it's like maybe value for money, Universal is a better option or some other theme park chain. So it's that I think if if Disney got caught in some trouble, it was with the opening of Epic Universe. I believe there was some cannibalization there. And when it comes to valuation, it's like, okay, well, if these if these two parks are the same in terms of price, I'm going to go with the the new hottest.

[00:32:22]you know, why go to Magic Kingdom, why go to Epcot, etc. when they don't necessarily have anything new. That right there shows the boundaries uh of the strategy.

[00:32:32]>> Well said. Well said. And Jared, you are back. I'll let you take over the hosting ability ability, but we we have Hey Ricky in the house. Hey, >> what's up Ricky? What's up? Now, I saw the comment. I mean, I've been saying and it's not this is not like scientific or anything, but it's like and I agree with you Vash. It hasn't hurt Disney yet, but this stuff works until it doesn't. when you're basically getting all your revenue from just increasing prices. And this also goes into listen I'm a capitalist but one of the weaknesses of publicly traded companies is now with investors it's like you got to show every single quarter you got to have more money and it gets a >> shortterm mindset and I think it's very easy to just fall into that and this is how you start cutting corners this is how well if we cut back on maintenance this is going to bring down an expense we can show more profits and and I think stuff like that like in a ideally it would just be a situation where it's like these parks run like you don't necessarily have to know all these things but I think with all of that in there it is kind of becoming like what c which is funny cable became streaming and now streaming is becoming cable >> everything old is new again Jared% like >> I love it >> see this in theme parks where it starts this and then you know if the consumer and I've said this whole time it's hard to fault Disney if I'm selling cups and I'm selling for 20 bucks >> Yeah. And then I sell it for 30 and 40 and 50. And people keep still buying it.

[00:33:57]Nothing changed about the cup, by the way. It's still the same cup. It's hard to fault somebody to be like, "Well, they're paying for it." Until I finally go to 80 bucks and people are like, "I'm not paying 80 bucks for that thing."

[00:34:07]Well, then what do I do? Do I lower the price? Probably not. You go into value.

[00:34:11]And I think this is what Disney would do. It's like you start really upping the value. Like more perks like Exactly.

[00:34:17]You got levers you're going to pull there, >> right? But it's still a thing where h like what is I would love to know with Disney. What is the price they want a single day ticket at?

[00:34:30]>> You know, I can answer that question right now. Whatever price whatever price people are not willing to pay anymore, >> they'll go as high as they can. It doesn't really matter. I mean, you you know, I think once people stop paying it, and that's why I get so frustrated with the Disney adults. I'm sorry, my Disney adults. I love you. I'm a Disney.

[00:34:49]I mean, we're all fans here. You know what I'm saying? But sometimes you got to look a little inward and and and kind of tackle our inner demons, right? And I think that sometimes the Disney fans are a little too quick to just throw their money at this company. I think if we pulled back a little bit in certain uh certain uh situations, I think we would have a better outcome because Disney would be like, you know what, we can't just give them $40 lemonade anymore. We have to actually provide something of value. You know what I'm saying? But there's so many people that are willing just to like any after hours event or anything that Disney gives us, we're going to take it. And that's the problem.

[00:35:23]>> That's true.

[00:35:24]>> It it's crazy the the reduction of value. I mean, it's not just the higher prices, which I think, you know, Disney is always about higher prices, right, Jared? To your point right there, upping the price of the cup, whatever. But, you know, it's it's like the the reduction of value as well with that. Like, for example, hey, Fastpass used to be including, not so much anymore. Magic B used to be included with your stay at at Disney hotels. You used to have Magical Express, you know, all the things that really created that sense of value almost gone, you know, and it's like it's like, wow, that's that's really something, you know. Card Walker, uh, the, you know, CEO of the Walt Disney Company, what in 1960s?

[00:36:06]>> I thought I thought he was early 80s. I could be wrong. Was he Epcot or No.

[00:36:10]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like right before the opening of Epcot. Um yeah, he was very much like hey like you know value is an important piece of our product and they were very much like hey you get tremendous value if you go if you come to the vacation kingdom because they knew of the expenses related to travel especially around that time. So the fact that that Disney company has stepped away uh so aggressively in this instance is is kind of uh is kind of shocking.

[00:36:36]Actually I do have um I got a chart for you Jared if you want to go ahead and share this one right here. Give me a second. I'll go ahead and share it on the screen right now. Let's see. Where is it? I had it. Okay. I I had it at one point. I may have lost it.

[00:36:55]>> No. Okay. Yeah. Here we go. Here we go.

[00:36:56]Here we go.

[00:36:56]>> Like 80 tabs he's got to figure out. So I >> Right. Right. Yeah.

[00:37:00]>> There you go. This is the famous one right here.

[00:37:02]>> Yeah.

[00:37:02]>> Um just how much especially since, you know, from the 1980s, right? Where Card Walker was Hey, see you along with Ron Miller. adios, you know, we're going in a different direction. Just how exponential this price has become in relation to other expenses like rent, wages, gasoline, etc. Uh, and this is this just goes to like 2020, not include the recent years. Yeah.

[00:37:28]>> So, it's it's aggressive.

[00:37:30]>> Well, and I think when you look at it, it's it's one of those things where so much of a vacation and vacations are different. I would say Disney World is in the business of creating memories or helping people create memories. And so a lot of a vacation is how you feel. And I think a lot of things that went into what made whether you're talking about Disneyland or Disney World unique were the things that the little things like you could be on a trip and the cast member does something special or you know an interaction with a with a a character, things like that. That that's not quantifiable on a spreadsheet. And I think so many we've talked about JPEG, but he's not the only one that that manages this way. And so you start looking at a spreadsheet and you're like, well, Magical Express is costing us like however much money per year.

[00:38:15]What if we just cut that? Well, you cut that. You got more money. Okay. Well, what's this doing? And then you start this and I think we talked about your live stream bash of like the efficiency stuff but you start cutting this out of rides where >> yeah stuff's running but the little touches aren't there anymore >> and these things don't show up on a spreadsheet >> and then all of a sudden all these things together and you're like what happened what's going on here and it's kind of like losing your soul a little bit of what you were and I I think that's kind of what Disney has fallen into a little bit here and really until there is push back on the pricing I Look at the Christmas and Halloween parties.

[00:38:51]They've raised those prices incredibly the past few years and they still sell out every year.

[00:38:56]>> So, there's no expensive for Disney. And now, if those weren't selling out, Disney might think, "Okay, we need to revamp these parties. We need to do something new. We need to look at maybe better pricing." But they're selling out. But, but see, you make an excellent point, and that's exactly what what Vash and OG said. As long as people keep buying them and and the events sell out, Disney's not gonna change.

[00:39:20]>> The only way to change it is to stop giving in so easily.

[00:39:24]>> Yes, exactly. And I I did actually did I will give Disney a little bit of Well, I'll give Josh Demaro some credit actually right now. I did a great video or live stream last night with the one and only Mr. Seymour Duck. It was a members only, but like we talked about Josh Demaro's like comments at that Disney upfront event and he was talking a lot about actually now look I get it like I I'll be the first to say it. Josh Giamaro has a lot of RZ. Okay, the guy can he's he knows how to game.

[00:39:53]He does. He knows how to talk. But really what he was saying though made a lot of sense. He talked about long-term building trust in the brand. This is a different kind of company. Vatch, you probably heard this on the Deadline article, right?

[00:40:06]>> Category of one.

[00:40:08]>> Yes.

[00:40:09]>> You know, and he was getting into this stuff about how like, you know, you have to make a longlasting impression on on guests. It's not like short term yada yada yada. Again, it's talk. We'll see how we actually follows through with this stuff. That's a whole different, you know, conversation. But I do like what I'm hearing. I think that's a good place to start. So hopefully this kind of >> like culture changes with tomorrow.

[00:40:34]We'll see though, you know.

[00:40:35]>> Well, and I point if if Disney is going to change, let's say that tomorrow is is implementing things. The things he's ch saying doesn't make sense.

[00:40:43]>> Disney is the biggest of the biggest cruise ships you can imagine of trying to turn that thing around. That takes a lot of effort, time, and energy to do that.

[00:40:52]>> So these are things that like maybe he is being forthright. They do plan on doing these things, but these are not things you're going to see immediately.

[00:41:01]>> But like, where does this look in a year, in two years? Is there improvements? And I hope I heard the same thing. I hope it's not lip service.

[00:41:08]If it is lip service, that's not going to be good on his look in the coming years. We said all these things and nothing changes.

[00:41:16]>> Fall through.

[00:41:17]>> Yeah, >> it's interesting you bring up Cruise Line, Jared, because why has Cruise Line exploded? One of the reasons I do believe is the all-inclusive nature of that product. right now they're trying to part some stuff out right there with bungalows and so forth or cabanas or whatever um in and a whole other um extra incentives to spend more money right but the the core product right there is really the all-inclusive nature of those experiences and why I mean that that business has just exploded for them partially why Thomas Mos got the job and all of that history connected to that um and for Justin Marorrow there there is a little bit of hope.

[00:41:56]Remember when Bob Iger actually originally came back? Remember they had that that big pow-wow right there where it was like, "Hey, you know what? We've evaluated the Disney park experience.

[00:42:03]We're rolling some some things back.

[00:42:06]We're providing uh more value days, for example. We're eliminating parking for hotel guests of Walt Disney World, which is just insane." you know, all a lot of different things in order to uh in, you know, I think improve uh the the the image of the Walt Disney Company from being that a nakedly greedy company maybe under like the JPEG era to something that was a little bit more friendly. Now, they didn't eliminate all those things. They didn't bring back a lot of the things that I think people were wanting like Magical Express for example, but there was some movement there in that regard. So there was a little bit more optimism in that but meaningful changes look experiences is the only thing OG it's the only thing contributing to the bottom line of the company at this point uh in a in in a very meaningful way with with the the the problem with cable is with cable out now in terms of that big you know year-over-year revenue gain for the Walt Disney Company where are they going to find that OI it's going to be the parks and it's going to be the parks for a while and that's why Josh Merrell is the guy but go ahead Okay.

[00:43:09]>> Well, well, real quick, we are getting a call in. Uh, yes, sir. We'll take your call right now.

[00:43:13]>> Apologize for not being the ally that you needed me to be.

[00:43:15]>> There you go. Beck chimed in.

[00:43:19]>> Sorry.

[00:43:20]>> Nobody's saying that.

[00:43:22]>> You can you can you can blame Vash for getting me the Roadcaster because I absolutely abuse it.

[00:43:28]>> Absolutely. I don't think you abuse it enough because I actually meant to put some shimones on my soundboard and I didn't get around to it today, but it is going to happen and you guys are going to be uh inundated with random sounds.

[00:43:40]But uh exactly every >> I see this is an absolute win.

[00:43:48]>> There we go. There we go. Man, >> the Bart Scott one from years. It was a post football game and they asked him like can't wait. I just always wanted to use that can't wait thing for something I'm looking forward to. Um but like it's it's one of those things where and uh Shirani excuse me Shan Norani said they don't want to lower prices because they are afraid >> what they will say to Wall Street and said they give out discounts.

[00:44:11]>> I don't think it's as much now some there is a Wall Street aspect to this undoubtedly I think tomorrow was a Wall Street pick if you were to honestly I think that's one reason why he got it because of the tech stuff and being you know technologydriven.

[00:44:23]But they're that's the interesting thing. If they hit a point where they raise these prices, and I've said too, like by the time these lands open at Disney World, don't be shocked if you're looking atund like $250 or or more for a day ticket. I mean, it's we're going to blow through $200 to $300 quicker than we did 100 to 200.

[00:44:39]>> Yeah. But it's like, what do they do?

[00:44:42]Let's say they put the prices at $250 and it's not moving like they want. What do they do then? And I don't think they're going to outright just say, "Okay, the base price now is 100 bucks less." They're going to do discounts.

[00:44:53]Yep.

[00:44:53]>> They're going to deal on the perk side.

[00:44:54]Like I don't A lot of it is the brand optics. They want to be viewed as this premier destination, which is why when Disney raises prices, >> Universal also does. Now, they want to make money, but they also want to be looked at in the same caliber as Disney.

[00:45:09]So, pricing does that. Same thing with Apple, things like that. So, a lot of it is how they want to be perceived. But then you have actual real world things going on with people not buying the stuff. That's whenever it gets interesting because then what do they do at that point and do prices just stick at that price point for a while until they feel like they can move it again?

[00:45:30]That's the part once they hit that I've always been theorizing like what would they do at that point >> and I think that's interesting.

[00:45:37]>> Now we have a we have a super chat. I don't know if it's for my channel or your channel, Jared, or Conductors or I don't know. I don't know. But Remy D, >> is it mine?

[00:45:46]>> I think so.

[00:45:47]>> Okay. Uh, with the $10 super chat, thank you so much, Remy D. Why is Universal not given the same scrutiny? In 1990, the price Magic Kingdom was $31.

[00:45:55]Universal Studios was 30. Now Magic Kingdom is now 570% higher than Universal Orlando is 480% higher. Not much difference. I mean, that's a fair point. That is a fair point that he's bringing up. I will say out here, I don't know about Orlando and Jared, you can you can speak to that way more than I could. Like, but like Universal Hollywood, I'm there all the time. Um, it's cheaper to get in, but once you're in, it's the same price essentially. Like the the food, the drinks, all that is pretty much the same as Disney, you know, but but you will pay less for your for your AP though, right?

[00:46:31]>> So, it's But I don't know how it is in Orlando, but go ahead, Jared. You can kind of touch upon that one.

[00:46:35]>> Similar. I mean, I think Universal doesn't get the same scrutiny because they're just not they don't have as many people covering it. As Universal continues to grow, and you're already starting to see that that scrutiny will follow, I think, because if you're looking at when you're looking at a market, when you hit about 35% market share is when you're kind of looked at as a co-leader. Universal is not that far away from that. I I think the last estimates I saw, they might be at 32% market share, somewhere around that ballpark, maybe.

[00:47:00]>> So, I think that will come. Uh, and a lot of the reason Universal does that again, they want they don't want to be viewed as the the B team compared to Disney. So, like a lot of that and of course they want to make money, but I think the scrutiny will follow for Universal, but it's just Disney's like they've been around for decades. It they're the number one destination. Like they're a welloiled machine. And I can tell you like going to Epic Universe on Thursday, going to Magic Kingdom on Sunday. Magic Kingdom is a welloiled machine. That park runs very very well for the most part. And and so I think a lot of these operations have been in place for a very long time. And so you have the tradition of Disney, how people remember it. That's why there's also a lot of scrutiny. And Universal just doesn't have that at least yet. I I I think they will eventually do that as they continue to grow, but it's not like Universal is a discount destination. I mean, a lot of times it can be cheaper depending on how you price it out. And the APs, there's various levels. Like the APs typically are cheaper at Universal.

[00:47:56]So it's like it just it just depends how you look at it. But I I I do agree the scrutiny isn't there as much, but I think it is starting to build up a little bit. At least in my opinion.

[00:48:06]>> Yeah. Because the more the more emotion you get behind like Disney has a lot of emotion behind that fandom.

[00:48:11]>> Yes.

[00:48:12]>> Like people are super emotional about Disney, right? So there's more anger.

[00:48:16]It's like parents, right? You're going to be more angry when your kid gets a D on a test than if like the kid down the street gets a D on the test, right? Like you're going to be more angry at your kid because you are more invested in your kid. you love your kid obviously, right? So, it's the same thing with Disney. I think people really really have this emotional connection to this brand. So, they're harder on it. There's a lot more heart into that, but that is changing a little bit. I do feel like there is that Universal fandom is coming up and a lot of people are getting emotional now about Universal. And so, I agree with you, Jared. I do believe there is going to be uh it's going to take a while, but like I do believe people are going to also start to hold Universal more accountable because they are starting to build that nostalgia machine and it's a double-edged sword here, you know? I mean, you it's it's a good thing for sure, but it also leads to more scrutiny. Go ahead, Mash. I do apologize.

[00:49:07]>> No, no, you're fine. You're fine. No, I think it's a a beautiful commentary right here. No, I remember Disney marketed itself for a lot of years as a right of passage, right? and they they really uh advertised themselves as like a middle class product. And so stepping away from that is definitely um a big shift, right? Big cultural shift. And people have a lot of emotions tied into that as you beautifully out uh out outlined. Also too, I think people inherently understand that the price aggressivity in this market is driven by Disney, not Universal.

[00:49:39]And that's the other kind of thing too where Universal gets a pass because kind of everybody kind of knows that Universal is just matching Disney. Now I think Universal also has a little bit more aggressiveness when it comes to their discounts and so forth like you know buy 3 days get two free that kind of thing where Disney doesn't necessarily do a lot of those same promotions. But this is why I think uh Universal gets a pass uh largely too.

[00:50:02]And look, I mean, if you're looking at 570 versus 480, it's still 100% uh difference there or just about.

[00:50:08]>> Yeah. And I think too when you look at >> Okay, Universal not not getting as much scrutiny also allows them to try more stuff. And I think you you're willing to try different things and be a little bit more aggressive on those things when you don't have the eye of Sauron on you all the time. Disney does >> Disney moves a trash can and people are going to write articles about it. And so that that's a a good and a bad thing if you're Disney because it means if you some of the changes are just going to get way more scrutiny whereas Universal can take some more chances and kind of operate more in ambiguity in some ways.

[00:50:42]So I think if you're going to take chances, which Universal is doing, I mean, they're the upand cominging destination. They're kind of like that team that's got the younger players that's trying to make a run for it.

[00:50:51]You're willing to make some moves that the person on top isn't. And and again, once you get on top, I mean, look at this in a sports analogy. How many teams that are just meddling never get much coverage and then all of a sudden they win a championship and all eyes on them.

[00:51:05]I think it's the same thing here, just a different way. It takes longer with these types of things. It'll come, but I think in the meantime, Universal can benefit from not as much scrutiny by trying some stuff like FanFest. Like that was a whole new concept they tried that could have crashed and burned and so far it looks like that's going pretty well that they can build off that momentum. Look at Jollywood Nights that got introduced and that was lambasted way more than probably FanFest would have been if that wasn't a good event.

[00:51:33]So, you know, things like that can it's a good and a bad thing. If you have the scrutiny, that means you are growing, but at the same time, it does kind of force companies to operate a bit differently, I think, whenever they do start getting more of that uh eye of of the crowds on them.

[00:51:48]>> Well, you know, a great example of this, right, where like there's pros and cons to this stuff, right? where it's like Disney has a lot of invested emotional connection, right?

[00:52:01]>> Which is great. I mean, any company would want that. Josh Demaro mentioned it in Disney upfront like we have that other companies want it. And he's not wrong with that, right? But with that emotional investment, like you were saying, Jared, your hands are more tied. So, for example, the Oriental Land Company over there in Japan, they are they are not owned by Disney.

[00:52:26]They kind of do their own thing. They, you know what I'm saying? They just license out the Disney IP.

[00:52:30]They have the freedom to bulldoze their Space Mountain and rebuild it with a whole new kind of concept.

[00:52:37]>> We don't really have that ability or we do, but Disney doesn't necessarily have the balls to do that because of that emotional connection. Do you think that the fans out here in the States would be okay with them bulldozing our space mountains and rebuilding them with something totally new? Probably not.

[00:52:52]>> After adventure, no.

[00:52:55]>> I mean, yeah, but that Yeah. And just in general, I just think that fans are very >> like I've seen crappy rides get pushed back. Like I mean it just there's a lot of push back and Disney's scared to make a move a lot of times because oh man if we get rid of this thing >> you know it's so it's like it's tough but you know we we kind of see what happens though in Japan when they don't have that same kind of those handcuffs they can do that they can bulldo that thing and reimagine it and like you know I wish we can have that unfortunately I just don't think the fandom is able to do that out here unfortunately you know >> I I think they they you know they're getting a little bit more aggressive when it comes to like Rivers of America for example. It didn't stop them there.

[00:53:41]>> That's true.

[00:53:42]>> I mean that's true. That's a fair point.

[00:53:44]That's a fair point.

[00:53:45]>> You know, it's like I definitely a lot of emotion tied up in this and I think um Thomas Muslim who spoke with WWE radio I believe uh talked about this as well. The emotional connection that people have to the products and and the responsibility that comes with that and all that stuff. I I just um you know it's uh I think I think Jared's right on. I think you were right on as well, but Jared for sure. This idea that um that they can Universal is allowed to take more risks because they're in second place. And and I I think we we we see that every single day with a lot of the maneuvers like I mean would Disney ever try an open concept? Probably not.

[00:54:28]But Universal, hey, you know what? Give it A SHOT. SEE HOW IT WORKS. LET'S DO IT. And and uh let's see what happens.

[00:54:35]And and so some of that experimentation actually amounts to some good things.

[00:54:39]Like for example, Wizarding World.

[00:54:40]Wizarding World, nobody had ever conceded a park like that ever or a land like that. You know, it's like the shops are way too small and stuff. It's like how you going to get people through here? Like you know, it just doesn't work in an operations level. And yet, well, it's unbelievably successful. And so it's like, okay, well that forces Disney to say, okay, well, well then we have to uh match that as well. So it's that it's that tug and pull that we uh see so often.