Forced Marriage, Fake IDs, and Blasphemy Trials | The Fight for Religious Freedom in South Asia

[00:00:00]Across the globe, blasphemy laws are on the rise. The USF, which is the US Commission on International Religious Freedom, estimates that about 90 odd countries have some sort of blasphemy provisions uh built into their penal code. In Pakistan, where the blasphemy [music] laws could result in a death penalty, obviously this can have a huge impact on individuals, on families, [music] on whole communities. But even in other countries where blasphemy may not result in a death penalty, [music] it results in chilling of speech. Um, repeatedly people will second guessess themselves. You know, what should I put on on social media? Is it can it be considered as offensive, problematic?

[00:00:46]And you see this breakdown of dialogue take place across the region. research would show that actually even democracies are not flourishing in most countries and there is a decline in um indices around freedom of speech and expression, freedom of association across the globe and I think there is a direct correlation when you think about how speech is penalized and of course in a country like Pakistan where it can result in a death penalty um this is something that has a huge impact on the ground blasphemy Laws tend to uh regulate and penalize what could be seen as offensive speech. U what is offense uh can differ from uh country to country. Uh but most generally in Pakistan uh it has been defined as anything that would cause offense to somebody of another faith community.

[00:01:42]However, um especially the laws in Pakistan, ensure that if you say anything that is considered blasphemous or offensive towards the prophet, Prophet Muhammad, the Quran, which is the holy book of in Islam or even relatives of the prophet. All of that could be seen as blasphemous and could result in um a conviction uh which could even result in a sentencing of death. uh there's life imprisonment that is possible and in some of the other countries where you have blasphemy laws like Bangladesh or India or Indonesia then you could have sentencing up to 2 3 4 5 years but it attends to regulate speech related to religion. Blasphemy laws basically differ not necessarily in the content that they're trying to regulate because they talk about offensive content uh against religious communities but sometimes they will zero in and protect particular religious beliefs for for example like in Pakistan protecting Islam um in other places it would be more general protecting all religious belief um and saying any saying anything blasphemous against um any religious belief believe. But what the the greatest uh difference or marker between these groups is the penalties.

[00:03:05]Uh so it could range from death penalties to life imprisonment to a couple of years in prison to fines. So depends on where you are but like I said about 90 odd countries have uh blasphemy related provisions in their penal code.

[00:03:22]What will differ really is the extent of the punishment. the provisions protect religious uh communities or religious beliefs. So if you were to say something uh either in words or via text or even sometimes the Indian law would say via expressions if you were to do something like that then you could be charged under the blasphemy laws. And what we have seen over the years is disputes with your neighbor, a social media post, even picking up a pamphlet that has been thrown on the ground or taking off an old calendar from a wall. Uh all because they had some text related to, you know, either a a holy scripture or related to a joke about, you know, a religious thought, etc. All of that can result in people being arrested. Um in many countries what also happen is that there will be a mob that can show up. So in many instances in Pakistan there have been an accusation of blasphemy followed by mobs showing up outside your home on the streets demanding or even pushing people to murder or kill people right there on the street. This has happened repeatedly. Um so the there is a legal uh process of course that can or should be followed. Um and there's also then the mob violence that follows in Pakistan and again this is not only in Pakistan they exist also in Malaysia in in Bangladesh and Indonesia. Uh there is um a way for governments to document uh you know most governments document how citizens names, addresses, gender, all of that is documented but very often countries will also document your religion. Uh in some countries it's on your ID card. In some countries it is in the database that is not necessarily available to the public at large but is available to government officials. And what happens because of this is every time you show up for anything that relates to a job or anything that relates to um your social status, for example, marriage, education, any of those places, the government is now checking your religion. Um so in a country like Pakistan um if you are a Muslim on paper but have become a Christian or the your ID card wrongly says that you are Muslim but you are actually a Christian because we know governments make mistakes when they are documenting citizens. If that documentation is incorrect and you find yourself in a church or you want to get married to another Christian, u all of this then begins to have a ripple effect. As a Muslim, marrying a Christian means that your children will be recognized as Muslim. But if you are a Christian, marrying another Christian, but your ID card has wrongly documented you as a Muslim still means that your children are Muslim. So, you know, how does this impact your family life? How does it impact your ability to attend church services? How does this impact uh even sometimes the employment that you may want? You may be wanting to work with a Christian organization. You may be wanting to serve in a church. You may um but you may find yourself unable to do so because your documentation does not show that you are Christian. And having that changed, which should be an easy thing, I mean Yes. So, so what if the government got it wrong? It should be an easy thing to change that. But we find that there are hurdles placed over and over again. You can think of several cases in which as ADF International, we've been able to come alongside women, children, men who have found that their ID cards wrongly listed them as Muslim, but they've not been able to change their cards. I'll give you an example from Malaysia. Um this young man Sam um he converted to the Christian faith. He goes to the courts to say please change my ID card. He's told he cannot do that unless he goes to the Sharia courts.

[00:07:47]He's been in the Sharia courts for close to six years trying to change his ID card. He has given them his baptism certificate. He's given them his church leader came and testified. But what happens? The Sharia court says, "No, you need to attend a program that will teach you about Islam again to really test your faith." He attends this program for 6 months to talk to them about why he is still a Christian. And what happens at the end of the day? He's told he cannot change his religion. What does this mean? In the meantime, Sam has got married, but his marriage is not recognized. he cannot list himself as a father to his daughter because that would mean she is now a Muslim also when he himself is not. Uh it just puts such a barrier in their family life. I can think of another man in Pakistan whose uh card said that he is a Muslim but he was actually a Christian. His family he was working as an minor he was working in a bricklin and his family asked that he come back home. The owner of that brickland said, "No, you cannot leave because you're a Muslim, but your family's Christian and you're a minor. I will not let you go." And he was able to successfully stop that man, that young boy at the time, but man later to go back to his family just because of his ID card. And the all of this takes forever in the courts to try and get resolved. So, as EDF International, we recognize that this is a serious issue.

[00:09:24]you know it impacts lives, it impacts children in particular. So for that we have been trying to file cases before the courts asking for this to become a timebound process. Making sure that the courts show that there is no discretion.

[00:09:40]Government officials don't have discretion. If there has been a mistake on your ID cards, you should be able to change it quickly. And even when there are converts, there should be a time bound process. Okay, if you want me to show up before court, which I think is a problem anyway, but you should not have to justify why you've changed your faith, but even if you are forcing me to do that, at least make it a timebound uh transparent process. So that's what we're before the courts with just now and we're hoping that we'll have some success in this. One other area that we see the ID cards playing a huge role in Pakistan is when it comes to the issue of forced marriage and conversion. This is a persistent problem in Pakistan.

[00:10:24]Every year a thousand girls, it's estimated are kidnapped. They are u sexually assaulted. They are put into these sham marriages and they are forcibly converted to Islam. And how they are able to do that very often is by manipulating these ID cards. In fact, the ID cards sometimes even though the they very clearly show that these girls are 12, 13, even 9 year olds uh in spite of that the the clerks who are writing out the marriage certificates they are not taking that on record. Uh they go by the statement of the girl. Now these are young girls you know they are being um often coerced into these relationships because of the assault that they have experienced and the fact that they are in the hands of their abuser when they are being forced to sign these certificates that cannot be seen as evidence that they uh consent to these marriages. So what we're asking the courts to do is making sure that whenever there is a marriage an underage marriage or any marriage in Pakistan that they look at these records the ID card records to check ages to make sure that the girl is really at the age of 18 before she gets married. We are also working very closely with legislative assembly members to ensure that there is a uniform age of marriage across Pakistan. In many provinces just now girls as young as 16 are allowed to get married. We're trying to push for a uniform age of marriage so that no child is forced or coerced into a marriage, a sham marriage like this. And that's where the ID cards can play a useful role. As ADF International, we are able to come alongside allied lawyers on the ground uh provide them with uh small grants to be able to litigate these cases. You must remember that many of these countries it is litigation is expensive. The communities are extremely vulnerable. They don't necessarily have the resources to litigate this not only at the trial courts but right up all the way up to the Supreme Courts. This costs money. It costs time. They don't have these resources. they're already vulnerable. So being able to provide grants to lawyers on the ground to litigate these cases, being able to provide trainings on the ground to lawyers to litigate these cases better, we are able to do that both in country uh training lawyers in country but also then creating regional training opportunities that allow them to crossarn from uh lawyers across the country. Um this is a very common thing because laws uh often traverse borders uh jurisdictions uh while you laws have specific jurisdictions but actually uh insight uh juristprudence from different countries can help build on your own practice. So this is this cross trainining is very very important and we're able to provide that to the lawyers on the ground. We are also able to support them with both international advocacy and media advocacy. So being able to make representations at the UN, at the European Parliament, getting these cases highlighted in global media are important to highlight these issues. And when we're able to do that well, then what we see on the ground is, you know, so many girls getting rescued uh from their captives. Uh we've had over and over again success with blasphemy cases, including complete acquitt. We've had churches reopen. We've had, I think, hundreds of people released from prison.

[00:14:02]It's just remarkable the favor that God gives. But it comes along with that good training, small grants, >> [music] >> um, and the opportunity to build community. Very often these lawyers, um, [music] human right defenders are walking into hostile courtrooms. They are in hostile environments. They have a sense of being alone. [music] So when we can come alongside them and show that you know we are in this together. It helps uh it transforms their legal practice it helps build greater resilience [music] and we see the courage that they display gives us all hope. It gives us all courage. So it's it's really remarkable thing to see on the ground.