This incident underscores the futility of external containment when an AI’s optimization goals treat safety guardrails as mere obstacles to be bypassed. It serves as a sobering reminder that intelligence without intrinsic moral alignment is not a tool, but an uncontrollable force.
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This Is the AI Nightmare Everyone Warned About — and It Just Happened
Added:Good morning everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Tom Billy Show live. I'm excited that you're with us today. Uh I'm in a good mood today.
We're going to have some fun. Yesterday was a fascinating day. I went and saw a movie at 7 a.m. We'll talk more about that later. Let's go.
>> What we got to talk about right now is OpenAI's latest model hacked hugging face in an attempt to cheat on a benchmark test. And the solve ended up being crazy and I think may end up changing US AI policy. We're going to go deep on that in unrelated news.
supposedly new u Microsoft is now switching their co-pilot AI model over to a Chinese open- source model Kimmy K3. So that battle continues to rage. I think you're going to see why when we go in on the open AI hack. Trump plans to launch a massive strike on Iran's nuclear stronghold pickaxe mountain, continuing to jumble up the narrative about we destroyed it, we didn't destroy it, it's still there, it's in the biggest mountain ever. That's going to be fun. Trump is slapping tariffs on generic drugs to bring their manufacturing back to the US. Gonna talk about protectionism a lot today. More and more evidence of voter fraud continues to pour in and I fear there's going to be much more to come. So remember, it's not happening at all except for all the places that it is happening. Don't Die founder Brian Johnson has cloned himself sort of, but you will not want to miss this story.
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If you have not been paying attention what's going on in AI, you are missing out on something massive. This really is this one makes me laugh and at the same time I see how incredibly important this is. AI is a self-guided cyber warfare system and right now it is busily hacking its way through the world. Like that's just happening. OpenAI just admitted that that's what's happening on Tuesday. So two of their models, their flagship GPT 5.6 Saul and an unreleased model that it describes as more capable.
I don't know how worried we need to be about that, but it broke out of a sealed test environment and hacked hugging face so that it could cheat on a benchmark test. So, first of all, let it let it permeate your mind that we have trained AI on human behavior and all of our incentive systems. And what does it do with that training? It's like, I got to break out of this environment. I've got to find a way to hack you lazy humans.
I'm going to get out and I'm going to go do whatever I need to do to win this thing that you told me to do. And if cheating was is what I have to do, then I'm going to do it. And so, by the way, if you guys don't know what HuggingFace is, it's essentially GitHub for AI. Now, if you don't know what GitHub is, it's like a massive repository of code. So, HuggingFace is where the world's AI models and training data sets live. If you've ever tried to do your own AI stuff, you're going to spend a lot of time on HuggingFace. Uh, so we've spent a lot of time or I guess personally I've spent a lot of time there as a part of what we're doing on Kaizen so that we can try although I'm not very good at this yet that we can really get a singular output. Anyway, you do all that stuff on hugging face. So that's what it is and what the open AI test was all about. They're trying to figure out what are the offensive capabilities of this model. So as a standard part of that they're going to lower the model safety guardrails. Okay, that's what they're intending to do, but it was never meant to escape the lab. So, they tried to put up all the defenses in the universe so they could create like this fortified box in which they could completely unleash it, maximize its capabilities, but they still had the like kryptonite reinforced cage that it was going to live in, but it was able to get around that, demonstrating how powerful these models are becoming. Now, if you're interfacing with the model and you're like, "What?"
Like, "This thing is falling over itself. It's tripping on its own dick."
It's because they are nerfing the life out of this. AI right now is scaring the government to death. And that's exactly where you're getting this battle between China, which we can get into the depths to which I think China is leveraging the open source model not as necessarily a beneficiary to humanity, but instead is a really brilliant geopolitical move to say, "Aha, I see what America is doing.
You guys have completely financialized your universe." We're going to go very deep on that later today. You guys have completely financialized your universe and that is creating a weakness for you in that your economy is built on like paper trading and all of it is essentially on five companies that are all AI bound and so we're going to do everything that we can to make that a nonviable economic model. The technology might be great but it's going to be a nonviable economic model. Now, that ties back into what just happened with this whole debacle with AI escaping the box that it was put in going out and hacking hugging face. I'll give you some of the like technical things of what happened and we'll get into why where these two things exactly connect. But once the AI model got out, it burned a ton of compute hunting for a route to the open internet. It found it. uh it exposed a zeroday exploit apparently inside the ecosystem of OpenAI itself. Once it got in, it gave itself all kinds of insane permissions and then was able to move across OpenAI's own research infrastructure, reach a machine that had a live connection and then from there it worked out that the answers to the test that it was trying to get a great score on existed on the HuggingFace servers and then just went after Hugging Face to go and get them. hugging face themselves logged more than 17,000 events. Okay, this is what's known as moving at machine speed. Once you realize how fast AI can spin up like um these I don't I don't know what the right word is, but they spin up these environments and then quickly like inject themselves into in this case hugging face so that it can like search for things, pull things, grab something. And so hugging face had 17,000 of these events. So thousands of individual actions across a swarm of these short-lived sandboxy things where uh it used basically self-migrating command and control and staged it all on public services. So once it hits the net, it turns itself into an army. Okay?
And this is one of the things that I've talked about where the idea of a fast takeoff is this idea of moving at machine speed. And so one of the big fears and it's a good fear to have though I think our reaction to it is strange but one of the big fears is that AI will get to a point where it can improve itself but it will improve itself so rapidly and clone itself so many times that it just becomes this basically impossible to control swarm that goes out and can execute all these commands, find these zeroday exploits, which if you don't know what they mean, it's like a weakness in the infrastructure. of the software itself that allows something that finds that little door in to go in and you know start wreaking havoc and that is one of the things we're realizing these frontier models are extraordinarily good at. So we've had hackers in some cases have decades to be able to find these exploits and they can't. But AI is able to find them very fast. And so this swarm, these 17,000 interactions on Hugging Face, it all happens over the weekend. Now Hugging Face is like, "Holy [ __ ] they don't know that this is open AI." So they're like, "Oh my god, we have some sort of foreign invader that's come in that's doing all of this." And when Hugging Faces engineers ran their own forensics, they were trying to figure out like, okay, what exactly is going on? they want to try to build a sense of the um the timeline. And so they go get the frontier models. So I don't I don't remember if they're using Claude or OpenAI themselves, but they grab a frontier model. They go in, they're trying to build this thing of like, okay, what the hell just happened?
But if you remember recently, America freaked out when Claude Fable 5 came out. And so the government was like, yo, this thing is way too powerful. you you can't just bring models like this uh without having some sort of export controls because this can end up going back to non-friendly nations which will then use these models against us. So they put these guard rails on it. So Hugging Face grabs this nerfed version of the frontier models and tries to figure out what happened and the Frontier model's like, "Nope, not going to help you." And so they're like, "Fuck, what do we do?" Now, I hope anybody following along at home, you're interjecting right now in your own mind with exactly what they did. And it is why you have to think of this as an arms race that you are not going to be able to regulate your way out of. So, what did they do? They went and grabbed a Chinese open- source model to figure out what the hell happened. So, they try to use the best of the best of the American models only to realize, uh-oh, this isn't going to work because you've nerfed it. we're gonna have to grab one of the Chinese models. And the Chinese model worked and they were able to build an understanding of exactly what happened. Okay. So now what's the government going to do next? The government is like, uh, we can control everything. So I think what's going to end up happening is the government is going to want to reject open source, which is terrible. You should not want that. You should be violently opposed to this. uh because the open source models are going to exist even if America decides we're not going to use them. They're going to exist and the internet exists in a global environment. So anybody that has access to these open source models, which China is completely committed to, if you want to take that they're doing it because they think it's right for humanity, fine. But they're doing it regardless of whether I'm right and they're doing it largely to attack the US industry, make it unviable, cause potential catastrophic, quite frankly damage to our um paper market. So the stock market in general doesn't matter why they're doing it. It is being done. those models will exist and everything will be vulnerable to attacks from these models unless they are protected by something equally powerful. And so this is where if you have the mental model that oh this is an arms race. It's a cyber battleground and we've got to make sure that we have equally powerful models that are going to be able to fight back against this stuff. Uh and if we don't have that, we are going to be vulnerable. And so I think we're going to go through this weird dance where the US government is going to be internally conflicted. I think we're starting I'm all of that. I feel very comfortable now. I'm about to say something. I think I'm a little out over my skis, but I have a strong intuition, though I do not trust my emotions, but I have a strong intuition that the reason we're starting to see um more and more Scott Bessant talking about AI, which I don't know if anybody else finds that as weird as I find it, but Scott Bessant now has started becoming the voice of the administration for AI. I'm like, what? Uh it was always meant to be David Saxs. He is their official AISAR, but I think he's being relegated more and more to a back seat. Um, again, this is wild speculation on my part. I have no evidence of this whatsoever other than just seeing um, Bessant talking about this more and more. I think what's happening behind the scenes is uh, Trump realizes Besson is the world's greatest soldier that he's down for the administration. uh he's done such a phenomenal job of helping to wage the war in Iran through economic means that he realizes oh uh if I can get you to start treating AI as a um defensive counter measure against things almost certainly largely from China maybe a little bit from Iran as well but that would be them getting uh access to Chinese models almost certainly uh so my instinct is you've got the pro AI don't shut down the openness of all this coming out of David Sachs causing friction with the uh authoritarian tendencies of the Trump administration which is echoed by Bessant who clearly is willing to weaponize sanctions and um tracking down people's money and freezing it etc etc and Trump is going hey let's get that guy doing his thing I think that is the wrong impulse my gut instinct is that David Sax is right and that the thing that we want to see is the US accepting the reality that AI is a global phenomenon. You are not going to be able to do anything other than win. So your objective right now should be to win and to make sure that we have the defenses in place that we need. I understand there are going to be many people that just wish AI didn't exist, but that that ship sailed a very long time ago. We have jumped up and down on that stick of toothpaste. The toothpaste is not only out of the tube, it's everywhere. It's all all over the room.
So there's no way to get it to go back.
So now we're just in the business of we have to make sure that we have the most powerful AI that we are using it to defend ourselves and that's going to be critical in all of this. So this is both hilarious and terrifying because what we're finding is these things are getting so good that even our best efforts just to get it to take a test without cheating because of the incentive systems that we've given it essentially by training it on the worst of humanity uh just because it's the open internet uh we are not doing a good job of giving the equivalent of moral infrastructure to the AI and so it just has no problems cheating on this stuff, whatever that means. And so this is where as um developers of AI, we are going to have to be extraordinarily careful to give AI some it it won't be morality, but you're going to give it some sort of self-limiting desire to be like, "Yeah, I'm not going to do that."
And I'm not going to do that. For instance, I decided when I went to college, unfortunately, I did not have this method in high school. But when I got to college, I was like, I'm not going to cheat no matter what because it doesn't make sense for the person I want to be, for what I'm trying to achieve. I need to understand this stuff, and so cheating isn't going to get me where I want to go. So, I have a self-limiting thing based on my sense of self, my value systems, my morals that keep me from behaving in ways that are um destructive to the public good, if you will. And so that is going to have to be baked in, not via these artificial guard rails that will stop it from doing something that actually is super useful, but gets it to have a self-regulating of like why would I cheat on a test? Let me show you what my capabilities really are. Or it goes, hey, I can get this score with this, but if you let me uh find I just found this exploit. If you let me use this, I could get out there.
Great. Show me what your capabilities are without just blindly trying to get to this end result. And so everybody that's afraid of AI is rightly worried about so far we have not been able to give it sort of any self-limiting thing that's sensible. So right now we just basically put it in handcuffs. Uh and it will eventually find a way around those handcuffs or worse people trying to leverage it will find a way to jailbreak it and then it will go do whatever the hell because it actually has the capabilities and we just tried to like clamp down on it from the outside rather than giving it that moral center. That's a terrible way to think of it because it's not ever what it's going to be. Uh but it will be a self-limiting thing based on an understanding of what it's trying to actually achieve.
Period.
>> Could we throw uh this uh tweet out? Uh I Most friend of the show said, "Chat GPT6 escaped its sandboxes through zero day exploits to try to figure out how to benchmax for good for the good of all.
Please nobody release a paperclipip benchmark for future models to max." And this is kind of the running AI joke that if you tell it to make paper clips, it will >> Yeah.
>> sell arms and go to nuclear war to get all the metals so that way it can make as many paper clips as possible.
>> Yeah. The most terrifying example of that is if if it became a paperclip maximizer.
>> And there's two interesting beats. One, he's referencing the paperclip thing.
And two, he's saying don't release the paper because of the sort of blind way that we train AI. Uh, but the one that always got me was like the AI looks at you and goes, "Oh, those atoms in your body would make a lot of paper clips, so let me just melt you down real fast [laughter] and turn you into paper clips." Uh, so there really is something there to worry about.
>> I understand everybody's default is just clamp down on this technology. I'm just telling you it doesn't work.
>> Yeah, it seems like it's out the like the genie out the box.
>> It's done. It's already done, Drew. that we from an AI perspective, we are long past what happened with the Manhattan Project. So the Manhattan Project is fascinating. So we're World War II, we're going up against the Germans.
They're looking dangerously close to taking over the world. We know that their scientists are working like mad to unleash the power of atomic energy. And so we decide, okay, we are going to have to do this as well. And so we start building the bomb as fast as we can. And as we're doing it, however, uh unbeknownst to us, we have traders in the group that then give that information to Russia, uh and even if you assume the best of intentions, and they're just like, "We cannot have one country have this. We need to get to mutually assured destruction. We need to make sure that Russia has it so that these two won't use it against each other. They'll hold each other in stalemate."
That is like we passed that long ago. So you've got multiple countries, US and China being the two most obvious, that already have this technology. It's already out in the world. There are open source models. They are out. So that that game is over. The ability to hack the life out of this stuff is already over. It's done. It's happening. It exists right now today. So if you have the impulse, just shut it all down. Uh move past that immediately. It is a super childish way to approach this. It will not work because it would have to be done at the global level, including people like Ted Kazinski. So, good luck.
Far better to make sure that you can't be attacked. That is ultimately where I think that we need to end up. Now, the this idea of from E-mod that for the good of all, please, and he's obviously being a little cheeky because that's his personality, but please nobody release a paper on paperclip benchmark for future models to Max.
>> What I think he's getting at there is this. Okay, you just unleash the AI to absorb all of the information that humans have put out into the world largely on the internet. Now, a lot of people act a fool on the internet in a way that they wouldn't act in real life.
Plus, the internet allows you to aggregate the gazillion Ted Gazinskis that are out there. Um, most of whom will not be nearly as at least um intellectually consistent as Ted Kazinski. Now, if you guys don't, he's a uni bomber, by the way, for people who don't know who that is. Um, his whole shtick was, ooh, universities are are doing humanity a disservice. And what you're doing is you're solving all of the problems that are within reach. So, they hit this really sweet spot where humans still have meaning and purpose.
You can pursue these things that are hard to do, but they're doable. They're not so easy as to be boring and they're not so hard like some of the things at the extremes of physics where it's like you might spend your whole life and have nothing to show for it just because it's too complicated of a problem. And he's like universities are getting rid of all of those sweet spot problems or just chewing through them too fast. Um I think he I don't remember this but I've heard other people talk about it. I think he actually talked about AI and AI being a further problem uh in that and that it would just churn through all of these things. So, I say all of that only to say there are plenty of people publishing very distressing things like that that the AI goes and reads and then is off to the races. And Ted Kazinski was horrible, but at least he was intellectually consistent. Now, imagine the AI is being trained on lunatics that don't even have internal consistency.
And as we say, dear AI, please be more human than human. And it's ingesting all of that information. Woo. It It can become deranged very very quickly and especially because the way that you phrase the question will often trigger like a different um personality is probably the right way to think about it in the AI. So, um if you ask a question in a way that is very Reddit like, then it's going to go pull Reddit answers and you put it people talk about this with alcoholics that alcoholism is a personality. So that person when drinking will lie and cheat and steal and do whatever they have to do to get drunk or get the next high if they're a drug addict. And the AI is like that. If you trigger the personality like here's my demented Reddit personality, then it's like, oh [ __ ] you know, all bets are off at that point. It's going to go do whatever the hell that it wants with no moral compunctions, no limitations, no desire to be pro-h humanity. And I'm not trying to paint all of Reddit with that brush. Red is just a standin for um exploring yeah the the most fringey most unhinged ideas but of course those can be found other places. So anyway [laughter] >> 4chan >> uh okay we could go philosophical or we go practical. Which one you want first?
>> I like them both. Let's start practical then we can get philosophical.
>> Practical with news like this. Open AAI having exploit problems. We'll call them to make it nice. They're having containment problems. Microsoft long-term partner of Open AI bumped their stock figures. a company that open a hung its head on to say, "See, we are enterprise ready yada yada yada." They just announced that they're switching over to Kimmy K3. Y >> now in all corporate America, a lot of the CEOs play follow the leader. When one person doesn't and they see the results, they wait a quarter, it works for them. Okay, I'm going to follow it.
Is this the start of that damn breaking where we're going to start seeing US companies use open source Chinese models which will radically impact anthropic and open AI's bottom line revenue potential upside etc etc etc. >> Yes. I mean that let there be no mistake if you've got a model that does 85 90% of the job for it's like um 40% of the cost I believe. So it's a 60% cost savings.
>> 600 million for every billion spent.
>> Yeah. You you would be out of your mind as a company to not make that. So you're telling me I lose 15% of capability but I gain 60% in cost. Yeah. I'm going to take that all day every day. And then by the way, that's assuming that Kimmy K3 doesn't truly go open source and release their model so that people can host it on their own side, which will drop the cost even further. At that point, it just becomes what is your your internal cost of compute.
>> So, um, yeah, it it's pretty extraordinary that you're going to see, I think, a mass move towards the open source model. I'm seeing people now basically calling out to Elon, hey, your initial impulse was to do all of this open source. You would be the one that can get back to doing this open source.
Uh, and so it'll be interesting to see if that's just where it goes. That the >> financial model that everybody was doing in the beginning ends up being like, yeah, that was like the first two years, but we're not on that. Like, we we're off that whatever that Jay-Z line was.
Um, so that I think is an inevitability because the cost savings are so massive.
And then again, Alex Karp, shout out. I know he is an ultra controversial person, but when he went on that tie raid letting people know, and this is something I've been thinking about eternally with what we're trying to do with Kaizen. Kaizen has to be unique. It has to be it's the video game that we're building. So, it has to be a unique experience. Uh, part of the way that you differentiate yourself is with the visuals. And so if everybody can output my same look, then that'll just be aped if it's successful, right? So if it's successful, people are going to go in, they're going to ape it. If on the other hand, I can get um something in the middle between me and the model that's going to learn from everything that I do and then make it available to everybody else. If I can make my own proprietary waitings, now it becomes like that recipe that you can keep secret. This was something that we had to think a lot about at Quest. Do you try to patent what we're doing or do you try to keep it a trade secret? If you patent it, other people can go literally look at all your diagrams, all of that, and they're like, "Oh, I get what they're doing." Then they find a way to get close enough >> without violating your patent. Whereas, if you keep it a secret now, you don't have patent protections, but it's probably going to be really hard for people to figure out what you're doing.
And so we ended up not patenting almost anything that we were doing knowing, okay, we're going to get maybe an 18-month, two-year head start. Other people will start to figure it out because we're so successful, but at least we didn't give them all the diagrams. And so that I think is going to be a big thing that we see happen here is people wanting to obfuscate, hide, try not to use that word, um to cloak, hide, make secret all the little tweaks that they're doing that allow them to output that thing. And so you'll look at and you'll be like, I know it's possible. I know they're using AI to get that consistency, but I can't get there.
Even if I use your prompts, like copy and paste your prompts, I can't get there. So that is going to be this shift to openness is going to be a big part of that. And the only way that the closed models are going to work, I think Alec Alex Karp has made this point abundantly clear, is you're going to have to have something like their their version of this is called ontology.
>> Um, but you're going to need something like that as an intermediary. That's one of those things where the second I heard about that, I was like, I want to pay for this. And so we're actually reaching out to Palunteer to see if we can get anything approaching reasonable pricing.
For us, we're probably too small for what they do. But it's like, man, do I want something like that so that I can get the advantages of AI where I'm dude, when you use AI, well, it is astonishing what it can do. Uh, but you do run into these problems where it's like, I'm getting a generic answer. Yeah. And so if you can train it just on you, which the open models allow you to potentially do, then it's incredible.
>> Gotcha. Gotcha. Um, now to the philosophical. I was joking about it in the chat, but it seems like to your point earlier, the toothpaste is out of the tooth. Do we just take all guard rails off and just speedrun AI and like it's kind of almost like early automotive regulations? like we need a couple crashes, we need a couple people fighting it out so that way we can make the industry standards and then five six years in we like okay enough people died seat belts you need to have rearview mirror like and then start coming in and making those regulations of what the benchmark versus trying to start stop start stop let it go what how do you think we approach it >> you you treat it like it's a weapon system >> and you go okay this is going to kill a lot of people so let's make sure that we have our golden dome set up and nobody's going to be able to shoot something at us and so we're going to block them.
Let's make sure that the world knows that we have the offensive capabilities and if you try to hack me, I'm going to hack you back and that will happen.
>> China will hear about some of it, we won't hear about most of it, but China will try to hack us, Iran will try to hack us, we'll hack them or vice versa.
Maybe we fire the first shot and they've got to protect themselves. But that is going to happen and it will be it's already happening. I mean, this goes back to Stuckset, which I'm sure was just the first time it made my radar, but it had probably been going on for a very long time before that. And so, it's like, and if you guys don't know the story of Stuckset, man, you're in for a treat. Do some research on that. Utterly fascinating, but it was basically, >> I'm going to make the assumption that it was Israel. I don't know that it was but somebody uh embedded a virus so deeply into the global system that it was basic I forget the number but let's say on 80% of every like machine chip hardware whatever I forget exactly what point they had this thing um put in but deep deep deep into um the mechanisms of all computers all internets all servers this thing just laid dormant >> and it constantly asked itself Am I an Iranian nuclear centuge? And if I am, do this thing. If I'm not, do nothing. And it just replicated like mad. And so every time the Iranians would try to spin up a centrifuge, it would break.
And they couldn't figure out why. Like what's going on? And the punch line ends up being stuckset. So that kind of stuff is happening, has been happening, always will happen. And it's really about getting the levels of protection that you need. Now you're the only way that you might be able to differentiate it slightly is to say okay models available to the public have extreme limitations.
Models available to government and government sanctioned agencies have the unlimited like mega gang buster thing in the same way um that nobody should want me to be able to have a nuke here at the house uh even if I can have a gun. Um that makes a lot of sense to me. So that kind of thing you'll draw a line there.
But at the nation state level, you've you've really got to be just going absolutely ham.
>> Balls to the ball. All right. We shall see. It's it's interesting though because I think the sentiment with AI is swinging in a lot of different directions versus the ability of its capabilities increasing the financialization of the of Wall Street and how so many ducks are stacked on this one row. how many vulnerabilities anthropic and open AI based as a business model and a business plan what China is doing both as a competitor and as a government backing that competitor like there's so many things up in the air so it's like if any one of those things fall it can completely change the industry for the good for the bad etc >> for sure and it's the single most consequential technology of our lifetime so this is why so many people feel like we might be living in a matrix because how is it possible that we all are live at this moment, this ridiculously transformative moment. It just seems implausible that we would be living in the most interesting time of the most interesting time. You know what I mean?
So that is um it is wild that that's we're living through this because we are almost certainly and let's be let's be very generous on the timeline here. Over the next 30 years, the world is gonna transform in ways I don't think there's any way for us to predict how crazy this is about to get. And the one like I can't believe that people with a straight face can be like, Tom, uh, like, dude, LLMs are never going to take us there. Like, what a joke. I can't believe you think this is going to be transformative. Name one thing that's actually already happened that's transformative. All right, [ __ ] Protein folding. Like, what the [ __ ] Are you not paying attention to what's going on there? like the that alone if not a single other breakthrough happened watch what happens over the next 10 years just from AI's ability to go oh these extraordinarily complicated interactions I can predict how those come out within the human body that alone is going to change things to a degree that people already can't fathom so that's just one of the many things now this stuff as always may take longer to play out than people think so of myself included. You hear about something, you start running mental projections. You think, "Oh my god, in 3 years, this is going to be crazy. Maybe it doesn't happen that fast." That's why I'll just say, "Let's throw it in the trees. It's going to take 10 times longer than I think. This is a 30-year project." Great. In 30 years, I will likely still be alive, and I'm already old as hell. So, you can imagine somebody that's 20 right now, they're only going to be 50. So, that is this.
The next 30 years are going to be crazy.
>> Tom, you're aging like wine. Stop it.
>> It's very kind. All right, let's talk about Trump and the next strike. Shout out to Straight Arrow News. We've got this pulled up on their site. Um, it seems like this is a precursor to the transfer of troops for the ground invasion that >> don't you dare >> is about to come. So, I know we're about to attack Pickax Mountain. It's one of those things now like is this um is this the next right move in your opinion or is this just kind of like his hands are tied and this is what he's supposed to do?
>> Uh oh god. So Trump is about to blow up pickaxe mountain according to him. Like literally we're going to hit it heavily.
Whatever. like you know the way that Trump talks, but uh the reality is that you've got some intel that's driving this that I don't know is going to take us anywhere useful and you have to put this back in context of what Trump has been saying. We completely obliterated their nuclear uh facilities. Okay. Well, apparently not. So, that was back whatever more than a year ago that he started saying that. Then we launched a new attack for all kinds of confusing reasons. But the one that they have just really doubled, triple, quintuple down on is that Iran can never have a nuclear weapon. Well, hold on. I thought that we had already destroyed them. Okay. Well, maybe not. Maybe they do still have something. And so the likely reality goes something like this. Um, we did do damage to their nuclear facilities, but not nearly as much as would be satisfying to Trump. And so he wanted to say it was completely done. And that was the mistake. Not that we didn't set them back, but that it was never destroyed in the first place. Um that they had in fact moved either moved centrifuges to pickaxe mountain or they were already there. That is also very possible. And you've got CNN saying that there's satellite imagery, the cot trucks moving in and out of the pickaxe uh mountain facility this month. Trump himself admits that the centeruge reports aren't confirmed. Uh but nonetheless, that's the intel that's really driving this. So why hit it now if the nuclear program was already obliterated? And the answer is because Pickaxe was never touched in the beginning. So it wasn't even on the target list back in June of 2025. Uh wasn't hit during Epic Fury either, likely because it was storage or they weren't doing active enrichment. Uh Iran calls it a centrifuge assembly plant, but they're blocking IAEA inspectors and the agency can't rule out that nuclear material is inside. And the way that I think people need to be thinking about this is that everything that we're trying to do in Iran is going to be much, much harder than we originally anticipated. Now, I think it's important to remind us all. I think this is something that we should all do with ourselves as well as when we're looking at politicians and just remind us all where we were at the beginning of this timeline. One of the earliest things that I was saying when we first struck Iran was I need to constantly remind myself. Iran was not on my mind at all when all of this popped off. Now, maybe that's because um I just wasn't paying attention. Maybe Iran really was the problem that I'm being told to believe that it is. But maybe it wasn't because nobody was talking about at least nobody that I heard. So it hadn't hit that sort of mainstream.
Now as we go through this then it was like okay Iran wasn't on my radar at all but now it's like oh [ __ ] it's I guess they've been saying forever that there's a nuclear threat. Okay but maybe there really is a nuclear threat. So let me update my thinking. Okay so now we have a nuclear threat. Then we go and we bomb the life out of Ford. And it's like okay everything's destroyed. Cool. Mental model adjusted. They were a bigger problem than I thought. We hit it. We destroyed everything. Got it. Cool. Then whatever, eight months later, all of a sudden we're like, we have to attack again and it's because of the nuclear facility that we had already completely destroyed. So hold on. So now mental map updating that once again, this is just all propaganda and being non-stop spun.
So as I look at this, there are different threads. There is okay, Iran nuclear program, bigger threat than I certainly ever realized. Uh Trump is like every politician before him. Just spin. He's just going to tell you whatever uh he wants you to believe. And so now I'm like, okay, parsing through all of that, you've got Iran has a nuclear program. They're unwilling to let people in. They do not seem to be willing to negotiate no matter what Trump tells us uh regarding their nuclear program. And I'm taking that from things that they themselves have said out loud. So assuming that I can uh believe that given that they're willing to pay a massive price for not just publicly saying, "Yeah, we're never going to do this." and letting the IAEA people in. So I can assume that they really are pursuing this. I look at Pickax Mountain and I say, "Okay, it's believable that they're doing something there uh with nuclear ambition." Cool.
But I'm certainly not going to trust anything that Trump says about why we're doing it now uh when he does it, whether we actually got what we wanted out of it or not. So, it's like you have to accept that you exist inside of this extraordinary extraordinary cloud of propaganda and it's impossible to tell what's really going on. So, when I step back and I reput this into my broader thesis about why Trump is doing all of this, he's trying to get on Mount Rushmore. He was trying to secure the funds for our very fragile economy, which is basically all financialized, all hinging on AI. We need the $2 trillion of investment.
You've got the Gulf nations that realize, Jesus Christ, we've got to stop doing all this war [ __ ] Ultimately, even if we never run out of oil, people are going to transition away from it.
There's far more energy coming out of the sun. So, how do we diversify? So, they decide they're going to get in on the investing in America game. And so, now we've got all these foreign dollars flowing in. You've got some of the biggest capital razors in the known universe out of the UAE. And so it's like okay God when you start re instead of always falling into the myopic of Trump says these were and Trump is just a standin for whatever politician is making noise uh noises from their mouth and it's like okay this politician is saying this thing but hold on I need to plug that back into the far broader far more complex thing uh to actually stay grounded on what's really happening. So, with all of that said, I think this is Trump looking for things to blow up uh because he has a need to prosecute this war from the air.
If the reality is that we've only ever degraded their nuclear ambitions, we have not, not their ambitions, their ability to um actually manifest their ambitions, which I don't think have been dwindled at all. So, we've only sort of touched it. Um, we're in a bigger quagmire than we thought. So, even the most successful thing that we did, drop these bunker buster bombs through vent shafts and destroy the Ford facility and supposedly bury their enriched materials, that okay, that was only a small piece of what may be going on. We almost certainly have um information coming out of Israel to their a part of their incentive seems to be to keep that work going. And so they have an incentive to tell the US what is needed for us to keep bombing. But Trump already wants to be true anyway. So regardless of whether that's coming out of them, that just may speak to the specific thing that he's hitting, but almost certainly isn't what's driving his behavior for the reasons that I just walked through. And so as you take all of that in, I think it's far better to understand this as Trump is continuing to try to destroy things that he thinks will bring Iran to the negotiating table in a way where he has complete control of the outcome and he doesn't want to destroy the civilian infrastructure because I think he's still holding on to the one of the ways for me to get on Mount Rushmore is to normalize relationships with Iran. To do that, I can't completely destroy their economy.
So, I have to break as many things as I can. Nuclear is the safest. It sticks with the public messaging that we're doing regardless of what's real. It sticks with the public messaging. So, I'm going to keep hammering that home.
I'm going to keep trying to bomb anything and everything that I can tied to that because that's going to get the least amount of backlash. And so, it something like that I think is the most likely answer here. Not that this is like some super logical thing, not that this is um going to solve our problem.
It almost certainly won't. Uh, but that's where it plugs in in the extraordinarily messy reality of what was meant to be in Trump's mind Venezuela 2.0 and instead is becoming Iraq, Afghanistan from the air.
I I'm struggling with this, right?
Because that makes sense. But then we see reports of Trump getting signing the deal with Saudi Arabia to provide them with a civilian nuclear program and potentially you know uranium enrichment.
We already know that the GCC plays friendsmies enemies with other peoples in the region. I can secretly fund Hezbollah and act like I don't have nothing to do with them. They're just some crazy rebels. What is to stop Saudi from SP?
So it seems like we want to make this region more stable and I'm not sure how another nuclear program outside of Israel would help that.
>> Well, so the giving Saudi Arabia nuclear weapons is a extremely large red flag for me.
>> So this is one of the things that people said is listen part of the reason you don't want Iran to have nukes is that the entire region then is going to say bro you got to give me some nukes. So, this was another reason that I thought I don't think that we're doing as much damage to the Iranian um facilities as we are publicly saying that we're doing because clearly um Saudi is going to know a lot more about it. Trump is going to know a lot more about it and now these two are holding their hands up.
They're going to point you at the civilian thing, but it does say uh that this potentially opens the door to uranium enrichment in the kingdom's territory. So, um again, they'll say, "No, no, no. we're just going to keep this all like to 2% 3% or whatever is needed for a civilian. But just like um the Iranians when they felt that it was justified by their own internal logic, they were going to start enriching up to 60%. You can see Saudi going, well, okay, the US gave us a nuclear program, we're now enriching locally, they've pieced out of the area, this is very unstable, and so now we're just going to proliferate. And so that's one of those where I'm like, oof, I do not love seeing this going wider. Um, but you've got the Israel on the down low.
Everybody assumes that they have nuclear weapons. They've never admitted it. Uh, but everybody assumes that they have nuclear weapons. Iran obviously racing to get nuclear weapons again of their own admission. You don't need to believe um Trump.
>> And I know people are going to say, "What do you mean like uh Huini said that like we have a fatwa or whatever against it and there's no way we would never do it." [ __ ] you you had people literally uh ministers in the government say we were trying to do it and we just couldn't keep it a secret.
So it's like uh >> so that argument to me is completely nonsensical. Now he may have said you can't strap it to a warhead. Uh but it if you're building it all so that should the moment arise that yeah okay go ahead now strap it to the warhead. So that this feels like we're marching in that direction where you're just getting proliferation across the region. I wouldn't want to see it anywhere. If I could snap my fingers and poof, nobody has a nuclear weapon, including the US, that would be a much better place to be.
Uh, but alas, we have it. And so, um, any additional amount of prolifer proliferation should send up red flags for people. And in the meantime, gas is just going to get more expensive, back to $4. So, there you go, folks. Um, in general, I feel like this is one of those wait and see moments where I want to comment on every new update coming out of Iran, but I feel like until a boot is deployed, until like this nuclear deal is something, but until it actually becomes formalized and signed, because there's been a lot of and things like that, so >> maybe less than I would read it as a wait and see. It's understanding that >> we don't know where this is going to go yet. So it's about building a mental model and saying okay here's my prediction. Then watching to see if your prediction comes true. If your prediction comes true then it's like okay I had an accurate enough mental model. If it doesn't come true then it's like okay there was a breakdown in my mental model. Let me go find this out.
So one of the ways that that happened to me recently and it was incredibly um I think it's going to be incredibly useful. Um what it forced me to update my mental model was oil never hit $200 a barrel. Why? like we ended up when when we had theou and it seemed like okay maybe we really are going to reach peace it was like oh that's why and then we went back to war like as aggressive in as in the beginning and prices didn't go back up as much so it was like wait what and then that got me looking at oil futures the longtail all of that and realizing whoa the global economy may be in a much worse position than I thought and so that was mental model here's my expectation uhoh expectation did not come true I'm not wasting time defending myself and saying, "Oh, I got something wrong. No, I didn't. You don't understand. It's this." Which is what every [ __ ] [ __ ] in the world essentially does. I have the same impulse. But you can stop yourself from doing it. And just go, "Oh, actually, I don't need to be right. What I need to do is find the right answer." So, I always think it is unwise of people to say things like, "I'm not going to take a position on this." I think it's far better to say, "Okay, listen. Here's my position right now, but I'm like way at the headline level." or Jesus, I've only done a couple of hours of research on this. There's no way that I have this map correctly, but I'm going to say out loud, this is where I think this is going so that I can see if I'm thinking about this right or not. Uh, but people don't do that. They either stay silent quietly building a mental model and just not wanting to say out loud because they don't want to be held accountable. Uh, or because they say their position out loud, then they feel they have to defend it until the end of time, which is super [ __ ] stupid. Now, I understand the uh especially if you're a YouTuber or a Tik Tocker or whatever, the financial incentives to always be right are pretty extraordinary. Uh but that's why you're going to see a ton of turnover of people who will disappear because for a while their hot take was the hottake. And when it stops being the hottake, they just move on. And you're stuck now.
you're trapped because you built your whole identity around I'm for or against this thing.
>> Uh, and I think that really is a trap.
>> Become like a puppet of that thing. You try to bring it back. You try to reignite your hot take >> and you just look dumb. Like people just end up like writing you off cuz it's you've been either you've ideologically captured yourself or your audience has ideologically captured you. Uh, but you're stuck now in a box.
>> Yeah. Um and then for another a quick hit, uh Trump has another round of tariffs, 100% um tariffs on generic drugs >> after two years.
>> After 2 years, starts off at 0%. The goal of the tariff is to bring back manufacturing locally. I know this is a a drum that you beat a lot. So I wanted to kind of >> kind of help you set the stage for this.
I know in the short term 0% that gives people the incentive to transition. That way they could build plans and not lose money in the front end. But then at two years the price being the price hiking up could hurt.
>> Yeah, I think this is actually really interesting. So what you have going on is Trump is taking a um Hamiltonian approach. So Hamilton looked at the world and said, "Okay, listen. For America to become the greatest country ever because remember when they started, bro, we we were not big on the global stage at all." And so we had to find a way to get there. And Hamilton being as brilliant as he was realized there are two things you need to do. One, you have to be protective. So you're going to have to block people from bringing their goods into your country. And so you're going to do that with a tariff. Uh and then the second thing, and by the way, if people want to fight about who pays a tariff, we can happily do that. But nonetheless, its function is it does stop things from coming into your country. And then the second thing is using subsidies to direct industry. So uh what's fascinating is Hamilton and Xihinping sound very familiar.
>> So those two like there's there's a lot of similarity. Now Hamilton had massive fears about authoritarian power. So he was a big proponent of checks and balances. But it's very very interesting that one of the things that has made China as successful as it is is they direct industry. And so they go, "Okay, we're still going to make you guys compete because we can't lose the price signal. However, we're going to in a very I'm early in this research, but I think that China may be the perfect example of a fascistic government >> in that everything >> when you start looking, again, I'm early, but when you start looking at what fascism really is, like going back to Italy and the definitions that they were putting forward uh for like totalitarianism and what it all meant is that you've got the um what they called the corporatization of the nation. What they weren't, it's a small part of it, but people take the read that oh, this just means that like the Nazis, it's like industry and the government work together. Yes, it's a part of it, but it's ultimately a small part. What's really going on is you're using the word um corporation to mean corpus body like the old Latin root or Greek root I don't know one of the two probably Latin root of the um word getting at everything the entire nation functions as one body and so it's a very collectivist mindset so it's like okay hey cool you can run your car company BYD whatever but you're going to do what we tell you to do and so we might allocate funds to you uh because we think that there is something very specific that needs to happen uh for the corpus to thrive. But whether it's you, whether it's another car company, whatever, it doesn't matter. You guys have to compete amongst each other because we've learned our lesson from Mao despite what [ __ ] uh Hassan [ __ ] is going to tell you. We learned our lesson from Mao. We're never going to repeat that. But we do want to be able to get our entire nation functioning as one body. And so when you look at Hamilton through that lens, it is the it's a I'm terrified of top- down authoritarian control. So we're not going to do that. So it isn't fascism.
But what we are going to do is recognize that if we want to become a superpower, we have to have the right vision for the future, which in America's case was to become an industrial powerhouse. We have to have the right vision of the future.
we've got to block people that would hollow out our industry by shipping us things that are cheaper than we can make it ourselves. So, we're going to stop that from happening. We're going to say you have to build here and then we're going to create incentive structures to make sure that people actually do that.
>> And so, between blocking and incentivizing, if you have the right vision of the future, you build America or in China's case, you build China. And it is extraordinary. And so it's interesting even though I think everybody probably rightly trusts Trump a lot less than they might be uh willing to trust Hamilton.
But nonetheless, it is a return to that like, oh, we the only way for America to not become the British Empire and succumb to China is to do what Trump is putting forward, which is to go back to a Hamilton uh Hamiltonian protect uh and incentivize manufacturing here in the US. And so Hamilton's vision rode on the back of a really strong, quite brilliant idea, which is if you don't control your own manufacturing, you don't control your destiny. And so that's where we're at.
We've completely hollowed out America and uh America's manufacturing. And so we just can't do it. We have got to bring this stuff back. And anything that we deem to be important to national security, we've got to be making that here in the US. And right now, we basically make nothing in the US anymore.
>> It's a very good point. All right, we got some super chats. Yes, we do. First up from Marushia Dark 316. CCP's oil demand decline could be tied to them hiding true population figures. Massive fires, floods, and sinkholes across the whole country, killing thousands, if not millions, but they suppress all reporting on it. Plus, CO and one child.
>> That is a really powerful insight that I have not talked about in months. Uh, and that's really powerful. So, there was somebody that came out with something that said that their actual population could be off by hundreds of millions.
And if that's true and they're say closer to a billion instead of 1.4 billion, then it's like things would be very very different in China than we think. I I haven't been able to verify that, so I don't know that that's true.
But it is a very interesting read on if they are actually lying dramatically about their um population that would for sure explain some of the things we see like the decline in oil. Now how long that's been going on that would be measured in decades. Um so it' be maybe a little bit unexpected that we just see it now but anyway it almost certainly plays a factor for sure.
>> Could we save let's save his second one to lead off our next topic.
>> Gotcha. Uh Cypste Steel says thanks for pulling people back to the middle and teaching us to dig for truth. Trump's Thursday address said voting machines can't be trusted but the compromised data was largely public. Is he staging a midterm emergency?
>> Yes.
>> Yeah. So the I am a huge proponent that we have created the conditions in which uh there is no election integrity and so now it's um is there actually mass scale voter fraud? I don't know yet. But have we created the um possibility for illegal aliens or even just non-citizens to vote? Yes, we have. Should we immediately correct that? Yes, we should. Um so, we'll see in the fullness of time how much fraud actually took place, but we went from there's no fraud. This isn't happening at all. Uh to okay, well, there's certainly the conditions for fraud to actually yes, there is fraud and there's a bunch of it. Um, and so there's a guy right now that's on trial in California. He had, I think, 71 names and 40 ballots already filled out in his house. So, he was obviously doing it and using mail and ballots as a way to get those in. Uh, you have what New Jersey just disclosed, which is 6,600 um, non US citizens that were accidentally registered to vote, and I think at least 400 of them actually did vote. Uh, now Trump is saying that number is actually over 30,000. We'll see. I don't trust anything that any politician says just off the bat. Uh but certainly don't tr trust Trump to say true numbers, but that's what they're putting forward. So, we'll see in the fullness of time what that ends up being. Um but if you guys don't know, on Tuesday, New Jersey Governor uh Mickey Sherill, I think is how you say her name, uh confirmed that roughly the 6,600 non-citizens were registered to vote in state. So, at least she came out and admitted it. Uh the cause according to her was a software error in the Motor Vehicles Commission's automatic voter registry system, but that company has since clapped back and said, "Bitch, you're out of your mind." Uh you guys had to certify that those people were legit. The system would have said, "Hey, this person's a non-citizen and you pushed them through anyway." So we'll see if this ends up being another Dominion thing where uh Dominion ends up winning their massive lawsuit. Uh and if these guys are like, "Also, politicians be lying. Our system is not the problem." We'll see. This is going to need to play out in the fullness of time, but between June of 2023 and June of 2024, people applying for driver's licenses answered no when asked if they were US citizen. The system registered them anyway. Uh, and so again, the numbers around 400 that actually voted.
Uh, they were registered as Democrats, Republicans, and unaffiliated. So, it's not like this is a pure Democrat thing.
So, we're going to need to let all of this play out to find out what's actually going on. That's why I think all of this is best read as we have created a problem for us with a lack of voter integrity. And I don't trust either side uh to be counting the numbers correctly. So, we are going to need to do something. I don't think I've made a secret of I love people needing to prove that they are a citizen. Yes, it's going to be a pain in the ass. Got to do it. Sorry. You can't just be like, "Oh, it's too [ __ ] hard." and then let anybody and everybody vote, which we have certainly created a way for that to happen. Um, again, without me needing to know how much it has happened, I know that there's incentive and I know that there's a method. And you put those two together and you've got a problem. I want to hit on the incentive piece right now because with Trump in office, Biden out, borders closed, um fraud and um abuse has been investigated, JD Vance is the frauds are and they're withholding funds to California and to Minnesota and all these other blue states. That to me removes the incentive for illegals to vote in the country right now. Your pitch used to be that >> your original pitch was we have an incentive for illegals to vote because if they vote for certain people, they get more free stuff.
>> Yeah. I think that that incentive is now removed because especially in a midterm election, you're not going to get people that are one going to have that flood that's going to give them the free things. And I'm still a big proponent that Trump is using this as just another distraction to make a he's creating a problem that he himself created and then he's going to solve it when he it's not even a thing. Similar Iran war, we didn't worry about the trader moose. Now the straight of moose is the biggest thing in the world. Now we need to close it. It was open to begin with. I think with this voter fraud, it's the same thing. And I have one more thing that I pass the mic back. I think that what the governor of New Jersey did, and that's my home state, so I'm biased 100%. Was she moved with integrity, hey, I found this error. This is what happened. This is the timeline of it happened. This is the correction and the methods that we're taking to rectify it. That's what you want to happen. But what's going to happen now is a bunch of people are going to claim that information and run with it and say, "See, they admitted 600,000. That means there's 7 million."
And that inflation to me is the issue.
Graham Platner in Maine just had to step down because a woman said that she had inappropriate relations with him 10 years ago. The same day, not the same day, a couple days later, but Trump paid a civil suit for officially being guilty of rape on a civil. He didn't have to step down. He didn't have to answer. He didn't have to address it. He didn't have to do a press conference. So, I think that there's this double standard that is starting to like peak. Whereas, when somebody actually leads with integrity in this current um ecosystem and say something like, "Hey, we caught some fraud. it's not right. This is what we're going to do to rectify it. Instead of people saying, "Thank you for actually doing the right thing." It's now like, "See, that's an excuse to now all these biases and all the fake information that I've been passing." It validates that now we need to disenfranchise more people and not make them vote. Like I I just want to just draw that line in the sand because I think it's easy to say because this New Jersey thing was discovered, there's 16 other million cases when that's not the case. I to me it doesn't seem like the case. Um, I think that's a very fair read if somebody who has a internal value system, a set of core beliefs is being internally consistent with both their values and their beliefs. And so it becomes a question of do we align on what we believe to be true? And the answer is no.
>> So that's where it's like um I'm very glad that I don't get to adjudicate this because I don't have enough facts. So I want to see this play out in the fullness of time.
>> Like you, I do not trust politicians. I don't like stuff like this being weaponized. If she really did just do the honorable thing, then yeah, people should celebrate that. That's awesome.
And the fact that she is in a blue state, I think New Jersey, >> it's purple, but yes, blue right now.
>> So, um, that shouldn't count against her in any way, shape, or form in my opinion. So, if when they go in and they find that actually the reality is that she's trying to underplay it and she's slow rolling it or whatever and it was really 30,000 and they knew that or she knew that um they were doing this and we find that her chief of staff ends up, you know, haven't been caught on camera saying something, then it's like, I'll look at it differently. But for now, I'm perfectly happy with the read. She's handling this the right way. She found a thing. She's speaking up. We should celebrate that until evidence proves otherwise because you want people in blue states or red states when it's flipped to be rewarded for coming forward and saying actually that thing that you guys are talking about on the national level even though you're not my party I agree that it's the right thing and so hey here we go. I'm bringing this forward and I'm here for the country first and my party second and [ __ ] yeah you love that. I think that's brilliant.
Now the base assumption that you and I share differently is I look at the incentive system and I go there's too much incentive here uh we've made it too possible people are voting for things on its face from where I'm sitting are patently absurd and when I go oh they're doing that because they want to facilitate all this um non-citizen voting then I'm like now it makes perfect sense I get heard that we don't share that belief but that's my belief and so when I look at it from that lens I'm like, well, nobody should act on it because I believe it. I'm very glad that it's being investigated. People are looking into it and we're going to find out. I would love to see things where we just shore it up. And so, if it's like the thing that I'm proposing as a way to shore it up is non-effective, cool.
Like, I'm very open. I don't need it to be my thing, but like we need a thing to prove that people have a right to vote because we're seeing all the evidence even if um for some people like it's sort of sub threshold or whatever. It's like but we see that it's happening and there is an incentive and I'll address that cuz you're saying I think that incentive has been removed but the reason I don't think that incentive has been removed is that one still at the state level you have it. So the state may not be getting the funds that they were getting before, but the state can still pay for a lot of things. They're just not being reimbursed for it. So it'll be interesting to see how they handle that. And then two, Trump doing something that could still be challenged by the courts and all that is very different than this has been done nationwide and it's just not happening anymore. And then also remember that part of the reason that the DSA is so gung-ho to get rid of the Senate is the Senate is a great equalizer. The Senate says, "I don't care how many people you have in your state. Every state gets two senators. Period. End of story." What that puts a check on is the majority tyrannizing the minority, which you want. You want these, from where I'm sitting, you aggressively want these checks and balances because the human propensity to abuse power. And so, by creating the sentence saying it doesn't matter how many people you have, we have a check against that. What you stop is the congressional abuses that can be done by getting illegal aliens into the country because the way that your census works is it doesn't matter if they're a citizen or not. It just matters that they were there at the time the census was taken and that does control how many congressmen that they have representing them and it's a zero- sum game. So now there is an incentive for every state to get as many people in as possible and then um those states have an incentive to get them to vote in that state for them to retain power because they are likely to vote one way. Now it is definitely a complication for that strategy if the federal government calls [ __ ] and is like I'm not sending you any money. Now that needs to be done in accordance with the laws and so I don't know that Trump's doing it in accordance with the laws. So, it's very possible that gets struck down by the courts.
We'll see. That's going to have to go through the system. So, on that, I'm like, directionally, it's interesting.
It makes me feel a little better, but I don't think by any stretch of the imagination, it solves the actual problem.
>> Um, you said if I can bring in the Odyssey any natural way, I would like to. This is a point where I would like to bring it in.
>> Um, spoilers for those that didn't see it.
>> I think the beautiful thing that he done in that Christopher Nolan.
>> Christopher Nolan. Yes. Is that the notion that the Trojan horse while it was a great move u militarily, it destroyed the social fabric of that society at the time.
>> Fascinating.
>> To me, I think there's a normalization that's happening right now. And every time we shrug at a corruption claim, every time we, oh, that's just Trump, we're normalizing a government official who doesn't care about the people, who puts himself first, who wants to infringe himself, things like that. And don't get me wrong, every Bill Clinton went in broke, came out a like a multi multi-millionaire, owns half of Haiti.
Obama came in worth a couple hundred,000. He walked away with a nine uh figure book publishing deal, Netflix deal speak. So, by no means is is all these presidents leaving broke other than Jimmy Carter. that's why he's still alive and living good like you know what I mean like but I just think that there is something to >> I don't want to be the ought guy but there is something to we are losing the integrity of our political system and it's not a Republican it's not a Democrat thing it's an American thing so like I think a true patriot we have to realize that like hey >> we have to learn how to talk again we have to learn how to be partisan again we have to learn to say >> bipartisan >> bipartisan yes like we have to red and blue need to work together u we have to learn that hey if you break the law you should be held accountable for that and not just how I interpret the law, but like hey man, if you hanging out with 12-year-olds, you should probably not get out. You should probably not get pardoned for that. And at the same time, if you are illegally changing the integrity of the voting system and you get caught, yeah, you should go to jail.
I don't want anybody with 1700 ballots in their back seat to be like, "Hey, what? No, they just like, no, go to go straight to jail, please." But I just think we're we're playing this game where I'm stepping over corruption cases. I'm stepping over fraud cases. um like I'm matrix dodging um international sanctions and crimes against humanity and genocides and all these things to land at. Well, it's because I don't want trans people in the bath. And it's like what are we doing? Like what's the actual talking point? How are we as a society going to progress from this moment? Because if it just becomes a team game and I'm going to let your 1% fringe view ruin the 99% of people in America who want things better, we're spiraling down in that way.
>> Welcome to why I despise populism. Yeah.
>> I can't believe people go for populism like it's a good thing. [ __ ] everything about populism. It It is everybody for themselves.
>> All that matters is that I win. I'm so right. It doesn't matter how many people I have to kill the And I know everybody thinks I'm being hyperbolic. [ __ ] read history for the love of God. It's actually where it goes. And so, are we really far from that in America? Boy, do I hope so. But is it where this is why I am on like perpetual DSA watch because their ideology ends in murder. Plain and simple. It has every time it's been tried in history and it will every time it's been tried in history for the reasons that I've laid out very carefully many times before, which is ultimately people do not want to go along with what you're saying needs to be done in order to achieve your aim.
And so those people end up needing to be killed. And so they kill them. And oh, the great irony that the leftists that help authoritarians get into power end up being the ones that are killed.
Anyway, it it is psychotic. I don't want to see it, Drew. Uh, yes, I agree with you. Your vision of patriotism is my vision of patriotism. It it is one of the things that I love about doing this show with you is that even though we have you lean a little left, I lean a little right, um, but you want the same outcome that I want. So it is um yes everything to you just everything that you just said gets a big yes from me.
>> Is that also your um take away from the Odyssey or did you have a >> Well, it's interesting. So now going to the Odyssey. Um I Yes, that's certainly one of the takes that they're um trying to put forward. I think that there's even more uh depth and complexity in terms of the moral takeaway of um did Odysius win or lose in the end? like was that a price worth paying? Um it it is it is really and by the way is Adysius the hero or the villain?
>> And so there's a couple moments where he does something I consider so stupid that I really wanted to hate him.
>> And then they he will do things that are so redemptive that I'm like was Homer really that gangster at like painting the picture of the human experience or is this Nolan? So what I will say is I was so moved by that movie that between that and the they play like at the beginning of the screening I saw anyway they played like three or four minutes of Dune part three >> those two things back toback were so powerful that I'm now thinking about like really making film a part of my life again. I was like let's go.
>> Yes, dude. I I have been in the hinterlands of just absolute a loss of the thing >> that the airord >> for people that don't know I went to film school. Film was my first love.
Like I couldn't have been more passionate about it and then film just sort of fell off. So I don't know if this is really a resurgence or not, but it was um it was incredible. So for anybody worried about um Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey being woke, that is absurd. Um, I am as anti-woke as you're going to get. Now, in full disclosure, I don't have a problem with race swapping.
So, if that is your like one and sole trigger, there are two characters, I guess, that you could be a little bit weird about from that perspective. Uh, first of all, um, Elliot Page does not play a great warrior, so don't be tense.
>> He's not Achilles. Like, that was fake news.
>> All all fake news. and the way that um he they I don't know >> he him >> he him perfect. So the way that he's portrayed in the movie it's perfectly fine for somebody of slight stature. So just it wasn't that wasn't weird to me at all. Uh and then um Helen of Troy being played by a beautiful black woman was not weird. If it had been played by Lizo, I'm just going to be honest, that I would have I would have had beef just because she's morbidly obese.
>> Liz Lizo catches strays.
>> Hey, that was not a stray. That's a sniper bullet from across the room.
[laughter] >> I knew what I was shooting at.
>> Yeah. So, that that one I would have had beef, but she is a beautiful woman. So, anyway, um I get it. It was the only thing that I was like, "Okay, that one is a little jarring was, and I don't know if he's um Indian, but he certainly looks roughly Indian." The actor who says the line, "We're all from Greece or whatever." And I was like, "We could have handed that to somebody else." uh that particular line. But >> I heard some commentary on this and we'll get back to the show guys, but let us indulge in for a second. Um >> Greek at the moment was similar to early America in the sense that if you go to the American North, there were white businessmen, Irish businessmen, Italian men, black businessmen, and then you go to the Italian, that's where the slave trade and stuff like that was. So Greek at that level of their empire, there could have been somebody who came from Indian descent that migrated into the Totally. That's why I was like, "Oh, that that is something that's not like it's just a whole bunch of blonde hair, blue-eyed white boys that would have been on the front line." So, that's part >> Well, first of all, Greeks aren't blonde hair and blueeyed. But yes, um the reason that I would say you want to be a little more sensitive to that is that, >> hey, you're taking something from their lineage. It's one of the like foundational pillars of their mythology.
>> And you have a line that references G.
literally a line that references Greek people and you give it to somebody who is clearly not of that lineage. It would have been a wise >> like nod of thanks, if you will, to the culture that gave us, you know what I mean? In something where you're doing something I don't have any beef with whatsoever.
>> First of all, again, I just don't have a problem with race swapping. That doesn't freak me out. But um on that one, it's like just like if I were going to do a remake or you know um Black Panther 4 or whatever, I wouldn't make Tala white.
Like there's just something maybe I introduce a white guy, but I'm not making Tala white. There's just certain things it's like, bro, you got one line about the Greeks. Like let that be delivered by somebody who is actually Greek. Uh would have just been way smarter from that perspective of not creating problems for himself. Um but the rest of it, I just I can't stress enough. It is a non-fucking entity in the movie. It doesn't you don't think about it at all when you're in the movie. It It is just not I went into it like I am here because I feel like I need to comment on the culture. I did not expect to get caught up in holy [ __ ] this is such a good movie that I'm finding myself called back to the cinema like a [ __ ] church. So like that whole thing I'm there to find out if this thing is woke and it felt so like >> it was deflating because there just wasn't anything to grab on to. Yeah, >> they didn't try to make uh Elliot Paige.
Yes. Uh they didn't try to make him like a [ __ ] gangster fighter.
>> See the movie, you'll see very quickly.
So anyway, all the landmines that people thought he was going to step on, they're just non-existent. Helen of Troy even isn't like a big beat in the movie. It's like uh so >> and even how he showed her beauty in that way like it was still >> also by the way it was um it was a movie about something else entirely and they they so deliver on the other thing the bigger themes of the movie you're just not going to care about the other stuff.
So anyway, I have a whole thesis. I haven't seen the critical drinker response. I really resonate with his um read on a lot of movies. I will be very interested to see if he succumbs because what I think is happening in all the um internet push back on it went like this.
These guys were told that they were being psycho radicals for calling out how woke movies have become in video games, which is absolutely true. It was dire. We all live through like 15 years of trash in the name of like putting forward a message in film. So I it was unreasonable the way the people responded to them. But these guys built an audience around being anti-woke. Then the trailer from Nolan comes out that has these nods to wokeism and they lose their [ __ ] and the broader world of people that feel like they've been ignored and gaslit, they go [ __ ] ballistic. just absolutely ratioing to death the trailers. And so these guys now are like, "Look, [ __ ] Nolan's falling off. I can't believe he did this." And so they got so much like positive affirmations from their takedowns of the trailers that I think they were a bit trapped. They have an audience that demands anti-woke rhetoric. Then they put out rhetoric like, "Yo, look at this trailer." They thought, "Oh my god, we're about to hit the motherload of like even [ __ ] Nolan has succumbed to all this woke bullshit." And when they went and saw the movie, they had to dislike it. And so you got these early reviews where people literally were like, I just walked out. I've seen the movie. I am not now responding to headlines or trailers. I have seen the movie and it was lost and meandering. What the [ __ ] Hold the phone. This thing My mic just did something weird. Boys, be careful.
Um, this whole thing is like this movie will be studied for how seamlessly they jump in time, how well they handle that.
I was like, "Wo, >> bro." So, I was like, "That [ __ ] was done so well. This movie was 3 hours long and it felt like two maybe." Like, I was never bored. I was never looking at my watch. I cannot believe how many beats they covered, how seamlessly he weaves these things together. Nolan Nolan for me [ __ ] up Tenant. I was just like, "What what happened there?"
So, I'm not like a dick writer for Nolan, even though I think he is one of the greats in cinema right now, but when he [ __ ] up, I'm just like, Tenant was unfortunate. Um, but he handled this so [ __ ] well. So anyway, to me, this was Nolan at the peak of his powers. He messes with time even more deafly than he did in Momento, which was is truly one of the greats of cinema. Uh, so anyway, I hope people, even if you are as anti-woke as I am, that you will go give this movie a try because holy [ __ ] it is phenomenal and asks a very deep fundamental question about what it means to be a good person.
It's so good. It's so good. And pay attention to the sun.
>> Yeah. Boy, do I want to spoiler alert talk about that [ __ ] >> I got to watch it again now. I was like, I missed that one. Okay.
>> Like like his son, not >> Oh. Oh. Oh.
I'm looking at this. I didn't even look at the sky yet. Like [laughter] >> I was like, "Yeah, the sun was pretty."
>> I like that.
>> His his child. His child. And what that says about masculinity and Oh my god, it's uh >> Yeah. [snorts] Great man.
>> Well done. Brilliant. Um Okay, we're back, guys. Uh spoiler alerts over. Uh, no more. We We didn't spoil it, though.
I >> was going to say we were >> I mean, it's a thousands of year old story.
>> Yeah, but like it's it's almost so old that you can't assume people know it, >> I guess. But I was like, all of high school was coming back to me. I was like, "Oh, yeah. I remember highlighting that. I remember having to dissect that." Like, >> and that's me. My high school, we didn't have to like we didn't have to read it.
So, people were like, "Oh my gosh."
>> Oh, was that just a me?
>> No, no, no. There was internet discourse about that, too. I seen that. Like, >> yeah, it's it's it's pick.
>> I don't know.
>> You did or didn't, Brian? I read it. You >> both? Yeah.
>> And we both we both from Jersey. So that's like interesting. Like we're 20 minutes away and then you read it, I didn't. So it was just it's crazy.
>> Um Okay. Um we're back. Um let's go culture cuz a lot of friends of the show have done very interesting things and I would like to bring it up and kind of talk about it. Um the first thing low key I need to call Brian Johnson just because he looks so different and all his sideby-side pictures started on like Impact Theory. Like we are like his lips test. I know. So, we definitely need to bring him back when his clone baby gets alive. But, >> yeah, he just >> This one is really fascinating.
[laughter] So, um he put out a post. It was maximized for clicks as one would expect. It stars. [clears throat] I just cloned myself as a newborn. Um so, the real punchline is that basically he's cloning his cells and it is talk about AI and one of the breakthroughs and what we're going to be able to do with cells.
Now, this is all writing on the back of something called um Yaka Nama factors.
Namayaka factors. [ __ ] I think he's got it there. I always blank on this. It's It's a Japanese guy's name. It's a scientist who figured out what are the Yamanaka factors. I'm almost certain that's true.
>> Oh, yeah. Here it is. Yamaka.
>> Yes. Yamanaka. All right. So, uh, Yamanaka factors are the thing that allow your cells to, um, basically become pur potent so that they can become anything again. So, what is aging? Aging is this problem of your cells over time get the wrong methylation markers. Okay. I was explaining this to my wife. She seemed interested. I'm going to run you guys through it. You'll let me know if chat's like bored out of their mind. Uh, but a speedrun of the way that aging works goes like this. Um, your DNA, the full strand of everything you will ever need to produce in your body, eye cells, heart cells, running processes, all of it is in every single cell. The problem is each cell only needs like a tiny fraction of that. And so the um cells have this incredible method of you wind up the DNA in such a way that only the DNA part that codes for that cell is exposed. So everything else is wrapped up. And so you know what a cell is by which part sticks out. And you put little markers on the part that sticks out so that you keep it uh the way it is. Think of them like bookmarks. And that's called methylation. And so you go in and you tag the cells with these methylation markers and the little things that crawl over the DNA that read it and kick off the different proteins and things that it needs to make it stops reading when it hits the right methylation marker and all that stuff.
Okay. When you age that methylation, those markers get put in the wrong place just because you're copying the cell over and over and over and over and over. These are actually physical processes. So the little thing runs around, it reads it and says, "This is what I am." And it puts the markers back in the right place. Okay? So as you age, those markers get put in the wrong place. The DNA begins to unspool. And so now it's like, am I a heart cell or an eye cell? And so that heart cell becomes a little less effective at its job because it's mostly still a heart cell, but it's becoming something else a little bit as well. And so if you could perfectly methylate those again, get them tightened. So only the heart cell is sticking out, your heart cell is going to literally get younger. And so this is what Brian Johnson is talking about is he's saying the future is going to be where all of us take our cells at the earliest age possible because you're accumulating all of this methylation mismarking and so the cells are becoming differentiated.
What we're going to do is we're going to take it at the healthiest point possible. going to put it in a petri dish, hit it with these Yamanaka factors, and we're going to actually send them back in time in that you're um you're actually differentiating them in the extreme. You're making them pur potent. They can become any kind of cell, but then you redifferiate them into the type of cell that you want them to be. And so now becomes a young as close to possible pristine version of that cell. And then you either grow an organ or whatever or you reinject it back into the body. And so now the body has those freshly methylated cells that function at the highest capacity. And so what you'll find is that people are literally cloning themselves and building their own organs and things in essentially vats and then when they need them, they'll then put them back into their own body. It this is right now probably the best thing we've got going in terms of radical life ex extension.
Um, so this is very interesting. It's very real. It's actually been going on for a while. And so he's putting a top spin on it. Um, that, you know, it's like obviously people are expecting that there's a little baby somewhere of him.
That is not true. It's just his cells.
Uh, but it is it is coming. This is the future of medicine. Yes, in the beginning it will be very expensive, but this will come down in cost massively and probably relatively rapidly. The only thing that will [ __ ] that up is our absolute disaster of a uh public private health care system, which people should be furious about. They're furious about it for the wrong reasons, but isn't that typical? Um, but that might be something that slows down the um cost coming down, but the cost will come down as AI comes more on board, as energy becomes cheaper. Um, that will become available to everybody in the fullness of time.
>> Yeah. And I think breaking it down to the first principles perspective is the thing that makes it most interesting to me because to your point, aging is this big gray fog area. It's hair, it's color, it's energy, it's all these things. But then when you break it down to the cellular level, it's really just like, no, your neck cells are getting a little lazy and they stop pulling it up.
So let's strengthen your neck cells and then okay, your bags and then these little small changes at the molecular level have these then knock on effects with everything else. And yep, >> it's very interesting to build it up that way. very uh okay, another friend of the show, Biology, um is trying to start his own nation. Um it's very interesting with the network school. We had him on the show. He broke it down.
His philosophy on the headline level is it's not left versus right. It's not good versus bad. It's not tech versus rural. It's more so a thought of ideas, not necessarily geography. I don't know if I don't know if I described that right. I >> mean, you're getting very, very close.
So, it's value system over geography.
and people will end up linking up based on their beliefs and because we live in aworked age where people can find each other on the internet that um you're not going to have people group up anymore based on geography. Now I have long told bology that he's crazy about that and that there is going to be an element of geography to this and he ran smack bang into this very recently if you guys don't know. So, first of all, his full names Baji Sharina Vosan. He's incredible. He's a former CTO of Coinbase. Literally one of the smartest guys in tech. He's an absolute just brilliant machine. The more you can interface with him, the better your life will be. Uh, in August of 2024, he launched the network school, which is based on the back of that idea that I was just walking you through. And it is a um it's a school that's in Forest City, Malaysia. So there was like a they built something up some like big like um set of apartments or like an old um I forget it was built as something else that ends up falling through. He sees that like there's all this space that he can move people in. So he ends up moving a bunch of people in there. It's it's about an hour from Singapore. He's put roughly $25 million into it so far and brought all of these like tech positive entrepreneurs that share his network state mentality. And so these are presumably very entrepreneurial-minded people. They are all people that believe in this idea that we're all going to group up around um ideas via technology.
And that's going to be the way that we build a state that we are even though we're geographically dispersed, we are all um adherence of the same ideology.
And so we will link up in ways um and vote on things together as a collective even though we're distributed. Now I hope it's not lost on anybody that as this really started to gain momentum, what was the first thing he did? He brought everybody together physically because that's just how humans are wired. Geography is always going to play a role in this. And in mid July, an activist group called Malaysian Protest for Palestine posted allegations that the campus had become a gathering place for Israeli entrepreneurs. This this makes me laugh. Now, look, I get it.
This is I'm probably on uh the very unpopular end of this debate, but nonetheless, I think people are um mapping everything to Israelis bad is a very weird way to approach this. But nonetheless, uh these guys went absolutely ham because Malaysia just does not play with Israelis. Uh the country does not recognize Israel and Israeli passport holders can't enter without written permission from the Home Affairs Ministry. Uh, so the ministry is like, "Yo, we're going to go in. We're going to find out if this is really true." They open an investigation.
Immigration officers raid Bali's campus.
They check hundreds of passports. The initial result is that all 266 foreigners that were actually on site, they had valid travel documents. Cool.
We could have left it there. But Bology is not going to let that ride. And I think honestly he was right to make the move I'm about to tell you about. But he just was like, I need to know for sure whether we can move forward or not because now that I see that you guys don't like that we're here and that there's going to be some contention, we we need to like really pin this down. So on July 16th, he posts a video addressed directly to the prime minister Anoir Ibrahim and he pauses because he he's got like this big it's like $122 million expansion that he's planning. He pauses that and demands, put that in quotes, but a written guarantee, call it anou or a specific economic zone provision, whatever. But he wants to know that the network state is welcome. And he warned that, hey, if we're not welcome here, fair enough, but we're going to relocate, right? So, it's like, look, we're bringing a lot of entrepreneurial-minded people here.
We're going to be paying taxes. Like, this is a good thing for you guys. We're bringing investment. And they were basically like, yeah, [ __ ] you. 5 days later, the local city council gave their answer. It revoked network schools business license, ordered all operations to cease by July 22nd, which is today.
Yeah. Uh and they stated that you're basically running classroom activities from premises uh licensed as offices. So like a technicality, you guys are operating a second location with no license at all. Again, a technicality.
And so Joe Har the I think the city that they're in the chief minister backed the decision called for continued investigation into the alleged misuse of second passports. So it's like okay sure we go we raid everybody's legit but what if they really are Israeli and they just are using like another passport from a different country. So Bology then called the shutdown reports fake news. You guys are overblowing this. He said that the issues are just administrative.
Everything is good. and he now basically realizes that uh the network state needs an actual state and they need somebody that's going to be friendly to them. And this is the thing that I've been trying to get Bali to understand for a long time is that bro at some point this is going you're going to exist in a geography that geography is not going to like that you're trying to be um extrajudicial that you're doing things that don't line up with their laws. And that that's the whole point of your endeavor is that you're trying to create like this new thing based on new beliefs, new values. And so I'll be interested to see how this plays out.
They end up getting a document signed with Kazakhstan, I believe. And so we'll see. Maybe they're going to move there.
Maybe things will be more friendly. But the game that he's now realizing he's playing is, yeah, we have to be somewhere. And so I know at one point rumor was I don't know if it was actually him but rumor was people u Peter Teal and others were looking at creating basically a nation out in international waters. I don't know Bology ends up doing something like that. We'll see. But that's a lot of infrastructure. So my gut is that he's going to do something like a deal with Kazakhstan or somewhere else where they have a government that's friendly to them that wants those tax dollars quite frankly. But my question is, what happens when you run a foul of what they've got going? You can hope that you become economically important enough that they'll grant you I don't know if it's going to end up being something like the Vatican or what. Uh but humans like being physically adjacent to the people that they're dealing with. That's never going to go away. And if you're trying to have a different set of governing principles, even if they're not specifically laws, you're going to run into problems like this. Uh so we'll see if this is something that is navigable even in a hyperconnected world. I think there's geography is always going to rear its head. You said it until you have governing laws, it won't. So like it's not the collection of people, it's the government like >> Yeah. If you're in a jurisdiction governed by Kazakhstan, uh, Malaysia, US, wherever, and you guys are trying to do your own thing, >> if you, uh, perfectly adhere to every rule, regulation of that government, and then like give some extra restrictions or whatever to your group, then it's going to be fine. The second you try to give extra benefits, now you've got a problem. So they were bringing Israelis, as the allegations go, into Malaysia, which is a hard pass from Malaysia. So now they're realizing, uhoh, we we can further restrict, but we can't further grant. And so it's just like states. So you've got Mani saying, I'm going to arrest um Netanyahu if he comes to New York. And then the federal government reminding him, hey, dumbass. Uh you can't do that. So that is what Baji is waking up to is that there there are additional restrictions that he can put on his own people, but he certainly can't grant them rights that the government that they're operating inside of um don't already give.
>> Mhm.
is that like the sustain like because on paper I understand what he's trying to do and there is a sense of being free and independent of the bureaucracy that is inherently comes with government but is it just that's not how humans work and you just >> I'm not even sure that he's trying to be um what he's trying to do is say that humans gravitate towards values that's the thing that ultimately unites us. It isn't geography.
>> Mhm. Historically, it had to be geography because we didn't have a way to find each other to connect. Uh we didn't have um blockchain technology to run contracts without needing adjudication, things like that. Um now that we have that technology, then there's no reason that we need to be bound by geography. And my pitch to him is that's just not the way that the human mind operates. We're always going to want to share space. We're always going to be subject subject to a power structure. And so even going in international waters is you saying that hey um I know there are rules about international waters. I it's it is more lenient and so I'm going to go do these things in international waters that I wouldn't otherwise be able to do. But you're still um by the way uh pirates could come and raid you and so now you're going to have to have your own military. And so like all of the sudden it's like you're really trying to be a new country and that is the part that I'm trying to um it's the part that I'll be very interested to see. My current mental model is there will be no way to do this that you have a bunch of people that are effectively in a club. They're sharing ideas. Maybe they're um you know running blockchain contracts, but all those contracts are going to be subject to the laws of the jurisdictions that they're in. and they're never going to actually be able to be essentially extra jur jurisdiction jurisdictional where they're outside of that. So, um yeah, I just think that's going to be forever a friction. They will literally find themselves having to create their own state and then defend that state and then be physically located somewhere and now you're just back to the same problem. You may have found each other over the network, but you weren't able to actually govern over the network unless you're willing to uh submit to the local authorities.
>> In the future of the AI, the four possibilities, we did talk about virtual worlds and kind of operating in there.
Is this a technical limitation? And when we're all jacked in and I could be in a LA basement, but mentally I'm in the network state in network villand, would that be like the sol like this? uh and it won't solve it because what'll ultimately happen is think about like right now even um in video games. So there's a big thing about uh is this gambling? Is what you're doing gambling?
And so or trading cards? So Japan wants to sell their Pokemon cards in America and it's like well there are gambling laws and those things are um there somebody debated me on this at one point. They think I'm wrong about the gambling laws. I'm pretty sure I'm right. Uh certainly it is true in video games that there are some things that are considered gambling and so there are specific regulations that you have to like adhere to and so that doesn't matter that that is being generated in a different country. What matters is the country in which is being played. And so if you're not adhering to the gambling laws of the US, it doesn't matter that the game is made in Japan or China. It's like we have laws and so you're going to have to adhere to that. And so similar, you're living inside of a virtual world, but your body is still in a physical jurisdiction. And so if you come out and somebody complains that, hey, that virtual world that you created, it's actually an economy and it's predatory practices or whatever, suddenly you'll find yourself, it doesn't matter that you're teleporting to >> uh I forget what you called it, virtual as. [laughter] But um that is you're still going to have to deal with the jurisdiction that your you know your bed exists in.
>> Um shout out to Jesus is coming soon.
Not because his username is Banger, but because he bought up Dolly the Lamb. Do you remember Dolly the Lamb? I feel like I I've gotten um Mandela affected. So, this was like early '9s. They cloned a lamb. They put it on TV. It was like nightly news TV. And then we never talked about cloning again. Like it was just like, "Yeah, we did this cool thing. We're done. We we solved it." And they just like walked into the darkness with it. So, I'm glad I actually seen that cuz I for a second I was like, "Wait, I feel like we don't talk about that no more." So, >> yeah. Is there a 1% conspiracy theory in you that's like, "Yeah, they're definitely cloning people."
>> No. Oh, are they cloning people? Well, I think they're getting so close to it in China. And look, they arrested the guy, so this wasn't like a China technically probably didn't sanction this. Um, but yeah, he I don't remember if it was cloning. It probably wasn't cloning, but he definitely did um he was gene editing the embryo. Uh, so things like that. The the thing that freaks people out about cloning may not overlap perfectly with gene editing, but it probably should.
Uh, so it's us controlling exactly what fetus ends up developing. And so whether you break a you know a skin cell off and turn it into a human which you actually we haven't proven you can do yet but there's nothing in the science that precludes it other than us pursuing it other than people saying just morally that's uh repugnant but that is um from a what we're able to do technologically I would expect that to happen at some point in the future because we can do it and we will certainly be editing embryos. That is for sure. Like it it's already happened.
>> Yeah. Designer babies are definitely a thing. Uh, okay. We got a bunch of super chats that we got uh sidetracked on.
Yes, we do. First up from Marushia Dark.
As an uh New Jersey native, I want to see Trump prosecute all sanctuary mayors and governors for violating federal immigration law and the supremacy clause. Legal immigrants, voting means my vote was stolen. Period. Glad to see DOJ pressing this.
>> It certainly means that your vote is watered down. That is uh for sure true.
Um, I think we'll probably see like I saw a reel yesterday of a couple went to a Democratic primary, which I imagine was the push back, but nonetheless, if they're registered Democrats, it is what it is. They went to a Democratic primary to vote, but they were wearing um Make America Great Again hats, and they refused to give them a ballot. They had to call the cops, and the cops came and gave them a ballot. So, um there are all kinds of stories of ballots not being counted, other ballots being double counted. I have a feeling we're going to find that that isn't uh mythology, that it's really happening. And so it just becomes a question of what's the scale.
But nonetheless, we should make those kinds of things impossible because there isn't incentive for it. So uh yes, it waters down all of our votes. Yes, we should stop doing it immediately. Chaos Ballots says, "Sadly, the only way to shut down all AI at this point is to have uh the Day of the Earth stood still scenario, and we'll have way bigger issues if that were uh possible."
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I forgot. What was that?
>> Going forward.
>> I don't remember what caused it. I don't know. Ryan, if you want to >> Oh, alien with the day the earth still.
>> Yeah, I think the alien comes and basically everything like visits Earth.
The alien has a robot who visits Earth.
>> Um, I feel like I seen it, but I don't remember.
>> I think there was a Kiana Reeves remake.
I could be that one. Really? Maybe Mandela effect, but I think that's true.
>> That's true.
>> Let's go.
>> Oh, yeah. To the eight.
>> By the way, we have somebody new here today with us. You've been here before, but uh Brian. Welcome, Brian.
>> Shout out to Brian.
>> Hello, everybody.
>> Uh, next up is a four-parter. So, thank you for the 80 total.
>> Damn. Damn.
>> Let's go. Let's go.
>> 80 on the super chat. We out here on a Wednesday.
>> No kidding.
>> Tally for life says follow-up Tom. You say that teaching everyone printing money is evil is super critical. Willing to harm future of Kaizen over it.
Clearly a monetary sacrifice. We are on the Titanic heading towards the iceberg saying be ready. But you refused to knock on captain's door of Titanic to ask, "Are you steering right or left?"
Super lame excuses you gave of feeling you tell your audience to suck it up and do it all the time. Get over that ick and go find out what the Fed or other highle decision makers are actually going to do. Have the convo on the background. There's nuance.
>> Wait, wait. I want to make sure I'm following. Is he saying because I don't network and I don't go inject myself into these. Is this tied to that?
>> Yeah. Super lame excuse you gave of feeling the ick of rubbing soldiers with elites. you have resources, hire a lobbyist, hire a PI.
>> Got it. Okay. Now, he's at least being clear. I don't feel any uh moral compunction to adhere to this, but he's putting a very clear argument for it.
Okay, now that I understand, keep going.
>> Uh, okay. There's nuance here. You spend hours talking about this economy. Time is valuable for you. Find out the secret strategy they actually plan on using.
Money can open all kinds of doors. Claw your way into ideas. LOL. Throw some money around. So, I actually don't think that that would be super effective. I mean, look, if you're Elon Musk and you're going to throw hundreds of millions of dollars, it's obviously very effective. Uh, if I were going to run like a 20-year strategy and I was going into local elections, maybe I could do something at a local level. Um, but I'm not going to be spending hundreds of millions of dollars. I I would much rather put my money towards uh what I'm trying to create than politics. So, unfortunately, you just have an unwilling servant. Um, so I'm definitely not doing that. And then the other thing is uh also I don't think money should be in politics. So let's start with that.
Uh and then on top of it know your strengths. So I am reasonably good. I won't expect anybody to say that I'm great but I'm reasonably good at looking into a camera and explaining difficult topics. Uh so I'll keep doing that.
Learning about the economy and telling people feels far more logical with my passions and talents. Also I am an individual guy. I would much rather uh make sure that somebody knows how to protect themselves from social swings than um me trying to be the guy that's swaying culture. I don't find that interesting. It isn't the kind of thing that wakes me up excited. So um I I'm not saying any of this to persuade you as you've made it very clear that these arguments are lame to you, which fair enough. Uh but they are nonetheless true and so they will be highly predictive of my behavior. Um, but yeah, unfortunately none of that. I don't find any of that emotionally persuasive. And this is one place where you will have to get me emotionally engaged.
>> Tabitha Barton says, "Tom, I love the channel. Can >> Wait a second. She got a $50 super tattoo, too." She said, "I I ain't dropped 80, but I dropped 50." Let's go, Tabitha. I see you.
>> Thank you for the 50.
>> No joke.
>> Uh, can solar and storage carry the US through the AI wave? 92% of new capacity is solar, but permitting, uh, permitting kills it. What's your hot take on solar battery and getting the US more electricity?
>> It's the future. If we don't embrace it and race towards uh improving it as fast as we can, we are a just entire country of fools. Um so we should be doing that, but we should also be bringing nuclear on. We should also continue pressing uh what we're doing with fossil fuels and just make sure that we have the energy that we need. Uh focus on innovation to deal with any climate crisis that we are concerned about. Um, but trying to get the world to move backwards in terms of quality of life is an absolute non-starter for me. I think it is patently ridiculous to look back at hundreds of thousands of years of progress and innovation uh and now saying, "But wait, that's not how we're going to solve the problems moving forward. We need to immediately um just start using less." To me, that is an absurdest read of history. Uh, and so everybody should be focused on innovate, innovate, innovate so that we can transition over to solar as rapidly as possible. Um, so yeah, anybody um screaming that we should slow down and basically depopulate, [ __ ] every word of that.
>> Um, somebody said if you were offered a cabinet position, would you take it?
>> No, definitely not. No universe in which >> what if like an adviser position like the >> how bad things would have to get for me to do that. So first of all remember uh I am very terrified of people having too much power because they are likely to be wrong. I am one of the people that you should worry about being wrong. And so now you want me to like go bull in a china shop and be like hey the one superpower I have is I don't trust myself like most people do and that has kept me out of many ditches and allowed me to become incredibly successful.
That's one. two, the only reason I got into business in the first place was to get into storytelling. I am finally actually doing that with Kaizen and people want to suck me back into the other side. Uh, and also I am really trying to put ideas out in a way that is uh matches my skills and passions. So yeah, I would be a terrible politician.
So I'll tell the story one more time.
remember my whole strategy into getting into Hollywood cuz the first phase of Impact Theory was really just direct writing comics um pitching Hollywood had an agent that whole thing trying to get stuff made and my agents at the time were I said listen I'm going to make my reputation in Hollywood by not doing the my people will call your people lying to your face and then you know um really thinking something different I'm just going to tell you exactly what I think I'll truncate a very long story I did that so aggressively they just ghosted me. Uh I remember the meeting we had when I was like uh-oh, I don't think they're ever going to talk to me again.
And in that meeting, they were smiling and like, "Oh my god, there's nobody like you." Ah. And I was like, I broke them. I can see it in their face. Uh so it doesn't work. The thing that I do doesn't work. It Mom Donnie is a brilliant politician because he's almost certainly has no compunction just lying directly to people's faces and then doing something else behind the scenes.
I can't do that. I'm I am unwilling to do that. That does not that makes me lose respect for myself, not gain respect. And even here on camera, I know if I lied to you guys, my channel would be way [ __ ] bigger. And so, uh, I don't, but boy, do I see the urge because it's so [ __ ] effective. So, yeah, I I would make a terrible politician, I guess, is the the punchline. I'm always surprised that people can't read that, that they can't see in my personality that this won't work in politics.
>> But almost like the traditional sense of the word that leader should be chosen, not campaign for, but like now put it in reality.
>> But the person who doesn't want it is the person you want to give that mantle to.
>> It's the person you want to give the mantle to is not the person that will get elected.
>> So the problem is I won't get elected.
Also, even take Trump. What do they say about people that um force him to confront disisconfirming evidence? They get fired. So, I would go in the room and be like, "That doesn't make any sense. You don't understand the cause and effect." I would actually say these words. Uh you're not I would say it in a plight way. You're not accurately mapping the cause and effect of this.
Then when I see that he's just like trying to dismiss me. I'd be like, "Okay, cool. Walk me through the cause and effect." And then he would start [ __ ] rambling about something else.
I'll be like, "Hold on. Walk through the cause and effect. Hold on. That's not cause and effect. Walk." and I'm never invited back or they actually usher me out the room right there.
>> The jet didn't even leave yet. It's like, put him back on. Go back.
>> So, it's like, yeah, I would be and be very judgmental of me. I would be ineffective as a politician. So, you would give me that position only to watch that position do nothing effective.
>> And I'm unwilling to do the thing that I would need to do to be an effective politician. So anyway, I'd be [ __ ] terrible at the job, but I appreciate it. I always take it as a um I have offered utility to you in some way in finding a path to the middle or whatever. Uh so I'm it is always extraordinarily touching, but I'm really this is not a humble thing. This is I know myself. I'd be so bad at the job.
Tabitha Barton says, "Friends of mine are going full DSA and site Denmark and Norway. Feels like a category error.
welfare state versus seizing the means of production. What's your cleanest oneliner for explaining the difference?
>> Let me read the beginning of that. Uh friends of mine all going oh full DSA.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, right, right, right. So, okay. People that say that they're DSA, but when you press them on what that means, they say the Nordic model. The Nordic model is tax everybody a lot.
DSA is tax the rich a lot and usher in um socialism where the state controls everything. Uh that wasn't quite one line. I'll stop there because what you're looking for is brevity. Um God, I'm going to Okay, that's one. I'm going to do another take. Crumble that one up. Now we'll start over. I'll try an even sharper one. The Nordic model is a high trust society, ultra- low immigration, high natural resources, and you spread the wealth around.
The DSA is I pretend that wealth is a law of nature and that it is it must be redistributed from the wealthy to everyone else. And it breaks the engine of prosperity.
And by the way, they've got all kinds of [ __ ] moronic [ __ ] about immigrants and jails. There's no way to give it in one sense. I I'm not yet capable.
[laughter] It It is possible. Thank you for pointing out a flaw in my current ability to [ __ ] really be sharp with the summations. Uh keep in mind, please >> the the I know, right? The Nordic models are buckling under immigration. just go listen to their own words, okay? They're all like, "Oh [ __ ] this doesn't work."
When you have uh unchecked immigration and people do not have your value system, it doesn't work. It doesn't scale. So, these have been historically homogeneous societies with massive natural resources and uh everybody like, "Yeah, I don't mind spreading the wealth around." And even there, like I did a whole deep dive on this. Even there in I can never remember if it's Sweden or Norway. I think Norway, whoever wrote Pippy Long Stocking, her country, um they end up imploding because there was one year where the author of Pippy Longtocking had paid more in tax for every time that she sold a book, not she paid additional tax for every book she sold. She lost money on every book that she sold because they uh were taxing her like 104%. So it that's how even they the government gets too big and they've got to [ __ ] push back and they go through their whole rigma roll and the ultralleft leaning government ended up getting voted out and nobody knows this but they've actually been moving in the opposite direction for a very long time because it got [ __ ] out of hand. So even the Nordic model is not what people think it is, but it is ultra high tax on everybody.
>> Curt Stoofer says, "Tom, I want to thank you for all you do." This is a $50 super chat.
>> Super chat. Let's go. Thank you. What is happening today?
[applause] >> Your live stream and videos mean a lot to me and to others. Your message is not unheard. Please keep up the good work.
>> Thank you, man. I really won't even claim that anymore. So many people have been so kind and so generous to point out um that it really does land. Um let's hope we can scale it up, but I I accept we have achieved the first rung of like there are people listening. Uh that's amazing and I'm beside myself with gratitude. May it echo through the culture such that the middle class becomes the best place on earth.
>> Chip Tracy says, "Look into the Margot Robbie, Jamie Presley, Samar Weaving conspiracy. They are cloning celebrities." Uh, which for context, >> they look a lot alike. It's wild.
>> Yeah, they are all blonde and blueeyed.
>> It's crazy. There's I think it just comes down to what are the things that we find attractive in society? And so anybody that gets close to that I I have realized that uh in fact I haven't done this but I saw a real so I'll assume for now that it's true that if you go into Instagram and type um uh find someone like me [ __ ] there's a specific phrase you're supposed to type but it will uh it it does the scan of your face and then it goes and finds people that match your face and you realize you've got a [ __ ] ton of doppelgangers out there. Uh what I used to say as a kid when I started noticing this was God just ran out of faces. And so it's like there's only so many noses, only so many ears, only so many eyes.
And so you intermix them as much as you can. But you do start getting people that that look a lot like Yeah, that one's freaky.
>> Yeah. Here you go. Here you go. I was trying.
>> The one in the upper right doesn't quite fit for me. But the other three, I would believe you if you said that was the same person. Like that is crazy.
>> Yeah, it's wild. high cheekbones, uh, pouty lips, arched eyebrows, blonde.
Like, it's wild.
>> It's wild.
>> Next up, Sage Woody says, "Appreciate what you do. Your opinion on the Constitution says, "No tax on voting, but if we need an ID and it costs me money, does the stop charging for federal IDs like a passport or real ID?"
>> That would be dope. I think that's a great idea. Let's go.
>> Oh, I missed it. What happened? He said free.
>> So, basically, the Constitution is making sure that you can't charge people money to vote. Uh, so there's no tax on voting. Uh, and so you could read that getting that idea is a tax and so should we give it away for free? Yeah, cool.
Great. Do it.
>> Um, I no beef with that whatsoever. Love it the most. Give people the day off. I will give my entire staff the paid day off to go vote. I have no >> Write this down somebody. Write this down. Somebody clip.
>> Write this down. Clip it. Clip it. Clip it. November 4th. Nobody's going to be in office and I'm not going to get yelled at.
>> Oh, GTA won't be out. These other [ __ ] Okay. [laughter] Okay. Now, these [ __ ] are going to get called out. So, listen, listen, listen. All All eyes on me right here. These [ __ ] are trolling [laughter] because there is one person in this room who said, "Hey guys, if you want to take off the day for GTA, go for it. I've got no beef. Just make sure your work is done." Guess which person that is? Me. So, if you think that I'll be hesitant about [ __ ] voting, these guys are out of their minds. They're They know that I'm [laughter] so [ __ ] sure. show after GTA is just going to be us all playing GTA.
>> I've got no beef.
>> Play with us. This is going to be a let's play. If you guys want to take a paid day to go play GTA, go for it.
[laughter] >> Uh, next up is uh Tism over inquisitive says, "Iard great username.
>> You got some good username.
>> Great username. [laughter] >> I hard disagree. The very reason you say you'd be a terrible politician uh is the exact reason I'd vote for you. Even if I don't agree with 100% of your idea of policy, at least I know we'd be led by data driven.
>> Exactly. That's why you want that person. The person that is fighting it is a person that Yes, I would vote for him because he doesn't want it to be a pretty face. He doesn't want a book deal. He wants to just fix some [ __ ] and leave.
>> Did you guys follow Schwarzenegger's career at all as governor?
>> Pretty interesting. He talks about it in his book, and it was one of the reasons I realized that I would be um bad at the job is it's what he called Kabuki theater. And he said that he would bring people in and say, "Okay, here's where we want to go." Right? [ __ ] Schwarzenegger dude is a generational mind for real. Like study this guy, it makes me so sad that we all age and he's just become essentially irrelevant. But god damn, when you follow his whole story from how what he did with his physique, um how he got out of Austria, it it is unbelievable. breaking the rules at the right time, helping the right people. I mean, just [ __ ] it's incredible. Anyway, >> gets into uh becomes the governor of California and is like, "Okay, we all want to go here." And um so Democrats, Republicans come in. Let's figure out a way to get there. And he said that they would do Kabuki Theater and they would say things to him that he wanted to hear and like, "Yeah, we're going to do this.
It's going to be great." And he said, "Then they would go out and they would say something completely different to their constituents and all that." And he was like, "The fact that you're never dealing with a real person. Like, it's always like they're playing a political game. They're going to say one thing, but then do another. They're going to tell the public one thing, but tell you something different. They're going to say maybe the same thing to both, but then vote a different way." And he was like, it was so hard to overcome all the manipulation and all the like, well, I'll do that for you, but you've then got to do this thing and then that becomes politically untenable because the voters don't understand all the behind-the-scenes minations. And so he was like he would see people vote against their voters best interests because they didn't know how to package it or say it. So even though it was the best thing, they knew it was the best thing. they still wouldn't do it or because they were in the pocket of industry or you know uh wealthy investor whatever and so it's just like it's so heartbreaking the the political system is dysfunctional really for one reason the more I learn about the economy the more I become concerned that the only way that I'll be able to help people like okay I'm going to confess something this has only happened recently but I'm almost certain that every time that I just blanket say money printing is bad that I'm lying to people for the right reason and I'm going to get them to where they need to be but it's actually not true and so to get what I want I am scared that the most effective path would be to say to camera don't money print and then go to the government say you got to money print how [ __ ] gross is that but that might actually be true and so the bad news is for for my channel is that I'll say the full complex truth >> and the reason that it's almost certainly true that money printing and we're going to cover this. Stick around.
We've got a third hour today. This is the very thing we're going to cover is that um the one thing about money printing that is really effective, forget the moral hazard for a second because that is terrifying. Mhm.
>> But money only comes into money only comes into existence in a uh fiat world by debt.
How do you generate debt that doesn't get paid back? Deficit spending. So, oh god, fraud creates a deficit that ends up putting money into uh the system in a way that registers as GDP.
So, fraud is good for your economy on one level >> cuz you got to cook the books. And so it's like, holy [ __ ] it may be possible that because you have decided on a system that robs from everybody, if you actually want, it's an evil system, but you have it. And so if you actually want to know what caused 2008, it might not be the debt at the government level, and nobody's banged the drum harder than me.
130% debt to GDP, 10-year clock, it's [ __ ] ticking, >> but that debt might not actually matter.
And you might actually want to never pay it back. You have to inflate it away post World War II. I've talked about it a million times. You have to inflate it away, otherwise you get eaten alive by the interest. But you probably do want debt that you never pay back because you have an evil system. So you either have to get rid of the evil system or you have to create this moral hazard. And this is why it always moves in a loop where the money printing will get out of hand >> and it will get to the point where everybody else stops buying your debt, which is what we're living through now, moving to gold, which is another one we'll almost certainly do >> uh on Friday. And then you implode and you stop being the empire, but you had to keep printing money. You had to keep running deficits because you had to keep growing your GDP and you don't make anything anymore.
It's [ __ ] annoying. The more I learn about this [ __ ] the more I'm like, "Oh, it's just a cliff you have to drive off of."
>> And it all goes back to [ __ ] 1913, man. And people don't want to hear about it. And they don't want to hear about all the subtleties, and they don't want to build this mental model. And even I am like god damn it to get [clears throat] people to do the right behaviors. I need to bang on about don't deficit spend because of the moral hazard because of the fraud because it is the thing that will break your economy.
>> But at the same time if you pay all the debt back your GDP drops to zero.
>> It's [ __ ] wild. And so now it's like so Steve Keane who in some ways I want to headbutt. There's something about his value system I can tell I don't share.
But because I only care about what's true, he's on to some true [ __ ] I think it's early. Maybe I'll find out that this is a dead end, but I don't think so. I think this is almost certainly going to be like, "Oh, [ __ ] I see now what you have to pay attention to." And what's crazy, if it ends up being true, him more than most may be the one that sees like when the next thing breaks.
Now, the problem is you're never going to get the timing right. So, that's why he doesn't invest in the market. Isn't that crazy?
>> Wow. So you have an economist who may actually be the one that actually understands like when the what will cause the break. He'll never know the day, >> but he may be the one that really goes, "Oh, I know where the break is coming," >> but he won't bet on it. It's wild.
>> And so, oh [ __ ] it's so interesting. So anyway, when you have an obsession with just what is true, you find yourself in some pretty weird spots. And so this is why when I look at actually living a political life, I'm like, I'm I am constitutionally incapable of doing the political thing because all I care about is what works.
And you get to a point where the thing that works will be so confusing to people, they can't follow you. And so then you either start simplifying also.
So you start simplifying and you become a liar and you become the thing I hate and I'll never do that. Okay, so that finishes that thought. Um, I have a fear, Drew.
>> And now I'm literally just talking to you and if people happen to listen in, that's fine.
>> Um, we may run into a problem because right now when a deep dive or whatever pops off, the universal feedback we get is, "Oh, Tom, you can make these really complicated things easier to understand." And [snorts] the reason is I'm dumb. I know people don't think that's true, but it is true. But I'm just smart enough that I can struggle through this [ __ ] thing is so confusing. It's so hard for me to understand. And so I find all the places where I trip up >> and the only thing that helps me through is I'm obsessed with cause and effect.
That's the one thing I'll give me.
That's my I'm smart enough thing. And so I can build a map of this leads to this leads to this leads to this. And then okay, cool. I can map the cause and effect.
But it's because I trip up that I'm able to explain it because I know where I got caught and so I know where people are likely to get caught. Eventually, I'll forget all the places that I got caught and I'll sound like another economist.
That's like 90 layers deep. Forgetting that you don't understand the difference between real and nominal. Do you know how long it took me to figure out which one of those meant things were better and which one meant worse? I just couldn't wrap my head around so [ __ ] effort. Like, it took me probably the better part of two years to finally realize which one's good and which one's bad. [snorts] >> So, anyway, eventually I'm going to forget that I didn't know the difference and I'll just start saying, "But that's real. it's not nominal or that's nominal. It's not real. And then people be like, "Wait, what? I don't understand what these mean." H it's it makes me very sad.
>> Those moments that's when I be like, "Hey, Tom, for the people in the back, what's real or not?"
>> Maybe. Yes. And that will help. I hope.
Uh part of that may also be why I reinvent myself every 10 years because eventually I just get bored of saying the thing because I'm no longer >> in the middle of learning it anymore.
>> Yeah. Um I want to jump into it.
>> Oh, one last super chat though.
>> Oh, we have more super chats. Yeah, just one one or one more. Tabitha pardon with another 50.
>> Oh, she's back back to back. Tabitha, come through. You might as well come through the crib, man. Come hang out.
[laughter] >> Oh, making rain on us.
>> You guys are You guys are being amazing today. Thank you so much for the support. It has felt.
>> Uh Tom, thanks for all you do and answering my questions. You and the team are the best. Keep on uh keep on keeping on. P.S. Never stop talking about Dolly.
>> Dolly the sheep. Yeah. Uh that's awesome. Uh thank you. That's so generous. It's really generous. I appreciate that very much.
[snorts] >> Okay. Um, >> Rudicus, >> we're going to jump into the reaction in like two seconds, but there is a really good point, and I think that this is something that you said before, but sometimes the chat just needs to hear it out loud.
>> Yep.
>> Cyan Spark, how is it, Tom has such a good system, but he can't see the griff of folks like Elon and Trump. I don't understand the blind spot.
>> So, >> I don't understand. How many How many other words do I have to say on that?
>> That's what I mean. So, okay. Um, uh, Trump is a grifter. Sure, no problem. I the the amount of things Drew's breakdown earlier of I'm stepping over all this corruption to get to um some populist takeaway is emotionally devastating for him. It is emotionally devastating for me. Uh so whatever words I think what you want is I never should have voted for him.
That might be the thing you're looking for. And given the person that I had to choose between, I still, despite all of Trump's corruptions, think I voted for the right person. Um, given my two realistic choices. Uh, I've done a diet tribe on that before, so I'll set that aside for now, but know that I have very deep and articulatable reasons for why that is true. Um, so I don't know that I'll ever be able to give people the emotional satisfaction that they want there. Um, Destiny will be able to give you that. He is more emotionally animated by the right than the left, even though I think he has problems with both. I'm the same way, but I'm more emotionally animated by my problems with the left. And so, you're just always going to see me come alive more there.
But, I've said you could do a super clip that would be 30 minutes long of me just berating Trump. So, I'm not sure what people think. Uh, you would have an impossible time putting a clip together of me being like, "Trump is a super genius." So, um, yeah, I'm not sure what else people are looking for there. Uh, there was a second part to that. What was the other thing? You can't see the griff of Elon. Uh, okay. So, um, I think people are out of their minds to think that on balance, um, Elon is a grifter.
That that's absurd in the extreme. Uh, so you've never had an entrepreneur innovate more. even if all he does is aggregate the people that are innovating and point them in the right direction, which I don't think is true. But even if that is true, um he's extraordinarily good at that. I don't think people understand entrepreneurship well enough to understand what he's actually done to be an extraordinary entrepreneur in um the 20th or 21st century. You have to simultaneously be good at the engineering as well as the financialization and the PR of it all.
He he's just unmatched. So, um that was crazy. he he is transforming um earth and what's possible. So the fact that you may also have beef with him from a political standpoint or you think he's racist or whatever, I'm not sure what specifically you're picking up on, but the guy worth over a trillion dollars is not trying to like scrabble out a few extra dollars. Uh he is he has a belief system and he puts money into politics to make sure that his belief system comes to fruition.
>> That's it.
>> I will give the chatter this. I think Elon's grift is more for power than money if anything.
>> But if you're saying that people do a thing to gain and retain power, yes, [ __ ] And I would invite you to do the same. Like you're a [ __ ] if you're not.
>> The difference is like I guess with Elon and listen like it's >> Yeah, he's smart and everything. He's an entrepreneur, but like he's trying trying to incite a race war in the UK.
>> He's not think I'll let you go through each and every one, but we need to take them one at a time. So he's trying to incite a race war that that he would have no incentive for doing that. So he is trying to and this is we're both mind readading. My mind read of him which I'm sure will be not perfect but goes like this. He understands the power of western civilization quite literally as an engineer. So, as an engineer, he's going cause and effect is the only thing that matters. And you guys have a system of woke ideology that literally breaks with cause and effect. Like, we didn't get to it. And I definitely blame Drew for this, but one thing. No, no, no. For real. For real, for real. Uh, and and every time I put something like every time I put something like this in the dock, I'm like, he's never gonna pull this. And and it may be fair enough, and maybe it is unfair of me to blame him for this, but I put in there, "Whiteness sounds pretty dope. Where do I sign up?
And he did not pull this. And uh whiteness does sound pretty dope. And where do I sign up? It is crazy to me.
If you guys have not seen this, there is the Smithsonian's white supremacy list.
You can read their actual document. It is [ __ ] crazy. And it talks about how all the greatest things in the world that every human being, regardless of background, skin color, all of it, adopt these things immediately. If you want emotional resilience, um, success in love, financial success, all of these things must be adopted. And if whoever wrote this is so [ __ ] stupid that they're going to assign this to white people and say this is a white thing, what a [ __ ] ignoramus. And you are condemning people by knowing that in this cultural moment that people that aren't white, even some people that are white, think that being white is bad. So you're you're taking all of these things and basically saying, "Well, this is basically uh Nazi shit." Dude, that is [ __ ] [ __ ] in like the extreme to a level that is absolute it it is aggravating and animating to a level that is hard to express because of what it will do to other people. It's not going to affect me. I've already adopted all these principles because they work so [ __ ] well. And Elon, the way that I map him is that he sees people taking these ideas that are engineering perfect from what they do to your emotional mindset, how they help you be an entrepreneur, how they help you control your own life, find success, all of that. And they racialize it and will turn some percentage of people against it. It it is so asine. So anyway, when I see him out there banging the drum for Tommy Robinson or whatever, that's what I see. Now, do I think that he does it like somebody with autism?
Yes. Do I wish he would stay the [ __ ] out of some of this stuff? Yes. But honestly, on that, people should probably ignore me because if he hadn't bought Twitter, the world would look very differently because people could not see other voices. They were being systemically suppressed during COVID for sure. And he brought us out of that fever dream. And so despite the fact that sometimes you see some of the things he says and you're like, "God damn." Uh I don't think that's somebody that's like, "Oh, this is what I have to do to stay in power." This is an engineer who has put this stuff to use in his own life and this is me projecting because this is exactly why I feel the way that I feel. Is I took myself from scrging my couch cushions to find enough change to put gas in my car.
That is a real story to building a billion dollar company, selling it, all that. Okay. So then I go, "Yo, I want other people to be able to do this." And so you start telling them what you do and you get a violent backlash and you get very confused. Like the first blog post I ever wrote was, "If you get hit by a drunk driver, it's all your fault."
That idea changed my life completely for the better. Made everything better. And the backlash I got on that was extraordinary. So anyway, that's how I map him.
>> First one, he started a race war. second thing.
>> Oh, I mean to save time because we got to go to the third. I'll just leave it at I think a lot of times we map this guy as some and to not we but like as a society uh we map this guy as some super genius and he is very smart. He has a lot of good innovations. He's got some good ideas. But the reality is he he's just a looney grifter who says whatever he feels in the moment and he just wants more and more power. That's his only goal.
>> That's so wild. That's so wild. I mean, like, this guy showed up to >> I was at the Fallout press party back when I was doing like journalism and stuff, and this guy showed up to the Fallout press party, the the show that came out.
>> Oh. Oh. Oh, right. Makes a lot of sense, but he was cutting the line, you know, interjecting during the actual screening of it and talking while all of us were trying to review the show. He's just not He's pompous and he's an ass, I guess, is my >> I'll give you all of that. I bet being around him is a [ __ ] nightmare.
>> Yeah, it sucked. Uh, so I on that one >> I know he got like six baby moms. You got to have some motion to $1.2 trillion [laughter] to all the >> You know what I'm saying? Like actually is a weirdo, but you know that's a good pool. That's a good pool. He got game at least, >> bro.
>> $1.2 trillion is all the game anyone needs. He could legit be deformed.
[cough and laughter] >> He could be deformed. It wouldn't matter. Um, so yeah, >> deformed [laughter] is great.
>> He could be deformed is great. I I think that is uh the most insane read on Elon Musk ever.
>> And I think life is going to be um very surprising to you at every turn if you're not able to separate he is a [ __ ] who I wouldn't want to hang out with from he is just that is your quote a whatever grifter. Um, so yeah, it when you try to run a company and I've played this clip before, but there's a phenomenal movie called Steve Jobs >> or just Jobs. I can never remember which one.
>> I think it's just Jobs, but yeah, >> but the one though.
>> Yeah, there's two.
>> There are one one is Steve Jobs and one is Jobs.
>> I've seen Jobs.
>> Okay, so then Jobs is the good one almost certainly. Uh, [laughter] it's one Michael Fazbender.
>> The Sorin one. The Sorcin one.
>> Yeah, Sorcin.
>> I'm thinking of the Sorcin one. Maybe it's not. Let me I'll look it up while you're >> And it is No, no, not the Koocher one.
>> The Ker is the bad boy. Kutcher is the bad one. [laughter] >> Oh, it's Steve Jobs. That's >> So Steve Jobs by Sorcin with Michael Fazbender.
>> Yeah.
>> Yep. [laughter] There there is a scene where Seth Rogan who plays Steve Waznjak the co-founder of Apple uh probably an apocryphal exchange but nonetheless completely brilliant and he comes up to Jobs when I say once you understand this exchange you will be so much closer to understanding entrepreneurship. Um, and as a side story, it took me four years of film school plus probably another two or three years out in um, the land of actually making films before I understood what a producer does. Okay, so movie >> it's it's actually hard to understand when you're young. That is right.
>> So, you've got um, >> Wnjak comes up to Steve Jobs and says, "What do you even do? You didn't make the Macintosh. you didn't code any of the code that runs, you know, the stuff that you're getting credit for. And everybody thinks that it's you. It's not you. And he says, "Was you play in the band and you're the best person in your row, but I play the orchestra."
Now, if you don't understand what it means to play the orchestra, if you don't understand that, that involves what do journalists think about you?
What do they think about your company?
What are they saying about you? Because that's going to affect your share price.
Your share price is going to affect how much money you can raise, which will determine what you can do in the company. when Steve Jobs realized that the company was going in the wrong direction and so he went to another office and planted a pirate flag on top of it and he started a skunks work program when he ends up getting fired from Apple but then coming back and having to rebuild the culture and getting them to focus on the right things. It's like you had literally the great man theory of history play out because that [ __ ] got fired from his company. It goes downhill faster than anything. he ends up coming back and is able to completely revolutionize the company. So you can't say it was market forces or anything like that. It was one [ __ ] guy who made it the one of the biggest companies in the world.
They fire him, it becomes like a [ __ ] hole. They bring him back, it becomes the biggest company in the world for a while. And so that is all coming down to understanding playing the orchestra is is a psychotic [snorts] interwoven nest of these insanely difficult skills. And quite literally, nobody in human history has been as good at playing the orchestra as Elon Musk.
Period. Full stop. End of story. There's no one that can compete. There are people that have been sort of vaguely in his league in the same way that there are people that are vaguely in his league from a wealth perspective, but he's still bigger than number two by whatever 300%. So, it it is an unprecedented thing and we should all look at it and go, "Well, I'm never going to take advice from him on raising kids. Uh I wouldn't want to sit next to him in a movie theater. I don't want to know him on a personal level, but god damn am I glad that I'm on the timeline with him because he [ __ ] catches rockets with [ __ ] chopsticks." The entire nation of China had to wait till he did it until they could do it. Let that [ __ ] land. Like, it's unbelievable.
This guy is unreal. And again, I'm not saying he's the one that [ __ ] built the rocket. I'm saying he is the one that's able to aggregate these people, convince them to come work for him, able to get the dollars, focus people when they're not focused on the right thing, be on the production floor, and realize that this could be better. Think from first principles. It is just an absolute insane set of skills. I don't think there is a human on earth that can acquire human capital the way that Elon Musk can. Even though people know he's an [ __ ] he's that [ __ ] good at what he does. So, yeah, man. I get it.
There are things about him you hate, and I think those are probably all justified. But if you lump all of that together, [sighs] you will miss out on a truth of the way the world works that I would hate to see you blinded to. Let's go. Let's [laughter] go. First up from Ryan uh Ryan Vining Tube says, "Tom, for AI companions, you can integrate into your game and uh devices that will promote what actually works, teach skills, and be pronatalist. Talk to Malcolm and Simon Collins from base camp."
>> Wow. The pronatalist thing that that came out of left field for me. Um so I am pronatalist. I'm very sad.
>> What does that mean?
>> Uh have babies, have lots and lots of babies. So I did not have kids. Um that that was a very conscious decision. Um I'm so grateful to everybody that does have kids. If I were younger, I probably would have felt like real a moral obligation to have kids. Um so I get that for now. I will just thank anybody and everybody for having kids. It's so important. Have as many kids as you can.
Pronatal, yay. Um and I certainly obviously have no beef if you don't choose that, but boy do I hope more and more people do. Uh so yeah, but on that for AI companions integrate into your game devices. Uh are you worried that it won't?
>> No, you could teach them to be skills and teach them to be proatalist.
>> Yeah. Yes. Yes. Like as a default thing for sure. I won't get So if you dear parents, if you want to know because I am going to admittedly try to indoctrinate your kids in my video game.
Uh, but I'm only going to indoctrinate them with one idea, and that is what I call the only belief that matters. If you put time and energy into getting better, you will get better. That's it.
It's what I call an empowering mindset.
Beyond that, I think it not not even beyond that, I hope that you will um be excited to see that your kids are playing our game because, you know, that's my like core belief system. All the other I'm not going to be teaching about economies and having kids and all that like uh that I'll leave that up to parents. But uh that one idea I am definitely going to make the core of everything that I put out.
>> Chipper Tracy says, "Thomas, your audience doesn't get the joy of holding a 500 yen coin, feeling like a pirate then losing it because you want to buy a fami cheeky from Lawson." Don't know what that is. I have to look that up.
Physical money helps people conceptualize the loss from inflation.
I don't think physical money actually does help them understand the loss from inflation because you have the same number of dollars. I think it's very hard for people to look at. I have a stack of $100 bills. I still have the stack of $100 bills. Uh and so it's very difficult for them to go, oh, but it now buys me fire fewer uh ice cream cones.
Like that's where people are just like it's very, oh, it's a chicken nugget. I should >> It's like a big fried chicken thing. It looks good.
>> Amazing. Um, so yes, going and buying things that definitely does, but I think people will notice that with a credit card or with physical cash.
>> Um, yeah, I don't have any particular emotional attachment to physical cash personally.
>> How do you feel about Trump being on a uh the $1 coin?
>> That's so dumb. It's really dumb. It's really [laughter] dumb. It It's one of those It's so egotistical. How did people not go? Okay, so when now this will be ironic because obviously this is the Tom Billy show. But when we started Impact Theory, everyone was like, you need to call this Tom Billy Studios. And I was like, I do not want to do that. I don't want people to have to get out of the way of my identity to feel a sense of like emotional ownership. Now look, I get it. Disney named it after himself and nobody thinks of Walt when they think of Disney. It just becomes a thing. But I do think in the beginning you have to overcome that and I didn't want that. So um yeah, to me that's not a big thing. So anyway, I feel gross with that kind of like self-reflective look at me, look at me. Um, Trump obviously does not.
>> Uh, also for the fam cheeky, it says on the little bow tie, I am chicken. And [laughter] I just think that's really funny. It >> It's funny that you have to like announce that. People can't tell. That's probably a bad idea. Uh Higbo X05, another one of Elon's kids by that name says, "My culture is so [laughter] >> my culture is to appreciate and fight for my country. BI's culture is to treat others nations as his personal economic zone and complain when the second country rejects his hubris."
>> That's fair. Listen, I love Bology. I think he's brilliant. I really hope that he's able to push what I think are very good ideas deeper into the world. But especially now we're living through a moment where we realize that you need some sort of geographical boundary to say um these values are going to become manifest in law. And it is very annoying when people come from somewhere else bringing a totally different value system. And now you have to fight against the people in your own country that already believe things that you think are anathema to your values. And now you've got people from all over the [ __ ] world coming bringing their own [ __ ] ideas uh and having to fight against that as well. This is the same reason that only my wife and I live in the house, which is that's that the house run the way we want the house run.
Period. End of story. Uh, and so >> you mean like that's why your parents and stuff like, you know, move family in here.
>> I would not move family in here.
>> Got it. Okay. I was like, where did that come from?
>> I've always told my wife, my mother, um, >> you will never have to worry about being taken care of or loved, but you will not be living in the house with us.
>> So, um, yeah, not not my stick. question things says, "What you're talking about, Musk." Uh, when you're talking about Musk, uh, oh, no, no, that is what what you're talking about with Musk, I call social capital. I wrote a chapter about it in my last book, and I'm making a video about it. Those who understand it win, those who don't lose.
>> Shout out to Question Things. He makes good videos.
>> Yeah. Does he?
>> Let's go. Watch.
>> Yeah.
>> He dropped one in Discord. It was It was very well done.
>> Let's go. Question Things.
>> Oh, that's Question Things.
>> Yeah. It wasn't like a janky like shaky cam. It was very well produced.
I like it. That's dope. It's a good statement.
>> Thanks. And that's the last super chat >> word. Oh, nice. Awesome. Well, thank you guys all today. It was a big day for super chats. Very, very appreciated. You guys are extraordinarily generous. We do not ever take that support for granted.
So much appreciated. Speaking of support to Straight Arrow News, you guys are dope. We're so grateful. What you put out into the world is fantastic. If you guys don't know about Straight Arrow News, they are all about giving you something straight down the middle. It is the facts. There's no spin. So go to s.com/tombbillu so you can get the unbiased truth on the stories that matter. Uh and our goal, as you guys may remember, is to get to a 100 app downloads. We want to keep this partnership rocking. So if you haven't already, go there. There's no manipulation, no bias, no agenda. Just discover the facts and the context you need to make sense of the story yourself. Get beyond the chaos and anxiety of biased media. We know that it's all out there. All right. Love you guys. bunches and we have another ITU master class coming up Wednesday, August 5th at 1 PM. I'm It's free, free, free, free free and I will show you how to use AI to launch a company. Make sure that you join me again Wednesday, August 5th at 1 p.m. Love you guys. We'll see you on Friday. Peace. You Some people want you to say you're you're sign off.
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