Fatty Liver Disease: How To Reverse It FAST | Dr. Neal Barnard

Added: 2026-05-06

[00:00:00]One in three people worldwide are estimated to have fatty liver disease.

[00:00:05]Are you one of them? We're going to talk about it coming up on the exam room.

[00:00:12]Thank you so very much for watching and downloading in more than 150 countries around the world and making the exam room one of the most consumed nutrition podcasts anywhere on the planet today.

[00:00:21]And the focus on this episode is going to be on fatty liver disease. Now, here in the United States, it's estimated 1 in four adults have fatty liver disease.

[00:00:30]Worldwide, about 30% of adults have it.

[00:00:33]But then for people who have type 2 diabetes, that number jumps way up to 55 to as much as 70% of that population are believed to have it. So, you're talking about millions and millions and millions of people living with fatty liver disease. But can it be reversed? What are the risks? To talk all about that with us today is somebody who you know quite well. Uh he is the founder, the president of the physicians committee, bestselling author, Dr. Neil Barnard.

[00:00:57]Thanks for being here again, my friend.

[00:00:58]>> Great to be with you, Chuck.

[00:01:00]>> Fatty liver disease. We just rattled off some fancy statistics. Uh seems like millions and millions of people and silly question to ask, but how big of a problem are we really facing with this?

[00:01:09]First of all, the liver is the body's filter. It's there to take the toxins out of your body. If it can't function, you can't survive. Um and think about the the the liver. The liver is a huge organ in the middle of your abdomen and the blood is going through it and the liver is trying to think what do I need to pull out of the blood there are toxins there are things you've inhaled there are things you've ingested there are medicines and the liver has to think is this a problem or not what should I do and then it sends them out of the body and in the process it can get hit by these very same toxins so uh many many people have liver problems uh the liver has got a tough job to do. And if your liver doesn't function, it's not compatible with life.

[00:01:58]>> I mean, I would say so. It's it's I mean, it's a huge or I mean, do how much does the average liver weigh? I mean, like, it's got to be a couple pounds at least, right?

[00:02:05]>> Yes, I would guess more than that.

[00:02:06]>> Yeah, >> I would guess more than that. And with fatty liver, it's more still because what's happening is that fat is getting into the liver, individual liver cells.

[00:02:15]It's building up. It's building up. It's building up. And that that's kind of the first phase. The fatty liver means fats getting into the cells. The second phase is where the problems really get serious because this is triggering an inflammatory process where the liver starts to be destroyed and that's where cerosis comes in. That means the cells are are dying and it it's causing a scarring process and ultimately that could be fatal. We've talked in the past about when it comes to diabetes, uh, intramiocellular lipid, whereas the fat goes into, you know, the muscle cells.

[00:02:50]Is it gunking up the liver in the same way? Is that kind of how this process works?

[00:02:54]>> It's happening exactly the same way. The the liver cells need insulin in order to be able to pull sugar out of the blood.

[00:03:00]And if the the liver cells are filled with fat, they're not accepting uh the sugar anymore. Um, and so this is a big first step toward type two diabetes, all the problems that go along with that.

[00:03:12]>> All right, before we get to kind of the remedies, some things that people may want to try those interventions, um, let me ask you, what are the big culprits in terms of causing somebody to get it because again, I mean, we're talking like one in four people here in the States and about one in three worldwide.

[00:03:28]That's a lot of people. Dr. Bernard, >> well, maybe we start with the most famous one and that's alcohol. Um, alcohol is not your liver's friend. Um, and a person can have alcoholic liver disease. Um, and that causes cerosis and can end your life quite prematurely.

[00:03:43]Alcohol is a toxin that the liver tries to get rid of.

[00:03:47]>> Yeah.

[00:03:48]>> Um, but right behind that is fatty foods in general. Fatty foods in general will park some of their fat into the liver and it builds up and builds up and builds up. Now, that's reversible to a great degree. You get the fat in, the fat will come out. Um and so um those are those are big drivers. Now people will think well how about sugary foods and so forth because the liver can store that as fat. Theoretically true. Um but it's behind the fatty foods uh in regards to the amount of risk that it poses because the fat is already fat.

[00:04:21]The liver's got to deal with it. Sugar it can convert to fat if it needs to.

[00:04:25]>> What would you say is the bigger problem in terms of driving up you know a person's risk? because it seems to me like there are far more people uh who struggle with their eating habits than there are heavy drinkers. So I would imagine the non-alcoholic form of fatty liver is far more prevalent than the alcohol form.

[00:04:42]>> Very prevalent and totally asymptomatic at the beginning. So person has no idea they even have it.

[00:04:48]>> Um but the doctor spots it and um and hopefully intervenes.

[00:04:53]>> So what are kind of the long-term risk factors here? You say like it's the body's biggest organ. You mentioned cerosis. I mean, as this continues to progress, as the disease continues to progress, you are we talking about like major major major medical ailments that a person might find and potentially even fatality.

[00:05:14]>> Yes. Um along the way this is this becomes part of the metabolic syndrome overall where you're seeing people where their blood sugars are going up, their blood pressure is going up, their weight is going up and all those things are toxic not just to the liver but to all the organs to anything that depends on a blood supply. The the blood supplies is at risk as well. So you see a huge range of problems and it's associated with premature death.

[00:05:38]>> All right. Uh let's go ahead and open up the doctor's mailbag and if there's a question that you have for Dr. Barer posted in the comments or in the chat.

[00:05:44]We're going to get to as many as we can here on the program today. Let's open up with a question from Danielle um who's wants to go into um you know kind of reversing it and she's wondering you know are there specific plant foods uh very keen that she's she's saying plant foods right off the top. Are there specific plant foods that have been shown to actively reduce that fat that's stored in the liver?

[00:06:07]>> Okay, great question actually. Um, for starting off more generally speaking, um, our research team brought in a large group of people, 244 research volunteers, and we tested a diet that had no animal products in it. So, it removed anything from an animal as well as any fat from an animal source. No, no animal fat. We also kept vegetable oils very, very low. So, in this case, we're not emphasizing what's added, but what's taken away. And when you're basically pulling all the fat out of the diet practically and leaving just little bit little traces in some vegetable and fruit and so forth, what we discovered is we could pull a third of the liver fat out in the first 16 weeks. So it comes out fast. Um that liver fat builds up year after year after year. But when you're not consuming the animal fat at all and very little vegetable fat, that fat just comes out. And so the fatty liver is effectively cured in many of the participants. Okay. Now drilling down a little bit more, the foods that in large research studies seem to be associated with effect the most are the vegetables and fruits as a group. Um something about the vegetables and fruits seems to be helpful. So it's not just a question of avoiding animal products. It's emphasizing the vegetable and fruit group. And then if I want to drill down a little bit more, they're all good. A banana is good and so forth, but look for color because the ant-ioxidantrich foods block the inflammation. Remember I said at the beginning that the fat goes into the liver cells and as the fat goes into the liver cells, it starts to trigger an inflammatory process which is what kills the organ.

[00:07:49]>> It's what knocks out those cells. So, if I'm not only avoiding the fat so I can pull the fat out, but I'm giving that liver those antioxidants, the the the the blue in a blueberry, the anthocyanins, the red in a strawberry, the red in a tomato, um the orange in a in a carrot, those antioxidants protect the liver cells.

[00:08:13]>> And let me ask you this. So, you were talking about the fat kind of being pulled out of the liver when you start to eat a lot of these lowfat foods, the plant-based foods in particular, they go in there, they suck. My question, and I actually honestly feel a little bit stupid asking this. So, when you say like it sucks it out, is that the body burning it off like it does other fat tissue in the body just because there's a caloric deficit or is it literally being sucked physically out of the liver? Like, what's going on there? Um what we we did not evaluate the mechanism. We evaluated the change.

[00:08:45]Yeah. But the mechanism I think is both of these things because there is sort of a homeostasis between what's in the cell and what's out of the cell and and the cell does use some of the fat as as a fuel. So both of those things can happen. But the the important thing is it happens rapidly.

[00:09:01]>> Yeah.

[00:09:01]>> And it will not happen if you don't do this. Um if a person says, "Well, >> give me a little salmon instead." Um that that shook salmon's 52% fat and your liver will store that until the cows come home.

[00:09:15]>> Um >> what would you say to somebody that's like, "Well, wait a minute. I heard salmon was a healthy fat." Dr. Barard, >> you'll have a liver full of healthy fat.

[00:09:24]>> Could you say the same thing? Go for an avocado or bunn of nuts.

[00:09:28]>> Yes, you can. You can have a liver full of peanut butter fat or avocado fat. It is true that certain fats are healthier than others and avocado doesn't have so much saturated fat compared with animal fat or compared with coconut oil. The avocado is better, but your body was not designed for a diet rich in avocados.

[00:09:49]Um, the human species did not evolve eating peanut butter and avocados and coconuts, highfat food all the time. And I know that because our economy is such that we can have those foods delivered to our door every single day, that doesn't mean your body's designed for it. Our our bodies are designed for lower much much much lower fat intake.

[00:10:08]>> Uh Britney, so okay. Well, now wait a minute. You were just talking about all these brightly colored foods, but what about the almighty leafy greens? Do they play a specific role in helping combat fatty liver?

[00:10:19]>> You know, the leafy greens um got a huge shot in the arm. Uh there was a researcher at Hopkins, John's Hopkins in Baltimore named Paul Tallelet and he discovered the most amazing thing. You know, the liver's big job is to detoxify stuff. And he found out that there is a compound called sulforophane.

[00:10:39]It's in green leafy vegetables, especially the cruciferous vegetables like broccoli, uh Brussels sprouts. And when you feed this to a person, you sit down, give a research volunteer a good serving of broccoli or other cruciferous vegetables, within 24 to 48 hours, their liver cells are making a compound uh or or they're making enzymes, sorry, that the sulforophane in these foods causes them to make enzymes that are super detoxifiers. And the way it works is your liver sees a toxic compound, something in the blood that doesn't belong there, a pesticide or a heteroscyclic amine that came from meat or whatever. That toxic compound comes floating along and one enzyme grabs a hold of it. Kind of like a cup putting um handcuffs on on your wrist.

[00:11:31]>> Yeah.

[00:11:31]>> And then it takes the other end uh and wants to hook it onto another molecule to carry it out of the body, escort it out. And that's where the these um cruciferous vegetables come in. They cause the body to make more of what are called phase 2 enzymes that are like cops that want to carry you to prison and they just pull the toxins right out.

[00:11:51]So um if the liver is filled with toxins and it's creating an inflammatory mua, the more you can strengthen its healthy functions and get rid of the of the toxins, the better off you are. And at the top of that list is broccoli and all its cousins. All right, if you're just joining us, you're watching Cops Kale and fatty liver disease. Hi, I'm Chuck, your host. Um, healthy justice, man.

[00:12:13]That's that's pretty interesting. Um, Kevin's got a question, though. All right, talking vegetables, you're talking fruits. Let's talk, you know, legumes, beans. What role do they play here and giving the liver a boost?

[00:12:25]>> Okay. Well, beans are famous for being low-fat protein. True. That's good. So, that helps you to get the fat out of the liver. Um, they're more than that. Um if you look at what does a bean do to your blood sugar? Answer is not much you know so it's starchy but unlike say um um many grains with where the blood sugar might raise a rise a little bit more quickly beans are really low glycemic index. They just leave your blood sugar alone.

[00:12:55]>> Where that's good is if your liver is having a little trouble. Um you're the sugars are coming into your blood very gradually. They come to the liver really gradually. It doesn't stress out the liver. So beans are good from that standpoint. The last thing, and people do not think about this, but let's give the bean a little respect.

[00:13:12]>> Give the beans some respect. Put some flowers on that bean, people.

[00:13:15]>> Exactly. And here's Yeah. Here's what I'm talking about, Chuck. Look at a kidney bean. A kidney bean is a dark purplish kind of color. Look at a black bean. Very dark color. What is that? Is that there to make it distinguish from some other kind of bean? Those are anthocyanins.

[00:13:29]So, blueberries brag about their anthocyanins, though. That's what makes them blue. Um, strawberries have another one, but beans have them, too. Yeah.

[00:13:37]>> So, so beans, beans have protein, they've got fiber, soluble fiber, insoluble fiber, and they they're very low in fat, but they don't have a good PR group to cheerlead for the bean. Um, but if they did, we would point out that it is rich in anthosinus and these are good, healthy foods.

[00:13:54]>> Yeah, man. Industry is so powerful.

[00:13:56]Can't we get a big bean lobby? I mean, wouldn't that be before?

[00:13:59]>> No, there is a bean lobby. There is a bean lobby, but they they need more love than they're getting. And when the dietary guidelines came out from >> the current administration, January 7th, they were talking about getting protein.

[00:14:10]They said, "Where do you get protein?"

[00:14:11]"Uh, gee, uh, meat." I guess you get protein. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Where's beans in this? Beans are a rich source of cholesterol-free protein, and they need some love.

[00:14:20]>> Uh, we get kind of nuanced, I think, a lot of times when it comes to a particular type of bean. You mentioned, you know, the darker color beans, the black beans, the kidney beans, the ones that have the anthocyanin, but much in the way that we kind of debate white rice versus brown rice, it's like if the humble pinto bean is all that's available, you're still doing pretty good here, right?

[00:14:39]>> Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You're doing great. And and variety is a good thing.

[00:14:42]>> Yeah, >> variety is good. Uh partly because it gives you the nutritional variety you need. The other part is it gives you some culinary variety, too. Yeah. You know, you you you want to have kidney beans. You want you want to have black beans and so forth. It lends themselves to different kinds of tastes. You know, the Yucatan Peninsula of Mexico. That's their staple. Enjoy those kinds of foods. The chickpea is their first cousin, but that brings in Italian flavors and so forth. So, have variety both because nutritionally that's good, but also because it's good in the kitchen.

[00:15:13]>> I've been experimenting, by the way, speaking of, you know, Italian cooking and and chickpeas. I've been experimenting putting um chickpeas in my marinara sauce recently. It's actually really good.

[00:15:22]>> Yeah.

[00:15:22]>> Yeah. Like I would have never thought in a million years instead of, you know, putting meat in there, it's like you put the chickpeas in there, you get a nice, you know, I call it a meaty flavor, but you you get that heartiness that comes with it. It's it's a brilliant thing.

[00:15:35]>> Chickpeas are so versatile. Uh you can have them just for breakfast. Um you know, if you go to the store and you got a can of chickpeas, open it up, drain it out, and have some for I mean, it's very very tasty. You you can use it for everything. I when I was practicing in New York, I had a a morning breakfast place that I that I would visit sometimes and they had hummus and it was run by a man from the Middle East. He said, "Do you know where I'm from?

[00:16:00]>> Hummus is our breakfast food. You people think of it as your lunch." Uhuh. But it was um so chickpeas good any time of day.

[00:16:07]>> Yeah. Well, listen, I will take it uh two steps, not just one step with the hummus. Number one, hummus is a 24/7 food, which means it is appropriate for every meal, every snack, even dessert, my friends. You know, a and and and the second step here is that as I said before, hummus deserves to be its own food group. This is a fact because it is such a versatile food and you can make it in a variety of ways, in a variety of flavors. It needs to be its own food group. So, in the 2030 dietary guidelines, 2031, I want hummus on that that pyramid man standalone.

[00:16:40]>> I am with you. And you know, people don't realize how easy it is to make.

[00:16:43]You can buy it >> and you can look at the lower fat fat brands and so forth, but once put it in a food processor. It's the simplest thing in the world. And you can use pre-cooked uh garbanzos, kidney bean, um garbanzos, chickpeas. Throw them throw them in. Um your recipe will say throw in a boatload of tahini and some olive oil. Leave the olive oil out completely and you can use just a trace of tahini and put in whatever flavors you want. Do you want some scallions in there? Do you want a little garlic in there? Do you want a little spice in there? It costs pennies. And And if you want to make it creamier, don't add lots of oil. Add a little extra water. Make it a little bit uh thinner.

[00:17:23]>> And then you pack it up. And it is it is the cheapest, greatest way to to to eat.

[00:17:29]And you can use it as a dip. You can make a sandwich, put on a sliced tomato with it. Um, mother nature is going to bring its chickpea gift to you.

[00:17:35]>> Yeah, man. Use it instead of milk with your cereal. It's great. Um, you can actually add black bean. Have you had black bean hummus like now?

[00:17:42]>> Does that work?

[00:17:42]>> Yes, sir. You just add the black beans to the chickpeas. You want to talk about extra creaminess plus the anthocyanin kick, my friend. What you have there is a liver healthy recipe that is next level.

[00:17:53]>> I'm going to try that.

[00:17:53]>> I think you should, my friend. All right, let's take a question from Natalie. Changing gears here a little bit. She wants to talk about sugar.

[00:18:00]She's got a little bit of a sweet tooth.

[00:18:01]And Natalie, Dr. Barnard says that there is a lot of fear about sugar. Rightfully so. But should people with fatty liver disease be cautious about the sugar that's found in fruit or is that overblown?

[00:18:13]>> It's overblown. Um, and this has been an issue for a long time. Uh, it is true that when people have maybe they've gained a little bit of weight and there's fat in their cells, then kind of anything that has sugar in it makes their blood sugar rise.

[00:18:26]>> Even some some fruit will do it. And so they think, well, I shouldn't eat any of that. But but you just gave up the food that is really low in fat and really high in anthocyanins and fruit should be a bigger part of your diet. Now it doesn't mean you have to eat a huge amount of it at one time. You can space it out a little bit. But if you're looking for something to avoid, fruit should not be higher than the list. Get away from the fatty foods first. That allows your cells to handle sugar better and bit by bit you'll discover that you do well with fruit.

[00:18:55]>> All right. And Eric is kind of new to healthy eating. He's in his second week of eating a plant-based diet. Um, and is definitely a little sugar phobic. Um, doesn't quite understand the difference between sugar that you would find in say a Coca-Cola versus the sugar that is in a banana, which you mentioned earlier.

[00:19:12]Um, so in terms of the fiber that's with the sugar in the banana, what role does that play in how the body processes natural versus refined sugars differently?

[00:19:21]>> Yeah, well, it's a couple things. um if it's in the a food like a banana that partly it's because there is fiber in there that that it's a healthy food. Um even though there are natural sugars, the fiber helps. Uh but it's also some of that sugar, a lot of that sugar is in the form of complex carbohydrate, meaning it's sugar molecules hooked together >> that the body has to digest and separate out. So that means the effect on your blood sugar is really pretty gentle.

[00:19:50]>> That's it. Sounds to me like we there's a lot of similarities with this in terms of things that can help reverse um eliminate a lot of those fat. It just seems like the remedy is shaping up to be very similar to the type of treatment that you might prescribe for somebody who's got diabetes.

[00:20:08]>> Um very similar.

[00:20:10]>> Yeah, I I think you're exactly right.

[00:20:11]And and let me say a word to all those folks who put on their continuous glucose monitor and they just ate some food and their their blood sugar spiked and they're freaked out about that. A little bit of a blood sugar spike is normal. You ate some food that gave some sugar into your bloodstream which is a fuel for you. And so your body says thank you this I'm going to use this sugar and it parks it in your liver cells or in your muscle cells for when you are doing the things that you're going to do in the course of the day. So, it's normal for the blood sugar to rise a little bit. If it if it does not rise dramatically or stay high for a long period of time, then that's totally normal and that's what should happen.

[00:20:53]>> And let's talk about I I love whenever we're talking about blood sugar spikes to also talk about the aftermeal calorie burn or as Dr. Hanakalva likes to call it the thermic effect of food, right?

[00:21:03]>> Um does that come into play here? I mean, as you eat more fiber, you know, you keep that metabolism up. Does that help to, you know, burn off the fat that's in the liver a little bit more quickly?

[00:21:13]>> Yes, that that's exactly what happens.

[00:21:15]Um, in our research studies and the ones that, um, that Dr. Kiov has been part of, of course, or has directed, um, what you see >> is that you can sit a person down, test their metabolic rate, how fast are they burning calories u with, and you give them a test meal and you you see that thermic effect kicking in because the meal that they're eating causes them to burn off more calories. Then you decide, I'm going to prime your body. You put them on a vegan diet, no animal products. You keep oils really low. Then you sit them in the same chair, give them exactly the same test meal, and their metabolic burn is about 15% higher. It's not because of that meal.

[00:21:52]It's the same meal. It's because you primed them by what did you do with the vegan diet? You, if it's a low-fat vegan diet, you just yank some of the fat out of their liver. You yank the fat out of their muscles. When that happens, their mitochondria rebound, the burners in the muscle cells, burners in the liver cells, and they say, "I'll take it from here. I'm going to burn up that sugar." And that's what happens.

[00:22:14]>> Get it? All right. Uh, let's talk about whole grains. Uh, why not? Lauren wondering, "How do whole grains like oats and brown rice impact fatty liver compared to refined grains?" All right.

[00:22:24]So, now we are in the weeds a little bit here.

[00:22:26]>> We are, but oats are your friend. Okay.

[00:22:28]Um, and we don't want to say anything bad about them because yes, they lower cholesterol. Well, that's what they're advertised for. Um, but they are also low a low GI food, low glycemic index food. Um, and the more it's like it grew in the plant, like the steel cut oats.

[00:22:45]>> Yeah.

[00:22:46]>> Um, the better it is. Now, if you are at the breakfast bar in your hotel and all they've got is little packets of instant oatmeal and some hot water, >> eat that. that's still, yes, it's um gonna spike your blood sugar a little bit sooner, but it's beats the heck out of the sausage in the in the other container.

[00:23:04]>> That's a really good conversation about the the instant oats versus the classic oldfashioned oats. Um not just in southern kitchens, but interesting conversation I had with uh Dr. Christopher Gardner, who I know is going to be joining us at the International Conference on Nutrition and Medicine this year. and and he was explaining when it comes to processed foods, especially when it comes to instant oatmeal, as long as it's not laden with sugar and all kinds of other additives, just plain instant oatmeal, that's still your friend because at the end of the day, really all you have there is the oat itself, >> even if it has a little bit of sugar in it. I know that sugar is our big whipping boy. We're going to blame it for that. But but but but if if a person turns away from that and instead has butter on something or animal fat, that is got more than double the calories in every gram. That's what gets into your cells and causes the the fatty liver to to wreak havoc. So that little bit of sugar, it's really not the issue it should be.

[00:24:01]>> Ashley's wondering, is there a particular carbohydrate that's more effective than another in pulling fat out of the liver? kind of in the same way we were talking about earlier with some uh fruits and vegetables. Is there a particular carb?

[00:24:13]>> Well, the whole the the the key four groups, the fruits, the vegetables, the whole grains, the beans, all of them have complex carbs in them. And the ones like like the the the beans are particularly good because it's accompanied by a beans are the fiber champion. Yeah. I mean, they've got lots of fiber. They got the low GI carbohydrates. So, I would give them a little bit of love, but all the whole group is perfectly fine. Where you run into trouble is with the addition of animal products or added oils. And for for a lot of people who are new to a plant-based diet, they're thinking, you know, I >> can't I cook with oil every now and then, you know, once in a while, you can, but that oil is going to go straight to your liver and into your muscle cells, and they're going to be h happy to take it up. And it's like a ratchet system. The oil gets into the cell, and it does not want to come out very quickly. Now, the funny thing too, though, is I find that as people cook less and less with oil, when they do reintroduce it to their plate for the night, they kind of don't like it because at that point there's that's almost all they can taste.

[00:25:18]>> It's a 21-day adaptation. Yeah.

[00:25:21]>> Um, if you have gone pretty much oil free, >> after about 21 days, your taste buds have said, "Okay, >> yeah, >> I like where we're now." And then you go to your same old restaurant and they feed you this meal and it's really a problem. And where it becomes especially sickening is the next day you go into the fridge and you you look at your doggy bag and look at the how much fat was actually in that food you had last night. It's an embarrassment. And you can you can your your taste buds are going to appreciate this lesson. Yeah.

[00:25:52]So they become very attuned to fat. And think of it this way. Your taste buds are there to defend your liver.

[00:25:58]>> Yeah.

[00:25:58]>> And to defend the rest of you. So, if your taste buds say, "I just love oil. I just love cholesterol." You're just letting your defenses down and letting anything assault your body. If your taste buds say, "Wait a minute. I'm the entry point to this body and I do not like that oil anymore. I've learned that it doesn't love me back." That's you want your taste buds to work for you.

[00:26:20]>> I never really thought of the taste buds being a defense mechanism like that. But you're absolutely right. kind of in the same way that our eyes, our vision is drawn to brightly colored fruits and vegetables, which is, you know, why you walk into a grocery store, boom, what's there first, you know, the brightly colored fruits and vegetables. It's like the body naturally knows what's good for it, you know, and then you kind of, you get, you know, kind of used to that instead. But yeah, it's amazing the way that we have these natural defense mechanisms just kind of built in to us.

[00:26:52]within the eyes are photo receptors that allow us to see the full range of visible light and that it that's an important way that your body recognizes anthocyanin rich foods and antioxidant rich foods. Um, can you imagine if you couldn't spot the beta carotene or the lycopene or the anthocyanins? You don't have to know those names, but since time immemorial, your retina has said that is what I am attracted to and that's what I want to eat >> because it's orange, because it's red, because it's green, because whatever.

[00:27:20]Um, so in the same way as your retina has the ability to recognize them um and to say, well, gray. No, no, I don't want gray. There's there's no antioxidants in gray, anything. Um, but the colors you're attracted to, your tongue, you can test taste sweet, you can taste salty, and the sweet says, "Okay, this could be nourishing. It's got natural sugars that will give me energy. This could be salty. Your body does need some sodium." Um, but it also has bitter and sour that could say, "I think this has gone bad.

[00:27:53]>> I think this is fermenting in a way that's not going to help me." So, your tongue is there. There's a reason it's parked at the entryway.

[00:28:00]>> Yeah. life.

[00:28:01]>> You said 21 days uh for a person's taste buds to change, but if we're talking, you know, just in terms of time, how quickly might somebody be able to begin to reverse some of the fat that's been built up in their liver?

[00:28:15]>> Starts on day one.

[00:28:16]>> Really?

[00:28:17]>> It starts on day one. And and the and the reverse happens, too. You've heard me talk about Michael Rhoden's experiments where uh they would give people one fatty meal and you could show the person becomes insulin resistant within hours, not days but hours. And the reason is the fat goes into the cell that fast. Um and they and it starts to interfere with mitochondrial function. When you stop eating it, your body starts dealing with it. Um and so the fat starts to dissipate.

[00:28:45]>> Wow.

[00:28:46]>> Day one.

[00:28:47]>> Day one. Yeah.

[00:28:48]>> Love that.

[00:28:48]>> Yeah. Now, you're not going to pull out 30% of your liver fat on day one, but um in the two big studies that where we have looked at this, uh you can knock out about a third of the liver fat in 16 weeks and and it goes from there.

[00:29:00]>> Yeah. But think about this, right? For somebody who and odds are if you have fatty liver, like if you're trying to lose weight, that end goal, that goal weight is going to be way down the road, right? But there's going to be a lot of comfort in the person who has such this long journey to know that on day one changes are already happening internally. Even if you're not seeing numbers change yet on the scale, even if you're not seeing your face thin out or anything like that, just to know inside of you that your body's already beginning the repair process, that is very comforting and motivating to keep going.

[00:29:30]>> It is. And I always encourage people to really let it happen and to this is going to sound a little bit strict and Calvinist and everything else, but I think it's important for people to stick with it because if you say, "Well, it's Friday night, you know, why why don't I loosen it up a little or it's my birthday or I was at your house and you offered me this thing I didn't want to say no." It's good to find a way to say no because when >> when two things happen. If you say, "All right, just this once. I'm have this really fatty goo. Your cells will pull it in. They don't know what else to do with it. Your taste bud says, "Wait a minute. You let this go in and then the cells say, well, I got to just suck it in." And then it's slow. So, you're you're resetting the clock. It's got to take more time to come out. The other thing >> is it told your taste buds, "Wait a minute. This is okay." Yeah. Your your your taste buds can start to think this is all right. You can 21 days can set your taste buds in the wrong direction.

[00:30:26]Mhm.

[00:30:27]>> So, so it's good to just stick with it and don't rekindle the memory for unhealthy foods.

[00:30:33]>> All right. Uh, grab a few more here before we wrap things up. Stephanie, coffee. Ah, here we go. Coffee often comes up in liver health discussions.

[00:30:42]Uh, what does the research actually say in terms of the connection between a good old cup of Joe and your liver?

[00:30:49]>> Okay. Well, I have to say that if there's ever a commercial product, especially one that is addictive, that is being subjected to scientific study, you have to be wary about positive findings.

[00:31:03]People want to love chocolate. They want to love coffee. They want to say good things about it as they do. And they're looking for that headline.

[00:31:11]>> Doctor, doctor, give me the news and make it good.

[00:31:13]>> And the journal editor is thinking the same thing. They say, I'll publish this if it's something I really like. And okay, so what does the science say? The science says that coffee does seem to help. Now >> we can stop there. Thanks for watching everybody.

[00:31:27]>> Okay, but uh all right, so end of story.

[00:31:30]Coffee seems to be okay. Um a person who has two or three cups of coffee per day has less risk of falling into fatty liver than somebody who doesn't. That raises the question of why. I do think it could be partly caffeine, but I suspect that it's the black bean thing.

[00:31:47]And where does coffee come from? It comes from >> a bean.

[00:31:50]>> A bean. And it's not a little white, you know, bean. It's a darkly colored anthocyaninrich polyphenol rich bean.

[00:31:58]And you're taking >> uh the the the product that delivers those to you. So coffee has a lot of effects and one of them does seem to be to reduce the risk of fatty liver.

[00:32:07]higher anthocyanin content than somebody might realize when it comes to coffee because I mean obviously when the bean gets roasted it you know darkens but initially when it's it's being grown you know it's vibrant colors greens reds you know it it it really does not resemble at all the coffee that you see uh you know in in your bag of grounds that you have in your cabinet >> right right but no it's it's loaded with polyphenols and so forth um we see this with lots of foods that we don't think think about we we'll brag about strawberries and blueberries, but we kind of forget coffee or cacao or or the others. And they're trying to make their way through life on the vine, too. And uh that means that nature has given them anthocyanins to protect the coffee, the little coffee cherry that has the coffee inside, coffee bean inside. Same with the cacao and and others. So So if you consume those foods, you're going to get their protectors. The problem is we ruin them. You you could go to I mean you can go to Starbucks and you say give me a latte and what they're giving you is half coffee and half poison.

[00:33:09]>> Yeah. There's I mean you want to we were talking earlier about like oil and getting that out of the system and how you know after 21 days it's like all you can taste. It's the same thing if you put any sort of whipped cream even if it's non-dairy. It's It's just like you take that sip of it and maybe you taste a little bit of coffee, but all I feel is like this oil sheen with sugar in my mouth and like just give me the black cup of coffee. That's really all I want.

[00:33:34]You know, we have a wonderful talent for screwing up a good cup of coffee. We really do.

[00:33:41]>> We do. And and and you know, the the the frailty of the human brain is that it's subjected to all kinds of addictions.

[00:33:48]Now, caffeine is a clear-cut addictive thing. I mean, you go through withdrawal if you don't have it, but there are lots of other things that add to it. And addictions often come in pairs where it was the caffeine that I wanted, but the sugar and fat combination that came with it in my latte >> is addictive, too. And they work together in the same way as an alcoholic need, a person with an alcohol problem, they wouldn't need alcohol, >> but they want it in a certain way. Oh, yeah. Um, so they're getting it. You know, they don't just want pure ethyl alcohol. And my point is that the addictions come in groups and it's harder to break away from.

[00:34:22]>> All right. Uh, are there any herbs and spices? This one is from Megan. Are there any herbs or spices that may support liver function?

[00:34:30]>> There are a lot of them that people talk about. Um, when you put them to the test, um, I don't think they measure up to what food can do. I'll give you an example. Turmeric is something that people talk about a lot >> because it's an anti-inflammatory and it really is. And if you put a little turmeric in your chili, I mean that's good.

[00:34:50]>> But people will take turmeric capsules and have a good vigorous amount of them and it can be a liver toxin.

[00:34:59]>> Too much of a good thing.

[00:35:00]>> Yeah, it can be. Milk thistle is one that people um talk about a lot probably more than any other. Um it's a it's a thistle. It grows around the Mediterranean. Um and it has been used to for fatty liver. Um from my read the scientists got a plus minus.

[00:35:18]>> And final question sir from Daniel. If you had to build a single just one liver recovery meal what sir would be on your plate.

[00:35:29]>> Okay. Um waiter I'm going to ask for a spinach salad for starts. Starters green leafy vegetable. Good man. Um, how about some lentil soup or a chickpea curry?

[00:35:40]Because what am I what I'm doing with that is I'm going into the bean group and the lentil is the bean's first cousin. Um, so I would have something with lentils, something with chickpeas or something like that. I would not add fat to them.

[00:35:53]>> There are a lot of people who just can't make a soup without the fat back in it.

[00:35:56]Leave it out. Um, and if you consume those kinds of foods on a daily basis, your liver is going to thank you.

[00:36:03]>> Yes. All right. lowhanging fruit. As we uh wrap up here, I want to go back revisit hummus. You were talking about your guy in New York telling you that hummus was a good idea for breakfast.

[00:36:14]Hummus obviously coming from a bean and a chickpea. Over in the UK, England, they don't they put like beans on toast.

[00:36:22]Isn't that a proper meal over there for breakfast? Like are we just the only country that doesn't do beans for breakfast?

[00:36:28]>> Um you can get them in London and anywhere in in England. any hotel breakfast bar, they all have baked beans here and they have toast, they have mushrooms, they have have tomatoes, and you can have a a a good plant-based breakfast. And yes, beans are a big part of it. Australia, same story.

[00:36:46]>> Uh, and we in America, for some reason, we've let the bean get forgotten a little bit.

[00:36:51]>> Let's bring back the bean for breakfast.

[00:36:52]Huh? Let's do it. That's very illiterative. That's a lot of beans.

[00:36:55]Bring back beans for breakfast. I like that. Let me say a word of thanks to our Mexican friends who have shown us that the black bean deserves as much respect as any other. And the black bean can be served whole or it could be pureed in the same way as you would have think of reffried beans, but it's just boiled.

[00:37:11]Boil, in fact, try this at home. Black beans cost pennies. Get a pack of them, boil them up, or you could put them in your uh pressure cooker if you if you want to or just boil them and then put in your little Robo or your little immersion >> Yes, sir. um little blender thing.

[00:37:28]>> Blend them up and put them on toast.

[00:37:31]>> A little salsa, couple of jalapenos, wake yourself up in the morning, you got a good breakfast.

[00:37:36]>> Let's go. See, that's not a bad idea.

[00:37:38]And roughly the same consistency as the black bean hummus. I'm telling you, just give it a try. Just give it a try. I want to I want to say also as we wind down here, a huge thank you to our friends at the Gregory J. Writer Memorial Fund. I would imagine Allison Mahoney does not let many meals slide without having it be on her plate, you know.

[00:37:56]>> Sure.

[00:37:56]>> Yeah. And uh the Gregory J. Ryder Memorial Fund, if you're not familiar with them, uh they promote vegan living to create a kinder, healthier world for uh animals and people. And you can visit them online right now at gregoryfund.org. That's Gregory Writer spelled reifund.org.

[00:38:13]Sign up for the newsletter. Tell them that the exam room sent you. And uh yeah, maybe order a bean breakfast while you're at the website, too. I don't know if they're taking orders these days, but I love what Allison and the gang do over there.

[00:38:23]>> Well, let me add my word of thank you.

[00:38:24]Um Allison Mahoney and everybody at the Greg Ryder Foundation have done such a marvelous job of promoting compassion and good health and very grateful.

[00:38:34]>> Absolutely. And listen, if you're still searching for more resource resources as well for your health, hop on uh pcrm.org and click on health topics right at the top. You'll see a drop-own list of everything uh that we have to offer. the research that uh we're up on here uh can really get you pointed in a much healthier direction. Dr. Neil Barard, appreciate your time, my friend.