Inside the Blake Lively & Taylor Swift Texts: The Psychology of "Fake" Friendship

Añadido: 2026-05-13

[00:00:00]You're not meant to reward bullies by reacting to being bullied. You're meant to, Classically, the phrase used in psychology and psychiatry is turn into a piece of furniture. I think the psychological research is pretty clear that women care more about relationships and are slightly more anxious about relationships. In particular, anxious about not being liked or being disliked.

[00:00:22]I'm also going to be um reading out um a couple of text messages between Taylor Swift and Blake Lively which I think illustrate another really interesting psychological issue which is about the nature of friendship.

[00:00:36]Hello and welcome. My name is Dr. Raj Bassour. I'm a consultant doctor and psychiatrist based in private practice in Harley Street in London in the United Kingdom. I want to talk a little bit today about the Blake Lively Justin Baldoni affair. Apparently, this long-unning legal dispute between these two waring parties has finally ended.

[00:01:00]However, there's a longunning back and forth between the two of them over various matters. It's a very complicated situation. The internet, social media, and mainstream legacy media have gone mad for it.

[00:01:15]um it's too complicated for me to go into all the various ins and outs. I want to focus on two aspects because I think there's some really interesting psychological lessons to be drawn and I want to uh demonstrate a particular tip I like to give my patients over when dealing with bullying in the workplace or any kind of bullying but particular emotional bullying. It is not unknown for many of us to be the victim of this kind of emotional bullying that we see in one example of this affair uh this fight between Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni.

[00:01:53]I'm also going to be um reading out um a couple of text messages between Taylor Swift and Blake Lively which I think illustrate another really interesting psychological issue which is about the nature of friendship. the psychology of friendship, maybe female friendship in particular, and in particular the difficulty people have um in being honest with each other and maybe there's a particular problem in Hollywood amongst Hollywood stars, al-ist celebrities with the notion of being honest with each other and what what does that mean? And what does it mean for us to be honest with each other, particularly friends, over times when friends upset us, which is inevitable.

[00:02:37]It is inevitable sooner or later. Um, no matter how close to friendship, a friend will upset you. How to handle it? It clearly is the case from a couple of text messages we're going to read out between Blake Lively and Taylor Swift.

[00:02:50]they're meant to be the best of friends that they have problems negotiating the issues of brutal honesty in friendship.

[00:02:59]So, we're going to be drawing out some psychological lessons, which as you know, if you're a regular viewer, is something I like to do from world affairs which have caught the national headlines because it gives us a good example of actual behavior um that we've all seen in the news headlines and we can draw some psychological lessons that may assist you in your everyday life.

[00:03:21]Before we get into it, just a couple of things to explain my uh appearance. I have been playing tennis and I will be going to play golf later. Um as as many of you know um my wife is convinced I have actually retired and uh admitted to tell her given all the activities I get up to uh rather than being at work.

[00:03:42]Another example of course is this picture I've put up here which is a picture that I drew with um uh crayon I think it's called. Um I'm going to a life drawing um course at the Royal Academy of Art in Piccadilly here in London. Um I have been um known to go to a life drawing uh course at the reform club which I'm a member of in Piccadilly. Um life drawing for those of you who don't know is a form of of drawing or art where you um draw or paint a nude. It's someone naked, male or female. It's called life drawing. Um, and so, um, when I show my wife, having been to a life drawing class at the reform club on a Thursday morning, when I show my wife on Thursday evening pictures of naked women that I've spent the day drawing, she looks at them, frowns, and then says, um, shouldn't you be at work? And I have to explain, this is my work. I'm clearly a genius about to be discovered. You can retire. You don't have to worry about working anymore. Anyway, so when I show uh my wife pictures of naked women that I've drawn that day, she often does say um um you know, shouldn't you be at work? She is convinced I have retired and not told her given all the different things I get up to. But can I just defend myself by saying I do actually recommend to my patients that part of therapy or part of getting better and part of mental health is to do something creative. And I do feel it's a great failure of art education at schools that people when I tell them why don't you go to a class of some kind and take up a bit of art, do a bit of drawing, they always go I can't draw. Um and they don't understand that um with the advent of photography um painting a picture of a chair or drawing a picture of a chair doesn't mean that the drawing has to look anything like a chair. Just relax about that um and just express yourself. As you can see, uh, many of my pictures of people don't look anything like an actual person. Anyway, um, right. So, um, Blake Lively, Justin Baldoni. Part of the mix of the toxic stuff that happened between them is a now infamous video of an interview um where Kirsty FL I'm not pronouncing that correctly um a uh journalist a Norwegian journalist um was interviewing she's an entertainment um and and sort of Hollywood reporter was interviewing Blake Lively and her co-star in a Woody Allen film Cafe Society Parker Posie was uh female co-star. So um this video has become notorious as part of the battle between Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni.

[00:06:24]I think and you guys are going to get this better than me. I found the whole story very confusing. Uh Blake Lively at one point thought that the video interview between her um Parker Posey and Kirsty Flaw um was part of a a conspiracy or plot by Justin Baldon's side to discredit and bismerch her reputation. So the interview uh has become notorious as an example of Blake Lively and maybe a little bit of Parker Posie being really horrible uh to Kirsty Flaw. Now, I'm going to say something immediately a bit controversial here. I think that many women watching the video recognize immediately some quite nasty aspects of what could be described as not an uncommon phenomenon amongst women. I'm going to get into trouble and being accused of being sexist here, but there are some gender differences that are interesting to explore over bullying. Um, women, I'm going to argue, tend to recognize and understand a kind of emotional bullying that occurs between women much more than it occurs between men. So famous is this as a gender difference. There's a whole genre or subgenre of Hollywood movies which is kind of like the mean girl stereotype type of film. And in this kind of film, particularly set in high schools, uh usually groups of girls will gang up uh on another girl and bully her and they will bully her and the emotional bullying often takes the form of a kind of exclusion or taunting. This exclusion and taunting aspects of bullying occurs in this video where it does look on many occasions that Parker Posey and Blake Lively are excluding actively um in a very rude way Kirsty Flaw from the conversation which is a bit odd given the interview is meant to be between Kirsty Flaw, Blake Lively and Parker Posie.

[00:08:19]My reason for emphasizing this notion of feminine bullying, exclusion and um taunting um which tends to occur between women and I think women recognize this as a particularly feminine thing doesn't tend to occur between men. And um one of the reasons for this is generally speaking I think the psychological research is pretty clear that women care more about relationships and are slightly more anxious about relationships. in particular anxious about not being liked or being disliked.

[00:08:52]And um this tends to mean that um what you see in this interview is not an uncommon feminine experience of people worrying, am I being excluded on purpose? Um is it that these people don't like me? I think that if three men were in a conversation um not dissimilar to this um I going to argue that the man wouldn't feel excluded if the other two guys just started talking to each other a bit as occurs in this interview. He would just think um something a bit more benign and therefore this sensitivity that women have to not being liked me makes them more vulnerable um to emotional bullying. And we're going to unpack that a little bit um in this video.

[00:09:38]It it tends to make women less powerful.

[00:09:41]I'm going to argue in human relationships. Now, I'm going to give a big tip later on towards the end about how to handle bullying, particularly bullying of this kind. Um so, in the interview, Kirsty FL is a journalist.

[00:09:54]She's interviewing Parker Posey and Blake Lively, both co-stars, actresses, and are recently released to Woody Allen Film Cafe Society. That's an important point to make. In fact, the film is quite old now. And this video is quite old. I think the film was released in 2016. So, the video must have been made around that time. But it kind of went viral much more recently after the fight broke out between Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni in which this video became one of the key bits of evidence and the argument between um the two sides.

[00:10:28]So in the video um Kirsty FL is interviewing Parkosie and Blake Lively about the film Cafe Society. So um Kirsty Flower begins with a conventional conversational opening. She says to Blake Lively, "Congratulations on your little bump. Um Blake Lively is is clearly or obviously or is known to be pregnant." Um Blake Lively responds in what many people regard as a catty or way because Kirsty Flaw is not pregnant and it turns out subsequently she's apparently it's on the internet had problems with infertility. So this is a double-edged nasty intervention by Blake Lively in response to the Kirsty FL compliment. Congratulations on your on your little bump. Uh I congratulations on you being pregnant.

[00:11:16]Blake Lively responds with um I'm paraphrasing, "Congratulations on your little bump or your bump." Um I'm paraphrasing. So um Kirsty Flaw doesn't have a bump or isn't pregnant. So this is a very remark to to basically suggest that Kirst is fat or there's something wrong with her appearance. Um uh now Kirsty Flaw does the classic thing that many people do in this situation. Caught slightly off guard. Um freezes a bit um and um uh definitely looks unhappy or looks pained. Um she sort of smiles through the interaction. Parkosie, I think in a very interesting psychological intervention here, which we often see amongst women, realizes maybe at some unconscious level that Blake Lively has been a bit rude and put Kirsty Thor in a slightly uncomfortable situation or quite uncomfortable situation and intervenes and says, "Look at my bump."

[00:12:17]Referring to her bottom, okay, which is quite a clever uh attempt to diffuse and and distract. um which by the way is a good technique if you're a third party observing bullying occurring between um two people.

[00:12:31]Um so this is a curious thing. Why why would Blake Lively respond in such a bitchier catchway? Maybe she's exhausted. Maybe she's done a whole series of interviews. Maybe she's a bit ratty and tired of people congratulating uh on her bump. But there is really no need at the beginning of this interview to be quite so aggressive uh back. Um anyway um so the next thing that happens is um Parker Posie tries to change the subject says to uh Kirsty FL did you like the movie? Are you a Woody Allen fan? We get a slight sense of the psychology of Hollywood here. Why not ask a more neutral question given the movie has just been released which is what did you think of the film? the um did you like the movie? Are you a Woody Allian fan? Is about an idea that in Hollywood um between reporters and actors and actresses because of all this narcissism everyone must be a fan of everything all the time and gush on about it.

[00:13:29]So um uh Kirsty Fl says the film was visually amazing. I'm paraphrasing again. It was visually gorgeous. Uh did you guys love wearing those clothes? Um, so again, Plate Lively goes a very unusual route.

[00:13:44]It's a pretty innocent question from Kirsty Fl. She says, "Um, everyone wants to talk about the clothes, but I wonder if they were asking men if they would talk about the clothes." Um, so remarked back, which is saying, "You're being sexist asking us about the clothes." And then she and Parkosie go off on a tangent and talk to each other completely excluding the journalists uh discussing men's clothes in the film. Um and and uh Blake Lively goes into a particularly vacuous uh conversational gambit of discussing the fact that people wear different colored clothes in Los Angeles compared to New York. And again, is there a passive aggressive thing going on here which is I understand that Kirst is trying to interview us about the film. we're just going to give a vacuous nonsense about anything but the film as a way of filling the time, wasting her time. And it's a passive aggressive, that's a term we would use in psychology, attempt to um not give her what she wants. So um again, not very helpful. Um another very interesting thing that happens in the interview where the vacuousness um as uh betrayed by Blake Lively apparently um gets even worse. Um, uh, Kirsty Flaw asks not an unintelligent question, which is, "What's the biggest misconception people have about fame and Hollywood?" And then Blake Lively says, "Well, basically it's the fact that people think they know you, but they don't really know you." But really, famous people when you meet them, um, are actually even more wonderful than what you think. So, there's a lot going on here in terms of a psychological put down, which is, um, Blake Larry is going, "Listen, I hang out with really famous people. you ordinary people don't. Let me give you the inside scoop.

[00:15:27]When you get to know them, they're really even more marvelous than what you think they are. So, there's a kind of put down um subtext uh going on there.

[00:15:37]Um um so there's a lot of emotional bullying going on in this interview and a lot of people have been very upset on it behalf of Kirsty FL. I got to say that um the interview is not great, but most men watching it are probably thinking I don't understand what all the fuss is about. I agree that Kirsty Fl's not being treated very well by these two uh gossipy, slightly women um slightly vacuous women. But um so what what's the big deal? But women, I think, are more affected by the interview and kind of stick up for Kirsty Floor because they recognize something from their own lives, which is their own experience of emotional bullying of this kind where a group of girls get together and quite openly exclude another woman.

[00:16:27]And this often happens in high school.

[00:16:29]So women are much more clicky than men, I think. Um, and they also worry a lot more about being popular, about being inside the clique, outside the clique.

[00:16:38]And again, this whole subg genre of Hollywood movies about the queen bee, um, which in this case would be Blake Lively, who kind of like runs the show and determines who's in and who's out.

[00:16:50]And a lot of other women are scared of getting on the wrong side of the queen bee. So, you see in this interview a a play out of a lot of power dynamics occur between women friends. So, two bits of bullying. We see the attempt to obviously exclude exclude in a very rude and obvious way something and the kind of taunting the taunting about the bump thing for example. Right? So this is not uncommon. It's a good video to discuss because it's not uncommon situation.

[00:17:18]What should you do when confronted uh with this kind of bullying? So Kirsty Flaw does one of the options which is to look indifferent to it. She doesn't do a great job of looking indifferent. She actually looks a bit upset but goes a bit quiet uh and looks a bit defensive about the whole thing. You're not meant to reward bullies by reacting to being bullied.

[00:17:43]You're meant to classically the phrase used in psychology and psychiatry is turn into a piece of furniture, go immobile in terms of facial expression.

[00:17:52]The theory being you can't bully a piece of furniture. You can't bully a chair because um the chair is indifferent to being bullied and you would give up bullying after a while. So freeze up, be indifferent, go poker face, um look not bothered.

[00:18:11]It's okay as a strategy. I don't mind that. But I'm afraid my general philosophy in life when patients come to see me looking for assistance with problems like being bullied at work or at school or whatever is I help my patients get out of bed in the morning and wage war because life is a war in my opinion. And I think psychiatry and psychology tends to encourage too much passivity in the face of aggressive bullying or all the other face of problems. So my general philosophy has been we're going to get out of bed in the morning and wage war. we will fight back. So there's two strategies here that I'd like to encourage you to think about trying. So let's use the example in the interview. So Blake Lively in response to Kirsty's flaw polite um compliment, congratulations on your bump. Uh Blake Lively goes congrat congratulations on your bump to Kirsty Flaw.

[00:19:05]So the first strategy I'm going to advocate that Kirsty could have done is what we call operation sudden deafness.

[00:19:12]Uh, in operation sudden deafness, what you do is you go, "Sorry, I didn't quite catch that. What did you say?" So, you basically are acting out in a performative way being suddenly deaf.

[00:19:23]Okay? And you're making the other person repeat the comment. So, uh, you go, "Sorry, I didn't quite catch that." And Blake Lively would go, "Congratulations on your bump." And then you would say, "Sorry, still not getting it. Sorry about this. I just went swimming and I think there's water in my ear." Say that again. Sorry. And Blake Lively would repeat the point. And by this point, having repeated it four or five times, you could go, "Oh, there's background noise. I'm really sorry. I'm not I'm not hearing what you're saying." By the fifth or sixth time, Blake Lively does the bump thing, she's going to lose the will to live and go, "Look, let's um move on or she will change the subject."

[00:19:56]Okay. The power of this move, Operation Sudden Deafness, in making the other person repeat what they thought was a costic, nasty remark, is a couple of things. You're leaning into the bullying, right? You're going, "It really has no effect on me. In fact, I'm going to get you to repeat it again and again and again." By the fifth or sixth time someone's tried to repeat something, I can assure you, not only has it lost its sting, you have demonstrated you don't give a damn about whatever they're saying. So much so, you're making them repeat it again and again and again. By the fifth or sixth time, they are starting to beg you not to carry on with this. Blake Live be going, "Okay, let's talk about the film now." And you'll be, "No, no, no, no.

[00:20:38]I'm I really think what you're saying is really important. What What was it again? Try and so um you're obviously messing with them and I'm sure they will detect that. But the leaning into it, making them repeat it again and again sends several messages. One is I'm completely comfortable with whatever you want to say. And by the fifth or sixth time, it begins to look stupid that Blake Lively will regret ever mentioning that bump thing if she's had to repeat it five or six times.

[00:21:06]Okay, that is operation sudden deafness.

[00:21:09]Okay. Um, and even when I mean you can really lean into this in a big way. They go, "Look, I don't really don't think you you you you suddenly become deaf all of a sudden." Well, I don't I think you're pretending. You can go, "Sorry, didn't catch that. Sorry." Um, so you can have an enormous amount of fun with this one. Okay. Then there's Operation Sudden Stupidity. Okay. Um, Operation Sudden Stupidity is this Blake Lively goes, "Congratulations on your bump."

[00:21:33]And you go, "Sorry, I'm sorry. I don't I don't understand that and what I don't get it. Sorry. Explain it to me. Now again with operation sudden stupidity the other person's going to give up and lose the will to live if they have to.

[00:21:47]Explain what they were getting at with the bump. Okay. Let's say Blake live goes, "Well, I just thought you might be carrying a bit of extra weight." And then you go, "Sorry, still still don't understand. I'm really finding it difficult for I'm sorry. I am so stupid sometimes." Right? you really lean into, you're a complete idiot and they're going to have to explain it again and again. And I assure you eventually the benefit of operation deafness and operation stupidity is they are begging you. They will be begging you to change the subject. Okay? So you see how you reversed the power dynamic. They brought something up. You now five minutes later have created the conditions where they are trying to flee the scene of the battle. So, you have won. Um, some of these techniques that I I work with with my patients, they find so powerful that they start to roam the streets looking for bullies. They can mess with them.

[00:22:41]Okay, that's how powerful some of these techniques are, which is why I'm a big fan of them as opposed to the slightly more passive things that um psychotherapists tend to advocate. Okay, now I'm going to read out some text messages between Blake Lively and um Taylor Swift. Um they're dated the 12th of April um 2024 or if that's I think that's right. That could be American dating, which case it's the 4th of December 2024. Sorry. Um anyway, um so um one of the famous things that happened is that Taylor Swift and Blake Lively are meant to be best friends.

[00:23:19]Bate Livey wasn't happy about the script um that Baldini, Justin Baldini had um presented to her and um she asked Taylor Swift to show up and um Justin Bald and um compliment the version of the script that um Blake Lively um wanted to go with and persuade Justin Baldoni to abandon the script that he wanted to go with. This was a very weird strategy.

[00:23:48]Um, again, you can clearly see the psychology of celebrities in Hollywood, which is the famous Taylor Swift will come in and endorse my version of the script and therefore you will be influenced because it's Taylor Swift. I mean, why not get a script consultant in or a script expert or an eminent script writer to come in and persuade uh Justin? Instead, it's all about who's more famous is the the clearly the currency. Um um the fact that Taylor Swift would agree to do this is also quite telling about Taylor Swift, but we won't get into trying to annoy all the Taylor Swift fans. Okay, so Blake um Lively sends this email um and and what's really interesting about these messages is they're about c they're dancing around the central issue about honesty in friendship, which I think is a really interesting question.

[00:24:43]People tend to emphasize romantic relationships and they emphasize family relationships and friendships get neglected. Friendships are very important things in terms of people's mental health and well-being. How to maintain a friendship is a is an art that I think is neglected um in life. So um these messages between these two best of friends are helpful in trying to see a couple of issues which is um how to be honest and how to be honest when a friend lets you down. It is inevitable that friends will let you down from time to time. You'll be hurt and upset um how do you deal with that and how do you try to get the friendship back on track. So this is um uh Blake Lively sending a message to Taylor Swift. Hey, just checking in. I have no reason to ask, but I don't know. I've been feeling like I should. Dot dot dot. Is everything okay? I feel like a bad I felt like a bad friend lately because I was such a sad sack who only talked about my own for months. You were generous. Um, not only to be the key person there for me during all of it, but also to let me off the hook for being so in it, but I still have a feeling something may not be right. I told Ryan, I think Ryan is her husband. He said to just ask you, but I felt so stupid and like it sounded needy and awkward um for everyone, especially because I can't explain why I have this feeling.

[00:26:13]And you know, I have toxic masculinity, so I can't be needy. There's a kind of like laughing emoji there. But also, I do want to know everything is good, so I'm asking. I always want the opportunity to be a better friend. if there's something I unintentionally did.

[00:26:27]I know how busy and taxed you are physically, emotionally, practically.

[00:26:30]So, I don't expect any more from you ever. Just want to make sure all is good. So, we'll get to Taylor Swift's response in a minute, but I got to analyze this a little bit because it's just so fascinating um about what's going on between the lines here. Okay.

[00:26:44]So, hey, just checking in. No, lady, you're not just checking in. There's a lot of stuff coming down the railroad track in the rest of this message. So you are not just checking in. Okay. So the very fat you start off with, hey just checking in. This is like you know um just a a casual message whereas it then descends very quickly into something quite deep. She's dancing around it. So she begins by dancing around. Hey just checking in. A better start would be look I'm really sorry but we need to discuss something really quite important to me. Okay that's very different to hey just checking in. I have no reason to ask, but I don't know.

[00:27:23]I've been feeling like I should. This is a very confusing stuff. Again, it's a dance. It's like dipping your toe in, dipping your toe out. Like it's too scared and and all sorts of things going on rather than confront the thing. I am worried that you don't like me anymore.

[00:27:37]Okay. And goes, I have no reason to ask, but I don't know. I've been feeling like I should.

[00:27:44]Is everything okay?

[00:27:46]I felt like a bad friend lately because I was such a sad sack. Don't say I felt like I've been a bad friend. Say, I think I've been a bad friend or I've been a bad friend. I'm really sorry. I can be a bit of an idiot. Own the negativity. Don't dance around it.

[00:28:02]Again, problem with narcissists is they find it very difficult to confront the idea they might be flawed in some sense.

[00:28:09]And so, you know, maybe I've been a bad friend, maybe I haven't. I don't know. I don't know what's going on. Can't be me, can it? Maybe it's you. There's too much dancing around rather than going straight for brutal honesty. Um, I was such a sad sack you only talked about my own for months. Well, if you only talked about your own for months, you were not just a sad sack. You were like pretty terrible friend. You were generous not only to be the key person there for me during all of it, but also to let me off the hook for being so in it.

[00:28:40]Um, yeah. So, I was a real pain in the ass.

[00:28:44]and you've hung in there listening to it again and again and again is what she's basically saying. But I still have a feeling something may not be right. I have a feeling something may not be right. Stop dancing around it and just go straight to I think I've been terrible as a friend. I have been terrible as a friend. I went on and on about my own stuff. I didn't listen to you. I'm terrible. I'm going to make a change. Apologies. How did you feel about it? This this kind of dancing around is an attempt to look like you are being honest and you're entertaining honesty, but you're backing away from honesty. How can you have friendship if there isn't at the very least from time to time a bit of brutal honesty? Great friendships survive brutal honesty. They grow from it, not not destroyed by it.

[00:29:32]The very fact they're dancing around brutal honesty shows how fragile the friendship is. Remember with Hollywood celebrities and high netw worth people I meet, very ambitious people, all friendships are basically a means to an end. How can you advance my career? If you can't advance my career, I'm not going to waste my time hanging out with you just because you're a friend. You have to be a friend with benefits in the sense of someone who's going to help me get to where I want to be.

[00:30:02]Okay. So, um, I told Ryan, he said to just ask you, u, but I felt so stupid and like it sounded needy and awkward for everyone, especially because I can't explain why I have this feeling. I can't explain why I have this feeling. Really, you can't explain why you have the feeling. Uh, I think you something's happened. You know full well what it is, but you don't want to name it. Okay.

[00:30:24]Again, this dancing around doesn't really help friendship in terms of confronting something. There's a kind of like approaching it, backing away, approaching it, backing away. And you know, I have toxic masculinity, so I can't be needy. But also, I do want to know everything is good, so I'm asking.

[00:30:43]I do want to know everything is good, so I'm asking. What about saying the opposite of that? I think that everything is not good. And if it's not good, let's discuss it and see how we can improve it. Pro improve it. I do want to know everything is good. It's very much like the interview thing. Um, did you like the film? Um, are you a fan of Woody Allen? We always have to stay positive.

[00:31:07]Honesty is about entertaining the possibility of the negative.

[00:31:12]Um, I always want the opportunity to be a better friend if there's something I unintentionally did. I always want the opportunity to be if there's something I unintentionally did. Listen, I probably did something really bad. I didn't do it on purpose. Okay? Again, like an attempt to defend against the bad thing. I know how busy and taxed you are physically, emotionally, practically, so I don't expect any more from you ever. Wow. Wow.

[00:31:37]What are you really saying here to your best friend Taylor Swift? I know how busy and taxed you are physically, emotionally, practically, so I don't expect any more from you ever. Wow. What you're saying is, listen, you're like a really distant person. You're really busy all the time. You're not very good friend. I don't expect you to be a good friend. Wow.

[00:31:56]Okay. Again, that's two ambitious people saying to each other, "Listen, I understand. I understand you're ambitious. You got stuff to do. I'm going to come second. I get it." Same applies to me. Okay? When it comes to you, just want to make sure all is good is how she ends with three heart emojis.

[00:32:12]Okay? Taylor Swift responding.

[00:32:15]No, you're not wrong, but it's also not a big deal. You see, again, this dance.

[00:32:20]Move towards the negativity. Move away from the negativity. No, you're not wrong. Yeah, something's wrong.

[00:32:26]Definitely, but it's also not a big deal. Don't take it away. Just go straight to it. You've hurt me and it is important and I'm upset would be a much more honest uh attempt to confront the problem. I think I'm just exhausted in every avenue of my life and in recent months have been feeling a little bit of a shift in the way you talk to me. Okay.

[00:32:49]So, again, notice the defense against saying the just the brutal truth. I think I'm just exhausted. You know, it's not you, it's me. Uh, I'm just exhausted. That's why I now going to say something about the fact I think you've been a bit distant. But it's not you've been a bit distant. I'm just exhausted.

[00:33:03]This kind of dance around rather than just nail it and say it. I think I've just exhausted in every avenue of my life. And in recent months, I've been feeling a little bit of a shift in the way you talk to me. A little bit of a shift. Not even a bit, little bit of a shift. Why not just say, "Listen, you've been like really preoccupied with yourself and it's been hurtful." Okay.

[00:33:25]always an attempt to minimize an attempt to back away so the other we dance away from brutal truth and brutal honesty so you don't take the risk of upsetting the other person. Um yes there's been a lot of the Justin stuff but I've been through things like this before and I know how allconsuming it is. So you're excusing her for her behavior. It's more like, and I feel really bad saying anything about this because your texts have been so nice in their intent, but your last few is felt like I was reading mass corporate emails sent to children employees. Again, notice the dance. Your texts have been so nice in their intent.

[00:34:02]They're lovely. They've been nice in their intent. But then again, it was like a mass corporate email said to 200 employees. You can't have it both ways, okay? It's one or the other. Um, anyway, you said the word we like 18 times, and it feels awful to be in any way critical of any way you process what you've been going through, but I just kind of miss my funny, dark, normal speaking friend who talks to me as herself. So, it feels awful to be in any critical of any way.

[00:34:31]Yes, you can feel bad and you can say that, but you do have to say, listen, if you're going to be a better friend, this is what I need. This is why brutal honesty is sometimes helpful in friendship. If you want the person to be a better friend, you have to be clear where they've let you down and say it clearly.

[00:34:48]Um, I just kind of miss my funny, dark, normal speaking friend who talks to me as herself, not like a plural unit. When it's a it's a group I'm hearing from, I feel distally.

[00:35:01]And I know you feel attacked from all sides for ridiculous reasons. So, you're feeling like you have to overexlain things will be overly nice or whatever, but it's me. Let's just cause a little distance. Okay. Well, these are fascinating psychologically, these emails. So, I'm arguing they dance around brutal truth, suggesting they can't really cope with honesty, suggesting the friendship is a hell of a lot more fragile um than they can be honest with each other about. The question is, why is it so fragile? It's fragile because the basis of the friendship when you're dealing with celebrities is often they're primarily driven by ambition. So people are only there if they can service your ambition.

[00:35:44]That's possibly what's going on. I'm not saying it's definitely uh what's going on. The solution wet between friends is you have to be careful about brutal truth. Many people can't survive it, but you have to be able if you're upset to be honest about the fact you're upset, but also suggest a solution. I think we should meet more often and have a cup of tea together rather than just exchange messages. propose a solution, a concrete solution. Move from an evaluation or diagnosis of the problem to a solution um and um trust a bit more um how much you may mean to the other person. Um so um we're going to close there. Um, I hope that there's been some assistance to you in this conversation about first of all the nature of friendship, the importance of friendship, how to maintain a friendship, the sometimes necessity of brutal honesty, but to move to a solution. We've talked a little bit about bullying. Um, bullying is common, the kind of emotional bullying that we saw in the video. Um, maybe something more common in in female circles than male circles. Um, and we've suggested some advice and some tips about how to deal with it and how to think about it.

[00:37:09]Thank you very much indeed.