Watch: The Hui | 01 Hune 2026

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[00:00:10]Yeah.

[00:03:54]>> Woo!

[00:05:49]>> Mhm.

[00:07:11]>> Good evening. And welcome to this very special broadcast of the hui here tonight. Broadcasting live from Kokohinau marae in Te Teko, about 25 minutes north of Whakatane for the uninitiated. Well, tonight we are here on the final night Kia tau hīrīnī muku made. As you can see, we are here on the grounds of Kokohinau marae and just in the ancestral house of Lord Tūheitia is the karakia happening tonight before the last night where Sir Hēmi Mokomoko lies in state. There have been 3 days of tangi already, where Māoridom has come to show their deep regard, respect, admiration, and love for distinguished Professor Hēmi Mokomoko.

[00:08:10]But now we will take you to a special report by Te Ao Māori News reporter Michael Kaukau, who was on the ground here yesterday and managed to speak to many of the representatives who made their way here to Kokohinau today, where they began at 9:00 this morning. And in particular, the representatives of Tū Kingi Tūheitia and of course Te Arikinui Queenie Ngāwai Hōne Te Pō.

[00:09:34]Well, now Hēmi in more here to I know Matahūhū at Te Kīngitanga Māori in my mind the matter and I a high and I me or and I me uh may look at the look at the look at the look at the uh I can look at the look at the look at the look at the in at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the a while uh look at the uh look at the the man and the look at the look at the uh look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the uh look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the uh look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the look at the >> Michael Catley, Te Ao Maori News.

[00:11:55]Michael Catley there with a very special report from Te Ao Maori News. And our thanks to Te Ao Maori News and tonight so we can bring you this live broadcast from Kokohuia Marae. The people of Te Pae o Te Rangi Ngati Whatua have been looking after the multitudes of Maoridom who have made their way here over the last 3 days. So much work goes into making sure they can manaki and look after the thousands of people who have made their way to this marae to pay their respects to this distinguished professor Sir Hemi Mukomuka. Chief amongst them has been our next guest. He has been there right from the time the word came down that Sir Hemi Mukomuka passed at the age of 99 on Friday. He joins us now at a lot here at North Te Awa on Ngati Whatua. We're joined of course by Joe Harawira.

[00:13:13]Joe Harawira, thank you so much for joining us on the way. I know you'd much rather be in there at Karakia so thank you for allowing yourself to us. Can I ask you have seen and heard a lot over the last 3 days.

[00:13:26]But you also would have felt a lot for a man that you knew well and admired.

[00:13:32]What are you feeling now?

[00:13:34]>> I'm feeling a sense of loss, a sense of grief at this particular moment in time.

[00:13:40]This is the last night that Moana Puketapu for our Kaumatua. And over the years that I have known Pa Henare um the work that he has done for Te Reo Maori Maori language and my whanau from his teaching days right through to the universities and to his um work around Matariki Maori.

[00:14:09]A the two are two year year the two are two year year the two are two year year the two are two year year the two are two year year the two are two year year the two are two year year the two are two year year the two are two year year the two are two year year the two are two year A the two are two year year the two are two year A the two are two year year the two are two year year the two are two year year the two are two year year the two are two year A the two are two year year the two are two year year the two are two year year the two >> He obviously recently just released his book Matariki Maori.

[00:14:32]And at that launch he still said there was much to do.

[00:14:35]For a man of 99 years that not only encouraged me, it also kind of bewildered me slightly that someone of that age was still keen to get work done. Right up until his last seconds he was working.

[00:14:50]What was there left to do?

[00:14:52]>> I think he felt a sense of um sense of loss I I suppose in terms of the future.

[00:15:03]Um from what he was telling myself and and Ewi he is he was not the font of all knowledge. But the knowledge that he was given and then he that he learned from his elders was there was still much to do and he he looked after the his his He always said that I am not the font of all knowledge. We have much to learn, and my role is to progress by planting seeds for our future generations.

[00:16:01]>> I'm interested you say that.

[00:16:03]Because for many of us, whether we're budding academics or those who just have a passion for Teo Mar and for things Mar we almost thought of him as the font of all knowledge. He was the spring that we would run to to get that invigoration and inspiration to learn.

[00:16:20]Or to undertake the process to learn.

[00:16:23]When you hear all of that being said by Mar to move the last 3 days what do you make of comments like that?

[00:16:30]>> I He didn't he was wasn't one for labels.

[00:16:34]He said, "I am a follower of people."

[00:16:44]>> I love it.

[00:16:46]>> We are able to take the whole Mar the whole of you and the people.

[00:17:10]>> He could be quite a hard case to handle.

[00:17:11]>> Oh, he was a he was a he was a bit of a hard case. He is.

[00:17:15]Um people people look at him and um, you know, academically, so a lot of people think, "Oh, academics you're just >> Monocle.

[00:17:24]Boring. Monocle.

[00:17:38]Yeah. I think it's important we also acknowledge his partner, Lady June, of course, who supported him for many years until, of course, her passing. And then his Tamaki Hikino, Aroha, Linda, leaders in their own and their what. But also Ngati Awa, he has set a trajectory for Ngati Awa to go forward. But also for Mataatua, I know he was keen for Mataatua Waka to unite.

[00:18:06]>> Yes.

[00:18:06]>> What did he mean by that?

[00:18:08]>> I think, uh, this is one of one of the tasks that he left for myself and for Ngati Uh, wait uh Wait a minute.

[00:19:07]Okay.

[00:19:14]Now >> What a legacy.

[00:19:34]Working right to the >> Right to the end. He was He just that his mind never stopped.

[00:19:42]>> Nice.

[00:19:55]I I know this will also be point of pain for you losing someone you admired and respected and loved. And I just want to thank you for allowing us to broadcast here tonight, for allowing us to be a part of the kōpapa, but also for speaking to us tonight. I know you'll be feeling this keenly, and I really appreciate you taking the time with us.

[00:20:23]We're now going to take you to a very special story we did with distinguished Professor Hirini Moko Mead. In 2024, we sat down to interview him for the podcast Indigenous 100, and Māori Television have generously allowed us to play a part of that tonight.

[00:20:40]The interview was held in the library that bears Hirini Moko Mead's name, in the archive room that bears his wife's name, Lady June Mead.

[00:20:54]This is a part of our Indigenous 100 interview with distinguished Professor Hirini Moko Mead in 2024.

[00:21:02]>> Now, I don't know how much they actually know of of what I have done.

[00:21:11]And I think even my people here really don't know.

[00:21:18]And that's because I've I've lived so long.

[00:21:23]And the ones who did know have gone.

[00:21:27]They've passed on.

[00:21:29]And the next generation that's come along um don't really have the same kind of knowledge um of what I've done. They just know, "Oh, he grew up within."

[00:21:49]Uh he has a bit of mana around here.

[00:21:53]And that I'm treated uh with respect.

[00:22:00]And so I gather from that that uh the legacy is that they do some of them do remember um what has been done and uh what I have achieved uh orally.

[00:22:22]Uh and the many battles that I fought.

[00:22:28]And uh one could say that yes, uh I did walk the talk.

[00:22:36]>> I also get a sense of um of the hand of I don't know how you feel about it when people talk like this, but the hand of Tūpuna play.

[00:22:46]>> Oh, there's a lot of that there. A lot of that at play. Yes, um and I'm very very grateful for it, actually.

[00:22:54]Uh once we got into the Waitangi Tribunal process uh I met regularly with the Kaumatua.

[00:23:04]Just regularly, every time we struck some problem, call all the Kaumatua together.

[00:23:12]And the Kaumatua then um were different from the ones now.

[00:23:19]They were still hooked in, you know, to to the older ways.

[00:23:25]>> What does it mean?

[00:23:26]>> I don't I don't know. I mean, it's it's a generational shift.

[00:23:31]And I think with each generation, they take away something.

[00:23:40]Uh we never quite know what it is that they took away.

[00:23:46]But I would say the way to a Maori, they may have been more colonized than us now, but they had this way to a uh whanau together.

[00:24:01]They were more cohesive as a whanau.

[00:24:06]And I think uh poverty caused that.

[00:24:13]And that was a response that uh whanau had to They had to work together and survive.

[00:24:23]And uh this generation of elders um actually showed up very clearly what colonization had done.

[00:24:40]These are the ones or pakeha karaiti Maori together.

[00:24:47]Karaiti Maori and uh church and um It seemed to me that generation after Edward and them showed up the the consequences of all of the policies that had been uh well, promulgated enforced upon Maori.

[00:25:12]>> And detrimental >> Yes. To Maori.

[00:25:14]And here they were.

[00:25:17]Wanting to become Maori.

[00:25:22]But didn't have the help.

[00:25:26]The the family is just breaking up.

[00:25:30]Good. Going to town, going somewhere else.

[00:25:34]And you're left here with just a little core of them.

[00:25:39]Uh trying to hold uh the mana of their marae.

[00:25:45]Or their partner. So, it's a just a it's a generational shift.

[00:25:50]I think the next one coming up is stronger than the present one.

[00:25:56]>> Really?

[00:25:57]>> Oh, yes. You can You can see the signs.

[00:26:08]I'm going to call out the Maori.

[00:26:15]But they're that generation of Maori though, the present one.

[00:26:21]I think it's less uh culturally prepared than than the kids that are coming up now.

[00:26:31]>> What is Maori Maori?

[00:26:33]>> Ah, yes. We come to the basic question.

[00:26:39]Um well, we have to go back a bit.

[00:26:43]>> Yeah.

[00:26:45]>> I think Maori Maori is a legacy.

[00:26:52]It's a rare sort of power that just in recent years um we began to see it again.

[00:27:11]Because the colonizing forces of the country um had determined that uh no one in New Zealand, as it turned out, I thought it was just anti-Maori.

[00:27:32]But it turned out nobody No, the teaching system was not to be used to teach anything Maori to anybody to any child.

[00:27:50]It was prevented.

[00:27:52]Prohibited in Maori schools.

[00:27:56]And as it happened by just not permitting it permitting it and allowing it in general schools Pakeha kids didn't know anything either.

[00:28:14]But um it was the damage done down to the reo the leadership system uh the knowledge system those the religious system All of those were immediately targeted uh by the the settlers who it here and the missionaries.

[00:28:48]Them combined.

[00:28:51]And so through suppression policies on suppression Mātaranga Māori disappeared.

[00:29:00]>> Mhm.

[00:29:01]>> Just went out.

[00:29:04]Along with it the reo.

[00:29:09]Along with it all our kōrero about te rangi and papa.

[00:29:15]All our um our karakia mostly slipped away.

[00:29:25]Except in certain places far away from Pākehā influence they survived.

[00:29:35]>> Mhm.

[00:29:38]>> Places like um parts of Ngāti Porou way away, way out.

[00:29:45]And uh Tuhoe is one of them. Wai Rūtaia Ngata.

[00:29:52]And several places up north they still spoke the reo.

[00:29:58]They still knew their matauranga, their tikanga.

[00:30:02]They still knew about te rangi and papa.

[00:30:05]And there was still one or two people who knew karakia.

[00:30:11]And it was during Te Māori in the 1984.

[00:30:16]>> 84.

[00:30:17]>> Um when we discovered that there were about that many and and you even stretched to get that many tōhunga who actually knew karakia tūturu.

[00:30:36]And good foot it, but uh Henare Te Punga.

[00:30:41]At that time he was the guru and actually very learned old man who knew knew his culture.

[00:30:53]And was keen to to share it.

[00:30:59]And so the whole lot of stuff, you know, was suppressed.

[00:31:04]And then I think once the Treaty of Waitangi Act was passed things began, you know, to move.

[00:31:16]And then all the treaty claim began to happen.

[00:31:22]And all this information began coming back.

[00:31:29]And I think that's when Matauranga Maori re-emerged.

[00:31:38]>> We have some political representatives who are even who are even questioning not just the relevance of the place of a constitutional document like the treaty.

[00:31:48]Where we hear politicians talking about issues like co-governance uh in the way that they do, which in their view shouldn't exist.

[00:32:00]Do you think that might happen?

[00:32:03]>> Well, I do, but I think that we can do something about it.

[00:32:08]Um my view, you know, all of those people who who are bucking um the direction in which things are going are simply idiots.

[00:32:24]They're in the way.

[00:32:26]And I think the movement will keep going despite the idiots.

[00:32:33]Um because there are are a lot of pakeha people who are joining us in this movement.

[00:32:42]When you look at all the kapa haka groups in our primary schools, some of them absolutely all pakeha. No Maori.

[00:32:52]Just no Maori.

[00:32:54]But they're in it.

[00:32:56]And their parents are supporting them.

[00:33:00]So I think there's a movement that is underway now.

[00:33:05]And I think the idiots can't stop it.

[00:33:11]>> The words of distinguished Professor Sir Hemi Henare Mokomoko, currently lying in state in his ancestral house of Oruawharo Pa here.

[00:33:20]At Te Pai Poto Te Marae o Kokohuia. As you can see, behind us, hopefully you can see with the lights, it is pouring down now and the wind is blowing. But some might say that's the aroha of our matua tupuna in preparation for the farewell to a great man and a man deeply loved and admired by many. Those who have made their way here to Te Marae o Kokohuia over the last three days. And of course Te Pai Poto has looked after those people throughout the last three days. And someone who is very close to the man we call Koro Henare Te Kuruwa.

[00:33:52]joins us now. She is Waitangi Black. She was with him in his last moments as well.

[00:33:59]>> Waitangi Te Mana Wai.

[00:34:00]>> Te Mana Wai. Thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate your time.

[00:34:04]What does it mean for you now to know that someone so beloved by many and of course by you as well has now been lost to us today?

[00:34:14]>> Whaka Waitangi katoa a Mahara.

[00:34:17]Tana Taniwha katoa o roto.

[00:34:19]I tiri to Hana o Te Naera o Iwa.

[00:34:23]E ara Kuruwa no i Whanakau.

[00:34:24]>> Mhm.

[00:34:25]>> O te whanau na Te Naera o Iwa. O Ngati Awa. I tona hapu o Te Pai Poto. No ona hapu Mahanga Te Rangi Hau Kimi. E ra e ra.

[00:34:48]>> You were with him in those last moments, huh?

[00:34:53]That must be something that sticks with you even now.

[00:34:56]>> Even now.

[00:34:58]>> Talking, teaching.

[00:35:00]Tried to educate people right up until the last moment, huh?

[00:35:03]>> Right up until the last moment.

[00:35:04]>> What was he talking about?

[00:35:07]>> How absolutely lucky are we? Yeah.

[00:35:11]Then they come over.

[00:35:13]He If I were him, I'd get my guitar.

[00:35:19]>> I don't know what YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

[00:35:30]UH BOY, HERE YOU GOT TO HAVE MY TIE.

[00:35:37]Uh And then he He tied my Uh he was holding Uh My feet hurt like a ton of weight.

[00:36:50]>> What has it been like for you to see so many?

[00:36:54]Like they all here to the what has been the heaving and thriving metropolis of the tickle of the center of Maoridom over the last 3 days. What what has it been like for you to see, to hear, to feel, to know just how beloved he was by so many throughout Maoridom, throughout all of New Zealand.

[00:37:15]>> Um absolutely heartwarming.

[00:37:24]Definitely not surprising neither.

[00:37:27]Um creating books and the right time and zone, right?

[00:37:37]Ah book up book up ah wait up there.

[00:37:45]And of course Maoridom, not just Maori, non-Maori came in the multitudes today. Get in there.

[00:37:53]What do you buy people too?

[00:38:00]>> What has it been like for Ngati Awa to have this huge event happen here?

[00:38:07]As you say to look after the multitudes.

[00:38:10]You know, there's a whole sway of people out there doing the main.

[00:38:14]Let alone those who are out here. I mean, it's raining now.

[00:38:17]But beautiful that way. Beautiful. But everyone out here, the whole operation and of course the karakia happening now.

[00:38:23]What's there being like for you? Just seeing Just seeing so many people come together. Is this the unity that he talked about that he was looking for from Matatu that he used to talk about?

[00:38:30]The Kotahitanga that he was looking for from Ngati Awa that he used to talk a lot about as well.

[00:38:37]>> Under the guidance of Tahi me koro.

[00:38:41]Um he composed the waiata me to momo mai.

[00:38:47]To momo mai.

[00:38:49]And not only did he compose the waiata um the kupu he was very instrumental in ensuring that he made his way around to all Ngati Awa fadi organizations and help them get to know what they had here.

[00:39:05]And I'm not sure if that's a a a a practice of all composers of waiata. I know of composers who have created waiata got to go with the waiata. Uh Maratai mate kapai fakati nana.

[00:39:18]And then they Tahi me he went around to all his hapu or the Tonga Ngati Awa. He did the fakadono he done the waiata he did the mate ki ana arina he did the koredor in a kupu o tana waiata.

[00:39:33]So during those years and even prior to those years he did the noho kotahi ana Ngati Awa.

[00:39:38]Yera ahua tanga ona.

[00:39:42]>> What must Ngati Awa do now?

[00:39:46]What is it that he wanted Ngati Awa wants Ngati Awa to do now do you think Moana?

[00:39:54]>> He wants Ngati Awa to share stories.

[00:39:59]He did the koredor. He did fakaputa fakado he did the fakatsutsuki awa fakado.

[00:40:05]I think a big part of why um he sit with many of the Ngati Awa whether it be over coffee.

[00:40:13]Okay.

[00:40:14]>> Well we'll let you have that one.

[00:40:16]>> Whether it be over coffee um whether it be at his home, or his corner, even via email. Um, called or was even professionally Texas and emails and more he would talk to you the might eat on the wire and could call you at any moment.

[00:40:33]And get the call it on. Get the feet to call it on to know what you're thinking and to share what he was thinking.

[00:40:40]And for us to turn that into something.

[00:40:42]Turn it into something. What are we going to do with that information now?

[00:40:46]Create a song. Create a haka. Use that knowledge and do something with it.

[00:40:51]So, I guess for me as as a lot of that here and I just fits in that category maybe.

[00:40:58]Share our share our stories.

[00:41:07]>> As you say that I'm thinking of something and it goes like this.

[00:41:36]Do you think we're going to miss him tonight?

[00:41:37]>> We're not the that we have to cry over.

[00:41:42]>> What are you thinking now? Thank you so much for joining us. I know I know just like Joe you'd rather be there than here.

[00:41:48]I know they're going to have a have a heck of a put a put a walk in here with so thank you for joining us.

[00:41:55]That was Moana in black with us here tonight and that is us tonight our broadcast for the Hui special broadcast here at Kokiri No.

[00:42:03]Paying homage uh to a great New Zealander.

[00:42:08]One of our leading and not leading scholars who passed away on Friday at the age of 99. The funeral preparations are that tomorrow at 10:00 the service will be held here at the marae and then Hemi will make his final journey to his resting place at the Waipapa just not far from here actually. The Waipapa Thank you for joining us here tonight.

[00:42:36]It's been a privilege to be here. Our thanks to the people of to the people of Ngati Awa to the people of Ngati Awa and all of the Ngati Awa who have welcomed the mini here over the last few days. Our thanks also to Whakaata Maori to our Maori news for joining with us and for supporting us in this live broadcast here tonight.

[00:43:15]Thank you Xena. I appreciate it.

[00:43:17]>> Okay.