“I Went on 3-Day Benders… Now I’m 21 Years Sober” | Addiction, Sobriety & Fatherhood

Added: 2026-05-09

[00:00:00]I created Nothing's Off the Table to inspire real hope and change for people struggling with addiction and for those already in recovery who are looking to continue to grow. We share raw, honest stories, including the darkest moments, not to glorify drugs, alcohol, or gambling, but to show where addiction can take us, and more importantly, that it doesn't have to end there. Recovery is possible, change is possible, and if someone else made it out, so can you. I hope you enjoy today's episode.

[00:00:28]Welcome to Nothing's Off the Table.

[00:00:30]Michael Chernow, everyone.

[00:00:32]>> This man is uh sober 21 years. Um, he's a father, he's a husband, he's a very successful restaurant tour and entrepreneur, but we were talking a little bit offline kind of how this this episode started, which is not how we normally start it, but um, we were talking about AA and the program, just kind of how your recovery has evolved over the last 21 years, and we'll get into that, but I want to jog your memory a little bit for the people because What you see here, ladies and gentlemen, is a very handsome, well put together, successful man. I'm not so sure this is the way you looked 21 years ago when you got sober. Um, I'd love to kind of hear about your last day drinking or drugging and what got you here.

[00:01:28]So, um, August 1st, 2004 was the last day I put mind and mood altering substances into my body. Last drink, last drug.

[00:01:45]There was a lot of both of them on August 1st sec, 2004. But I had been up for 48 hours, you know, give or take, maybe a little more, a little less. I would I was just notorious for going on two to four day long non-stop benders with like I don't know maybe a 45 minute crash out at some point but traditionally I would do a two to three day bender sleep for a day on a on like cuz I was I still had a job in a restaurant sleep for a day and then that was the cycle I'd just start drinking and I wouldn't stop until my body completely at like just completely crashed out. Um anyway, it was August 1st, 2004. I had been up for 48 hours. I was with uh I was with two friends.

[00:02:46]One of them is actually a good friend now who's now sober a long time, too. Uh thank God he got sober about 10 years after I did. But we were on the roof of my apartment building. It was a burning hot August morning. Uh I don't know, probably 95° and like 100% humidity. And we had been up for days.

[00:03:11]And for whatever reason, at like 8:00 a.m. they were like, "All right, we're done. We're calling it." And I was like, I had like a pocket full of drugs.

[00:03:24]I knew I had beer in my apartment and I lived right downstairs from the roof, of course. And I was like, "All right, see you." You know, and I walked into my apartment and mind you, two weeks prior to this, I had overdosed on heroin.

[00:03:37]So, I was at I overdosed on heroin.

[00:03:42]I left the apartment that I I did not die in, and I was walking west. This is two weeks prior to my sober date. I was walking west on 13th Street from Avenue B and I swore to my I swear to God I would never do it again. I swore because I I literally just died and the girl that I was with threw me in a bathtub, put me on my back, turned on the cold water because she was terrified to call the ambulance, right? Like that's what happens. Junkies hanging out. Someone dies. They don't want to call the cops.

[00:04:14]There's drugs. There's, you know, they're scared. they're going to go to jail, whatever. So, instead of calling the ambulance, she like put me in the bathtub, turned on the cold water, and just prayed that I was going to not die.

[00:04:26]And luckily, I didn't die. But I remember walking west on 13th Street, saying to myself, "This is it. You've just gone to the darkest side of life.

[00:04:35]You died. You're you're the fact that you're up and walking three hours after that is insane.

[00:04:42]You got to stop, Mike. You got to stop."

[00:04:46]like like this is it. And like three hours later, I was back using like it was like I it was like basically it was like like having that conversation in my head. I remember the conversation and then it was like cut to 3 hours later the sun was coming down and I was back using heroin.

[00:05:08]Heroin was a was a part of my story in the last year. It wasn't always a part of my story.

[00:05:16]So anyway, when I when I kind of realized that I had no control and I knew I was out of control, I had been to outpatient rehab. I my first AA meeting was when I was 16. I knew I had a problem for years, but when when I had when I ODed and then I was right back at it a few hours later, I was like, "Okay, this is it, dude.

[00:05:42]You're 23.

[00:05:45]You You You should just end it. Just There's no way out. There's no way out. You can't figure out how to get out of this hole.

[00:06:01]You swear to God 3 hours ago after you just overdosed that you were going to stop and you're right back at it. Let's just end it, dude. Let's just go as hard as we can until you overdose and die because there's no other way. And I hate living this existence. I really did. I hated it. It wasn't like I enjoyed using and drinking the way I was using and drinking. I hadn't taken a salad [ __ ] in years. My piss was like purple brown. I used to tiptoe in my apartment when nobody was home thinking, you know, I was being watched.

[00:06:39]It was awful. It was awful. It's awful.

[00:06:45]And um anyway, they left. I went downstairs the last, you know, on that August 1st day and I walked into my bedroom, sun was up, and I closed my bedroom door, and right behind my bedroom door, I had a wall mirror on the on the wall. And I kind of like caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror and I like stopped and I like looked at myself in the mirror and I scanned. I remember like looking at myself and for whatever reason I made eye contact with myself and I had never done that before but I remember so clearly like being like and then like looking at me for the like looking at yourself in the eyes is a pretty intense thing you know. I didn't look anybody in the eyes ever. I was a shady dude. And I looked at myself in the eyes and I was like, I hate you. I just I hate you, man. You live on the fifth floor.

[00:07:42]Just jump, dude. Just just do it. You'll It'll be quick. Like, you'll open up the window, [ __ ] jump out.

[00:07:52]You'll You'll be dead and you won't have to worry anymore. You don't have to worry about not living like this anymore.

[00:07:59]It's not what I did. I poured out all of my drugs and I proceeded to just annihilate it. And I drank beer after beer and I blacked out. And I woke up 16 hours later. I had slept to work. Frank, my boss, uh, was like, "You got to come to the restaurant." I lived upstairs, so I was like, "I'll be right down." I knew it was coming. And he looked at me and you know, he's an old school Italian guy who I partied with. He partied. He still parties.

[00:08:36]But he looked at me and he's like, "Kid, I love you. I love you like a son, man.

[00:08:39]I do. But you're dying. Everybody knows you're dying. I can't I I got to fire you. I got to fire you, man." And I had been working there for like two years at that point. Two and a half years. I loved my job. I loved my job because it was a awesome restaurant, but it also allowed me to drink and use the way I drank and used. Everybody partied. There was no rules.

[00:09:00]And he was like, "I got to fire you, man." He's like, "I never thought that I'd have to fire you, but I have to cuz I cannot allow you to live this life and die on my watch." And I begged him for my job. I begged him for my job because I wanted my job in the restaurant so bad. It was the only thing that I had left that was like tethering me to life, you know?

[00:09:21]I was so I can't even imagine what I looked like begging this guy for my job.

[00:09:26]I can't even imagine. But I was crying, begging him for my job. And I must have looked like hell, like a zombie, you know. And he said, "Listen, you can come to the restaurant in the morning at 8 and you can clean with the porters.

[00:09:44]You call me when you get here. If you're a minute late, you're fired. If I find out that you have a single sip of alcohol anywhere near or close to this place or a sip a single line of drugs, you're fired. And I'll find out. Mike, I'm willing to do this if you get sober.

[00:10:05]And I get emotional even thinking about that because he saved my life.

[00:10:13]I've had two guys save my life in my journey and Frank was the first one and he said sober and for some reason it was like wow wow wow like in my head I heard it for the first time. It was from a guy that I looked up to, a guy that I loved and he gave me a chance and he said, "But you you got to get sober, dude. I cannot I don't want to watch you die. And I think he knew that if he would have fired me and I think he knew that I was days away from the end. I just So I think he gave me that chance because he saw how desperate I was to keep my job and he probably said, "Man, if I fire this kid, I'm going to lose him." you know.

[00:11:09]Anyway, that was the last day I drank and uh and used and I called I called one friend that I trusted who was this woman Karen who I worked with in a in a nightclub on Bleecker Street when I was like 16, 17, 18. And she was this like insanely hot bartender who I had the biggest crush on. And I was this young barback kid that was working in one of the hottest nightclubs in New York. And they could none of them could figure out how I got the job. But all the hot bartenders always flirted with me and always like, you know, you know, had a good time with me. And and so Karen would always take me in when I was down and out. I moved out of my parents house when I was 15.

[00:11:59]So I was this triedand-true New York City rebel street kid. And whenever I was strung out, down and out, whatever, I'd call Karen and she'd be like, "Come to the apartment. I'd come to her apartment. She'd feed me. She'd she'd take care of me." Like literally like an older sister. She kind of became this like older sister figure for me. And and I knew that she had gotten sober. And so she was the only person I knew that was sober that I trusted.

[00:12:26]And I called her and I said, "Hey, I'm ready. I got to change. I I I I got to change. And you know, I can't like when I think about that day, I think about me being in the bedroom. I think about and this is before I passed out. I think about this. I I the sun was coming through the the windows, but like the blinds were pulled, but the sun was coming through the windows. And I remember kind of fixating in my delirium, fixating on the sun coming through the windows. And you know, I I have a really powerful faith practice now. I did not have any faith then.

[00:13:19]But when I think about that day and when I think about that sun coming through the windows and me fixating on it, it would be remiss of me not to say that was God coming in to my life because what else could it have been, you know? Like the amount of times I'd been fired from a job prior to that. I mean, I have crazy stories about things that I did, you know, like I mean, I faked my own death.

[00:13:58]I faked my own death when I was 19 years old. You know, >> for what purpose? I just want to take a quick break to say a special thank you to my sponsor, Banyan Treatment Centers.

[00:14:09]Over the last couple months, I've gotten to work closely with everyone on their team. All I can say is is that they genuinely care. Whether you're suffering from drugs, alcohol, gambling, depression, anxiety, PTSD, they have a program that's built to help you. The most amazing thing is that they'll meet you where you're at. Whether you need detox, inpatient, outpatient, or even virtual care, they have a program that's for you. If you're suffering, if a loved one is suffering, don't be afraid to reach out. You don't have to have all the answers, but all you have to do is take the first step and make the call.

[00:14:41]In the description of this episode, I've attached the phone number and a link to their website. Don't be afraid to take the first step and change your life.

[00:14:49]>> Let me finish this and then I want to tell you that story.

[00:14:51]>> I need to hear that one.

[00:14:54]>> So, uh, I called Karen. Karen called her boyfriend because she was like, "Let, you know, she was relatively newly sober, probably a year or two, and she was like, "Let me call my boyfriend who's sober."

[00:15:12]And she called her boyfriend, Marcus. Her Marcus showed up and this dude, Frank was like the key in the door. Marcus was like the lobby of the room of the of the building for me. He was just this guy showed up and this dude, tough dude, shaved head, covered in tattoos, had a big gold Rolex on when he walked through the doors. And I'm thinking to myself, man, you know, I'm going to get sober. Like, my life is over. Like, there was a piece of that, right? Like, I'm never going to have fun again.

[00:15:50]>> I'm going to be boring and like, what am I going to do? What am I going to do? My life was built around partying and getting high. And this guy walks in the door and I'm like, that dude's sober.

[00:16:05]And he was like killing it. And I was like, I could do that. I want to do that.

[00:16:12]Whatever he's doing, I want it. you know, like I and so I spent my life needing and still to an extent today needing external validation from men specifically cuz I had a really rough relationship with my father and I don't endorse that necessarily, right? Like I don't think it's healthy for for people to walk around needing external validation to make them feel good about themselves. However, I do think in a situation like that, when you're at the bottom of the barrel and you see somebody who's killing it in a very positive way, wanting to chase that person, wanting that person to give you a pat on the back, wanting to make that person proud, I 100% think it's valid. And in some cases, if not all cases, a requirement to want to chase somebody in the world of sobriety, somebody that's got something that you want sober. And so he was that guy for me. He introduced me to fitness and nutrition and Muay Thai kickboxing. And guy changed my life.

[00:17:31]Changed my life 100%. just showed up, took me under his wing, kicked the [ __ ] out of me physically, taught me what it meant to have integrity, helped me build confidence, really showed me how to be like an actual man, you know? I was such a puss.

[00:17:50]I was like I thought I was a tough guy.

[00:17:53]I mean, I got into more fist fights in the last couple years of drinking than anybody. I mean, I was just I was like a complete loose cannon. You know, if I was sitting next to you in a bar and we're having a good time and you said something to me that I didn't like and I would say, "What?" And you would say, "What?"

[00:18:11]I would just tee off all the time. It just happened. And it was terrible. I got I got 86 from every single bar south of Hston, north of Canal, east of Allen, and west of Essex. Every bar in the Lower East Side, I was not allowed to go into anymore. It was terrible.

[00:18:29]I was so far from a tough guy. I was a scared kid hiding behind a bunch of booze and al and drugs. And I thought that I had to put on this persona.

[00:18:43]>> When I met a real tough guy, Marcus, who's a real tough guy, uh he taught me what it was like to live a better life.

[00:18:51]And I owe my life to that guy. He's still my mentor. I speak to him every week. He's my greatest sponsor, if you want to call him a sponsor. But um yeah, that was the last day. Man, it's crazy. It's crazy that you had this like one and one and done type situation into into your recovery because for me it was like eight years of meeting people like that and seeing people who had what I wanted and I just couldn't I couldn't stop. And I also was like you just um hiding behind a persona of of a tough guy macho mentality and seeking external validation and filling the void with drugs and alcohol.

[00:19:44]And I was just really just scared and needed some love and and kindness, but also some direction and someone to like really slap me around a little bit and show me that like I'm not that tough and also that everything I'm doing is wrong.

[00:20:00]Everything the way I think about things and approach things, the way I interact with people and situations is just wrong.

[00:20:08]And um awesome that it worked for you the first time. probably saved you a many years of more chaos and destruction.

[00:20:18]>> Yeah, I mean there were definitely moments throughout my drinking and using days where I would go to a meeting or try it.

[00:20:30]>> Uh you know, when I was 16, I was mandated to outpatient rehab. Um, but you know that that I never strung any sobriety time together and it and and and for sure I didn't want to get sober.

[00:20:45]Like there was no like it sounds like you spent eight years wanting to get sober and not being able to actually string it together. I didn't want to get sober. Like I was not there yet, you know?

[00:20:56]>> And so but at 23 I got so lucky, man. is young, you know, young young to get sober. And, you know, I think for guys like us who are just extreme humans, like we, you know, I had a guy on my podcast, this this uh guy dust Dr. Russell Saraski, double board certified neurologist and addiction specialist. He spent over a decade in in human clinical studies on the brain of addicts and alcoholics.

[00:21:31]And I had him on the podcast and he is 100% confident backed by science that your brain and my brain are just wired differently than someone who does not have addiction's brain.

[00:21:51]like we have addiction. And he also clarified that for me. I would be like, "Yeah, you know, I'm drug addict or alcohol." He's like, "When people say when people have cancer, they don't say I am cancer. People have Alzheimer's, they're not like I'm Alzheimer's.

[00:22:05]>> You know what I mean? He's like, you don't you are not an addict. You have addiction, dude. You got to understand, you have a dise this is it's an actual disease. like when they when you get into the Alcoholics Anonymous or one of these programs, you know, uh they say it's a disease and like you're kind of like, "Yeah, right. Okay, it's a disease." Okay, it's a disease.

[00:22:27]>> It's actually a disease. Like it is actually a disease. It's a brain disorder >> and our lipid system fires like 10x.

[00:22:35]>> Um so we have this thing, right? and very few people um are able to come out of it.

[00:22:51]Sad.

[00:22:53]In your 21 years of recovery, what what's kept you going and kind of how has your life evolved? Like I think for a lot of people who watch this this podcast, I think there's a lot of people who watch who are new or who are still sick and suffering currently.

[00:23:11]And I think you know this just as well as I do. The first year of recovery is often the hardest, right? It's you're feeling everything for the first time.

[00:23:22]Your normal coping mechanisms of drinking or drugging or not being used.

[00:23:30]What did you do that first year to stay in recovery and stay in sobriety? And kind of what your what did your life look like that kept you going?

[00:23:39]It's a culmination of a number of things. I have to say Marcus was like a massive influence on me.

[00:23:48]Having that guy that I really wanted to impress and I really wanted him to pat me on the back.

[00:23:57]Structure is a requirement for people that struggle with addiction.

[00:24:03]Structure is a requirement.

[00:24:06]You give someone who's battling addiction an hour without something to do.

[00:24:15]Good luck.

[00:24:18]1 hour, 30 minutes without a plan.

[00:24:25]Yeah. See you. You know, and so what Marcus did for me was he gave me a structured plan from the minute I woke up to the minute I go to bed.

[00:24:36]like list of things. And he knew based on my fighting in the street that I needed an outlet like that to be able to like deal with some of the trauma, pentup energy, pent up stuff in my body. So he introduced me to Muay Thai kickboxing and basically the plan that he gave me was it sounds like a long list and it sounds like a lot but he said to me, "Hey, you don't have to do any of this.

[00:25:21]This is what I do.

[00:25:25]I'm sober a long time.

[00:25:28]If you commit to this, the chances of you getting and staying sober are not guaranteed, but far greater than if you don't commit to this. And at that point, I wanted to get sober. I wanted to be sober because I was I hated the life I was living. I knew I was dying and I knew that I didn't have much time left. And so, he basically said, "This is what I want you to do. I want you to get up as early as you can in the morning.

[00:25:58]I had not been up early in the morning unless I was up from the night before in decades. Well, maybe not decades, a decade and a half cuz I, you know, I started when I was 12. And he said, "I want you to get up as early as you can in the morning.

[00:26:13]As soon as you get up, you don't roll around. You don't you don't [ __ ] around in bed. You get out of your bed immediately. You stand up. You turn around. You make your bed. First thing, boom. First win. Little win. you make your bed. When was the last time you made your bed? I didn't make my bed. I don't even think I had sheets on my bed, you know. So, he was like, "Make your bed. As soon as you As soon as you make your bed, you're going to just beline it into the bathroom. You're going to take a piss. You're going to wash your face.

[00:26:39]When was the last time you washed your face?" I don't know. I don't think I ever have. Wash your face. You're going to put on your contact lenses. You're going to brush your teeth. As soon as you're done with that, you're going to drop down on your knees and you're going to ask God for help. And I was like, "Whoa, what do you mean?" He was like, "Listen, you need help, dude.

[00:26:59]Your biggest problem is that you don't know how to ask for help. You need help.

[00:27:05]And it's a lot easier to get into the rhythm of asking for help in your life by starting first thing in the morning on your knees asking God. I don't care if you believe in God. I don't care if you have a bad history with God. I don't care. Pray to water. Pray to the sun.

[00:27:25]Pray to anything. It could be anything as long as it's not another human being.

[00:27:30]But I want you to get on your knees and ask for help. And I was like, "All right, what do I say?" He says, "Help."

[00:27:35]That's it. Just start there. Help. So he says, "You pray and then right when you're done with your prayers, I want you to do some push-ups."

[00:27:44]And I was like, "Okay." After push-ups, he says, "I want you to go back into your bedroom, put on a pair of sneakers, and get out of the house immediately. Go take a walk. Could be a walk. It could be a jog." I was like, "Jogg? Damn jog."

[00:27:56]He's like, "I just want you to take a walk. Move your body." Took a walk around the block. He said, "As soon as you get home from the walk, I want you to eat a big bowl of oatmeal. You can make it taste like anything you want.

[00:28:06]You can add anything you want to it, but it's healthy. It's cheap. It's satiating. It's going to fill you up and it'll be a great nutritional win in the morning. I was like, "Okay." Then he said, "When you're done with your oatmeal, I want you to go to this meeting on 12th Street between 1 and A.

[00:28:22]It's called the 12th Street Workshop.

[00:28:24]Just get in there. Be there by 10:00 in the morning. Sit as close to the front as as you can. Raise your hand when they say who's counting days. Say who you are and why you're there. You're Michael Chernow. You're an alcoholic." And then he said, "Shut your [ __ ] mouth and listen." At the end of the meeting, try to meet some people. Get a phone number.

[00:28:42]Give a phone number. And then right when you're done with that meeting, you're going to go downtown. You're going to meet me on Canal Street at this gym called Five Points Academy. And I'm going to teach you about Muay Thai Kickboxing.

[00:28:55]And you're going to train with me for two hours every day. And um if and he said, "If you get there and I'm not there, you just train. You don't know what to do. Stand in front of the bag and punch it.

[00:29:08]but I want you to be there for two hours. And so I did that and then he said, "When you're done training, I'm going to take a shower and you're going to eat chicken and broccoli. You can go to a Chinese restaurant and just order, you know, the cheapest chicken and broccoli dish with no sauce or anything. Just want you to eat some chicken and broccoli. And then you're going to take a nap. when you get up from your nap, you're going to get ready to go to work. And uh go to work.

[00:29:39]And Frank, believe it or not, saw very quickly that I was doing this.

[00:29:46]And I asked him if I could come back to work. And he said, "You can come back to work if you stay sober."

[00:29:52]So, I went to work. I got sober behind the bar. And uh and then Marcus said, "You'll be at work. I'd like you to try to eat before 9:00 at night so that when it's ready to go to when you're ready to go to bed, you could just fall asleep. And he said, "When you get out of work, you go upstairs, you wash your face, you brush your teeth, you take out your contacts, you walk over to your bed, you drop down on your knees before you hop into bed, you say thank you, crawl into bed, put your head on the pillow, and close your eyes until you fall asleep."

[00:30:28]And that was that. Rinse and repeat. And I did that and I still do that.

[00:30:34]It's my life. So, I'm going to bounce around real quick.

[00:30:39]Do you think that Mark is making you eat oatmeal every morning has anything to do with you starting Creatures of Habit, which by the way, Creatures of Habit is your company, which from my understanding started as an oatmeal company. And now, >> what do you think?

[00:30:58]>> I was telling you offline, dude. I feel like I was probably you I don't know you came up with one of my Instagram ads. It's a long time. I lived in California and I ordered your ready to eat oatmeal. It's a long time ago. I would assume so.

[00:31:12]>> It's 100%. Yeah, >> I would assume so.

[00:31:15]>> That oatmeal I mean for me I had no idea how important nutritional wins were. I just didn't until I started consuming healthy food and seeing how much of an impact it had on how I felt.

[00:31:32]>> Yeah.

[00:31:33]>> Physically, but also emotionally and mentally.

[00:31:37]Eating a healthy meal is a massive win cuz it's so easy to not eat a healthy meal. So, it's a challenge and it's a win.

[00:31:45]>> Yeah. and he uh just got me in the habit of eating healthy food. And within 90 days of following this program that he put me on, everything in my life changed. I got in the best shape of my life. I felt alive. I didn't even want to drink.

[00:32:07]I had a guy that I like really looked at as like an older brother for the first time in my life that was doing good things.

[00:32:15]And I I was blessed, man. You know, and introduced me to God. Like I didn't have a relationship with God, you know, and so all those things that he told me to do really have just panned out very well in my life, you know, and and yeah, I created a business around the oatmeal because of how how how did oatmeal save my life? Probably not. Did it have a big was it was it a big part of my life saving days? And have I stuck to the oatmeal every day? Yeah. So, if I I saw to myself, if I can create a business that introduces a habit that could be a [ __ ] daily win for people that are struggling like I was, I got to do that.

[00:33:05]>> You are a husband and a father to two boys.

[00:33:08]>> Mhm.

[00:33:11]>> I'm a dad. I have a 2-year-old. I've uh I don't know if I'm supposed to say this yet, but I got another one on the way.

[00:33:17]Um yeah, >> let's go.

[00:33:20]>> How has how has recovery uh impacted your ability to be a dad and maybe taking away from some of the hardships you had with your father? Um what has kind of like recovery given you in in in being a father?

[00:33:40]So, I believe that people that have addiction, when they're in their active addiction, it is basically a lack of love in their life.

[00:34:02]They're looking for love, but it's a lack of love. So they they they think that by drinking and using drugs it's going to it it it sort of fakes this love emotion and in the beginning it probably works, right? Like I know when I first started using drugs and drinking I had the blast the best. I had such a good time >> cuz it worked.

[00:34:26]>> Yeah. I had such a good time. I had such a good time for for years probably until it stopped working. But people that are battling with addiction, at the end of the day, it's a lack of love.

[00:34:40]It's a lack of love. You You don't love yourself because you don't love yourself. You don't have the bandwidth or capabilities to love anybody else because you think you're unlovable. So, you don't even let people come close because you don't want to be hurt. So, like, boom, you're unlovable. You're never going to love me. I'm not letting you close. I'll pretend every once in a while. We'll have a good time, but you're not coming anywhere close to the heart. When you get sober for people that battle addiction for a long time, it's the first opportunity to actually experience love, loving yourself.

[00:35:21]And over time, it's it's not easy, especially in the first year or two, like there's you're raw.

[00:35:28]>> Yeah. You feel everything, the good and the bad. And the bad feelings typically are polarizing because you don't have that ability to just grab a drink and just mute out the bad feeling anymore.

[00:35:41]So, it hurts.

[00:35:43]But you get through that with a structured plan and you begin to learn to love yourself.

[00:35:52]And I strongly believe that you do not need to be shown how to how to love to love.

[00:36:03]Human beings are one of the very few beings to walk the planet that actually have the capability of understanding what this love thing is intellectually.

[00:36:18]We are love beings. It is conditioned in our DNA.

[00:36:24]And so I say you don't have to be shown how to love to love because I did not have the love blueprint as a kid. It was really unsafe and dangerous and scary and abusive for me as a kid in my house, my apartment.

[00:36:45]However, now I'm ha I'm shamelessly saying I am the best [ __ ] dad on the planet.

[00:36:56]I know I am.

[00:36:58]And I don't say that like, oh, I say that because I put all of my energy and intention into being the best dad. I want to be the best dad. I tell my kids I love them constantly. When I'm with them, I'm with them.

[00:37:15]And you know what?

[00:37:18]They love me back. And three out of five times I I put my son down. I put my son down every other night. My wife and I go back and forth when I'm home, when I'm not traveling.

[00:37:31]Before I leave the room, my older son Finn, he always has a hard time falling asleep. My younger son is like a elephant. He just like lies down. Ow. My my older son has always struggled with sleep. So, he he tends to stay up a little bit longer. or I hang out with him a little bit longer and he always asks for a hug when I leave before I leave the room and I put my head on his chest and I listen to his heartbeat and I can feel this love that is like when I'm when when when my head my right ear is on my little little guy when it's on his chest and I can hear him breathing and his heart beating the thought of Mikey you did it like that's my son breathing asking me for a hug and three out of five times he goes you're the best dad in the world that's all I need in life man >> not no possibility is out of the question if I was not sober >> you know what I'm saying like I would never have experienced that >> that my my son asking me for a hug me listening to his heartbeat and him breathe like literally I created this human. Listening to him breathe. Him hugging me and saying, "You're the best dad in the world. I'm done. I don't need anything else. Money, cars, [ __ ] experiences. Like, this is what I was born to do. Be this child, this dude's dad.

[00:39:05]I love it." And and it's because I'm sober.

[00:39:08]>> What are you up to right now? Tell the people where where we can find you. Tell us about your projects. Creatures of Habit, give us all the good stuff.

[00:39:18]>> Yeah, so Creatures of Habit, I, you know, we're four years in. We, it's a wellness brand. Um, it was, it's built off the back of my success in sobriety and my belief in habits, my belief in commitment. You know, I think commitment and discipline are the greatest god-given free attributes we as human beings can have if you hone them and sharpen them and work on them. And so I created a business to help people make better decisions on a daily basis, specifically around nutrition. If you start your day with a healthy meal, the chances of you making the next best decision after that are just greater. Again, not guaranteed, but the chances are greater. And so, we started the business with with meal one, which is our high protein overnight oatmeal. And then we recently launched uh a really awesome protein bar that has creatine in it. It's called the Daily Bar right here. Um and um so now, you know, you you start your day with meal one. We we've given you now a really super clean, super healthy, functional snack that that tastes like a candy bar, but it it's got no candy bar ingredients in it. And then we we make something called Creature Sleep for the end of the night. Um, it's a sweet, it's a it's a hot chocolate or you can make it into a chocolate milk that is uh again super clean ingredients but with scientifically studied and backed uh ingredients to help you relax, fall and stay asleep without having to pick up a cocktail. And it's melatonin free, so you don't have to deal with like the groggginess in the morning. There's no dependency on it. I just wanted to create like a sweet tooth quencher that was going to help people get into a relaxed state without having to grab a drink. And so that's the business. And uh you know it's this like sort of like wake up to wind down system and that's what I spend 95% of my time on today.

[00:41:17]I'm the CEO of that company and it's my third business. Uh I've I still wing it every day. You know, I love them. I wing it. But it's it's working. You know, >> we all I feel like we're all just kind of winging it. Anyone who tells you a little differently is kind of just, >> you know, >> I don't know.

[00:41:39]>> I'm I' I I've gotten so comfortable with winging it. So, I think basically what what it boils down to is is like there's a lot of people that are afraid to wing it, right? A lot of people. And that's what separates >> entrepreneurs from >> 9 to5ers.

[00:41:53]>> Yeah.

[00:41:55]And so if you can get comfortable with winging it, the more you wing it, the more comfortable you get winging it.

[00:42:01]>> Yeah.

[00:42:02]>> And you kind of sound like you know some [ __ ] because you've been winging it a long time.

[00:42:06]>> I've been winging it a long time. You know, when problems arise, like I and I, you know, I I've also gotten so good at asking for help. I mean, I ask for so much help. So much. I surround myself with the greatest people in the world so that I know that if if there's a problem that I just can't solve, which is 90% of them.

[00:42:27]>> Yeah.

[00:42:27]>> I I look to my left and I look to my right and I've got people that are just like down to help.

[00:42:31]>> You were just with Gary Vaynerchuk yesterday.

[00:42:33]>> Yeah. He's down to help, man. He's down to help. The guy's helped me a lot. He was a first investor in Creatures. He's invested multiple times in it. You know, he's just a he's >> His brain is different, dude.

[00:42:43]>> Brain is different. Smart son of a [ __ ] the ultimate winger winger. He's a He is the wingingestingest of wingers on the planet.

[00:42:52]>> Yeah.

[00:42:52]>> Yeah.

[00:42:54]>> Um before we wrap up, I'd love for you to give some advice to somebody who's watching right now who's still sick and suffering. What's the first thing they should do right now to uh to get the help they need?

[00:43:13]Well, look, there's nothing I can say to make somebody want to get sober.

[00:43:26]There's nothing I could say to keep somebody sober who doesn't want to stay sober.

[00:43:32]There's nothing I can say to keep somebody sober who might not even think they don't want to stay sober, but don't want to stay sober.

[00:43:44]The four-letter word that has changed my life and continues to change my life is help.

[00:43:53]It's the best four-letter word out there. Help is something that every single human being needs way more than they think they need it. And it is the one thing that we human beings have the hardest time asking for.

[00:44:08]Help is the key.

[00:44:10]Help is the answer because we do not do things alone. Well, you might think you do.

[00:44:20]You might have had some a few wins, but typically it takes an army for the big wins. And sobriety is a big win.

[00:44:33]Asking for help is not weak. Asking for help is absolute success. Every time you ask for help, it's a successful decision. Every time.

[00:44:47]Every single time. I've yet to come up against a time where I've asked somebody for help and felt like I've taken two step back, two steps back.

[00:45:00]And sometimes the people that you ask for help from aren't going to be the silver bullet. Sometimes you're going to ask somebody for help. They're going to come on board. You're going to find out that that's the wrong person and you're going to have to remove that person.

[00:45:12]>> But getting comfortable asking for help, you're not going to We don't do this alone. We just don't do it alone. So ask for help and then listen back earlier in the podcast where I listed out that structure.

[00:45:27]The structure is, you know, you take alcohol, alcohol, and drugs away from a person that has addiction, that person still has all of the drive and the ambition that they had for the drugs and the alcohol and the gambling.

[00:45:42]They still have it. It's part of them.

[00:45:43]It's who they are. They're ambitious, completely extreme, loyal human beings. You strip away the drugs and the alcohol and you give them a better channel to deploy that ambition, that drive, that loyalty, that commitment, the ability to commit. When you're a drug addict, you know what commitment is. It is. You know very well what commitment is.

[00:46:15]Take away the drugs. Take away the alcohol.

[00:46:19]That human knows what it means to be a committed person.

[00:46:23]Put them on the right path.

[00:46:27]You've just created a monster in any area of life.

[00:46:32]I can honestly say today very few things scare me.

[00:46:38]I'm not scared because I now know that I've got the ability to go go all in.

[00:46:49]That's what you get when you take alcohol and drugs away from an addict. You know, >> I can relate to a lot of that. I appreciate you coming out today.

[00:47:02]>> Yeah, man. Thanks for having me. I'm gonna attach uh in the description of this episode, I'm gonna attach Michael's link, social media, uh Creatures of Habit website. Um if you're struggling, as always, you can reach out to me, you can reach out to Michael. Um and yeah, thank you so much for coming on today. Appreciate it. This is awesome.