Bessent LIVE: Scott Bessent Drops Russian Oil Bombshell: Country-Specific Waivers Possible

Added: 2026-06-07

[00:00:00]refunds and bigger paychecks and permanent permanent progrowth tax policy. And it will make it easier to build, to invest, produce, and hire in America. Our economy is in the middle of a historic historic construction boom that means new jobs and opportunities for workingclass Americans. Factory activity grew every month this year and reached its highest level since May of 2022.

[00:00:34]Equipment investment rose 17% and investment in intellectual property rose 11% in the first quarter of this year. In the same period, economic growth was driven by two things: investment and exports.

[00:00:55]Republican policies are making investing in America a solid bet for companies after decades decades of America's manufacturer manufacturing power declining.

[00:01:10]The president's tax and trade policies work hand and glove to fuel the economic investment that creates great paying jobs. Reciprocal trade agreements have secured 10 trillion in investment commitments in leading industries, open new markets formally hostile to US exports, and made our trading relationships fairer for American workers, farmers, manufacturers, and producers. American producers exported just last year a record 3.4 4 trillion trillion dollars and and in the first three months of this year first three months of this year US exports were over 300 billion each month. That's the highest in 250 years of our country's history. America is becoming less dependent on China. A goal long promised by Washington politicians with no actual progress until President Trump. Our trade deficit with China fell 32% last year to the lowest level since 2004.

[00:02:33]The Chinese recently agreed to purchase at least $17 billion annually in US agriculture products through 2028 alongside more Boeing airplanes.

[00:02:46]President Trump and Republicans in Congress repealed the dimminimous privilege that mostly benefited Chinese companies shipping products undercutting American producers and manufacturers.

[00:03:01]Our economic security is a cornerstone of our national security and therefore must not be abused by bad actors. Yet, this committee's investigation into US-based nonforprofits revealed many are funded or operate under the influence of foreign countries like China and they sow division and chaos in our communities that weakens America and strengthens foreign adversaries. Tax exempt status is a privilege, not a right.

[00:03:41]We have called on the IRS to investigate and if necessary revoke the tax exempt status of 11 different organizations who are the focus of our investigation. It is critical that the IRS take close look at taxexempt organizations with documented histories of activity that destabilizes society and supports terrorism.

[00:04:09]Looking ahead, our tax policies must continue to make our economy the most competitive for innovative sectors of the future, including digital assets and the over 60 million Americans who own cryptocurrency.

[00:04:27]America needs clear modern tax rules to ensure we remain the crypto capital of the world.

[00:04:36]Next week, we will be holding a legislative hearing, excuse me, on policies that offer solutions to pressing issues surrounding digital asset taxation.

[00:04:50]Mr. Secretary, excuse me. Um, I know you are a strong advocate for ensuring Main Street shares in the prosperity of our economy and I look forward to hearing how Treasury is implementing the working families tax cuts so that Americans who power our economy, workers, small businesses, farmers, manufacturers, and producers and innovators have a brighter future. I now recognize the gentleman from Massachusetts, the ranking member.

[00:05:20]>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Mr. Secretary, welcome. As always, the chairman made the point that this is the best committee in Congress that's likely to be one of the few things we agree upon this morning, as all know, and you hold, as I pointed out in the past, one of the most important jobs in the world as a successor to Alexander Hamilton. We hope that there'll be some explanations this morning about the failures of many of the economic promises that were made by the Trump administration.

[00:05:51]70% of the American people disagree with the economic direction that the country has taken. Last time you visited with us, Americans were being socked with price hikes because of the tariffs where you and I met in front of the Supreme Court that day when the Supreme Court took and heard the oral arguments because of the big ugly bill. We fought on our side every step of the way, knowing and predicting what was to come.

[00:06:20]higher costs, millions kicked off of health care, children going hungry, all in service to the wealthiest amongst us.

[00:06:29]Despite this, a rosy picture was painted about the Trump economy and what it might deliver. It's safe to say that almost on every front, those predictions from the administration have been wrong.

[00:06:40]Workers and families are being forced to stretch their dollars further every day.

[00:06:44]And the pain so clearly stems from many of these projects, including what was supposed to be a sessation of endless wars. We've watched the price hikes that that are coming because of this tariff regime.

[00:06:59]And during testimony last year, you suggested that the Trump policies would lift the working and middle class and reinvigorate American manufacturing. It was stated that take-home pay and wages would increase.

[00:07:10]You relied upon consumer confidence data to tout the strength of the economy. You pointed out that inflation was improving and that costs including food, energy, and shelter would be coming down. And now we have a chance to reflect upon what actually happened, including the slow walking of the tariff refunds that are due.

[00:07:32]Families are forced to shell out $1,700 more last year to cover many of the costs that were estimated to be rosy here not that long ago. Between the tariffs, the Iran war, prices are rising faster than they have in years. Last month, the inflation rate up ate up paychecks. Appreciated the chairman's position on pointing out that there has been a routine of 3% increases, but when you're paying more for everything else, that quickly goes away. The price of a tank of gasoline in many places has gone up by almost 50%. That's a staggering amount. And despite the bullish assessment in January that economic growth would hit 5.4%, 4% in the fourth quarter. That growth came in at approximately 1 half a percent. Not even a full percentage point. That's not spin. Those are facts. The administration continu continues to argue that down is up and to convince people that their pain should be subjugated to patriotic causes.

[00:08:34]Whether celebrating higher credit card delinquencies on households, they're spending more every day because of the economic policies of the administration.

[00:08:44]As if the $1700 to cover the tariffs wasn't enough, estimates are now showing that the war in Iran has already cost households another $750.

[00:08:53]And while an extra $200 in gas costs might be might not be a lot for some folks in the administration, it sure is for a lot of working families. I'm sure we're going to hear that there are many attempts to save the economy by touting the refunds. Those refunds were eaten up almost overnight because of increases in gasoline prices. Tax refunds fell short of the promises by 65% and have been completely wiped out, as I noted, by price hikes. The president's attention remains everywhere. But what's most important, as he said, he's not thinking about people's financial situations.

[00:09:29]He tends to be focused on more vanity projects, including a ballroom and an arch and painting the reflecting pool.

[00:09:36]We are now ready for a cage fight on the south lawn and perhaps a $250 bill with his photograph on it. We look at what has happened recently with a slush fund that was created and our Republican colleagues continue to go wobbly on their defense, perhaps not understanding how this is playing with the American people. I know the administration has been busy trying this week to explain all of it, telling members of Congress that the slush fund is dead. Apparently not consistent with what the president offered but 24 hours ago. Let's be real.

[00:10:12]The $250 bill maybe might be needed because of the price hikes that are coming to the American people. Americans have made this very clear.

[00:10:22]77% say the policies have increased the cost of living and more than half say it's worse than they can previously remember. Consumer sentiment is currently at a record low. The savings rate for American has dropped to 2.6% cut in half in just a year. When we look at this economy, we see failure upon failure. The policies that have been proposed have really not worked for average Americans. Families are getting crushed and we would suggest today that a new course of action needs to be taken. Republicans have made it clear that they don't want to put a stop to the chaos, but Democrats are unwavering in our fight for American families to lower cost and to end the harm that is being done. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[00:11:11]>> Thank you, Ranking Member. Today's sole witness is United States Secretary of the Treasury um Scott Bessant. The committee has received your written testimony and it will be part of the formal hearing record. Secretary Bessant, you have five minutes to deliver your remarks and you may begin when you're ready.

[00:11:27]>> Good. Chairman Smith, Ranking Member Neil, and members of the committee.

[00:11:32]Thank you for convening today's hearing.

[00:11:34]I'm grateful for this opportunity to discuss President Trump's 2027 budget, which builds on this administration's progress and unleashing a new era of economic expansion. I last appeared before this committee just a few weeks before the House passed the working families tax cuts. So, on the heels of the most successful filing season in IRS history, I'd be remiss if I did not begin by thanking the committee for helping to deliver this once in a generation bill to the president's desk.

[00:12:02]This tax day under President Trump, we celebrated how much more money hardworking Americans kept, not how much the government took. Over 62 million tax returns claimed at least one of President Trump's signature new tax cuts, no tax on tips, no tax in overtime, deductibility of American car interest loans, and an enhanced deduction for low and middle inome seniors. All told, the average refund increased by over 11% with total refunds increasing by 18%. But as important as what the legislation achieves, it is what it prevented. If opponents of the working families tax cuts had had their way, our economy would have absorbed the largest the largest tax hike in its history, over $5 trillion. 90% of American taxpayers would have seen their standard deduction slashed while 40 million families would have seen their child tax credit hedged. Instead, this committee held the line and the American people had a better tax day because of it. Notably, President Trump's progrowth policies don't stop at putting more money back in the pockets of working and middle-class families. They extend to placing the American dream within closer reach of their children. For context, nearly 40% of Americans have no exposure to US equities, no stakes in the companies they helped to build. Trump accounts represent a profound reimagining of that arrangement. They will ensure that every American child can benefit from private ownership and compound growth. that every American child, in short, is born a shareholder.

[00:13:33]To date, nearly six million Trump accounts have been opened with 1.4 million eligible for the $1,000 seed contribution from Treasury. Of course, as his tax cuts deliver res relief for working-class Americans, President Trump's economic agenda is bolstered by two other distinct but reinforcing levers, trade and deregulation. Let me briefly address both of these in turn.

[00:13:58]First, the president is undeterred in his determination to open markets for US goods and services while rebuilding US manufacturing capacity. Over the 12 months ending March 2026, the trade deficit for goods declined by 370 billion compared to the same time frame ending March 2025. The economy has added 313,000 net new private sector jobs and 13,000 manufacturing jobs in the past two months. Firm capital expenditures rose at an annual rate of over 17% in the final quarter and companies are investing trillions to build and expand here at home. American industry is winning again to the benefit of American workers. A whole of government approach, meanwhile, is coupling our manufacturing revival with a great regulatory reset.

[00:14:48]Properly calibrated regulation is essential for economic growth, capital formation, employment, and higher wages.

[00:14:56]So, at the outset of this administration, President Trump set the ambitious benchmark of slashing 10 existing regulations before issuing a new one. In 2025, we shattered that goal with a ratio of 129 to1. And as a result, the regulatory actions generated more savings last year than in those of the prior Trump administration combined.

[00:15:17]Separately, any one of these initiatives on trade, tax cuts, and deregulation would be substantial. Taken together, they are transformative. Before President Trump took office, our trading partners exploited America's markets, our regulatory state smothered businesses, and our tax code was poised to punish workers and job creators.

[00:15:38]today. His policies are driving lower taxes, bigger paychecks, and broader prosperity. So, I thank this committee for its partnership in this critical work, and I look forward to building upon our strides through the president's budget for the year ahead. Thank you.

[00:15:53]>> Thank you. We'll now proceed to the question and answer session. Mr. Secretary, yesterday in the Senate, you received a lot of questions from the Democrats over the anti-weaponization fund, which acting attorney general Todd Blanch said on the record is dead. You also told the Senate Finance Committee over and over and over and over a few more times again that you cannot discuss the settlement or the case due to ongoing litigation.

[00:16:27]Can you please set the record straight right at the top of this hearing so members so members do not need to use their limited time asking you questions you cannot answer. What is the status of the fund, the settlement agreement, and what part did IRS CEO Mr. Bizinano play in both?

[00:16:50]Good. Thank you for this question, Mr. Chairman. I said yesterday that Einstein's definition of insanity is asking the same question over and over again and expecting a different answer.

[00:17:01]Let me be clear, as we've done throughout this matter, the Department of Treasury is following the direction of the Department of Justice. Acting Attorney General Todd Blanch testified on Tuesday that the government will not be moving forward with the fund. We intend to comply with that direction and Attorney General Blanch's direction. I do not have any details into what that means at this time, but I will note that even the acting attorney general Blanch's statement Tuesday, this matter is still subject to ongoing litigation.

[00:17:31]So, I'm unable to comment further on it.

[00:17:34]That means I'm also not able to discuss any part of the settlement agreement. As with all department litigation, the Department of the Treasury and the IRS are represented by the Justice Department. So any additional questions about the settlement or the fund should be directed to acting attorney general Todd Blanch. To your point about Mr. Biziano, while I cannot speak on his behalf, I will note that the settlement agreement calls for the United States to issue an apology to the plaintiffs for among other things leaking their tax returns. Mr. Chairman, President Trump is a great American who has endured over 10 years of harassment and weaponization from all level of government. No American should be targeted for political reasons.

[00:18:16]>> Thank you, Secretary, for starting out with that information. This tax filing season was the most historic because of the tax relief delivered to workingclass families through the working families tax cuts. How much total tax relief did Americans get just this tax season?

[00:18:36]>> Approximately 325 billion, Mr. Chairman. And how much did the average individual tax refund increase?

[00:18:46]>> The average refund increased by more than 11%. But that does not that does not reflect the dollar value. As the ranking member said likes to say we overpromised and underdelled. That is incorrect because so many people owed taxes last year that the dollar increase was actually much larger going from negative to positive. As I travel the country, I have so many taxpayers who thank me because they had to pay last year and they got a refund this year.

[00:19:15]>> So, how many taxpayers claimed at least one of President Trump's priorities of no tax on tips, no tax on overtime, no tax on social security, or the auto loan interest.

[00:19:27]>> Approximately 62 million filers are about 44%, Mr. Chairman. And so what percent of tax filers who received a tax cut in filing season earned less than $100,000?

[00:19:42]>> Just over 70%, sir.

[00:19:44]>> 70%.

[00:19:45]>> 70.

[00:19:47]>> So what percent of waiters and other tipped workers who received a tax cut thanks to the no tax on tips earned less than $100,000.

[00:19:58]>> 90%.

[00:20:00]>> 90 >> 90. That's That's helping people that need it the most. Funny, Democrats always claim always claim that the working families tax cuts were for billionaires.

[00:20:12]Mr. Secretary, I I'm sure you know a lot of billionaires. Do you know any billionaires that was able to use the no tax on tips deduction?

[00:20:23]>> I have plenty of billionaires I give tips to, but not monetary tips, sir. Do you know of any billionaires that was able to use the no tax on overtime deduction?

[00:20:33]>> Uh, no sir.

[00:20:35]>> Absolutely not. But you'll hear all day today that this tax cut was for the billionaires.

[00:20:43]But the evidence proves differently. And so I I greatly appreciate that. I'm sure we will hear about inflation in the economy today too. And so at this point, at this point during President Biden's term, what was the core inflation rate?

[00:21:02]>> 6.2% which led us to the worst inflation in 49 years, sir.

[00:21:07]>> Absolutely. And was the highest under Biden? What was the highest?

[00:21:13]>> 6.6.

[00:21:14]>> 6.6.

[00:21:16]>> September of 22.

[00:21:17]>> And so what is core inflation this very second?

[00:21:21]>> 2.8%. 8%.

[00:21:22]>> 2.8%.

[00:21:24]But at this time during the Biden administration, it was 6.2.

[00:21:29]>> Yes, sir.

[00:21:30]>> Wow. You wouldn't you wouldn't think that was the case based on the the rhetoric coming from the other side, but that's that's what we're going to get.

[00:21:40]The working families tax cuts renewed and revamped the opportunity zone programs to ensure that rural communities get their share of the benefits. The law provides incentives that will drive an estimated h 100red billion in new investments into rural communities, helping small businesses and working families and underserved, often overlooked areas of the country.

[00:22:09]How is the Trump administration implementing this improved opportunity zone program to ensure ensure rural communities that I represent are in fact benefiting in the way Congress intended?

[00:22:23]And how is Treasury utilizing the new transparency requirements within the program to reinforce this effort to target those underserved communities?

[00:22:35]>> Mr. Mr. Chairman, as someone who grew up in a rural community, I'm very excited by the prospect of these opportunity zones uh the being available there. I I think it is new and important seeing the success and I'm also excited by the permanence. And I would also point out uh that many members from the other side of the aisle have called Treasury. They concerned about losing opportunity zones in their districts or states in the case of senators and I pointed out to them that they voted against them but we will work with them on these opportunity zones. uh Congress wanted to reach the uh all all levels and we are working on transparency requirements they which are critical because to make sure that the investment is reaching the rural communities, small businesses and local projects.

[00:23:25]>> Thank you. On January 5th, 2026, through the hard work of both you and your staff, the Treasury Department secured a sidebyside agreement that largely exempts US headquartered multinational enterprises from the OECD's income inclusion rule and undertaxed payments rule. This is a major major win for US tax sovereignty. How confident are you that this agreement will be respected and fully fully implemented by OECD members particularly in the European Union? Uh I I believe that we have the tools necessary that if our sovereignty is not respected uh to counteract any failures to enact this and I believe this is important because with this the money comes into the US Treasury rather than foreign treasuries. Mr. turn.

[00:24:26]>> What I would say, Secretary, you can count on us as working handin glove as allies because Congress can also move legislation to make sure that they honor this. And we're willing to do that if they do not honor your commitment.

[00:24:41]>> And Mr. Chairman, I will point out that my friend Senator Widen complimented the side by side the when he was back in Oregon recently.

[00:24:50]>> It's great to hear. What monitor what monitoring has Treasury put in place to ensure that US companies are not still subjected to the discriminatory treatment?

[00:25:01]>> Uh we we frequently meet with the companies and we have active engagement with the OECD on this matter.

[00:25:10]>> Thank you. I now recognize the ranking member.

[00:25:13]>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. a reminder that members of the committee, they get to decide how to allocate their five minutes as long as they're within the framework of the questions that they wish to ask. So, Mr. Secretary, were you or any employee of Treasury informed of the settlement that the attorney general entered into with the plan of the fund?

[00:25:34]>> Again, Congressman, there's ongoing litigation and as I said, I'm unable to answer.

[00:25:40]>> Fine. So, I think we could agree upon this. There were 400,000 taxpayers that had their tax information leaked when Charles Little John released that information. We all agree no citizen should have their taxpayer information leaked. That's a clear violation. But if we follow the logic of what has been proposed, then the suggestion would be that these 400,000 people would be never subject to any sort of IRS oversight.

[00:26:10]>> Again, I'm unable to comment on that.

[00:26:12]Okay.

[00:26:14]Okay. So, let me go back to part of the statistical data that's been ga gathered with Barnstable, Massachusetts, which is a central hub on Cape Cod for commercial and transportation activity. They rely upon tourist dollars. It's a big deal. Over the last year, there's been a 54% decrease in Canadian tourists. We're sloww walking the tariff refunds. You and I were there as I reminded the the audience today when the Supreme Court heard those arguments and the suggestion was that the tax refunds were going to proceed expeditiously.

[00:26:53]That is not happening. There have been arguments that somehow that they've been slowwalked on purpose because they did cost $166 billion which would come from revenue that previously had been allocated in Las Vegas. Those who fly into the Harry Reid airport, 4.9 million people flew in last year. That's down by 12%.

[00:27:23]The positions that we have taken on the tariffs, the positions that we have taken on trade have really been inconsistent with previous presidents and previous administrations. We understand how tariffs might be used to penalize an adversary, but the application of these tariffs are not working for the American family because of the price increases that are being experienced, particularly in the agricultural states where we can see where much of the political turmoil is now playing out.

[00:27:50]Ground beef is up by 20%, as I noted earlier. Gasoline 51%, airfares have spiked by 20%. And everywhere that we turn, there's a price hike because of the economic policies that the president has embraced.

[00:28:06]Inflation has hit 3.8%.

[00:28:09]We've watched how now perhaps we're going to change the independence of the Federal Reserve Board for the purpose of complying with some political suggestions.

[00:28:19]Let me suggest here that we think that the independence of the Federal Reserve Board and in fact the independence of the former SEC the former chairman of that board helped to guide us through a very rocky period of time. We watched how that service was denigrated time and again despite the fact that it was an honest patriotic effort that was made by that treasury I'm sorry that uh chairman to get us through again a very very difficult period of time. But if we don't like the outcome with the consumer price index, we get rid of the forecaster. If we don't like the result of what the Federal Reserve Board has said, then we threaten and intimidate the chairman of the Federal Reserve Board. The argument has been since your last visit that lowering cost was something that we all embraced, but there's a fundamental acknowledgement and it is not happening. I cited uh a previous statistic that I think remains very compelling this morning. 77% of the American people disagree right now with the economic positions that are being embraced by the administration. With that, I yield back my time.

[00:29:24]>> Thank you, Mr. Buchanan.

[00:29:27]>> Thank you for being here today, Mr. Secretary. Passing the working family tax cuts was a major win for all Americans. In addition to the record tax refunds that millions of Americans have received, I'm especially excited about the the law as it pertains to small business. 100% bonus depreciation for business investment will boost the economic growth in manufacturing by encouraging small business to invest in America. Someone that's been in business for a lot of years, I can tell you the reality is very much the case. In addition, the permanent 199A small business deduction will make it easier for small businesses to create jobs and reinvest in their corporations or operations. More than anything else, I'm excited about the fact that we made a lot of this permanent. It'll make a huge difference uh going forward, and it has already. Working families tax cuts are ensuring that American businesses can thrive and grow uh in the economy. I had the good fortune of being chairman of the Florida Chamber. We had 130,000 businesses and these tax things I can tell you make a big difference. And the guy who's Mark who's CEO made that reference to me many times.

[00:30:41]Mr. Secretary, the small businesses in my district tell me 100% bonus depreciation is so important that that decision is key to their buying equipment and other things. What's your thoughts on that or your experience on the bonus depreciation part?

[00:30:59]Congressman, I I believe that the bonus depreciation, the full the full deductibility of the equipment is one of the greatest driving forces we are seeing in in our manufacturing and in fact our main street revival. And I think equally important is the permanence.

[00:31:21]This the Republican Congress made this permanent. So great certainty and the 20% pass through rate is also made permanent is giving small business permanence. And >> can you touch on 199A? That's a big uh thing for a lot of people in the district. It levels the playing field with the corporations where they got cut 35 to 21 or whatever or 20. But this will give that 20% will make a big difference. But I wanted to get your thoughts and what you're seeing.

[00:31:53]>> Yes sir. It gives the average small business about $7,000 more per year. And the small business deduction cuts taxes for 8 million small business owners by 4,600. And uh again, what is important here is the certainty and the permanence. It allows the small businesses to hire, to invest, and plan for the future.

[00:32:17]And then let me just touch on in my district being in Florida, we have a lot of obviously seniors, one of the I think the fifth most seniors uh in the country in terms of that and they're excited about this cut. I think it's 200,000 seniors that I have in my district, but the number is a huge number across the country. Where is that at today? And I think more importantly to me or one of the big things is to making sure we're talking to a lot of our seniors because most of them are taking advantage. And I my sense of it is not all of them are taking advantage. What are we doing to communicate with the seniors that haven't taken advantage of the opportunity?

[00:32:53]>> Uh Congressman, I was just down at the Villages in Florida, the large retirement community, not in the United States, but in the world, and I cannot tell you the enthusiastic reception that the uh them being able to keep most of their social security has made. And the the these are not the wellto-do people.

[00:33:15]Uh maybe at the villages, but in in general that when we saw the senior deduction, 68% of the filers made less than $100,000 and 96% of the filers, 96% make less than $200,000.

[00:33:30]>> Yeah. all for many years I'd go to these hearings or different meetings that we'd be involved in many times with senior organizations and they all always complained or thought about when are we going to address we've paid taxes once on social security we got to pay it again so that's a big deal but I just want to make sure we're doing everything we can to communicate with him and so they can take advantage of it most have but there's many that haven't um and uh but thanks for your leadership and all you've done for the country >> good thank you sir and we Our Treasury is working with Social Security Administration uh to make sure everyone is taking advantage of this.

[00:34:07]>> With that, I yield back.

[00:34:09]>> Thank you, Mr. Doggin.

[00:34:11]>> During your tenure as a Treasury Secretary, has the IRS recommended that any taxpayer be granted immunity from an audit for their taxes?

[00:34:19]>> Uh again, one portion of that is the under litigation. So, I'm not able to.

[00:34:26]>> Yes, sir. isn't a question of being not able, it's being not want to. But my question is, as I said, thank you sir, there is litigation.

[00:34:33]>> Reserving my time, my question to you again is >> definition of insanity.

[00:34:37]>> In the ordinary practice of the Treasury Department, has there ever been a recommendation that a taxpayer be granted immunity from an audit of their taxes?

[00:34:48]>> Sorry, what was that?

[00:34:50]>> Same question. Has the IRS recommended that any taxpayer be granted immunity from an audit of their taxes?

[00:34:56]>> Again, I'm unable to answer that.

[00:34:58]>> You can answer it. You refuse to answer.

[00:35:00]Can you tell the American people in the history of the Treasury Department, has there ever been a taxpayer who's been recommended to have uh immunity from an audit of their taxes?

[00:35:11]>> Has there ever been a taxpayer who had his tax returns released, his family, and every employes?

[00:35:18]>> Let me ask you, sir, that you say you'reing the president. Thank you. I reserve my employees today. I I >> maintaining my time and since you refuse to answer, let me ask you since you say you're following the advice of the attorney general, the former criminal defense attorney for Mr. Trump, as you know, the attorney general cannot compromise a tax dispute unless it's referred to him from the IRS for prosecution or defense. Have you ever been involved in any way in a decision to refer a tax dispute to the attorney general? Uh again, I cannot comment on that.

[00:35:51]>> You can't comment. Your argument here that you can't comment in this case makes as much sense as President Trump saying that he cannot. I understand you want to talk over me, but you're not answering the question because you may have defined insanity by referring to Einstein, but your appearance here today and yesterday in the Senate defines deception. And that's what you're doing to the American people. Isn't it correct sir that the financial management service within the treasury department must give approval before any payment can be made from the judgment fund?

[00:36:21]>> Uh sir the we administer the payments.

[00:36:25]>> Yes sir. You you give approval to it.

[00:36:28]>> No sir we we administer them.

[00:36:30]>> You you make a a sign off on them uh being >> we we administer them just like if you tell your bank to wire money does not say do not pay you shouldn't pay your visa bill. Did Brian Morsy, who had been only confirmed by the Senate a few months earlier as Treasury General Counsel, uh, do a good job for you?

[00:36:50]>> Can you answer that just with a yes or no?

[00:36:53]>> Yes.

[00:36:54]>> Yes, he did. And as you know, uh, he abruptly resigned rather than be associated with the CD Trump slush fund deal and didn't sign off on anything.

[00:37:03]Can you pledge to the committee? I'm asking you a question, sir, if you you'd listen to it. Can you pledge to the committee that you will assure that no retaliation occurs against the career IRS employees who wrote the 25page memo asking the Department of Justice to halt action on this outrageous audit immunity deal?

[00:37:23]>> Uh sir, we follow the law.

[00:37:25]>> Okay. Well, will you follow the law and assuring the committee that you won't retaliate against those courageous career employees?

[00:37:32]>> We always follow the law. What's involved here, sir, is the most corrupt deal uh in American history. Truly incredible that a president of the United States could come in and sue the people of the United States for $10 billion and then walk off with an immunity deal that no other American has ever had, nor could they receive. And to get that immunity deal from his former criminal defense attorney, who he he has appointed as acting attorney general.

[00:38:00]This is the kind of corruption that would permit the Trump family, if the Wall Street Journal is correct, that Trump earned5 billion dollars uh from his crypto bills last year, to be totally to to pay him or not pay him as he feels it's smart to do. uh he made no complaint about the audits in his petition and yet suddenly out of nowhere he's granted immunity uh in what uh some have said uh in a report would be a $100,000 benefit $100 million benefit to him. Uh you know that uh there is a responsibility of your department to do audits of the president every year. A report of this committee indicates that only one was begun during the first term. Uh what are you doing to asssure that those annual audits occur this year? The first term, three years, nothing. Has anything been done this year to fulfill that responsibility?

[00:38:56]>> Again, sir, due to IRS IRS rule 6103, which prohibits the discussion of taxpayer information, >> it doesn't the uh >> it doesn't prohibit. This is how we got there with Mr. Little John.

[00:39:09]>> Yes, sir. It doesn't prohibit you indicating what you are doing to assure complicity with the law >> and with the practice long-standing practice of the Internal Revenue Service. So, I think we can assume from your deception today that nothing's being done and this president is being treated in a way that no other president, no other American citizen has ever been treated. I would agree with incredibly corrupt deal.

[00:39:30]>> I would I would he is being treated the way no other person has ever been treated.

[00:39:36]>> Mr. Smith, >> thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Mr. secretary for being here today. Um, I think these conversations are certainly uh enlightening and uh maybe sometimes even entertaining to hear some of the uh items that are brought up uh if it weren't so sad. But uh I appreciate many of my colleagues whom I respect uh speaking out against tariffs.

[00:40:00]Let me remind folks that after all the criticism of President Trump during his first term relating to tariffs, a few other things too, but in this case tariffs, uh, unified democratic control for two years resulted in no action on tariffs and quite honestly disengagement on trade altogether that I think brought disrespect to our country and and I think damaging uh in in many ways. Uh but I'll I'll move on here to talk more about tax uh and certainly the Treasury's recent inter agency agreement with the Department of Education to address the ongoing cabinet ongoing t costs to taxpayers associated with the Biden administration student loan policies. Last year I joined several colleagues in urging Treasury to resend the waiver which prevented collection on defaulted student loans. So this agreement takes an important step toward restoring accountability and protecting taxpayers. I certainly appreciate your your partnership in the effort. You know, the working families tax cut bill uh w was very productive, certainly teed up by the tax cuts and jobs act from the first Trump term. And uh it's interesting, you know, in the meantime, we had a bipartisan bill where we had many of my colleagues both sides of the aisle vote for so many things from the tax cuts and jobs act. And then when we even added more middle class advantages, whether it's Trump accounts, whether it's school choice, whether it's the tax relief for overtime, uh likewise for uh seniors, I mean, the list goes on.

[00:41:40]But because there was no chance that President Biden would would sign that, um they they voted against it. So when when there was a chance that President Biden would could have signed a bill, now it didn't get through the Senate obviously, but when when that were seemed to be the uh the situation, they opposed it. Um so I I I just uh get a little frustrated when we have we can have good discussions here in this room and uh legislate. I think it's important to note that there were so many inversions happening leading up to the Obama administration that even President Obama advocated for lowering the corporate tax rate. Now, he he advocated a rate that didn't have enough support here. Uh President Trump came in, he advocated for a considerably lower rate, and we legislated basically right in the middle. And and it proved very effective economically, proved effective for growing revenues. uh and growing the because the economy grows. So, uh anyway, I'm I'm excited about the Trump accounts because I think those are going to be consequential, especially teaming up with the federal scholarship tax credit. appreciate my colleague Blake Moore working with me to make permanent the the Trump accounts because I I think they are going to be very much appreciated by a lot of folks few years down the road especially but I think uh e even in the near term as people start thinking more about their financial future. Now, a lot's been said about various things and and uh certainly the president, but I I know that there's been quite a bit of chatter from the other side of the aisle regarding the president's investments. I'm just wondering if you could set the record straight on this and explain how there have been mischaracterations mischaracterizations during during the process and mischaracter characterizations of the law perhaps.

[00:43:35]>> Yeah, I I want to be very clear on this.

[00:43:38]They have President Trump's investment holdings are maintained exclusively in fully discretionary accounts managed by independent third-party institutions who have sole and exclusive authority over all investment decisions including asset allocation, trading, rebalancing and portfolio management. They receive no advanced notice of trades, cannot alter or override the manager strategies or or models. And un unlike Congress, this was intentionally designed to maintain a clear separation between President Trump and the independent thirdparty investment managers overseeing his account.

[00:44:16]Thank you, Mr. Secretary. And and let me just close by saying that the American people are wanting us to have good conversations, thoughtful conversations, reasonable conversations, and and I think thoughtful and reasonable individuals know that what we did with our tax policy has been good. Thank you for your role in that. and I I want us to work together for the for the betterment of of our economy moving forward just as the the American people would expect us to do. Thank you. I yield back.

[00:44:48]>> Thank you, Mr. Thompson.

[00:44:49]>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, thank you for being with us today. Uh you were here a year ago. You came before the committee and you closed your testimony by saying the president's bold leadership had laid the foundation for what you called a golden age economy.

[00:45:07]More recently, he said the economy could grow by at least 3.5% this year and that Americans would see a non-inflationary boom. Mr. Secretary, I've searched hard to find constituents in my district who believe that this economy is golden. In fact, many of them are struggling more today than they were the last time you were in front of this committee.

[00:45:33]Personal savings are shrinking.

[00:45:35]disposable income is down and families are paying more and more for basic necessities. So, I would like to ask you a couple of yes or no questions about this golden economy. Uh, electricity bills are up 8.5%.

[00:45:51]Is that golden?

[00:45:52]>> Uh, sir, you can ask >> yes or no.

[00:45:55]>> You can ask question. You can't tell me how to answer it.

[00:45:59]>> So, >> okay, let me put it this way, Mr. Secretary, because you're obviously not here to answer questions here. It's my time, Mr. Secretary. It's my time.

[00:46:11]>> Health insurance costs are up 26%.

[00:46:14]That's not golden. Child care costs are up 9%. That's not golden. Gas prices are up nearly 50%. That's not golden.

[00:46:23]Grocery prices are still straining family budgets. That's not golden. Mr. Secretary, working families don't feel like they're living through a golden age. And while HR1 may have delivered modest tax cuts for some Americans, many families are seeing those savings wiped out by higher costs everywhere they shop. Is that what this administration considers a golden age? And that's rhetorical, so you don't even have to try and talk over me.

[00:46:55]>> Secretary, Mr. Secretary, what should I tell my constituents when they ask about these costs? Farmers who are being hit by high costs of fuel and fertilizers, who can't get their product to market because of the war in Iran. Tell them it's golden.

[00:47:15]>> Uh, you should tell them that we have had 2.6% economic growth since President Trump took office despite the Democratic >> These farmer these farmers are pretty smart, Mr. Secretary. Well, the people in California, one person >> reclaiming my time. These farmers are pretty smart, Mr. Secretary, and they're not going to fall for that line.

[00:47:35]>> I understand your unwillingness to testify and answer questions about details regarding the IRS settlement with the Trump administration due to ongoing litigation. But at the end of the day, your department, the Treasury Department, and specifically the IRS, is going to have to carry out its demands.

[00:47:56]And let me be very specific about what those demands are. The settlement says the IRS is prevented from raising any and all claims against the president with respect to any tax return filed before May 19th, 2026. So, Mr. Secretary, as the head of the Treasury Department, you will be in charge of carrying out the demands of this settlement. So, let me present a real uh true scenario for you. If on May 18th, President Trump files an amendment to his 2024 federal tax return, and the amendment says, quote, "I'm owed an extra $10 billion." That's the amount uh that he sued the IRS that I forgot to claim on my tax return. Is it your opinion that the settlement agreement signed by Todd Blanch, the acting attorney general and President Trump's former personal attorney, would require you to pay President Trump a billion dollars, no questions asked?

[00:49:00]>> Uh, we will follow Justice Department.

[00:49:03]>> Okay, you won't answer that either. Do you think this is something that the American people should know? How can you sit here and not provide any answers to the American people?

[00:49:13]>> Because it is astonishing to me that the president didn't know about this deal before it was signed. Of course, he knew about it. He directed it. So why not cash out on his get out of jail free card. As I read it, he can absolutely file an amendment to his tax return and claim a giant tax refund. and you have to sit there and watch while he robs the Treasury and more important while he robs the American people blind. That's as unacceptable as you refusing to answer questions posed to you by the members of this committee. I yield back.

[00:49:52]>> Mr. Kelly.

[00:49:53]>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh Mr. Secretary, thanks for being here. As you know, the beatings will continue until morale improves. This is the beginning of the Charles Dickens. Given that the Democratic House has a 17% approval rate, >> now I see why >> this is the opening of a Charles Dickens novel, is it not? So, it was the best of times, it was the worst of times. It was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epic of belief, it was the epic of increduly, it was a season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope. It was the winter of despair. How well that describes what we're going through. Uh I will remind my friends on the other side that we had doubledigit inflation uh in the prior administration. The the president inherited one of the worst situations he could possibly do. The cost of gasoline, by the way, in June of 2022 was the average was $516 a gallon.

[00:50:47]As of uh June 4th, it uh it's now $4.51 a gallon. So facts are a funny thing. uh use the ones that actually uh are true or bend them to anything you want. Uh what I really want to talk to you about though is part of what we did uh when we first did tax cuts and jobs act was something called opportunity zones. Um and I'm going to invite you to come to Erie, Pennsylvania.

[00:51:11]Erie, Pennsylvania was at one time a thriving city but fell on very very hard times.

[00:51:18]Uh but when we did the the tax cuts and tax cuts and jobs act with the opportunity zones, this is this encouraged private investment, not taxpayer dollars, but private investment going into areas where the government would have wasted its money and does often times uh but say to private investors, you know what, using the tax code, we're going to give you an opportunity to invest in something uh while other people would usually walk away from it. I got to tell you in Erie in Erie under the leadership of key stakeholders and local leaders such as the Erie Downtown Development Corporation in the strategy of Erie refocus plan, the city committed itself to a goal of revitalizing his downtown waterfront while building on its industrial heritage. Using opportunity zones as a catalyst, Erie has leveraged more than $40 million in private investment. This investment created 110 new residential units, revitalized more than 100,000 square feet of commercial space, restored eight historic properties and bought brought the grocery store to a neighborhood previously designated as a food desert. One of the things I I wanted to talk about because under this new plan, we decided, hey, you know what? We did some great jobs when it came to cities. Let's look at rural areas. So, what I'm going to ask you to do, if you would please come to Erie where you can see how these actually things work in living color to real people in real time, >> how we're revitalizing a community. Uh the job you've done is incredible. By the way, uh the only thing I question, what keeps you getting up in the morning and committing to things like this when you know all that work that you do, all that time that you spend, all your staff works to make it better for the American people, they help with this idea of it being a Republican idea, a Democrat idea. Why don't we just look like what's best for America? Well, the representative, first of all, uh I have heard that Erie is a poster child in a great way for opportunity zone. So, I look forward to coming and visit and I look forward to visiting the rural areas uh in in your district. And also, as I said earlier, uh many many representatives, senators from the other side of the aisle have called me to ask for guidance on opportunity zones. I pointed out that they voted against them, but that is why I come in to help the American people. We can overcome partisan differences that they voted against them. It is in statute now and we will make it work for all the American people.

[00:53:46]>> You know what? And I I I appreciate that. So, we'll get with you that because I have two friends in the Senate right now that represent Pennsylvania.

[00:53:52]They are sometimes what have been described as polar opposites. They're not. So, between Senator Federman and Senator McCormick, we have two people in the Senate now working together to do the best things that they can do for the state they represent and the nation that they work for. Uh I think if we could twist things around and unfortunately elections get in the way of us doing things that are actually uh beneficial to the American people, we we tend to to work on a parly a part a party spectrum rather than uh the people we represent.

[00:54:20]I as I said I represent threequarters of million people. Uh none of them are it's not an all red, it's not all blue. And in fact what discourages me is too many of our people who live in the area no longer have faith and they don't even register to vote. But please we're going to invite you. We're going to invite Senator Fedman, Senator McCormack. We will get people there to sit down with you. There is such a wealth of opportunity taking place right now. The figures don't lie. Sometimes the liars can figure, but figures don't lie. Thank you for doing what you're doing in your private life to walk away from that, to walk into this. When they first described it as a swamp, they had no idea how deep the swamp has become.

[00:54:57]Thank you for being here today and thank you for your dedication to the United States of America.

[00:55:01]>> Thank you, Mr. Larson.

[00:55:04]Thank you and thank you Secretary for uh joining us here today. It's always kind of a unusual when you start a hearing and are instructed what you can say or can't say in an open and free democracy.

[00:55:20]But uh having said that u you mentioned in your testimony core inflation a couple of times.

[00:55:30]What's the difference between core inflation and inflation?

[00:55:37]The many people believe or it is in general uh energy prices and food prices which are much more uh fastm moving and I would say that energy prices will roll down when this Iran conflict ends. So did is gasoline considered part of core inflation?

[00:56:01]>> Yes sir, it is. So those remarks core inflation reflects gasoline prices.

[00:56:09]>> Core inflation there reflects the underlying trend in inflation and whether that inflation has become endemic to the system as it did the during President Biden. Has the war in Iran have anything to do with u core inflation?

[00:56:28]Sir, does the war in Iran have anything to do with core inflation?

[00:56:36]>> You can't answer that either or is this a is that are we preluded from asking that?

[00:56:42]>> Well, I'm not sure what the question is.

[00:56:45]>> Does let me make it as simple as I can.

[00:56:47]Does the war in Iran >> are you with me? Uh >> has the war in Iran >> thus far >> caused ha have witnessed the rise in gas prices as it caused >> well again that is the regular inflation and gas prices have gone up which I believe will be temporary the core >> so gas prices have gone up but you believe they're temporary >> core inflation has dropped 5% since President Trump came to office >> gez you know when I'm home in my district I'm going to just tell those people, geez, you know what? You've missed this whole thing. Don't you understand core inflation? You guys are better off. I mean, these gas prices, I I don't know what you people are thinking out there. For God's sake, you know, they're just You should be doing cartwheels in the street over the price of gas. So, what is the administration's plan to lower gas prices?

[00:57:42]>> We've taken the many >> Are you in favor of eliminating the gas tax? Uh the we have moved to >> Are you in favor of eliminating the gas tax?

[00:57:52]>> We would like to work.

[00:57:53]>> Are you able to answer that or is that not answer?

[00:57:55]>> Well, if I'm not interrupted, I can congressman.

[00:57:57]>> Well, I'm waiting for your answer.

[00:58:00]>> We have moved we have asked Congress to move to eliminate the gas tax. That is done through statute.

[00:58:07]>> You have moved that. So, you're in favor of eliminating the gas tax?

[00:58:11]>> We we have asked for that. So we can join bipartisanly today because you're in favor to eliminate the gas tax.

[00:58:18]Again, the White House has asked for it, sir. They have. Why isn't it before the committee for a vote?

[00:58:26]I I don't run the agenda.

[00:58:29]Well, it's good to hear that uh we're we're in favor of something that we can work on bipartisanly that uh will help relieve uh people uh who need it the most. Um, forgive me, but people in my district aren't doing cartwheels over this economy. They haven't seen the impact that you claim that they're all receiving. Uh, people hear a lot of rhetoric, etc., but that doesn't pay their grocery bills, that doesn't pay their heating costs, that doesn't put fuel in their tanks, that doesn't help them get through the dayto-day grind of their lives. And so coming here and filling us with platitude and telling us how grateful we should be to the Trump administration for everything that it's done. Uh >> well, Congressman, >> is this war responsible for Congressman food at home is up 2.5% since President Trump took office?

[00:59:29]>> Are we at war, >> which is twice the war every year under the Biden administration? Are we at war currently?

[00:59:40]That the conflict has been halted.

[00:59:44]The conflict has been halted. I uh So we're not at war.

[00:59:48]>> Special military.

[00:59:49]>> So our military is not involved. We're not at war.

[00:59:52]>> Again, if if you would like for me to call the Secretary of War, I can ask.

[00:59:57]I'm the Secretary.

[00:59:57]>> So as part of the administration and as part of this, we're not at war. How in God's name if we can't answer any questions at all and I don't know maybe there are some special orders where we're not allowed to these these questions or not. We ought to make that clear. Are we at war or not? I'm asking as relation to the cost of going up with for oil and gas that hasn't risen. Has it risen because of the war?

[01:00:25]>> It did rise because of the conflict.

[01:00:27]Yes, sir.

[01:00:28]>> The the conflict.

[01:00:30]So that's what we call it.

[01:00:32]our people go into battle and lose their lives.

[01:00:36]>> Mr. Larson, your expired.

[01:00:40]>> Mr. Schweiker.

[01:00:42]>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And just um Mr. Secretary, you were already heading there. As everyone here, I'm sure knows um PCE there's actually um trimmed there's which Kevin um new secret or head of the Fed prefers. There's actually four or five ways you do balancing on the calculations. So if any of you want joint economic actually we have a whole chart of how those calculations work.

[01:01:08]>> Well no sir those were facts and they're inconvenient and food prices food at home has risen 2.5% since President Trump came into came into office at average more than 5% 5% the under the Biden Warren economy. And I've got a list here that President Trump posted, but no one wants to talk about it. Last year, all we heard was eggs, eggs, eggs.

[01:01:33]Eggs are down 90%. Avocados are down 19%. The >> Mr. Secretary, you will find, >> which is probably avocados probably more popular in the other side of the aisle.

[01:01:44]>> Yeah, Mr. Secretary, you'll find we often choose whatever number um works best for the social media posting we're going to do in an hour. So, welcome to Congress. um a a a conversation um we've been having actually with some of your staff and some of the ways mean staff is something that often never comes up but we we're going to have to understand it and find a better way to document it. um we calculate about 17% of the US economy now is in the taxexempt space and within that space um those who receive the benefit of tax exemption the basic concept is here's the community good you're doing for not having to pay taxes okay um there's something you're an expert on the 990 form that documents to the IRS to Treasury to Congress what is that community benefit benefit. Um, I know your team has been working on this.

[01:02:41]I know some of the IRS team, we've been working on it. Is there a way to come up with a much more robust universal form so we can understand are these taxexempt organizations meeting their societal obligation? And if they're not, we can help them meet that. But we don't have enough information today. Uh it's a great question question Congressman and there are many taxexempt organizations. A large part of the economy are hospitals and health care services. So we should look whether they are meeting the needs and are in fact nonprofits.

[01:03:19]But your question in terms of what is going on with these nonprofits, the IRS has issued guidance of form 9990 that nonprofits just as banks must KYC know your customer.

[01:03:35]We the are telling the d the directors of these foundations of these institutions you must know your grantee.

[01:03:44]So KY, if your grantee they is if the money is being used for violent activities, you as a trustee, as a fiduciary are in trouble. If it is being used to take away people's civil rights, you are in trouble and the nonprofit status is in jeopardy. Um, my team looks forward to continuing to work with Treasury on making that more robust so we actually understand both those that are using nonprofit tax exempt as funnels to bad acts, but also are they meeting their community obligations. Um, one that you're probably not going to get as a question from anyone else. Um, we have a fixation of debt management. You know, we're the responsible as policy makers.

[01:04:33]We're responsible for the debt, not the administration. We do make the policy.

[01:04:40]What can we do as members of Congress, Joint Economic Committee, Ways and Means Committee to help you convince the markets, you know, please buy a tenure note.

[01:04:53]Please, um, where we have some vis, you know, the the the visibility to see where we're going. Um I do have some concerns of in the future where the entire world is binging on debt that we have some stressed auctions. What do we do as a country to actually not have that happen to us?

[01:05:14]>> So since President Trump came into office, the US Treasury market has been the best performing uh developed market.

[01:05:24]But that that is not assured. It it is assured that we will have the treasury will have a regular and predictable issuance cadence. But what we must be let our the borrowers know people who are buying treasury bonds whether it is US households, the foreign central banks and everyone else in between that is that we are serious about the getting our debt and deficit numbers under control.

[01:05:54]>> That is perfect, Mr. Secretary. And with that, I yield back, Mr. Chairman.

[01:05:58]>> Mr. Davis.

[01:06:00]>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Mr. Secretary.

[01:06:05]>> Secretary Bessett, as of April 18th, taxpayers received about 3.4 million delayed refund letters. Illinoisans received 110,000.

[01:06:19]Texans, Flidians, and New Yorkers each received over 200,000 and Californians received 400,000.

[01:06:31]Almost three months ago, on March 9th, Representative Soul and I asked you for basic information to demonstrate that Americans are actually getting their delayed refunds.

[01:06:44]Last month, I requested a meeting with the appropriate staff at the IRS or Treasury for this information.

[01:06:54]It was not until this morning that I received a response from Treasury.

[01:06:59]And although the letter contains some highlevel information, it is insufficient to reassure me that Americans are receiving their refunds quickly.

[01:07:12]For example, the information in this morning's letter is substantially outdated.

[01:07:18]Today's letter cited 2.2 million CP 553E notices when a separate document you sent me a few weeks ago cited 3.4 million notices as of April 18th.

[01:07:36]Also, the information in today's letter fails to convey the current number of unique taxpayers whose refunds were delayed.

[01:07:48]Nor does today's letter give a clear understanding of how quickly taxpayers are waiting on their delayed checks. So, Mr. Secretary, could you tell me when uh before June 11th, will you or your staff meet with Representative Su and me to walk us through the evidence that taxpayers with delayed refunds received the funds owed to them?

[01:08:26]>> Microphone.

[01:08:29]I have not seen the letter that I will follow up on this and the the delays that you are talking about are for taxpayers who did not file electronically. We had about 98% of taxpayers file electronically, they received their refunds within 21 days.

[01:08:46]It sounds to me that the out of the 134 approximately 134 million tax returns that we received uh that the April number would have been the un Thank you. And we are at 2.2. So we are working through it and much of that has to do with verification, lack of addresses. So we look forward to working with you on that because we are committed people getting funds. Let me let me just continue.

[01:09:15]>> Uh Mr. Chairman, could you assist me to make sure that we uh the American people receives the information 3.4 4 million delayed notices of getting their refunds expeditiously. And also, I'd like to submit for the record a statebystate breakout provided to me by the Internal Revenue Service where 3.4 million taxpayers live and whose refunds were delayed as of April 18th.

[01:09:54]>> Without objection.

[01:09:55]>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And and Congressman, what was that number last year?

[01:09:59]>> Uh 3.4 million.

[01:10:01]>> No, no, no. I I meant for the previous filing season and the year before that.

[01:10:08]>> Well, I don't know the number for either one of those years, but let me move to my last question. I understand that the Southern Poverty Law Center has been indicted. And let me ask, is the Internal Revenue Service involved in that activity in any way?

[01:10:28]>> Uh, again, that's ongoing litigation, but that would have been done as I read in what I know is what I've read in the newspaper, and that was the Justice Department and the FBI.

[01:10:41]and Internal Revenue is not u urgent or suggesting to any other entities that they may lose their tax exemption if they contribute to the Southern Poverty Law Center.

[01:10:58]>> Again, there's ongoing litigation, but that's driven by the Department of Justice and the FBI.

[01:11:04]>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I give back.

[01:11:06]>> Thank you, Mr. Le Hood.

[01:11:08]>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh Mr. Secretary, welcome. Thank you for being here today. Thanks for your service. I want to touch on affordable housing. I think collectively um as we travel back to our districts, we continue to hear about the lack of affordable housing.

[01:11:23]And I would describe it as a rural, suburban, and urban problem. And last year in the working um families tax cut bill, we included a number of provisions on affordable housing. And one of those was my bill that was included in there on the affordable housing tax credit.

[01:11:40]And as you're well aware, one of the most significant barriers to economic success in our communities is housing.

[01:11:47]And so in the working families tax cut bill, uh we included the affordable housing tax credit, which includes a permanent 12% increase in the 9% allocation of LITC credits beginning this year. Independent analysis have estimated that this will lead to the development of more than 1.2 2 million more affordable homes nationwide over the next 10 years because of what we did. Um, from your perspective and the Department of Treasury, um, what will the expansion of the affordable housing tax credits um, mean for working families struggling to afford housing?

[01:12:20]>> Uh, I the the LITEC provision specifically gives great predictability for investors and builders who want to go into the market. And I think we've already seen a pickup the in in those areas and with this program.

[01:12:38]>> And Mr. Secretary, what do you see for as we uh try to address this problem other um mechanisms within Department of Treasury or legislatively that we ought to be looking at?

[01:12:48]>> Well, there are two housing bills, one one in front of the House and one in front of the Senate and uh that seem to be languishing.

[01:12:58]>> Um I want to switch topics. Um, I also beyond being on the Ways and Means Committee, I serve on our select committee on China, which is a bipartisan committee focused on how do we win the strategic competition against the CCP. And I also serve on our intelligence committee. And I want to focus on 45X. Um, and that's a provision in the tax code. And so, um, last year in the working families tax cut bill, um, we included the foreign entity of concerns restrictions, um, that pertain to curbing Chinese technology by manufacturers and mandating in that bill that they operate fully independent, uh, companies here with no reliance on Chinese entities.

[01:13:39]Despite these clear requirements, recent media reports indicate that many manufacturers continue to depend on the active support of Chinese engineers overseen by the CCP uh security officers embedded in their US facilities undermining the objective of fully uh transferring operational knowledge of these technologies to US companies. Um so, Mr. Secretary, what is Treasury doing to address and prevent uh Chinese uh penetration and involvement in these companies receiving the 45x tax credit?

[01:14:11]>> Uh so we we are pulling the companies.

[01:14:14]We are asking for