It's Called The Clitoris with Nina Deep, MD

Añadido: 2026-06-03

[00:00:00]Hello, beautiful humans. Welcome back to your favorite you. I am so glad that you're here because oh my goodness, do I have a treat for you and for me. Okay, I'm going to start with a question and I want my listeners to really think about this. How many years of formal education did you have? Grade school, high school, college, maybe graduate school, professional school. Most of my listeners have gone to many, many years.

[00:00:28]So, I want you to add it up and then I want you to think about in all of those years, across all of those courses, was the clitoris ever mentioned?

[00:00:39]Was it actually named, discussed, explained? For most of us, the answer is no. And today's guest is here to talk about exactly why that matters and what we're going to do about it. Dr. Dr. Nina Deep is an award-winning physician, a nationwide speaker, a fellow person from Columbus, which I love. She has built an entire mission around one radical idea that women deserve to understand and know their own bodies. She's a board-certified internal medicine doctor. She's been running her boutique medical spa, Nina Deep MD Aesthetics, here in Columbus for over 20 years. and she's the founder of a speaking platform with possibly the best name I have ever heard in my life. It's called the clitoris.

[00:01:30]Now, how did she get here? A TV station censored her commercial about vaginal rejuvenation.

[00:01:39]She pointed out to that station that they happily ran commercials about erectile dysfunction treatment without batting an eye and they didn't budge.

[00:01:50]So, she decided fine, I'm going to talk about this everywhere to everyone for the rest of my career. And this is the kind of energy I want in my orbit. And so, I'm so excited to have you here today, Nina. Welcome to your favorite you, Dr. Deep. I'm so happy you're here.

[00:02:05]>> Thank you. Thank you so much. What a nice introduction. I love that. And I am so thrilled to be here.

[00:02:12]>> Yeah. Amazing.

[00:02:14]>> Yeah. I >> Yeah, everything you said was exactly right. And I think if people really think back to the fact that if you're a woman and you realize that you have never been taught the anatomy of your body, it's rather shocking and perhaps it's shocking to everybody, but even more so if you're a physician >> and you haven't been taught the anatomy of the human body, which for me was such a moment of disillusionment when I realized the extent of lack of knowledge that I had had even as a physician.

[00:02:53]>> Yeah.

[00:02:53]>> And then you know to understand that me when you describe me having vaginal rejuvenation as a procedure, I had this lovely commercial that I was so proud of creating because it was a little bit humorous and it really allowed women to seek out help for complaints or problems that they might have. And it's really hard for women to discuss these things.

[00:03:16]urine leakage, vaginal dryness, wanting to improve their sexual function. Those things are things that generally are topics that women just will accept and not seek help for.

[00:03:28]So, it was quite a shock when um that commercial was censored.

[00:03:34]>> Yeah. Yeah. [ __ ] censoring any of us.

[00:03:38]Like, I'm just like, [ __ ] it all.

[00:03:40]>> I know. I totally agree. And it it was such a discrepancy of uh such a disparity between what's fair for men and what's fair for women. And you know to be honest I had started that commercial in 2018 and you know just to to give you a brief overview the words of the commercial are just you know 50% of women struggle with urine leakage vaginal dryness. Um oh no 50% of women struggle with urine leakage and many more struggle with vaginal dryness. If you're one of them there's this great procedure called the treatment blah blah blah blah blah. At the end I say side effects include increased orgasm and enhanced sexual sensation which was >> who doesn't want that >> and who doesn't want that and it was such a great way our patients would call the office they wouldn't know you know what it was called but they would be giggling and they would say they wanted to um have that procedure for urine leakage. They they actually would never say vaginal dryness or that they wanted to have an improvement in their sexual sensation, but when they came to see me, >> often that was a complaint. Yeah. But women in general are just embarrassed by those topics. So humor was a great way to get them to initiate, you know, to seek treatment and we just had so many >> fantastic years of treating patients.

[00:04:57]And I was running that actual commercial and when I switched advertising stations was when it was censored >> and that was what was so shocking to me too.

[00:05:05]>> Right. Well, and it's so interesting, right? Because let's run all these commercials for erectile dysfunction and have these men being able to have sex for days. That's right.

[00:05:15]>> And you know, >> let's leave let's leave the women behind. And also, it was it's just been so normalized for men that there are abbreviations. There's ED, >> right? And there's many different companies um and even grade school kids I bet know the phrase if your erection is lasting for more than four hours, >> right? We all know it.

[00:05:38]>> It's just so normalized that when the ra when the TV station um wanted me to change the commercial um I actually understood why they I got it. It was so shocking for them and it they just could not get around the idea that women were allowed to be sexual beings, >> we can be sexualized, >> but we can't own our own sexuality.

[00:06:02]>> Enjoy it. Yeah.

[00:06:02]>> Yeah.

[00:06:03]>> Oh, Lord.

[00:06:04]>> Right.

[00:06:06]>> Okay.

[00:06:08]>> So, let's back up a little bit because I've got a ton of questions for you.

[00:06:12]Yeah.

[00:06:12]>> But I I don't want to let you get past my favorite question for all of my guests, which is please tell our audience about your favorite you, Dr. Dean.

[00:06:24]>> Yes, I should have I should have had this fully prepared, but now that you're actually asking, my favorite me, my favorite me is continuing to push comfort level and boundaries for things that I truly am passionate about changing the status quo. And I would never have thought that just I started this vaginal rejuvenation device. I wouldn't have thought I would have to be an advocate for women's sexual health out there in the big bad world because I'm okay to do it in my little corner, but >> it was profoundly necessary at this point. Really, it was >> um I actually was so shocked because my commercial I'm in a lab coat and they said it was okay that they could play me um in the middle of the night just like they do the Lion Stand commercials.

[00:07:15]And I thought, you know, there nothing wrong with lines done, but >> right, >> I'm literally a professional trying to help women, and you're censoring me in a way that is going to inhibit women from seeking care.

[00:07:29]>> Well, and making it seem dirty.

[00:07:32]>> That's right. And they believe it's dirty. That's the problem. They really do.

[00:07:37]>> They need to go to therapy.

[00:07:41]>> That's right. That's right.

[00:07:43]>> Gosh. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Okay.

[00:07:46]>> So, yeah, continuing to live in my truth, I suppose, is my favorite version of me.

[00:07:51]>> Yeah.

[00:07:52]>> Even when it's uncomfortable, >> right? Especially when it's uncomfortable because that's when it actually starts to help people, >> right? Because when I first thought about even bringing the vaginal rejuvenation device into my practice, >> I had to pause and think about it. Like, I'm giving women Botox and, you know, laser rejuvenation procedure, right? And all of a sudden, I was going to, even though women's health was always been a a focus of mine, um I thought, I wonder, I wonder if my patients are going to want to come to me >> for this procedure rather than going to their gynecologist, for example, >> but no one is offering it like at this point that I was doing it. That kind of care, they just it's >> I am actually the right venue for it.

[00:08:38]And then when I brought it in and I first wanted to advertise for it, I honestly even myself was using the words intimate parts, >> right?

[00:08:49]>> Like euphemistic language. I myself and it felt so wrong. So it took me a minute to get to I'm allowed to >> learn all of that. Yeah.

[00:08:59]>> Yeah. And so that whole learning experience for me has has been so transformative and it has been just such a gift to be able to be open about it and to be able to lecture about it and then to have everyone so feeling so empowered after learning this information that I hope it does change the way that they talk to their kids and their friends.

[00:09:23]>> Right.

[00:09:24]>> Right. Right. Right.

[00:09:25]>> Oh gosh. Yeah. I mean, back in my pediatric days, you know, I mean, >> I would talk to >> the kids, young men, young women about all of it, right? And >> um, you know, I think that >> they were so they felt so safe with me because we had built up this relationship over the years and that type of thing. And I didn't shy away from any of it. And they knew that they could talk to me. And it's one of the greatest, you know, um, prides that I have from my pediatric practice days of just making, >> you know, sexual health not be taboo.

[00:10:09]Even >> creating that safe space. That's right.

[00:10:12]Yeah. For for boys and girls.

[00:10:14]>> Yeah. Yeah. because I mean we're sexual beings from a quite a young age.

[00:10:20]>> Yes.

[00:10:20]>> Um and I think taking ownership over that especially as young women uh helps us to not be victimized or to know when we are being right victimized.

[00:10:36]>> Yeah. I I know you talk about being a recovering Catholic. Mhm. I feel like I although I was raised Hindu, >> but I I >> the shame goes across the religious spectrum.

[00:10:49]>> That's right. I always I always think to myself, I do feel like that. Um yeah, I was raised in Dayton to an immigrant family from India and my my parents, I think they came here believing that their daughters were going to adopt a value system that wasn't similar to theirs. So they were going to lose that um you know that we they were going to become shameless his is what my mother would say and it's not I don't think it's that uncommon that people would think that especially immigrant families but maybe anybody um and she very much worried that we would get pregnant you know and it's just a norm I get it it's a normal fear that you have but boy did I internalize all of those um ideas that being being at all interested in sex was a very bad thing >> um as a girl that our sexuality was dangerous and I was such a good girl >> intentionally um and it really it really I'm surprised actually that I was able to go to college, go to med school, get married to my husband and have such a great sex life with my husband. Like I actually am surprised by that because of all of this internalized shame that I truly did have. And >> it really wasn't until 2018 um when my patient started to so I did this vaginal rejuvenation device. I brought in >> and I I had the procedure myself of course and I actually didn't have any of the side effects like meaning I didn't not the side effects I didn't have urine leakage that much like yes you know a little bit if I was going to go for a run I might think oh I better not run too far because I have to go back to the house um and you know take a potty break but I didn't have vaginal dryness but I also was like an increase in my sexual sexual sensation that would be pretty fantastic.

[00:12:51]>> Um, and so this transformative event happened after I had the procedure >> and it's something I never thought would h I didn't expect it >> but I went into every intimate encounter with my husband after that >> with this completely different mindset.

[00:13:10]I thought that the whole thing was about me, which you know, maybe we all go should go into it that way, but I had never done this. I always thought like my my virginity or my sexuality or these sexual encounters, it was basically these gifts that I was giving to my husband.

[00:13:28]>> I just went into this to to sex to intimacy with idea that, you know, men want it and women give it.

[00:13:36]>> Yeah. It's a transaction. It's a transaction.

[00:13:39]>> And it never occurred to me that it should be different. I'm not saying it wasn't fun. We had a good sex life. But when I had that procedure, >> my mindset shifted, I was paying attention to my body in a way I never had. I communicated more like, "Oh, that feels good." I was so curious about, oh, is this better?

[00:13:59]>> Like, what is it? What's going on down there? Yeah.

[00:14:01]>> And just I I felt so different in my body that over like the six months because it's six weeks to six months.

[00:14:10]Your sensation is supposed to be better.

[00:14:11]>> Yeah.

[00:14:12]>> It did get better, of course.

[00:14:14]>> But my whole approach to intimacy with him shifted, meaning I was more in I initiated it more often, right?

[00:14:23]>> And when we did did were intimate, I was so much more open and I like lost that shame. I I almost felt like I uh just didn't have to apologize for being me and that I was a sexual being. I could embrace it. And then I um o over the six months I think I started to put down all these boundaries in my personal life.

[00:14:48]Like so things in the bedroom changed but it transitioned and translated to my life, >> right?

[00:14:54]>> And I just interesting.

[00:14:56]>> Yeah. I was putting down boundaries with family and friends. I like let go of relationships that no longer served me.

[00:15:00]I became a better boss, a better leader.

[00:15:02]All of a sudden, my decisions, I felt more confident in them. And really, my whole kind of like confidence shift. I'm a confident person, >> but it shifted in a way that if I felt like something was right, I just listened.

[00:15:16]>> Yeah.

[00:15:18]So cool. I mean, >> I am a huge fan of Kelly Caspersonson.

[00:15:23]I've had her on the podcast. I am, too.

[00:15:25]I'm sure we're both in the Kelly Caspersonson fan club.

[00:15:28]>> Yes. Yes. Yes.

[00:15:29]>> And you know, she says, and I don't know if she's the person to say it, but she's who I quote, you know, our brain is our biggest sexual organ, >> right?

[00:15:39]>> So, you know, if you're taking this new mindset into the bedroom, it makes sense that you would start having different experiences.

[00:15:48]>> I think that would be able to translate into other areas of your life. And yeah, and you know, I think as physicians, and I don't know you, I don't know how you felt, but I always felt like my patients needed to be physically, mentally, and spiritually strong. Like those were like the three pillars that I was like, let's make sure they've got all that going on.

[00:16:06]But their sexual health history was really just a are they at risk for sexually transmitted?

[00:16:10]>> Yeah. It wasn't too much about are you embracing your sexuality? Is that a core pillar of who you are? But after I had this procedure and I let go of that shame, I realized how much shame can disempower you.

[00:16:23]>> Even if it's something you don't realize you're carrying, by releasing that, >> I felt so much more empowered. I felt like I was the woman I should have always been.

[00:16:33]>> Yeah. So interesting.

[00:16:35]>> And what I'm hearing you say, and you can correct me if I'm wrong.

[00:16:38]>> Yeah. is that your parents worrying about you guys becoming hussies made it so that you were a good girl. So you didn't >> experiment in that type of thing when you were younger and you you know I who knows you know you don't have to give me the whole thing and you still carried the shame into this relationship where I'm sure your parents as soon after you got married were like when are the babies coming like you to flip the switch where that's right you know I'm not a sexual being at all to all of a sudden >> it's my job to make babies >> that's right >> um but I'm here to tell you that even those of us who were um sexually active when we were younger and like I'm talking about everything except you know uh penis and vagina sex when you could get pregnant because you know school girl I certainly did not want that to happen but like the shame of those experiences >> and even sometimes the shame of >> oh my god >> what led up to it like all of that >> that And like, oh, you know, I don't want to name names, but poor so and so.

[00:17:51]Like, I was such a tease. Like, you know, I mean, even that shame of, >> you know, he never did get to insert his penis into my >> Right. That's right.

[00:18:03]>> The shame of that still as a [ __ ] three-year-old.

[00:18:07]>> Exactly. Exactly. I know. I know. And I'm not saying I I'm not saying we didn't have premarital sex. I'm just saying that it was it was very you know it was limited everything and the shame I carried even of that you know that I'm having this before we're married which >> now you know doesn't make me >> well yeah now I'm like oh I wish I had had more sexual partners I oh I was talking to my Indian friend one of my Indian friends not Bonnie and she was saying how she didn't want her daughter to be having sex with her boyfriend or whatever. And yeah, >> I was like, you do realize that there are some of us who are in our 50s and wish we had more sexual partners, right?

[00:18:53]>> She was like, "What?"

[00:18:55]>> Exactly. I know. Isn't that so funny?

[00:18:58]>> Um I totally know what she's saying. I in the in I I often say kind of in a in a just funny way um that I used to believe that fairy tale that one day my prince charming would come and then so would I.

[00:19:16]>> Yes.

[00:19:18]>> Amazing.

[00:19:19]>> It was almost like I just would that's what I believed. Hi Melissa. I was just like thought that my entire sexual being rested in the hands of my future husband and that he was going to, you know, be the end all be all. No, unlock the key.

[00:19:36]>> Yes.

[00:19:37]>> Wow.

[00:19:38]>> Yeah.

[00:19:38]>> So interesting. So to have this vacuum rejuvenation procedure, to feel how much it transformed me only because I let go of the shame >> and then to be able to talk to patients who actually were so concerned about feeling broken. Um there's so many other ways that you know pmenopause menopause can change your libido. But they physically felt broken because they were not having orgasms with vaginal penetrative sex and felt that they should be >> right. they felt like their organ, you know, that and they had been taught that and I think a lot of men have been taught that and so I started to research how to talk to my patients about um their sexual function pre pre-procedure, postprocedure and there was such a der of actual like um questionnaires and ways to really quantify this. But anyway, as I was researching it, I came across Sophia Wallace's TED talk. And Sophia Walls is this wonderful artist and she had these six foot tall gold statues um of the what she was calling the clitoris. And I was looking at that thinking, "Oh, it must just be her artistic representation of the clitoris." This is 2018 cuz I still didn't know.

[00:20:54]>> Yeah. You thought it was just the little nub at the top.

[00:20:56]>> I thought it was just the little dot.

[00:20:58]That's how what I've been taught. I thought >> Yeah, that's that's what we were taught in medical school. We certainly did not dissect out the bulbs of the clitoris.

[00:21:06]>> Absolutely not. And so when I saw her talk and I realized, okay, so then I just kept digging and realized, oh my gosh, this artist knows more about female anatomy than I do. And then I really realized, no, I'm not alone.

[00:21:20]Actually brought home these little this little statue >> and I showed it to my husband and I was like, and he's a physician. So I said, and I think I was probably a little angry. I'm like, "Do you know what this is? It's a life-sized part of our bodies." And you know, he didn't know.

[00:21:39]And I'm like, "It's our clitoris. It's the clitoris."

[00:21:44]And then I thought, "Oh, wow. Nobody knows this. Like, this is just not known to physicians in general." And then, you know, looking um at how if we don't know this, then how is it impacting our health as women and hearing stories about women being surgically harmed?

[00:22:00]Because with the advent of the digital age and the um I guess the the plethora of videos and pictures and pornography that has come up.

[00:22:15]>> This has caused women to want to go um have laboplasty procedures, >> right? So they think they're supposed to look like Barbie, >> which means they think their labia majora or labia minora are too large and they want to have it all surgically changed.

[00:22:32]>> Tucked in. Yes, >> that's right. And when that happens, surgeons don't have no idea that there are dorsal clitoreral nerves.

[00:22:40]>> Yeah.

[00:22:41]>> That are inside the clitoreral hood. And so they're actually causing surgical harm and then women are either having chronic pain afterwards or inability to have orgasms because their dorsal clitoreral nerves are severed >> and um to and they don't know that the labia minora are part of our um they have sensation. They they have erectile tissue. They get engorged with with um arousal and they're important to our sexual functioning. So they're just removing them because they don't know.

[00:23:11]And uh even when women have other surgical procedures like lumbar spinal fusions, >> they can have permanent inability to have an orgasm afterwards because their clitoreral nerves are impacted.

[00:23:25]>> Wow.

[00:23:27]>> And so I was giving gave this talk and a woman came up to me after and she said, "I had a lumbar spinal fusion 10 years ago and now I think I I couldn't orgasm after." And I went to my surgeon and I asked my surgeon what happened and he didn't he said it was unrelated. She said but now I think it is related. And from her story my literature search revealed that if you have a lumbar spinal fusion there are a million ways you can map out how to preserve male sexual function >> and prevent retrograde ejaculation for men. A million. And there's so many studies, >> but there's none about women and female sexual function and impacting >> the ability for women to have an orgasm after that. And that's just one procedure, >> right? This is >> Yeah. I mean, it's so sad. So, in so many ways, this talk has really an it.

[00:24:19]It's made me want to show women number one, we have to know our bodies and we have to know the names of our genitals.

[00:24:27]We can't refer to everything as vagina, which we tend to do. And even I did that.

[00:24:33]>> To say my vulva. I mean, who says that?

[00:24:35]We should say it.

[00:24:37]>> I taught all of my patients. I'm so yay.

[00:24:41]>> Yeah. Because they would call it their vagina or their kitty cat or their pocketbook or whatever.

[00:24:46]>> Yes. Yes. All of those names, right?

[00:24:48]We're going to call it the vulva. Well, >> what do we teach? I mean, in general, I think it was my neighbor who said to me in her very, she has little boys and girls, and she said, you know, I was so happy. I really use anatomical terms when I'm telling my kids what their body parts are. I say, "Boys have a penis.

[00:25:04]Girls have a vagina."

[00:25:06]>> And I said, "I know, but boys have a penis and girls have a clitoris."

[00:25:13]>> That's the anatomical homalogue.

[00:25:15]>> Yeah.

[00:25:16]>> And that is nothing I've ever heard before.

[00:25:18]>> Right. Like because the anatomical hormologue is the penis and the clitoris. They come from the same >> embryological tissue.

[00:25:27]>> They actually serve the same function sexually, >> right?

[00:25:31]>> Um and >> although the penis has more functions than >> does it needs to urinate and it does need to ejaculate, but >> we don't think of it that way. Mm-m.

[00:25:42]>> I mean, we truly believe that our vagina encompasses all of our ex, you know, all of our female sexual organs. And >> really, the vagina is our birth canal.

[00:25:53]>> Yeah. It doesn't do much.

[00:25:56]>> Doesn't do much. And there aren't very many nerves in there because if there were, we'd never be able to give birth, >> right?

[00:26:03]>> But it's interesting because I really did grow up believing that exact >> fallacy. like I just >> never thought about it in the terms that I now think of it. And it makes what it makes the lack of our knowledge so glaring >> that if you look at um the what we learn in middle school sex ed >> and you just look at the p at the penis diagram and the testicles and what you see is the uterus, the ovaries, the fallopian tubes, the vaginal canal >> and nowhere on that diagram is the clitoris.

[00:26:39]And so at that young age when we're all really trying to learn about our bodies, the female sexual organ is completely omitted.

[00:26:47]>> And I have a new diagram that's very pretty and it has the clitoris on it.

[00:26:51]>> Yeah.

[00:26:52]>> And it's so shocking to look at it if you look at it um because you realize how much better it would have been >> if we had learned it that way >> as if it was no big deal, >> right?

[00:27:07]>> Yeah. We're supposed to and pleasure is supposed to be a part of life. We wouldn't have this part if we weren't supposed to.

[00:27:14]>> That's right. And we can't say the word clitoris without the whole room being in shock.

[00:27:19]>> Yeah.

[00:27:20]>> In fact, my original talk, so my website is called it's called the clitoris.com, which I love, love, love.

[00:27:27]>> But then when I tried to get speeches, they didn't want to have that as the talk >> title.

[00:27:33]>> Do you know what I mean? Even I forgot that it's taboo when I would.

[00:27:36]>> Yeah.

[00:27:37]>> So, I had to change it, which is fine.

[00:27:40]>> Yeah. Right. Just change it so you can get in the room and you can say whatever you want. Yeah.

[00:27:45]>> Right.

[00:27:46]>> Yeah. They wouldn't write it like on the hotel like where the you know they do all the >> words. Yeah. Nope. All of that stuff.

[00:27:55]Isn't that so funny?

[00:27:57]>> Well, I I'm thinking I'm so glad you got censored. I know at the beginning like I said book censorship.

[00:28:02]>> That's exact. I agree. I agree.

[00:28:04]>> It just like Thank goodness it led you down this >> I'm I'm going to call it a rabbit hole, but I mean, thank God it led you down this vaginal tunnel >> and up through the vulva in the >> That's perfect. Yes. Exactly.

[00:28:20]>> Pop out of the vaginal canal and there you are.

[00:28:22]>> That's right.

[00:28:24]>> Yeah. No, I'm so glad too because >> I I think that the more that women know about their bodies and they can use the right anatomical terms and they can teach those terms to the next generation, >> right?

[00:28:36]>> That's going to start, you know, interrupting this this shame, ignorance, and silence cycle >> because when we don't know what we're talking about, we feel shame. When we feel shame, then we feel ignorant about what we're talking about. And it is just a shame, ignorant, silence >> Yeah.

[00:28:51]>> cycle. And if we if we continue to refer to everything as the vagina, >> then we are um not giving ourselves the permission to have to be sexual beings.

[00:29:04]Mhm.

[00:29:05]>> The clitoris.

[00:29:06]>> Well, and I mean I don't know there's like the like the beauty of saying vagina even because even that I mean I remembered when my mom taught me that my grandfather was so upset.

[00:29:21]>> You're right. So even the word vagina is censored and in fact there's a a list of the most censored words on Meta and the vagina is the most censored word and there's such a discrepancy between male sexual health and female sexual health ads that are censored in on Meta that there's a an organization called the um Center for Intimacy Justice and it gathered 60 of the um biggest female health um companies and And now they have an organization that can then advocate to get the laws changed to help with censorship for female health. And these are companies that might be um you know sex toy companies or they could be urinary leakage you know or um uh lactation specialists or information about sexual consent or period information for >> you know young girls menrating. But it's just anything that has to do with female sexual health is censored. So >> yeah, >> vagina, um uterus, um ovaries, uh just any word really norm lactation, breastfeeding, practically every word you can imagine is censored for people's sexual health.

[00:30:36]And so >> it's certainly something that needs some advocacy.

[00:30:41]>> I love it. And I love that you're out there doing this work in Columbus like helping it has been received with such um you know I think awe and and people are so uh shocked by how much they didn't know and in my office on one-on-one with my patients I'm constantly talking about this and I have these lovely you know like little ulva puppets and they're quite nice because you really cannot discuss this without having some sort of anatomical model and >> we don't have anatomical models that available.

[00:31:19]>> I mean, I literally had to buy them on Etsy. In fact, any sexual health or, you know, even Kelly Casper said, you will see they get all of these things in non-medical sites because that is not where we can get models. You know, you can get models where you can take out the uterus, you can take out the bladder, >> but there's no model that you can then take out the clitoris.

[00:31:38]>> Yeah.

[00:31:39]>> It just doesn't exist.

[00:31:41]>> Oh, >> I know. So, one woman at a time, we're gonna change this narrative. And I I hope that when they learn about their bodies and they realize how much physicians, even physicians don't know, >> they're going to clearly advocate for their health in situations that could impact them. So >> yes. Oh yeah.

[00:32:02]>> I I I don't know if you felt this way, but you know, I think a lot of people, but I grew up like revering doctors >> and thinking that I couldn't question anything, right?

[00:32:12]>> And I think they're fallible. There are things they don't know and they're really they're not >> Yes, we are both here to tell you that we didn't learn this.

[00:32:19]>> That's right. We didn't learn it.

[00:32:20]>> There was no class about this.

[00:32:22]>> No. And in fact, in medical school, I remember during physical diagnosis lab, they said during the genital exams, they said, "Don't touch the clitoris. It's way too sensitive. Women are going to be very, you know, bothered by it." But of course, we were taught exactly how to examine the penis and pull back the foreskin. You know, just normal stuff that you would do. So, um, Rachel Rubin, who's also a urologist, I don't know if you So, they did a study out in where she is, I don't know where they did the study, but they did this a study in 2024 that showed that 25% of women actually struggle with clitoreral adhesions.

[00:32:58]>> So, that can cause pain, right, >> or sexual dysfunction for women.

[00:33:03]>> Yeah.

[00:33:03]>> But as physicians, if we're not even examining that, we're never going to detect it, >> right? Exactly. Yeah.

[00:33:10]>> To see it to know. Yeah. So interesting.

[00:33:14]You kind of talked about this, Nina, but I want everyone who's listening to hear you for sure say this >> about the myth of the vaginal orgasm.

[00:33:26]Yes, I would love to talk about that because this is something that I think people are still unsure about and even I was u met with all of these different theories about orgasm and how there is a initially when I started researching I read there are clitoreral orgasms and there are vaginal orgasms and you could have one or both or neither. Um but now I firmly after studying the anatomy I firmly believe all orgasms are >> clitoreral >> and so if you if you look at how the clitoris is structured um it has the clitoris itself the clitoreral tip that we're all aware of then it has the shaft just like the penis and then it has four legs that insert um two insert into the pelvic floor. These are the internal parts of the clitoris and then two that surround the vaginal canal. The two that insert into the pelvic floor contract your pelvic floor with orgasm which is why you feel your pelvic floor contractions just like men. I mean they have the same thing. Um and then the two that surround the vaginal canal are what you had referenced clitoreral bulbs and they become very engorged with arousal and they become very um they actually have a lot of erectile tissue in them and when you're aroused as a woman it can feel really good to have um vaginal penetration. Mhm.

[00:34:49]>> But when you're not aroused, it typically doesn't feel that good. And so all sensation for women, it really centers around the clitoris and what we can call the clitoreral complex or the full anatomy of the clitoris. So it it's so kind of obvious to me now that the vaginal canal it certainly feels a lot of sensation especially in the outer oneird of the vaginal canal that can feel penetration and can feel um more of the direct um expansion.

[00:35:23]>> But there aren't a lot of nerves in the distal 2/3 >> why you can wear a tampon without being really uncomfortable. That's why you >> without even knowing that it's there.

[00:35:33]>> Exactly.

[00:35:35]>> And so it makes sense to me that the area that we all call the G-spot which is located inside the vaginal canal. So if you're, you know, putting your finger inside your vaginal canal about a few centimeters up, if you're trying to touch your belly button from the inside, that area is called the G-spot. And that is the confluence of where all the clitoreral legs meet. And so that area has been dissected to see whether or not there's really hisystologically anything special about that area and there is not.

[00:36:08]>> So there is no real G-spot but it is definitely where all the clitoreral legs you know come together and so there's a lot of heightened sensation there. Uh but I think the clitoris itself is really what's responsible for all of our orgasms. And this has also been shown in women that have either spinal cord injuries or if they have had um female genital mutilation like can they have orgasms? I know and that is a really sad topic. Um but the ability to have an orgasm is really very clearly mediated >> guess is my point. So, what I'm hearing you say without saying it is if you are having penis in vagina sex or penetrative sex.

[00:36:50]>> Yes.

[00:36:50]>> And not having an orgasm, >> Yes.

[00:36:53]>> you need to involve your clitoris somehow.

[00:36:56]>> That's right. That is exactly right. And typically what has happened is that women go into their sexual experiences because this is what they learn as a young woman. They go in not expecting it to be great, at least the first time, >> right? go in with this really low expectation. The bar is pretty low. You just don't want it to hurt >> and you don't want to get pregnant. The two things that we generally are when we go into these first sexual experiences, a lot of fear. Um, and most of us, you know, are not having an orgasm during that first sexual experience. Um, and what we really have to understand is we need to advocate for ourselves. So, first you got to know your own body. You have to masturbate. You have to know what feels good. Then you have to communicate that to your partner what feels good.

[00:37:42]>> Yes.

[00:37:43]>> And um so women go into sex without the expectation of having an orgasm, but they can change that whole dialogue interaction narrative with the expectation of going into sex and expecting to have an orgasm. Apparently, there's been a study that shows it increases your chances of having an orgasm by 2,000%. If all you do is go in with the expectation that you want to have an orgas, right? So again, your brain, >> right? And so >> part of the equation that >> yeah but we go in thinking that we're not going to have one but men go in thinking they are going to have one >> if that's expectation every single time right so there's this huge orgasm gap that's occurred now that means that women are not having as many orgasms as men on a general basis if you are if you know that person really well and you're in a committed long-term relationship and as a woman if you're able to advocate for yourself and you feel comfortable and you can relax enough to actually allow yourself to have an orgasm, your chance is about 65% of the time you'll have an orgasm and a man will have one about 95% of the time in that best case scenario. And that's where we live right now. But if you're in a friends with benefit situation, you know them, but you're not in a long-term committed relationship, it's about 30 to 35% of the time you'll have an orgasm as a woman. That's really pretty bad. If it is a first time hookup, you know, you don't know that person at all. the chance that you have an orgasm is less than 5%. For a woman, >> so there's this huge orgasm gap and it has to do with us.

[00:39:13]>> Yeah.

[00:39:14]>> Too, I think it's mainly us.

[00:39:16]>> I I actually I think this is something women can change. So men learn about sex through >> the media, movies, and pornography. I mean, that is what's teaching them about sex, and that is made by men >> unless their mother is Melissa Parson, >> right? Unless they're lucky enough, but that's only a few kids in this world or their doctor. I suppose you could have influences a lot of kids. Um, yeah. So, so you know, men don't know.

[00:39:46]>> Yeah.

[00:39:47]>> They think it's vaginal thrusting.

[00:39:48]They're taught that the harder they thrust, the more likely their partner is to have an orgasm. And that's what they learn. unless we speak up >> um and take it into our own hands so >> or really just vocalize what feels good and actually have to get into like you said are the right headsp space.

[00:40:07]>> Um so there's >> there's this, you know, lack of attention to women and their sexual pleasure that has been around forever.

[00:40:18]It actually I I wondered if we had only just mapped out the clitoris recently in medicine. And I had read something on the internet that said, "Oh, you've we just mapped it out like 30 years ago."

[00:40:30]And I thought, "Oh, wow." And so two of my kids are in medical school. I know.

[00:40:34]So this weekend that I So this is kind of like um you know, this is kind of a little bit probably too much too much detail, but I'll tell you. So that weekend that I got censored, I got this, you know, email and and talked with the them on a Friday. Well, my daughter was home from medical school with her two of her friends and they were all graduating that year. One was going into OBGYn and one was going into OPTO. And so the three of them got a chance to hear me rant about being censored and I I got out my clitoris statue and I fully expected that in 30 years since I had been to med school that those three would know everything I was saying because they have social media. I just figured this was something that was, you know, they knew that I didn't know because, you know, >> No.

[00:41:18]>> Yeah.

[00:41:18]>> They didn't know any of it.

[00:41:20]>> Yeah. And I thought, "Oh, how oh wow."

[00:41:24]So then it led me to the rabbit hole and I realized that the clitoris has been clearly mapped out since the 1600s. And we've seen it in medical texts. They're actually more clearly depicted in medical texts from the 1800s than they are in medical texts today. And what happened in 1948 is the editor of Gayy's Anatomy, Charles Goss, removed every single mention or diagram of the clitoris from Gayy's Anatomy.

[00:41:55]>> Like what we're supposed to learn >> Yeah.

[00:41:58]>> from, >> right?

[00:41:59]>> Removed it completely. Yes. It made it its way back. But that he was allowed to do that. That that was okay. that he could just remove a part of the body >> and say that this was the anatomical Bible for all medical students >> and he was allowed to do that is is shocking. So I feel like we're still recovering from that.

[00:42:17]>> Yeah. Oh yeah. Still recovering from so much. I mean that's the year my mom was born 1948. And just think about all the women of her generation.

[00:42:26]>> I know.

[00:42:27]>> Who you know had no information about this. And then they were also like double whammedi with the women's health initiative and didn't get any absolutely hormones and yes >> yeah I mean thankfully we're swinging back and >> thankfully we're swinging back but I will tell you that it is a little bit distressing for me which is also why I feel like I need to tell even more so than telling doctors I feel like I need to tell women >> about this because women are going to be able to embrace this knowledge and hopefully protect themselves from medical harm which I think is really important. and they're, you know, they can undergo procedures that don't adequately discuss their possibility of having a change in their sexual function and they just need to make sure their doctors if they're having a surgical procedure or even just a vulvar biopsy are aware >> of where the clitoreral nerves are. Like I I I think it's a legitimate question.

[00:43:19]>> Yeah. What question should they be asking, Nina?

[00:43:22]>> So, they really need to um ask how that doctor is going to protect their sexual function. Okay, that's it.

[00:43:30]>> Yeah, >> I think that's a good one because that's not going to offend anyone like they they they might they might not want to pull out like these diagrams of the clitoris, you know, >> give you a quick anatomy lesson before you >> Exactly. What risks what risks do you do I have to my sexual function during this procedure? And how are you going to protect my sexual function from harm?

[00:43:51]And trust me when I tell you that if they ask those questions, they're going to understand whether their doctor has any clue or not not have any clue.

[00:43:59]>> Right. And if they're like, "Oh, we don't have to worry about that. It's time to find a new surgeon."

[00:44:04]>> That's right.

[00:44:05]>> Okay. Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough.

[00:44:07]Fair enough.

[00:44:08]>> Yeah.

[00:44:08]>> Um I know we don't have a ton of time, >> but you kind of glossed over how you got rid of your sexual shame.

[00:44:18]>> Yes.

[00:44:19]Do you want to speak about that at all?

[00:44:22]>> I mean, you don't have to tell me personally, but you can, but >> No, no. So, what it was um it was, how do I say this? It was by accident.

[00:44:34]>> Okay.

[00:44:35]>> And what it took now that I know what I was doing is actually just remaining present in my body. So instead of instead of acting like it was a gift that I was giving to my husband >> and when you have that attitude, you don't believe it's for you. And so if you change that and you think this is all about you and you physically are present in your body in a way that I just hadn't been to that extent before >> where the entire experience I felt was all about me, my pleasure, my sensations, my body. And so when I I think if you're um I don't know how many other women feel this way, but to really be present and feel that this is like you're paying attention to your sensations and you're paying attention to what feels good and you're willing to vocalize it. Um and and then it just becomes a lot more fun. And then you realize that being sexual in your body is not shameful and that you're not going to be um you know put down for it or uh considered uh promiscuous.

[00:45:45]I think these were thoughts I had that were just so deepated that to verbalize it it sounds silly because of course it's my husband and he would never think that. But to actually go through it and to realize that by embracing your sexuality, by living in your body in the moment every second when you're intimate with someone, it is a different experience because you can go through that experience and not be in your body.

[00:46:08]>> Yeah. You can be totally shut down.

[00:46:10]Yeah.

[00:46:11]>> Yes. Yes. And I don't I won't want to say I was totally shut down. My husband wants to make sure that I say that we had a great sex life.

[00:46:19]>> My husband would want me to say that too. So, I will verbalize that. Before I got my clitoreral stimulator, we had a great sex life. And after I got my clitoreral stimulator, we totally closed the orgasm gap. And like I'm totally winning.

[00:46:34]>> Exact. And you know that I didn't know that some women cannot orgasm without a vibrator.

[00:46:39]>> Like sometimes their clitoreral nerves are just the type that really respond to vibration. And so that is a reason that some women may have said, "I've never had an orgasm." or have only been able to have an orgasm by themselves.

[00:46:52]>> Right. Right. Right. Yeah.

[00:46:53]>> You know, and so yeah, I think that um it's amazing when you talk to women and you you really >> many of my patients don't know where their clitoris is until I show them or they have never masturbated, would never think of masturbating. And really I need to encourage them to explore their body even if it's just touching their arms and legs, you know, and sometimes I think having them see a specialist is, you know, really great and I definitely encourage that. But the shame that they have that they carry is so deep-seated that being in their body during intimate relationships is just not not part of what they've ever done.

[00:47:29]>> And I think, you know, I haven't really talked about inclusion here because I, you know, it is hard because I really am just talking about cisgendered women and men, heterosexual experiences, but of course all experiences are valid. And >> if if we could change the way we we view that word virginity because we go in as women and young girls like losing our virginity as if it is something that is taken from us, >> give it away.

[00:47:56]>> Give it away. And it it's something that just the penis entering the v vagina is supposed to somehow like magically change us. And I think the idea of having our making our sexual debut and changing that that verbiage from losing your virginity to making your sexual debut, it might be a kinder and gentler way. And to define it, we could define it as the first time you're able to have an orgasm with a partner.

[00:48:24]>> That's when you made your sexual debut.

[00:48:27]Because that in, you know, that basically shows you that you can have trust, intimacy, you know, warmth, connection with another human being, right?

[00:48:35]>> And that's what you want to get out. Uh, you know, intercourse.

[00:48:39]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. And I love it that you brought up the fact that we are totally being >> Yes. Yes.

[00:48:47]>> Yes. I want to make sure that it's understood that sex can mean sex for any >> any love and sex. And there isn't a gender gap uh in >> lesbian relationships.

[00:49:02]>> Yeah, there is no there is no orgasm gap with lesbian relationships, >> which I think is so great.

[00:49:08]>> Yeah. Yeah, they're winning.

[00:49:10]>> Yep, that's right.

[00:49:12]>> So good. All right, sweet Nina. Is there anything that you wanted to talk about that I didn't ask about or that we didn't get to?

[00:49:20]>> So glad that we got to cover so much.

[00:49:22]>> Yeah, I know. Me, too.

[00:49:24]I let's uh let me think about this. Let me actually look at my notes here. I do have some images and I don't know what >> Yes, please. I will put them in the show notes.

[00:49:34]>> Okay. Okay. Because >> I won't do anything. I will send them to Grace and she will put them in the show notes.

[00:49:41]>> Okay. I don't know how we can get some of this stuff. Oh, I know. Um I did want to say one other thing because I think it's fascinating and this goes towards women being advocates for their own health. So there's this word hysteria >> which has come from the word hyster which means uterus and the word hysterical has been used to describe women and it's it really implies that women are just these emotional creatures that are unable to have leadership qualities and can be you know stable and um I guess I have I internalized that growing up even though I was in medical school becoming a doctor all these things that you would think but still I kind of thought Well, you know, men are better leaders, >> but I know, okay, that has been unlearned over many years, but um the word hysterical is one of many words that have has been used to describe women as being emotionally unstable and incapable of lead leading and the data really doesn't support this at all.

[00:50:43]Women led countries do better than male-led countries. Women led companies do better on so many different metrics, but women physicians actually perform better and have lower mortality for their patients than male physicians.

[00:50:58]>> Yes.

[00:50:58]>> In all different types of specialties.

[00:51:01]And one of the best studies that I think really um highlights this was a landmark study. It came out in JAMAMA and it really came out just maybe five years ago.

[00:51:10]>> Okay. It was n it was by um the a physician group in Ontario. Christopher Wallace is a urological oncologist in Ontario, Canada. And then their medical system, they can mine charts really easily. So they looked at surgical outcomes of 1.3 million patients and they looked at 3,000 surgeons and they looked at they age matched them. It was a very well-designed study and they just looked at what happened if you had surgery from a female physician, a female surgeon versus a male surgeon.

[00:51:40]And they they had all these other criteria, but one of the most shocking shocking findings of the studies was that if you were a woman and you had surgery from a male surgeon, your chance of dying over 30 days and one year was 32% higher.

[00:51:56]>> Wow.

[00:51:57]>> Than if you had just gone to a female surgeon, which is like utterly shocking to me.

[00:52:04]>> Yeah. And if you were a male patient and went to a male surgeon, your chance of dying was 12% greater than if you had just gone to a female surgeon.

[00:52:17]And that I think it's important for women to know that >> it it doesn't mean that you have to all choose female doctors, >> right? It means that you need to communicate with your doctor and believe that you're being heard and then listen to your self, your gut, your instinct, >> intuition. Listen to yourself if you don't feel like you're being heard >> because there's data to support that.

[00:52:45]Not just with surgery, with surgery, it's like the worst honestly the biggest delta between um health outcome outcomes. But even in Medicare patient population, they they looked at hospitalized patients and if it was a female hospitalist taking care of that patient, they performed better. That means that about 32,000 patients would have lived in that year that they were doing this study had they been taken care of simply by a female physician.

[00:53:13]And there's another study that showed that if you walk into a Florida ER, I just think these are fascinating because it really I think validates sometimes women have intuition that they don't follow, >> right?

[00:53:23]>> And so if you walk into a Florida ER, they did 20 years of history in 580,000 patients. And they said, if you were having um symptoms of a heart attack, did it matter if you saw a female ER doctor or a male ER doctor if you lived?

[00:53:37]And the answer was yes. If you saw a female ER doctor, you had a better chance of living full stop. It was worse if you were a female minority. You know, the delta is always greater if you're any kind of non-dominant group, but if you were white male, >> it wasn't that important. You could see a male or a female and you know, you were going to be okay.

[00:53:56]>> They live anything else.

[00:53:57]>> Those [ __ ] live through everything, >> right? And so that's why I also want to give this talk because I really really want patients. I want women to know specifically number one um you can embrace your own sexual yourself as a being a sexual being and it can make you more powerful as a woman. Number two, we need to start naming our body parts correctly because we got to teach the next generation. And then number three, you have to protect yourself from harm >> medically because we don't really know.

[00:54:23]Not all of us know and I' I'd honestly say most of us don't know this information. um not only just about clitoreral nerves but also let's just look at the meta analyses that have been done uh for the out the the performance of female physicians which is just >> you know a phenomenal statistic that actually two of my kids graduated from med school in the last few years. Both of them were taught that that female physicians have lower mortality for their patients.

[00:54:51]>> They weren't taught about the clitoris >> but they were taught that >> baby steps. baby steps.

[00:54:58]Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, that's another thing I did want to talk about.

[00:55:02]>> Yeah. I love it. Thank you so much for coming on and for being your beautiful self and just >> Thank you so much. And I loved your podcast on uh sexual health and sexual >> pleasure.

[00:55:15]>> Sexual pleasure.

[00:55:16]>> Pleasure seeker.

[00:55:18]>> I know. So, I know this is right up your alley. So, yes, I really do appreciate it. You're getting the word out.

[00:55:24]>> Yep. That's the plan. All right, Nina, if people want to find you, how do they find you? How do they work with you? How do they come to your patient? Tell us everything.

[00:55:32]>> Yeah, I think the easiest way is probably just to Google nadep.com because that goes right to my website.

[00:55:37]There's a link there to my other website which is it's called the clitoris.com.

[00:55:41]So, if they want to have me speak. I am always willing to speak to large groups and small. And um then if they have any other questions about, you know, what we do in Columbus, then.com is the best place.

[00:55:53]>> Yeah. Amazing. Thank you so much. I know you're going to help so many of my listeners today and I appreciate it so much.

[00:56:01]>> Well, thank you so much.

[00:56:03]>> All right. See you all here next week. I can't promise it'll be as exciting as this one, but we'll try.

[00:56:10]All right, let me stop recording here.