Africa must reclaim its authentic indigenous knowledge systems and cultural identity to achieve true self-determination, as Western civilization represents a parasitic system that has systematically appropriated African history, resources, and cultural practices while promoting a false narrative of white supremacy; liberation requires Africans to prioritize economic empowerment, restore traditional governance structures, and develop indigenous solutions rather than adopting foreign systems that perpetuate dependency and cultural erasure.
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Changambire Maponga Mara-Rah: Truth, Tradition and the future of the continent, Afrika.Added:
What's your biggest concern right now for Africa?
What keeps you awake about Africa?
>> When a person has been in in prison for a long time and then freedom is announced and then people carry their chains, remove the door they decorate the prison.
>> Yes.
>> They are free but they don't want to walk away from the prison. Some of them start put putting decorations on their chains.
>> Yes.
>> And they walk around shouting freedom.
>> Yes.
>> And you will want to define freedom must be self-determination.
>> Yes.
>> Freedom must be restoration of previously disenfranchised resources.
>> Yes.
>> Freedom must be the ability to refine your voice.
>> Yes.
>> Retrace your ancestral roots.
>> Yes.
>> Freedom is washing away from embarrassment.
>> Mhm.
>> Freedom is you regaining your rituals.
>> Yes.
>> Freedom is you determining your own governance structures.
>> Mhm.
>> Freedom is food.
>> Yes.
>> We are eating what we want. Freedom is medicine.
>> Yes.
>> We are healing ourselves the way we want to heal ourselves. We give birth to our children. We want to migrate and graze all our cattle. Do our ceremonies and I could go on into a whole cultural symposium of what Africa was prior to colonization. I am not saying we go back and we put on our skins but if we do it ignore must be offended by that.
And the science of our spirituality based on our historical superiority >> Mhm.
>> We must even understand even things we call primitive.
If you study them closely, you find that there's a thousands of years of research that has gone into an African woman putting her child in a dish full of rubbish and clay and mud and cow dung and doing all that that's immunization.
It is best introducing natural bacteria to the body of the child so that so in as much as you may look at it from the western world and acclimatize with the bacteria. So even what you consider to be primitive the way we greet, the way we talk, the way we interact with the social and natural to me it's it's I wish the academic students would throw away their PhDs and do real PhDs where you come to African culture and you're not judging it, but you're learning from it. So what pains me is to see Africans who say they're educated, but their education has actually made them know everything about the other except about themselves.
>> Do you feel western civilization western education is a tool of colonization in itself?
>> I can't even call it western civilization because the west does not have a civilization.
>> What do they have?
>> They have plagiarized.
They have a different >> It's a different civilization.
>> They have a pirated version. They have a parasite kind of I mean look at the American dollar, what do you find on it?
Whole Egyptian pyramid.
Are you claiming that this is your civilization? That's stolen civilization. Look at uh science, look at formulas, look at alchemy in its basic form of Egyptology and you find that actually all the formulas >> Mhm.
>> western world the binary uh computers is done on our traditional games that we play those two by two by two by two and calculations. So when you look at medicines, what have they discovered?
Plastic medicines vis-a-vis organic medicine and [clears throat] there's this civilization. What is if if I can ask you a simple question, what is American civilization?
Or what is western civilization? What would you call it?
>> They are all civilizations borrowed from different different cultures.
>> I'll make it clear and even deeper for you. What do you call Western civilization? It's vandalism of nature.
It's material extraction, creation of tools, disregarding everything else that is natural.
>> You feel it doesn't conserve.
>> They don't conserve. They don't even have it in themselves. Hence, our totemic knowledge of nature, birds, animals, butterflies, trees, and soil.
As an African, you you you are a custodian of these elements, and you live with them. You live within them.
You die and you go back to them. Yeah.
So, and and that knowledge is absent from what you want to call a civilization. So, if this concept of Western civilization is allowed to continue the way it is, then we are going to turn this whole world into concrete jungle.
>> True.
>> And then, what do we remain with after that? Eating plastic foods that Bill Gates is coming up with?
Having artificial mosquitoes that are now in the in the environment? Having our women sterilized?
>> Yeah.
>> And having guns, having nuclear to exterminate life on the continent or on the planet? And you call that civilization?
I think we are giving them too much credit to even call it civilization.
Because with the direction that America is going right now, with the direction that China is going, with the direction that Russia is going, and some of the Middle Eastern countries going, this whole mechanization, robotics, children will no longer be born from you, will be born from test tubes, and stuff like that. You call that civilization? I would understand these as interventions of irregularities within the human body, but making that the default of human existence, I think we're losing humanity.
We're into the missions.
>> We are.
>> And I can't call that civilization.
I can't even dignify it.
>> Wow.
>> Let's call it destruction.
>> Wow.
I know you I've heard you talk about the works of Frantz Fanon, an Algerian who did his research in 1952, um talking about white black skin, white mask.
And the whitening of the African culture, how that they everything just start becoming white from the 1800s and the white Jesus, the white Egyptian ancestors and the white all that. How deep do you think that has gone in terms of African religion?
>> Firstly, you need to qualify.
Why is the Western civilization so obsessed with owning African history?
Why would you want the pharaohs of North Africa to be white? Why do you want Cleopatra to be white? Why do you want Jesus to be white? Why? For the convenience of going to the center of people's history >> Mhm.
>> and owning that history, usurping that history. Almost become the life of a parasite. And I think going forward, we need to change the name of the white people or the colonialists or the Caucasians. Their real identity must be that of parasites.
Because a parasite is a species, >> Yeah.
>> either animal, plant >> lives off another species.
>> And then it finds itself, it leeches itself >> Yes.
>> onto a living >> Yeah.
>> organism >> Yeah.
>> that has its own DNA, its own lifestyle and etc. And then it begins >> to live off >> to drink >> Yeah.
>> from and it multiplies itself >> Yes.
>> on the host.
>> Yes.
>> And in some certain cases, the parasites can multiply themselves so much that they end up actually killing the host. And after they kill the host, number one, they die. Number two, they migrate and look for another host again where they can live.
>> Yes.
>> And I'm saying this from a from a distance, hoping that you can hear.
>> Yes.
>> Why are these Yurugus, as you call as we call them, why are these Yurugus finding the African host as a fertile ground on which they can feed themselves? Isn't it not funny that the British talk and the Europeans talk about the bad figures of the Africans, yet when you look into the history of the very Europeans, they wear clothes that have wires inside that exaggerate the bumps.
>> Yes.
>> Exaggerate the breasts.
>> Yes.
>> In your classrooms and in your fashion you say this is not sexy.
This is backward. This is African. This is that. It's derogatory.
But in your sentiments and in your [clears throat] in your seeking to make yourself superior and look beautiful >> Yes.
>> you still go and emulate the very things that I mean, look at them coming for holidays. They all come with sunscreens.
>> Yes.
>> Rub them and they sit and they lie down in the sun. For what?
They want a bit of tinting on their skin. But the black skin is bad.
But no, you can actually go and tint it.
>> Mhm.
>> And look at slightly blackened. Looks better.
>> Wow.
>> The your thin lips are too small. Then they go and pump in some gels >> Yes.
>> to have big lips like Africans. Like the history, the science can tell you the injections. They go to town >> Yeah.
>> to buff up. And maybe this is the schizophrenic to use a more to use a more psychological term that the very thing that you hate so much is a Yurugu.
>> What you're trying to >> Yet you you you you make it look undesirable.
But that's the very thing that you desire the most.
>> True.
>> Isn't that not funny?
>> And that was what Frantz Fanon postulated. He likened the effect of colonization to a psychological wound.
And a deep deep psychological wound.
Recently we saw Macron was in Kenya.
>> Mhm.
>> Gathering West African leaders. He's feeling in his aisle.
When you saw that, how did you feel?
>> I I had just arrived from Burkina Faso when I saw that. I had taken a drive from uh from Ghana into Kumasi into the Bisa land and ended up arriving to um Burkina Faso.
Um >> [snorts] >> where we were, we received uh royal welcome from the government.
>> The government.
>> And when you pick the history of uh Burkina Faso the destruction that the French government >> have done >> has done are still doing >> Yes.
>> and trying to do.
>> Yes.
>> 15 coups so far >> Yes.
>> that uh Ibrahim Traore has gone through.
The 30 countries directly affected and 15 of them more intensely affected by France in terms of keeping all their national resources in France.
>> Yes.
>> And when you want to call your money back to build your roads, it's a loan.
You must pay with an interest.
>> Yeah.
>> You know how they structured these things and the presidents that are running in these 15 countries actually being appointees of the French French as governors as it were >> Yeah.
>> to the Africans.
>> Yes.
>> And then the man comes around here with the 20 billion 20 billion dollars which [snorts] we know it's not his money.
It's actually money stolen from a neighbor.
>> Yes.
>> It's you, Femi your brother your your brother Adebayo or your brother Oladele and etc. and your family and I go and steal money from Oladele >> Mhm.
>> and then I come to you with a smile and say, "My brother, I want to borrow you some money."
>> And it's the same money stolen.
>> When you know that this is your brother's money, the question is how should you be responding to the man who's bringing that money?
That's how Macron looks to me. And that's how Ruto looks to me. That Ruto, you are a doctor, one of the most educated presidents we have on the continent right now.
And a small little checkup and we're sitting It's amazing we're even saying this while we're sitting in his hotel.
In in in in in Ruto's hotel.
That my brother, a small little research will tell you when a thief comes to you with the goods that he has stolen from your brother.
>> Yeah.
>> And he tries to convince you that he means good for you.
How much trust >> Yeah.
>> can you give to the thief? And when with the brothers here >> Mhm.
>> that actually the money that you received >> Yeah.
>> was stolen from them, how would they feel? Maybe I'm appealing to the human side of politics.
That we we need to start treating the Yugos the parasites for who they are. And like a rat that has been found in a kitchen, let's start removing all the furniture until it has no place to hide.
>> Mhm.
>> And I think Macron still finds corners in the African room >> Mhm.
>> where he can jump from the kitchen unit to the TV stand and to the and to as long as African leaders are giving this shield >> Yes.
>> to this thief.
>> Yes.
>> Uh we know cannot even talk about America and Nigeria. We cannot even talk about ISIS and Mozambique. We cannot even talk about Middle East Arabs and Somalia >> is involved in destabilizing Nigeria?
>> This is a pack of thieves and thugs who just transformed themselves. This is Bush.
This is uh Obama.
>> Yes.
>> And the establishment of Boko Haram and ISIS.
>> Yes.
>> A few years ago.
>> Yes.
>> There is their records.
>> Yes.
>> Even American Congress >> No, but they are public records of >> And the American government's admission that they actually contributed and sent up money to build up ISIS.
>> ISIS and Al-Qaeda.
>> Boko Haram and Al-Qaeda and all these things. So that they could destabilize the governments.
>> Yeah.
>> And a few years later you come around.
You want to solve the problem of the things that you created. I found that to be a bit hypocritical. But at the back of that never look at the gun.
Don't look even at the person that is holding the gun.
Start asking the question, who purchases the guns?
>> Uh-huh.
>> Who buys the bullets?
>> Uh >> Which bank is sponsoring this and who has business interests that must be sustained >> Uh-huh.
>> by the killing of Africans. Then immediately you come and ask, who is giving this money? You find a group of politicians. You go a bit step a one step back, you find insurance companies, you find manufacturers manufacturing companies of guns. At the back of that, you have the banks.
>> Mhm.
>> The financial institutions.
>> Yes.
>> IMF not excluded.
>> Yes.
>> World Bank not excluded.
>> Yes.
>> To give guarantees. So every bullet that kills an African there is actually a banker who has paid for the bullet to go and kill that. Politicians are tools in the hands of the financiers.
>> Yeah.
>> And politicians are lapdogs on the hands of the international >> believe that the crisis are not religious in any way?
>> Religion is religion is a is an avenue.
Religion creates the emotions. Because the Muslims are killing Christians.
Then all Christians become the they unite together. But it's it's it's a tool. They used at the end of the day your brother marries this one. You guys Though you try to put the religious boundaries, hence I've always said religion separates us. Spirituality unites us. And the fact that Islam from the Middle East and Christianity, not the authentic Christianity as found in the Ethiopian writings, the Ethiopian eunuchs, found in the Ethiopian history of Menelik and etc. where the Hebrew Jewish knowledge with the Ibos in Nigeria, with the Lembers and the Karangas in the south where the intrinsically the Hebrew Abrahamic faith is entrenched into culture itself. I'm not talking about that quality of our Hebraic connection to the historicity of the ancient biblical text as contrasted to >> [snorts] >> the modern the modern >> Yeah.
>> colonial Christianity which comes already dressed up in white with white liturgy and practice which has colors which are Roman, which has robes and gowns, which has languages and tongues, which are glossolalia from the Toronto blessings and etc. By the time this Christianity arrives in Africa in the 1900s, we are no longer dealing with Solomon and Abraham as black people.
>> Yeah.
>> They've already been painted. Now those white masks are really coming out of the closet and then you are told as an African, you need to believe this. He said, "No, but can you remove the mask?"
>> Mhm.
>> Can you remove the mask? And I think that was my my my bone of contention with the church when I said actually I could still say I believe but I don't believe in what you're showing me right now.
Can can I I'm academically circumcised to be able to access the data itself in its purity and I came to a moment when I discovered, no, you cannot be telling me that this is a can of Coke but inside you have put lemon juice.
Why the Why the hypocrisy?
>> Mhm.
>> Why not brand everything >> Ah.
>> so that you sell me exactly >> What?
>> Don't don't show me this.
>> Yeah.
And maybe this is this is even blows itself up into the one of my most uncomfortable conversations into the homosexuality and the lesbian LGBT space. Where I say you hate women so much.
But you want to look like a woman.
>> Mhm.
>> You say you hate men.
But your boyfriend must dress up like a man. You say you Sorry for the language.
You can cut this off if you don't need it. You you you hate But then you go and buy a plastic one.
>> Mhm.
>> I don't understand. Maybe maybe maybe I'm primitive. You guys need to help me.
Maybe I'm coming from an ancient space where you cannot say you hate men, but then your boyfriend must dress up like a tomboy.
>> Yeah.
>> Must dress up like a like a boy.
>> Something is wrong.
>> There's something is wrong.
>> Yeah.
>> Then then it is that kind of misguided double tongue >> Mhm.
>> [clears throat] >> language that you you you would think that you are accepting one thing.
>> Yes.
>> But by the time you accept it, yes, you discover that you've actually accepted on this particular case I'm talking about Christianity. You think you're accepting Christianity.
>> Mhm.
>> But by the time you finish accepting Christianity, you have inherited hatred for the Muslims.
You have inherited a usurped history.
>> Mhm.
>> You have accepted white supremacy.
>> Mhm.
>> You have accepted a white Jesus.
>> Mhm.
>> You you you have abandoned the earth.
You are now looking forward to go to heaven. No, no, I thought it was just about faith. No, no, no, it has nothing to do with faith. So if Christianity and Muslims are marketing departments of a deeper hatred and a bigger agenda which has financiers who make money out of the hatred of Muslims for Christianity and vis-a-vis.
Because that religion has become a vehicle through which monies can be cleaned, through which wars can be fought.
>> Monies can be cleaned.
>> Yes.
>> Wow.
>> And wars can be fought. And the churches will be in the front and say, "Muslims are killing Christians or Christians are killing Muslims."
Okay.
Then let's go to war. And the question is, will Christianity sponsor that? No, the financiers are now rubbing their hands and they're shaking hands with politicians because immediately that war begins in Congo, between Somalia, between Ethiopia, between Libya, minerals are being are being withdrawn. Between Iran, it has nothing to do with guns and drones. There's Strait of Hormuz, the oil. Here is the real battle, Afghanistan. It is the drugs that are at war and the rare earth minerals. So, in in Venezuela, it is nothing to do with Maduro. It is the oil that is there and until we understand who needs the oil, it's not the people who needs the oil.
It's the bank [clears throat] that must make the money. So, you you will need to study carefully and look at the four structures of the society.
Number one, it is the business structures where the banks are sitting.
Yes. Number two, it is the politician who has been bought and put in office Yes. by the banker. Yes. Number three, the politician's business is to make sure that he legislates and put legal frameworks that allow the business to run. And the politician is just a prostitute of the economist and ultimately of propaganda and religion and education who must now promote this structure that this is how the society must be run. So, if you understand how colonial systems run, in my own submission, therefore, let African people start making money.
Poor people have no choices. And as long as we are poor, we have no decisions.
Make the money. And after we make the money as Africans, it might sound very raw, but let the Dangotes, let the Motsepes of this world buy the politicians.
What do I mean by that? Put people in power who will protect the indigenous African business models. Yes. And then write the laws.
Away from the Roman Dutch law. Yes.
Let's begin to have our own indigenous governance systems.
And after that, let's write our curriculums and re-educate our children the way we want them to grow. Now, for us to begin to talk these conversations and we are arguing propaganda.
We are arguing religion. We are arguing social media. We are arguing opinions.
We are arguing changing politicians. But we can change as many politicians as you want, but the bottom part of the politician when he gets into power, he has to deal with the constitution.
Yes.
He has to deal with the parliament. Yes.
He has to deal with the bank. Yes. And these institutions don't care who is in power as long as he complies.
That's where Ibrahim Traore becomes notorious.
Because he does not only come to become a politician who is running propaganda.
He comes back and says, "We are taking back all our resources."
>> Oh, yes. We control it ourselves.
>> We are closing all the French industries and we are owning them.
>> Yes.
>> We are not going to be running all this parade of constantly doing elections and wasting our money. Development is coming first. When the country is stabilized and our resources are in our hands, let's see how people want to govern themselves when we get there.
>> Wow. Do you feel any African nation can develop through democracy?
>> My brother, you are asking me if a Samsung phone can use iPhone software.
>> [laughter] >> Try try try now. You You have a Samsung phone. You have an iPhone. Try and send pictures. Just a basic thing. Try and send pictures and tell me how much software you need to downgrade, upgrade.
And many of the software you read as error error error. I say so with a great amount of understanding that for us to get here as Africans, whether it is the civilizations of Benin or the civilizations of Nigeria. It could be Axum. It could be Carthage. It could be Great Zimbabwe. It could be Sudan.
When you look into those kind of civilizations which are 200,000 years old, how did we make it?
>> 200,000 years old?
>> Yes, my brother.
>> 200,000 years old? What calendar are you following?
>> Well, not you know the 6,000. The 6,000 history of the Bible and it's a very ancient very ancient with the building up of the Israeli ideology. But when you look at it, no, no, no, no, no. I'm coming there.
I'm coming there because when you understand that Yeshua is brought to Israel, he was not coming to to Egypt. He was not coming to an empty Egypt. When you deal with Jacob coming to Egypt, he wasn't coming to an empty Egypt. He was coming to an empty Egypt. He was coming to civilization. When you look at Abraham going coming from Ur of the Chaldees, he's not coming from primitiveness. When you look at Nimrod building nine cities, he's not building villages. When you hear Cain saying, "When I go to the north, they will kill me."
He's only admitting that there are other people that are outside there. So, you may not look at the Bible maybe away from it and say it was the building up of the Eden story, the starting of humanity, or we are looking at God Yahweh establishing a nation within a nation. Because even issues of fossilization and cetera, we cannot use the Bible to account for that.
>> We do go into fossilization, yes.
>> So, another civilization should be outside there. And the Bible then stops becoming a historical book but becomes a center of ethical behavior and teachings and etc. So, even when the God created the heavens and the earth, is it literal heavens and earth? Because when he created it, water was there.
>> Yeah.
>> Darkness was there.
>> Yes.
>> Air was there.
And he comes in to recreate what was there.
But the question is, is this all that was there or there was something else that was outside there? What was underneath the soil? What was underneath the water? And when he calls things out of that, is it physical? Is it literal?
Is it spiritual? Is Genesis 1 God creating or is Genesis 1 you beginning to walk through your own darkness, creating your own environment, separating your waters, planting your your So, maybe it's a way of perspective and interpretation. That the whole Bible becomes fresh for me. But I'm I'm even writing my own gospel, the gospel of Mamphela Ramphele. And that's the angle I'm beginning to come up with that.
>> serious?
>> Yes, I've done 430 450 chapters so far.
It's it's almost getting there.
So, an interpretation becomes important.
Because once you walk in Genesis 1 as a as a child of who, where, then you you get swallowed again in the same in the same propaganda, in the same liturgy.
But if you can go back and say, "If this is what my father did in Genesis 1, and I stand here in my own Genesis, in my own gen- beginning, >> Yeah.
>> what is it that then I can run and build and create and plant? Then even the issue of the commandments no longer become an issue. Because it is the principles that I must use in governing myself rather than the church enforcing them on me or the state enforcing them on me. It has become moral ethical behavior, which is Ubuntu in its basic, >> Yeah.
>> coming in Kemet and you call that the Ma'at laws, which which we have been which which are more affirmative in Ma'at than they are condemning in in in the in the Jewish Bible. I have not taken someone's wife.
>> Mhm.
>> I have not killed an animal. I have not >> Not stolen.
>> stolen. You are confirming within your own spirit. Not thou shalt not.
>> Yeah.
>> Thou shalt not is more reprimanding.
I have not I have understand my relationship >> And I've embodied it.
>> I It's It's in me. I have not done that.
While I am doing my Genesis and doing my creation, and then on the sixth day of course you must forget your wife. And you must rest on the on the So even the concepts of rest, marriage, agriculture, are all inculcated into that. And I think people the white people have come with the Bible to teach us only dogma, but they've not taught us lifestyle. Because on the same text we could find ethics, agriculture, family establishment, societal conservation.
Do you not feel that maybe we have the responsibility to learn certain things ourselves? I What You've said many things, but one of your most resounding statement that stood with me is that the church prayed and taught for my kind to rise. When I rose they did not recognize me.
I I don't blame them. You can never blame a blind person for not seeing.
Ah. And you cannot measure the the strength of a fish by its ability to climb a tree.
Ah.
They swim. The the their system has not been built like that.
Their system has not been established to improve you to reach your your maximum and then utilize that. You you you have you have boundaries. You might start off as the deacon. You become an elder. You become a pastor. You become a >> [snorts] >> bishop. You become a father. And you you stop somewhere there because then the pope is there or the president is there.
And you cannot go further than that. You must wait for them to die. And uh that's how you prove that you're you're really committed to the system >> Mhm.
>> by just waiting there and waiting for someone to die. Now, what kind of a career person would sitting around Are you not Are you not a witch? Can you imagine you're now waiting for someone to die?
>> So you can >> So that you can take their position as if this is the dead end. And I moved so fast in my career that I reached I reached that wall. I was in the ministry by the time I was 14, 15.
I was already training. By 19 I had my first degree. At 20 I had my second degree. And at uh 21 I was already running more than 25 churches, and uh well 33 years later, you look at me, I look like a young man, but I mean I have literally 33, if not 34 years of service under my collar. I should retire. So, I retired myself. Noticing that maybe And and again, I I felt sorry that if I would push hard for the system, I would break it apart.
And when I break it apart, some there's some people there who are really vulnerable, and I felt some of my consolidated information would mean that the entire belief systems must be must be rewritten. Yeah. And uh the Bible story says that if white caricature and white images must be destroyed and rewritten.
>> Would you have believed in the Bible if there was no white man?
>> The Bible is not is even less than scripture.
The Bible only has 66 books. Scriptures had 80 88 books.
>> about both the deuterocanonical or all the canons >> And the question is who chose that these books must be here? And these ones must be there.
>> a council, the Council of Nicea.
>> And who uh I was not in that council. I I am a grown-up, I'm a theologian. I have I I I I I have access.
>> There were things that were consulted, that were looked into to determine which ones should be canon, and which ones should be deuterocanonical. And one of it is the consistency of thoughts with the doctrines of Christ. Do you think those were faulty?
>> Im- Imagine in the midst of looking for consistency, you come up with a white guy.
>> Yeah.
>> And then you say, "This is not even consistent."
>> But the idea of the white Jesus never came about until 1850-something.
That was about thousands of years after the Council of >> The the the exclusion >> Yes.
>> of books of scripture >> Yes.
>> must not be a human exercise.
>> Ah.
>> We were taking responsibility, but you can only do that within a Pontifex Maximus uh environment, where the Pope says, "I am the king of the heavens on earth and underneath the earth. And whatever I bind on earth must also be bound. So by Christians accepting the Bible, they're actually Catholic.
Because you are giving a man power over scripture.
>> Which man?
>> The Pope.
>> Not all Christians have allegiance to the Pope.
>> The Bible itself is a gift from the Catholic Church.
>> It was in their custody for a while.
>> That's the only thing.
>> Until Martin Luther came.
>> Yeah.
>> And there was a great reform.
>> He only transformed a few books and the rest of them he left in the head.
So the Catholic Church actually gave you the Bible, but their Bible has all the books.
The Christian book Bible does not have all the books. So maybe that's a question for another day. Are you saying the Catholics are not Christians?
They are Catholics. They're not Christians.
>> What are they?
>> They're Catholics.
>> But they are Christians.
>> They bridge between You just agreed that the Pope They are They are a bridge between paganism and Christianity.
>> Yeah.
>> Then Constantine was not interested in Christianity.
>> I'm even talking in respect to face value, not in respect to practice.
>> Yeah, I'm with you.
>> We take Christians as a religion. They identify as one.
>> My my brother, let's let's be more candid.
The way we've accepted Christianity has not been on spirituality. It has been mechanical.
Very mechanical.
In my in my understanding.
>> And why is that?
>> That's how the system survives.
The system does not want to have a relationship with God, which is personal, which the church cannot supervise.
So you need the church. You need the system. You need the bishop. You need the pastor. Because he's the connector, the mediator between you and him. But if we really believed in spirituality in its essence, then every father of a house must be able to conduct his own communion service with his family and his children. And my spirituality cannot be >> Maybe some interjection to that will be that if we look at the coming together of Christians, we see a community.
And then maybe one of the things that the Bible also said, "How will shall they know except that they are taught?"
>> [snorts] >> Maybe we can and the Bible not as a literal book that anyone can just understand that needs rules in terms of interpretations and there is a need to be schooled for those interpretations and that's where a teacher comes in.
How about that?
>> A teacher comes in to teach you what he knows.
>> He ought to teach what the Bible says.
>> What if the teacher himself has been mistaught?
>> We have that.
>> Then what does the teacher teach?
>> He teach from that misguidance.
>> And what happens to the congregation?
>> Misinformed.
>> I think your answer is somewhere there.
So it's not just about teaching.
It's about correct teaching.
And the question now in the whole 37,000 churches on the face of the earth each one of them claiming to be correct who is correct?
>> Each one of them claim >> Each one of them from Episcopal to Lutheran Anglican Adventist to Catholic Pentecostals to Charismatics one Bible, one devil one Jesus.
>> But each one have different >> Each one of them is the truth.
And the other is teaching the lie.
So where do you begin to talk about truth?
>> Maybe the question is what is truth?
That's a deep question.
>> Nicodemus, what is truth?
>> That's a very serious question.
>> What would you deem to be truth? But you can ask me what is truth.
>> What is truth?
>> It is a human being living in harmony with nature and the relationships that have been established to be protected by his presence.
>> Do you exclude God from that definition?
>> If God has made all these things then your existence amongst them is the presence of the one who has created you.
>> [snorts] >> The way God designed it is for his nature to be reflected in nature itself.
>> Yeah, that's true.
>> So nature ought to carry a semblance and project who God is. I I will agree with you.
>> again >> Yes.
>> I'm allowing you to I'm allowing that one to slide.
Because God is an is an is is an absent.
>> Do you feel the idea of God is a myth?
>> Hold on. God is an absent uh noun.
It is just an appellation of a presence of the supernatural until you give him a name.
It's just like saying I saw a man until you define what kind of a man then we're starting to talk. So when he says don't have other gods before me he cannot remain God when he actually admits that there are other gods. So until you give me his name God means nothing. You're just saying I I met a man.
Tell me tell me his name.
Then I'll know what you know what you're talking about.
Because when you say God to a Chinese something else.
When you say God to an Indian something else. When you say God to an to an Orisha or something [clears throat] else. When you say God to a Quetzalcoatl something else. So to say I believe in God you you have entangled yourself into a pot of universality without definition.
>> you believe in God?
>> I don't believe in God. I know God.
>> [sighs] >> Belief is for those who don't know.
Faith is for non-believers.
>> How is that?
>> Faith is for non-believers.
>> For instance, I don't believe you're here. I know you're here.
>> Thank you.
>> It is in that sense that you say.
>> of difference.
And and the God that I know is not the God that is hiding in a book.
He's a God through which I am through which I come. The one who made no mistake by giving me this genealogy for you to see me today. From wherever he is standing I have not died.
I've just moved from one body into another.
>> But this is exactly what the Bible affirms.
>> Then if if then for the first time we can to be on the same page.
>> Because the Bible teaches that the very nature of God can be seen in the things that he has made.
>> And when I look at that God I look at him I look at him through me.
And there's no way that one who made all these to be here can be different from what I am.
We were made in his image.
You are quoting Genesis 1:26.
Yeah.
>> I get I get in the sense that you said that. I think most of the problems that we have began in the 1800s where they began the whiting the whitening concept.
And in myself I'm angry about many things but there's a more um serious question I'd like to ask you.
You're not getting younger.
>> Yeah, I'm getting older.
I'm going >> I listen to your thoughts.
I'm concerned.
>> Mhm.
>> I see the burden with which you do what you do the passion the zeal. Do you feel the next generation are walking in your footsteps?
>> Uh what makes me so excited about my old age is when 9-year-old boy drags his father I'm in Johannesburg at a conference. And the 9-year-old boy drags his father when he heard that I had a conference somewhere in Midrand.
>> Yes.
>> And he brought his father.
And he introduced his father to me.
>> Interesting.
>> And the boy said to the father, "Follow this man."
Cuz the young boy is following.
>> Wow.
>> And he has learned.
>> Wow.
>> Wow. And I said to myself, "You the older guys above 30 35 I can't help you."
>> You can't help me.
>> I can't help you.
Some of you are so polluted that you won't hear the purity of who you are without judging it against what you know.
So one of our greatest enemies right now has become previously acquired information.
Where we've been in the system, we've already been contaminated to a certain level that to even if we clean it up it's like a dress that has been touched with the with grease.
You still see some stains in your mind.
But to the innocent young people when I say what I'm saying that stand in your Genesis and start creating they hear with a freshness of no contamination and it appeals >> feel if we're going to get Africa to where it should be, we should focus on the younger generation.
>> This Bible I'm writing is a Bible. Put it in write Put it in words and underline what I'm saying.
Put it somewhere >> Mhm.
>> where the generations to follow >> Mhm.
>> will read it.
And let them know I said it and you're a witness to that.
>> Yes.
>> This text that I'm writing will become a Bible that will be used by the next generation.
>> You believe so?
>> They will No, I don't believe so. I know.
>> so.
>> I know so.
I'm giving a prophecy in time.
>> Can I ask you a very serious question?
>> Mhm.
>> Does it bother you that some people they want people like you out of the way?
>> It's convenient to get us out of the way. We are nuisance to the system.
Because one we are not politicians. Because politics itself is a is a brothel of truth.
>> I agree.
>> We are not wanted in church.
Because we're demanding for more from the system that claims to be in relationship with God.
We are not wanted in the communities and some of the cultural spaces.
Because we challenge that even culture has been colonized also.
The royalties have a problem with us because even their sense of their royalty is according to the British royalty.
We are not wanted in land disputes because we talk about the spirituality of land. So the lens through which we doing our anthropological interpretation and relevance to life, [clears throat] you're almost challenging the entire system. And people when they hear you talk, it's almost like it's too much.
It's too much.
You are meaning we must change everything. Yes.
Change everything. How can you be so comfortable to sleep in the same house with the abuser? And you make him tea and coffee. And you it just become part of your life. But you no longer you no longer feels like he's a threat to you.
I'm saying no, for crying out loud. Why not bundle these guys and drop them back in the sea where they come from? Where they come from?
Why not allowed to reset? Why not allowed to start healing ourselves away from the perpetrators of our own pain?
So yes, some people would want us off the the record. Politicians are not comfortable. Pastors are not comfortable. Medical doctors are not comfortable. Pharmaceuticals are not comfortable.
>> Yeah, not comfortable.
>> Cuz we're calling people to default, to factory settings. The apps that we have loaded onto our phones here have cluttered our system. It's even slowing down in terms of work. Can we just go to settings, scroll down at the bottom there?
One of the last if you have a Android phone >> Mhm.
>> on your settings.
>> Yeah.
>> One of the last ones at the bottom there, there's one that says reset.
>> Factory settings.
>> Yes.
>> And when you before you delete everything, it asks you, do you do you >> [laughter] >> do you have any any apps that are here?
And pictures and documents that please remove them.
Cuz once you press that button, and you begin to see that robot >> Yes.
>> making tens, it's chewing everything.
And at least it gives your phone >> [snorts] >> a new start.
>> a new a new start. And if I could be asking you as a social person in the community person, if you are given an opportunity to press that button, which apps in the society right now would you want to get rid of?
I've been there.
And I've thought through.
And I'm sorry I might be shocking you to push you to a to make a commitment to a certain decision where you have not yet processed. But, take your time. When you have gone through it and you have Look at your society in its seven structures of existence, your governance, your agriculture, your business and economics, your your your your No. Gove- governance, >> business, >> education, >> education, you know, sports and recreation, family and etc., spirituality, health and technology. And you put all the seven apps that are functioning. Underneath these apps are all sorts of organizations that are that are running and infrastructures that are running. And you have a chance to see which ones would you want to reset?
Okay. Your governance. Are you happy with your way your government is running?
>> No, definitely not.
>> Agriculture. Are you happy with the food that you're eating?
>> No.
>> Education. Are you happy with the quality of education that you're receiving?
>> Your banking. Are you happy with the banking the way it's happening?
>> Health and technology. Are you happy with it?
>> No.
>> Sports and recreation. Are we going anywhere?
>> Spirituality.
>> And are you happy with the way spirituality and religion is going? Then you have all those apps that are running now, the the hardware of the African mind. And I say, "Please delete and reset."
Then you come back again to the same structure and say, "How did we used to govern ourselves?
How did we used to educate ourselves?
How did we used to do business? What kind of food did we used to eat? What kind of sports did we used to have? What kind of health and technology did we apply? Ultimately, what kind of spirituality did we have? How much pollution has happened within that area?" Wrote a book entitled African African Solutions where I've battled with this concept and threshed it out that if we are supposed to delete and reset, >> Mhm.
>> then the way we run African government and and I think this is for me the blueprint of colonization. And it will be the blueprint of our liberation.
I was given that.
And I've shared that with you freely.
>> Wow. [sighs] Which African nation right now is the biggest disappointment to you?
>> I should say Cameroon takes the trophy.
I can't I can't process how a man in a >> Which one will come next?
>> Nigeria.
>> Ah.
>> Yeah, followed by South Africa.
>> Ah.
>> Followed by Kenya.
>> Wow.
>> I say it's all strategically.
South Africa becoming the biggest business industry almost in a civilized colonial way.
Nigeria becoming the biggest in terms of population also with business that can support that.
Kenya becoming the access door to Eastern Africa and the cradle of humankind.
>> Mhm.
>> As I was saying with the all of the day in the morning, if we had a way of pulling these three countries together into one conference.
>> Kenya, Nigeria, and South Africa.
>> To sit down.
>> The decisions [clears throat] that these three countries are making on the continent is affecting all of us.
And I can tell you now, Kenya is in bed with America and with France as we speaking now.
South Africa is in bed with America and Britain and the Africanas that are there, all white.
And finally, Nigeria is in bed with who?
Just look at the way the guns are coming from. Just look at the war that is happening. It's in bed with the Arabs, in bed with Americans.
And we have not yet as the three big brothers on the continent put our muscles and comparing who has got bigger hands than the other and sit together and set up an agenda of the three centers of power within the African continent and say, "How does Kenya contribute towards the Rift Valley cradle of mankind? How does South Africa help us to sort out the West? And how does Nigeria mobilize? How would funny that next door to you Nigeria you could be putting Burkina Faso on sanctions and yet you are a bigger brother next door.
You have 10, 15, 20 times bigger the population of Burkina Faso. But you run around bullying young young guys and stuff like that. I mean, look at what the role Nigeria can play both in terms of raw material, mental capacity, HR.
And and and had we been able to put these three countries maybe put together into a conversation we could have just begin to see maybe three federal states or three federal centers of power within Africa through which we can begin to talk about the one Africa concept as a as as a takeoff. But Biya for me in Cameroon uh there are some people you wish to they must die.
Because long live long life is not a blessing to a wicked man.
And you become wicked when the pain of your people no longer becomes your pain.
>> But you know Biya is not in charge.
He's just a figure head.
>> You said what was your most disappointing You asked me a question, did you? I was trying to answer to your question that the the whole country of Cameroon that old man must be in a psychiatric ward.
He must be in a hospital. He must be with his grandchildren.
He has lost his mind.
He's in a state that we cannot even talk.
And yet you you you want [snorts and clears throat] to say he just should be there. It's a it's a circus. That we know the French government is running that. But anyway, you asked me a question, there's your answer. Cameroon >> Cameroon.
Coming Krumah shouted. He cried for a long time. He wanted Africa to unite.
He was removed through the coup.
Ghanaians rejoiced.
When Patrice Lumumba was going to be assassinated the people of Congo then rejoiced.
Most of our African heroes, when the way that killed or ousted out of power, the immediate people rejoiced. And [snorts] this is talking this is showing us a lot about how in every generation the crowd get engineered that they cannot recognize >> Libya. Go to Libya, my brother. Go to Libya.
>> when Gaddafi was >> Go to Iraq. Go to Iraq. Go to Iraq.
>> They rejoiced when Saddam Hussein >> Go to Venezuela.
>> But they rejoiced when >> Go to Afghanistan.
>> True.
>> But then walk backwards again.
And say, "What how long did they rejoice?"
>> Yeah.
>> Go to Libya.
>> Yes.
>> Go to the celebration that they had on the streets. It lasted for how many days?
Go to Libya right now. It's a slave market.
>> Yes, it is.
>> People are being sold into slavery as we speak.
>> So, yeah.
>> You're right.
Politics is a prostitute of economics.
People can be engineered.
The other day we found in Tanzania here young men who who had received millions to go and burn the harbor which before elections.
2,500 people dead.
And another young man with the money in his pocket.
And these are the young Gen Zs whom we thought they really were fighting for the revolution.
I'll be in Tanzania a few days from now to actually go and start cleaning and fixing and talking and say, "Not all revolutionaries are revolutionaries."
>> Ah, say that again. Not all revolutionaries >> No, we have enemies, you know, I mean.
>> Some are sponsored by >> You you go back in Sinkara. Who killed?
It's own blood, brother.
Blood brothers, we're sleeping in the same bed.
>> Yes.
>> Who received money.
>> Yes.
>> Confessions of of young men who have been given money to kill Torori are all over.
Look at all African leaders. Who kills them? Fellow Africans. The question is that do you kill him because you hate him or you kill him because someone has paid you to kill him?
>> Do you now believe do you then believe we have our own problems?
>> I don't even want to to go that far and say we have our own problems.
And I failed to see the third hand that is always mingling mingling in our in our in our issues. So at the end of the day yes we have a problem and our problem is that of poverty hunger greed.
And and and and when it manifests itself in terms of eliminating each other then it this monster changes because now we have become we have adopted the same the same greed of the colonizer and the parasite themselves. We have also become parasites on and similarly so given some of our governments and some of our government leaders have become parasites on the very same system that must liberate their people. Why? Because they are sitting in conversation with multinational companies who are feeding their pockets and putting money in Cayman Islands and in Mauritius and in in [clears throat] Zurich. And they are there signing contracts 99 year lease.
We are going to be extracting minerals from this country.
And why do you think the country that it has been given the 99 year lease will want to see the leader leaving power in five years. And they know that when the new leader comes he might cancel this contract. So you notice that even some of the long-term presidential offices that we have are not being sustained by the ruling parties of those countries.
They are being sustained by the multinational companies who have vested interest to make sure that this leader even if he can be in power for 40 years as long as we are extracting.
Why are they now complaining that Mali must bring back that that that that president? Except that France had contracts with him and when they can help him to get back into power the question is where is his allegiance?
With you as the people who are saying bring him out or with them who have brought him out?
I don't think you don't you don't need mathematics for this one.
The one who pays the piper >> dictates the tune.
>> The tune my brother you dance according to my tune.
And the question is when you want to really look at corruption in Africa, follow the money for the campaign.
>> Follow the money.
>> For the campaign.
>> Yeah.
>> The one who put money into the campaign is your president in the shadows.
>> Ah. [sighs] >> So, when I say politics is a prostitute of economics, I want you to swallow that one slowly.
>> Mhm.
>> That there is no politician have no money. And I will say this again on your podcast for the rest of the world to hear. Any politician who becomes a millionaire when he gets into parliament is a thief.
>> Wow.
>> Cuz where do you get the money from?
You earning 5, 15,000 a month and 2 years later you're a millionaire. We know how you made the millions.
>> Mhm.
>> There was a contract coming from a foreign country.
>> Wow.
>> And it was in your department.
>> Wow.
>> Whether to supply computers or to supply machinery >> Wow.
>> or to supply cars or to supply agricultural equipment. You sit with them, how much is the contract? The contract is 250 million. Then you scratch them on the side and say, of the 250 million, so for oiling the system, how much must I get? Then you get your 25% or your 10% or please keep it there.
Just bring the machinery this side. Few years later you go to Dubai.
>> You >> Your money is there waiting for you.
Boom, you come with your 4x4s. You don't even have time to repair the potholes on your road because now you have a 4x4 that can run over the potholes. So, where do you get the money from? And I'm being honest, if any millionaire minister is out there who went into parliament with no money and you are now a millionaire, embarrass me.
I will apologize for every word that I said. Embarrass me and tell me, how did you become a millionaire?
>> Millionaire.
>> Because politics now is become an employment agency of the criminals in the [clears throat] community.
>> Wow.
>> Who look at the government as an estate that must be fleeced. Do the book that was written here and it is banned. So, which that book can be resurfaced? Our time to eat.
>> Our time >> Look for that book.
One Kenyan guy is living in exile right now in the UK. Was walking past the government office and he heard the heads of state and government officials talking. And the only word he picked it is our time.
>> To eat.
>> To eat.
To eat what?
It's our time to loot >> Wow.
>> the system.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah. [clears throat] And politicians will use the community to legitimize their theft.
And the politicians would appoint the judiciary so that they will not be arrested for their crime.
>> them, yeah.
>> And then the news and media must be managing the anger of the people.
>> And entertainment.
>> And entertain them. Soccer >> religious system >> And of course go to church. When you have lost everything else, go to church.
Jesus is coming very soon.
And uh Leave leave That's that's how our society is running right now.
>> I don't believe in that kind of Christianity.
>> Yeah.
>> That makes hell and that makes the earth hell only to try to escape hell again.
>> We don't even need to go to hell as Africans. We are there already.
>> You're already there.
>> Yeah, already there.
>> One last question before you go.
>> Mhm.
>> [clears throat] >> When you look at everything, when all is said and done, how would you describe the Africa of your dream?
>> The Africa of my dream is when good health is restored.
>> Mhm.
>> When we can witness over the weekends cattle crossing rivers. Drums can be heard from village to village celebrating our new moons as they come into place.
Where truthfulness can become part of our ethical behavior as leaders. I look at the time when our bushes we're going to stop some of the mines and restore our bushes so that we can eat from them again. The wild animals will return and we can make use those bushes as also pharmaceuticals. I look at villages which can reestablish our birth control centers and birth centers where women can deliver children. I look at a time when we can no longer be mining, digging and exploding the ground but learn the ancient knowledge of finding the caves that are in our land. For this is where our mother has opened herself. And if we can follow the veins of those caves, the minerals that we're looking for are right there.
So instead of destroying nature, looking for new minerals, go and find the earth where she has opened for access. I look at a moment when we can go to the rivers and we can drink water again.
Not now where is cyanide.
Now mines are washing their minerals and cyanides into our rivers and contaminating them. The Africa I want is Africa where we can move seamlessly.
We can don't need to carry and change money from country to country. I look at an Africa where all the national armies of every country can group together to have one big national army that can stand around the borders of Africa and protect even the weakest countries amongst us must benefit. I look at a country of Africa and all the other countries we call right now must be provinces. I look at one stock exchange where we can begin to share our resources and spread them equally where the governors of what we call presidents now can be governors and we can unite ourselves. I look at an African country where our natural resources and our ancient historical sites, some of them can be restored. And we can still find out that where we are coming from is where we are going. For that is Sankofa.
For development without environmental preservation is destruction. Let us be careful as Africans that we don't think that to civilize ourselves is to make another concrete jungle.
>> Yeah.
>> What quality of water are we going to be drinking in that jungle?
What quality of food are we going to be eating in that jungle?
What quality of life >> Mhm.
>> are we going to be living in that concrete jungle?
>> Yeah.
>> Who is going to be the chief in that global village that we are talking about? The Chinese will come as Chinese.
The Europeans will come as Europeans.
The Indians will come as Indians.
I wonder what the African will be in that village.
>> Wow.
I just want to thank you for honoring this invitation and for coming to hear your thoughts.
>> Thank you very much.
>> Thank you so much.
>> God bless. Thank you.
>> [music]
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