Theo Von Posed a Viral Question about Life—Jase Robertson Has an Answer | 1327

Added: 2026-05-11

[00:00:01]I am unashamed. What about you?

[00:00:06]>> Welcome back to unashamed. Uh it's interesting, Jay. So, I had a I had a two city stop on my last uh last week appearances and we started in Cincinnati, Ohio, and we were speaking.

[00:00:20]Actually, it's weird because you fly in, it says the Cincinnati airport, but you're actually in Hebron, Kentucky.

[00:00:27]>> Really?

[00:00:28]>> Yeah. It's the Cincinnati airport that's not in Ohio or Cincinnati. It's in Kentucky, which is very confusing.

[00:00:35]>> Did you speak some truth to them?

[00:00:37]>> I did. Uh, first of proud of you.

[00:00:40]>> First of all, first of all, I said, you got to got you guys got to know where you are. I'm flying into Kentucky. I'm in Cincinnati. You got me really confused. Indiana's close by.

[00:00:48]>> Uh, but they asked me to do something that I never do, which and you'll appreciate this, Jay, because there's a reason why I don't. So, they had asked me before, like we had a little conference call about a week before we went up there and they said, "Look, at the end of it, it's always a little bit of an awkward transition. We're trying to get people to give to this event and we want to know if you would do something with duck calls during this period of time."

[00:01:11]>> Uhoh.

[00:01:11]>> I know. And I said, "Well, >> now there's one call you can blow."

[00:01:15]>> Yes. And that So, here's what I said. I said, "Well, yes, I can." Cuz there's a there's a couple of our calls that I can do well. But I said, "I don't really blow the malard call cuz that takes a skill set I don't really have."

[00:01:25]>> The malard call.

[00:01:26]>> You just never You just never did it.

[00:01:28]They just >> I tried. I just couldn't get it down. I said, "I got air control issues. I never figured it out." But I didn't figure it out in the duck line with Chase or Phil.

[00:01:37]That's for sure.

[00:01:38]>> Well, okay. Now, he's in he's picking a fight here and I want to interrupt your story now. you're if you hear something that's not true, we have to stop and say time out.

[00:01:51]Look, as much as I believe that everyone is born in the image of God and they are free to make choices, even though at some point along the road they will make bad choices.

[00:02:02]>> Y >> when it comes to duck calling on on blowing a malard hen call, you're either born with it or you're not.

[00:02:09]>> I agree.

[00:02:10]>> And it it's just a fact. And I've got Robertson DNA flowing through me, but I cannot control the air that comes out of my body.

[00:02:18]>> There's no amount of of instruction that that will help you. It's kind of like golf. Some people I've realized this.

[00:02:26]I'm never going to be a professional level golf cuz I can't get the concept because you have to feel it. And the same thing with with duck calling.

[00:02:35]>> I mean, there's got to be a reason. the first time I blew a duck call in front of my dad, which I was really nervous about. I was like nine years old and cuz he I heard me when he was walking to the shop and he said, "Was that you blowing that duck?" And I was like, "Yeah." He said, "Hit it. Hit it for me." And I thought, "Gulp, here we go." Nine years old.

[00:03:01]I blew it. And he said, "You got it." He said, "Now you're a gut." He he said, "You're a gadwall."

[00:03:08]Which most people don't even know what that they're a little higher pitched. My my cadence sounded more like a gadwall hen than a maladin, which is a different kind of duck if you don't know.

[00:03:19]>> But that's my point. I didn't even do it wrong. I mean, I listened. I felt it.

[00:03:26]>> But but you've been practicing for a while, hadn't you?

[00:03:29]>> Well, I have. But yeah, but it's not just practice. You're going with practice. It's not there. You're doing something with your body that you've never done before. Yeah.

[00:03:37]>> And so there's a little there's a little light bulb that goes off where this this happens and you realize all you're doing is putting air under pressure.

[00:03:50]>> Yeah.

[00:03:51]>> That's all you're doing.

[00:03:52]>> Yeah.

[00:03:52]>> And the a malard hen call is designed to be blown under pressure because their sound has to have a pressurized bit of air. I'll get a duck call and illustrate.

[00:04:04]>> All right. While you're working on that, so it's like this, Zach. Here's what I compare it to. You know how people can curl their tongue? Can you curl your tongue?

[00:04:11]>> Yeah, I can do it.

[00:04:12]>> Okay. So, some people can't do that. And you say, "Well, yeah, just practice that. Just keep working on it." But you know what? They're never going to be able to curl their tongue.

[00:04:21]>> Did you practice the duck call?

[00:04:23]>> Oh, did I practice? I mean, like I felt such I for it took me years. I should go to therapy to get over it. I mean, I'm the oldest son. And I was like, what is wrong?

[00:04:31]>> You're like, I'm not even you're not cuz >> I'm not a Robertson, right? So something is wrong with me. So like I went through a lot of trauma as a as a teenager trying to figure out cuz I couldn't blow him out haul. And that's what you started getting. Is that when you started getting pedicures?

[00:04:45]>> Maybe.

[00:04:46]>> Well, it's kind of like we talked about last podcast, the glory and or honor shame if you're if you're in a family.

[00:04:55]>> Well, I was thinking I was going to run the business. I mean, I went to business school. You were thinking like, I want the money.

[00:05:00]>> If you if you're in a family that makes duck calls >> and you can't blow one >> and you can't blow one.

[00:05:05]>> It was awful.

[00:05:06]>> That That's what I tell Willie. Willy's the CEO and I'm like, what do you do when they ask you to blow a duck call >> because Will can't blow one. He's a little better than me. Can fake it.

[00:05:16]>> Jeff can. Jeb can Jeff Jeb's decent.

[00:05:19]>> Well, there's decent and then there's >> Yeah. Jace was the only one that got it like dad got it. But >> So, finish your story.

[00:05:24]>> So, let me finish my story. So I told him I'd do it and so I so in my mind I thought I'll bring my I'll bring my lanyard cuz on my lanyard I don't even have a hen call on there cuz I can't blow it. And why would I blow it anyway when I'm hunting with Jason Dave, you know, I don't need to. But I I will blow the Drake mounter Drake call. I can do that. Well, >> cuz all you have to do that is hum a low bass note >> which I can do well. I can also do almost every whistle on the pentail whistle. There's four or five different things I can do there. So, I was just going to bring that. Give them a little illustration of that. I've done it before. I've done it on national television before.

[00:06:00]>> I can't do the pintail cuz you that's I cannot do that one.

[00:06:03]>> The u Yeah, it's hard to flutter it. I never could figure that one out.

[00:06:06]>> So, anyway, so but here was the problem.

[00:06:09]>> I do a lot I do a lot.

[00:06:12]>> I do a lot of events and so I forgot the duck calls. So, I get there.

[00:06:17]>> Oh, wow.

[00:06:18]>> And I'm like, "Oh, boy."

[00:06:20]So, so they have ordered some calls that they're giving away, but guess the two calls they had.

[00:06:26]>> So, they had the teal call, which is even harder to blow than the M. That's >> Well, it is for if you're like me and you can't fake it. I can fake the other one cuz I can do just a straight quack.

[00:06:38]>> But I couldn't even fake that cuz you have to It's so much pressure on there to get it to even make a sound. It's so high high pitched.

[00:06:45]>> So, they had that call and I was like, boy, I can't blow that. But they also had a wood duck call, which I can blow the wood duck call, >> and I can do the flying and the sitting, so I could do the back and forth. Yeah, >> I' I'd like to hear that one.

[00:06:57]>> Oh, yeah, I can do it. I can do it. It's It's not quite as good on the sitting as y'all do, but it's I can still do it.

[00:07:03]And uh so anyway, but look here, you think about it. Me, this has been like a lifetime try. So all of a sudden, I'm putting myself out here cuz I'm like, "All right, give me the two calls."

[00:07:11]Yeah, I'll do it. I said I'd do it. I'm >> Were you nervous?

[00:07:13]>> A little bit. Yeah, cuz it's out of my element. But I got up and I so what I did on the teal call I did not blow it but what I I told them the story about how the the how much they quack versus the peep. If id had the whistle would have been a lot better.

[00:07:28]>> Yeah.

[00:07:28]>> Whereas the women do all the talking and the men don't do it. Well, it got a huge laugh which was so so I pulled that part off and then I blew the wood duck call and then I gave the here's what they are flying, here's what they are sitting.

[00:07:39]You don't want to have a flying while we're flying because it's air traffic control. Everybody's you know. So I've heard y'all do enough demonstration. So I pulled it off is what I'm saying. But I opened Jayce was and this is was the point of my story cuz dad used to say boys never leave home without your duck calls, your Bible or your woman.

[00:07:56]>> Yeah.

[00:07:56]>> He would include all three. And so I told him I was like, >> "Folks, I did two out of three. I forgot my duck call." So that was my open. So >> I made it work. I'm a professional. So, I'll give you uh the Drake that Al can do cuz if you just go >> and then just the little Malor Drake chirp >> I mean anybody can do that >> if you can do a bass.

[00:08:22]>> You don't hum. Look.

[00:08:25]>> Yeah.

[00:08:26]>> Just as greenwing teal, but it's it's a whistle. So So on the malard hen, >> so you have this I've never bone this call. We'll see. I'm gonna see what kind of production they're doing around here.

[00:08:36]>> Oh, >> so all you can do is blow. So you either blow >> Well, that doesn't sound like a duck.

[00:08:44]No, >> I don't know what that is. So people say, "Well, you got to pressurize your air." So they try to grunt. They'll go, >> this is where I get that's where I get into too much grunt because I can't pressurize the air.

[00:08:55]>> If you pressurize your air, which you do, you say, "Well, how do you put yourself under pressure?" Hold your breath.

[00:09:02]>> Yep. If you hold your breath, all of a sudden you a pressure starts to mount because if you don't at some point get some air going, you'll die. The the pressure is real. But you keep that position and instead of blowing, instead of holding your breath and then just blowing, you keep everything tight.

[00:09:31]that sounds like a duck. So then you got your duck sound. Well, if you've never done that and you haven't, it's hard to do it for the first time. So it's like one of those things. It's not like the golf swing where if you go out there and practice, you you'll get better.

[00:09:45]>> You can practice this for the rest of your life. Unless you do that little move where that air is being forced up and you use your tongue as a valve, you'll never get it.

[00:10:00]So Jayce, we got summertime coming up.

[00:10:02]The kids are out of school, which gives us an opportunity to maybe read some books to them.

[00:10:07]>> My favorite author of Brave Books is actually my wife >> Jeff and Jessica are also authors as well. Brave Books, uh we've been talking about these guys for a few years. We love them. Uh they teach kids, uh things like courage, standing firm in your faith, loving others, and they do it and it is stories that are rooted in biblical truth. Every book has games and memory verses in the back. They help kids apply lessons to their lives. As Jay said, Missy wrote a book about unconditional love called Because You're My Family. Jeff and Jessica's book is called Dear Valor, which is an awesome story about adoption and God's love for us. We love reading them to our grandkids. Lisa and I are a big part of Brave Books. We can't wait for new ones to come out. And here's what you do. You subscribe. You get a new book every month. Uh, and you'll get a free starter kit. Plus, both of the Robertson books that we just showed you are completely free. Use the code unashamed for 20% off your first order. Let's raise kids who are unashamed of their beliefs. Head to bravebooks.com/unashame.

[00:11:12]Use the code unashamed. That's bravebooks.com/unashame.

[00:11:17]Use the code unashamed.

[00:11:23]>> It's more like riding a hoverboard.

[00:11:25]Yeah. Uh Fred got a hoverboard when he was a kid.

[00:11:29]>> No, that's just hanging on.

[00:11:31]>> Nah, no, no, no. It's I'm telling you, it's it's it there's a thing that clicks. There's a clicking moment and you and then it's like you know how to do it. I've never got to that moment. I mean, I cuz I got on one I watched him do it and I was like, man, that looks kind of >> He makes it look easy. He's just rolling around town on this hoverboard. He's, you know, turning around doing all kind of stuff. And it was like his mode of transportation for probably probably two years.

[00:11:56]>> You know what they call that for use that? That's called a future ER visit.

[00:12:00]>> No, no, no. I got you. I I jumped out there and I said, I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to try this.

[00:12:07]>> And so >> that's how you went in the ER.

[00:12:09]>> I put I put the first foot on, put the I started with my left foot and uh and I was like, I think I think this is is going to be easy. If it's not, I'll figure it out. put on the the second foot and I mean as soon as both feet were on down goes up.

[00:12:26]>> I mean I it was like the thing left me and my feet like went up in the air above my butt above my tailbone.

[00:12:36]>> Yeah.

[00:12:37]>> And so my tailbone I mean it's just like I mean just bam.

[00:12:41]>> You'll never be the same.

[00:12:42]>> That's why you didn't get my joke. You you didn't get it went past you cuz we're so different mentally. Yeah.

[00:12:49]>> You don't ride the hoverboard. You're actually just >> trying to stay >> a top of it. Yeah. There's no riding.

[00:12:58]You're You're hanging on. It's not a ride. It's an illusion.

[00:13:01]>> No, they're not. No, I I No, they're I'm saying there it's not hanging on.

[00:13:05]>> The whole point is to stay upright.

[00:13:07]>> It's fluid. It's a fluid experience.

[00:13:09]Like you either you're just wanting to stay up there. It's like skis, you know?

[00:13:14]But they were like upright.

[00:13:16]>> It's the same. You say, "I don't ski. I I've gone about four times and the last time I went uh was up here in the mountains of North Carolina and I get off the the ski lift and well first I I I couldn't get off the ski lift so I had to go all the way back down and back around again. Then I get off the ski lift and I and I fall and hit my head which I had the helmet on. I hit the metal pole and it's like b and everyone's looking at me. Then I I mean that I fell probably six times and she was like, "It's fun." I'm like, "No, it's not fun." Like, "I'm not enjoying this." And so I I'd retired. I That's when I started getting my pedicures out.

[00:13:55]I just >> Well, skin is definitely another one of those things that some people are just really naturally good at and other people struggle trying.

[00:14:03]>> I've seen too many injuries where I just never wanted to get involved. But uh what I wanted to say is when you when you had the uh experience where you landed at the Cincinnati airport and it wasn't in Cincinnati.

[00:14:17]>> See to me when I hear that I'm always going to use that in the speech.

[00:14:22]>> Yeah. That was my >> to get to the three questions though which is >> how did you get here?

[00:14:27]>> Right.

[00:14:28]>> Where where are you at?

[00:14:30]>> Which I'm I'm saying the concept of you're here on earth. How how did you get here? Mhm.

[00:14:36]>> Who is there a god type of thing? I' I'd have used that. I'd have made fun of it.

[00:14:40]>> Yeah.

[00:14:41]>> Then to say, >> how'd you get here?

[00:14:43]>> I did something similar. Yeah.

[00:14:45]>> Yeah. So, well, every I think every everybody's looking for that.

[00:14:48]Everybody's looking >> for the story of their life, like the story they can live into. I just sent y'all uh Maddie a clip of um a comedian uh Theo Vaughn, who I saw this on Instagram and it it just really touched me. But he basically >> You're not supposed to know who that is.

[00:15:08]>> Well, you probably I mean, he's kind of a big big celebrity right now. It's absolutely hilarious, too. Yeah.

[00:15:15]>> But you didn't know who Dave Ramsey was either. So, >> put it in Phil Robertson's work. What What book did he write in here?

[00:15:21]>> He didn't write a book. But >> he's from Louisiana. He's a Louisiana boy. Really? Well, I'm sorry. I haven't >> I like him now.

[00:15:28]>> But you know him either.

[00:15:29]>> I haven't. Is he Where's he from in Louisiana?

[00:15:32]>> Um I don't know the answer to that.

[00:15:35]Is he a Christian comedian?

[00:15:37]>> I don't think he's a I think he's either recently become a Christian or he's searching.

[00:15:42]>> Um I He's definitely on a journey cuz in fact >> Well, aren't we all >> that was Maybe I shouldn't have asked that cuz you don't I tell you what, you watch you watch the clip that >> I mean what I was saying.

[00:15:54]>> Can you play Can you play the clip, Maddie? Can you play on your side?

[00:15:57]>> I don't listen to most comedians because most comedians are nasty.

[00:16:00]>> Yeah, >> some are not. He he get he get a little runchy but uh but uh he's funny though.

[00:16:06]I will say he's funny but he has >> Is that a justification to the law? Are we going to get back into that?

[00:16:13]>> We got to get back.

[00:16:14]>> We'll play the clip out of you. We'll let Yeah. I want y'all to see this cuz I thought it was it was it interesting to the point you just made about what you what you asked people that question.

[00:16:22]>> I don't know. I'm starting to just feel something different. And then I was also I was I was looking on this Bible and there's a story called John 5 and it's about a guy who's at these pools and some people follow the Bible, some people don't. That's fine. And Jesus is is at the is at the pools and and it's in Bethesda and there's a sick man there and he's been sick for a long time. And Jesus asks him, "Do you want to be healed?" He asks him, "Do do you want to be healed?"

[00:16:48]And that's a crazy question because you know if I get healed then I'm different.

[00:16:54]You know if if somebody gets healed they have a new story. So that's just been something that I've been having to ask myself. It's like yeah do I want to be healed? Do I really want something different? And sometimes a a lot of the answer is no. I don't I don't know if I'm scared of it. I don't know what I am. I don't know if I don't want to do what it takes to get I I can't even tell what it is. It's hard for me. So, some of this stuff's a little bit hard for me to say, I think. I don't even know why, but I I think I want a new story.

[00:17:22]>> I thought you were going to He was going to tell a few jokes. That was >> No, that was like a serious moment. He's from Covington, by the way. He's 46 years old.

[00:17:31]>> Zach, you need to make some phone calls and we'll get into uh some healing.

[00:17:37]>> Yeah, let's get on the podcast. I know a guy who's really good at creating a new set of circumstances for you. Yeah.

[00:17:47]>> And he's a really good healer.

[00:17:49]>> Yeah. Do you want to be healed?

[00:17:50]>> Yeah.

[00:17:50]>> Yeah. I felt like uh I watched that and I thought, man, this guy I've never Willy I think Willie knows him. Um I've never met Theo, but I thought, man, that the kindred spirit there of somebody that's searching for that for a new story. And uh I love that because I think that going back to what we were talking about in the last podcast when you reduce everything just to the transaction, right? Um you miss the bigger thing of what's actually happening that we're invited into a story and we're invited into participation in the story of Christ and who God is. And um which I think is that John that passage you was talking about too. It hits right right on that. But you think about um when we talked about in in the Hillsdale episode, you know, when we went to did the one on the uh series on CS Lewis, I I just found that to be so compelling that that what led him to Christ was not the intellectual arguments, although he was very capable of addressing those and he did. I mean, go read Mere Christianity and a lot of his work. Um he's he was a great apologist and he had a great mind as well as Tolken and others that he was friends with. But what led him to a relationship with Christ was the invitation from Tolken to, hey, why don't you just kind of settle down on your, you know, your intellectual pursuits and can you just rest in the story of who Jesus is? And it wasn't until he really looked for a new story that he was able to really understand the be the beautiful nature of of what Christ is offering. And I think that's what you were getting at in that last episode.

[00:19:23]>> Yeah. um Jace about how we understand that the concept of sin.

[00:19:27]>> Yeah, exactly. I mean that that verse does say confess your sins so you'll be healed because you know sin tends to uh there's a loneliness that comes with it, a detachment. You know, you separate yourself from God and then the more sins go because it also is just so contagious. It snowball. It's like a snowball going off the mountain and you lose your community cuz you you you think about the relational aspect of it of when we talked about honor and shame.

[00:20:05]Well, if you asked like what my problems are, I mean, I got a group of people who knew every problem I've ever had because I've had discussions about that and I've been a part of other discussions. And I think when you look at what we have in Christ, that's why you're in this state of you're not worried about, oh, am I going to lose my salvation or cuz I broke this rule or no, it's a relationship with the Lord who is multifaceted in that, you know, we have a father that we're praying to. We have a brother who we're following. We have the spirit of Jesus in us that's so intimate and all you got to do is think about it.

[00:20:50]It it it just becomes something different I think than kind of how we were raised when we were talking about where >> we got a rule book, keep the rules, let's gather up once a week, make sure everybody's checking the boxes, and then you go out there and like almost like live a different life.

[00:21:05]>> Yeah. And you're wondering why you kind of feel like Theo sometimes, like what what seems to be the problem here?

[00:21:13]Where's the excitement?

[00:21:14]>> Well, and I love Jace that Theo did exactly what you did a lot when we were studying John was he focused in on the questions.

[00:21:22]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:21:23]>> Cuz that was really good. Do you really want to be ill?

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[00:23:03]I had an experience today. This I mean I'll share it with you. I stopped at Chick-fil-A cuz I realized I've been on the road. I came in late at night. My wife's out of town. We met early and it hit me. I was like, I haven't eaten in in half a day, you know, and a night, you know, and I was I was like, I'm going to hit >> Zack. You wonder how people don't struggle with weight when you've when you haven't eaten for days and because you just forgot.

[00:23:33]>> Yeah.

[00:23:33]>> That's why you don't struggle with weight. And I just >> when Jill's out of town, I I mean, there's a lot of things that I'm going to miss. But I promise you, I won't miss a meal.

[00:23:42]>> Yeah. Well, I'm like I got to go to the grocery store. But anyway, so the point is, but I was excited because I told you that event was so good.

[00:23:51]>> Yeah.

[00:23:51]>> And I was just excited and I did something unique in the event because y'all know I have a really good friend who I consider like a mentor. uh he's in his 90s, big Jim Jim McGuwick and he wrote a bunch of books and he's very theologicalminded in his early years, but in his later years, he became way more relational with God. He and he a lot of things that I use, I get from him.

[00:24:19]>> Yeah.

[00:24:20]>> Where he's like when he summed up the Bible in 60 seconds, I mean, I remember the first time I ever heard him say that, I thought, "Oh boy, this is awesome." when he's like Genesis to Malachi, Jesus is coming to earth.

[00:24:32]Matthew through John, he's here on the earth. Acts of the Revelation, he's coming back. I thought, >> there it is.

[00:24:39]>> Where have you been all my life? You know, I mean, that was so exciting to me. But uh so anyway, now that he's up in years and and he had a stroke and he's just struggling with his health, we it's now kind of like I'm trying to help him just cuz when you get that age and you're not doing good healthwise, you feel like what's my purpose, you know?

[00:25:00]So, uh Missy and I visited him and I think I told y'all about that podcast a couple months ago at his house and it was just wonderful. But here lately, I've been I've been uh just trying to encourage him. You know, he's not he's not been feeling well. So, at that event, I said, "Look, would y'all do me a favor?" I was like, I got a guy who I love and he is a partner in Christ from with me and he's given me so many great ideas about the scriptures because despite even having a bit of dementia and all that, he doesn't know the he can't remember the >> the books of the Bible or the names of the verses, but Al, the man has memorized the Bible.

[00:25:45]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:25:46]>> The concepts it's incredible. He he he writes these beautiful like poems and stories and that are centered on stories of the Bible and he just writes them to me.

[00:25:57]>> Yeah.

[00:25:57]>> But I hadn't heard from him for a while.

[00:25:59]So I said, "Look, so here's what I'm going to do." I said, "We want to encourage him because he's, you know, when you're at that age, you're you're feeling like, you know, what's my purpose?" And so I I got my phone out, this place is packed. And I said, "When I point it toward you and we we discussed what we would say, but we came up with," keep writing, Big Jim.

[00:26:18]>> Yeah.

[00:26:19]>> And so when I did that, they all just yelled it and started cheering. So I'm going to give that I haven't sent it to him yet, but by the time this airs, I will. But anyway, I was really excited about that because I thought this is going to lift his spirits. And uh so I stopped at the Chick-fil-A. I'm feeling good is my point. Well, when I get to the get my order, this nicest woman in the world, she's there about every other time I go there, >> she's like, "Hey, Mr. Jay said, and know how you doing? Just real talkative."

[00:26:50]Well, when I handed her my card, which was a brand new credit card cuz I just got it. There's a story here.

[00:26:57]She went, "Wow, this card is heavy."

[00:27:01]>> Yeah. And I said, "You have no idea.

[00:27:06]the old one that this replaced. And she she was looking at me, you know. I said, I tried to destroy it. You know what I figured out? It's indestructible.

[00:27:18]Ow.

[00:27:19]>> You can't cut it with a wire cutter.

[00:27:21]>> It was an American Express car. Look, I beat that thing with a hammer. I tried to burn it.

[00:27:26]>> Yeah.

[00:27:27]>> Uh, >> you can't even cut it with wire cutter.

[00:27:28]>> I took a meat cleaver and I hit it. And every time I hit it, it took a chunk of the meat cleaver out. And look, so I looked at her and I said, "You know what? I concluded this thing must have the spirit of God in it." When I said that, Al, her eyes like popped out of her head. She just her eyes got big. And I was like, "Does that scare you?"

[00:27:53]I don't know why she responded that way, but I thought, I think I planted a seed there. And I was wanting to get into Romans 8:11 because I was thinking what is that verse? I said, "What is that verse?" You know, if we have the spirit uh and it was Romans 8:11 when it says, "If the spirit of the Lord is living in you, it will give life to your mortal body, right?

[00:28:16]>> You'll become imperishable, indestructible."

[00:28:19]>> But then when I drove away, I thought >> she's thinking about that right now. And and but then it hit me. I thought maybe her eyes got big because if the spirit was in your credit card, and this is what I was getting to our point about the relational aspect, it knows what you're spending your money on.

[00:28:38]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:28:39]>> Which is another aspect. Uh >> which is what Bill Smith used to say. He said, "If you really want to see where your preferences lie, of course this is years ago, we would say credit card now, but in his days it was checkbook." He said, "Go back and flip through your checkbook >> and see where you've been spending your money." That's >> I actually thought it would have made a great uh uh old duck show episode.

[00:29:00]>> Yeah, >> cuz you know what I really thought? I wanted to blow it up.

[00:29:04]>> I thought, you know, if I just build a bomb and put that card and then set it off, then we could go and see.

[00:29:11]>> Well, you know what they tell you now?

[00:29:13]You didn't know this cuz you probably don't read your stuff, but they just they tell you to send it back to them cuz they know you can't destroy it.

[00:29:19]>> Did they say that?

[00:29:20]>> Yeah. They the new ones, the heavy ones like those, they just say, "Send them back to us."

[00:29:24]>> But that should show everyone how dangerous that is. Yeah.

[00:29:28]>> If they're making something, which they're making money off every transaction, so they want you to use it.

[00:29:34]And how many people are in credit card debt and all this stuff, >> that should tell you how dangerous that is.

[00:29:41]>> If you give your power to that, cuz they have made it >> indestructible.

[00:29:46]There's no, "Oh, my card's broken. I need another." Oh, no. Not this thing.

[00:29:51]You'll destroy everything you have trying to get rid of it.

[00:29:55]>> I love it. So, so Jay, the what? What a segue. You You have segueed into uh cuz I left a cliffhanger last time of what I think about this sin that leads to death. Your illustration has perfectly swerved into what I believe John is talking about because >> really and I had no idea. This is random and it but it's perfectly exactly what I think he means. Um, and it's interesting because John says this in first John, but in the book of John, he doesn't mention something that Matthew, Mark, and Luke all mention, which which I find fascinating because, you know, I mean, his whole approach to the gospel was different because he focused on just kind of the last mostly half the book is the last week of Jesus' life.

[00:30:39]>> Yeah.

[00:30:40]>> And his whole approach was different. It wasn't just like all the facts of Jesus.

[00:30:42]Well, and he kind of had the seven signs and and he goes to the seven days.

[00:30:47]>> So, but he there's all three in ma in Matthew 12:31-32, Mark 3:28-29, Luke 12 8-10.

[00:30:56]There's a reference that Jesus, and I'll just read one, but they're in all three where he says these words, and John doesn't record it in his. Everyone who speaks a word against the son of man will be forgiven. But whoever but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. So this is what tuned me into that phrase because he talked about a sin that leads to death and Jesus used a phrase a phrase if you blasphe against the Holy Spirit you will not be forgiven. Well the similarity of those two to me just seemed too much a coincidence. You've got over here a sin that leads to death. over here, a sin that can't be forgiven. They sound similar to me.

[00:31:36]>> So, I went back and looked at the context of all three of these. And remember, John doesn't mention it, but he does mention something similar in in First John.

[00:31:44]>> And so, what was the what was the context around all three of those statements when Jesus made them? Every one of them, he's being accused earlier in the chapters of being uh uh demonpossessed >> is how he's able to do the miracles. And later in all those contexts he comes back and says when you blasphe go against the Holy Spirit it's a sin that can't be forgiven. So I I take that to mean that when you deny you mentioned the the uh incarnation of Christ which I would agree that that's the underlying theme of first John. But it's the power source that makes it possible. And you can't deny part of the godhead and still think you're okay with the other part of the godhead. I think it's Jesus' point.

[00:32:27]But I also think it's John's point. In other words, what is the fuel for that?

[00:32:31]And you just said it. The fuel for Jesus, even Jesus, the son of God, when he came here was the Holy Spirit, which is why he said he was going to impart that to us. And he spent a lot of time talking about that to his disciples. So when you deny that, whether it's and because he says if you say something bad about me, you can be forgiven because a lot of people said a lot of bad things.

[00:32:51]>> Isn't that isn't that doesn't that go along with the idolatry idea?

[00:32:55]>> And that was the last point I was going to make. And that's why I think he closes with that idea that if somehow you think something else can be the source of your salvation, of your life, of the fruit of your life, uh, and and specifically Jesus, they were attributed to him that it was to Satan. But I think any idolatry leads back to Satan.

[00:33:18]>> I hate to say this cuz I'm wearing a sweatshirt right now, but I know it is warming up down there in Louisiana.

[00:33:23]How's the weather?

[00:33:23]>> Oh, it's nice here.

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[00:34:46]When we read that verse in an earlier podcast about 2 Corinthians 6 where it said, you know, don't be yolked with unbelievers. Yeah. The verse 14.

[00:34:55]>> And it says, what fellowship can light have with darkness? Which that theme is all over John.

[00:35:02]>> Right.

[00:35:03]>> And then he says, Paul says, "What harmony is there?" And that harmony is that >> that's why we said this thing at at at the end of the day when we did all that about sin to your point I think you really hit on something powerful is by doing something that is not the image of God >> you're then giving the power of your life over >> that's right >> to there there are two camps and only two >> right >> you have God's And then you have the spiritual forces of evil. That's why, you know, Satan >> is brought up right after this, >> right?

[00:35:45]>> Right after this passage in in verse 19.

[00:35:47]We used to read it in Bible studies, you know, the whole world is under the control or held captive >> by the evil one.

[00:35:55]>> That's right.

[00:35:56]>> So I think I think you're right. uh which would be the opposite of life because in Jesus you and he also did say uh in the last verse of 1 John 3, we have the Holy Spirit. We know what does it say exactly? We know 1 John 3:24, those who obey his commands live in him and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us.

[00:36:22]And just and and just to tie it off, I think that's why whenever Satan tempted Jesus directly, >> you remember he went at him kind of from three different angles. But the third angle was if you will just join forces with me, we'll rule this together.

[00:36:40]Remember when he said that in the temptation, he was like, if if you if you'll bow the knee to me, then I will rule with you all these kingdoms of the earth. And Jesus told him very clearly, he said, "You worship the Lord your God only." And so he made an exclusivity about God. You can't have you can't hold hands with idolatry and and the evil one and somehow expect to be in a right relationship with God. So that's why I think the idea of unforgivable or, you know, a sin that can't be forgiven or a sin that leads to death is that concept.

[00:37:13]you cut out the only source by which you can find salvation in the godhead when you do this. And so I think any form that takes that place is always a handhole with Satan and it's never going to work. It didn't work from the beginning, it doesn't work at the end.

[00:37:28]So that's that's what I think he's referring to uh in both passages, but they go at it from different angles, which is very interesting.

[00:37:35]>> So I don't think we had a bumper sticker answer to that, but >> I do agree with your assessment. What do you think, Zach?

[00:37:44]I had to I had to step I had to step out cuz bear got bear got a little fender bender. I'm like I'm telling you what like but he's okay.

[00:37:55]>> He's okay. But I'm not okay. I'm like Jesus take the wheel cuz I'm about to I'm like I tell you what it this >> Don't do it. Zach, one of the worst memories I had is when I almost died. Al remembers it.

[00:38:11]I pulled out in front of a vehicle, spun eight times, ran into a light pole. I didn't have my >> Thank goodness I wasn't there. I'd be dead.

[00:38:20]>> And when I came through, here's my dad standing over me in a ditch saying, >> "Wow, >> why would a man >> pull in front of the traffic?"

[00:38:28]>> I'm like, I I'm so mad right now. I'm having trouble. So, what was Tell me the question again.

[00:38:33]>> Well, we we've spent a month uh cliffhangering the idea. What is the sin that leads to death?

[00:38:41]and me and I >> I think it's I think it's mult I think it's multiple wrecks over and over again. You just refuse >> you refuse to say I'm not you know I'm going to start driving safe that's right now that's what it is. It's like belligerent uh like I'm not going to it actually probably is connect you and Jill when he walks out of your house one day and he's heading off to college or military or whatever his future holds. You and Jill are going to be it's going to be a bittersweet moment. You're going to be so full of joy and yet so full of angst and wonder is that >> I feel that was that cuz I mean it makes me have all the memories of cuz we weren't hover parents once they reached 17 18 years old.

[00:39:20]>> Yeah.

[00:39:20]>> But it is so difficult cuz you're like you got to let them fail and all this but you're like I just hope they don't get killed during the process you know.

[00:39:31]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:32]>> Well, I know that there were a lot of prayers like that for me cuz I was a prodigal. So, I know especially mom was praying that I didn't get killed. And >> the thing that made me the maddest was the the text he said, "Don't worry. I'll I'll make it right. I'll take care of it." And I'm like, "Oh, boy.

[00:39:46]>> No, not but you you won't cuz the whole what happens is now to honor y'all's relationship by saying that."

[00:39:57]>> I get it. So, Zach, what I did was I tied in the the John passage of the sin that leads to death with the Matthew, Mark, and Luke passage that Jesus says is the blasphem of the Holy Spirit is yeah >> is a sin that can't be forgiven. And I think they were they were similar come at from two different angles, but I think it's the same concept of denying the source of who God is, which then he closes with the keep yourselves from idols, which is it really interesting at the very end of first John. I think he he just saves that last line as this was the point of the whole thing. Jay said this earlier.

[00:40:32]>> Yeah. You look at um I think it's connected. You see it repeated in scripture as well like in places like Hebrews 6, you know, when when uh exactly where I just exactly >> um well I mean you see I mean it's like he's talking to because idols can be good things too, right? And so in Hebrews they were they were wanting to go back to the old law which wasn't a bad thing. I mean, the law wasn't bad. I mean, it was God's law.

[00:40:56]>> Yeah.

[00:40:57]>> But they wanted to go back to it. And the Hebrew writer's like, if you do that, you realize there's no coming back because the whole thing.

[00:41:07]>> Well, somebody made the point that we're we're actually I cuz when you look up what the word image is, we're made in the image of God. It you'll see idol.

[00:41:17]>> Yeah.

[00:41:17]>> We're Cuz what is a statue? It represents something that was real.

[00:41:24]>> Yeah.

[00:41:25]>> So that that's what we are. We're we're we're functioning idols. We're supposed to be reflecting though God. It's a little different >> situation. Exactly.

[00:41:39]>> And that's why when you're not That's what sin is. When you're not refle reflecting the image of God, which to me, we hadn't really talked about this.

[00:41:47]The whole problem with sin, another aspect of it is while you're committing that sin, you're not doing what you should be doing, which is reflecting the image of God, which you're missing your purpose.

[00:42:01]>> Right?

[00:42:02]>> So that's why people get it wrong. I got it wrong the first three or four years of my Christian walk cuz I thought following Jesus was not sinning. Well, yeah. Think and I think this is where this this is such a good topic because I think this is where a passage like Hebrews 6, people get scared. They read that and they're like, "Wait a second.

[00:42:19]Can I lose my salvation?" Do you want me to read it?

[00:42:21]>> No, it's Yeah, read it.

[00:42:22]>> Read it. Let me read it. I I I think cuz I turned over there. I think it's good.

[00:42:25]And then you you discuss it.

[00:42:27]>> It says verse four 64. It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age. If they fall away to be brought back to repentance because to their loss, they are crucifying the son of God all over again. And here's the shame. And subjecting him to public disgrace.

[00:42:59]>> Yeah. There's the your honor shame angle about 10 by the way.

[00:43:03]>> Exactly.

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[00:44:37]Yeah. So, you read that and you think, I mean, I I'll tell you right now, when I was out there living, not for Jesus, but I I was I was a Christian, but I went off a few years and I knew I knew God. Um, I had the Holy Spirit in me. I went off for a few year for a year or so and was like, I'm kind of sewing my wild oats and then I came back to Christ and repented of all that. But I remember thinking I read that I read that verse and thought, can I come back?

[00:45:07]>> Have I gone too far? Because I have tasted in the goodness of the word of God, the powers of the coming age. I've shared in the Holy Spirit, all those things. And and and I and I I I kind of like went through a season where I wasn't living for that. And now I want to come back. Have I gone too far? And I think that the the framing of that question in my mind was because I misunderstood the nature of sin. And it goes back to what we've been talking about. I thought sin was mainly a transaction thing. And so I missed the mark. I didn't follow the rules, but then I got right with God and now then I went back. But that's not what he's talking about. This is about a participation in the life of Christ. And so what what I think the passage is saying is that if you have tasted in the Holy Spirit, if you have shared in the goodness of the word of God, if you have participated in the life of Christ, and then you leave and reject that, what he's saying is you won't come back. He's not saying God won't take you back. He said you won't come back because there's nothing else left for you. What he's saying is is that the death and the burial and the resurrection of Jesus was not enough for you. And then he's and his point is there's nothing left past that. That is the whole thing. Everything is centered in in the death and the resurrection of Christ. And so if that's if if life in Christ doesn't do it for you, there's no like thing greater than that. And that's why he says that you're returning back to to that that old land that uh you know that's that's dried up like the old desert land. And so I think that's the I think what that is is it's it's a it is the blasphem of the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit is the agent of God. He is the third person in the Trinity that actually convicts you about sin, guilt, and judgment. John chapter 16. Right?

[00:47:00]And so if he's the one that's illuminating your mind to the truth of who God actually is, and then you say, "I I'm not going to do that." and you continue to put your fingers in your ears, then your mind gets corrupted, your perception gets corrupted, and you start to believe in the lies of the evil one. So, if you ultimately reject the Holy Spirit, >> then think about this. There is no other way that you are going to receive revelation from God about the way the world really is. You've rejected the source. You have rejected God himself in his revelation of truth. And so, well, where else are you going to get the information from? Where else are you going to receive uh this this beautiful wonderful story that we can live into from? You're not going to get it anywhere else.

[00:47:45]>> Which is why there's only one way to find the healing, which back to your Theo von clip. Do you want to be healed?

[00:47:53]There's only one source by which healing can come from.

[00:47:57]>> And we cannot find that in the world. We cannot find that in idolatry. We cannot find that in anything this life has to offer. it it is not there. You search, people search for it, but it's not there. And so, you think about it, if that's your only thing, you're trying to look for that next thing that's going to be, you can't find it.

[00:48:15]>> It's it's almost like he's saying that um the uh this medicine I have here in in this cup, this medicine I have here can cure anything, any disease. It'll cure any disease. The only one that it won't cure is the one that would prevent you from taking it.

[00:48:33]that it can't cure that. Now, if you if you if if you have a disease that won't enable you to drink this cup, >> Yeah.

[00:48:39]>> then you Yeah. It can't cure that. But everything else, >> we're not called to be policemen. I had an experience two well maybe 10 days ago. You know, a friend of mine called guy wanted to talk to me. I was like, "Yeah, tell him come on." I mean, I was familiar with the name. And uh the guy knocks on my door. Hey, come in, sit down. I mean, I had seen this guy in 30 years.

[00:49:08]And so, obviously, I didn't recognize him. And he was like, "Well, I just want you to know I'm, you know, I'm back with the Lord." I was like, "Really?"

[00:49:18]You know what? Cuz I was wanting to I was waiting for I thought I was going to share Jesus with him. And so I was trying to get the details and he's like, "Well, you don't remember. You baptized me when I was 19 years old." I was like, "I did? Why would I remember?" But, you know, it was hard to wrap my head around cuz I was like, "Well, what have you been doing for the last 35 years?" And he was like, "Getting drunk. I'm alcoholic." I was like, "Really?" But he said, "But I've, you know, this turnaround happened a few months ago."

[00:49:53]And he's like, I didn't want to come talk to you until I made a clean break.

[00:49:59]Like, I'm a new man in Jesus and all that. And I thought he was going to like, well, baptize me again. But no, he's like, I understood it. I just I was young and I just thought, no, I got too much I want to do. And he's like, I I just it took me 35 years a what what provoked him to to relook at this thing. And I, you know, you read these passages and you're like, a guy like this doesn't make sense to me practically. It's like, what what what have you been doing? But I I tell you this, I mean, and we talked for a few hours, I was convinced. I mean the last however many months it's been I mean he not only came back to the Lord but do you know involved in uh the 12step group and he's like I realize okay I have a problem that is I have no power over >> right >> and >> you know I'm in Jesus and all that but I got to do the hard part to find a community and it made me in all our conversations talking about sin we We have to have that community also. It this is part that's why those >> uh groups work. Yeah.

[00:51:14]>> And look, I criticize them sometimes because I'm like Jesus is the only one that can truly free you.

[00:51:18]>> Yeah. You don't want to say anything else says you Jesus said, >> but you're like, well, why does that work? But it works cuz a a necessary element is you're not going to be able to do this by yourself.

[00:51:28]>> It's surrender first.

[00:51:29]>> And unfortunately, our churches are not doing that. And so they have to go find somewhere else to get that aspect of it.

[00:51:36]>> Yeah. The first surrender is the key.

[00:51:38]Cuz I can tell you this, if you've ever spent any amount of your life, you know, for me it was four years, but any amount of your life in service to idolatry, which includes yourself, what you want, then you don't forget that, right, Zach?

[00:51:54]I mean, you know, that's always a part in your brain back there somewhere. But when when you then remember what it was like when you finally surrendered that and said, you know what, that's not going to rule my life anymore.

[00:52:05]>> Yeah.

[00:52:06]>> But Jesus Christ is through the power of the Holy Spirit. You don't remember that. I mean, you don't forget that either. And so that becomes the impetus.

[00:52:13]And so I love your story, Jay, because people find this at different times in their life. And and the key is that you find it before you before you cross over. The reason I told the story is cuz I was looking at it a little theologically too along the way cuz you're like, "What what happened? Was he was he really in? Who did we bury?" I was just thinking, but he did say one thing that I thought was profound and it echoed Hebrews 6 here. He said, "You know, my biggest surprise has been he said, I didn't realize how much joy there is in Christ."

[00:52:49]>> Oh man, that's so good. And I thought that verse about sharing in the Holy Spirit, you know, I mean, I think he knew the facts, knew the facts. He he he rattled them off to me. Like I mean, Jesus dying and being buried, but there was just something about kind of what we're talking about when you're looking at it all legally or transactionally.

[00:53:10]Uh I was told one, two, three, four.

[00:53:13]Here are the points. I agreed with them all. I I did it. I responded, but there was no relationship in there. Yeah.

[00:53:22]>> With the Lord. It it wasn't a sharing in the Holy Spirit.

[00:53:27]>> And so, he can work that out on his own.

[00:53:29]But I tell you what, seemed to be in a really good pl place now. And uh it was it was actually emotional and inspirational.

[00:53:36]>> That's good >> because you can't you can't fake a a new life in Christ. It's I've been I've had so many of those studies cuz I I told him at the end I was like let me tell you this. I mean I vaguely remember you but you're making a lot of sense right now cuz you know me if he's saying stuff you can tell whether somebody gets it or not.

[00:53:58]>> Yeah. Right. Right.

[00:53:59]>> Oh, he gets it. And uh so I thought that was a a good moment to say it's never too late to stop what you're doing and re-examine >> the relational aspect. We're called to a person a being >> who's filled with love.

[00:54:15]>> I do think it's interesting that the we've been talking about and Zach you mentioned from Hebrews about the law.

[00:54:20]You could make the same argument from uh Paul's writing of Galatians concerning circumcision which was a mark implemented by God. But then the people in Galatia were then wanting to make that a mark of salvation. And so they took something and turned it into an idol. But isn't it interesting that in that treatise to the Galatians, he closes with the most beautiful context of what how John closes his book in a contrast between the sinful nature and the fruit of the spirit. And so if you have a struggle, read that list of the fruit of the spirit. If you're struggling because love, joy, peace, patience, you know that we've quoted it many times. Then the Holy Spirit is doing his work. He He just bears the fruit. If there's a block somewhere in there, it's you. It's not him. Just know that that that's what you want to be praying about, how that can just flow more easily.

[00:55:11]>> Well, I was there was one thing that I know we're out of time, but I I was going to bring up about this idea of honoring the king and the Lord and him taking away not only our sin, but our shame, which is, you know, I'm glad we brought this up. But the story of Judas himself speaking of the sin that leads to death. What I found fascinating is I looked up the Greek word for honor.

[00:55:34]Every time it's used, it's like 21 times for honoring. But one time it's used the it's translated the price of 30 pieces of silver that Judas paid, you know, when they when the leaders took that and bought the field. It's the same word for honor.

[00:55:52]>> Wow. And it shows you that the sin that led to Judas's literal death >> was that was what he thought that was the the honor he put what Jesus's worth was which was 30 pieces of silver which was nothing.

[00:56:05]>> Yeah.

[00:56:06]>> And uh I found that fascinating.

[00:56:08]>> And it was so worthless to him at the end he just went and slung it back in the temple.

[00:56:12]>> There's something in there. You know, it's funny about that that right before that happened, >> uh the the woman uh who was it that that poured out the whole year's worth of perfume, you know. Yeah. On Jesus.

[00:56:26]>> Great illustration for And I think it I hope this will help you when you see the word sin to take in all those factors.

[00:56:35]>> Yeah, it's good. All right. Well, we'll uh we'll pick it up here next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.