[NEWs GEN] WEEKLY DEBATE: Should cheating be a crime?

[00:00:09][music] [music] We're here to bring a new type of news show, >> new insights, [music] new styles, and new topics every day.

[00:00:29]We are news [music] generation bringing news just for you. It's Wednesday, July 22nd here in I'm Jin and this is News Generation. [music] Joining us today is Kun.

[00:00:41]>> Happy Wednesday.

[00:00:41]>> Happy Wednesday. And also chess guest with us.

[00:00:43]>> Wednesday everyone.

[00:00:44]>> Happy Wednesday. And both are here to speak [music] on behalf of people in their 20s and 30s. We're already halfway through the week and we're taking on one of the toughest relationship questions out there to get over that midweek slump. So, everyone has different deal breakers when it comes to love and marriage. So, here's today's question.

[00:01:03]We're starting off kind of strong. So, is cheating an automatic deal breaker in a marriage for you, Kun?

[00:01:09]>> 100%.

[00:01:10]>> Okay.

[00:01:11]>> 100%. [laughter] >> Firmly.

[00:01:14]>> Yeah. Firmly. Cheating doesn't happen accidentally nor because that person was unaware of it. It comes with pure intention. And even if you know it's the wrong thing to thing thing to do, you know, you've already done it, which already shows that, you know, you've made a big mistake. So having to live with someone who has already lost faith in you and vice versa, >> uh it's only going to be a buildup of more hate >> uh to come and a continuous continuous arguments and constant conflict, which I don't like personally. And I don't think I can see my significant other in the same light once I find out that she has cheated on me. um for my sake to be honest and my me mental well-being and so I think ending the marriage seems like the right choice uh for everyone that's involved.

[00:01:59]>> I wonder do you think having kids or having for just yourself or any other people?

[00:02:03]>> I think that's another story because once you have kids it makes the decision even harder because you think about the child first and I don't want to go there to be honest but I'm talking about before having a child. So, it's better to actually end a marriage before you have a child. But if you do have a child, I think maybe give them a second chance. Who knows?

[00:02:22]>> That really wouldn't make a difference.

[00:02:23]But I get why for some people cheating isn't the biggest deal breaker. But like you said, I think what you said about it being so intentional makes it feel like an ultimate betrayal. So, what are your thoughts on this? Just >> 150%. [laughter] I would add just a 50% more to what Kun said because I agree with everything he said but just to add on a little bit more I think for me it's more than an emotional betrayal because for me it's shows the capacity of the persons to make decisions in life >> because usually when you cheat I think it shows a lot of the person's character how that person performs under pressure stress temptation and like what kind of decision they make or choices so surprisingly I would be more okay with someone falling out of love with me and then tells me that they want to move on rather than trying to maintain the relationship through cheating or doing something that I don't know of >> because I think that can be very normal >> but cheating shows the capacity for the persons to hold many many challenges in life and I would very much not want to continue my life and go through challenges and difficulties with someone I can't trust. So, like you say, if they didn't break it off when they should have, it's also it's almost like there's they're also it shows that they're very inconsiderate and very selfish to do that.

[00:03:36]>> So, and now it's time for our weekly debate. So, today we're taking a closer look at one of the most controversial issues in marriage, infidelity, and whether it should have legal consequences. So, how do countries today deal with adultery through the law?

[00:03:53]>> Uh, yeah. So in South Korea up until 2015, adultery was deemed unlawful here and that carried a prison sentence of up to two years without any fine. However, it was abolished on the grounds that marriage and family life cannot be maintained through legal coercion while at the same time violating one's sexual autonomy, privacy, and freedom. Now looking at other countries around the world, Korea isn't the only country to have abolished this law. In fact, it is actually one of the later countries to have followed suit. So, if we take a look at the screen, adultery was abolished from 1937 in Sweden, 1947 in Japan, 1968 in Germany, and 1947 in France, and in some states in the US, while China regulations do exist, but there are no adultery punishments. So, we can see that Korea was actually one of the newer countries to actually abolish this law. However, adultery remains a criminal offense in some countries governed by Islamic law or influenced by Catholic traditions where it may be treated as a serious offense.

[00:04:55]So, it really depends on the cultural and of course the religious background of countries.

[00:04:59]>> Right. So, it's interesting how attitudes have shift shifted from treating adultery as a crime that also would lead to also jail time to seeing it more as a private matter although that still isn't the case everywhere.

[00:05:12]And that brings us to the bigger question and our first debate question for today's discussion of where the law should draw the line between private relationships and public responsibility.

[00:05:22]And our panelists here have their ox panels ready. So let's put it to a vote and see where they stand on this issue.

[00:05:28]So the first debate question we have is should infidelity be punishable by law?

[00:05:34]Yes or no? Jessica, do you want to go first?

[00:05:37]>> It's a yes for me. So yes, it should be.

[00:05:39]>> Yeah, I know. [gasps] Cute. Oh, I would be very interested to hear it. But for me, I think as we mentioned, there are some that argue that there is a reason that marriage is a standing legal and social institution and it is almost a contract. So, if there isn't a punishment by law, it shouldn't have a special place like a legal status that it has in terms of marriage. And also because as Kan mentioned since it was abolished as a criminal offense now you can only file civil charges and it can go up to about 10 million1 to 30 million one for the uh for the victim to charge the offended and that is only around $6700 to maximum 20k I believe and personally I believe the it's not so much about the money but it's about the time the emotions spent and the resources that you created together to build the relationship.

[00:06:31]So I think the bigger question is what is the necessary legal protection for something as legal status as a marriage when it is broken is the important question for me personally.

[00:06:41]>> Are you arguing that we should bring back the um imprisonment [laughter] of more than two years perhaps?

[00:06:47]>> I think it's not so much about the imprisonment but I don't think there should be limits >> on the civil damages.

[00:06:54]Oh, so you don't you feel like so getting rid of the civil p the punishment where they get prison time that that can be abolished, but you just want the amount.

[00:07:04]>> Yeah. And I it's so difficult because it's not so much about the criminal charges being brought back, but I wish there was more weight >> put on the damage that is being done when a relationship is broken because people treat it as more as an emotional betrayal. But I think it's more than that. I think it is an investment that you put in together. It's like a business.

[00:07:21]>> Yeah. Also, time goes into it too. So you said no.

[00:07:24]>> You know, you know, Chesca has a good point, but on the other on [laughter] the other hand, >> regulating and punishing someone in their private sexual life and personal emotions through criminal law seems like an excessive exercise of state power and violates the right to self-determination. Now, it's actually pretty hard to put a a price tag on someone's emotional suffering through just cheating compared to other crimes such as murder, assault, fraud, etc. And of course marriage comes with great commitment and responsibility. Therefore it should not be done with just emotional attachment. So I feel that couples should be mature enough to come to a resolution themselves without the help of the law and legal punishments uh with fines of course. So as we see already uh many countries have already adopted abolishing adultery as it seemed too much of intervening in people's personal lives which highlights that this particular issue is something to be not something to be dealt in a court.

[00:08:27]>> Right? So one side argues that marriage is a legal commitment that deserves legal protection while the other believes the government shouldn't interfere in people's private lives. So, it's a debate between protecting the institution of marriage and protecting individual freedom. So, we also wanted to hear what our viewers think on this.

[00:08:45]So, we ran a poll on the ID News YouTube channel asking should adultery be punishable by law. And here's what the results showed. So, nearly [music] 2/3 or uh 62% believe adultery should be punishable by law while [music] 38% disagree.

[00:09:00]So looking at the results, it seems many people still see marriage as a commitment that deserves legal protection. And while the legal consequences of adultery have changed, public opinion is often a different story. So how is adultery viewed in Korean society today since the laws changed in 2015? Yeah. So while culturally I think you know depending on the culture and you know religion people view cheating sort of differently in Korea I think it is quite highly unforgiving because especially in one survey Koreans actually ranked infidelity and cheating as the number one most unforgiving moral behavior and if we take a look at the screen we can see this a lot more clearly. So interestingly, some argue that since the adultery was decriminalized in 2015, public opinion has become even harsher because criminal punishment is no longer an opinion. Many believe that the quote court of the people has to be a lot stronger and now people actually expose the affair publicly and they reveal the identities and profiles of the people involved and even sort of file official complaints at the workplace because I think before a lot of Koreans try to put it under the carpet try to be a little bit more hush hush even if they were the victims but now they're becoming more public and now people are actually making it so that the cheaters will be known and I think one of the opinion opinion is because it was decriminalized, people feel like they deserve more justice from the opinions of the people. So they want it to be out there so that they can get the responses and the feedback. Yeah. And I guess I mean we just saw from the poll the public opinion. Yes. More a lot the majority believes that should be crim like criminally punished. So I see why that's happening. So even without the criminal punishment, social consequence can be severe with public opinion often being the harshest judge. And that raised another question about where those consequence should end. Leading to our second debate question of the day.

[00:10:54]And once again, our panels will use their ox paddles to cast their votes.

[00:10:59]So, should someone be fired from their job for committing adultery? Yes or no?

[00:11:06]So, this time, can we go first?

[00:11:09]>> I think I knew your answer. [laughter] >> Again, by the same logic, >> go on. Extra mad affairs should be should only remain only between those who are involved without the whole public finding out. You know, if someone at work committed adultery and in turn affected their work performance, uh damaged the company's image, brand image and negatively influenced the morale of their co-workers, then I think it's fair for the company to actually fire the person. But you know if the person continues to fulfill their duties uh with no disruption then private affairs should be kept private and untouched.

[00:11:45]Now if the company dismisses a person purely based on what they personally think is wrong then that's considered abuse of power which is another debatable moral issue that will arise.

[00:11:59]>> That's what I think Chesco.

[00:12:01]>> Okay. I may be actually more Korean than I think I am, but I actually do think there should be some punishment and even dismissal when it comes to affairs like this because as I mentioned earlier, I think there is a very fine line between what is a public affair and a private matter. So when some people are held you know higher standard and ethical standards in their career such as people who are in legal forces or people who are in education or public officials then I think cheating demonstrates their decisionmaking capacity and their honesty and integrity which they are held very highly for their position and the job and as Kun mentioned it can damage the brand of the officials and the position as well. So I would actually think dismissal could be in place and also there was actually a case where a police officer was involved in an exmarital affair and was actually dismissed from his position for that course. Yeah.

[00:12:57]>> Right. So one side sees adultery as a private matter that shouldn't affect employment while the other argues that trust and integrity matters especially in professions held to higher ethical standards. So we want to hear directly from our viewers on this as well. also ran another poll asking should public officials or teachers then be dismissed for adultery. And here's what the results showed. So, the results showed a clear majority with [music] 66% voting yes and 34% voting no.

[00:13:28]So, it looks like many viewers appear to believe that public officials and teachers have a greater responsibility to uphold public trust both at home and in their free time, in their personal lives as well. But what about people whose lives are already in the public eye? And that brings us to our final de debate question. Forge stays on the topic.

[00:13:47]>> Should celebrities and get cancelled if they commit adultery. We know there's a big cancel culture going on these days.

[00:13:53]>> Yes. Yes. Ah, this one is tricky, but I'm going to stick with >> they should be because only because and I grew up in America, so this is very Korean of me, but I do strongly believe that fame is a privilege, not a right.

[00:14:07]So the fact that they are earning you know income and sort of status through people's support and sort of emotional and even physical donations I think it's they are held to a higher standard and accountability when it comes to moral wrongdoings and also public celebrities sort of influence a lot of young people's behavior and also maybe their standard of ethics. So I do think they should be held at a higher standard for that reason.

[00:14:34]>> I see.

[00:14:35]It's your take on this.

[00:14:36]>> I'm I'm [laughter] on the other side today. I'm very against choice today for some reason.

[00:14:40]>> It's okay. It makes it interesting. It does. And I love to hear your opinion.

[00:14:43]>> I think moral failings certainly do deserve criticism. But >> the public response these days seems excessively harsh at times and punitive at the same time. Now with the widespread use of social media where people can pretty much leave any kind of personal hateful comments that actually cross the line to really hurt the other person. And in South Korea, certain film directors and um business leaders have faced negative criticism from the public opinion for years. And I I believe the criticism has perhaps gone a little too far because it's already happened what 5 10 years ago. And they're still talking about it because it's gossip, right? And people like gossip and I also believe that there should be a clear distinction between um a person's professional achievements and their private personal lives. So although celebrities need a good public image of course um to maintain their level of popularity at the end of the day you know they're just humans with similar flaws just like us and whether you're a fan or just a consumer of whatever their their product is I think you have the choice to just not watch not buy boycott it. Uh so I think at the end of the day just live and let live. Mhm. So, one side believes public figures should be held to a higher moral standard while the other argues that those who make mistakes shouldn't face a lifelong punishment.

[00:16:04]So, to close out today's discussion, let's hear your personal and more and final takeaways on this. So, what stood out to you most from today's discussion, Chesca?

[00:16:13]>> I think first of all, I really love the debate because we were all on both opposite sides. So I got to hear different arguments but I think at the end of the day the question that I still have is where do you draw the line between something that is personal and private versus it becoming public >> because I still believe that a lot of the things that humans make either it's a mistake or a decision it shows the capacity of their decision-m process. So for me while cheating is a personal matter it does show the person's capacity to perform other works in more public places or in official settings.

[00:16:48]>> So I still would hold cheating at a higher standard and would like my colleagues and my bosses to be held at a higher standard as well as I hold myself at a higher standard >> and your future husband as well.

[00:17:00]>> Please do don't cheat. I mean, do you agree? You mentioned several times that it's about character and especially like public figures or celebrities or even teachers are the one especially teachers are supposed to teach you moral standards but they're not following those basic standards of you know being faithful. Exactly. I feel like it would be hard for me as a student to really take their word to heart. Right. And especially if they're leaders at a company or even a country, how do I trust that person to not fall or crumble under certain pressure and temptation?

[00:17:30]And like celebrities also often say like they're not supposed to be role models, but they're in the public eye. People look up to them, so it is what it is.

[00:17:37]What are your thoughts on this human?

[00:17:39]>> Honestly, no one's perfect, but everyone strives to for perfection, which, you know, it's common for everyone, but it's not easy. It's definitely not easy, but it's a very difficult thing to achieve.

[00:17:50]And the saying, you know, what goes around comes around is something that I try to follow every day. And it's a good constant reminder that you know good things happen to good people and obviously bad things can uh happen to bad people. So trying to be a good person first before expecting the other person to be good to me could be the first step to becoming uh a person who can actually meet the right person.

[00:18:15]Especially when it comes to marriage it's a huge decision in your life. a massive commitment that comes that follows from that decision on >> and a contract >> and a contract as well but I don't think it should be you shouldn't just be binded by that contract it goes beyond that you know it's all about trust you know when you go through your lows >> can the other person be with you next to you and vice versa because we only see the highs during um relationships or I think marriage is a different story you know you go [clears throat] through everything in life and are you going to be that supportive person because if you are, I'm sure the other person will be in return. So, I think like what Chesca said, it's kind of like a business deal as well. It's like kind of a give and take kind of relationship at the same time. But at the at the end of the day, it's all about trust and do I trust this person? And in order for me to trust that person, I need to be a trustworthy person. So, I think it works both ways.

[00:19:08]And I hope everyone falls into a healthy relationship and ends up marrying the right person just like me.

[00:19:14]>> I'm not karma is really Oh, yes.

[00:19:16][laughter] Well said. So karma is real.

[00:19:18]So don't do things that you don't want think to happen to you. So infidelity isn't just a personal issue. It also raises difficult questions about law, ethics, and public expectations. And as you've heard today, there is no easy answer to where accountability should begin or end. And while opinions remain sharply divided, the one thing is quite certain. It's a topic that continues to challenge our ideas of justice, privacy, and responsibility. That brings us to the end of today's episode of News Generation. Manujin will be back tomorrow at 10:30 a.m. create time with more stories and [music] discussions. A big thanks to Hun.

[00:19:51]>> Thank you for having me.

[00:19:52]>> And also Chesca.

[00:19:53]>> Pleasure as always. Mine. Thank you.

[00:19:54]>> And to our viewers, thank you so much for watching. Hopefully the only cheating you'll experience [music] is on your next cheat day. We are News Generation.