The discussion offers a sophisticated bridge between classical theology and modern statecraft, though it underscores the inherent tension in applying medieval moral absolutes to the fluid complexities of contemporary warfare. It successfully elevates the discourse beyond partisan rhetoric into the realm of historical ethics.
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Raymond Ibrahim - is Iran war just? Trump vs Pope | Christianity & adding Judaism takes追加:
Hello. Hello everybody. How y'all doing?
You know what's funny? I was just sharing on how I forgot to share the live stream on socials and I was like weird cuz I don't see anyone on my uh live stream and suddenly I realized that I entered the wrong live studio. So I have no idea where what I was broadcasting to but not what I was supposed to be broadcasting to. And here is the interesting part. I think it's been some time ago that I've made, you know, I made an live talking about war and the difference in war and going to war in Judaism versus Islam and things like that. If I'm not mistaken, I barely remember what I was talking about in that live stream some time ago. And I saw Raymond Ibrahim. It's two hours.
Don't worry, we're not going to go through all of it cuz there are a lot of parts here where he uh just like you know interacts with his audience and so there is uh yeah one second um one second I'm trying to figure something out anyway uh Yeah, I'm trying to understand where it was broadcasted to. Anyway, who knows? Who knows? So, uh, where is everybody? Where are the comments?
Hello. Hello. Okay, let's start. You know what? Let's start.
Let's just start. Let's just start.
Let's just I want to say I was surprised by several things. First of all, like you're all en I hope you're all enjoying my like um thing here which I didn't cover. So, uh have fun with that. Now, you can call me names in the comments.
It's okay. I'm okay with that. I shall survive.
You know what I thought was weird? So, he brought up the the entire history of just war in Christianity. And here is the thing that I thought was interesting. I didn't in the two hours I was listening him and I did to him and I did skip some parts. I tried my best.
Okay, I was painting. I was painting while I was u listening and I was trying my best to hear every word because there was one element that I didn't understand where it was which is the Bible like the Old Testament like quoting the Old Testament or anything like any references to war as it appears in the Old Testament instead.
Well, there is a lot of talk about church fathers and I um I kind of also I'll be genu genuine. Okay, you know what? Why? Let's start. Just just let's just start >> a little sweating. So, he his words have a >> Okay. Do you guys hear anything? Cuz I don't >> And why can I not hear anything?
Maybe because my headphones are connected to my iPad. Let me disconnect it.
>> Okay, you guys could hear.
>> So, just a heads up, I'm not dying. Not that I know of.
>> Don't care. Let's continue.
>> Also, the omission, what's not said and what is rejected.
Okay. So, first of all, while they do accept, let's what I would call the nativity story, right? The Christmas story.
>> Oh, so it started with talking about how Islam uh loves Jesus, but then he goes ahead and Yeah. and and explains that it's not the same kind of Jesus. And then he had a very interesting uh commentary on that which was like okay imagine you have a grandpa your grandpa passed away and then somebody comes and he is your he and he says oh my your grandpa was my grandpa as well and then when you guys tell story to each other about your your grandpa and who what he was like this other guy that claims to be your cousin I guess um has a very different vision of grandpa in mind which kind of makes his entire existence an assault and and not a very fond memory anymore. And I thought the whole entire story the whole entire thing was so ironic.
So ironic. I'm so sorry. I just every time Christians say that um Muslims plag plagiarized like I can't. I'm sorry.
Like I just it I I want to be polite. I want to be like Mansu who is like, "Oh my god, like you know, like Christians are great. They're lovely and awesome."
And I I'm actually I think I'm also going to bring his conversation with an Iranian uh Christian who somebody who converted to Christianity who escaped from Iran. I want to bring I elements from that conversation over but uh because he was um he was like the he the way he spoke is because he knew Christianity from the Bible. So he could not enter a church until he escaped Iran. So because of that he learned about Christianity through the gospel through the Bible. And I have to say like the way he understood it really warmed my heart. It was like first of all like he he he said like oh I get I understand why why they they hate the the you know the gospel so much because it's like it's a story about the Jews and they hate Jews and that's the way they chase them. I was like oh my god a Christian that talks about Christianity and actually says something that about Jews and the fact that they exist. Oh wow. Anyway, so I like that. But Raymond, what he does is just he's until he until the very end is like the word anything to do with Judaism obviously like Jews or whatever was out away from his mouth like he wouldn't say anything which which is fine. I guess it's fine. But but because I just watched today as well another Christian speaking of the gospel and he did acknowledge right the fact that there are a couple of Jews mentioned there. I just it's just so I it's just I cannot I cannot with hypocrisy. It just hurts me.
>> Infidels or kufur kafers plural are they who say Jesus is the son of Allah, son of God. also Ezra >> and it also condemns the concept of the trinity. All right. So Islam is inherently against what Christians such as Tucker Carlson I assume hold dearly to be true about Jesus. And this lead >> yeah like the fact he was a Jew and not a Muslim or something like that >> leads to um the real a bigger issue about this whole Abrahamism as it's called the idea >> that um Islam is actually a sister or brother religion to Christianity because it shares the same biblical figures going all the way back to Adam and Eve right uh so in the Quran Islamic tradition Adam and Eve Moses Moses, Noah, um, everyone you can think about all the way up until Jesus are mentioned and they're all great prophets of course. Um, and they all have their great roles, but they are actually being appropriated by Muslims beginning with Muhammad.
>> Tell me tell me about appropriation Raymond Ibrahim. Like tell me tell me more about it.
in order to validate the message of Islam. Why? Because >> I'm sorry. I don't want to be like that.
I'm sorry. I don't want to be like that.
But it bothers me. I'm not It bothers me.
It's, you know, it's like it's it's like you're talking about appropriating.
If you're a 7th century Arab in Arabia and the entire Middle East, >> way closer by the way when it comes to I mean actually I don't know how much closer it is but you know like the Arabs are at least geographically close you know >> east is overwhelmed >> ah by the way like uh Raymond is from Egypt I guess he is geographically close >> with Christianity and everyone including Jews know who Moses and Adam and Eve and >> including Jews was your mother. I'm sorry for my languaging and including Jews. Jews know about these in everybody, including Jews. No [ __ ] Yo, I'm sorry. I don't I don't I don't want you guys to see that side of me. I want to pretend like I'm not bothered at all.
>> And uh Noah R. Okay, everyone knows them. That is those are the names associated with faith and religion and God. Okay. And >> whose faith? Who's God?
>> You're the seventh century Arab. Well, you better align yourself with them and make them part of your tradition. Not come and say, "Oh, they're all wrong and I'm right." But >> okay, >> the trick is he appropriated their names, but then he changed who they were, what they represented in a way to validate his new message of Islam.
>> Wow. Interesting. Just remove the Islam part >> Islam. And so in the case of Jesus, not only was he not uh crucified, not killed, and therefore not resurrected, and therefore not the son of God, but he's actually very keen on uh fulfilling Muhammad's worldview.
>> You know what really bothers me about Christian theology, and I'm so sorry, right? Because El right you know Elijah in the Bible right the Bible he was taken by carriage like a fiery carriage by God to heaven is a son of God as well like this is the only thing like my only question to Christians like okay fine like Jesus was resurrected blah blah blah and no problems no issues whatever right like yes you can have it I don't care but like uh can you at least like explain like the story is Elijah like like why is he not the son of god. Can somebody please please please tell me is there any Christian who said anything about that because it's always been sitting in my mind it's like yeah he got resurrected and everything and he performed all those miracles but like what about when then what about Elijah he was literally taken by a carriage like what what is what about this one then is is he also like what what is like I'm just so confused how does it work quest. So Jesus when he comes back in these >> Yeah. What why is why is why is it not the Messiah Elijah? Why isn't Elijah not the Messiah? I don't get it. Like he was also like like how is it how does resurrection like if resurrection makes you a messiah it also means like being taken by a carriage to the heaven that would also make you a messiah right?
like what where because there is there is nothing here that says like a messiah needs to be resurrected. So I don't get it also like a messiah is not even a a miracle working figure is just a king.
So I'm so confused.
>> The Islamic tradition to earth because he does around judgment day and in that context he's an esqueological figure as well. when he comes back, he's going the the things that Jesus is going to be keen on doing is breaking the cross, all the crosses, killing all the pigs, >> which is, by the way, like I don't know what the pigs did wrong, but like the cross thing, it was like it was a symbol of humiliation.
And and I want to say like the entire church thing is a is a church parade is a thing of emulation. You know, do you have like the guy that is crucified and it says on top of it like king of the Jews? I I get it. I get the message.
This is what we do to kings of Jews.
Like this like this is a humiliation parade for Jews. Like but and and the real Christian symbol is a fish, not a cross. It like the cross is a humiliating gesture. Yes.
>> And then abregating jiza. As I alluded to, Jiza is in Quran 9:29. That's the central verse that calls for un unrestricted warfare on the people of the book, which is Christians and Jews, until they either convert or they pay tribute, which is to say really well, first of all, he's not Jesus. His name is Asa. And what he is is really a doctor.
>> Yeah. Okay, I get it.
Did I lose you?
>> Yes.
>> My screen went blank.
>> Are you there?
>> Went blank.
>> Someone say something in the chat lest I speak to myself again.
>> Froze. Yes. Am I still frozen?
>> No.
>> Generically hostile to the other because each one is supposedly claiming a truth.
And if you're going to claim a different truth, then yeah, there's obviously an obstacle. But it's very generic. And this would exist between every religion.
So Christianity, >> Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, all these religions would have the same idea which is um essentially we have a we have a a truth. You obviously don't accept it.
You contradict it to one degree or >> no like I I this is like and I don't know how many times I can do that. Do don't push your own view on religion on other religions. Like I don't know I cannot speak for for other religions by can saying Judaism for example. You can have your own thing. It's it's like it's it's we like you know it's it's so not true.
>> Okay, that >> it's like we don't we don't see it like that. It's not true. Like we see it like a competing no leave like leave us alone. That's the only thing >> generic. But now the idea is that if there is for example the Islam the Islam case you have a religion which okay obviously it rejects uh what I talked about about Christ and the central core teachings um but it accepts uh a lot of the other uh things so therefore they should be kind of close. No. Okay. And I'm going to give you an analogy to understand what this how this goes. I've given it before which is basically imagine you you have a grandfather and he's dead now.
>> Okay. I think I just >> and you knew him and you were very fond of him and you know you have great recollections of him.
>> Okay. Okay. Let's continue. I want to go I get to the war engagement rules of Christianity. This is the part I thought was interesting >> saying names >> because I wanted to add obviously Judaism. Right away he doesn't talk about Protestants, but my guess is is it part Protestants like everybody opens their own Bible and decides for themselves what's written there? I don't know >> people and therefore oh we're natural allies but the fact is it's because you share the same names but at the same time you don't you you you you see these names and personages in a completely different way. They mean something different. Well, that actually is now an obstacle. That's not a a cause of friendship. That's a greater obstacle than if it was the person who doesn't say, "I know your grandfather." Which is to say, then if it was a Hindu or a Buddhist uh or someone of another religion that doesn't have anything to do with Jesus in this case. Do you see what I'm saying? So the idea >> Oh, I'm not You are not understanding what Raymond is driving the ball. No, I'm not. I'm I'm understanding. He talks about his own religion as if it is true for everything else's like everyone else's understanding of the of how religion works. That's what I I what what is there like I understand his point. I understand his point but I disagree with his meta meta analysis. How do I say it or how do I how do I describe it? Right?
He what he says is not wrong. He just uses how do how do I say it?
I don't know it just uses like wrong meta.
>> The idea that we often hear that oh these are cousin religions and oh wow we have a natural bridge to build etc etc. It's it's the exact opposite. The closer religions are the more prone they are to actually hate and war with each other.
Look at Catholicism and Protestantism, which we're going to be talking about a little bit.
>> I'm not sure it's even true, by the way, >> because we're going to get into just war theory.
>> I mean, that's something Christians do.
The closer the like Hinduism, for example, he brought it as an example without ever touching about the fact that Hinduism is a lot of different philosophies and a lot of different way of practicing it. And they don't necessarily go to war about it. actually they go to war more against Islam or others that are farther away like this is what bothers me right it says those things but it comes from Christianity it comes from the perception okay in Christianity it was like that so it means every religion it's not >> um it's not true >> to the outside world they're both Christians and by and large they are both Christians right they both believe in the core tenants about Jesus Christ they all agree that he was you know like Muslims that he was born of a virgin, etc., etc., performed miracles, that he was the son of God, that he was crucified, that he was resurrected, and is coming to judge. Okay? And yet, so you would think, wow, Protestants and Catholics should be the absolute best of friends.
Historically, well, they killed each other left and right. They weren't killing Hindus, all right? they were killing each other because again the closer you get the more prone for violence and or actual hostility to exist between the two groups. All right. So I >> yeah that that entire sentence was not nonsensical but I I get but it was picking off the cuff and is sick so I forgive him. Trump took to uh truth social and uh made his opinions clear which I already indicated about what he said and he attacked the pope etc etc. So to me this is an ideal time.
>> Uh Joshua I see your question. I'm going to bring everything that it comes to just war but and what it looks like in the uh in the from the Jewish perspective. I'm gonna bring those laws and I'm gonna am gonna don't worry gonna cover some extra things. I just let's start here >> time to visit the topic of just war.
What is a just war in in in the Christian tradition of course and as we're going to see there's a lot of subjectivity. So in what follows I'm going to talk about what is just war theory and even there I can't limit it.
I can't even say this is the Christian teaching because even within Christianity there's so many sects and factions, right?
>> Um and so what am I so who are who's going to decide on this and who's not going to decide? Um so I I took some notes here which I'm going to be sharing with you. But um and just to clarify, what follows is not my opinion of what Christian just war theory is. What follows is an objective um analysis of uh uh just war theory as it was understood historically. So we're going to look at it, what it is, how it manifested itself historically, and then finally try to answer the question, well, is the current war just or not? Is the Pope right or is Trump right? Okay.
And again, the answer I'm giving you, this isn't me. I'm not sitting here telling you, well, I, as a Christian, believe it's this, it's just, or not just. I'm not doing that. I'm not interested in doing that. I don't think you should even be interested in what I think to be honest with you. And I'm not interested in what other people think. I really want to ascertain what is the closest reading that we can get of how Christianity in general at large would answer this question. All right. Now as I mentioned there's different factions and sects and uh of Christianity but uh according to the general large ones let's start with orthodoxy which is what I'm a member of. So according to the orthodox churches, the eastern churches, war there is no just war theory actually not a formalized systematic one. There's uh and the general view is war is evil and um but if you do go to war it's because it's a necessary evil. Um and you it's just you know but it's again it's not systematized. It's just it's we follow the king, the leader, and if it's time to go to war, fine. But there's no deep rationale or logic really behind it.
It's a bad thing. The you know, according to some readings, the even the soldiers have to repent after killing the enemy and so on, >> which which is normal by the way. It's like I don't like it. That means that there is no that means that the Orthodox church historically was out of politics.
War is war. Church is church, you know, it makes sense. All right.
>> So on and so forth. Okay. And it's never really even >> Oh. Uh don't worry. By the way, guys, I did listen to the entire thing. I >> seen as truly just. All right. So that that's >> Yeah. And don't forget and smash the like. It's 100% free. Thank you so much.
Go support this channel and buy me coffee. I cannot do this without you.
and also send me super chats otherwise I don't know you guys ask questions that's it support this channel I'm working really really really hard for you I'll just say I don't know >> that's the general orthodox rendering and I recall for example >> by the way that doesn't mean if if there isn't that there isn't a just war it means that after here's the thing right here's the thing so If you went to war, right, you did some things, you need some post-t trauma uh therapy and you can go to the church and confess to on your sins and there is like a like there is a system for that.
This is what it is like there is another like hidden mechanism in saying war is war. This is where it's not our business. We're not going to even we're not going to say what is a just war because we're out of politics orthodox Christians. It's the king's choice. But in the way in the end of it, right, people would have sometimes trauma. So here, come to the church after you go to war, come to the church and that way we can heal you. That's like it's an invitation to to come and heal in the church, which I think is an great way to do that. Then you have to understand that sometimes like people do if you just tell them like come here because you need to be healed after you have experienced trauma then people would be like wouldn't understand or it would it's going to be um it's going to hurt their honor or the way they understand like oh we're like you know it's like what do you mean it's like you know what are we so there is like a way to make people come to you to get treatment And that is the way the church did it. That could be another reason, right? Like in and another thing is that they knew that it was out of their reach to make sure that to see or overwhel or or even you know after some time it's like oh you said this war was just but we lost right and then the church would lose its glory. So it makes a a lot of sense for the churches just to stay out of it. And it also makes a lot of sense for the church to say hey after it doesn't matter war is like is sinful in nature.
So come to us and then we'll you know we're going to address the horrors and stuff and give you a hug or whatever. So I think it's it's um um it's it's like you need to understand like there are hidden mechanisms that we read today as oh uh they were judging. No, they weren't judging. Not necessarily, right?
You don't you don't know that. Sometimes you have to use the tools that exist in your world in order to get a certain outcome. That could be one of them.
Lies destroy lives. Thank you so much for your support. Orthodox Christianity was the religion the religion of the Byzantine Empire. They were the ones in power till the full Constantinople the fall of Constanopel in 4053 1450. Thank you so much for your extra knowledge that you've gifted us.
uh >> for example in my readings and studies over the years that uh for example niferus or nififerous focus I the great eastern Roman Byzantine emperor who wre havoc amongst the Muslims and and he was way before the crusades I think in the uh 10th century or late 9th century and he tried to sort of get orthodoxy to get on board with a sort of just war theory or even you know even even flirt flirting with the concept of holy war.
Uh but the the orthodox would not budge.
Okay? And it was just war is evil. Don't do it. And it's kind of like the last absolute resort if you have to do it.
Okay? But there's no elaborate teaching for it.
Okay. Now, the Catholic, this is what we're going to have to look at because that's where you find an elaborate systematic uh theology about just war.
Highly developed over the course of uh you know, a millennium. It's been honed and discussed and we're going to get into all that. Um, and the long and short of it is of course that war can be justified. It can be morally justified. It is bad. It is evil. It's not something we should enter into lightly. Uh, we being Catholics in this case, but there are certain conditions in which case it's okay. Now the Protestants as usual with the Protestants you can't you can't say Protestants because there's so many different sects amongst the Protestants themselves and so you have many um who actually did accept just war theory and they more or less followed the Catholic teaching which I'll be outlining and sometimes >> you know here's another thing I like like the fact like like first explain why is there a just war theory like why would the church even step into that realm to begin with. What is the justification of needing to have such a thing that is called a just war?
Um >> they adapted it, changed it around, revised it. Um and in no is special significant way. But then there were also Protestants who were extreme pacifists, you know, Anabaptists, Menanites, the Amish, Quakers, and so forth. And apparently these groups honestly believe that no violence can never ever ever be uh rationalized, justified, or accepted. All right? So if if some man's bursting into your house and killing your children and raping your wife, um yeah, you just uh you need to take it because you're you have to be a good Christian. Um, and if I'm misrepresenting them, someone tell me in in the comments because I I don't pretend to be some sort of expert about the pacifist Protestant groups that I just named, but that's based on my readings what I've seen. Okay, so uh there it is uh about those guys. Um, hey lies destroy lives. Thanks for that great super chat.
And uh I'll take it now since it seems to be about what I was talking about. Um Christians learn from their mistake.
>> Hey, lies destroy lives. I see you. Hey, you sent him $80 and I get $8. Fine. I see. I see now.
>> Commonality is not you know that the Catholic and the Orthodox their splits are much more minimal. they're much more similar uh in their theology than the Protestants.
That's a completely different major split. Okay. So when before the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century, you know, to Catholic and Orthodox, that was just the Christian world and it had a certain veneer in the east which we now call Orthodox and it had a certain veneer in the west which we now call Catholic. Okay? And I just say this to you because like I said, it's sort of anacronistic when someone just said, "Oh, well that's the Catholic view in 1200." That was the only view.
Okay? Uh that's all there was. Okay?
Even these words Catholic and Orthodox now they're big C big O. And uh that's to indicate it because it has an identity marker. It wasn't originally.
Catholic simply meant universal.
Orthodox meant the straight way. And when you look at the creeds, they use both words oftentimes interchangeably.
The Orthodox Church, which still holds, of course, to the Nyine creed, uses the word Catholic in the creed. It talks about one Catholic apostolic church because it's saying one universal church. So again, there's something of a misnomer and an anacronism in my mind when we use these words to talk about history. So, and all this is simply to and again, remember, I'm not Catholic.
Um, so I'm not uh a lot of people think I'm trying to defend Catholicism. I don't have a a dog in the fight as it were. I'm looking at it as objectively as I can. looking at history trying to learn and this >> it's not objective his way of analy analyzing thing which is hilarious to me which I think like kitty kind of had a slip in the end that showed how >> there are many other names and theologians and uh factors that arose throughout this the years and the centuries and I maybe I'll I'll mention a couple as we go along but let's for now focus on the usual ones okay which is and we'll start off with Augustine who lived between 354 and 430 AD.
All right. And um he's credited with being the first uh again I would say first major Christian theologian. Who's to say there weren't others before him that maybe >> lies destroy lives. When you are constantly being attacked by Muslims, Vikings, and others, you are guided by Jesus teachings. It's only natural to come up with a theory about when it is right to fight. Lies destroy lives. I recommend opening the Bible sometimes to find that um there are actually descriptions and when it's time to go to war and some laws on how to conduct war as well, you know.
And I think if the Christians would have followed those rules, a lot of a lot of the uh crusader like you know mishaps on the way might have been avoided you know because there are rules of engagement in war in the Bible itself. Who would have thought? And if they would have followed that maybe they would have done less awful things on the way there.
But thank you so much for your support.
Thank you.
>> We've lost their writings and so forth.
Um, all right. But he's seen as the ma the first major Christian theologian to read.
>> By the way, I have to say here's the thing, right? Why is it more difficult to describe what a war what is the cause of war when it comes to Christianity?
And it is the same kind of uh conundrum and kind of problem that Jews in exile had. So Jews and exiles and Christians had the same problem when it comes to understanding and describing war. So in Jewish exile right in the Talmud and in general there is suddenly a distinct the more talks about when to go to war and so there is yes the Rambam talk about not just war because in Judaism it's not just war it's a a war that it is there is mandatory war by the way so there is mandatory war there is a command there is a war that is um commanded But it when you say commanded it's like it's um for for God like for for the greater good. Just say it like that.
whatever I I it's commanded but it's and there is the uh and then there is a war of choice a war that like a voluntary war a war that for expansion and and there are those three and I think and most of the time like the command commanded war and the mandatory war are just unified into one.
I think there should be actually three types of war. I don't think the commanded war and the mandatory war should be the same one from my experience. But there was an acknowledgment that there is like a it's a limit there is a limited limited ability to generalize rules around war when you are out of context of sovereignty and what's interesting about Christianity is here's the wars in the Bible are clear you have borders you know what your borders are right because here's the land God gave you. So you know that if you go to war outside of the your borders for example and to expand that is h that is not a commanded war. A commanded war is to uh first of all defend yourself. You defend your territory the territory that you god promised to you. And uh and there are sever and the Amalcch. Amalecch is a special com commanded. Amalcch is a very special war because for when it comes to I would say the RGC you can say that the it becomes an um a commanded war because they fit the description of a Malik. And because they fit the description of a Malik, it it could be a mand it could be seen as a commanded war which I'm saying on purpose. It's not mandatory war.
Meditatory war is on your B on is for batting on your for your borders. The what's special about Amalecch is that the the idea in Amalcch was not just to shoot them out of the border but that they are so awful they shouldn't exist in this world at all because wherever they would go they would do evil which is different of from when you go to war on resources. If you go to war on resources, the assumption is okay fine, somebody won. But it's not necessarily like those the other people are evil.
It's it's so much so that even when the Jews were escaped in Egypt, there is a entire segment in the Tamud that talks about but what if there were good people among the Egyptian soldiers that died in that war? And then it was like, okay, at war sometimes you kill good people because they are on the other side of the war, not because like you know they're inherently evil. Amale though they are evil and suddenly the rules are different. It's a different kind of war and I would say like you can claim that the IRGC is a war to eradicate evil and can fall under the the commanded war on a Malik >> really start expressing articulating and justifying what came to be known as just war theory. Now he never wrote a book called just war theory or an article or an essay or a tidy list saying this is what's needed. Rather his thoughts were gleaned from his major works um throughout his works especially of course the city of God also uh contraanakiism pmic against the monarchism of the time various letters and sermons you can glean from them various excerpts that engage in the topic of justice >> by the way before that he brought up the example of somebody breaking down your house and then touching your woman and children that is amalc So if somebody comes and what do they do is attack the children the vulnerable ones and exploit them that's a malik. So the so not only are you supposed to fight them you are obligated to annihilate them >> just war and he developed it and the reason they came out is has to do with you know where who he was in in in this time and place of history where he lived. He was living around the time of the fall of Rome.
the barbarian invasions and dealing with the concept of early Christian pacifism.
All right. So essentially uh Augustine was dealing with what Edward Gibbon later accused Christianity of being responsible for namely the fall of the Roman Empire in his decline of the fall decline and fall of the Roman Empire.
Edward Gibbon. Um, as we know, one of his chief comments and thesis is that the Roman Empire ultimately fell because it adapted or adopted Christian pacifism which made it weak and therefore it just crumbled eventually before the barbarian.
>> My theory is that they wanted the Roman Empire to fall.
>> Germanic invasions.
So that was that that's Edward Gibbons argument which comes out uh you know 12300 years after Augustine. But it's clear that Augustine himself was thinking about these topics because again this is where these ideas of just war emanate and arise from him. All right. So what are the core ideas that can again be extrapolated from the writings of St. Augustine in the aforementioned texts?
Well, first of all, it's that war can be morally justified as opposed to strict pacifism, Quakerism. another another um anacronism that I just introduced. So he argued that Christians could serve as soul.
>> Interesting thing. Okay. So he's describing just war around the same time the Talmud was written. In the Talmud, there is a very very similar list of uh of causes that would justify war. And uh but later on another cause that is commanded war was added to the list and that is and I think more than anything uh when it comes to the crusades this is something that needs to be added in >> soldiers and that war is sometimes a tragic necessity to restrain evil. It's a lesser evil. All right? And I've spoken about this a lot of times uh you know in his writings. He's the one that first pointed out, you may have heard me talk about this, but he's the one that first pointed out that a lot of the just war, what we call now just war theory is implied in the New Testament. For example, the centurion who comes to Jesus, asks for a miracle to heal his uh ailing servant and Jesus complies and then Jesus doesn't do what he he habitually does after he performs a miracle for someone that is to say call on that person to repent. All right? So the natural thing after Jesus dealt with the centurion and obliging his desire and healing his servant would have been now go and repent quit the Roman army you have blood on your hands that wasn't said instead of anything Jesus used him as a model of faith and saying I found no man of greater no one of such faith in all of Israel about this Roman pagan okay so Augustine mentioned >> somehow I think the the the that the story is probably a bit distorted because he reads it as a Christian, but like I'm not going to I'm not going to look it up. Like I'm not going to go into there. I'm just making a comment.
You guys know what I like what I think.
mentions that and many other examples of well okay well if Jesus didn't call on him to uh quit the Roman army then Jesus does not think fighting in war as part of a state is inherently evil. Okay. So that's just one of the the the first points um which is that war can sometimes be justified on moral grounds namely to and and that therefore soldiers and centurions can be in the army and they're not necessarily sinning in that sense. The second idea that comes from uh Augustine and remember these these are not a list. This is just what can be um sort of ascertained from a reading a deep reading of Augustine's texts that I mentioned. The second and most probably important one that really comes out is just cause and this is really going to dominate much of what we're going to talk about just cause. Do you have just cause to go to war with someone?
So what is just cause? So this is why I think it's important, right? So a just cause I think that would be a commanded war. If you have a just war, it means that it's a commanded war. A just war, right? I like if there was a dis like if there isn't would it be an understanding like what it like maybe you need to separate the two, the just war and the commanded war because if you have a just cause it's probably a commanded war.
Um, lies destroy lives. Lots of lies have been spread about Jews and Christians. Christians often believe the lies spread about the Jews and Jews often believe the lies spread about Christians. Please read Sword and Schmita Shmita. I'll read one day. But honestly, like I don't need I don't um The thing is like Raymond Ibrahim is a good Christian, right? Well, I c I can I listen to him and I have my opinion.
So, it's not about spreading lies. I just saying what's in front of me. And also like it's it's um there are different Christians, different people, different way like I can tell you that there are Christians which I I I watch and listen to and I'm like okay, they get it. And then there are Christians I watch and listen to and it's like I don't I don't I don't get it. No.
cause often well primarily it's seen as self-defense or defense of others, protecting the innocent, protecting the weak. Okay? Redressing wrongs, trying to achieve justice. These would all be seen as just cause in keeping with just war theory. The other one that comes out from August, >> what is justice then?
>> What is the justice fighting for?
And also like at what scope you're supposed to go to a different place and fight for their woman and >> seen his right intention. And here remarkably enough love is often seen as one of the intentions of war. Okay. Um in fact I think at one point Augustine says it must be waged out of love. By the way, Augustine here, what it did is an manipulation of language that that justifies every war that forces Christianity on you >> to correct evil, to restore peace and to protect the common good. Okay. So, your intention is love. I'm protecting again like I mentioned weak the weak people.
So the cause is yeah protecting the innocent but it's motivated by the intention of love because uh and again >> because for Christians right what what are they thinking right like because if you don't believe in Jesus you're going to go to hell so out of love become Christian >> in mind when I use >> we love you so much we don't want you to go to hell >> the word love in this context before the premodern era I'm not in any way shape or form invoking sentiment or what is understood by love today kind of like you know meaningless emotionalism this is hardcore love Christian love muscular love which is to say caring >> what is caring is muscular love caring is muscular love are you caring is muscular love or you you want to start like a war on gender now caring caring caring protection Maybe you can say that's a muscular love. Caring is a muscular love.
>> Which is to say sacrificing oneself for the good of the other. That would be >> No, that's altruism. That's not love.
>> The classic definition of love uh in a Christian sense, which is willing of the good.
>> I mean, I'm not coming down. It's like it's not about that. I'm just I just think it's ridiculous. Care and protect.
You know what? It's it's it's neither.
It's gender neutral. It's not feminine and it's it's not masculine. It's human.
Human. It's so like a man. No, it's like love. Okay. So, you want your mother to not protect and care for you. That's like because it's masculine love, you know, caring and protection. It's masculine love, right? So women are not like your mom like you know there were like for example in the shooting in the shooting that happened in Bond Beach there was like a a teenager she saw like a ch like a baby a three-year-old like walking around and and their like her parents like were not there so she grabbed the baby and covered her up.
Guess what? There was also a a a young man in his 20s who also grabbed children and covered them like and and covered them with his body as well. So guess what? A te a a teenage girl, a young man and like a young I think it's like the girl was like pretty young, but like it's they're about to the same age. So teens like you a a a girl and a boy took a younger boy and a girl or whatever whatever saw children and and protected and cared for them.
It's it's why is it why is this masculine? How about human?
>> Nothing sentimental or cloying about it.
So that's why you can see in this context and for Augustine >> you know why it bothers me because it's the same thing he does with Jews. So what he did right now we calling it mascul he he is erasing pe he he he has a tendency for erasure. So he knows how to manipulate language to erase Jews and he manipulated language right now to erase woman femininity right because he care like oh not not like emotional love no masculine love oh oh that's that's erasure right it's like what do you mean women don't protect and care you know like women don't sacrifice their lives it's It's it's like it's it's this this it's this thing. It's right you build yourself on top on so of someone else.
It's like you're a Christian so you must you must step on the Jews. You are a man so you must step on woman.
That's what I think.
>> Love is one of the primary forms of intention behind just war. All right. To correct evil, restore peace, protect the common good. And also your intention should never be hatred, revenge, a desire to inflict cruelty or for power or gain, monetary gain, influence, power, etc. Okay. And here's a quote from Augustine.
The passion for inflicting harm, the cruel, >> you know what it's how dangerous it is.
this Augustinine. This is what creates what I would call um it's it's like it's a it's fake virtue, you know. It's like, oh, I do it out of love. There is nothing wrong for doing something out of vengeance. Vengeance and and all those emotions like all those negative emotions exist in us because because they are in in information channels that not must not be trampled on.
And Greg, Greg, sweetheart, here's the thing. Look inside your heart. I know can you I know that you probably can see how he erases Jews. So look in your heart and understand that he does the same with women.
Um and lies don't destroy lives. You make a good point about hell, justice, and love. Justice by George McDonald contains good definition of justice, love, and hell. Well, thank you. You really you really like uh bring taking like it's it's it's interesting. It's like every every comment is like read a book.
It's like an entire book need to be read to understand a concept.
But thank you for support. Um anyway, so here's like no it's it's okay to want vengeance. It's okay to be angry and it's also okay to fight for glory and fight for resources and fight and because here's what happens. you want people would find a way to lie about their intentions if it's perceived as not good. So instead of saying hey we want uh some loot they would say oh we do it to to bring justice and love and greatness to the world. No at least like you know no no it's okay to fight for something for resources. It's all right.
cruel thirst for vengeance, an unpacific and relentless spirit, the fever of revolt, the lust of power, and the like.
All these are rightly condemned in war.
Meaning, >> no. No. Why would it rightly be condemning war?
It's so it's so if somebody is a piece of crap, it's okay to want vengeance and want them to be dead. And no, and not only that, it's also like one of the things um I don't know if I brought it up here. I brought it up in my course.
So, one of the reasons that the Hamas people suffer way less from trauma, post-t trauma, because they believe that their their fight is justified, right?
Their feelings of vengeance are justified. If you go to war feeling that your feelings are not justified, you're gonna get trauma and you're gonna come home and you're gonna suffer and then you're gonna fight. Like Joe Kent and and and people like and Tulsi Gabbard and a lot of people like that, they went to war. They didn't understand that that like they gas lit they gas their they gas lit the hell out of their own feelings thinking, "Oh, it's not okay to be vengeful or angry when you fight."
And because they did that to themselves, they go ahead and what they do, they fight against their next generation going to war. Even if it's a just mandatory, commanded war. No. No. Don't do that. Don't.
>> Meaning if you do go to war, you should make sure those are not your intention.
Okay. Another one that comes out of Augustines is legitimate authority.
Okay. only public real authorities with with real authority which is given to them whether it's a king a pope or a president in the modern era it has the capacity to declare and wage a just war it can't just be any Joe blow okay again this is Augustine it's not me >> again can you imagine that kind of like mindset when you're getting a tactto you need like what do you mean what if like what about the personal then what about October 7th. Like people on the ground, should they have waited for someone to declare, "Oh, that's a just war." What the heck?
>> Um, and all of it should be geared towards peace, ironically. So, here's another quote. Peace should be the object of your desire from Augustine.
War should be waged only as a necessity in order that peace may be obtained. We do not seek peace in order to be at war, but we go to war that we may have peace.
This says the Berber from North Africa.
>> Um he also concedes that war is always tragic even a just war which is and this is all a reflection of sin and therefore it should all be undertaken with a sort of sorrow and compunction not enthusiasm or bravado. Killing in war still requires spiritual repentance and some interpret.
>> Yeah. That's how you lose wars. That's how you become like facing our lifetime like uh Chamberlain >> of Augustine's thought actually. And here's but here's now a a good because I was looking at some of his writings.
Here's a solid St. Augustine quote in the regards of just war. He writes, quote, "Now those who have waged war in obedience to the divine command or in conformity with his laws, God have represented in their persons the public justice or the wisdom of government, and in this capacity have put to death wicked men. Such persons have by no means violated the commandment, thou shalt not kill."
>> Right?
>> All right. And again we it bears to emphasize that the rendering which I think begins with uh King James.
>> I think when what happens here is that what happens is that Christian add too many words. If you remove a lot of the words of that kind of like everything that just happened right now just remove throw it away. Throw away like keep the minimum and when you keep the minimum you create a lot less openings for crap.
Thou shalt not kill from the ten commandments.
>> It's like you need to sometimes you have to kill that's life dot and that's like should have been the entire doctrine.
Everything else it creates psychological problems. Now people like Christians you can see the the the fight inside their brains because they cannot comprehend like no but we should not have vengeance.
Okay.
effing go to war when war is needed.
Stop thinking about it. Actually, don't think at all. Thinking is overrated >> is much more accurately rendered as thou shalt not murder. There's a whole different it's different. Murder is of course unjust. Killing is very generic.
It's just uh ending life. So even within the ten commandments, there's room to understand it as thou shalt not unjustly kill, meaning thou shalt not murder as opposed to kill. And of course, Augustine understood this. Okay, Augustine also touched on uh you know things like the conduct in war, you know, mercy toward the vanquished, protecting non-combatants if possible.
Um but he also really focused on why a war can be just then, you know, looking at the detailed rules during fighting.
Now, >> so that's Augustine. Now, Aquinus, St. Aquinus, and now he >> it's so hard like you know what it does to It's like oh it's like you need to be you need to go but you also need to do this and that and this like you know it's like make it clear make it like easier for a person to digest without having uh to split their brains into two and having to like a multi multipolar personality disorder in order to follow somebody's instructions on how to go to war. I mean I maybe I'm harsh but honestly it's like what I feel and it's kind of understand because this is like the thing um so lies destroy lives forgiveness unleashes joys. It brings peace. It washes the slate queen. It sets all the highest values of love in motion. George McDonald. Good for George McDonald. Good for him. So you know when you forgive when you understand or when you accept that's when you forgive and and it's like when you see things as they are. But you see like this doesn't help you with that. What if you forgive when you're not supposed to be forgiving? What if you forgive too easily and then you get screwed or don't judge according to reality?
No, like no, no, no. Forgiveness is nice. It's nice. It's nice in theory. In reality, you you can forgive when something is done.
>> Although that really systematizes and codifies just war theory. And he credits it credits it all to Augustine, his predecessor, by almost a millennium in his grand work, the Suma Theologia.
or the sum of all theology. Aquinus who lived between 1225 and 1274 like I said systematizes what Augustine said from all the various writings into a clear doctrine of just war theory and now it starts becoming much more formalizes formalized and he condensed it essentially to three essentual conditions. one legitimate authority. Okay, which means only proper rulers can declare war which we saw uh was one of the considerations.
>> Okay, so Trump is a proper ruler. One check >> of St. Augustine.
>> Okay, we got that.
>> So basically what uh Aquinus did is he took all those disparit writings of uh Augustine and now he really uh condensed it to three points. legitimate authority. Just cause again that's the big one. Okay, which again he also uh interpreted as >> just war which is unex like unexplainable >> typically defense against aggression or punishment of wrongdoing >> punishment of wrongdoing. The IRGC committed both 100%.
>> And the third one was again right intention which we looked at which the aim must be good.
The aim what? The aim must be good. Who is to like what do you mean the aim must be good?
Like you need to aim well so that like you you hit the target properly. Okay.
>> It must be to bring about something good. Peace, justice, uh protection of the innocent.
>> Well then attacking the IRGC commits all of that, right? It brings justice to those killers and it uh well the innocent needs a bit more protection, right? And stopping halfway. I think the the only the only thing I'm learning here is that proper Christians should be saying, "Hey, Trump, why did you leave when the the persons are still persecuted, especially the Christian ones?"
>> It should not be revenge or gain. Okay?
you should uh it should be to secure peace possibly to punish evildoers and to uplift the good.
>> All right. So those >> so basically the war on Iran like like answers all three >> that that's the the general history of how just war theory was articulated. It starts with Augustine and then it goes to Aquinus. But like I said all throughout you have different Christian theologians who put in their two cents and often times it's actually very interesting and telling. So here's one is Sidor of Seville. Um this man is not much later than Augustine. He lived between 560 and 636. And um you know he's he also gave a very precise definition of just war. And he wrote that a just war or to summarize a just war is one that is waged to avenge wrongs when a nation or state must be punished for refusing to make amends or for injuries to restore what it has unjustly taken.
Those are my words. Those I'm not reading you a quote, but that's how I basically paraphrase what he was saying.
Okay? And you can look into it. Look him up. Um Isidor of Sevil and what he thinks about just war. So compared to >> I mean that explains a lot about how Spain conducted war.
>> Augustine for example and like I said he's a near contemporary he's much more blunt and legalistic and his emphasis is on actual punishment and restitution. So war is justified if it corrects >> numbers. This is 2309 >> and this is now the final word on how Catholics should >> wait just so the actual what the Catholic Church says today. This is the final word and this is from the catechism of the Catholic Church. It has numbers. This is 2309.
>> It has numbers >> and this is now the final word on how Catholics believe the only way a war can be justified is actually as you're going to see a little more restrictive than the earlier interpretations um from Augustine to Aquinas and is is all right. So the first one and now this is quote these are actual quotes I'm reading to you from the catechism of the Catholic Church 2309. First one quote grave and certain damage the damage inflicted by the aggressor must be lasting grave and certain. In other words, the person you want to attack in a war, this person must truly be engaged in in causing grave, lasting and certain damage to your side or to the innocent side. All right. So again, this is very much similar to just cause. What what is the just cause? Well, that guy that I'm going to attack and go to war with is engaged in grave damage and violence.
Okay, it's last thing. It's grave and it's cert. That's number one. Number two, it has to be a last resort. Okay, so all other means, again I'm reading, this is a direct quote. All other means, diplomacy, sanctions, etc. must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective.
Number three, there has to be a serious prospect of success. There must be a reasonable chance of success, no futile wars. Now as you can see this is a new one relatively new this didn't emanate with Augustine certainly and the idea as I understand it is if Christians are trying to minimize damage and they certainly don't want to see people die um okay and just war is justifiable well you better be certain that you have a good chance of success because if you don't well you're going to cause even more deaths all right so for example um you know my enemy has a thousand man army and I have 10. All right. Well, even if the war is just I really >> So in that case like the Ukrainian war like Ukraine fighting against Russia is not justified according to that assessment here >> shouldn't attack because all I'm going to do >> which is which I find very interesting because like I didn't see the church talking about the effect that the European Union should stop supporting the the war in Ukraine. But I guess this is not the mainstream interpretation of going to war. Right?
>> So that's the idea behind that. Right?
And then the final one is number four, proportionality of the catechism of the Catholic Church. Quote, the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated.
Modern weapons make this very hard to satisfy. That's the actual quote.
>> Okay. Okay, >> I should add that um from the beginning, you know, from the times of Augustine when it was still rather abstract, but certainly by the time of uh Aquinas and even now, whatever conditions are posited, whether they're the three that I gave you with Aquinus, which basically were coalesed from Augustine, or whether it's the four from the modern church, there are always all four or all three have to be met. So for a just war to be just uh I just gave you these four from the catechism. All four would have to be met. You can't just have three out of four. Same with Aquinas the three cause intent and so forth. All of them had to have to be met. It can't just be uh one or >> Yeah. You know what I just thought? You know, like the pope like isn't so so the Christian the Christianity like the religion in America is not like because I just had a thought, right? Like and I think I had that thought like five times before but I forgot every time to mention that amazing and beautiful thought that I had with you all. So here's the thought, right? So the pope, right? Why is he not saying anything about the Iranian aggression? Oh, because they're Muslims. So they must be out of his, you know, jurisdiction, right? Is they like out of his scope?
But then I thought like, wait, wait. Thought about it really hard. The United States is not a Catholic country.
It is also exactly just just as much under his um judgment sphere as the IRG saints. So last time I checked there is a separation between church and state in the United States. That means that they don't in God we trust is the moto of America drawer. Exactly. The in God we trust that they the God would bring us dollars. Clearly it's not the Catholic church god. So so definitely like it's not like it's like you know if a Muslim person becomes the head of the caliphate. No I guess like the Muslims they don't just they just go ahead and kill it.
Okay. So, if if like like okay, let's say they one day they're going to choose a a a Christian man that grew in a Muslim country, right, to be the head of the church, the pope.
Do you think like they would go ahead and be like, "Oh, Al, like Albania, Algeria, you're not doing something the you're not doing things the Christian way.
Why are you so Why are you saying that to the United States? F off."
Um, lies destroy lives. Raymond believes it's right to fight a just war. He is expending what others believe. Justice is a chapter of an unspoken sermons. It does not take long to read. It's free online. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
I uh I'll make uh Ibrahim my rabbi if I'm impressed uh of um I don't know. I like what am I supposed to follow Raymond's path now? I don't like it's okay. Like he Raymond himself thinks like we shouldn't care what he thinks, right? So I don't care what he thinks.
Thank you. So I I get it. Like I get it.
Like he's great. He's great. He's great.
Right. He's great. Except like in the end he pissed me off. So this is why I'm like that. And honestly in the beginning he also pissed me off. And in the middle he added that masculine caring and care love. So that also kind of pissed me off. You say I'm a woman. I cannot control my emotionality. It's just the way women are. We're irrational emotional creatures like that, you know.
And just like Yeah.
Thank you though. Thank you for support again.
>> One or the other. And the third one for Aquinus is legitimate authority. Okay.
Um and then of course also while we're at it, the doctrine of just war has continued to develop amongst the Catholics or in the Catholic tradition.
So now there's also uh considerations about what happens during war and how Christians are to behave. So for example it's uh it's now known and recognized and acknowledged for it to be a just war. During the war non-combatants and surrender and soldiers who have surrendered must be respected and treated humanely. Okay? And you can't engage in wanting and discriminate destruction of cities or populations because this is a crime against God and man.
and um and and so on and so forth. So I can you can see that as as time progresses. So basically international law basically I don't think it the it has anything to do with the church >> reach the modern era >> and as war becomes not as necessary necessarily >> takes a break and the old days in the medieval era when when there was a a lot of cause >> oh the war today is not as necessary as it used to be right yeah interesting very interesting interesting saying >> or just war defensive war.
>> Well, of course, if you sit in the Vatican in the middle of Italy and you have a different country like that defends you from and it's like, you know, it's like by the time they reach the Vatican, you know, by the time they reach the Vatican, the whole world will be gone. So, obviously, like they don't feel like they're any worse today. So, I understand, right? like like for example ISIS like right so the ISIS didn't reach the Vatican did they oh actually they did they took over it and now the pope is representing ISIS actually I just remember it I I'm sorry I've made a mistake >> cause all right was there just cause to go and invade what is now called the Muslim world the Middle East the Holy Land specifically or not well what is just cause. We already tried to look at that. Well, just cause is to defend the weak, the innocent, uh, redress wrongs, >> and try to, you know, to write wrongs.
Uh, so was there that just cause?
Absolutely. Yes.
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> Uh, let's remember again, this is the part that it's interesting.
>> Raymond is so confident when he's defending the crusades. for some reason he's not so confident when he talks about politics today. Which I think is very cowardly and he's like, "Oh, no. I don't want to bring my own opinion. I want to say what the church thinks." No, I think you're a coward.
>> Interesting that the last question >> as we look at it now is the same one that's going to keep coming up. This is really, in other words, I've really looked at a lot of points and I made a lot of points about what just war theory is. really the most important to me is just cause and you'll see that is the one where there's always going to be some debate about. So was there just cause again as the former question pointed out a lot of let's say Christians and Catholics are embarrassed of the crusade. So that's why >> okay you know what you know what before we and we we get we hear his take on uh whether Iran or not is a justified war I want to bring um a little bit of um another interesting uh thing that I think should be shared that mans here uh oh yeah I already see attacks ships in her moose breaking clashes erupting straight of her moose What?
Say what?
So anyway, but before we do that, let's let's say let's let's think more Christian.
Let's think more Christian. And for that, I need to go to Mansour channel and he brought a person here.
I think it was a live Iran underground church.
There we go.
So let me share this uh and we are live. Welcome back ladies.
I'm going to skip ahead.
>> Tonight's guests have lived through this reality. This is not a theory. This is not politics. This is faith under pressure, courage under threat, and the truth from inside Iran. My guest today, Mr. Ali, you might have seen him in one of the viral videos that he made when he was inside Iran addressing President Donald Trump moments before the massacre started of his own people. After that video, he basically made a death sentence on his life and he had to flee the country and right now he's hiding uh seeking asylum as he is suffering from the constant threats from the IRGC and their goons around the region who want to capture him and kill him simply for being a Christian simply for actually exposing that regime. I'm going to >> Did you hear what he just said? No, there's going to be more. You guys want to hear a little bit more just, you know, to to to make sure like the the point is made, right? I just wanted to make a point, right? What it's like to be like what uh Christians Christian what happens to Christians, right? So don't forget Christians were in the Middle East before Muslims were there, right? And this um and Raymond loves loves uh talking about how justified the crusades were. Right. Right. Good. Now, don't worry. I'm not just saying something for nothing because I remember him in the end. Um one second. So, I want to here I'm going to I'm just looking for exactly where it's at. So, just to to to hammer a point in before I go back to Raymond 100% I know Islam as a religion of Satan.
>> Wow. I'm having someone here leaving a comment on my Instagram as he's watching us live. Raz10001. He say many Christians in Iran in order to protect their lives introduce themselves as Shia Muslims. I >> tell you what, the Jews in Syria had to do the same as Sunna Muslims. They had to pretend to be Muslims. Jews as well under Islam.
>> Someone is saying, "I've been following your journey for months, Ali. I'm so relieved you are all right." Well, stay safe.
>> Um, someone is adding also, "Many Iranians are executed simply for possessing a Bible." Yeah, >> just just as easy as you can see.
>> And he's saying IRGC wants to execute me himself because he's having a Hamsa tattoo. You know the Hamsa the >> Yeah.
>> and called him Satanist.
I think they came to you before they knew you were a Christian. They told you that you uh should cut your hair, right?
They were >> Absolutely. They have big problems about my hair. They they just closed my >> Okay. Okay. So, but so having a Bible in Iran would get you executed. Now, so you're going to say, "But there are Christian, right? There are Armenians."
So guess what? If you have a Bible in a language that is not associated with a Christian group, let's say like Armenian, you're dead. You're a gunner.
Easy. Easy peasy, right? Lovely. Nice, huh? All right. So let's go back uh to and talk about a just war is Iran uh yeah let's talk about that let's talk and I also I think it's it's in the end where he summarizes and says everything so >> war now well was there just cause for the crusades and yes emphatically probably more so than most wars throughout history that and the fact that we don't know that just shows you that there's been some real effort to hide that up. Okay. So, what was happening before the first crusade? Well, for starters, the Muslims conquered a vast majority or a vast swaith of Christian territory. And I've given that number.
Sometimes I say 2/3, sometimes I say 75%. Usually what I'm doing is I'm conflating one thing. So in the original in the first century you know from you know 632 from the death of Muhammad to 7:32 the battle of Puier tours Muslims at least conquered twothirds of what was then a Christian world sometimes I say threequarters because I'm adding in what came later and is still Muslim which is Asia Minor Turkey but if you look at the >> you are quick to judge and miss you've lost my support I've watched the entire video I didn't come here it's not the first and reaction. I watched the entire thing. That's why I'm judging.
But thank you for supporting you while you losing my while going away. You know, if you don't want to hear another alternative to a person that you admire, I think that you uh I'm sorry, but like Raymond is not a god. So, I'm sorry for smashing your idol.
Oh, sorry.
>> Look at the totality what was conquered for a while which would have been uh you know North Africa, the Middle East which still conquered and Turkey which is still conquered but also Spain, portions of France, all the Mediterranean and all the Balkans. Well, I mean they conquered at one point at least 70 maybe 80% actually of the Christian world. So you can take a map and figure it out and maybe add the populations up depending on how one judges size. Are we talking about geographical extent or population?
But anyway, my point is that yeah, that was part of the just reasoning. Muslims had conquered what was Christian territory. Number one. So so it's just to recover it. Number two, the Muslims were then before the first crusade and up until the first crusade engaged in atrocities against Christians. Whether it was the indigenous Christians living uh in the Holy Land, Syrians, Assyrians, um Armenians, Georgians f, you know, further up north, Greeks uh in Asia Minor and so forth. Uh yeah, they were they were suppressing them, killing them, abusing them. They were also doing the same thing to the pilgrims, European pilgrims who travel to the holy land for pilgrimage. They would be attacked, mauled, raped, killed, and financially exploited. So, was there just cause for that?
Absolutely. That was there was just cause for that, too. And of course, the Muslims were systematically destroying churches, burning them, uh, turning them into staples for their horses.
>> Yeah. Like they do now.
So I'm just gonna get ahead.
>> My time in exile comes to an uh explanations and the requirements for a war to be just according to historic Christian that is to say modern day Catholic teaching. And um you know it all comes down to as I expected you know the question of cause. So everything when it comes to the Iran war I think fits the just criteria. You have a you have a a leader a formal leader who's behind it. Um and what's left is really the cause and the intention. Right? So people the cynics will tell you oh the intention is not about protecting whoever or writing a justice. It's about you know stealing their oil. That's an argument being made. for example, um which I'm not saying is the case. Uh and the cause is even the bigger one because people will say uh we went and saw the whole point is is it an imminent threat and can you engage in preventative warfare um in order to uh as a way to uh is preventative warfare does that fit just just war theory? Okay. And that's the question. That's really what it comes down to. A lot of it seems that official Catholicdom says no. And but of course there are Catholic voices that say yes.
And as I pointed out, you know, the addition of nuclear weapons is a is an interesting factor that I do think changes up the entire calculus of what is and what is not just war theory.
And with that, my friends, I thank you for your time and attention and your company.
So basically like he brings all the information to say oh is it just is it not just which I understand it's fine it's great but the thing is like throughout um throughout the the video he could have there is one thing that bothered me specifically um that he said one I don't know why.
Okay. So 1:45 that's where it is I think. Okay. It's kind of hard. There is a lot of many hours here.
>> News the for example in the case of the conquest of the Americas some who said this is not at all a just war others who rationalize and said it was.
And we also saw the Crusades that in my opinion they definitely were just wars.
They certainly fit all the criteria. So what about Iran and what's happening today? Going back full circle to Trump and the Pope, President and Pope, you know who's right. All right. Well, again, I'm trying to tell you what's being said. This isn't about what I think uh or any particular Christian.
We're looking at the concept of just war. So, having researched it, here's what I've come across.
The overwhelming majority of certainly official Catholic voices in keeping with the Pope are arguing that the Iran war is unjust. Okay? It does not fit the criteria. One of the chief voices among them is Cardinal Robert McElroy, Archbishop of >> So here is what bothers me here specifically especially right so Raymond here there is information that is critical for the audience to hear and as somebody that comes from the Orthodox church. So there is a one thing that is extremely important to know. For example, I can tell that for in Georgia all the orthodox all the papy like or the orthodox equivalent of that that were not happy with the Russian narrative uh they are out of the church.
All right? So everybody who would align with a certain narrative stay in the church.
So here's the thing. Even most even most Catholics say, "Oh, this is what we believe in." I've heard also that Catholics also get pushed out of churches when they don't believe in a certain narrative that is now the main narrative that is the right narrative, right? So for me, what bothered me is like Raymond here should have been like, you know, here's what sometimes happens.
Here's what happens. and like and like uh you know especially like if he comes from the east right it's it's like you need to know like when there is a church like a church leader in certain places when there is a certain political situation those who read uh the scripture or their or give their explanation of what's going on they sometimes lose their position in a church because the world is political like that and I really wished he would take a moment and say that because the thing that the way he speaks, the way he present things is that every person who comes and watches him comes out with the same opinion he already uh started with. Right? So the way he talks, the way he describes, the way he explains is that whatever opinion you had, you're going to exit with the same one.
And I don't like it. I don't like it.
I'm not going to lie. I don't think I think it's nice and fun and cute. Okay, fine. But I don't love it at all.
ship of Washington DC and I saw one of his articles and >> and the reason I say that is because don't forget but that even when you present someone else's opinion or writings you always add your own interpretation into the way you understand those things and how they were written and that means you chose a certain thing.
He's been pretty active about this and he explicitly applies the aforementioned catechism criteria which like I said is a lot stricter than the more general principles articulated by Aquinus following Augustine and he has said he's concluded that there is no just cause because Iran was not launching an actual or imminent attack.
So you see, we're going back to the concept of cause and always that's that's I think the strongest and most important decisive factor in determining if a war is just according to Christian principles. Okay, what's what's the cause? And he's arguing that there is no proper cause. There's no just cause because Iran was not launching an actual or imminent attack. Okay. Therefore, the the war fails. the just war theory conditions. He's even called it quote not morally legitimate. Okay. And the key line of reasoning with him and all the other Catholics that I've seen, including, of course, the Pope, Pope Leo, is that Catholic teaching does not allow war to prevent a hypothetical future threat. As we know, of course, much of this war is to prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons. That's how it's framed. And so that is considered not morally uh legitimate as a condition, as a cause, because it's not it's not, you know, Iran's attacking you now.
>> But isn't it weird, right? If you love the crusaders so much and the church and people with the Bible get hanged in your own, shouldn't that be mentioned somewhere somehow? If like it's so it's like you go around like this is why it bothers me so much. Raymond goes around the world and advocates for the crusades and forgets to mention all the like the Christian and and and and I don't know like if you go that's your cause right like everywhere he goes he talks about the crusades and he justifies it but now now right now there are Christians suffering and instead of being like hey here is a chance to repent or whatever or do the right thing again I don't know something >> now this is a preventative thing and basically what they're saying is preventative war is not just all right um >> like to me it's it's like you know how uh how I brought last time I brought um Jesus Enrique something right the guy with a nice accent uh talking that about the pope the way he uh that he used to have a Twitter account before he became a pope and that he deleted and and all he did was to repost somebody someone like whatever other he never wrote anything by himself he just reposted what others say this is what I feel right now it's like reposting >> and that this again he directly rejects the war under just war criteria of quote imminent threats and proportionality and like I said this theme is most of them so the US Catholic bishops Catholic peace ethicists and and all these other groups um not one particular group but a consistent sort of episcopal interpretation is that the war fails just cause for the same reason that the war a lot of them are saying the war fails as a last resort. So I guess they're saying uh that you know diplomacy and sanctions have not been exhausted and um that the war also risks extreme disproportionality and a lot of them explicitly argue that the Iran strikes do not meet the catechism threshold for defense of war which I mentioned particularly in the context of it's not an im there is no threat of an imminent attack. Okay, it's again preventative. This is really the key point that >> so I want like okay so why it bothers me right so imagine Raymond Ibrahim is now in a in an era and he is given information about Islam and Christianity the world but now instead of him being on YouTube he is actually um a a a traveler that tells stories from village to village to village and what he does is instead and and they ask him okay what do we do about like fighting and should we go and a crusade is that an option? And what he would do he would start telling the people like here are all the criteria for a just war. Uh and then would leave them to argue and you this is a person that that fights for the for the justification of the crusade war and he cannot and he cannot just like be the person who okay you you fight so much for the crusade. So if you were at the time of the crusade, you would be the one of the voices that would confuse confuse the um the audience the most, right?
It's like it's here's your chance, right? Here's the chance. This is what you are advocating for. This is what like talk about like the the the Bible like what happens to Christians in Iran.
Like bring it up, you know? It's it's like it it's not your opinion, right?
But you don't need it to be your opinion. Like it's you don't you can present someone else's doctrine and the just word thing and the entire thing and just like throw a sentence here and there just you know for a good measure >> point that they all argue about. This is like I told you when it comes to just war the most important consideration tends to be the cause. Do you have a just cause? And the the big debate now is >> or or or even better, right, is like, you know, I uh the cause that Trump chose, right, we can talk about it a lot, but maybe like but here's the thing, right? If one of the causes is to allow religious, right, to to to save Christians in Iran from persecution. If we just maybe like if we somehow maybe this is what the church should be advocating for, right? Maybe this is the point is like just a suggestion, you know, because this is the thing, right? It's like you believe in something like throw it out there just say like I don't know maybe if it was like clearly stated, you know, it's like in a hypothetical, right? The the cause is super like what if like it would have been clearly stated like the Christian situation preventative war just historically it never happened >> and instead is like like I I don't know how many times I said in the channel right the the the number one way to manipulate people is by taking their attention from one thing to another so notice that like the attention where does he bring your attention to mostly and I watch the entire thing most of the time he brings your attention into preventative war and whether they're going to get nukes or not and It's kind like you know this is where it takes your attention and then you know why because this is where people can be like oh they were close or they were not close was it really imminent was it really preventative like this is where this is exactly the point which is the weakest one which people like arguing and wasting time about how about right you say hey uh you you like in Iran and as a Christian like this is what the crusades were about wasn't it It's like I'm I'm sorry, but like the Crusades, they they went out of their kingdoms. It means it wasn't in the on their border when they went out and walked all the way to the whole war. It wasn't even the same domination of Christianity that went on the Crusades, right? So maybe something somewhere say something.
Let's see what's going on.
Sorry. Here.
I want to see this.
>> Yeah. Yeah. in case you couldn't uh read uh the small back to >> subtitles of course saying that the >> the Israeli defense forces are on standby and of course everything is ready to go and the goals for Israel has not changed and that is to bring down the regime in Iran.
Now on that point the United States military continue to mobilize their troops. This ceasefire was not really a ceasefire for peaceful purposes. It was to simply regroup, re rally the troops and uh get some of them to rest for a little bit, but also redeployment of the others. The USS Gerald R. Ford is now in the theater, the theater of war. We now have uh the aircraft carrier that is now in the Red Sea >> uh operating. Over the last few days, everybody was waiting for this to arrive. They are now conducting operations in the Red Sea in support of the United States Central Command or Sentcom. Now, Thursday, about a couple of days ago, USS Gerald R. Ford hit 296 days at sea, which is a record for the longest deployment the aircraft carrier has had since the Cold War. Now, we know and I'm going to show you more evidence of the deployment of the US military troops towards Iran over the last few hours. But the most important thing that we now have is the breaking news that just came minutes before we came live to talk to you guys. and that is from the president of the United States uh who has now given a new window a deadline by the end of tonight.
Now we've seen the pattern in June 2025 the so-called 12-day war. We didn't see any military action until President Trump created a window. Not a deadline for deal, not a deadline for negotiations. the window the final deadline volume ultimatum and once that was reached we saw the attacks we saw the same thing in uh February March February when the US president said well this is the final window and now he came earlier on and he said by the end of today tonight he will know whether there is any chance of a deal with the Islamic Republic or not What that means? We've seen this game before. Now, Wednesday is tech.
>> Well, you know what? I feel like most of the time when I watch Tulsi that it could have been a note. It it doesn't need to be a 30 minute video. It could have been a note.
Look, check it out. Here is a per here is a a permanent Christian Lebanese activist. 90% of Lebanese were qu were quietly praying there wouldn't be a ceasefire so they could get rid of how >> many of >> Oh my god that was screaming you here you go how about them talk about the Lebanese Christians that are suffering I mean I don't know maybe he did maybe he brought it up but like I don't know you know Some things need to be said again and again again. Like if somebody like me watches your one video of yours and then gets confused about what your It says you lost.
Can you guys hear it? Because it said it says there is a a browser lost the connection.
Yeah, there is no sound. Okay.
I'm going to reload it.
I want to hear I want to I'm just checking what's going on in this world, you know.
>> Day of the ceasefire. Despite the fake news and rumors that came out over the last few days, that deadline has not been extended so far. And technically on Monday, we were supposed to be having negotiations with the Islamic Republic. I've not confirmed that. And President Trump has now said, "I will decide by the end of tonight." The deputy foreign minister of the Islamic Republic say Katib Zad responded by saying that President Trump talks too much. Apparently >> President Trump said that if there is no agreement on Wednesday, there will be a return to the military action. Then uh let's President Trump talk. He talks too much. He said contradictory things within the same statement. This cannot be prevented. I don't know what exactly he meant. The American people must decide about him. If his statements are lined and if they are going with international law, then we will continue our defense.
Now this is fascinating because uh obviously this is propaganda right any statement from any politician is controlled right even >> anyway I want to say something like I don't understand what's going on it's too complex for me right now but I just saw something super entertaining so I want to share it with you like I I say that and it's like what >> let's go hire three accounting firms you pick one I pick one and let's get a third party that we both agree on maybe like a KPMG, PWC and and BKD hypothetically, some of the biggest firms you probably recognize. You have money, you've done well for yourself.
Let's have them do audited financials on me, my wife, and you and your wife, and report back to see if I've ever gotten paid from Israel and report back to see if you've ever gotten paid from Qatar or Pakistan or any of these guys. All the businesses, all the LLC's, all the accounts, you know how this kind of works. They can kind of figure that out.
And let's be honest with the audience.
Let's be honest with the audience. If you're open to it, I'm available. We'll have >> That is so awesome. Oh my god, I need to watch it again. It's just so satisfying >> to spend a half a million dollars, something like that, cuz it's going to take a few weeks for them to do it. I am fully open to the idea if you are. And by the way, I know this may make you feel uncomfortable. You don't have to accept this offer, but I'm telling you, I'm comfortable if you want to do it.
You don't have to do it cuz it's a little bit private. So, I'm sure you're going to come out and say, "How dare he want to look at my wife's bank accounts and all this other stuff?" Because some people may say, "Well, they can pay your wife and not through you." And I get that as well. And that's why I want to be a little bit transparent with you.
I've tried many times to build a relationship with you. It's been challenging. Uh, that was so amusing. I love it so so much. By the way, like I don't know why he would want to do that. Like because the the moment like because Tucker Carlson is going to lie. Like whatever you show him, they're going to lie.
Like you can show whatever you want.
It's going they're like Tucker Carson.
Oh, I saw it. I saw it. Actually, it does like you know they mix things up.
And besides, we know he got paid like he had to sign up so far because he got paid by foreign by foreign governments to get interviewed. So we know he got paid by foreigners already. There's >> Let's go hire three accounting firms.
You pick one. I pick >> But it's off. But it's it's amusing. I don't I thought it's so amazing.
I would like so much. How do What sisfire? Is there still a cis fire?
Oh, we're going down. Okay. This is random crap. So much random stuff.
Let's see what's in for you.
Oh, Saudi, Egypt, Somalia, Sudan, Libya, Bangladesh, Algeria, the Palestinian Authority, Turkey, and Indonesia. They all had an written statement a a like they wrote a written statement together that had that had condemned Israel's decision to have a diplomatic um a diplomatic presence in Somaliand and they said it's like they are it is hurting Somalia's sovereignty and border integrity of Somalia.
And he said like, "Oh, did you notice who didn't sign?"
Yeah, the UAE.
The UAE was like, "Somali land." Woohoo.
That's fun.
Egypt has issued a warning over what is describes as free concession being offered to by Lebanon to Israel, expressing clear surprise at the direction of the negotiations. For years I've heard that Egypt is among the most deceitful unreliable he is Egyptian unreliable and and he was supposed to come to my channel but unfortunately like he has he's got some he's it's going to come it's going to come he he he's he's been in my channel before but he's going to he will be in the future too. Uh at the time when President Trump's administration is pushing to expand peace between Israel and its neighbor, Egypt appears to be actively undermining these efforts. If Cairo had a genuine concerns, it could have addressed them privately with the Belgian officials. Instead, it is chosen. Yeah. Well, of course.
Oh, I love that. AD after deception BC before conspiracy.
Amazing.
All right.
This is interesting.
Israel will not Well, anyway, so the great Israel project now expands officially and if it's if the El Jazzer of Israel, okay, they're not the eler is channel 13, but channel 12 is like the left wing channel. So if the left wing channel like you know the the woke uh Catholic aligned channel said that it means like that's it. We have a consensus and uh the the Greater Israel project is now on its way and we're going to get take over everything.
Woohoo. I'm just joking. But at least protect the DS, I guess. Hopefully.
Okay. So much random crap.
I'm just wondering if they're actually calling on channel 16 in Persian Gulf and Omani. This is Iranian Stephan calling on channel 16. Straight of is still closed. We will open it by the order of our leader Imm by the tweets of some idiot. Oh, >> if you want to cut through the >> Now, that is a cause for a just war.
That that I think that is a cause for a just war.
>> You must ask permission from Iranian separ.
All vessels that have a connection with our enemies will be targeted if they try to pass the straight of out in Persian Gulf and Oman Sea. This is Iranian calling on channel 16 straight up.
>> Is that real?
Is that real?
Is that Is that Is that real? I'm I'm dying. Is it AI? This is so funny.
How do I know if it's real? You guys tell me if it's real. Cuz if it's real, it's hilarious. If it's not real, it's still hilarious. But let's but let's say like chaos energy.
Okay.
Somebody Yeah.
Dumb luck is the worst. I agree with that.
F. Ah. By the way, here is a So, this is this long young lady long time ago talked about rules of war. Can you imagine? We have a new microphone.
Thanks to Noah, one of the fans here who sent me so cute. Who is this girl?
>> Because they only found it in the beginning of the 20th.
Where does it >> um Oh my god. What?
>> Be honest. Like it's those those >> when it comes to those kind of things that you can see like sometimes it's like >> you see how young I was like electricity like and lights weren't invented yet.
You're quoting the Muslim sources, not Jewish sources. Really, that's what I feel about like look at that. Look at me.
>> So, it's it's a it's a whole thing. It's very complicated. Like, it's a whole like there there is reality and there is also the way you read the in Judaism. Is there an idea of jihad? Oh, I don't know. What did I say?
H go watch it. It's it's a for some entertainment. Juda Judaism versus Islam laws of war. That's how it's called.
It's live.
So it's it's been a while. It's been a long time ago as you can see like a young and cute and like oh look how look how young I used to be.
So cute.
Okay.
Think I'm going to wrap up. It's time to go to sleep.
I just I'm trying to figure out what's going on in Iran. Are we back at what's going on? What's happening, you guys?
What's happening?
I don't understand what's happening.
Nobody's explaining things to me properly like a slow slow to understand person.
Oh.
Okay, you guys. You guys. Okay, you guys. Thank you so much for being here.
Like, comment, subscribe. Go buy me coffee if you want to see me again.
I'm not coming live again unless I get in more coffees. That's what my decision is. Terrorism is the only language that works around this around here. Though you guys have been very I want to say she thank you guys who sent me last night. Uh and uh Sheh especially Sheh Jake and Steven and Charles thank you all for purchasing books last time. Anyway, without books, I know I know go live. That's it. That's it.
The only terrorism works around here cuz you guys have no idea how much work I put into this. So, please help. Also, support this channel by sharing. And don't forget to smash the like button.
It's 100%. Sorry. Thank you so much.
Good night. Yes, a burger. A burger, not coffee. I mean, it's I I I say it's books there. So, books are too good. and and and maybe I use them to buy manga and light novels, but it counts, right?
It's books as far as I'm concerned. So, books are books, right? So, good night everybody.
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