Jay Dyer vs Richard Spencer Debate Evolutionary Morality & Nietzsche’s Genealogy of Morals

追加: 2026-05-15

[00:00:00]on the what you explained in this long uh idea of the reptilian brain and and the rise of morality and you would say that we have a kind of duty maybe I think in some sense to the white race.

[00:00:16]Is it possible on your perspective that that could evolve to not be true in the future?

[00:00:24]I Uh yes and no. I mean theoretically yes.

[00:00:29]Uh it could evolve. We we could through terrible practices we could just breed an entire planet of raceless, historyless, loveless sociopaths or or just the absolute silly guilt-ridden SJWs. Yes, theoretically we we could do that, but I think practically speaking I don't think we could do that. Um because as I've you know as I've stated before, um love of a people is evolutionarily advantageous. People who can work as a group, who can have a sense of their selves, a sense of being on a team are going to win.

[00:01:07]And so practically speaking no. Uh I think a a planet of individuals would would could never exist. And in in that sense of cohesion religion certainly plays a a huge part.

[00:01:19]Okay, if we rely on the idea that evolutionary biology is the explanation for morals and these kinds of thing. I mean, we see a lot of things in nature that aren't necessarily moral. I mean, we see predatory behavior. We see we see the weak being trampled by by the strong. Um and you you said earlier that if if we have a totally psychopathic society, it doesn't seem to cohere. I would argue that we actually do see the rise of psychopathy in certain oligarchic families or with certain Sure. uh rival religious groups or something like that. And they will actually degrade uh cultures. They will degrade societies through social engineering. We're watching this now with the Fortune 100 promoting social justice warriors and everywhere. Uh and so my criticism again is that if if we believe that this is all merely evolutionary process, then we don't really have have a basis to oppose it because whatever happens is just evolutionary process. It's just It's just the phenomena happening. It's just happening. It's just the tragedy of life. I mean I mean why fight for the people? Why fight for your existence? What That That's not That's not quite what I'm saying. Um I I I You're You're raising some very interesting points and and I think in terms of this, you know, global elite and so on being being sociopathic and so on. Uh I I I Yes, I I think that's an an accurate uh description. Uh but I I You're leaving will out of it in the sense that um we as humans we have reached a a a evolutionary singularity. We we I I agree. I as I've stated, you know, you know, morality is is advantageous. No no question. Um but the the fact is we don't want a world like that and we are going to have to take responsibility. And that doesn't necessarily mean rationalizing a theology or so on. It It means willing it. And And it means forcing it to happen at some point. And we can come up with a rational justification for it afterwards. And I'll speak about this in somewhat abstract terms, but I think uh recognize what I'm saying. Uh but yeah, and the other thing that I that I that I've said I don't I don't want to just accept the world as it is. Uh there's no question. I I'm not just a evolutionary thinker who says, "Oh, this is where we are right now. This This is just the outcome of amoral, you know, evolution. This is where we are. No, I want a different world. Uh and and there there certainly needs to be will in it.

[00:04:00]We need to take responsibility for the world that we want. And the the world will will make sense when we force it to make sense.

[00:04:10]The I mean, would would that require means like may maybe at one point we should promote uh like pedophilia in another culture.

[00:04:19]I mean, do you see what I'm saying? I mean No, I mean I I get I get what you're saying, but I mean I'm not I'm not that awful. I mean No, I'm not saying you are doing that or believe that. I'm saying that it seems like that kind of a position if we don't believe that there are moral limits >> there are pe- I I think there are certain people, uh tribes if you will, that that actually seek to promote absolute degeneracy in rival tribe and rival bands. And we as as white people we don't we don't do that because it's just it's just sick.

[00:04:52]I I I could I don't I don't want to like promote total [clears throat] absolute degeneracy among the Han Chinese or I know I know you weren't saying that. But the fact is um in order to face off against these people who do promote degeneracy, um we might have to uh call upon a certain fighting spirit. We might have to become a monster in a way in order to kill this monster. And um that that is again, you know, a a a tragedy of our existence in the sense that civilized ordered societies are ultimately based uh on ultimately based on violence. They're ultimately based on someone who's willing to establish an order. And on top of that, you know, violent foundation, there can be beauty and goodness and morality. But we we might have to take responsibility for that and and and recognize uh the situation we're in.

[00:05:52]You're right, but I guess I'm still just not understanding how if if we think that that there's not moral absolutes, if we adopt that position and we we believe in this kind of grand mythology that evolutionary biology explains all of this, why we are beholden to any of these things. I mean, ultimately it might be something like, well, we should survive as a people. We need to But why? There's not really any reason to prefer survival to suicide. It's really just Yeah, I mean, I if if I think we actually both agree on this that so much of the of modern Christianity's are debased. They aren't supporting a civilization in the way that they could or have.

[00:06:36]Um but if we can create a a positive Christianity in the sense that someone says, "The white race must survive in order for this universal truth to remain in the world, that we that we are the bearers of this greatness."

[00:06:56]Uh then I I would certainly support this religion.

[00:07:00]Um but I I'm saying from a from an analytic perspective, um you know, again, I I guess you could call me a kind of nihilist in the sense I'm not an active nihilist or a passive nihilist, but I may I'm a I am speaking a a tragic and dark truth, which is that for the world to make sense, for the world to be beautiful, we might have to force it to be that way.

[00:07:24]And if there is a motivating illusion that for the white race to survive we we the white race must survive to maintain um the the mission of Christ and and the the greatness of the church, if that is a motivating illusion, then I I would support it.

[00:07:44]All right, Jay. Do you have a response for that?

[00:07:47]Um I I mean I've got a a lot of other notes and stuff, but not on that specific point, no. All right, why why don't we move on? There was some other things that Richard said. I know you were you you were kind of looking up that you wanted to respond to.

[00:07:59]Um you there's a bizarre kind of reliance on Nietzsche who was very very critical of science.

[00:08:10]Um and especially scientism.

[00:08:13]Yeah.

[00:08:13]>> And I think we've seen in many cases science being politicized. I don't know if you would agree with the idea of big science or the idea that that science is in many many senses controlled especially at the university level to not allow for things like discussion of race. I mean that's true.

[00:08:30]Obviously, yeah. So, why the um why do you not since you have a a lot of skepticism for things like religion, why is there not a skepticism for something like grand narratives in terms of evolutionary biology?

[00:08:47]>> I'm I'm I'm skeptical of that, too. Um I I I agree that there are science I mean look, just because I'm skeptical of science doesn't mean that I I I think that science can't offer us a a vision into truth and a vision of ourselves.

[00:09:03]Right.

[00:09:03]>> Um no, I I I agree with what you were talking about in terms of big science. I I also um agree with the kind of Kuhnian understanding of the paradigms of science in the sense that um it's it's not so much that science science doesn't just accumulate data in this linear progression towards the truth. That it actually goes in twists and turns. And so there there are paradigms or revolutions, you could say, in in the science where after Copernicus science was on a totally different footing.

[00:09:32]After Darwin, there was a new paradigm.

[00:09:33]There's going to be another paradigm after Darwin.

[00:09:36]Um you know, Newton actually created a paradigm that is arguably, um, you know, superseded by the, you know, Einsteinian paradigm. But that doesn't mean that that that Newton wasn't giving us this profound glimpse at the truth. Um, you know, again, I I I think that, you know, we can only grasp truth through a perspective. We can only glimpse it, uh, here and there. And even though I am skeptical of science, and I'm just saying this, uh, that that doesn't mean that it's invaluable or or that it doesn't have something to offer us. Well, I guess what I was asking was specifically about the evolutionary model as an explanation for morals and uh, religion that seems to be fundamental to your thesis and and why you have the worldview that you do. And I'm asking if if there is this skepticism for a lot of things, especially as a person alt-right who's had to deal with uh, establishment media, um, other people who have had to deal with establishment academia and had to leave because of of not being PC, that we start to see that there's a kind of uh, orthodoxy uh, for the dark side, so to speak, in all of these spheres of life in a way.

[00:10:44]>> I I don't disagree with that. So, is it Are you skeptical of morality? Like, the the way that I would look at morality as well and and and even Christian morality, particularly Judaic-Christian morality, uh, as as also being a kind of weapon.

[00:10:59]Um, I mean, one of one of the the insights of the genealogy of morals, which is is, you know, maybe even uh, Nietzsche's greatest uh, work. It's definitely a good starting point for anyone interested in this, uh, is that there is this earlier conception of good and bad. And uh, bad is effectively weak. Bad is sick. Bad is degenerate. Bad is is is gross. Good means that it brings us power. You know, there's there's there's and and and that don't think of that in some awful way, of you know, you know, Machiavellian way. Think of, you know, in the sense of like the family is good, you know, because it you know, this is how this is who we are, this is how we survive.

[00:11:39]Being powerful, being move you know, generating, this is good. Um, and that there was this the this the major revolution of Judaism was to flip that on their masters, people who dominated them. As you as you say, Romans were able to crush the Jews, crush their temples, literally and figuratively.

[00:11:59]Uh, they were the ruling cast over these people. Uh, we no longer are. Um, the and the this was in Nietzsche's view a moral revolution in the sense that Jews got it in the heads of their their masters that actually being good is being meek. Being good is being weak.

[00:12:21]Being good is being an impoverished a nothing. Uh, and actually being bad, that's being strong. Being evil is being strong. Um, and so that morality itself is will to power. Morality can be used as a weapon. And so much of what is directed against I the identitarian idea or or nationalism or so on is moral. I I would say before all of these things that we face like getting deplatformed or PC or whatever, it we face it on the moral plane first. So it's it's not just that Richard Spencer is factually inaccurate or Richard Spencer is dumb.

[00:12:58]It's Richard Spencer is evil. Richard Spencer it's it's even if he's right, he's still evil. And and so morality in this way can be a weapon used against us. And and I think so many of the the the fundamental reasons why white people aren't dominating the entire planet as as we certainly can is because of this black cloud that has been hanging over us. This notion that our history is bad.

[00:13:25]That that when we were in power, that was just awful and immoral and and and and so on. And so really we we need to be skeptical of morality. We we need to have a consciousness of morality and and to start reforming morality willfully that that is that is life-affirming and that is race-affirming.