The SLS Core Stage is assembled in New Orleans and transported to Kennedy Space Center via the Pegasus barge, where it undergoes a two-crane breakover operation to rotate from horizontal to vertical position before being lifted into the Vehicle Assembly Building's Highway 2 for final assembly with the engine section. The top four-fifths assembly (forward skirt, liquid oxygen tank, and inner tank) is mated to the engine section in the Core Stage Vertical Integration Center, representing the first time this final assembly sequence is being performed in the vertical configuration at Kennedy Space Center.
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Live coverage of Artemis III SLS Core Stage KSC offload, April 2026本站添加:
Good morning. It's a little early here on the west coast of the United States.
It's uh a little bit later in the morning. Uh in this scene here, we're looking at the Kennedy Space Center and specifically the the dock at the turn basin. And this is this is the uh NASA's Pegasus barge.
And actually it looks like we can see a little bit of we can see the uh SPMTS the lights flashing down here.
So they looks like they really are getting ready to move the This is the top four fifths of the SLS core stage core stage three which is uh pointed at Artemis 3. So, for the last several well, not I don't know how long, many hours this morning, uh they started this stream a little earlier than I thought, but they have been taking equipment off of the barge that they, you know, packed around the stage, sort of underneath and around the stage uh for uh transport. So a week ago it was in New Orleans and they made the journey through the Gulf around the Florida Peninsula and they arrived at Port Canaveral yesterday morning I believe and then reached the uh turnbas I actually I guess it was a little bit after uh in the afternoon yesterday Kennedy Space Center time. So in the background here, a couple of other things you can you can see uh parts of the pad 39A infrastructure.
Um some of the uh historical infrastructure and then and then you can see the uh the Starship pad and launch mount that is being activated by SpaceX in the background. And you can see back here the the crawler way and um but those flashing lights that we saw for a minute means they are getting they've fired up the self-propelled modular transporters. There are uh I believe that these SPMTs, these sort of mustard colored ones that go with the mustardcoled carriers are there are five of them and they they one of them is a spare and for the trip they would have been they would have lowered the stage down onto mounts on the barge and then they would have been there the the the deck of the barge which has many D-rings uh which they used to lash these things down and other equipment down to secure it to the deck.
And so one of the things that they did once they got once they got there was to unpack things like purge equipment to keep the uh electronics and other nonpropellent tank equipment air conditioned. And then they would have sort of unpacked the SPMTS and this morning they've now positioned them underneath the carriers for this system which is called the multi-purpose multi-purpose transportation system. It's early and uh you can see different patterns of flashing lights and uh if you're close enough to them and maybe well actually I don't know if this stream has sound anyway, but you can hear they they make uh they make noises when they're uh when they're in different modes.
But you can also see Uh the stage is loaded front end first and of course then to get it off it's backed out. You can see the you can see a little bit of the uh cover over the engine section transportation adapter. So the the reason they call this the the top four fists is because it's literally the top four fists of the stage. The stage has five elements uh from top to bottom. the forward skirt, the liquid oxygen tank, the inner tank, and the liquid hydrogen tank.
And the engine section engine section was shipped to Kennedy Space Center several years ago. It was the first engine section shipped when Boeing expanded their uh production operations for core for core stage. And this was back uh when they were looking to expand to uh produce both core stages and expiration upper stages. And that of course has uh that of course has been depending on uh depending on how you uh characterize it either been killed or suspended. But uh what they did back then and is still in effect today is that they now they now structurally assemble engine sections in New Orleans at the machute assembly facility and then they ship them to Kennedy Space Center and Boeing then outfits them here. And of course that's the engine section is by far the most complicated element of the stage. Takes the most time. is essentially the long lead element of the five.
And so they it took them it's taken them this long for various reasons to get that section ready to be mated with the rest of the stage. Now, in parallel with that, they're they're looking at the, you know, they're looking at the schedules overall and trying to do just in time um production.
So, there's been there have been issues with with the engine section and issues with the top four fists. But, here we are.
Artemis 2 just launched four weeks ago and they do have this stage now in a uh in a condition where it seems like they're going to be ready to mate the do this final major join of the stage here in the vehicle assembly building relatively soon. Uh we don't have a uh a a a good time estimate for this at at but that's really the big the big deal here. And so it does look like they are moving now. You can see the lights on the SPMTS from time to time are solid. And as they move the stage off uh or you know the top four fifth of the stage, they'll have to adjust the uh the the water that they're holding in the in the barge to to try and keep it relatively level. But, uh, when you see the lights down here solid, that usually means that the SPMTs are in motion and they still have the cones out here. It'll take a little while to get to get the, uh, to to to do this, pardon me. But, uh, this is, you know, this is the third one of these large assemblies that have been delivered to the Kennedy Space Center.
And they're it does seem like they're getting this is they're getting a little bit not a little bit they have a lot more experience. And so it is interesting.
They talked about the offload being around this time 8:00 a.m. Eastern.
And um and so there's a lot of prep work ahead of that, but it's 8:00 a.m. Eastern, give or take 5 minutes, and they're they're they're in motion here. So the stage the stage will the stage will be backed out.
uh they'll they'll they'll um they'll back it out on this road here and then they'll do basically a little three-point turn, so to speak, and then go forward into the transfer aisle of the vehicle assembly building. So, they'll they're they will be entering uh on the south side, the low bay entrance.
So, in ter in terms of uh directions here, the the barge is more or less aligned uh east to west here. So this would be somewhat north to south.
Uh same thing with the crawler way.
And then it's not quite as clear how things are um what hardware is in the transfer aisle at this point. So it'll be interesting to see if we get pictures. Um the core stage 4 engine section last we'd heard was still in the transfer aisle and Boeing is trying to consolidate all of their uh SLS core stage production work in highway 2. And so they're still building out the they're still building out infrastructure in there. Um, but they when they originally talked about this produ splitting this production off from New Orleans and moving it here back in late 2022, they talked about being able to either process or store two units uh either at the same time or, you know, that was kind of the idea. And so it sounds like at this point it's going to, you know, there's there's still even though uh even though NASA leadership is already talking about a a commercial world, there is still this is still for the moment still a governmentowned and operated program. And so Boeing is still a contractor for NASA. NASA still ultimately calls the shots here. And so when when I was asking about well what are you guys talking about you know Boeing what are you what are you doing now to some extent how far they take uh work to expand capacity or production capacity uh regardless of the words that are said about cadence there's more to it than that there's obviously uh contracts that type of stuff. So how how far they expand production capacity is is a mixture of what NASA wants to do now and then it there are commercial considerations but what's going to happen with this stage with this unit is we're seeing the this engine section I think it's called now a transportation adapter. But basically what it is is it's the very first engine section structural element that was uh that was produced in New Orleans. It was it this was this this was the engine section uh qualification article. So it's essentially identical in structure to an engine section structure. It was it was shipped to Marshall Space Flight Center back in 2017. Yes. That long ago for it went through a structural test campaign for the way that they did the structural testing for core stage because it was so large and they did not have facilities that could test a a whole stage unit. It's you know on the order of 65 m long, 200 m long without the engines.
the engines. You know, if you if you measure from the the the exit plane of the engines to the to the forward plane of the forward skirt, it's, you know, they I think they talk about it being about 212 ft uh 66 m. Um but they in contrast to the propellant tanks that were done, each of these is they did four structural test articles.
The propellant tanks were were uh tested to failure essentially. I think they call them mar they called it margin testing. um those final those those were basically optional tests and I think they did the propellant tanks at the at the end of the overall campaign but this was not this was not tested this I think was tested to the point of point where they did see some yielding but it was not they did not they did not um I guess I guess it's they were they were able to preserve this for at least this type of use. It I don't think would be usable for flight for instance, but it is still useful for this because it has because it is an identical structure to an engine section structure. It has all of the uh it has all of the it has had the ability to be outfitted for transportation like an engine section.
So what we're seeing on the what we're seeing here is we're seeing the the a a barrel engine section barrel and thrust structure although we can't see the thrust structure and the obviously the blue boeing cover over that.
A fully outfitted engine section would have a boat tail structure on the end of it. And then after that is mated to the rest of the stage, then they finish up all of the uh internal connections and external outfitting, external detailing, if you will.
And that's what we're that's what the rest of this hardware, the flight hardware will be going through in the next for the rest of the year probably. and we'll we'll see how how quickly uh how quickly they need it and how quickly they uh how quickly things happen because one of the things that happened yesterday, we're actually um we're we're in uh NASA administrator Jared Isaacman is kind of running the gauntlet in over in in beginning last week and then into this week with hearings. Uh he's testifying in front of the House and Senate, in front of different committees. Last last week he uh testified in front of the House Oversight Committee, the authorizing committee. Yesterday he testified in front of the House Appropriations Subcommittee subcommittee.
This morning in less than two hours, I believe he will be testifying in front of the Senate Appropriations Subcommittee.
and then perhaps it's I don't know if that's the last one or if he will also be testifying in front of the authorizing committee of the Senate as well. But uh that will be what happened yesterday. That was interesting. And I'm still I I went ahead and asked NASA for clarification just because I thought it was a I thought it was it was uh news to me. But he said in testimony yesterday that the lunar lander providers SpaceX and Blue Origin had said to him that they would be ready for an Artemis 3 mission in late 2027, which is significantly later than we'd been uh advised over the last couple of months. And it's basically been it's basically been two months since the new Artemis plans were originally announced. This was February 27th and at that time they talked about Artemis 3 in mid 2027.
And then subsequently in the pardon me in the pre- Artemis 2 launch uh media buildup. So this was basically a month ago, a month ago. So March 24th, they NASA did an this event that they called ignition. Um that was a set of briefings that were held at NASA headquarters in Washington DC. But then the Aremis 2 launch was on was scheduled for April 1st.
that which was a Wednesday and I believe uh the Monday uh March 30th was when we did sort of the media NASA subject matter expert uh speed dating thing. So, uh, a bunch of reporters sign up to interview, you know, ask questions of different subject matter experts for, you know, 10 minutes tops.
And of course, the NAS representative for the human landing system program, um, everybody signed up for him, but only so many people were able to talk to him. But to be fair, uh, the reporters that did get to talk to him asked all of the, you know, there the the questions for HLS are obvious. And so one of the questions that he was asked by Jeff Faustst, um, and and who wrote about this, uh, I don't know if he wrote about this for space news, but I saw it in a in an article that was published by the space review. He he'd asked about a readiness time frame for for the HLS providers and at that time he was told again this is essenti this is less than a month ago he was told they were asked to prepare for a launch in between March and June so essentially the second quarter of 2027.
So, which is sooner in some respects than mid 2027 in some ways.
And so, now a month later, uh, Mr. Isaacman is talking about late 2027. And so, that's a little that was disorienting enough that I that I thought I should ask for clarification.
Now, uh, having said that, uh, there are already stories out this last night, um, quoting him on that. And so, again, if I don't believe NASA has issued any clarifications. I asked for one specifically. Um, and to be fair, it's only, you know, again, the the typical work hours are just beginning now. So, we'll see if there is any clarification or not. But um that would have that would have significant implications because it's already a significant delay in the in the plans for in in these new plans that are only two months old. I you know that would be if you if you were if we if they were talking about second quarter of next year if they were talking about March and now they're talking about October or November that's like a half year delay already. And so um that's I think we will we will be we will be listening for updates and refinements to that schedule.
big picture, I guess it makes sense to for leadership to continue to push um to get everything stacked, but and we we know that SLS in particular for the Artemis one vehicle that that vehicle was stacked for nearly two years. And so this is something that I've talked about in previous live streams, but um on the one hand, you have to wonder why stack the vehicle in why start stacking SLS in the middle of 2026 for a launch at the end of 2027.
Um on the one hand, on the other hand, why why not if if uh if the vehicle can support a um you know can can can stay stacked for a couple of years because that would still mean that uh that would still be you'd still be talking about the ability again in theory and based on a whole bunch of other assumptions that it would support a launch into 2028.
It's just that again uh if you're talking about Artemis 3 now in late 2027, what does that do to the plans to launch Artemis 4 in early 2028? Because now you're talking about just a couple of months from late 2027 to early 2028.
So now we're we're seeing again this is uh we're seeing the engine section and you're starting to see um again the some of the exterior detailing so to speak of the stage is still to be to be completed but you can see uh the plus x uh one of the segments of the plus x liquid oxygen feed line has been installed.
So, it looks like maybe two or looking at pictures when it was rolled out last week, it looks like there's a couple of those. The feed lines are uh it's a set of segments. I can't remember if it's up to six, but it's it's several segments. And then you have all of these uh bolted flanges between the segments because you're talking about uh cryogenic fluid.
And uh so what's going to happen to this when it gets into the vehicle assembly building once they're ready to once they're ready to mate it to the engine section and the engine section is already installed in this new tool in high 2 which is called the core stage vertical integration center.
they will they'll hook they'll they'll do a two crane breakover operation. So very similar to uh what you would do with a with with the completed stage. They will break it over from hor horizontal to vertical and then they will lift they will lift it into high bay 2. So it'll they'll they'll break it over to vertical in the transfer aisle and then it'll go up and over into high B2 and then it will it will stay suspended while Boeing unbolts this uh engine section simulator um from the bottom of the from the aft flange of the liquid hydrogen tank.
And then once that you know that mating surface will then be uh prepared for then being bolted to the real engine section of the Artemis 3 core stage. And so once that's once that's been prepared and once they're ready then the crane will then uh take the stage up uh up up and over the top of the vertical integration center and then lower it down onto the onto the engine section.
And then they will do this will be the first core stage final assembly sequence done in the vertical. And so in the past they they had to do this in the horizontal because uh in New Orleans there's no there's no building that that uh you can put a 212 foot long. There's there's no building with that high of a hook height. But they do have that for they do have have one in at the Kennedy Space Center.
So going through looking at looking at some of the questions here.
Now this this will this will take this operation will take a little while and so again this is uh this this may be one of the last one of these type of live streams but you know if if there's anything if we have another uh live event like this that's related I I'll I'll certainly interest um willing to do these this is uh this is always interesting but so there I'll have to take a break from time to time this morning and actually again I if I I know I was talking about Senate testimony Mr. Isaacman will be testifying in front of the Senate here at 10 beginning at 10:00 a.m. Eastern.
So, and that'll be something that we'll probably have to uh record and come back to. But that's something else that that uh I'm keeping an eye or an ear on this morning.
But there was a there was a question about um SRB recovery ships.
I think NASA wanted to for a while NASA has uh SLS program officials have said and of course it's shuttled derived so to speak that the the the four segment boosters uh recovering and refurbishing the cases and the hardware was they were they were breaking even on that as opposed to I mean as opposed to anything else. And so it they were they were basically just breaking even as opposed to, you know, as opposed to doing better from a business case standpoint. And so they they deleted all of the recovery hardware from the from the nose of the boosters. And the intent had been at the outset of the SLS program, which is like 15 years ago now, to transition to composite case boosters, to transition to um custom design to a, you know, to a a design tailored for an SLS for the SLS configuration.
and um both the boosters and the upper stage and but it's just taken they started with the upper stage. So again if this SLS vehicle with with the uh with the interum cryogenic propulsion stage although again that's a question for Artemis 3 but we'll set that aside. So let's talk about the Artemis 2 vehicle then. The Artemis 2 and Artemis 1 vehicles um flew Space Shuttle main engines, Space Shuttle solid rocket booster hardware in a five segment configuration and the Aries one solid rocket boosters.
So, uh the only elements although they're they're the core elements, but the the core stage was basically the new piece of the booster.
Everything else was taken from uh existing either shuttle or constellation designs.
And so the Aries 1 boosters were designed to be recovered, but I think they looking at flying two of them together in more of a shuttle type configuration except an inline shuttle-derived configuration.
They because the Aries one thrust trace is was adaptable to this SLS block one configuration. They they went with it.
the the alternative would have been even more expensive.
But uh they wanted to move to a either you know again we don't know how seriously they were how seriously everybody was and whether they were all on the page but they talked about the concept of either doing liquid liquid boosters or solid boosters. I think realistically um the the bolle design, the booster obsolescence booster obsolescence and life extension, the next generation booster design that that was that was in design uh as the second upgrade and is still kind of a mystery about whether that's been uh killed by NASA leadership or not. But um that uses composite cases. It's it's an expendable design like the rest of the vehicle, but the the thrust trace and the they they took the advantage of going to going to a clean clean sheet design to take out things like hydroine.
The uh the solid rocket booster hydraulics are still hydroine powered.
Um, one of the things they did on the core stage is they they went from uh hydroine auxiliary power units to a a cold gas. I think that was more of a like a delta design where you do a helium spin start and then and then the APUs are then continue to be driven with the RS25 engines during main stage with the uh essentially the the out pressure is used to run to turn the turbines for those for the the nextG booster design was going to use an electric TBC thrust vector control electric hydraulics for thrust vector control.
So they took the opportunity with a new design to to do a lot of upgrades and um but they also went to an expendable design.
So I think again one of the reasons that they that that they weren't that enthusiastic about recovering these solid rocket boosters is because they they had not seen a huge financial advantage with the with the shuttle ones.
And so that's a good question. So the the question about is it both Blue Origin and SpaceX giving the late 2027 timeline or is it just one? That's uh that's probably the first question. um immediately after the question, are you are you can you confirm that you're that it really is late 2027 now? But then the ne very next question is okay, which one?
Or is it both? So, it's possible that one of them is like, you know, we can make mid 2027 and the other one's saying late 20110, late 2027. But it's also possible that one of them is saying, "Okay, we can barely make late 2027."
And the other one is saying, "Yeah, we can barely make 2028." So it one of them could be earlier or one of them they could both be same time frame. One of them could be earlier than that or one of them could be later as well. So uh could be it could be uh you know and again to be fair the mid 2027 time frame we don't know whether uh even though we see these preparations here for the for the core stage um have already reached this point where they're getting ready to do final assembly and could be ready to stack this core stage element by the end of the year um still has to happen. So they it's unrealized schedule potential at this point. So um so there's the the question about the uh SRB that this 12 month stacking clock.
And so when I if I say it that way that's that's what that's what we're talking about. We're talking about a it's a a generic length of time that that you can have segments mated to other segments. It has to do with the field joints between the segments. And so if you put if you put down as you have to start SRB stacking with the aft assemblies, the aft assemblies are put on the vehicle support posts on mobile launcher one.
That doesn't start the stacking clock because there's no field joint mate at that point. Once you then begin stacking the motor assembly segments, which would begin with the aft center segments, those are lifted in and you do your first field joint mates between the aft center segments and the aft assemblies.
That's when those clocks start. And of course they're individual clocks but typically exploration ground systems when they're doing this work with a momentum and uh with north of Grumman obviously also assisting supporting you know they'll do they'll they'll typically start those clocks within a few days of each other. So effectively it's the same time.
So the reason that they need the reason that they need an engine section for transport or an engine section structure is because this transportation system was designed for a full length a a a fully outfitted well that's not true but a mostly outfitted core stage.
So you have what we can see now. We can see this uh the the the MPTS the multi-purpose transportation system. You have um you have these hardware interface structures which is this part of the carrier up here. And then those are bolted to uh essentially a a a carrier plate essentially. Um, so you have these uh this is a common hiss here and then uh you have a you have the the forward hiss which attaches to the solid rocket booster uh forward attach points on the inner tank. So if you were to without the without an engine section specifically you you need some type of a spacer so to speak. We can talk about that too for Artemis 3, but you need some sort of a spacer to fit this because you're talking about loads on the vehicle and mounts on Pegasus that require the the H to be in this position.
So you could either you can either build a completely new or heavily redesigned transportation system or you could you could build a spacer like this to just continue to use this existing transportation system. And so you know again I I haven't had a chance to talk to folks. Um we did we did sort of the speed dating thing again last week. So, you know, um, so, you know, 5 10 minutes to talk to folks. And the thing is is like you're you're you're trying to ask questions and in the meantime, this this this unit was being, you know, um, rolled out. So, trying to do two things at once.
Uh, not not as easy as it sounds. Um, but I don't know if this was their intent all along that they they knew that they had this. Um, but it was it was a little bit of a surprise to me because when I asked about it a couple actually almost three years ago now, um, they didn't talk about this specifically. So, it wasn't until I actually saw them putting it in use and stacking the liquid hydrogen tank on it last fall that it was like, "Oh, okay.
That's what they went with." I was actually thinking they were going to use one of the simulators for the structural test articles. And so this when this was when this went through the structural testing, it had a what was more like a half cylinder um bolted to the top of it so that they could do the you know they could apply the limit loads and ultimate loads to the structure um and go through the full uh structural test campaign when they did that in Huntsville. And then of course that was unbolted.
But uh that's that's why basically is it it was it was probably a number of things just uh maybe more than more convenient but also you know probably more cost effective just made more sense to uh rather than rather than build a whole bunch of other stuff to just to just furnish uh a spacer so that you could continue to use the existing transportation equipment that that they had.
So that and I guess for a moment to to to continue the spacer conversation. So actually I think let me see if I can I think I had this sort of semi-prepared but the um you know this this was the slide that was presented at the uh at the ignition event. Uh apologies for I'm uh uh I I I still need to do to do some cleanup myself but um you know they talked about uh they talked about an ICPS or a spacer for Artemis 3. So, we're still waiting. We're still waiting to see what uh about what that decision is, but I Ron Ron is asking or was asking a few minutes ago in chat how high a fidelity uh the the uh lunar lander vehicles need to be. And I think you know uh people people uh go uh reach because it's a convenient analogy to the Apollo 9 mission and that was something that I was trying to emphasize in the in in this last video from um uh that I that was that went public on Sunday which is that um for an Earth orbit mission for Apollo 9 for instance you you weren't testing uh landing. You weren't you weren't fully testing uh landing guidance, navigation, and control for the lunar lander for the lunar module on Apollo 9, but they tested they they tested uh rendevous rendevous and docking. They tested um they tested docked burns between the vehicles. Um you know, how does how does how does the mated vehicle perform? And when you know in that case the the uh the uh command service module SPS engine was fired. How does how does the how does the mated vehicle uh handle when the the lunar module descent engine was fired?
They tested obviously transferring back and forth um you know probe and drogue installation and and and removal uh opening the hatches etc. But they didn't test the landing systems completely and that obviously didn't happen until until Apollo 11. Um but then they were also they were also in that case not applicable now testing staging uh fire in the hole. Um, but they also tested they also tested both uh both spacecraft's ability to rendevous and dock with the other. And so Apollo 9 was the first opportunity to test the uh command service modules rendevous and docking capabilities.
Although I guess to be fair actually you know what I guess I I'll take that back. I I guess they because of the conops for Apollo, I don't know that even though the command service module could do that, I don't know that they did that nominally.
Um, but they usually the lunar module would lift off and go find the command service module. But on but on for the conops for this system, Orion would launch, it's similar to constellation. now uh in some respects.
So Ryan launches, it goes it goes and finds the lunar lander, uh rendevous and docks with it. Um and then the crew transfers to the lunar lander, they go down to the surface, they land, they do the surface operations for however long that is. And then they lift off the moon and then the lunar lander goes and finds Orion.
So, you could do a lot of that on on Artemis 3 depending on how high a fidelity um lunar landers. The thing the the the point is we're hearing, you know, we're hearing stuff on the lower end of the spectrum, so to speak, on the on the left end of the spectrum, on the lower fidelity end of the spectrum, where instead of uh on the on the one hand, uh astronauts getting into the lunar landers, closing the hatches, um undocking and flying the lunar lander away from Orion like they did on Apollo.
9 with that hardware. On the other end, you're talking about um only being able to come up to the spacecraft but not being able to dock with it. So um but both spacecraft, both Orion and the lunar landers are going to need to rendevous and dock with the other during a lunar landing mission. And so Artemis 3 would at least provide the opportunity to do that. Whether or not the lunar landers are ready to do that um at this well that's not fair. We don't know when both spacecraft will be ready to do that. And I think the big picture question that I was posing in the last video and it just going to is going to be in there is going to be a big picture question in general is when is that going to be? Is that going to be by the end of 2027?
Um, and the other question being, does it make any sense at all at this point to fly an Aremis mission without a lunar lander, whether that's a prototype or not? Um, it's hard, it's harder to make that argument now. It's probably there an argument could be made but I don't know how I don't know how this architecture now which is you know again the the the goal of Artemis at this point is establishment of of a lunar base on the surface of the moon.
You need landers for that. If you had if you had an orbiting outpost uh like Gateway used to be, then you could in theory um you could in theory fly Orion and SLS missions that had some, you know, some level of I mean, I'm not really even sure how to describe it, but it's just gateway was a more integral element of the of of that architecture.
um even if landing was still the ultimate goal at one point there there was Orion and SLS existed and gateway existed without a lunar lander. So, but that's not the case anymore. And again, the priority of the the priorities are now are the moon base. And so, um, it's harder to it's harder to see an argument for flying Artemis 3 if neither lunar lander is ready to go. And and then you have to start to wonder what's a minimum what is a minimum level of capabilities for the lunar lander and for Orion and SLS um for Artemis 3 as it's currently constituted. If they if they can't dock I that's if Orion can't dock with at least one of the lunar landers is that enough or you know because obviously the other goal here or the other big picture goal is is a time frame. So the the the new policy talks about being a landing by the end of 2028 by the end of this presidential term. Um, so that's you know even though they added this mission it just because they inserted this mission and have a a more ambitious launch schedule.
That was one of the questions is how did that did that materially change um this or is it just again it's the point of let's go faster. Um, I do think that that has helped or that has certainly increased the the the the tempo of of SLS production, although to be fair, I think that had started um last year.
Um, and of course, Mr. Isaacman's nomination kind of went through ups and downs, but I get the sense that they had started to try and in uh pick up the tempo last year and then that was just reinforced again when when Mr. Isaacman took office in I believe it was December, pardon me. So, um but yeah, it's it it's there there are there the schedule is still a huge question. Um again not just for the lunar landers but uh also for SLS and Orion and exploration ground systems. It's just again we because we've seen you know this is the third core stage build. Um we've seen Orion we've seen two you know two crew module service module integrated Orion vehicles assembled and now they're working on the third. And so we we know we know what the what the interim milestones look like. We have an idea about what the build looks like in total.
And so when we see this milestone for instance, even though we don't necessarily have dates in and this is the first time they're going to do it in the vertical, we at least have a a sense of okay, this this suggests that they're going to that they're going to be they're going to be ready to stack sometime towards the, you know, probably in the last quarter of this year. And, you know, if it's earlier than that, I don't, you know, that's that's that's I suppose gravy for the schedule. And then the same thing for Orion. Looks like it looks like those remaining hardware elements for for those two programs are are pointed towards um being handed over to exploration ground systems for stacking sometime towards the end of this year.
We we just have no clue about what the schedule looks like for firsttime spacecraft and these are and and with you know very ambitious uh development for Starship and for Blue Moon for for different reasons. They're different designs but we really don't have any any sense of insight into the progression of milestones. Um what happens from one step to another? what happens from one launch to another. And so it's just very the it is it is certainly possible that they're that that one or both of them are um on similar schedules. It's just we we don't have any way of verifying that right now. And the the problem is is that the history for all of these programs is delay. though it it will be difficult to tell when when programs turn the corner except with except in hindsight.
So, so yeah, there's it changing changing the overall schedule and increasing the tempo has its benefits, but it's still very difficult to tell today whether whether there is anything uh whether you will have a lunar lander ready for even this new test mission in in 2027.
And one of the things that I mentioned I think uh there's only so far you can accelerate these builds. And so, uh, NASA NASA has planned had planned on having this vehicle ready, um, or hoped or a little or a combination of all of the above to have this vehicle positioned to fly 12 to 15 months after Artemis 2. Um again I I so when perhaps even before but certainly again Artemis 3 had had been for the last for the first half of the decade had had been planned as the first lunar landing mission and so there was there was a huge sense of urgency to have that mission ready to fly as soon as possible after Artemis 2 as much as could as much as possible.
And so when Artem when Artemis 1 was completed at the end of 2022, Artemis 2 was was hoped to fly at the end of 2024 and they talked about that, you know, a November 2024 date and they talked about Artemis 3 in December of 2025. So more or less a year. When Artemis 2 was delayed from that date to September 2025, Artemis 3 was then positioned in September of 2026, again only a year after Artemis 2.
Then because there we started to we we got more and more data about um the delays for all of the programs. um Artemis 2 that that delay of Artemis 2 from November 2024 to September 2025 was at the beginning of 2024.
And at that point there were a lot of questions about is how how realistic how or how aspirational is September 2026 for Artemis 3? Is it really possible to fly that soon after Artemis 2? because you're because that has always required a lunar lander, especially if you're talking about a lunar landing mission.
So then when they delayed Artemis to to April, you know, no later than April 2026, that was um early December of 2024. At that point, then Artemis 3 was was not given a month. It was that was when Artemis 3 as a lunar landing mission was pushed to mid 2027. So now you've gone from 12 a 12-month interval to again guesstimating more like a 12 to 15month interval.
And so for the better part of four years at least, if not longer, NASA has been because Artemis 3 has always been of some urgency.
NASA has planned on flying it as soon as a year after Artemis 2 if they could. That there's a lot of assumptions that that went into that logic, but some of it has now happened.
Now, Artemis 2, they're still doing post-flight assessments. It's still initial post-flight assessments, but so far it does look like Artemis 2 has been a very uh a very good mission. It certainly has been safe and successful and so far looks relatively clean.
So that's not necessarily going to be a showstopper for flying Artemis 3 uh next year.
the ne the other this what we're looking at um SLS production Orion production is another thing that has to happen if they still have to finish th these this hardware by the end of this year um in order to support a 2027 mission. Um but again, you know, again, then it comes back to especially now it comes back it it it comes back then we circle back around to the lunar landers again and are they going to be ready to fly uh next year and not necessarily to land but really just like again that's why the Apollo I think folks reach for the Apollo 9 analogy um because it it It's it's the closest to being to to what Artemis 3 they're talking about now. But um it would test ideally I would I would say again if you go back and look at this if we go back and look at this um the the the uh these goals.
Let me bring it up here so I can see it.
So, demonstrate a multi-launch campaign.
Okay, you're going to get that if you're going to even just do a rendevous and proxops demo. Um, I'm going down this column here.
Demonstrate Orion rendevous proximity operations and docking with the landers in Earth orbit. So, um, Orion is at least decently positioned to be ready to do that. They have the docking their the docking hardware is on hand. they're whether they're going that's going to be installed before the obviously before that is uh fully before that's delivered from Loheed Martin to exploration ground systems. Demonstrate crude docked operations in Earth orbit that requires docking with that requires the lunar lunar lander supporting docking demonstrate increasing mission cadence with prompt turnaround of pad and ground systems. you know, again, we will see that that that's where you bring in exploration ground systems in terms of turning around the mobile launcher. Um, and then they will sort they will they will be in charge once these final elements are are handed over to them, those being the SLS core stage and Orion. But they're already receiving solid rocket booster hardware. They are already processing that and they'll begin stacking the boosters. um exploration ground systems integrated operations will begin stacking the boosters again unless we hear something different. What we were hearing is they're they're supposed to start stacking in the summer of this year.
But, you know, it does get it does get a little bit more vague over here on the right. um the the the space suits. Um I don't think they're necessarily we haven't necessarily heard that they're going to talk about um or that they're talking about doing an extra vehicular activity. In other words, um uh a twoerson EVA, which I think you would do just in general for for safety reasons.
uh you know I don't you would have to have a working airlock uh you would have to and then those suits would have to go outside and and operate and vacuum. Uh I think they're talking more about an intraveicular activity where you get you get to test um dawning and doing the suits. Um you may be you know maybe operating them on umbilicals.
Um, but it would give the crews the ability to evaluate things like that and testing them in an in a space environment without testing them in a in a EVA environment or fully EVA environment. But then if you're talking about demonstrating uh critical HLS and vehicle performance in Earth orbit, that's that's vague because it because you would certainly it would be an opportunity to test their RPOD capabilities, their ability to do farfield rendevous proximity operations and dock with Orion, which they will have to do for the lunar landing mission. Um and then the permeable heat shield that's you know that is more uh that's an Orion that's an Orion uh test objective So, it looks like they've almost they may have the they've removed the cones.
It looks like they've got almost the entire if not the entire weight and the load has now is now completely off of the barge or very close to it. They may be uh slowly getting you can see this is the forward hiss and the the MPCs underneath it. So the the the transportation system is the the SPMTS carry the transportation system so to speak which again these are just carriers but you have these forward hisses uh horizontal no hardware interface structures and then those are mounted to MPCs which are called I think they're called multi-purpose carriers and it's it's basically a you know a carrier panel and then these structures that bolt to the to uh vehicle itself.
So they will, as I was saying earlier, they will they'll back it out. They'll they'll back it out to out here. And this is the this is the Kennedy Space Center press site parking lot. Um they'll do a three-point turn out here and then the forward end they'll drive it into the vehicle assembly. I believe this camera is on the balcony or a balcony of the OSB2 building um at the Kennedy Space Center. So, the press site would be off to the right here. And now again, you can see you can see more of the pad 39A uh infrastructure in the background.
And so, yes, that's the Falcon Heavy that uh the the weather the weather held up that launch yesterday. Um, I believe if if I recall correctly that that was uh that was rescheduled for tomorrow, but it was ready to go. And apparently just the the weather is, you know, the weather is just is what held them up.
But we can almost see the entire four fifths now. Uh you can see again this is the liquid hydrogen tank. Uh these are liquid oxygen feed lines and again the liquid oxygen tank is at the top of the stage. So this is the little this is a different orientation than I think you typically see for for um for other uh for for other types of fueled uh liquid stages.
It's a little hard to see from this angle, but there's they again there's there's a a lot of detailing that needs to be done. Um but they they have done they they they some of the things that need to be finished on the exterior of the stage are the liquid oxygen the liquid oxygen feed lines the uh systems tunnel which is down here and we can we it's it might be a little easier to see because they have sort of plastic dark almost like trash bag plastic covering the the systems tunnel um base plates.
And then they'll need to finish the uh reressurization lines. So they'll there will be some uh welding that will be done uh to to finish those.
But the first thing that'll the first thing that needs to be done is is that it needs to be it needs to be uh rotated to vertical. And then they'll they will disconnect the transportation adapter the the transportation adapter here which is again just essentially a it's a bare engine section structure and then this will be mated this upper four fists will be mated to the to the real engine section for Artemis 3 for the Artemis 3 core stage and then that's where then they can begin uh they can they'll be in the home stretch of the the uh final assembly and that really is that's really more of the milestone that I think um will will it'll tell a well that's not true but I mean it's it's the bigger milestone in my mind is when they actually do that mate because if you if we were talking about this in New Orleans for the first two builds it was it was mating the engine section uh to the rest of the stage. Um in this case, you you're you're putting you're inserting a a uh some transportation activities in front of that. Um but really it's that milestone. It's the milestone of when they actually lift uh lift the top four fifths into the vertical integration center in vehicle assembly building highway 2 and made it to the to the engine section. And then all of those activities in theory would be uh they'll they would be working on that um for this for how whenever that mate occurs. So they'll do those mates and then there are internal connections.
So as an example the uh the liquid hydrogen feed lines into the into each of the four RS25 engines.
Well, those are all all of the feed lines are in the engine section. The engines come are installed later, but they have to connect they will connect the uh liquid hydrogen pre- valves that are on the back end of the hydrogen tank right now. Um, you can't see them here, but they are there, but they will connect the feed lines up to the pre- valves. They'll connect the uh you know they'll they'll do some of the final um outfitting all of the you know the those connections between the pre- valves and the feed and the hydrogen feed lines are are bolted flanges as well. Once all of those have been bolted and leak checked, they will uh they will close those out with foam on the inside. um again to to reduce the the the heat loss or the the the boiloff um through those lines as much as they can. And that's one of the reasons why you see if you look at the feed line, the liquid oxygen feed lines, those are also covered with foam.
So, um they'll be doing those types of things. They'll be completing all of the wiring connections. The the systems tunnel basically carries uh power and power data and other you know networking uh connections between the avionics in the forward skirt to the avionics in the inner tank to the avionics in the engine section.
And they'll be doing a bunch of the foam closeouts on the exterior. And so as this gets closer to the camera it'll be a little easier to see.
the um they did some foam sprays um of these flanges between the the the last major join that was done in New Orleans was for the these three elements, the forward skirt, the liquid oxygen tank, and the inner tank. Those were joined first. That's called the forward join.
And then the the bottom of the inner tank was made to the top of the liquid hydrogen tank. That was major join two.
And then they've started to do some foam closeouts where they spray that bolt those bolted flanges, but they haven't done the the full detailing. So, at some point they'll sand those down so that the so that they have uh a relatively flush outer mold line, but that's still to be done. And and some of the there's still connections that they have to make um across those bolted flanges. And so they still have uh areas of for all of these flanges uh even the forward join flanges that they haven't done yet. And those will all be done in the vertical integration center as well. And one of the advantages that Boeing uh touted for the vertical integration center versus horizontally is when you have to do this horizontally, the uh in New Orleans, the stage is on a different set of equipment um that allows you to roll the stage that give you access to different um parts of the stage. When the stage is vertical in this uh integration center tool in the VAB, the the uh the build team will have 360° access. There will be uh there will be areas that will be uh maybe a little bit harder to get to because that's where the where the stage is um secured uh to the to the tool. But in general, they will they'll be able to do uh they'll able they'll be able to work around the circumference on the exterior of the stage um in parallel.
And so they'll have better better access to the to around the entire circumference of the stage.
And the idea being that they can get more work done um in a shorter period of time.
But the flip side of it is that this is the first time that they're doing this.
And so, you know, you would expect again from a historical standpoint, they're they they will go they will go a little bit a little more deliberately.
So, but the goal is still to have this ready for stacking by by the end of the year for sure. I know that they, you know, they were certainly talking about um doing that, mating the core stage to the stacked boosters this year.
The So going back and this is a good question. Um, you know, again, I I I know this is not a question that that that that this is not a question that that that NASA wants to be asked about because they want the lunar landers to be a part of this. But, um, well, let me make let me go back and make sure that there was something wasn't something else. But, but Steve was asking uh, let's see. Steve was asking, is it too late for Artemis 3 to go back to being a lunar mission if they chose Well, I guess the best way to put it is it can only be a lunar mission if Well, that's I think under these circumstances, it can only Artemis 3 could only be a lunar mission if they use ICPS. So, if they were to go with a spacer, then the answer is no. And again, it goes back to that question of is there a is there a useful mission for that that Artemis is there a a useful mission for the Artemis overall without a lunar lander? And and I I I don't know that there it again a year ago I think you you could it was easier to make an argument for a standalone Orion mission to the moon.
Now, I'm not so sure, but let's go back and uh actually it looks like there were there were a couple of there were some questions above that.
So, I guess a little bit. Let's see. Um, so building a spacer again it depends on it depends on I'm not sure that that you know the the interim cryogenic propulsion stage is is a United Launch Alliance it's United Launch Alliance hardware. Um, but I don't know that I don't know that I imagine they would be involved in in a spacer, but I don't know that they would necessarily be the ones that would be fabricating it.
Uh, it it really could be as simple as a um as a cylinder that, you know, a cylinder that that mimics the outer mold line of the stage. the stage the the stage the only part of the stage that that is exposed is the liquid hydrogen tank and then the the two structural adapters on the the on the forward and aft ends of the tank. So, uh, for for Delta on the common booster cores, again, this Delta 4 is retired at this point, but you know, you had a, um, you had a you had an adapter on the top that I believe that the the, uh, the payload ad payload fairing would would bolt to, and then on the bottom that would bolt to an inner stage. for SLS.
The the the forward adapter for the ICPS bolts to the um I guess it's the the Orion stage adapter and then the bottom bolts to the launch vehicle stage adapter. So you would just need a cylinder that was pro that was you know the same dimensions five.1 mters in diameter um and could bolt to and the difference between uh spacer and a stage is is that now the connection between the launch vehicle stage adapter and ICPS can be a permanent connection um because you're not going to se there's I don't know that there would be any reason to separate the spacer from the core stage.
So if they were to fly a spacer, you know, you would the the boosters in the core stage would do their thing and then at main after main engine cutoff, the Orion would just directly separate from the as it does when it separates from ICPS, it would just immediately do that. So you would leave behind the entire that entire stack with the core stage. So it would be um not just the uh launch vehicle stage adapter. It would also be it would be the core stage, the LVSA, the spacer, the Orion stage adapter and the spacecraft adapter cone would be left behind and Orion would separate and be on its own at that point.
So the question is is it or or one of the questions is it possible to continue doing the Orion 3 demo mission even without the gateway and the answer is yes. The gateway the the gateway lunar orbital outpost concept um is dead. I I I mean I I I don't know that I'm I'm I don't know that Congress is either willing or able to I guess they I guess they are legally capable of doing it, but I'm not sure that they that they're they're willing to do it. I think it's more any like the discussions that we heard and I don't actually I'm not sure there wasn't discussion but the way that it was phrased yesterday was more of a uh the executive branch is supposed to work with the legislative branch. So the White House is supposed to work with Congress and they're supposed to by law um work together on an operating plan.
Um, and so I think the objection that was expressed yesterday was more of a uh the fact that the White House has already unilaterally um moved out on some of these things um and and without Congress and I don't you know again sometimes that's just the way that's that's the way things go. Um, that's more of a power dynamic thing, but I just don't I I think Gateway the the Gateway lunar orbital outpost is going to be hard to uh is is I I mean, it it's hard not to say it's dead. Anyway, Artemis 3 is a Artemis 3 is a rendevous and docking mission. Um, they don't have to dock with with with gateway.
uh and the gateway elements that were supposed to launch first for the first gateway mission, the the PPE and the Halo, the power and propulsion element and the habitation and logistics outpost modules, those were were pointed towards a late 2027 launch. And so those wouldn't even be available for for docking under the old plan until 2029.
Um, and so that's, you know, that is a, you know, a deal breakaker obviously for this administration because it won't be in power at that point. Um, at least not in theory.
So, you wouldn't be able to do an art an alternate Artemis 3 mission to the gateway before 2029 anyway. That was one of the, you know, again, one of the the the big factors in all of these things and alter alternative missions last year and and past years is just the reason that you were looking at al alternative missions is because of the timeline is what's going to be ready to fly in 2027.
You know, if if if nothing is, then of course you're not going to have a mission. But now because uh Artemis is now is now centered around the lunar landers, is there a is there any mission you can fly without a lunar lander that makes any sense um under that formulation?
So if but if if either of the lunar landers is ready to uh support being a passive docking target or or both a passive docking target and then an active rendevous and docking spacecraft next year then Artemis 3 right now the formulation is an earth orbit rendevous and docking test and um certainly um they can do that if if the hardware can support it, then yeah, they can do they they don't need the gateway certainly to do an Earth orbit mission.
I'm not sure that they have. So, the question is about a an extended lunar shelter plans. I'm not sure that they have certainly not for the initial landings.
I don't think they're they're going to I'm not sure what what what emergency plans they will have other than uh to abort off the surface and go back to the uh go back to the the crew transport in orbit and come back to Earth. So, they'll need it. It's basically the same thing as Apollo. It's like the the they weren't going to they weren't going to be able to they they they needed to get back to the crew transport and they needed to get and they needed you know that needed to work. And so if you had you know again the Apollo 13 accident uh again um that just they they were very lucky from a timing standpoint. um you know uh under a a worstc case timing scenario that would have been um fatal because they wouldn't have had enough time to get back and actually I'm not sure. Well, yeah, they wouldn't have been have had enough time to get back to Earth because the service module had been compromised and basically ran out of life within um I think within a couple of hours of the of the oxygen tank explosion. it was essentially a it was it was no longer functional or supported life at that point. So, um I don't I don't think they're going to have a shelter plan um at first if by some chance you had a large you had Starship and or Blue Moon cargo capability, but the way that the development is working right now and the priorities, they're prioritizing uh crew landing systems over cargo.
if they were to. So, the only way that you'd be able to do that would be and then the question is whether you could whether you could have a shelter in place that is completely uh that could be completely activated autonomously. I imagine you could. It's just again, is that the priority? It seems like the priority. Um, you know, we haven't heard Congress say much of anything over the last, you know, 6 months or so or certainly the last three months since they passed the budget for fiscal year 2026. So, we haven't heard a lot of people talking about the race with China for the last because the White House has not talked about it. But, we did now that we've had a couple of House of Representatives committee hearings. We we're hearing about that again. And so that still does seem to have some sway with with uh with Congress in terms of uh priorities.
But there is definitely uh there is definitely the emphasis and the priorities between the White House and Congress are still not completely perfectly aligned. So, the White House is definitely thinking more is thinking more along the lines of uh long-term sustainability for a moon base.
They think they can they obviously think that they can they can do both, but I think they're prioritizing long-term sustainability over uh another race.
And to be fair, there is still a space program that there would still be a valuable or, you know, and there's still business to be had even if China gets there first. And I think that's the that's the argument. That's that's a that's the quiet part of the argument.
So that's an interesting question, but I do wonder uh with the Starship HLS design. So the question is um well with Starship header tanks, how do they dock to Orion nose tonose? I'm I guess I'm assuming that uh that the HLS uh the HLS design may not have those header tanks.
since it's a it it would be somewhat of a variant. So So now we're seeing it does seem like they're move they they should be able to move faster now that they're now that the weight is transferred onto ground.
So, they will back it up and the camera will the camera's tracking here, but they'll they'll they'll be backing it up for a little farther until they can get to the point where they can do a three-point turn.
That's an interesting question. I think it depends on which timelines you're talking about. The question is what was the original timeline for landing on the moon? At least for this there there have been several aborted uh plans to to to return to the moon. So it depends on which one. If we're just talking about the Aremis one, then the original plan was um you know was sort of throwing down the gauntlet. uh JFK style uh that was in March of 2019. So the the vice president Pence at the time said uh has to happen in 5 years by the end of 2024. So that was the original goal.
I think unfortunately one of the things that that has been the case throughout is that there's there's been the the the dates the the the landing dates for Artemis 3 and now Artemis 4 have have always had some level of aspiration to them. Um I don't know that they were called aspirational dates at the time.
They were just called un maybe just called unrealistic. But there weren't a lot of people that really strongly believed that they were going to be able to make that late 2024 date for Artemis 3 back then. And of course, there were delays across the board for uh for SLS and Orion. And those didn't fly until the end of 2022 for the first time together.
And so then that was the that was the progression of dates. So again, as Artemis 3, when Artemis 3 was the first lunar landing, Artemis, the the dates went from, you know, late 2024 to uh late 2025 to September 2026 to mid 2027.
And then that's that that gets us to this year. And then they changed the they changed the landing to the the the official landing date to Artemis 4 and early 2028.
But the realistic dates are hard to to are are harder to get because they uh those are considered predecisional I guess to some extent or just embarrassing because none of those dates except you know none of the previous dates through Artemis 3 lunar landing in mid 2027 um was realistic and it's just a matter of time before uh all of them are have officially you know we will pass through September 2026 and we will pass through mid 2027 next year but we'll pass through September this year and all the programs will have missed that date too. So that you know this vehicle and this hardware that we're looking at right now isn't going to fly Artemis 3 in September either.
But, you know, again, there's a sort of a out of sight, out of mind quality or whatever you want to call it to to some of these dates. So, it's like, well, if you blame one program for a delay, um, does that mean the other programs were were okay? And certainly for all of the dates through mid2027, that the answer is no. They were all they were all going to be delayed regardless.
And so none of them are, you know, it wasn't just Orion and SLS. It's also again the lunar landers. None of them are going to be ready in September to fly a lunar landing. And of course, now we're all wondering if they're going to be ready in 2028.
Yes. And then yes, as Ron is saying here a few minutes, actually several minutes ago, again, I'm I'm I'm behind chat as usual, but yes, there in fact, Mr. Isaacman talked yesterday in the House hearing about uh about a more a a higher fidelity test of the Axiom space EVA suits on the ISS. So that the I think the idea is they would do a full extra vehicular activity test of the suit using the ISS airlock using you know and using all of that infrastructure.
That's that's I think they're planning on doing that but I think there is still the they're still trying they're still trying to meet the the an Artemis 3 date and at least you know manifest a suit and do some level of testing. But of course that's going to require there's no room on Orion to fly one of those suits. I don't believe I mean without taking I guess you could try and find some room but I think it would it would I don't think I would assume the plan would be to fly that one of those suits or or one on each would be to fly them on the lunar lander prototypes.
And so if that's the case then the only way to test those is to is for there to be a lunar lander ready to fly Artemis 3 as well.
for the for the first lunar landings.
The plans used to be, let me see if let me let me just double check, but the plans used to be for two crew to land on the moon. And yeah, and so that's still the case for the now Artemis 4. They didn't provide a slide, but I I would assume that that's still the case that for the time being, the first lunar landings are going to be with two crew and two crew will stay in Orion in orbit.
At some point when they have enough infrastructure then all four of them will go to the surface and Orion will just Orion will will be will just orbit uncrrewed and the advantage there is that that would extend Orion's ability to stay in lunar orbit because most of the most or all of the I think maybe with the exception of like propellant most of the limiting consumables on Orion have to do with a presence of a crew. So things like oxygen and water and the consumption of those would would be would be minimal when the crew is not there.
So I'm going to take a quick break here because I have to do some morning activity coordination. So I'll be right back.
So the one of the questions in chat is about the whether this barge was used to transport shuttle external tanks. This was the last of the barges. Um I believe previous the previous one was retired but then Pegasus was used for shuttle external tanks. However, it was heavily modified because the external tanks were much shorter than the than the SLS core stage. And so it actually went to dry dock and they lengthened it uh in order to do this.
So yeah, that's the question again as I'm trying to catch up here in chat. So again, we're we we see them backing up here to do this little three-point turn.
I guess they're essentially in that now.
But yeah, so you know, Steve was asking um I guess that's sort of the tension is uh do you fly do you you know do you fly SLS and Orion?
What's more important? Is the cadence more important than than than the lunar landers? Um and so again it goes back to that question. Would you launch?
What's the is is is cadence a higher priority than than the lunar landings?
because that's what that would be part of that decision is the tension is between if you don't have a lunar lander ready but you do have SLS and Orion ready which is again I suppose somewhat ironic since you know again there's a lot of you know there's a lot of back and forth about well you know about delays and so again to be fair SLS and Orion have been around for a much longer time than HLS they got a lot more money than HLS from government anyway.
Um, but they're so they're on different timelines still and that's that's maybe part of the reason why uh and we still have to see whether it's you know whether this is ready at the end of the year you know who's ready at the end of the year but they've been through they've been through a couple of builds now both uh Boeing with the core stage and Loheed Martin with Orion in and then the rest of the hardware because the rest of the hardware besides the core stage more or less is shuttle or constellation derived those that that hardware you can see that dividing line between readiness of the of the shuttle or constellation era hardware and the core stage.
So, you know, the the rest of the SLS elements have been ready for years. Uh the third even if the third ICPS is not used on this mission, it was delivered to Kennedy Space Center in 2023.
The the boosters for Artemis 3 were were were finished and put in storage in 2022.
the space shuttle main engines were uh have been ready for even longer than that.
So, you know, we there's a lot of these different uh timelines. Uh so but that is I think that's where the the conflict or the tension is going to be is what what do you do if you have a stacked Orion and SLS vehicle a year from now and there's no lunar lander ready do you launch it and what are you going to do with it? So it would probably be I guess you so you know and one of those one of those obvious questions would be let's say they choose let's say they they they choose to fly a spacer because there's no you know because there's no lunar lander mission in earth orbit that requires the ICPS and then there's no lunar lander and then if we go down that that line of thinking which again I'm a little skeptical about. But if for some reason they thought they there was a mission that they could fly with Orion by itself. Um you could destack the spacer.
You would probably have to do there would probably be some modifications that you would need to do uh with the LVSA. Although again to be fair, the LVSA was put in storage. The LVSA is configured to fly with a with an ICPS.
So you have a you have a separation plane at the top of the LVSA as as has been the case on Artemis one and Artemis 2. I you know I think it's possible they they would uh I wonder what they would do with that actually whether they would actually uh remove that and put in some sort of a you know remove that frangible joint assembly and save it for another LVSA.
But you could also uh you could destack the spacer, stack the ICPS and do some sort of other mission. But again, I think that's that's sort of that's probably two or three questions deeper than than you know you that that that's probably that's not the big question there. The big question is again, do you fly it just to fly it or do you have or or is it or or or is is are are the lunar landers now fundamental to any Aremis mission at this point?
I thought I thought I saw the So, let's see. Uh, just that one's a simpler question. So, Steve was asking, uh, did NASA use SPMTS for the shuttle external tank? No, they used it was a much simpler uh like a like a but I mean they they basically used I think they just used a a a truck or something like that to uh to tow a it was like a yolk and uh but it was a much simpler uh much simpler.
But again, to be fair, the external tank, even though this looks a lot like an external tank, this the core stage is a is a full rocket stage, the external tank really was uh mostly a it was really mostly a drop a a propellant drop tank. So, all of the avionics for the most part, if not literally for for shuttle, were in the shuttle orbiter. Um, and most of the, you know, most of the most of the active systems, all of the command and control were in the orbiter.
So, there was there just wasn't anything in the tanks except for the the tanks themselves, you know, vent vent valves.
But, I think again, some of that stuff, some of some of the cycling of the valves would probably have been through even uh orbiter avionics.
aside from, you know, the the things about the valves themselves like cracking pressure and things like that.
But um with a full rocket stage with avionics and more delicate equipment in this stage versus an external tank, there were probably more and of course they were probably overdesigned to some extent.
But yeah, this is they're they're this is being handled in a much more delicate way than than the the uh but also probably somewhat of a product of different errors as well.
So Anony's asking, yeah, that again a lot of there there are a lot of questions now with this late 2027.
And so I don't So Anony's asking, you know, what do you think with the new late 2027 date for Artemis 3? Do you think two launches can genuinely occur in 2028 given that timeline?
Uh, I mean, no. It depends. I guess it depends on what they mean by late 2027.
I mean, if you want to say October is late 2027, which I guess is a reasonable argument.
Um I but at at the very least it makes it it makes things a lot harder. There's there's just not that much time.
I I I I really don't know what they would you know. And the thing is, so here's one of the many questions that comes to mind with the late 2027 uh Aremis 3 date.
Where would that mission sit on a timeline with an uncrrewed lunar landing demo for both of them? For both Blue Moon and for Starship, would that be after an uncrrewed lunar landing attempt? So, let's set aside the Orion and SLS cadence issues.
for the moment if HLS had finished their uncrrewed lunar land. Again, I'm not necessarily saying I I'm buying that timeline, but let's just say that they concentrated on the uncrrewed lunar landing demos and they were somehow able to pull those off before Artemis 3 in 2027, then at least from an HLS readiness standpoint, maybe that that at least would make would be a more plausible timeline. But again, that just then that just means that you're going to need uh I think that would be the the the uncrrewed lunar landing demo I think is more challenging than Artemis 3. So, uh, it's hard not it's hard not to wonder out loud if they're if if they're in late 2027 for the for an Artemis 3 style demo if that that the uncrrewed lunar landing demo for for both of them would be later than that rather than sooner. But again, um that's why I was I was surprised um to say the least about hearing that so quickly. I mean, again, it's only been two months since they talked about mid2027.
And again, I did notice that they changed the they changed they started referring to Artemis 3 in 2027 and they dropped any uh they they they increased the uncertainty from you know what what you might call you know mid2027 you might try and argue is anywhere from April to October of 2027. If you're just talking about 2027 now you're talking about anywhere between January and you know January 1st and December 31st um it's unrealistic.
One of them is one of them because the uncertainty increases um it makes this the earliest date less realistic and the later date more and you know with additional severity I suppose. So yeah, I I think really there there there's just there's a lot of questions that spin off of that if that really is the case. If the if if Artemis 3 has already been delayed to late 2027, the again I don't even know where to start. Um the f because one of the one of the first questions is why like are we you know what what happened in the last two months?
Um, or was it just, you know, I mean, again, to be fair, last year, you know, again, before Mr. Isaacman was uh, well, yeah, I think so. Um either no, I guess it was after he was renominated or or certainly they were already talking about renominating him at that point.
But this is again what the interim the the acting NASA administrator last year uh transportation secretary Duffy had noted that the uh that Starship and SpaceX had come to NASA in the m you know in the in the late summer or early fall last year and told them that they were they weren't going to be ready until uh either mid 28 8 or late 28. And so, you know, just as we would ask the same, we would ask the question of Orion and SLS, how are they going to go faster?
Um, and they certainly have their challenges. So, again, we're looking at the third core. We're looking at the the largest piece of the core stage by size, not necessarily perhaps the most complicated elements, but they're going to have they're going to be challenged to finish the fourth one in the in the state that it's that that we saw it in a week ago. And then similarly for the fifth one, um, you know, Boeing and I, one of the one of the Boeing officials that that I that I spoke with, um, said something to the effect of, "We got to get going on the fifth one." So, they have their challenges, but, uh, you know, definitely have to wonder how. So, you know, again, they're so Boeing's trying to speed up their production schedule and their work schedule um to to get to to deliver um to finish this one that we're looking at that's that's mostly completed, but but still significantly not completed um and two more in basically the next two years. So, like we would need to see the fifth one. We'd see need need to see the fifth one of these even this at reaching this point I would imagine in probably less than two years from now.
Certainly by the by the beginning of 28 you'd need to have the fifth one ready you know ready to stack or close. Um, but HLS, if I if Starship was talking about the end of 28, um, is the acceleration plan that they're that that's rumored for them enough of an acceleration, you know, and again, they again, they still have uh they have all of their demos to do. Um, we're waiting for the first version 3 launch.
for Blue Origin. We're waiting for their first uh cargo uncrrewed cargo lunar lander to fly and then you know they now have some additional investigation work to do on their on their new launcher.
So there's yeah there's a lot of questions about if those if if if they were reporting that they were that their schedules were 2028 for you know last year and you're now throwing in you're now asking both of them to fly an make an an additional prototype to support this earth orbit test flight rendevu and docking test flight next here. So, you're asking them to do more work and get it done faster.
Um, and to be fair, they're, you know, NASA's asking all of the programs to do that. But, um, the answers or the or the the status or the evaluation is going to be different for both. And again, to be fair to HLS, uh, you know, these these, uh, legacy programs, if you want to call them that, have have had a much longer time to to get to this point, uh, than than HLS has.
So it's, you know, it's it's but it is definitely going to be is definitely going to be one of the uh there's just a lot of questions about um about what happens now. Uh and why, you know, it's sort of it's sort of a question of why. So if it was delayed that fast, you know, uh it it almost begs the question about why call it mid 2027 two months ago.
But again, as Anthony sort of, you know, Anony's question, I think I would almost take from Anony's question. It's like, well, how how realistic? I don't think early 2028 is realistic for Artemis 4. if you're talking about Artemis 3 in uh 20 in in late 2027.
But again, we're missing that we're missing that context. So again, if you're just looking so for Orion and SLS or maybe it's exploration ground systems. So maybe, you know, um if if if they're if if the third vehicle is sidelined, the third Orion SLS vehicle is sidelined and and um stuck waiting for HLS next year. um they can certainly continue to build the fourth vehicles that the the parts of the fourth vehicle that need to be finished, but um you're it's it's still going to be I I mean again I I don't I don't I would be I I would I don't know how else to put it, but impossible to turn uh to turn around to go from turning around a vehicle in a year to fly. So let's let's say if you you know they're they are challenging Orion and SLS and EGS as programs to turn around because they have all of this additional analysis post-flight analysis to turn around um for the Johnson Space Center to train a crew in in essentially a year. They're challenged to fly Artemis 3, you know, this time next year.
Um, but maybe they could, you know, maybe that might be somewhat realistic, but then asking them to turn around and fly Artemis 4 months after, maybe at at most six months after. So again, I you know, you're you're already stretching things to call if you call October 2027 late 2027 and April 2028 early 2028, you're still only talking about 6 months to turn around.
And uh so is it, you know, is it just near impossible or is it impossible?
But I mean, I really the the the questions are, you know, I mean, I it's hard not to it's hard not to hear that and go, well, let me see the schedule. Let's, you know, that's always been the case. Um the the the the ultimate goal dates are uh they they they don't really tell you much of anything. We that's all we've had for the last 5 years is or really yeah last 5 years because the the HLS date even though the the the political date was set in March 2019. I mean, they were still talking about end of 2024 landing date when um SpaceX got the Starship the lunar lander contract. It was bas basically about 5 years ago.
So, I don't I mean the only the the only be because I mean and it's it's hard not to it's hard not to to say that those those ultimate launch dates, official launch dates because there are quote unquote official um even though that's still vague as blank. um that they are that they're those are political dates as well and so that I don't you could call them aspirational as you could also call them aspirational but the point is they don't really tell you much you really need to see that's why you need to see you need to see the status of hardware like we see right now so we have this is to some extent self-evident where Boeing is in terms of finishing this stage um for a number of reasons. One of them being we can see the hardware. We can see the state of of the uh exterior of it and the outfitting of it around the circumference of the stage.
We're missing a little bit on the engine section. Um but we would get to see that from uh from a uh a breakover to vertical. I think that would that would be somewhat self-evident in terms of timeline. And then obviously again we have the context of we've seen them do this twice before. So we we have we have much better idea about the context for for these builds. And um even if you were to say they were going to take the same amount of time to do that, that's still uh more information to work off of. Um similarly for Orion and the problem is for uh HLS we have none of that and so we we don't have any information and again also on top of that for SLS and Orion we've asked for milestone dates as and as I was noting in the last video on Sunday um we asked for dates and they at least gave us some time frames you know so they said uh uh they would you know and we've asked uh leadership in the programs we've asked public affairs. So we're asking leadership on the programs through public affairs or directly in news conferences.
And so they're talking about um ar uh mating the Orion crew and service modules together in the summer and delivering and we got a little white balance there. live live white balance.
Uh oh, it's still working live white balance. But um that they were we've we've heard that they're they're planning to start stacking the SLS boosters in the summer, that they're going to be doing the final mate of Orion, the final major mate of the Orion spacecraft in the summer, and that they're planning to have this core stage done by the end of the year and Orion done in that same time frame.
and that they're planning to have this mated to the boosters by the end of this year. And we don't we just don't have any of that for uh and again the the additional point on top of that is that you know we still have the better part of a year and a half until quote unquote mid2027 is over. And so as as as we're now hearing the date change in two months, we we would need to we would need regular updates. So if even if they gave us an update today, which would be much appreciated and valuable and provided a significant amount depending on how detailed it is. we would need more updates, not necessarily weekly updates, even though I would say internally the program is getting probably certainly getting weekly updates on all the elements.
I would say at the very least we would need to get to get a a decent idea about how things are going.
quarterly updates. So, you know, if they decided not to start those until the end of this quarter, which would be basically, you know, end of June, mid year, but I mean, you know, we would need to have something we would need to have a better sense. I think quarterly updates would be a bare minimum to get a realistic sense or a a reasonable sense of progress, but I don't expect that.
And to be fair to SLS and Orion, I bug I bug the programs. I mean, you can you can ask Kennedy Space Center public affairs for sure, if not everybody.
Like, I'm constantly bugging them.
Certainly on a weekly basis. Um, the more information you get, the less frequently you need to bug them. But um you know again it's just my opinion they could they could all do better but to be fair Orion and SLS they you know they are public programs still so they do have some obligation and whereas HLS has no obligation. Um they're they're completely private programs. Really the only public part of of HLS is the money and and again it's there the public is only partially investing in the lunar landers. But but um SpaceX and Blue Origin aren't doing anything wrong. It's just that we're talking about um private products that are being used to accomplish a national goal. And so I think the interest the interest is in whe is in these national goals. So Artemis 3, Artemis 4, Artemis 5, those are all national goals and the schedule for them are national goals.
So yeah, the interest certainly if you're talking about like for instance the SpaceX IPO, yeah, then there's a lot there's certainly some business interest in it, but you know whether China beats the US um or not uh people are going to be interested in in SpaceX regardless and beyond, you know, whatever happens by the end of this decade or the early next decade, you you know, if you're an investor or looking to be an investor in in in SpaceX as a public company, um, of course, they will have additional disclosure requirements once they become a public company.
And so there's yeah there's but it is it's it is a big it is a big question.
And so one of the actually um speaking of that and I need to take a look and see I'm going to I'm going to um I'm going to pause here or or um but the that Senate I believe that Senate hearing is going to begin here in the next couple of minutes. So, I'm going to uh I'm going to take a short break and see if I can find a way to record that. So, uh just a moment.
Well, I think unfortunately I'll just have to go back and watch that. It is available there. I don't I don't see a YouTube stream for that or at least an official YouTube stream for the the Senate CJS subcommittee, but but there is there is a a stream on the on the the hearing page from the committee itself.
So, but I will have to go back and uh and and watch that um later today. But as we can see, so they've finished three-point turn. They're, you know, they're getting this done. Um again, they should be able to now. I' I'd say they they should be inside the the VAB here in the next hour or so, if not sooner.
But this is a nice shot. And you can see the the uh Oh, actually, I can hear the I can hear the the hearing the hearing in the background. I'm going to go ahead and close that for now. Senator Moran is the opening the hearing right now. I'm I'm just going to go ahead. I'm gonna have to watch that later. Um, but you can see again you can see the you can see the the the the segments of of one of the liquid and oxygen feed lines here. And those will run those will actually run out all the way out to from out to here. They'll actually run from sort of the midpoint of the inner tank all the way down into the engine section. And so you can see there are still a couple of segments. Um there are the the the feed lines themselves run from the bottom of the liquid oxygen tank from the sump um through the inner tank. So, there are S ducts that are already installed in the inner tank, but then they'll they'll have to they'll have to there's a segment that runs from this interface here um in the inner tank out.
And then so this is the top side. This is the the the plus Z side. This is where the the the tail service mast umbilicals are for the the engine section. Um, and then this is the minus Z side which faces the umbilical tower and that's where all of the um the the the systems tunnel, the repressurization lines, the other liquid oxygen feed line is.
And so one of the things that might be that's a maybe a little bit more difficult or is again something that you don't necessarily notice but uh this is the first build that does not have the uh development flight instrumentation sensor islands on the exterior of the stage. So those circles that you saw there most of them were on the back side of the stage but they use those to you know to to collect uh aerodynamic data um pressures temperatures accelerations and so there's less uh DFI instrumentation on this on this stage um which from a production standpoint point probably reduces a little bit of the time involved in doing all of the all of the uh all of the wiring splices and all of the all of the testing that's required to to verify all the different thousands of channels of um of instrumentation that all of the DFI works. So you're it's more focused now on operational flight instrumentation, but there still may be some, but they're not they're not doing the aerodynamic data on this on this build.
It looks like they're crossing. What is that? Is that um Saturn Causeway?
But that's uh but yeah, you can see and you can see some uh you can see some folks over there. This is the the launch the the launch control center over here.
And this is pad 39B where the that rocket will be going eventually.
Um, one of the things that public affairs told me, uh, when I was asking about mobile launcher one, uh, because they rolled it back so quickly, um, only two weeks after the launch, there was some testing that that that I'd heard they were planning to do while they were still out out at the pad. There was also some um again I was talking to some folks pre-launch but they were talking about depending on the level of damage that they there were some hot work repairs and welding repairs that they would that they were at least thinking they were going to need to do outside.
But um what public affairs said was that they could do they could do some of that um and that the damage the the damage was um much less than on Artemis one because of all the hardening they did and all the which allowed all the washdowns to be done. And so um they can do they can do some welding. Obviously, you're not going to do that um after the boosters are stacked, but they can do that before. Um but one of the other things that they mentioned was a tanking test for Artemis 3. And so, uh, that I thought was interesting because I don't know that they were necessarily planning on doing a tanking test, but those plans have changed a lot since Artemis 3 used to be a lunar landing mission. And uh but I think now that we are talking about now that we're talking about a possible delay to Artemis 3 already um and if that the if the lunar landers really aren't going to be ready until late 2027, then they may have more time to do a tanking test.
And of course, if they're if this was going to be a low Earth orbit mission and they were going to use a spacer and not use ICPS, then then you have to start to wonder whether or not they could just roll out something uh on top of the core stage and boosters or whether they could roll out just the core stage and boosters and do a tanking test. and when when they would be capable of doing that. If if they could have the core stage and the booster stacked um by the end of the year, then maybe maybe they could uh maybe they could do something early next year. But again, that might be a little bit that might be faster than faster than possible, but also maybe faster than necessary.
So, interestingly over here on the left edge of the screen, I believe that is the rotation building of the RPSF, the rotation processing and surge facility.
I believe that's the rotation building, although it may be one of the surge buildings. But if that's the rotation building, that is where the two aft segments of the solid rocket boosters are being offloaded and installed in the buildup stands. And so those will be the two things that are stacked on mobile launcher one first.
But the core stage is going to be in the other is going to be in high bay 2 where they will be finishing up final assembly and that is still planned to take the better part of the rest of the year to finish.
But if they had time to do some testing of uh tail service mast umbilicals, you know, they might want they would they may have time to do some of that.
And the uh I'm wondering like again I see some it's again it's let me I'm I'm I'm going to take a quick peek here now. I I I'm I'm not I thought maybe I was seeing I I see some like lighter colors or whiter colors right to the left here. But I don't that that's not that's too big to be one of the rail cars. Um I think but anyway um but you can see the uh the the the four fifths with the engine section uh engine section simulator engine section transportation adapter artist formerly known as the engine section structural test article.
Um, oh, okay. That what that might be is that actually might be it is it's OPF is it OPF that's oh no that's well artist formerly known as OPF3. So that's what I'm seeing is you're seeing the you're seeing the old orbiter processing facilities. I think it's now called the C3PF and of course I'm spacing on the what that commercial something something processing facility. Um but you can see so you can see that over here. Uh this used to be the old the uh the uh shuttle era SSME engine shop was adjacent to that.
And then behind that across the crawler way is the rotation building of the RPSF.
And this is the low bay of the of the uh vehicle assembly building. Highway 2 is actually would be right behind the inside behind the the the American flag.
This is would this is highway one on the inside behind the NAS logo. And then behind them you have on the west side you would have in the northwest corner would be highay 4 which is an SLS hardware preparation sort of pre-stacking stacking preps area.
And then northeast cornerish because this is not I I don't believe this is aligned directly northsoutheast west but more or less uh northeast corner is highway 3 which is where mobile launcher one is which is where they will eventually stack the entire Artemis 3 vehicle.
But this is going you know this is going I think mostly to schedule and you know then it's like again really again this is a this is a trans these are transportation milestones that are sort of inserted into the overall build schedule because this is the first build that that uh that moved all of the engine section outfitting work to Kennedy Space Center. And then now this is the first time that they're going to be doing core stage final assembly in at Kennedy Space Center in the vehicle assembly building. And so what will uh what will what will happen next is they will when they're ready and then I think that's why I was talking about the the the major join milestone being really the bigger date in terms of the overall build schedule. They inserted this transportation because they split the production. But the the next major milestone for that build is actual the actual mate of the top four fists with the real engine section in highway 2. So what they'll do for that is they will they'll break they'll break the stage over. You know they'll attach two cranes to the to the stage. So they'll stick they will be sticking the lift spider on the forward on the on the forward skirt flange.
And then they will be attaching the trailing crane. I think it's the one of the 325 ton cranes on the will be attached to lift spider and then the the the 175 ton crane will be attached to um they will install uh brackets on the on the engine section.
To do that, they'll break it over to vertical. uh they'll they'll detach the trailing crane and then the 325 ton crane will lift it up and over into highway 2 and then it will be it will remain suspended there while Boeing disconnects the the this engine section transportation adapter.
Um, and then they'll they'll do the final preps and then they'll lift the four-fifths up into the core stage vertical integration center. And then, um, Boeing will bolt the aft LH2 tank flange to the flange on the engine section. It only has the one at on the forward end. And then that will be and and that's really the milestone, the build milestone.
And then they have a lot of outfitting to do.
They will uh some of the preps for engine installation they can do because the engine section is already in place and so they already have a lot of the access equipment. you know there there are platforms inside the engine section during integration and so they'll have to remove they'll have to remove the upper level of those platforms in order you know to the the aft dome of the LH2 tank sits completely inside the volume of the engine section and so there's uh there is uh that will have to be cleared as a part of our preps for doing that final major join and and you know stacking the four fifths on top for the engine section, but then they will go through they'll they will start making all the connections.
They will then they will bring in the engines. And so that'll be something we'll be looking for in terms of sort of readiness for the engines or readiness of the stage to receive the engines because the engines are ready for install right now. It's just that they're still at Stenis. And it may be that they it's just um L3 Harris is the prime contractor for the engines. I think they do have some staffing in Florida, but I think you know most of the work on the engines is done elsewhere. So they a lot of production is done out here on the west coast in the Los Angeles area of the components.
Final assembly of the engines is done at the Stennis Space Center in southern Mississippi. It's actually not that far away from Machute assembly facility in New Orleans.
So that may be part of the equation which is uh they don't want they probably don't want folks on travel on travel budgets and maybe I don't know of how many of those folks want to be there but they it may be that they they they ship the engines a lot closer to installation time than they did for uh when when that was done in New Orleans because again you know um one of the things so when I was visiting New Orleans Last week, the hotel I was staying in was actually closer to Stenis than to Mishude. Um, they're they're they're probably less than an hour drive, assuming you didn't have to worry about traffic away. So, the folks that live that work on uh the engines could probably live and possibly do uh in the New Orleans the greater New Orleans metro area.
So you can ship those over to to MAF and you don't have to dislocate or relocate your your engine personnel necessarily, but when when they when they come here for testing or installation in this case, they'll the you know that there's that consideration that also has to be um accounted for.
But that will be that will be another again depending on obviously if we get some information on you know get some pictures and visuals on when those when those uh when the engines are are arrive at KSC that'll give us a sense of okay they're getting they've reached they've gotten far enough into final assembly that they're ready to do the engine installs and then there's once the engines are installed they will they will be getting set up to do the final integrated functional test of the whole stage. And that's really that's really setting the stage for um completion of the stage and then handing it over to expiration ground systems and which is somewhat of a figurative thing.
But when we get all the way out to there at some point towards you know at some point in the second half of the year um they will have to do one of these uh double crane moves again. And so what it sounded like when I was asking about that was when the stage is ready, you'll you'll see the same thing that we saw with the core stage two um which is that they shipped core stage two early enough and that uh they were able to fit check and do some evaluation of that unit in the highway 2 facility, the new tool.
um and actually ended up having some maintenance servicing and maintenance work that they needed to do on the stage at the time. They were able to do it in that and then when they were ready to stack it, the the stage was uh was lifted out of the tool and was rotated back to vertical because the cranes can't reach from high bay 2 sort of caddy corner or diagonally across the transfer aisle. So you have to actually uh lift lift the stage out of the you could move if if the integration cell was in highway 1, you could do the you you could transfer the stage across o over the top of the transfer aisle from high bay 2 to highway 1, but you can't do that for from high bay 2 to highay 3.
So it's it's it it probably takes, you know, an extra week's worth of time. But they'll they'll take it out of the tool.
They'll lay it down flat again on this on this uh on these carriers. And so I believe these carriers will have to stay in Florida at least for that. So that's one of those other side questions which is um I don't know if those can be shipped on the ground, but the engine se this engine section simulator um will have to go back to New Orleans and it probably has to go back on Pegasus. And so that's again one of those other questions is is Pegasus also has or or Boeing has some additional hardware that they're going to eventually need to trans transport um from New Orleans to Kennedy. And then this again this hardware will all of this hardware will eventually need to get back to New Orleans for the next one. Although again, plenty of time to do that. But um that when they get ready to stack this when it's completed, they'll lay it back down on this temporarily. And then the the SPMTs will just like they did about a year ago um for Artemis 2, they'll they'll pick up they'll pick up the the stage and roll it um adjacent to Hibbase 4 and three. And then uh a a second 325 ton crane will be used with the with the transfer ale 175 ton crane to then once again break it over from horizontal to vertical and then it'll be lifted into highay 3 to be mated to the boosters.
So Steve was asking, is there a reason why some of the plumbing and some of the the external outfitting is is done in the VAB? Some of it some of it probably has to do with you just have to pick a point in you have to pick a point in production where you know you have to decide can we ship it and defer some of that work. Um I think you know some of the detailing work on the exterior in specifically if not internally is optional in terms of this has to be done before we get uh before we ship it from New Orleans to Florida or this this um this this this is optional like we can we can do this in Florida we could do it in New Orleans if we have time to do it before we ship we can do it in New Orleans. If not, we'll ship it and finish it in Florida.
One of the things I'm I would I would suspect that they would have to um that they would that they had to do. Oh, and speaking of those contingency pad access platforms, there's I think one of them, the the red coloring, it took me a while, but I just noticed that. But um those have been parked outside for a while if I recall correctly. But um the systems tunnel is uh there's a tool in New Orleans that attaches the systems tunnel in a horizontal configuration to the uh to different different segments of the systems tunnel, the base plates.
So, those are there's a tool where they where they uh set up the base plates and connect them up and they they uh they set up the wiring harnesses on those um before they're then uh laid out um and and um and spread out in the stage and in the in the systems tunnel. But and and then there's a tool that picks that whole assembly up and rolls it in underneath the stage and then raises it up onto the exterior so that it can be bolted to the you know there are there are there are um bolts that go uh onto the metallic structure itself.
And so that probably the the base plates themselves have to be attached by that tool I believe. I don't know that they have any way of doing they may have a way of doing um individual perhaps one or two of those in the vertical maybe by hand but I don't know but I'm not so sure about that but there it is it's there's sort of a I think there's it's more of a there isn't that sort of a black and white line about what needs to happen. Some things need to need to be done in New Orleans. Um but some of these things that they've left like the the uh the remaining liquid oxygen feed lines uh can can be uh attached in obviously in the vertical in high 2.
And so other things like again the the foam closeouts on the inside or the outside they obviously on the inside there are things that they would have had to do they've had to do at Kennedy Space Center um going back to the first vehicle. So they've always had the capability to do certainly the internal there are there's uh foam that is hands you know that is sprayed manually. There are uh molds for for uh for pouring.
There's there's uh pore foam that's poured into molds like around these uh uh these uh like valve uh valve assemblies that are that have these uh funky geometries.
So those those types of things they they've been doing in inside the stage inside the engine section and the and the inner tank for for the first two builds. And so they'll they can continue to do that now.
Um the only place Well, that's actually it's an interesting question about storing uh where they would store if if they could store uh Starship hardware in the VAB. I assuming that some sort of an agreement could be worked out. Uh they they they may be able to store the only two places that they would be able to store it would be highay one and highay 4 perhaps. It really just depends on what what requirements SpaceX has in terms of storage. Um but you know yeah it's again without without knowing a lot more about what's required and what exactly uh you know benefits cost benefits um how much that gets in the way of if you're excel if you're trying to accelerate the SLS cadence and stacking and in vehicle integration schedule um is one interfering with the other and vice versa. So is I don't know whether again I I don't know whether are there what are the advantages to to one of the parties or both of them and what are the disadvantages to to to both of them for that.
But I think right now uh yeah so right now high bay 1 is being used to store some equipment but it's not very it's not particularly large equipment So, at this point there there there will be a little bit more work. I don't know exactly when we're going to lose this feed, but there will be a little bit more time once they get through the doorway, so to speak, and uh and closed in. And then the SPMTS they um trying to remember what the name of the they they have these they put they usually put I-beams down on the floor in the VAB um that the SPMTS will will lower the uh those those uh carriers that are that that the stage is is sitting in or lying in depending on your analogy.
uh and it'll lower those down onto those high beams. And then the SPMTS, the SPMTs wouldn't need to be used again really in theory wouldn't need to be used again until they're ready to stack the core stage sometime in theory also in theory later this year. But they'll just leave the stage there on those I beams if they needed. you know, the SPMTs will give them give them the option of repositioning it if they need to, but for right now, for the in the next couple of hours, I would assume that they're going to uh they will uh they will roll over those I-beams, position this the the carriers over those I beams, and then lower them lower it down onto them.
And so, yeah, that's correct. At at some point Steve's talking about highway 4 never stacked a rocket. I believe that's correct. Um certainly not in shuttle. Um by the time that shuttle started, Highway 4 was being used as a a stacking support stacking prep facility. That was where uh the the rail the rail heads actually used to run into both highay 2 and high 4 if I recall correctly. And so they used to re the uh their the rotation processing and surge facility did not exist um at the beginning of the 1980s. And so the idea again under with with that high with with that high of a cadence um goal. They just planned on you know they just planned on rolling those into into high 4 and doing the the booster buildups in there and then lifting them up and and in. And so the the other eight segments for the Artemis 3 booster set are still in Utah.
Um really they don't have that much work to do in in you know in what'll what'll what those ones will just will just be offloaded from the rail cars rotated to vertical. They'll they'll do they'll do receiving inspections and then they'll go on pallets. Um, I mean in theory you could do that one by one and just take them off the, you know, take them off the uh rather than that they would still have to go on a on a transportation pallet, but rather than rolling them into a into a storage into the into one of the surge buildings for storage. In theory, you could go back to that shuttle concept, so to speak, which is um you could rotate, you could uh put them on a transportation pallet and then just roll them right into VAB highway 4 and then get and then stack them. Um or I, you know, I suppose you could do something. You could even go farther with that. And um but the rail heads I don't believe go into high B4 anymore.
And so Hi1 in theory you could you could do that.
And in fact there was I believe there was an was an agreement but I don't know that they ever actually signed the contract for it. And so I think again there was an agreement for SpaceX to to rent or lease the highway 1 space at some point. But as is noted in as is noted in in the the the chat highway one and that this goes back to minimal infrastructure for SLS.
Um and the politics going back 15 years or more. But Hibay1 was used was one of the shuttle integration cells. Hibay 3 and highay 1.
They used to stack shuttle vehicles in both of them um with and they had permanent platforms in both uh both of them and when when they were transitioning to constellation highay 3 was converted was initially converted and I think they'd planned on converting highay one for the other for you know Aries 5 or both bays to be capable of stacking uh one or the other. But when Constellation was cancelled, um all of that those infrastructure plans were also killed. And so Highwayay 1 basically uh basically was is a leftover from from shuttle.
They they've it's never been renovated.
So you have rusting out shuttle uh stacking platforms and as noted in in the in in the chat it's basically a uh a shuttle stacking museum um minus a mobile launcher platform but uh that um it is not ready to support anything except accept storage. It might be able to stack or or might be able to accept a, you know, star starship hardware that's just essentially sitting on the floor. Um, but it you could not stack an SLS vehicle in there and it would cost um considering that the money if it was really that cheap to to renovate the cell, remove the platforms, and and use it even as a hurricane shelter. Um, it's apparently too expensive for the government because they've never nobody's ever um been willing to to do that. So, it just sits there. It basically it's basically um rusting.
It's been rusting for the last 15 years.
And I don't know that there I mean I imagine that they they have to they have to they have to check it every once in a while. And I guess as long as it's safe enough to let it continue to rust um and it's not you know it's not a safety issue for the rest of the for for rest of the operations.
Um there it's it's it's but really again it's there isn't enough money in in the budget to put it to use. And so the again that's why and and that's what I think was perhaps the hope was um SpaceX has would would have had the money I think to renovate that cell but again there's probably there are probably there are probably issues in terms of interference back and forth. So, I would imagine that if anything, uh, SpaceX because SpaceX works at a at a is working at a faster pace that they they probably would have felt like I think one of the one of the notional contract stipulations was that uh, SLS activities would take precedent over any any renter of Highway 1. So they would have to stop whenever SLS needed that, needed that. And so I that that may have been one of the reasons along with the fact that SpaceX is is building a much more purpose-built facility, if not multiple facilities on other parts of the Kennedy Space Center grounds. So the there's the first at least the first gigabay that's going up on um adjacent to Kennedy adjacent to Kennedy Parkway.
And so, uh, I think the one of the one of the questions would be today whether or not SpaceX has any desire to use the vehicle assembly building. Is there any value to them at all? Um, and does that outweigh the drawbacks.
All right. So, I'm going to take uh I'll be I'll be back in a second. I'm I'm assuming this will there this is going to be going for a few more minutes, but they're getting ready to roll it into the southern end of the VAB transfer aisle right now. But I'll be back in a couple minutes. I'm just going to stand up and get some coffee.
Okay. So, it's possible that they're waiting.
They're they're coordinating with the folks inside the VAB to make sure that they're ready.
Let's see. So, Steve's asking, "When they lift the core stage up and over into into the highway, does it stay vertical or is it too tall and has to be tilted?" uh for uh no it they can it they can uh it it can stay vertical. So they they the they would have to use two cranes to keep it tilted and they uh I don't think the cranes work that way. So yeah, they they there's a limit to the the dimensions of the the the diaphragm so to speak. Um there's a there's basically an opening in the structure of the VAB into each of the in into each of the high bays. And so the core stage is short enough so that it can be a single crane can um it it can pass through that that opening what they did for the shuttle. And so those openings I think again were uh well they would have been designed for uh Saturn 5.
And so for shuttle the width the the the wingspan of the orbiters was such that the orbiters were rotated. They were twisted so to speak so that they were angled so that the that the orbiter could get through from a width standpoint as opposed to a height standpoint.
And we saw that sequence because the the core stage vertical integration center um trying to remember it. It was activated they finished construction of it in 2024. It was activated um at the end of 2024. And so core stage two was delivered to Kennedy Space Center again in in more or less a complete it was more or less completed uh in New Orleans in uh middle of 2024.
It was shipped to Kennedy Space Center in July of 2024 and then it stayed it stayed uh in the transfer aisle for um for quite quite some time. But then in December it was moved into it was moved into the the core stage vertical integration center in highay 2.
So they uh they lifted it up rotated it from horizontal to vertical and and lifted it into high bay 2 and then it stayed there for a few months. It was lifted out of high bay 2 at the end of March or was it the middle of March? I think it was the middle of March, they they laid it back down on on this transportation on these transportation carriers.
And then then and and then a couple of days later, it was picked up again in front of Highway 3 and lifted up into lifted up into Highway 3 and mated lowered down in between the boosters and made it to them.
and we'll see that again.
The hope obviously is that we'll see that again um later this year Hard to tell if they're moving. I guess maybe they are moving very slowly. It does look like they're nosing into nosing through the doorway, so to speak.
And so that's really going to be the next the the the again just my opinion bigger milestone is when they when they pick this stage sub assembly off the hardware and and made it to the engine section.
That's that's really the the the major build milestone, the next major build milestone. And the question is when when are they going to do that?
We won't necessarily see that live, but hopefully we will we'll see it within a handful of days afterwards.
It's kind of hard to believe that it's still April. So, this has been this has been a uh there's been quite a few.
Okay, that's funny. So, I'm I'm I' I've got I'm I'm peeking over at the NSF NASA spaceflight live stream.
So, I I can see uh I can see some familiar public affairs faces they're posing with. It looks like they have a a uh what's the name of the mat of the of the uh the zero G indicator for they're posing with several of them are posing with the they have a mascot sized thing.
I imagine you'll see some uh you'll see some of those pictures.
on on the NASA on the NA on NASA NASA.gov at some point.
But it is uh it is pretty interesting.
It's like not quite but but just a little bit a little bit less than four weeks ago.
Uh Artemis 2.
So four weeks ago today we were on the eve of Artemis 2. And so in in this month, we've seen Artemis 2 completed and have gotten several milestones for Artemis 3 preparations with the with the solid rocket boosters with at with the two the first two solid rocket booster segments shipped to Kennedy Space Center because they have more work to do on them than the other eight to get them ready to stack. And now we're seeing all of the core stage. So this is the other this is the the the the balance of the core stage hardware aside from some of the detailing on the outside. But now the all of the core stage hardware is at the Kennedy Space Center and is is being moved into the vehicle assembly building. And um again on a technicality so the the RS25 engines are considered uh are are essentially managed in a separate office. So they're actually there there's an engines there's a liquid engines office. There's a booster office and there's a stages office inside the program.
Even though they are technically called among other things core stage engines, but the stage all of the stage hardware that that Boeing manages is soon to be completely in the vehicle assembly building at least for the Artemis 3 build for Artemis for the Artemis four core stage build there's that's you know now that now that all of this hardware is in Florida there Boeing is still going to have to work on the core stage 4 engine section which is also in the vehicle assembly building that we're looking at so they have to continue to outfit that element and then in New Orleans the forward skirt and the inner tank were ready for application of their spray-on foam insulation on the exterior.
So once that's once they do that, then they will they will be set up in integration stands for their internal outfitting.
And then the liquid hydrogen tank, all of the liquid hydrogen tank welding is complete. So the the the tank uh the the all of the barrels and domes for the tank, all the friction stir welding for of the major structures was completed last fall. I believe it was in November. And then since then they have to do plug welds for where the where the the pin the friction stir welding pin goes into the barrels and the domes to to do the to do that type of weld. that it leaves a uh it leaves a hole. It leaves a hole for each of those circumferential welds where the pin is inserted in and then is removed. So, they did they they've finished the plug welds. They've done the the uh non-destructive evaluations, the ultrasonic testing, um X-ray I think they do X-rays as well, but they do it they they they inspect all the welds around the entire circumference and then they inspect the plug welds. They do that. They do that once and assuming it passes those, which it has, then the LH2 tank will go out to the proh proof test building and they will do a they will do a a dynamic proof pressure test on that where they'll pressurize the tank and and then they they will impart loads on the tank on one end and assuming that it passes that test, it'll come back to that's done out in a sep separate building um for safety reasons and then it'll come back into the main production area and they will then get that tank ready for its uh thermal protection system applications. So it'll get it'll first get a full coat of primer and then it'll get its Sophie its spray-on foam insulation. The liquid oxygen tank is the last element. They were finishing up the final weld in in that in the big tank welding tool, the the vertical assembly center in New Orleans. Um that had been uh they had they had to stop for a week because they were finishing up this four-fifths assembly for the third core stage. And so then that's been gone for a week. I would assume that they assuming everything was ready that they would have uh gotten into that trying to trying to uh get set up to do that weld here.
Once that's done, then that tank will go through a similar uh set of jobs. So, plug welds, they'll do uh ND inspections of the welds, then it'll go through proof test and both tanks will then the welds will then be reinspected to compare before and after proof test just to validate that that the welds are still good.
And then the tanks will go through they'll get a primer coat and then a uh foam uh foam application.
There will be internal there there will be there will be some internal outfitting of things like uh liquid level sensors, the sump on the liquid oxygen tank, vent valves and and other equipment like that. instrumentation and then eventually it'll go through the same final assembly methods that that the third build just went through. So they'll do the forward join with the inner tank, liquid oxygen tank and forward skirt and then the liquid hydrogen tank. By that time the liquid hydrogen tank will be stacked on the on that engine section simulator we see going through the door of the VAB right now. So, that'll have to go back to uh this is still a while away, but under this increased cadence, um Boeing is going to need to have that fourth build done relatively soon.
How these how this latest schedule wrinkle or whatever you want to call it, delay is uh um factors into all of this, you know, I think is to be determined. It would be for for whichever elements.
I think obviously leadership is going to want is going to want the different programs to continue to work as as expeditiously as possible. And so it would be a good problem for the overall Artemis uh portfolio to have more of the SLS and Orion hardware since they've been, you know, at this for much longer than the Lunar Landers to have more inventory. It would be it would be hard to say they're hardware rich, but it would certainly be it would certainly be in a better position than than they are right now.
if they actually had uh full SLS vehicles in storage ready more or less ready to stack before those missions. um that would be that has some that has some value overall but it doesn't again since all of these programs are more or less independent of each other and certainly Orion production is independent of SLS production and those two are independent of the lunar landers and the space suits um there really isn't the status of one of those programs doesn't affect production of the others or overall status of the others or readiness of the others. It's just that if you if you operate on the assumption that Artemis 3 requires lunar landers that it requires one or both of the lunar landers, then it isn't enough for Orion and SLS to be uh for the for to to have hardware ready to go to ready to fly Artemis 3. You need to have lunar lander hardware ready to fly Artemis 3 as well.
And so there's Teddy. It's it's it's breakfast f breakfast time for Teddy. So I'm uh I'm going to take a few minutes break here to uh to help to help.
He unfortunately also has to have insulin and so uh it's not quite as easy. That's a more of a twoperson job.
So, I'll be back in a few minutes here and we'll kind of wrap up the uh offload of the core stage as it's practically all the way into the VAB at this point almost. But I'll be back in a few minutes.
Okay. Well, it looks like uh looks like the the core stage top four fifths the the core stage three top four fifths for Artemis 3 as well is now looks like completely inside uh the vehicle assembly building transfer aisle. They'll still be working to to set it down on uh I've I've I've uh I'll have to go look up what the what the terminology is, but there the there's there are these essentially I beams that it'll be that they'll rest that the the SPMTs will pardon me lower it down onto. But that was a uh let's see oh about 3 hours.
Of course, they've been working they've been working since before since before daybreak.
And in fact, they've been they were, you know, they took they they took the evening off, but a lot of work once the barge arrived yesterday afternoon and they, you know, beginning to unpack and get ready to do this offload this morning. But it started more or less on at the time that we were told, which was around 8:00 a.m.
Eastern. And so couple of hours later, it's now inside the VAB transfer aisle.
And so the next next thing we'll be looking for and we don't know exactly know the time frame is for it to be rotated to vertical lifted into highay 2 and then eventually mated to the real engine section which is already in Boeing's vertical integration center tool in there.
But um I'll go ahead and at least uh head into head towards wrapping up the stream here. I don't know that we're going to see whole a whole heck of a lot. And I would imagine NASA's going to cut this stream here relatively soon unless I don't think we're going to get any live shots from inside the transfer aisle. So I'll just if if anybody has any remaining questions. Um, I mean I guess in some in some respects if not all respects or some of this is overshadowed I think by again I this the the announcement or whatever it was. It was made somewhat in passing yesterday by uh NASA administrator Jared Isaacman that Aremis 3 is now that the lunar landers for Artemis 3 have said they could be ready. I can't remember if he said no earlier than late 2027, but that would be a delay. Um especially if that's all we're going to get. Again, it begs the question It it begs more details and more context, but without an any additional context, a delay already only two months after a mid2027 date was announced overshadows this to some degree. And so, it's going to be interesting to it's going to be interesting to see if we get any clarification, any any additional context or not. So, So Trevor, so that's that's a Trevor's asking about the engines. So, um, again, just talking about I think, uh, there's going to be a lot of focus on dates for Artemis 3 at this point, and the core stage build and the Orion build are, um, factors in that, but I think they're they're on they're on another schedule.
I I you know, again, based on the fact that they've done these builds before and that they've picked up the pace, it does it it they at least seemed like they had a shot at supporting mid2027.
And if you're going to start stacking SLS in the summertime, you know, they they would be, you know, that that would be stacking SLS in the summertime would be pointing towards a mid 2027 launch date. So maybe they will delay that now too. Um, it it does beg the question if if late 2027 is the earliest you can fly that now, why you would start stacking boosters unless again unless it gets back it it just opens up it it it probably were probably going to open up this can of worms at some point. I just didn't expect it to be this quickly that that the uh that the ambitious schedule for Artemis 3, four, and five would would be torpedoed this quickly. But if it really is if you're really delaying Artemis 3 to late 2027, um, you know, that's that's that's uh it it just opens up that can of worms immediately. But in terms of what happens next for the it in terms of what happens next for the core stage, so Trevor was asking about the engine. So the the the the overall outline of the sequence for the core stage build from here is the engine section is inside the vertical integration center tool in highway 2 right now. So it's set up supposedly it's ready for this mate.
They will when when it's ready and when the top four fifths are ready, they'll pick up they'll pick up the stage, rotate it to vertical in the transfer aisle, they'll lift it up and over into high bay 2. They'll unbolt the engine section uh simulator, transportation adapter, whatever you want to call it. They'll unbolt that and then they'll lift the top four fifths up into the integration center tool and bolt it to the engine section. Then they that will then allow them to begin doing all of the functional integrations between between those two subasssemblies, the engine section and the four fifths. So there's a lot of there's electrical, there's fluid lines, there's uh propellant lines. They'll start all they'll they'll start working on all those.
The uh the four RS25 engines will be trucked over from Stennis Space Center in southern Mississippi. They'll be driven. They'll go ground to Kennedy Space Center.
They will be prepped for install.
They'll install the engines. Um they'll continue doing all of the final connections of uh for the stage. So, we were talking about liquid oxygen feed lines on the outside, the liquid hydrogen feed lines on the inside, the the uh systems tunnel, the repressurization lines on the outside will have to be th those will be the repress lines are will will be welded.
They'll they'll be welded welded connections for the sections that they haven't finished yet. The uh propellant feed lines will be bolted connections.
They'll be doing foam closeouts of all of those bolted flanges. the repress repress lines will not have to be foamed. the um they'll do you know once the engines they'll install the engines in the vertical this time they they'll do leak checks of the of the main propulsion system at that point make sure you know leak checks of the engine connections to make sure the engine the engine interfaces are not leaking but then they'll do full leak checks of the main propulsion system and then they'll go into this uh final set of functional testing for the whole stage which is called final integrated functional test or FIF FT and that point we're talking about probably well into the second half of this year and eventually they will get to the point where they'll they'll be doing foam closeouts. So you saw some of those sections of the some of the flanges where they still had you can see green where the um where they haven't finished doing some of the foam sprays.
They'll do foam sprays and trimming and sanding.
Um and then they'll hand it over they'll hand the stage over to exploration ground systems.
Um the target is sometime towards the end of this year and then EGS will have a little bit of work to do maybe a couple a couple three weeks of work. They'll need to do some um they'll need to install some flight termination system uh components in the systems tunnel for the core stage and then they will do that double crane double breakover operation again. They'll lift it out of high bay 2, lay it down horizontal in the transfer aisle again, roll it over to roll it over in front of high bay 3 and then they'll lift it up over and made it to the boosters. And in the meantime, the boosters will be stacked on mobile launcher one. And so if this late 2027 date continues to track through the rest of this year or gets worse, it may we may see them we may see NASA pause the booster stacking and the the core stage can stay in highway 2 in that tool indefinitely, I would imagine. So, um, you know, so we will see.
Uh, let's see. So, John, I can certainly hang out here for a little bit. Uh, John is asking, um, based on the committee chairman's opening statements the other day, is there any hope that EU Mobile Launcher 2 will be restored? I guess I would say, uh, I think that's to be determined. I think we don't know whereas he whether Mr. Babin, Representative uh Babin in on the House side and the House appropriation side, he seems to support finishing those, but it remains to be seen whether where if there's a consensus on the Cong on on the side on on Capitol Hill. The White House wants the White House wants no part of that. So I think at best the white what the White House is saying is um if Boeing and Northr Grumman and the consortium of the prime contractors for SLS want to um take over complete financial responsibility for those and finish them on their own there. They would be okay with that. But I'm not sure if if I'm not sure. I think that's that's um that's that's a it's a the question I think is whether one of the questions is whether they would be willing to do that. And then is Congress, you know, is does does is Congress interested in playing any role in finishing those at this point or not. And so that's I think we just don't know at this point. We may find out the the appropriations subcommittees are going to be marking up and then the full committees are going to be marking up bills appropriations bills here in the next probably month.
Maybe we will get some idea once we get to see the actual legal text those in those but we may not um it may take a little while longer. But I do think we'll get at least some idea about what Congress wants to do. Um because it does seem like based on the law in place at this point, I I'm not sure uh even though NASA leadership uh I don't think NASA leadership has done anything yet to destroy exploration upper stage or mobile launcher 2 equipment. They have frozen work. So, they're definitely not progressing on it and they are taking they are going backwards. They've started disassembling Mobile Launcher 2, but I do not believe that they've done anything that would rule out finishing those at they would obviously have, you know, they're taking multi multiple steps backwards. And so if some if if uh if Boeing and Northrup Grumman and L3 Harris and that consortium of companies wanted to go forward again, then they they're obviously going it's it's going the the the actions that have been taken already I think have delayed have delayed those um being available to fly missions into the next decade if not well into the next decade. Um, but uh I don't think that's been ruled out yet. It's I don't know whether the White House uh because the thing is it probably will there would be some additional cost to terminating contracts. So I don't know what I I I don't know it's not clear exactly what everybody wants to do at this point. Um but it is pretty I think the clearest thing right now is the White House position which is um they want because Artemis 5 is already mandated by law and by uh with money to to be government funded the the SLS and Orion vehicles. um they're they're going to follow that law, but they immediately want so beginning with Artemis 6, they they do not want to the government to be um operating these systems and and paying for them. They want the they want uh they want to be contracting for for services and if these companies offer them as services, then that's okay with them. Um but they no longer want the government to have any commitments and any national they they don't want the national capabilities. Um and it isn't so much that they don't want national capabilities, it's just that they're really expensive and they don't want the cost of sustaining and maintaining that.
And so it remains to be seen what everybody wants to do for Artemis 6. We know what the White House wants to do. um we don't know what Congress wants to do and and probably more importantly we don't know what Congress wants to spend on Artemis 6 if anything. And then again, if you get into a commercial competition for uh lunar crew transportation services, um even if you're even if you're looking for two providers, I don't know how you set up that competition so that you guarantee that SLS and Orion, I guess the one way to do it is if you if they were to continue to provide the same level of funding and it's just that you're then you're just, you know, all of the folks that that have been working on these programs just their paychecks are written by somebody else, then that's okay. But I, you know, what it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to spend $4 billion a flight um on commercial services either. So, I don't know what what you're gaining if you were to spend the same amount of money for transportation services, whether you own and operate them yourselves or whether you're paying other companies to do that. So the flip side of that is if you're only spending let's say a billion dollars which is a huge amount of money but is significantly less than four um who the the only the only companies I think that could that that could afford to do that if you want to afford in air quotes are the ones that have significant government-sized financial backing externally from the government.
So that's obviously um Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos. I don't think anybody else can compete with them. Um, it'll be interesting to see what uh how SpaceX positions for this once they go public because then they will have to at least entertain the input from investors. Um, but it'll still be the same as like Tesla. So, they they the um shareholders will not have controlling interest in SpaceX. They will have some but they will they will have some influence but they will not have controlling interest in SpaceX either. So um so yeah I mean that's so as Eric's saying well I don't agree with that completely but that I think is the the the that's the line that we're trying to that that we're trying to to to to establish. when when does the government end its direct involvement in uh human space flight?
Um you might say that that this international space station but I would say you know again those really at this point the government is not operating the transportation services for uh for the space station either. And so is Artemis 5 the last national capability na uh the last time that the that that the nation is has its own capability to launch uh crew into space. That that's I think the question right now. um even if you end up just changing the badges. But again, it doesn't really there there's there's some there's an inongruity, you know, it's it's inongruous to um to say that that that there that you're going to let a commercial contract and pay the same costs to a commercial company when the whole point of the I think that the point of the commercial contracts is to reduce the amount of the cost. So, are those companies really willing to work at 50% of what they were getting, 25% of what they were getting, 10% of what they were getting? I don't know. I mean, are we talking about 500? We're talking about half a billion dollars. Isn't that still too expensive a flight? So, again, let's we need to find out what what government what what the Congress wants to do. Um but I it's I think inherent to a commercial competition under the circumstances with the industry right now um that you have that SpaceX is in the best position for sure and then Blue Origin would be in the second best position from a financial standpoint to win any largecale uh government contract where you're talking about you know human rating requirements.
Um I and I I don't even know where I would put the the uh the the traditional contractors. They would they would have some capability to do that. But you know that's it goes back to the whole question of skin in the game. Are they willing are they willing to do what SpaceX and Blue Origin are willing to do which is to con which is to um do finan you know uh rounds of financing rounds of private financing and go and and take on additional debt to to do this you know what's and again is there a business is there a business case for SLS um at one you know one launch a year it's hard hard to buy it. So, we shall see because it's really I think going to be up to it's just hard to see again, you know, maybe they can, you know, they're going to have to convince other people besides the public uh that they that that SLS can be done as a purely a pure commercial operation is and that there's a business case for for those systems.
Um, but I'd be certainly interested in hearing the the business case for it.
So, but we'll see. Um, I think with this static shot, it does look like it looks like the stage has been pulled in far enough to where uh to where it is.
It's hard to see it now. It may still be visible, but it's it's it's they they would have to pull it in a decent amount of ways to get in front of high bay 2 and high one.
So, I'll go ahead and uh I'll go ahead and wrap up my commentary on top of again this this uh live stream is being provided by NASA Kennedy Space Center Public Affairs. And so I I you know I certainly thank NASA for providing some level of of of this because it certainly something I can't provide. Um and so I'm just trying to provide some additional commentary and context hopefully and perspective.
And you can see you can see some of the uh support equipment is now trailing into the transfer aisle behind the stage.
So, one of the things that they did and then I will stop, but uh they do have the uh they do have the equipment in the inner tank and the forward skirt. They were keeping air conditioning on that and of course they have to disconnect that to do the move. So, they'll be trying to get those back on purge essentially and air conditioning purge here as soon as they can. Um, but they do have some period of time where they can where they can be off off of that air conditioning purge, but they'll be trying to get that set up because I wouldn't imagine I we will have to see when they're ready to do that lift and made it to the real engine section, but it it might be a few days if not weeks.
So, um, and so hopefully, again, this one last thing here. So Steve says, "I hope we see this stage before we we should see the stage when they do when they mate the sections together, at least parts of it." Um, I'm hoping that we will see that lift operation. It won't be live.
So maybe the next time we see this stage live is when it's rolled out, but I would hope that we see we see some views of it. um recorded views of it in the not in the not too distant future as they as they made it to the engine section as they install the engines and then as they get it ready for stacking and in theory that would be later this year. So I'll go ahead and uh wrap up the stream. Thanks to everybody for uh thanks for everybody for hanging out here.
Not really sure. This this was probably the last live event for a while, but we'll see. I I I wasn't exactly sure we were going to get this a week ago, so um we'll see if there are any other uh Artemis live events to to cover um in in the next several months. Um but I'll be I'll be doing uh I'll be doing more videos. Um I will still do I will still be doing uh a live stream for channel members um during the week. um because they're helping support uh travel and uh um sort of the more normal level of travel. Um I really appreciate everybody who's been here in on the public live streams who've helped out. The the interest has helped at least u um cover a significant portion of the costs. Um and that's really what I'm that's all I'm trying to do. Oh, and there's the end of the live stream. Let me see if I can uh let's see. I will switch over to this two and I'm gonna I'm g going to go ahead and close this.
But this is the Well, that's Artemis 4.
Well, I can only put it on.
This is the mission that that we're aimed at. And now, of course, we don't know we don't know what the date's going to be for that. But anyway, I'll go ahead and sign off. Thanks again to everybody. Um, thanks for thanks for all of the the all of your generosity during Artemis 2. It really does help. And really what I'm trying to do is I'm I'm trying to I'm trying to cover as much of this as I can and and that's really what this is for. And so, um, if I can just break even for travel costs, that would that'll that'll be great. Um, it'll allow me to to to do more travel if I can. Um, but I can certainly I will continue to cover this. Um, it's it's a much more cost-effective to stay in one place, but sometimes you do need to travel to see things. And so, but I will be covering this uh one way or another.
Uh, it does sound like this year is going to continue to be eventful. Um, maybe for different reasons than Aremis flights, though. But anyway, I'll go ahead and sign off now. I'll hopefully see you next time.
And uh if you're interested in joining the channel, I I will there will be a there will be a uh I will do another live stream later this week. I think maybe we'll wait and see how these congressional hearings are going. See if we get some more information about u other things and um but I will also be uh releasing videos uh try and continue to cover Artemis. If you want to continue to get coverage of Artemis every week, I will be continuing to do that. Thanks again everybody. I will see you next time.
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