The Shocking Truth Behind Missing Children: Parents Involved ~ Muluki Mung'ala

追加: 2026-05-30

[00:00:00]This particular hour, I'm very excited because I am hosting my cousin.

[00:00:04]It's none other than Muluki Mungala.

[00:00:07]Madam Mungala, how are you doing?

[00:00:08]>> Good, [laughter] Paul.

[00:00:11]>> You know >> Yes.

[00:00:12]>> I didn't see your the poster with your name. I knew the topic that we're going to have a conversation on, but I didn't know I'm actually hosting you until this morning. I even called my producer and I was like, "Surely, Edna."

[00:00:24]>> Uh-huh.

[00:00:29]No.

[00:00:30]>> But how are you doing?

[00:00:31]>> I'm great.

[00:00:34]>> So, how have you been?

[00:00:35]>> I've been great.

[00:00:36]>> [laughter] >> You're well?

[00:00:39]>> I'm very well.

[00:00:40]>> Tell us a little bit about So, Muluki Mungala is a child therapist and child protection a child protection practitioner at Childline Kenya. Tell us a little bit about Childline Kenya. What do you guys do?

[00:00:52]>> Yeah. So, thank you for the introduction, Paul. Um as you've heard, I work at Childline Kenya. We are a PPP.

[00:01:01]But we're in public private partnership with the government. But before there, before I explain how we partner with the government >> Yes.

[00:01:10]>> Um at Childline Kenya, we we provide an online platform where child protection cases are reported.

[00:01:17]>> Okay.

[00:01:17]>> And we work 24/7 >> Mhm.

[00:01:20]>> uh through the national child helpline number 116 and we respond to child protection cases all over the country.

[00:01:27]>> So, wait. There's a There's a There's a like a hotline.

[00:01:31]>> Yes. Yes.

[00:01:31]>> 116 >> Yes. 116 >> When people call this line, what exactly are they reporting?

[00:01:37]>> Um as long as it involves children >> Mhm.

[00:01:40]>> any child, as long as they're below 18 years, we offer our support.

[00:01:44]>> Okay.

[00:01:44]>> Yes.

[00:01:45]>> So, what kinds of Let me like for for example, how often does that line get called and what the what are what are some of the things that people report?

[00:01:52]>> Uh people report a lot a lot eh?

[00:01:55]>> Mhm.

[00:01:56]>> And a lot of cases.

[00:01:58]And uh at the helpline, I would talk about the different categories that of cases that we receive.

[00:02:05]>> So, they are divided into four.

[00:02:06]>> Mhm.

[00:02:07]>> We have or major majorly, let's say three three major categories.

[00:02:11]>> Okay.

[00:02:12]>> We have the abuse and violence cases.

[00:02:13]>> Mhm.

[00:02:14]>> Uh these are high-priority cases.

[00:02:16]>> Yeah.

[00:02:17]>> And then we have information inquiry.

[00:02:20]Um the helpline provides a lot of information to public, the general public, our country.

[00:02:27]>> Mhm.

[00:02:27]>> Uh you might have queries on birth registration. You might have uh the highest number we have is child support, child maintenance. We have custody cases. Uh under information inquiry, we also have uh six children, disputed paternity.

[00:02:44]>> Yeah.

[00:02:44]>> Uh there are so many cases where you can ask anything. Uh at at um the information inquiry cases is where we get um a lot of cases because parents want to find out, "How can you help my child?

[00:02:58]I'm in this situation. Uh what do I need to do?" And that is why we categorize them as information inquiry.

[00:03:04]>> Mhm.

[00:03:04]>> Then we have counseling cases.

[00:03:07]This is the core business uh of uh the helpline.

[00:03:10]>> Yeah.

[00:03:10]>> Uh mental health services, of course say the child protection services. We give counseling services for all.

[00:03:17]>> Mhm.

[00:03:18]>> For all children. And we do tele-counseling.

[00:03:21]And it is free.

[00:03:21]>> Tele-counseling is the the video counseling where you see me, I see you.

[00:03:24]>> So, for video is online therapy. Yeah.

[00:03:27]But we those are online counseling services.

[00:03:29]>> Mhm.

[00:03:30]>> But um tele-counseling is whereby it's through a call.

[00:03:34]>> Ah. Okay.

[00:03:35]>> number >> Yes.

[00:03:36]>> uh the way the call center is designed >> Mhm.

[00:03:41]>> And we have two call centers, one in Nairobi and the other one in Eldoret.

[00:03:45]>> Mhm.

[00:03:46]>> So, when you make a call, we have agents uh who pick who pick that call.

[00:03:51]>> Okay.

[00:03:51]>> And like I told you, we work 24 hours, so we get huge number of cases.

[00:03:56]And the fourth category is just in non-interventions cuz we have those moments where people call and they're silent. We have those moments when people call there's insufficient information on the case.

[00:04:08]>> wait, wait. They they call and but they're not talking.

[00:04:10]>> Yes.

[00:04:11]>> So how do you respond to such a call where I have called or a child has called and they're saying nothing?

[00:04:16]>> Yes. Uh one thing we do is first of all at the helpline we document all calls.

[00:04:22]>> Okay.

[00:04:23]>> Whether it's coming through the social media platforms or whether it's coming through the call itself or on our WhatsApp number, we respond to all calls. So if somebody calls and they do not talk sometimes you engage with them.

[00:04:36]You engage with the silence. Is there somebody there? Uh is there something you want to tell us? Take your time.

[00:04:44]I'm waiting to listen to you. Uh again you can always ask, do you have a question?

[00:04:50]Do you have a case you want to report?

[00:04:52]>> Okay.

[00:04:53]>> And then after maybe a minute or so is when now you you now document the case.

[00:04:59]>> Okay.

[00:05:00]>> And then cuz normally those callers tend to call again.

[00:05:03]>> Okay.

[00:05:04]>> Uh so sometimes someone is just mastering the courage >> to talk.

[00:05:07]>> to talk. Yes.

[00:05:08]>> In cases of abuse, what do you do? You direct that caller to the police or you you document the abuse and then you call them back? I mean what happens if if I if you're called and a child is reporting let's say sexual abuse, what happens?

[00:05:22]>> Yes. Uh good question, Paul. That's a very good question. Thank you. Uh when it comes to abuse and violence cases or let me just say all the cases that come through the the 116 number uh they're all documented and they go through what you call the case management system.

[00:05:40]So when the cases come to us, we offer crisis support uh referral pathways and also linkages. We link them to the services that, um, um, that they need. For example, if you get a call from Vihiga, >> Yes.

[00:05:56]>> Moyale, Mandera, Turkana, we get calls from all over the country. And in a day, as a as a as a counselor, >> Mhm.

[00:06:06]>> the call center is run by, uh, counselors.

[00:06:09]>> Okay.

[00:06:10]>> Yes, simply because of the nature of the helpline. It is to offer support to anyone who is in need, especially children. It's set up for the children.

[00:06:18]>> Okay.

[00:06:19]>> [snorts] >> So, once, um, the case is reported to us, um, you we listen to the case, of course.

[00:06:26]Um, and depending on the nature of the case, we give psychological first aid.

[00:06:30]>> Okay.

[00:06:30]>> And from there, we start getting the information about the case.

[00:06:34]>> Mhm.

[00:06:34]>> So, whoever is reporting to us, remember we're in the helpline, and we work with a very huge, uh, directory of partners.

[00:06:42]>> Yes.

[00:06:43]>> Childline Kenya is the technical the official technical partner that runs the government toll-free number 116.

[00:06:51]>> Mhm.

[00:06:54]>> Okay.

[00:06:54]>> The system is theirs, and we have an MOU with them.

[00:06:57]>> Mhm.

[00:06:58]>> And thanks to that MOU, we can access services all over the country >> Okay.

[00:07:03]>> in every sub-county. And I think we have over 320 sub-counties.

[00:07:07]>> Yes.

[00:07:08]>> So, once the call comes in, like now, Mungala, just give me a scenario. You like what you've said, defilement.

[00:07:13]>> Yes.

[00:07:14]>> Of course, you get the details. Uh, it could be It depends also who is calling.

[00:07:18]It could be the child or it could be an adult.

[00:07:21]>> Mhm.

[00:07:21]>> So, we refer to them where they can get services.

[00:07:24]>> Okay.

[00:07:25]>> So, either to the police, the National Police Service, >> Mhm.

[00:07:29]>> and then they're supposed to, right, you know, an OB, record the statements, uh, next step, take the children to the or the child to the hospital.

[00:07:38]>> Mhm.

[00:07:40]>> P3 form. They And remember, uh, this documentation is only done in medical government medical facilities.

[00:07:47]>> So that means you have got to go to public hospital.

[00:07:50]>> Yes. Yes. And we also have special hospitals that also have that mandate.

[00:07:56]The ones that offer GBV services like Coptic, Nairobi Women's, MSF. We have different clinics and hospitals that also offer that service for free. It's not charged.

[00:08:07]>> I didn't know that you have got to go to a public hospital for you to get this government reports.

[00:08:12]>> Yes.

[00:08:12]>> Because I once needed a P3 form.

[00:08:14]>> Yes. Yes.

[00:08:19]>> [laughter] >> All those tests.

[00:08:24]And at the end I went back to the police station but >> Okay.

[00:08:29]>> You know, also the training of our police officers Those guys laughed at me instead of helping me.

[00:08:34]>> Oh, no.

[00:08:36]>> I mean after laughing they not help you after laughing. Or did they just laugh?

[00:08:40]City, you have no idea.

[00:08:44]I mean I was in a scuffle somewhere.

[00:08:47]I'm hurting. I'm in pain. I'm in pain.

[00:08:55]So you did not ask which hospital you should go to. I didn't ask because to me a hospital is a hospital. Whether it's Aga Khan or it's Kenyatta, it's a hospital.

[00:09:04]>> Yes.

[00:09:08]>> [clears throat] [laughter] >> I went back to the police station but those guys laughed and laughed directed me to the specific hospital within my locality I should have gone to.

[00:09:30]>> Yes.

[00:09:30]>> Anyway It's So do you follow up? Do you usually follow up with this >> Absolutely.

[00:09:36]>> victims to find out what has happened?

[00:09:37]>> Oh, yes. We do.

[00:09:39]Um and follow up can can take There's There's no amount of time that is put in in terms of follow up because um high priority cases, abuse and violence cases, for example, the one the example that you've given about defilement, uh these are they are categorized as high priority ongoing. So, uh you have to justify why you're closing the case. By the time you're coming to close a defilement case, one, the child must have gotten medical assistance.

[00:10:10]Uh the child also has been rescued. The environment has has changed.

[00:10:15]Um also, there's a court process. The perpetrator has been arrested and uh arraigned in court and uh everything has happened in terms of the the legal system. And then that's when So, some cases take long uh because of the nature of the case.

[00:10:32]>> Yeah.

[00:10:33]>> Especially those sexual assault cases who was in a refulcasana because uh there's a lot There's a lot that is needed.

[00:10:40]>> Yes.

[00:10:40]>> Yes.

[00:10:41]>> You know this thing that you do >> Mhm.

[00:10:44]>> is very significant and it's very important.

[00:10:46]>> Thank you, CT.

[00:10:47]>> [laughter] >> No, it is. It is.

[00:10:51]Is it possible for you to walk us through is to the thinking >> Mhm.

[00:10:54]>> behind it, why you got into this, >> Mhm.

[00:10:58]>> what the demands for such a service were, >> Mhm.

[00:11:00]>> and because it is definitely needed. It is definitely important.

[00:11:05]>> Absolutely.

[00:11:06]>> But the background to it.

[00:11:08]>> Okay.

[00:11:09]Uh would you want me to share it from what we do as an organization or my personal experience?

[00:11:14]>> I like to mix both.

[00:11:15]>> Yes. Yes.

[00:11:16]>> I I'd like to know why you >> Yes.

[00:11:18]>> got into that line of work >> Yes.

[00:11:20]>> when there are so many other things you could have do.

[00:11:22]>> Absolutely.

[00:11:23]>> Yes. And then you can tell us cuz once you tell us why the you join the organization becomes easy to understand.

[00:11:30]>> Exactly. Exactly.

[00:11:32]>> you. Want you to tell us about.

[00:11:34]>> Yeah, thank you CT for that. So first of all I have a background in teaching.

[00:11:41]And I am an early childhood educator.

[00:11:44]>> I smile because I myself am a teacher.

[00:11:46]>> Oh nice. What did you teach?

[00:11:48]>> Literature and the English language.

[00:11:53]>> [laughter] >> But I taught economics.

[00:11:58]>> Yes.

[00:11:58]>> And I also taught history and Kiswahili.

[00:12:01]>> Yes.

[00:12:01]>> The ones you're in the school the head teacher will decide what you should teach. Forget what you studied.

[00:12:06]>> Yes, yes. Yeah, so after teaching or rather during my teaching training I was also passionate about the mental health of children.

[00:12:15]Because of my experience in the school you realize that um um I wanted to give my learners and students a little bit more beyond the classroom, beyond teaching children and the ABCDs and everything that we teach children. So my passion for child therapy started a long time ago.

[00:12:34]It's been a beautiful journey.

[00:12:36]Uh and I started from the school setup.

[00:12:40]And as I continued to grow my knowledge and also adding more knowledge and professional courses in child therapy I decided to expand my scope and I stopped limiting myself to schools alone. And that is how I found myself in the child protection space. Of course with a lot of guidance from my mentors.

[00:13:02]Uh because kuna wale watu wanani jua vizuri sana and they they know they challenge me and they told me Muluki you can you have the capacity to do a lot and to serve more. And and that's how I joined child protection and I joined actually Childline Kenya.

[00:13:17]So this is my fifth year there.

[00:13:20]And it's been a wonderful experience because now I get to serve diff in different capacities. I wear different hats at Childline Kenya. I support the the call center 116 and I also support the programs department. So, when it comes to child protection [clears throat] and especially psychosocial support in the child protection space, it is very demanding.

[00:13:47]It is not a career for the faint-hearted.

[00:13:49]>> Mhm.

[00:13:50]>> What?

[00:13:51]>> Mhm.

[00:13:51]>> You know, the cases come and you have to be mentally ready to handle those cases.

[00:13:58]Uh because um some of the challenges that are reported at the helpline they are so severe.

[00:14:06]It is heartbreaking what is happening to children.

[00:14:09]And um I I was pulled to Childline Kenya because of the scope of work that they do. It's very wide.

[00:14:16]>> Mhm.

[00:14:16]>> Uh we we move from mental health, psychosocial support to emergency response. Actually, Childline Kenya uh the national child helpline falls directly um in the what we call in the state department of children services.

[00:14:33]>> Mhm.

[00:14:34]>> Uh it falls directly under the department of strategic interventions and emergency response.

[00:14:39]>> Mhm.

[00:14:40]>> So, we give emergency response to cases all over the country. And let me tell you, Paul and CT, >> Mhm.

[00:14:46]>> you those cases come >> Yeah.

[00:14:49]>> and uh the call center is is a center for receiving these these calls.

[00:14:56]And it's a lot. Whatever is happening in the media, it is pushed to us. Whatever you see um happening to children, it is all pushed to us.

[00:15:05]>> Okay.

[00:15:05]>> So, we we cannot do this work alone and I'm so grateful that uh we have a partnership with the state department of children services because they support a lot.

[00:15:14]Um the state department or rather the government any any parastatal body uh steps in very quickly to support children.

[00:15:23]>> Yeah. For example, in we've heard of these cases of missing children.

[00:15:27]>> Oh yeah.

[00:15:28]>> Um it was actually highlighted just the other day that we there's a there's an organization, sorry, that is dealing with almost 1,900 Um you know, [clears throat] missing cases.

[00:15:40]>> Yeah, that must be Missing Child Kenya.

[00:15:41]>> Yes, yes. 1,900 children. I mean, that's that's quite a lot.

[00:15:45]>> It's a lot.

[00:15:45]>> What's happening? From the data that you're collecting, what's what's not happening? What's happening and what's not happening?

[00:15:52]>> Uh I would say both.

[00:15:54]Um even as we are asking ourselves, what is what is not happening or what is happening?

[00:16:00]>> Do you get calls from parents who have missing children or >> Oh yes.

[00:16:03]>> Okay.

[00:16:04]>> Yeah. We get parents um a lot, especially right now that we had the International Missing Day for children.

[00:16:12]That was just celebrated recently on Monday. And um we have started sensitizing uh the public through the government, through state and non-state actors. We are creating awareness. So, when these numbers come, it is now people are coming out to say, "I have lost my child." Before, ulikuwa unapoteza mtoto >> Mhm.

[00:16:35]>> you you struggle you struggle among your family members, majirani, the community. You start struggling, "Eh, help me find this child." Alafu your story inaishia hapo.

[00:16:45]>> Yes.

[00:16:45]>> But now, reporting has come up. A lot of awareness has been created.

[00:16:50]>> Mhm.

[00:16:50]>> Uh but also the issue now it goes for me how I look at it and how I assess it, missing children also goes hand in hand with trafficking.

[00:17:00]Uh because these children are either stolen or they abandoned or they neglected or they stray.

[00:17:07]>> Mhm.

[00:17:08]>> Yeah, there's so many when you look at the data that was shared by the PS >> Yes.

[00:17:12]>> they they broke it down, the different categories of how children go missing.

[00:17:17]And one thing that came out very clearly and the higher numbers of and that's a good thing about data.

[00:17:24]The highest number of these missing children are as a result of POOR PARENTING.

[00:17:30]>> NO WAY.

[00:17:31]>> Yes way. Yes way.

[00:17:33]>> Missing children have has a correlation with poor parenting?

[00:17:37]>> According to that report, when you look at how they've they've broken down because that is data that was shared and it was broken down. I'll also try and check for you where I saw it. It was broken down and and that's when it shows that these children are and it even gave a specific number. There are children who are abandoned.

[00:17:56]Have you ever seen those children you go somewhere with a child and then what crowd to somebody goes and then the child is left stranded.

[00:18:05]Uh we receive so many cases like that.

[00:18:08]And the children call.

[00:18:09]And the child calls and they say I am so and so. Now especially I'm a good good Samaritan. The good Samaritan will call and say please talk to this child. I don't know this child. I've just met her on the road or I've met him on the road. Please assist them and then we call the child.

[00:18:26]What happened? And then they'll tell you I can't remember.

[00:18:34]You know and >> How old are these kids roughly? The ones especially those ones who are abandoned in in the streets or in public places.

[00:18:41]>> It it varies. It's from all the way to newborns to 18. Yeah. So we have yeah.

[00:18:53]>> Okay, it's funny but it's not funny. Let me ask this question.

[00:18:57]When you talk of bad parenting what are the indicators of good parenting that we can understand how bad parenting occurs?

[00:19:07]>> I wouldn't say bad parenting specifically. I would just say I think parents are just struggling with the parenting because it's not easy.

[00:19:18]>> Is there a time when parenting has been easy?

[00:19:21]>> [laughter] >> Yeah, it's it's not easy. Parenting is not easy.

[00:19:27]I would I would I would share it as poor parenting as opposed to saying bad parenting. Because not everybody has the skills to be a good mother or a good father.

[00:19:38]>> saying people get into parenting without fully being cognizant of what it requires.

[00:19:42]>> Exactly.

[00:19:43]>> And then somewhere along the lines some headwinds coming their direction and they feel this is overwhelming.

[00:19:49]>> Yes. Yes.

[00:19:51]And and that is why the the government has released a positive parenting manual. There's a manual and the government has made them in 2024 the government made its commitment to end violence against children and it gave a quite a number of commitments that it's going to do. And at the top of the list was parental support and caregiving. So because that's a need that came up as a result of the data that has been collected because there's more information. When you ask the children what happened they'll tell you this is what happened to me.

[00:20:28]When they call when good Samaritans call when the chiefs call the number is used by everyone. Yeah and one thing that comes out very strongly you'll hear somebody say Some children are neglected because they have this a taboo. Some are twins. Twins they are told communities when I say my twins and they wait for us.

[00:20:50]>> It's a blessing.

[00:20:51]>> I know.

[00:20:52]>> It's a blessing. We have several twins in the family.

[00:20:54]>> Yes.

[00:20:55]>> Look I'm asking also in regards to what you're saying the taboo thing so these are some of the things that actually lead to child abandonment.

[00:21:09]>> Yeah, like like I'm just reading from what just to break it down.

[00:21:13]Abandoned in this category of 10,508 statistics that was given, it is broken down and we are seeing abandonment cases were 6,820.

[00:21:28]That period of January 2025 to March 2026.

[00:21:35]Continue. So this is how it is broken down so that you see the different categories of missing children.

[00:21:41]And then we have abductions, 1,952 cases.

[00:21:46]And then we have lost and found children, 1,636 cases. And then we have trafficked children, 173 cases.

[00:21:56]>> These children are trafficked to where?

[00:22:01]>> Some are trafficked for child labor.

[00:22:07]Unfortunately, there is also a child sex trafficking.

[00:22:11]So these children are also exploited sexually.

[00:22:15]The worst is the organ organ harvesting.

[00:22:19]Yeah, some yeah, it's it's really tragic because some children lose their lives.

[00:22:27]>> By the time you're removing the liver, it's a wrap.

[00:22:30]>> It's a wrap. Yeah.

[00:22:31]>> Do we have statistics as to how many children die?

[00:22:35]The ones who are lost and the ones who can't be accounted for and the ones who are still being looked for. Do we have statistics as to how many Let me say something a little a little easy on the mind.

[00:22:45]Um Do we have statistics as to how many children actually just disappear in the course of a year in this country?

[00:22:53]Do we Can we categorize it as to the ages of these children who actually disappear?

[00:22:58]>> Yeah, the information we get it from the families because they're the ones who give us the ages of the children. And they also, of course, many other information that they give. But right now, the only information that has been released by the government is that statistic. Um I I I believe um the data protection we we cannot disclose that because it is very sensitive information. But yes, the government has its system and then the national child helpline has its system.

[00:23:29]But in terms of specific numbers, um that data has not yet been released by the government.

[00:23:35]>> Missing Child Kenya.

[00:23:36]>> Yes.

[00:23:37]>> Is it a private entity or is it a government entity?

[00:23:41]>> It uh the Missing Child Kenya, I would say, is a child protection agency that is run by a lady called Maryanne.

[00:23:50]Um it is her organization. And so, she has partnered together with the government in order to uh help in locating missing children.

[00:23:59]And they do a fantastic job.

[00:24:01]>> And And just like you >> seen their posters.

[00:24:04]>> Yeah, I've seen the the the >> Yeah, zinazunguka.

[00:24:07]>> Zinazunguka >> Zinazunguka >> But you said Childline Kenya, which is where you work. You're a a PP You call it a PPP?

[00:24:14]>> Yes, public-private partnership.

[00:24:16]>> Okay.

[00:24:16]>> Yes, so that's how the the helpline runs. Yes, and we've been here for I think this is like 22 years now.

[00:24:23]>> Mhm.

[00:24:23]>> Mhm.

[00:24:24]>> 22 years. So, you've been here for 22 years. You're telling me this problem has been with us longer than 22 years.

[00:24:31]>> Oh, yeah. Yeah, but then the numbers are increasing.

[00:24:36]>> Break down for for us, please.

[00:24:38]>> Mhm.

[00:24:39]>> What is it that brings this about?

[00:24:42]>> Mhm.

[00:24:42]>> Because if the numbers are increasing, yes, I understand the population of of Kenya is increasing, but >> [clears throat] >> if what it is that you do is on the increase, >> Mhm.

[00:24:53]>> people call, children call, >> Mhm.

[00:24:55]>> all the associated issues that you deal with.

[00:24:58]>> Mhm.

[00:24:59]>> Is there a common thread? Or is it Are there common threads?

[00:25:03]>> Mhm.

[00:25:04]>> What is it that brings this thing about?

[00:25:05]Why is it on the increase?

[00:25:06]>> Yeah.

[00:25:08]Thank you, City, for that question.

[00:25:10]Uh I think this this also brings the conversation of push and pull factors.

[00:25:15]Um and these are very harsh economic times.

[00:25:19]And and parents and caregivers are struggling. They're struggling to maintain um the demanding the rising needs for children.

[00:25:28]Uh I would say that as one.

[00:25:30]And at two and two we have also gaps.

[00:25:34]We have gaps in our systems. Uh whereby um maybe the community is not aware in terms of safeguarding. How do you work together in in terms of helping these children who are missing? Um another issue I would talk about um the parenting skills. That one I've already shared before, movie.

[00:25:54]>> Mhm.

[00:25:54]>> Uh parenting skills whereby when a parent um gets into a confrontation with their child or they're having challenges with their child, unaskia mzazi akisema hutakaa kwa hii nyumba.

[00:26:06]Toka na wewe.

[00:26:07]>> Na wewe.

[00:26:07]>> Wewe uende. So, some of these children also are are are >> chased away from their homes.

[00:26:12]>> Not [snorts] to mention the street children. We have children who are on the streets who also we run away. That is also a category that um that is in at the helpline. One of the case categories we have is runaway children. Some of these children on their own, they run away.

[00:26:29]Others because of the situation at home, wanatafuta greener pastures.

[00:26:33]>> Mhm.

[00:26:33]>> Pia wao wanapotea. Unaskia okay. I um I don't know if you saw that um it was on the media. Uh this little girl who's 15 years old and she was used to steal another child and she was captured on CCTV. It happened. Yes.

[00:26:49]>> Was it the The that we saw a young girl walking with another young girl was missing Yes, I saw it.

[00:26:54]>> And the little 15 year old girl was told if you help us get a child, no specific child. One at a time you are now >> I don't know what kind of a particular assignment >> So that is a 15 year old. So you can see when children are pushed to a corner they start doing things like that. And it was it is very unfortunate if another child can be used to take other children. So we must be very vigilant.

[00:27:26]>> There's the issue of course of ransom.

[00:27:29]Like I remember just a few weeks ago there's a parent who who lost her child.

[00:27:37]They were unable to raise that money or come back with any mighty money for learning.

[00:27:41]You also get those cases as well.

[00:27:43]>> We do.

[00:27:44]>> Kidnappings, yeah.

[00:27:45]>> Oh, yes. Oh, yes. And I I think I've I don't know if I've kidnappings And that report that was shared, we have 1,952 cases that have been reported in that period that I was telling you January 2025 to March 2026 this year.

[00:28:02]And um the children they could be kidnapped with there's something we call parental child abduction. Yeah, also if you're having issues especially when you're having custody battles, you can also not to come to turn up with a year you go out of the country and you never see your child again.

[00:28:20]>> I know actually I have a friend who lost her child in that way.

[00:28:24]The the the the the baby daddy was I think an Kenyan or Nigerian.

[00:28:29]So >> spend time >> So they went spent time come here to times it wasn't time spending.

[00:28:40]This guy had arranged everything from Nigeria including a passport and everything.

[00:28:45]Came to Kenya, took the child out and that's how they went to the airport and left the country.

[00:28:49]>> Yes. And And those cases are so tragic because you see the the the parent the child is known to the parent is known to the child.

[00:28:59]>> Yeah.

[00:28:59]>> So and 80% of the cases of missing children the perpetrators are known to the child. So these are not strangers.

[00:29:09]>> There's another case >> They get lured by a familiar face. Let me say it that way. These are familiar faces to the children.

[00:29:21]Or somebody who's in the car wash and the children just pass there every day.

[00:29:25]So and you know they see them, they know them. And And so when a child is lured or when they're abducted it's This is not a stranger to them. They've just been hovering around that child.

[00:29:37]>> I even know of another case. It's just I can't remember the country but it was within Africa too.

[00:29:41]>> Yes.

[00:29:42]>> The the the mother and the child >> Yes.

[00:29:45]>> They they went to see the baby daddy >> Mhm.

[00:29:48]>> in that particular country.

[00:29:50]>> Mhm.

[00:29:50]>> And after that the mother was told when she landed like this Akamba you go back to Kenya.

[00:29:55]>> Yes.

[00:29:57]>> You know these these cases we hear of them and we we we are shocked.

[00:30:00]>> Yeah.

[00:30:01]>> They are as normal as normal can be.

[00:30:03]>> Let me tell you at the helpline >> Mhm.

[00:30:06]>> as a as a counselor just alone because we have you know many counselors in the call center. We can receive up to almost 80 to 100 cases in a day per counselor.

[00:30:20]>> Per counselor?

[00:30:20]>> Yes. Calls. You can receive up to 80 to almost 100 per counselor.

[00:30:26]>> And how many counselors are you?

[00:30:28]>> Tuko wingi.

[00:30:28]>> Mko wingi?

[00:30:29]>> Eh, tuko wingi.

[00:30:32]I don't know why we work in shifts.

[00:30:34]>> Okay.

[00:30:34]>> Yes. We work in shifts. There's day shift and there's night shift.

[00:30:37]>> Now.

[00:30:38]>> Yes.

[00:30:39]>> What happened at the Girls yesterday morning in Gilgil.

[00:30:44]>> Yeah.

[00:30:45]>> It is suspected where of course investigations are still ongoing. So, even as we discuss this, we are not sure what we are discussing.

[00:30:52]But still, let's talk about it. It is alleged because it has happened in other places that today there's there are there are might be students that started the fire.

[00:31:01]>> Mhm.

[00:31:01]>> Do you ever get calls from students who have got mental health issues and they just want to talk it out?

[00:31:07]>> Mhm.

[00:31:07]>> They either are are having abusive parents at home or they are being abused by a parent.

[00:31:14]They are being abused by a brother or a sister, a sibling, yeah. They are being abused by a caregiver.

[00:31:18]>> Yes.

[00:31:19]>> Do you get such cases?

[00:31:20]>> [clears throat] >> And and and do these cases ever escalate to something like what we've witnessed in Utumishi?

[00:31:26]>> Uh thank you, Paul, for bringing about that example that you've asked.

[00:31:32]And first of all, I just wanted us to observe 1 minute of silence in memory of these lovely children that we've lost and their caregivers.

[00:31:47]And condolences to the parents of these and the families of the uh the children that were lost in Utumishi Academy, which is so tragic. It is very sad and I like the fact that you said that we do not know. Investigations are ongoing. So, let [clears throat] me allow me to just talk about conduct disorders.

[00:32:05]>> Okay.

[00:32:06]>> These are behavior issues that children have.

[00:32:10]And when you look at um uh the challenges that children have in terms of behavior, uh these it's not it's not something that comes up at you overnight. It is something that a child starts building over time.

[00:32:24]>> Mhm.

[00:32:25]>> And if it is not monitored early or the intervention is not given early enough, >> Yes.

[00:32:30]>> it escalates. And children do have mental disorders. And that is why in the DSM-5, the big book for for psychology that we use today.

[00:32:40]>> DSM-5.

[00:32:42]>> Yes.

[00:32:42]>> Now, I almost asked which which OCD IS THAT? [laughter] SO, THERE'S a manual.

[00:32:47]>> There's a big manual that talks about mental disorders, both for children and adults.

[00:32:51]>> Okay.

[00:32:52]>> So, they are categorized as behavior disorders. And children who have these conduct disorders can really do the most Uh first of all, we have those petty crimes, you know, kuibaiba, you know?

[00:33:04]They start small.

[00:33:06]>> Kleptomaniacs.

[00:33:06]>> Yes, they start small.

[00:33:09]>> Sticky fingers.

[00:33:09]>> Yeah, sticky fingers.

[00:33:11]>> [laughter] >> And that's a small and then they get caught with their classmates and they take a snack. It starts like that. And then it builds over time. So, conduct disorders cases are so many. They are so many. And these children, when they're in the school setting, they tend to come together, they gang up, and then they they start um doing something, of course, that is going to damage the the what is happening to the school or uh other children. And the cases that we receive, uh apart from the mental disorders that children have, uh we have institutions where these children are taken.

[00:33:48]And uh we they're called statutory institutions. So, when a child um the the age of criminal liability >> [clears throat] >> in our country, in Kenya, is 12 years old.

[00:34:00]>> 12?

[00:34:01]>> Yes.

[00:34:01]>> 12?

[00:34:02]>> Yes.

[00:34:03]>> Okay, maybe I'm wrong. Help me understand. What is criminal liability?

[00:34:06]>> Yes. Uh so, it is where a child um a child offender has done something that is uh deemed an offense in according to the law.

[00:34:18]>> And they can be held personally responsible. So, not the parent, not a caregiver, it is the child.

[00:34:24]>> It is the child.

[00:34:26]Uh si kujitetea, of course, this is where sisi tu we come in and psychologists.

[00:34:30]>> Uh but they're held responsible personally.

[00:34:32]>> Yes.

[00:34:33]>> Okay.

[00:34:33]>> I call responsible.

[00:34:34]>> All right.

[00:34:35]>> and before in the repealed act, you know, 2022 where the current children act that we are using >> Mhm.

[00:34:41]>> is the 2022 uh children act. It's a repealed act.

[00:34:45]>> Mhm.

[00:34:46]>> Before it was 8 years, then it was moved to 12 >> 12?

[00:34:51]>> Uh 12, I think when it comes to when you're talking about developmental milestones, uh a 12-year-old has a higher capacity in terms of reasoning.

[00:35:00]Okay? They know what is good and they know what is bad.

[00:35:03]>> Mhm.

[00:35:04]>> Um we also have school rules.

[00:35:06]Okay? And rules are going to be very simple.

[00:35:09]>> Yes.

[00:35:09]>> You know, be punctual, don't be late for class, >> Correct uniform.

[00:35:14]>> correct uniform, >> Mhm.

[00:35:17]>> for school, no stealing property. You know all those rules.

[00:35:21]>> Yes.

[00:35:21]>> So at 12 years, a child can fully comprehend this.

[00:35:25]>> Okay.

[00:35:25]>> Yes.

[00:35:25]>> All right.

[00:35:26]>> And I've learned it starts small. It starts with, you know, just to small things that people will do.

[00:35:32]Like maybe they pick on someone or they there was a fight that broke out in school.

[00:35:36]>> Bullying.

[00:35:37]>> Bullying. Okay, but and they and the state is very It gives very compassionate and nurturing care to these children.

[00:35:46]>> Yes.

[00:35:46]>> Because there's a lot of intervention that goes on. First of all, they are given guidance and counseling. When it is escalated to the state Department of Children's Services, there's something that they undergo that is called supervision. So you find the state Department also monitors this child.

[00:36:03]Especially if the child is having serious behavior issues in the school setting. So at the corner of the office of a child whereby there's a counselor and a child in Kenya also offers psychosocial support in children offices. So they come to the office every week and they have a calendar whereby your your behavior is monitored.

[00:36:26]So when they come to Let me just give an example. A child who runs away.

[00:36:31]>> Mhm.

[00:36:33]Mhm.

[00:36:35]Mhm.

[00:36:39]>> But, for some strange reason, they keep running away or always getting in trouble in school.

[00:36:44]>> Yes.

[00:36:47]Mhm.

[00:36:50]Mhm.

[00:36:51]Mhm.

[00:36:54]Mhm.

[00:37:01]Mhm.

[00:37:17]Mhm.

[00:37:27]Mhm.

[00:37:51]Yeah.

[00:37:53]Mhm. Uh Mhm.

[00:38:10]Mhm.

[00:38:13]>> Oh, go on. I'm just smiling.

[00:38:15]>> Yes.

[00:38:16]>> rehabilitative care cuz I'm going to ask you >> Yes.

[00:38:18]>> uh how many are clinically Yeah, yeah, you know >> rehabilitated >> rehabilitated but please go on.

[00:38:23]>> Yes.

[00:38:24]Good question, by the way.

[00:38:25]>> Mhm.

[00:38:26]>> Um and I the the State Department of Children Services have their own um rehabilitative institutions.

[00:38:34]And then also we have other organizations that have the probation probations uh department as well. They also have their probation Do you remember the probation department deals with children in conflict and con- contact with the conflict with the law.

[00:38:50]Sorry about that.

[00:38:50]>> Mhm.

[00:38:51]>> Conflict with the law.

[00:38:52]>> Children who are in conflict with the law.

[00:38:53]>> Yes, they're called child offenders.

[00:38:54]>> Mhm.

[00:38:55]>> They're children who commit crimes.

[00:38:57]>> Okay.

[00:38:57]>> So, they're handled by the probation department, and they also have their own facilities.

[00:39:01]>> Mhm.

[00:39:02]>> And that is where the children are rehabilitated. The State Department of Children Services also has their statutory institutions. We have remand homes.

[00:39:10]>> Mhm.

[00:39:10]>> We have um rehabilitation schools.

[00:39:13]>> Mhm.

[00:39:14]>> Uh we have borstal institutions.

[00:39:16]>> Mhm.

[00:39:16]>> Uh these are all the they fall under the State Department of Children Services.

[00:39:20]>> Okay.

[00:39:20]>> the child is placed in different institution based on where their case is.

[00:39:26]>> Mhm.

[00:39:26]>> Uh sometimes when they are caught immediately >> Yes.

[00:39:29]>> they're immediately arraigned in court.

[00:39:31]They are So, there's uh those that we call assessment centers. They are put there, and they are assessed um by psychologists, and of course the the children officers, and then now they are placed in the different statutory institutions depending on their offense.

[00:39:46]>> There's a problem here.

[00:39:47]>> Yes.

[00:39:48]>> If we determine that at the age of 12 >> Mhm.

[00:39:51]>> somebody can should take responsibility for their misdeeds.

[00:39:54]>> Mhm.

[00:39:55]>> We then understand from uh >> Mhm.

[00:39:58]>> a sociological perspective where these people have a tendency towards being sociopaths >> Mhm.

[00:40:03]>> or even an extreme form >> Yes.

[00:40:06]>> where you the psycho word comes in.

[00:40:08]>> Mhm.

[00:40:09]>> So, essentially we are referring they are being treated as mature minors.

[00:40:15]>> Yes. Yes and no.

[00:40:17]>> Well, they are because if you're being held responsible >> yes.

[00:40:21]>> See, this is where my mind takes me. I'm thinking if you take that particular perspective to its logical conclusion >> Mhm.

[00:40:31]>> and that a child is able at the age of 12 to understand fully and comprehend the enormity >> Yes.

[00:40:38]>> magnitude of things they do.

[00:40:39]>> Mhm.

[00:40:40]>> Then why don't we allow 12-year-olds to get married? Because it is the same thought process that you are saying.

[00:40:46]>> Mhm.

[00:40:46]>> If I can move to the point where I understand the wrong I'm doing.

[00:40:51]>> Mhm.

[00:40:52]>> So let us talk about an institution like marriage.

[00:40:54]>> Mhm.

[00:40:55]>> Yeah. Somebody wants to get married.

[00:40:58]>> Yes.

[00:40:58]>> So by extension, can a 12-year-old be allowed to get married? And the answer will be no.

[00:41:02]>> Yes. Absolutely.

[00:41:05]>> Yes. Yes.

[00:41:06]>> Yes. Now how do you set this right? And because we're talking about institutionalizing these children.

[00:41:12]>> Mhm.

[00:41:15]>> That is seen as a solution, but I really wonder whether it actually works as a solution because the a problem has to begin somewhere.

[00:41:22]>> Mhm.

[00:41:23]>> Okay?

[00:41:23]>> Mhm.

[00:41:24]>> You know, there was a case in 1993, yeah?

[00:41:26]>> Mhm.

[00:41:27]>> In which a young a boy, a 2-year-old called >> [snorts] >> James Bulger was actually killed by two 10-year-olds.

[00:41:34]>> Yeah.

[00:41:34]>> Okay?

[00:41:35]>> Mhm.

[00:41:36]>> The mother was in a shop. They saw this 10-year-old they let the child the boy out of out of the out of the shop.

[00:41:42]>> Mhm.

[00:41:43]>> Took him to a railway stopping somewhere.

[00:41:46]Beat him to death. His mutilated body was found there.

[00:41:49]CCTV caught these individuals, 10-year-olds.

[00:41:53]They were jailed for 8 years. When they came out after those 8 years they were given new identities.

[00:42:01]One of these young men continued exhibiting traits antisocial traits and kept going in and out of jail. The other one became a normal citizen and he did well. Now >> Uh wait, maybe um I can ask a quick question. When you say they went to jail, might you know what kind of institution they were taken?

[00:42:20]>> Oh, they were tried and taken to jail.

[00:42:22]It is a case where this in the UK marked the point where 10-year-olds were convicted of murder.

[00:42:32]10-year-olds [clears throat] had never been convicted of murder.

[00:42:35]So, they were taken to jail.

[00:42:37]Okay? Now, you're asking me, was it a jail for young people or was it >> Yeah.

[00:42:44]>> No, no.

[00:42:45]>> Yeah.

[00:42:45]>> Um it was the closest you can take a child to.

[00:42:51]They were not jailed with adults. That's what you're asking.

[00:42:53]>> Yes, yes.

[00:42:54]>> They were not. 10-year-olds, no, they could >> Yeah, yeah, of course.

[00:42:57]>> They could not.

[00:42:58]They could not. But, why I'm bringing up the point is this.

[00:43:03]Such a bizarre thing should raise a debate as to what it is that drove these two young boys to pick this young child cuz the child walked away with them.

[00:43:15]A 2-year-old. And then they did what they did. What is it that was the influence?

[00:43:20]Again, when you come to schools, one of the things that I saw people doing, headmasters, I having been one such person did it.

[00:43:30]The most destructive elements that you had, you made them prefects.

[00:43:35]>> Okay.

[00:43:36]>> So, >> I've seen that strategy.

[00:43:38]>> Yes, so you they focus their energy. And in many cases, it works.

[00:43:43]They take up responsibility and somehow, and because of what they are, they are good at keeping order because they are actually feared by the other students.

[00:43:54]The question I'm asking is not that systems don't exist give enough thought to the why. Cuz the why question is important.

[00:44:04]>> Yes, it is. Yes.

[00:44:06]>> That's my question. Do we give enough thought as to the way and if this is on the increase, then it means we need to increase the thought process that we apply to these things even more.

[00:44:16]>> Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:44:18]>> And if it is an increase to the point where it is alarming, then we really have to ask very serious questions.

[00:44:24]>> Mhm.

[00:44:24]>> Yeah.

[00:44:25]But when a 12-year-old is caught in conflict with the law >> Yes.

[00:44:30]>> Umesema wanapelekwa to a rehabilitation or probation center of sorts, yeah?

[00:44:34]>> Yeah. They are given >> It's a prison for 12-year-olds, basically.

[00:44:36]>> Yes. And we call it rehabilitative care.

[00:44:39]>> No, but I just I want people to visualize. I I mean, it it it has got its own specific rules and regulations, but you wouldn't find it a normal high school >> Yes. Of course. Of course. Yes. Um and and >> And the people supervising them there are who? Police officers or they are children officers?

[00:44:57]>> Yes. Yes.

[00:44:57]>> But they are trained.

[00:44:59]>> Yes. Yes.

[00:44:59]>> As what? Police officers, psychologists, or as what?

[00:45:02]>> Uh they they are just children officers.

[00:45:05]>> Okay.

[00:45:07]>> of children office services has a they are called child protection >> officers. Okay.

[00:45:13]>> So the the child protection officers who are based in these rehabilitative and statutory institutions they also have extra uh training in how to handle children in conflict with the law.

[00:45:26]>> Okay.

[00:45:27]>> Yeah. So, um they have backgrounds.

[00:45:30]Quite a number of them have background in psychosocial support.

[00:45:35]Um rehabilitation counseling as well because quite a number of these children are abusing drugs.

[00:45:43]Uh alafu pia mental health. You could also be like what you've said, you could be dealing with a psychopath.

[00:45:49]>> Yeah.

[00:45:50]>> be dealing with a kleptomaniac.

[00:45:52]>> Mhm.

[00:45:52]>> Now unajua kleptomaniac, the the child doesn't have to be coming from a humble background.

[00:45:57]>> Yes.

[00:45:58]>> They have everything. But you know, we finish this interview and the next thing you start asking me, you know, you start asking city city wanna see me young too.

[00:46:06]>> [laughter] [laughter] >> I know. I know. It's It's I will tell you I witnessed that once in my life.

[00:46:19]>> Yes.

[00:46:20]>> I would call the money to get another motive.

[00:46:23]>> [laughter] >> And and It was so embarrassing.

[00:46:27]>> I can imagine.

[00:46:29]>> It was I know we didn't know that this person is >> Exactly. Exactly.

[00:46:34]>> It was so embarrassing when he was caught with that phone.

[00:46:40]Really?

[00:46:40]>> I know.

[00:46:45]>> Anyway.

[00:46:46]>> Yeah.

[00:46:47]>> Um some disorders.

[00:46:48]>> Yeah, they are. Yeah.

[00:46:50]I have a question about hysteria. Have you Have you encountered children with hysteria?

[00:46:55]>> Um maybe you can give like an example and then I can I can share our experiences >> So there's a time a friend of mine then it was the niece.

[00:47:05]Yes, the niece. Yeah.

[00:47:06]>> Yes.

[00:47:07]>> The niece had this what is a fun?

[00:47:11]I don't want to say fun too.

[00:47:17]The child either wakes up or doesn't wake up rather and then you just find them rolling over. So initially we thought as Africans machine turning.

[00:47:25]>> I know.

[00:47:26]>> [laughter] >> Hey, what you talking about? I'm a robot.

[00:47:29]>> Of course that was the first thing.

[00:47:31]>> Hey.

[00:47:32]>> Um but eventually we we we I I advised the family, "Look, can we take this child to hospital because she could actually be suffering from something and we are assuming here any machine turning."

[00:47:43]>> Yeah, or the child is just acting up.

[00:47:46]>> They're just being a spoiled child.

[00:47:49]>> So we took the child to to hospital and the doctor >> Mhm.

[00:47:53]>> was actually a camber.

[00:47:55]>> Okay.

[00:47:55]>> And when in the in the course of treatment I actually asked the doc doctor I called him camber.

[00:48:01]Yes.

[00:48:08]>> [laughter] >> Yes.

[00:48:18]Yes.

[00:48:19]Mhm.

[00:48:25]She was over. This nonsense was over.

[00:48:28]Oh my god.

[00:48:40]Yes.

[00:48:42]Yes. We encounter very many of those cases where children get panic attacks, where they get What else would anxiety attacks. We also have other conditions that are also like one we that is called selective mutism.

[00:49:00]Whereby the child does not talk. The anxiety has gone so high that it has left this child speechless.

[00:49:08]And we also have cases whereby when it's time maybe to go to school or the child has to go home The child freezes. Yes, because of anxiety. Okay, yeah. When anxiety levels go to the highest Yes.

[00:49:26]>> [laughter] >> I know.

[00:49:36]The child becomes paralyzed. And I remember you know, we've had so many cases whereby a parent calls and says, "Hey, my child when it comes to go to school my going to cut out going to the school."

[00:49:47]Or when they go or a teacher calls and says, "I have a child who never talks."

[00:49:53]>> Yeah.

[00:49:54]>> And once that child enters the school bus >> Yes.

[00:49:57]>> or the mother's car >> Mhm.

[00:49:59]>> [laughter] >> By you >> And when they're in school, they're not talking. So, all these are different forms of um disorders. I love to be a token of phobias. Children also develop phobias.

[00:50:11]Um they develop, you know, so many complications that are related to mental health.

[00:50:16]>> Yes.

[00:50:16]>> So, those cases we do receive.

[00:50:18]>> Okay.

[00:50:18]>> Now, we also refer them to specialists.

[00:50:21]And some of them we even give them tele-counseling where you can either engage with the children. They can go to the different sub-county children offices or we refer them to specialists.

[00:50:30]>> Okay.

[00:50:31]>> So, cases are all we get all cases. And one emerging trend is the online safety.

[00:50:37]Right now, children are being abused in the online space. That also is an emerging area whereby it's really picking up very fast. The internet is you know, it's moving at a very fast speed. Yeah, so those are also what we call emerging trends.

[00:50:52]>> Okay.

[00:50:53]>> Yeah.

[00:50:53]>> There's a comment or question, I believe.

[00:50:56]Yeah, it's a question.

[00:50:56]>> Yes.

[00:50:57]>> You miss Kyoko, this is your aunt, by the way.

[00:50:59]>> Yes, Aunt Kavindu. Hi, Auntie.

[00:51:01]>> [laughter] >> She's asking, "What percentage of kids in children's home are reunited with family? And do they make concerted efforts to trace them?" Actually, this like especially for the missing cases.

[00:51:11]>> Exactly.

[00:51:12]>> Are they ever reunited?

[00:51:13]>> Yes, they are.

[00:51:14]>> Mhm.

[00:51:15]>> They are and like I remember what I and I was reading for you the statistics from that document that I Uh from what was given in the Here we have lost and found children. 1,636.

[00:51:30]That is the data.

[00:51:31]>> reunited.

[00:51:32]>> They have been They are lost, they've been found, and they have been reunited.

[00:51:36]And then we also have lost and found, but they've not Their families have not come to >> to claim them.

[00:51:43]>> to claim them. So, the child was lost, they are found, so they they stay under the care of the state department.

[00:51:53]Then they are placed in statutory institutions. And right [snorts] now we have a department that is called alternative family care.

[00:51:59]So these children when they are found, they are placed in a family setting either through adoption or foster care or guardianship. Yes.

[00:52:07]>> Uh another one, this is Louis Louise, another one why do why No, I'll read this one later, but there's one on dormitories here.

[00:52:19]>> Yes.

[00:52:19]>> This is Vincent Ongeni. Vincent is asking, do we have national guidelines on dormitory standards and does the Ministry of Education enforce these standards? Are you aware of such?

[00:52:30]>> Yes. It is there. It's actually called a safety manual uh that has it's a very elaborate guideline that has been put together by the Ministry of Education.

[00:52:40]And it talks about disaster disaster management in the school environment and how you can respond to it. But more than that, it talks about having a safe and nurturing environment for children.

[00:52:52]>> Yes.

[00:52:52]>> And that is why when this fire, you know, breakouts start coming up, people have the they start asking questions like was there a risk management? Uh was there safeguarding policies in in in place? And that is why people are asking questions like and are these children trained when an emergency breaks out?

[00:53:15]>> How to handle themselves?

[00:53:17]>> Yes, yes. How how uh what do you do if a fire breaks out?

[00:53:21]>> Okay.

[00:53:22]>> Uh it's a fire drills. It could be in your manual, very elaborate. And that is why we we we are broken, you know, by this tragedy.

[00:53:30]>> John Mongai actually says any institution that does not practice emergency drills should not exist. That is fire drill it is in. Everyone needs to be prepared in case of an emergency.

[00:53:40]Louise in the cinema, why agree.

[00:53:43]>> Why think our public safety campaigns still focus on still focus so heavily on stranger danger and external threats, yet the vast majority of danger and external threats comes from people familiar with the children?

[00:54:01]Yeah.

[00:54:01]>> Mhm.

[00:54:02]>> Mhm.

[00:54:02]>> Yeah.

[00:54:04]I I I think this what I would say are some of the gaps that we are experiencing at the moment because every head of school is aware of these regulations. Yeah, so when these issues come up because you see 90% of the children die of because of stampedes.

[00:54:24]So, what is the school what do they do? What they put safeguarding measures because it all boils down to the child protection policy in that school.

[00:54:34]>> Okay.

[00:54:34]>> In addition to of course the the safeguarding the the safety manual that the Ministry of Education I think the heads of school have a heavy responsibility in determining the safety of children in the school setup.

[00:54:46]>> All right.

[00:54:47]>> Yeah.

[00:54:48]>> There are some ladies traveling to Butere.

[00:54:50]They have said they are tuned in that is Diana, Mueni, Leah, Muende, Violet, and their driver Samuel. They are saying they have loved the conversation. They are listening as they travel to Butere.

[00:55:03]I hope everyone else has captured this information and it's hopefully it's helpful to them. Give us your helpline again. And it it works. Yes.

[00:55:14]>> [laughter] >> We are ready to support the children of this great nation. I also want to add that we have a WhatsApp number. Yes. 0722 116116.

[00:55:28]You can chat with a counselor.

[00:55:30]When you whenever you make a call to the helpline, please note that it's a counselor who receives. And this counselor are trained in >> Okay.

[00:55:38]>> Yes.

[00:55:39]>> Thank you so much.

[00:55:41]This is where we shall come to a stop.

[00:55:42]>> Absolutely.

[00:55:43]>> All right.

[00:55:43]>> Yes.