TS26 | デジタル所有権の時代：Web3が創る新しい経済圏

Added: 2026-05-06

[00:00:08]Hello there, sir. It's been too long.

[00:00:10]>> Yes, just a few minutes ago. Yes.

[00:00:12]>> Yeah. Wonderful.

[00:00:14]>> All right. So, we're going to be talking about digital identity here. Um, the first question I have for you is what exactly is this uh era of digital ownership? What does this mean in plain English? explain it to me like I am my my mother. Oh my goodness, where do I start? Well, I mean, I think the very principle of ownership, which includes digital ownership, is from our perspective is essentially the principles of capitalism and our freedom, right? The fact that you can own your house and you own your property is the reason that you have the freedom to transact is the reason that you have these liberties in place, right? If you didn't own your property, regardless of what property that is, then you don't have the freedoms attached to it. Um, which by the way is also why economies that have more property rights and stronger property rights is why they can benefit and grow from that. Just take even not physical ones but even intellectual property rights like Japan is a hot sort of hot spot for that. Your manga, Japanese anime, intellectual property rights, you know, Sony, you know, whatever these things, all these things are intellectual property rights.

[00:01:21]They're virtual in nature, but they're actually protected by law. And that's why you have these industries and economies that then created technologies and you know like whether it's Toyota or Fujitsu, it's all IP related type of stuff. So now let's take it one level.

[00:01:35]What's digital ownership? What's digital property rights? It's the same idea but now it transcends into an area where you can prove digital ownership and have value that Bitcoin perhaps being the sort of you know originator of that idea that I can have digital property regardless of its value. I can now prove it right because uh and and I want to just go a little bit more philosophical here which is you know human writing was invented the ancient Samrians invented writing as a ledger right so in other words the the the infrastructure of why we invented writing which is the base of civilization came because I needed to prove who owned what cow. Right? This is your cow. this is your cow. How do I know that? When population grows, I put it on a tablet. That's when writing was invented some five six thousand years ago. Um, and so, you know, we can say finance is the sort of engine for that, but it's really ownership that provided that. And we don't have that in digital world per se except on blockchain because what's the most valuable thing uh in in online is our data, >> right? Yeah.

[00:02:44]>> And it's not owned by any of you. It's owned by the platform. And every time you post a photo on Instagram, every time you do something, you're feeding them, you're making them valuable, which is why they're worth trillions, by the way, and you're not getting paid any any for that. And so this is about reclaiming that property right back to you. Um maybe to your agents. Um but they're basically basically they're yours, and you derive that value from it. Um and that's why digital property rights is so important and blockchain is a way to do it. And Bitcoin was the first proof point in as to that being possible.

[00:03:17]>> Okay. So let's uh let's move forward and in in time and see that and imagine that uh digital ownership is um pervasive um right now in the internet age. So so far like you said these major platforms are have been the the beneficiaries of all of our uh information data everything like that. What does the economy look like when um digital ownership is everywhere? I'm assuming it's it's gonna increase be more productive.

[00:03:50]>> Definitely make it more productive. But let me just let's let's maybe talk about how does it get bigger. Okay. Right.

[00:03:55]Because it's easy to um like how one of the challenges is imagining well why was digital property really matter when most people can't understand its value. Uh and this is kind of where agents come in. Um so if I was to ask the audience here, I mean you all heard of AI agents, right? I don't mean like Gemini or ChatGpt. just mean like agents that do work for you. A raise of hands of how many people here think they'll have at least sort of one agent, one AI agent in the future.

[00:04:26]>> Oh, really? Only one hand? Seriously?

[00:04:28]Okay. Okay.

[00:04:29]>> Shy group.

[00:04:29]>> Shy group. All right. Fine. Um, how about like three agents?

[00:04:34]>> Okay. Interesting. A little bit more.

[00:04:36]All right. Anyway, so when I go talk to uh different audiences, typically most people say they'll have around three to five agents. I have 200 right now. Okay.

[00:04:46]Um but I'm not and I don't think I think of myself an outlier. We can talk about that a little later, but but uh you know, an agent could be your assistant, could be writing code for you, could be like a co-orker, right? Uh but generally the consensus is it's more than one. And so there's seven billion people online.

[00:05:04]So you do the math. If you're going to have three to five agents in your life in the future, you're going to have somewhere between 20 to 30 billion agents, right? Um, and for agents, the use of digital technology is natural.

[00:05:17]Code is how they exist. So in blockchain, think about it, right? One of the challenges we had in blockchain is, you know, hashes, metam mask, you know, encryption technology for an AI agent, easy to translate, super super transparent, right? um all the financial rails you know back in the days when you know we were involved in cryptokitties in 2017 millions of dollars would melt the blockchain it couldn't work and today we have you know because of that all the scaling solution now we can transact billions of dollars on blockchain you know with poly market with like you know Solana and that kind of stuff right and now all the institutions are now going on chain and saying I can use this technology because it works because it scales because it's valuable all that stuff But the primary user of this is going to be agents. But the agentic commerce aspect only works because I can have digital ownership. So if I'm an agent, can I have a bank account? I can't. Do I have a PayPal? Do I have some way of transacting? Am I going to use Visa, Mastercard? Right? I'm not going to do that. So I'm going to have a stable coin or I have a digital asset or it could be Bitcoin. and I can prove that it is Bitcoin and the other agent will accept it because he can basically say yes that is my thing right and so we will not have digital ownership because we ourselves are going to just use the digital asset in this way we're going to have digital ownership because our swarm of agents are going to utilize it whether it's for payment for ownership for transactions for you know whatever rwas and they're going to do that at scale right and the other thing you know like um is not to think of it in terms of transactions as in how we transact as humans because we transact as humans very intentional step by step. You might use your credit card, I don't know, 10 times, 20 times, maybe 30 times a day, right?

[00:07:06]>> Well, that's a lot.

[00:07:07]>> That's a lot, right? Okay. You know, if you're traveling or something, you know, um uh however, an agent will do at least 10 times, if not 100 times that amount in the same period of time, right? So, transaction fees and costs and efficiency and validation matter uh matter a whole lot, right? And that's actually where we think that future wiz and so we're going to have we think hundreds of billions of of agents around the world they're all going to be dealing with digital assets because that's the only medium they understand right and so this will expand the market and grow and I know everyone talks about oh AI is going to make people unemployed and that kind of stuff people talk about that the industrial revolution people talked about that when the internet came about people talked about all that stuff right and yes jobs have changed but the market grew right because the increase in productivity is going to explode as it has in every revolution and as the increase in productivity explodes so does the market and therefore the opportunity.

[00:08:03]>> So uh to summarize would you agree with this that digital ownership will be mostly for agents on behalf of people?

[00:08:13]>> Well I mean the owner of the agent is a human.

[00:08:15]>> Yeah.

[00:08:16]>> So from a delegated standpoint it's the human who owns it but it's the agent who can transact and deal with it. Um and that's that's how it's going to grow. U you know like one of the biggest friction points we had in with digital assets is how you own it. So the process of owning it is complicated. Um and also then we say okay well do you really want to keep using Facebook you know like all those social networks that were you know far caster and lens and so on right and it's hard because we're we've got our networks there and it's it's difficult right but an agent will just do everything for you. you don't you don't really you don't really care uh about sort of the friction point because for an agent there is no friction point it's just natural >> where does uh digital ID um get involved in this >> fundamental yeah fundamental >> both for the human and for the agents I >> well yes so human so digital identity what we're doing with mochaverse reason why so sort of heavily invested in that with Mocha ID is that um each of these agents will need identity maybe even more so than humans because we have a passport and we have that kind of stuff but an agent doesn't. And it's not even about whether the agent has his own reputation that's valid. It's also who owns the agent, right? Is it a credible person? Can I trust him? Right? And and it's it's kind of like, you know, how do we think about trust today? It's like where you work, for instance, where you went to school, right? You know, who's your family? You're already kind of measuring the kind of reputation that individual has. And then you will do business with that person or have a relationship with that person because of that background. That's how you validate. But with an agent, you have no idea who that person is, right? So in the web two world, we have ways of doing this. You know, fivestar ratings on Uber, you know, seller buyer ratings on Rakoten or on Amazon, right? Very primitive, but you can't own them and you can't take them away. But where this becomes wild is that when agents and agents do business with each other, it no longer becomes a central platform that adjudicates your reputation. It's the agent themselves that basically owns a reputation score that can basically then do business in a very very decentralized fashion.

[00:10:19]>> And that score would be on a blockchain somewhere.

[00:10:22]>> It would have to be blockchain because it belongs to you, right?

[00:10:24]>> I mean, and just think about, you know, um can you merge your Uber, Amazon, Airbnb, all those reputation scores into one and you can't. And that they don't want you to because they want you to be beholden to that platform. But I want to take it one level further because the digital identity is essentially the rails that allow commerce to happen because commerce can only happen with trust. So what is eBay or Amazon?

[00:10:50]They're basically agents of trust. You go there and you trust it. If you don't trust it, you won't do business with it.

[00:10:56]And the ratings give you trust. So the identity is the trust layer but in a decentralized fashion through blockchain that you can now business do business with each other knowing that I can trust you because there's a mechanism of reputation loss for instance or other consequences that might happen. But the next level is that you know because of agentic AI 90% of apps and software will all die. You're not going to be using software the way that you think you are because your agent is going to build your customized software for your restaurant in five minutes. It's just going to build stuff for you in a customized way. You can already do that today. So everything will just simply be, you know, you could talk to your agent. I need this customized thing. I need a travel service for my trip in Japan for like, I don't know, for one week. Boom, boom, boom, boom. It's done.

[00:11:41]Okay. Um, so that's all going to go away. So that means identity isn't going to be just attached for the agent. is also going to be attached to software.

[00:11:51]>> Ah, interesting. Right. Right.

[00:11:52]>> Because because the software has a reputation it needs to interact with agents as well. Right. So anyone can just write software. Malware is an example. So how do we deal with malware and software is we don't have software having a is a reputation by the company who built it. But now with digital identity, you can actually put a score to the software as a rating that other people use as well. Right? And that becomes a decentralized way in which everyone can work together much like you do on blockchain by validating this way without actually having to know your identity.

[00:12:22]>> Okay, one last really quick question. Uh Mr. Sui, I know it's going to be hard for you, but uh are there are there any uh examples of of like digital ownership uh via AI happening right now? Are there like the primitives being built or >> everywhere right now? I mean look uh so for our own with animal comma minds our own agents basically they all have a wallet and they all basically already transact and pay with each other through tokens right um but you know when you think about sort of AI agents currently trading I mean that's already happening again these are more PC's but it's already beginning right um because every agent can have a wallet right um so you know I think at this point we probably already have hundreds of thousands of agents still doing that >> so the wallet is the ID >> so the ID is you with Mocha ID for instance it would be like a soulbound um or it would be like an ID chain right uh that's attached to and you know we have format standards like 804 and so on like they're all emerging right um but the wallet is where you hold your assets >> right and of course you know you still need your cold wallet if you want to keep it safe you need still your multisig but effectively an agent wallet is like a hot wallet >> okay all right well thank you very much I know we could continue talking for a long time but uh appreciate it as as always >> thank