Tokenization + XRP = The Perfect Storm (What Nobody Is Telling You)

Ajouté : 2026-05-27

[00:00:23]Welcome everyone another episode of the turning points. Today we have our dear friend and guest Nathan. Welcome Versan as well. How are you guys doing today?

[00:00:35]>> Very good. Thanks for having me back on guys. Always a pleasure.

[00:00:39]>> Yeah, we missed you.

[00:00:40]>> It's been a while.

[00:00:41]>> Yeah, missed you.

[00:00:42]>> Been a while.

[00:00:43]>> It was a pleasure. I had some videos with you. Uh last two weeks we published two videos together. So, we had some amazing discussions and I wanted to bring this discussions to the turning point because two weeks have passed and I know you are doing some incredible stuff with artificial intelligence.

[00:01:01]We're going to be talking about this in this podcast as well, how that's tied to blockchain technology. We're going to be discussing tokenization and how that's also 100% correlated with XRP adoption.

[00:01:14]As Vers describes, that is the perfect storm. So it's going to be a very interesting discussion today. Also, I do want to apologize everyone. I'm quite tired today. It's like almost midnight in my time. So it's kind of difficult when you have US, Australia, and Europe in the same call. But we're making this possible for you. So we appreciate uh your support as well. So let's start with tokenization and then I think we can kind of swift I was going to say Swift. So use it to say Swift. we can then we can start talking about the artificial intelligence stuff. I think it's going to be very interesting. So, Versan, do you want to get started with tokenization?

[00:01:57]>> I mean, I just released a new article. I was trying to tell you guys a little about it before we begun here, but um you know, we've been talking about tokenization for a long time and just the way it's aggressively being marketed as the future of finance. Yes, it is.

[00:02:11]there's going to be a lot of liquidity, fractional ownership, uh 247 operations in the markets. Uh and that's really like the public narrative. There is definitely some upside to all of this.

[00:02:22]So, uh what I do want to explain to people though is that why are they actually rushing tokenization? It turns out if you read the book The Great Taking and kind of study the UCCC laws, um how they redefine the the laws really they rigged the international laws of finance to achieve this. But the fact that the global financial system is drowning in unsustainable debt and is facing a severe collateral shortage. So apparently the governments and the ones putting all these uh frameworks into place, they desperately need highquality verifiable uh assets so they can go ahead and continue new lending their derivatives and also the fact that they are so overleveraged themselves. And tokenization really solves their problem perfectly because it allows them to fractionalize real world assets and essentially take other people's assets and fractionalize those assets and it brings them under the institutional custody and their control through smart contracts and permission ledgers. So what I'm trying to tell people is that they actually intend to use people's homes, their stocks, their bonds. Um, and while people just earn a yield on that, but you know, the real concern here is just that there's a legal and operational terms that most people are not aware of. And I'm not trying to reject tokenization. Again, we've been touting this for a long time, but it's all about just seeing the picture clearly, and that's all I'm trying to do here. So, the technology itself, I think, is powerful, but the question always comes back to like who's governing that technology, right? But it's still tied to the fact that they've created a super debt cycle. And because it's the ultimate tool of upward wealth cons consolidation, then tokenization can only accelerate that. The good news though is that XRP really fits right into the center of this. And I think that's the part that a lot of people are still trying to understand. Uh because XRP is the plumbing. Uh if you really think about it, if they're going to push tokenization and expand their collateral base and consolidate control at the top, they simultaneously need to build the exact infrastructure uh that are the efficient uh neutral settlement rails to make that machine run very smoothly and on a planetary scale. So um what I'm saying is tokenization uh can't function on its own. It needs the other and that's the collateral layer with that they're constructing.

[00:04:42]So, they're going to need some reliable crossber plumbing underneath it. And I think that plumbing is XRP. So, happy to dive deeper into this with you guys, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[00:04:54]Nicely said, Versan. By the way, we discussed tokenization of pre-reward assets last week as well. And I want I see people in the comments saying that they didn't get the notifications that I was live. By the way, I'm not live streaming to my channel because the live was taken down by YouTube. Uh they say I violated their community guidelines last week, which is quite insane. So, I uploaded the episode to my Substack. So, today I'm not live streaming to YouTube because I'm waiting for their response if they're going to actually correct their mistake. But, it has been a very frustrating experience with YouTube overall. Now, Nathan, I want to hear your thoughts about the tokenization as well, please.

[00:05:38]>> Well, yeah, we're going to start to see this year, uh, July, I believe, is the pilot for the DTCC. We're going to start to see, um, stocks, bonds, whatever, traded. T+1, maybe not atomic settlement, but pretty close to it. and by October I believe their plan is very much to to roll it out in some sort of decent piloted fashion. So we really are on the cusp and to dovetail off your point Van with the you know the bedrock being some sort of high liquidity asset underneath to collateralize the system. Logically it is XRP. But where I think my brain's gone recently that I don't know if it's been talked enough about is this the the AI stuff. We won't go into it too much just yet because I know we we want to cover some more ground with tokenization, but I'll put it simply. You you will not have AI agents in the agentic economy transacting with bank accounts. They can't open a bank account. There's KYC.

[00:06:52]There's multi-day intermediaries. All the problems that we know too well from being in the XRP community. they can't transact. They need a source of truth.

[00:07:03]They need atomic settlement. They need finality um in seconds through API calls. So, they will not be using fiat.

[00:07:12]And once this tokenization sphere really kicks off and you've got all the assets under the umbrella, they won't need us. They might need us for a final sign off. Hey, this is your morning report. This is the business I want to do. these are the transactions I want to make and these are the counterparties these are the risks blah blah blah do you approve yes I approve thanks for coming done that's not going to happen through the traditional rails so the GDP of every western nation and efficiency is going to go through the roof with the agentic economy 100% they won't be transacting in anything other than cryptocurrencies stable coins of course but they don't have the liquidity that's necessary to scale. So that's where XRP comes in and it has to be under a couple of seconds and a few cents.

[00:08:09]That's my very train thought at the moment >> and >> very powerful. Yeah. If we had this, we spoke this in our call and I'm going to quote to you Nathan. And by the way, five years ago if we had this conversation, AI was not even going to be part of this episode. For example, we would not be discussing about artificial intelligence. Now, we take three years ago and I love your explanation. The intersection between blockchain technology and artificial intelligence was like here, right?

[00:08:38]And three years have passed and right now it's kind of here and it's just months away from overlapping over here.

[00:08:45]So it's coming closer. There's no doubt in a couple I don't know if couple of months maybe one two years there will be more transactions performed by AI agents instead of human beings. This is already a reality in the internet. We have more content that is AI generated. So the trend is that AI is going to surpass transactions performed by human beings which is scary and excited at the same time. Depends if you hold XRP or not, if you are positioning yourself by owning the infrastructure because as you said Nathan, it requires instant settlements.

[00:09:23]Those AI agents will not be interacting with bank accounts. Nostrastro account is something that's not going to have a pivotal role in the new financial system. Even the preeminent messaging system of the financial system which is Swift to some degree is going to have to reinvent itself if you if it wants to compete with these new uh sorts of transactions that are going to be on boarding on the blockchain. So I don't think Swift wants to be left out of the equation as well. I'm not saying Swift is going to disappear but we do have uncovered multiple proofs in the past that Swift has been integrating XP rails into its system. So we can see that the overlap is building up underneath the surface. If you study the ecosystem, you know that they have the technology ready. It's more about regulation and global coordination to the regulatory framework. So if you hold XRP, I think the future is very bright and this is not a financial advice, but it's 100% what I believe in my heart, especially when we have another factor right now that's going to speed up XRP adoption.

[00:10:29]As I said last week, being conservative, I I used it to think that I don't know, adoption maybe would happen before 2030.

[00:10:38]Now, I think it's going to happen way sooner. I think the window of opportunity is closing not only to for XRP adoption, but I also talking about building your business, leveraging AI technology, making a lot of money. I think this is soon becoming more difficult but right now we do have a huge opportunity and I that's why I want everyone to be taking part of this transformation as an active participant rather than someone that is just like a late adopter of a technology and this is what I want you Nathan later to explain to us how you have been integrating AI in your business I think that's going to be very exciting as well please make some thoughts to >> I just want to add on. Um Nathan said some very important things there, but as tokenization uh volume begins to explode, the demand for real settlement is going to explode with it. And it's going to be those um who provide the critical infrastructure that's the plumbing that's going to power this trans uh transition is really going to capture the out uh the value of everything. Um so that's very exciting.

[00:11:49]Uh I think there's a very bright future for XRP. The plumbing And as far as artificial intelligence, it's advancing faster than most people can comprehend. However, blockchain is becoming its perfect partner to be able to move value in the real world. And I think just the togetherness of these two uh disruptive technologies are creating something entirely new but very rare and that's an autonomous 247 global financial nervous system.

[00:12:22]Yeah, I like that financial nervous system.

[00:12:26]I just don't think it's actually been considered properly in like even 6 months ago. We hadn't reached the event horizon moment for AI. We knew of all the tokenization that was coming. We could see how the natural levers of our thesis within XRP as an investment were coming together. But even 6 months ago, I really didn't see us tipping past the event horizon with AI being able to literally do pretty much everything. And you can build anything with Claude code, like anything. I I mean it that just was not there even I would say three months ago.

[00:13:20]And we've passed that point. The point of no return has come and gone. And extrapolating that out is really hard to do. But with these simple philosophical questions, you can start to see that once blockchain does marry up with AI and all the other levers that we talk about and have talked about for many years.

[00:13:49]It's almost impossible to comprehend what that looks like. Um, UBI is probably a big part of it.

[00:13:58]But, uh, yeah, but it's exciting, too.

[00:14:03]You You look at it. I I I'm sure a lot of people are scared by it, you know, jobless potentially, but there is so much opportunity if you embrace it right now and you frontr run it. And I think you'd be silly not to try and leverage these tools like Claude costs. Even if you pay 50 bucks a month, just get into Claude Code and start watching YouTube videos how to build things and improve improve your efficiencies. Whether it's a small business or even if you're just working a 9-to-F5 in your spare time, play around with it and try to figure out how you can leverage that technology to to make some extra money. and invest in the assets that are going to stand the test of time on the other side.

[00:14:52]That's certainly what my attitude's been and it's just I think it's the right one. Um cuz there you're not going to get anywhere if you're fearful of it.

[00:15:06]>> Very important. Um Ido, you want to make some thoughts?

[00:15:11]Yeah, just to conclude, if you think about it, uh cryptocurrencies are the currency in the AI realm. So, it's 100% going to be a very important factor to the adoption of digital assets into the new world economy. And of course, we're not saying it's going to integrate only XRP, but of course, you need instant settlement. So it leaves out of the equation cryptocurrencies like Ethereum, like BTC that are outdated, have high transactional fees. Think about it just to activate a wallet. If you activate an XRP wallet, how long does it takes? You can do it in less than like 15 or 10 seconds. If you have to do the same on Ethereum, it takes an eternity. You need to fund the wallet with gas fees. Uh Nathan remind me there is a a feature in in cloud where you can already give it a prompt and it will open XRP wallets.

[00:16:08]Isn't that correct?

[00:16:10]>> Yeah.

[00:16:12]On our video, right?

[00:16:13]>> Yes. Yeah. So, it'll just build within your your device um the wallet itself and you can Yeah. You can fund it. Um, it can make it instantaneously.

[00:16:31]Uh, you know, I've I've actually, shout out to Lewis Jackson. He's kind of pivoted a lot recently and done a lot of AI stuff. You can build so many crazy things. Like, I've built my trading bot.

[00:16:43]I mean, I've built I got this thing to look through a lot of Francis Hunt's philosophy and also mine. And this thing will now send me a telegram message when those volatility funnels are forming so that I can look at what it what the asset is and make up my own mind whether I want to invest in it or not. So I have a permanent bot running in a cloud server right now that just scans the markets, public markets, crypto markets. Uh, and then I told you guys offline like about the Cashew um AI executive that I built called Lloyd. Lloyd sits there and he is now basically our standin CEO. He the sales team refer to him. Um, the customer success team refer to him. He produces all of our reports. He produces all of our lead generation. He can do anything. Anything. And that's all just built within a couple of weeks using Claude code. So it doesn't matter what business you're in or where you're at.

[00:17:51]Like I'm not a coder. I've run businesses, but I'm not a coder. And an engineer I should say you there's just so much to leverage right now. Um, and I think to your point, the fact that it does that so quickly shows you and potentially answers one of the biggest questions we've had for a long time, which is what gets you to mass adoption. Mass adop adoption. So, through retail, we've never got there. I until recently, I didn't think we were even close. We've all just been waiting on the institutional adoption for this asset class >> which has kind of happened through ETFs but you know not really at any sort of meaningful scale.

[00:18:40]Mass adoption I truly believe comes from mindless participation. They don't even know they're participating. And that question was always how well how does that happen? How do we get to a point where everyone is mindlessly participating in the ecosystem? And I think for a long time we thought well that's probably going to be CBDC's and that'll be that'll come through force and you know um some sort of global event but now I actually think that mass adoption comes from this because you don't have to think anymore like people very soon in businesses and people that are man managing agents or people that have never used crypto before they'll go on. I think like Moon Pay, we've used this example. Moonay already have an agent built in that can take you through the whole onboarding super quick so that there's no they don't even have to know how it's all done, but they end up with their wallets and they're all they're all set up.

[00:19:45]The agents will get you get us to that point. I'm I'm convinced 100%.

[00:19:51]There'll be mindless participation which will definitely boost the uh the mass adoption but the mass adoption is indirectly actually through the agentic economy >> 100% and that's why we call it the invisible plumbing of the financial system because at the end of the day I I have this thoughts that everyone virtually is going to be transacting on the XRP ledger network but only a vast minority ity are actually going to own the physical infrastructure, the digital infrastructure. So even AI agents, if they're going to be operating multiple wallets, each wallet requires a certain amount of XRP to be locked. Every transaction adds a compound effect because it starts to burn more and more XRP. So you're going to have like millions of transactions on a daily basis constantly burning XRP. Then you have the tokenization aspects of the the this equation which is also going to put more pressure on the XRP supply and this just keeps adding on and on and we can talk about financial institutions adapting to the new financial system where nostraost accounts are set to become obsolete and at this point if you don't have nostro accounts of course XRP is set to replace those nostravastaster accounts the prefunded accounts and this also means that because there's this ridiculous claim that I have seen sometimes that people say the same XRP can be used over and over again but that's not how liquidity works. You need to own the liquidity in order to utilize the liquidity. So central banks will need to hold certain amounts of XP into their balance sheets. It's not going to be a small amount. I think it's going to be like 5 10 millions of XRP per financial institution and a lot of people get the idea that what's going to drive XRP price. I wrote an article about this by the way is going to be central banks however I want to also get on this. I think the central banks and also monetary authorities they have already secured their XRP through the escrow. So that doesn't necessarily make the price go up, but they already secured the the fraction. What's going to increase the price in my humble opinion, and it's not the financial advice, is the fact that private banks, and we're talking about that there's more than 20,000 I I go do some research on that. There is estimated about 20,000 private banks in the world. So if these banks will participate in the new financial system which they will they don't want to be left out and I don't think the private banks have privileged information like the IMF like the bank of international settlements or the central banks this is a small cartel but the central banks are the ones that are going to have to go get their XRP from the open markets when they find out about the reality and the reality is that in order to function in an economy that require instant settlements, you need to hold digital assets and that's when in my opinion we're going to have a massive supply shock.

[00:23:08]>> That's a good point. Definitely. I wanted to just leave one more thought into this um AI aspect before I forget it. Chris Lson ever since the beginning has always said they're striving towards the internet of value.

[00:23:26]>> That's right. I think it now becomes clear to us XRP holders what he was talking about all along. You know when the internet finally gets connected with currency. So I think it's the TCIP is sort of what connected the information but nothing is connected value yet. like the value is fragmented and to to the start of the show we talked about the tokenization brings it on chain and then all you need that's left to infuse the internet of value is is the plumbing and it is the the liquidity layer and no other asset has the interledger protocol which means it can function incredibly across um assets classes. That's unique to XRP.

[00:24:23]No one else has ODL and no one else has the permission decks. The DEX, the decentralized exchange where all these asset classes can be used in transactions. You can extract proportionally from different assets in these value transfers. The tech stack that XRP has is light years from anyone else. And of course their business case behind them is light years from anyone else. No one can come along. Maybe someone comes along with Claude and makes a better coin. Doesn't matter.

[00:25:00]They don't have trust. Trust is the key element. No one in the space has as much trust as Ripple. They've spent 20 years almost building that trust. That doesn't just disappear overnight. You can't you can't just get rid of that. Um, so just remember that as an XRP holder that, you know, we're really we really are poised and to's point the the those types of um price movers will kick in in panic as well. And the holding of our asset across institutions is ultimately going to drive it because they're going to have to carry it to um participate in those exotic ODL corridors.

[00:25:46]Nicely said, Nathan Versan want to add to his points as well.

[00:25:51]>> Yeah, I totally agree. Um, just I'm glad to have you back, Nathan.

[00:25:56]It's nice to hear uh such a wellthoughtout explanation. Um, but I, you know, to align with your thinking, I I think XRP is going to decouple when the system really demands it. And I definitely think it's tied into what you're talking about as far as the artificial intelligence because that seems like >> the real driver of this transformation and uh you know for a lot of the people out there uh they see a stagnant price of XRP and try to give them some context right it still trades inside of a speculative market and framework right now because it's correlated to the broader risk and on the narratives but I think that phase is temporary um you know I I think you have to look at this from a different standpoint about that XRP is the asset engineer to settle the value between the systems that do not trust each other whether it's artificial intelligence or not. But um another thought is you know it seems that XRP was never really built to function in these traditional markets even though it can bridge it. Um maybe it was just built to function when the traditional markets no longer can function, you know, and that's how it kind of consolidates uh settlement and that's exactly what they're rebuilding here. If you look at each of these institutions really they're uh utilizing this technology and rebuilding it through tokenization as well. Um so it's just it's very interesting to see how this is all um coming into place but I think there will be a decoupling at some point and it doesn't have to happen through some announcements. It's going to be enforced by raw necessity. I think at that point XRP's valuation is going to stop being you know at these low prices. It would have to function at a very very high price uh to factor in all that liquidity uh at any given time.

[00:27:52]100% agree with sum. By the way, the XRP ledger has the first ever built index operating since 2012. You can literally tokenize anything of value on the XP ledger. You can create, for example, a digital representation of gold within the DEX itself, a permissionless DEX.

[00:28:10]You can then trade gold versus other assets. You don't you don't need a direct pair between gold and XRP or gold and a stable coin. You can have pairs between gold and silver if you tokenize both on the ledger. So, it's just light years ahead of any other blockchain existence. And of course, that's only possible in a robust ledger that's basically functioning, operating 24 hours per day, 7 days a week, no downtime ever. You don't trust me? Ask the Solana holders how how that feels.

[00:28:44]It's how it's done on a weekly basis because there's this arguments that Solana does a lot of transactions per second. Yeah. But go check how is the robustness of Solana network. It's basically house down on a weekly basis.

[00:28:58]The same happens when BTC network is overly congested. So, as you said Nathan, it's actually not only about the technology, but also the connections within the ecosystem. the trust that takes decades to build. Ripple has been this in this space for an eternity.

[00:29:17]Actually, they are part of the system.

[00:29:19]It's not that they are outsiders. So, it's basically unbeatable. That's that's my view on this one.

[00:29:26]>> Completely.

[00:29:28]>> Yeah. between between that exchange of value, the decks that you just mentioned, humans aren't capable in the future to they're not going to need to decide what proportional dollar value comes out of each asset class in that transaction. So if you're a business, say you're, you know, selling your business eater to someone and an agent is mediating the transaction, which is likely, like my Lloyd that I've built will be doing this, then he Lloyd's going to tell me where we should extract the liquidity from and how it can be done. And it's going to be done through the, you know, the decks for instance, cuz no one no one else has that right now.

[00:30:20]That's just one example. Um, that's why, you know, like Black Rockck's in the title today. That's why Larry Finkelstein wants to tokenize everything because once everything's tokenized, they're no longer they're they're illquid assets are now constantly liquid. Everything is liquid, but you need an arbiter of truth in that liquidity exchange. And there's only one tech stack in my opinion that stands up for that test that can be the arbiter of truth. And he even said, I've done those viral videos with him and Katherine Austin Spitz.

[00:30:58]Um he said at uh Davos, I think it was earlier this year, that they want one common blockchain. He said a one common blockchain where they can move their value. That's exactly how he said it and exactly how he described it. So, you know, that's probably why we haven't seen a Black Rock ETF just yet. And >> I think if you read between all these lines and the linguistic choices of the elites, like we've discussed in the past, it becomes it just becomes increasingly clear that we're going to get to this this point um of serious no return. And I don't even know if Ripple fully know it yet with all the David Schwarz stuff that's happened.

[00:31:49]>> Yeah, >> I don't know if they fully comprehend.

[00:31:53]>> You can be sure there are people inside Ripple that don't fully comprehend the big picture. I mean, the ones really behind Ripple are not showing their faces and coming to XRP meetups. So, you can be sure there are lots of people inside Ripple that are not even aware of the big picture. I'm not saying that we know all of the truth, but we have done the research. By the way, you just mentioned now how excerpt is going to be at the epicenter, Nathan, and this is just another confirmation. I did some research like five years ago. I I uncovered one presentation by bankers in Milano, which it was in Italian. I think I mentioned this a couple of times. It was called salot de pagmenti room for payments. That's basically what it meant. And uh they were discussing about the the blockchains that would be chosen for payments. And they came to the conclusion that most cryptocurrencies wouldn't survive. They had a panel, a presentation that was all in Italian. I remember I translated I'm Italian by the way. So I translated all of that to my uh Twitter account back there and it came out that the survivors I mean the the blockchains that would thrive in the new world economy. This presentation by the way was not meant for the public eye and they had a couple of blockchains including HAR algorith as well but what caught my attention is that in the center they had XRP as the pivotal one you know although the future is multi-chain they were signaling XRP at the epicenter of this presentation.

[00:33:36]Yep.

[00:33:37]>> I have this commented by the way.

[00:33:40]>> Also, there's the Bank for International Settlements, uh, and the IMF. They're working very closely with Ripple. I mean, this is so obvious at this point.

[00:33:47]They even have a money flower, which is very private. You know, the fact that that got leaked out from some deep researchers. Actually, it was Lynette Zang who shared this with us a few years ago. And uh, when I asked her, "Well, what's a money flower?" She said, "Well, it's the Bank for National Settlements.

[00:34:03]It's a private blueprint about how the future of the monetary system was going to work. They had XRP in the in the private digital money quadrant along with gold, a basket of commodities, and if I'm not mistaken, XLM too. Uh so I mean, >> they had XLM there as well. I forgot to mention.

[00:34:21]>> Yeah. But you know at this point there's a lot of other protocols being developed coming out and it's important to reiterate that the the financial system that's being built right now it's not being built by chance right it's being engineered in such a way through uh multiple layers of interoperability where each layer of this interoperable use case these specific functions are being targeted by certain blockchains right you have money you have liquidity you have settlement you have interoperability ility. But what's interesting is how the XRP ledger can tackle each of these issues as well, you know, and I I've always thought like I want to hear what your thoughts are on this, Nathan, but if if you look at the IMF and how XRP has been on its path to really becoming some sort of global reserve currency status. And how do they do this? If you look at the old rules from the Brettonwoods moment, there were so many pillars that had to align. You had to have sovereign adoption.

[00:35:24]You had to have regulatory clarity. I'm not talking about the Clarity Act, right? But you had to have institutional recognition, which ultimately did come from the IMF.

[00:35:35]And I find that very interesting because where what they've been doing and building out are pretty much the frameworks for this to unfold in real time. So I just think there's a time and place for all of this. Uh when it's going to unleash definitely I mean the be are now on to like to to sift through a lot of the noise. There's so many different, you know, well, not so many. There's the handful of key central banks. XRP's got coverage across all of them. We know this.

[00:36:12]But to simplify things a little bit, if you just fix your eyes on the BIS, it all becomes quite clear. You know, Project Agora is their latest thing. Um, it is literally it's like they've cut and paste copy in their PDF and presentation from the Ripple playbook, Project Agora. We talk I think we've talked about it before on this show, but go look it up. And it's a public private collaborative effort, meaning they are consulting or contracting a private company to facilitate this build and you know who's that going to be. So that's done in conjunction with the double if um which is another one of these I like to call them economic amalgams. They're not a central bank. They're like a steering body which the legacy families have their fingerprints across. And to your point, Van, it's it's really just a matter of time. I think we're getting close. Uh we just need that that final card to fall in the house of cards. Uh and it's it's it's going to happen cuz they are ready. I I really believe now they're that they're they're ready. Once the T plus0 stuff comes online, we're really looking at probably a couple of year horizon. I do think it's all wrapped up and roaring by 2030 is is where I'm where I'm at.

[00:37:52]>> Yeah. I mean, it's the convergence of regulation, monetary policy, and the infrastructure, and that's all coming together. It's just accelerated.

[00:38:05]>> Well, we spoke about the great sides of the equation, but we can't live the dangerous sides also. And I think we can touch on the massive unemployment that are coming because of artificial intelligence.

[00:38:18]There is a huge percentage of jobs that are about to be wiped out. We can also discuss more about tokenization of real world assets. I know Versan wrote a brilliant article about this that was very controversial. I mean controversial not for us but for people that don't fully comprehend the big picture and how that's a threat to on to real ownership and that's why it's important to be protecting yourself with cold wallets, digital assets and precious metals. You want to make some thoughts about the article for son?

[00:38:50]>> I mean yeah kind of like I covered in the beginning I encourage everyone to read it. I actually made it free for everybody. Okay. So you don't have to pay because it's really that important.

[00:38:59]Um, like any technology, as I said in the beginning, there there are pros and cons, right? It's the governance really what I'm afraid of because I wouldn't say I'm afraid, but it's really black rock. It's the World Economic Forum. Uh, it's the very same institutions that have been really screwing people for a very long time, that have their fingers in all of this, who are aggressively pushing this. And interestingly, these very same institutions are aggressively utilizing the Ripple uh network uh the XRP for the plumbing of this new financial system. So again, there are some pros and cons. It's just the fact that they're going to be taking people's assets and using them as collateral. Um so I'm this is why I encourage people self-custody. Um, maybe people don't agree with me on this, but the thing is if you have it inside institutional custody, you essentially may benefit from certain things, but at the same time, it's not really yours. Okay? Um, I just want people to understand that you do have a choice. Okay? And I think it's very important for people to actually, you know, take take action and really protect their assets because the truth is they're not telling people the other side of the story. And you hear a lot about tokenization. I'm guilty of this, too. I I do tell people about the pros and how it could drive the price of XRP up and so many things, but we have to understand the legal realities that are being exposed here as well. And the great taking really explains all of this.

[00:40:33]uh all I did was take the great taking from David Roger Webb's brilliant analysis about how they rigged the laws of international finance to achieve these goals and these policies. This is all policydriven. And what I did is I broke down his thesis and bridged into what we talk about here. And when you look at the collateral shortages that we see in the financial system today, even the bond market is having a global crisis right now, it makes perfect sense why they're trying to push this. Uh so I just want people to engage with the technology but have some genuine um self-custody exposure because I think anyone who really sees the what's happening here they understand that they need to secure their position and I think the best way to do this is own the technology but hold it privately until we understand uh how this is going to unfold.

[00:41:22]>> Lovely person. By the way today I just had this conversation. and I interviewed an international lawyer that was talking about an upcoming regulatory framework is a draft that's taking place in South Africa. We went on detailed on that and by the way they even writing about it's still a draft is not a reality yet but giving power to airport agents to actually seize your phone for example if you are trying to move digital assets outside of South Africa. So it starts with bricks nations. Of course if you have self custody that doesn't matter at all. That's another reason why you need cold wallet. It's better to be prepared before such regulations are enacted into law. Of course it's South Africa. Maybe you are not from South Africa. You think it's not a problem. But they have global coordination. It starts in South Africa.

[00:42:13]Then it starts with other BRICS nations.

[00:42:15]Then before you realize it's also happening to your country. If anyone wants more, you can watch that in my channel. But I think the whole point here is that it's better to be prepared and this involves securing the digital assets that are going to run the infrastructure of the financial system and make sure you don't have those funds sitting centralized exchanges because I do believe we were discussing about that Nathan that maybe they have paid actors out there. Who knows? David Schwarz, I'm not accusing him, but he's playing out with the emotion of investors. He's coming out with very controversial statements. Either he doesn't fully understand the big picture, as we were explaining before, or they are really trying to shake out retail investors.

[00:43:00]And there's only a couple of ways they can shake out XF investors. One of them is by collapsing centralized exchanges.

[00:43:08]This has happened multiple times in the past where people lost billions of dollars with FTX or Terra Luna ecosystem where they crashed a stable coin remember and the the Luna stuff there.

[00:43:20]So be very mindful of these threats.

[00:43:24]Another thing that I like to discuss I can discuss this with you guys is the implementation of wholesale CBDC versus retail CBDC.

[00:43:34]Because if wholesale CBDC happens before retail, in other words, if we have first institutional adoption before retail, which I think is is the case, we might see huge price appreciation for digital assets and then people are going to see huge numbers on their portfolios. And the first thing they're going to do, they're going to sell for fiat currencies. And here comes the problem.

[00:43:57]If you sell XRP for obsolete fiat currencies because let's understand if XRP goes up in price there's a high chance we are moving transitioning already to a new system and if you actually exchange XRP for fiat currencies like stable coins or dollars for example you now have a programmable form of money in the new economy and this is in my opinion one of the greatest dangers for XRP holders and I want to hear your thoughts on that one.

[00:44:28]Yes, probably at the first part of your point, you talked about the security and safety. I'll touch on that real quick.

[00:44:36]Here in Australia, uh for the US listeners, they proposed in our budget the 30% now fixed capital gains tax. We also have proof of ownership of cold storage rolling out whereby if you try to transfer your crypto out of an exchange here, they won't allow it to go to a cold storage unless they know that it's yours. So that kind of defeats the anonymity of the cold storage in itself. So there's a lot of um concerns around that. Uh and I think you know our friends over at MM Law Edo are certainly pioneering in routes to help with a lot of these concerns not just in South Africa but also here in Australia.

[00:45:33]So for the listeners that are interested in trying to navigate some of these concerns, highly recommend having a chat with them. But um what was your final point towards the end of your point? Lost my >> I have raised concerns for the implementation of wholesale CBDC before retail CBDC because digital assets might go up in price and then people are going to be trading the digital assets which have real world utility for stable coins which are going to be of course a programmable way of currency is basically a CBDC. So imagine now you have 10 million bucks but first a currency that's subject to inflation hyper hyperinflation and second that you don't get to spend this money as you wish. So that's why for me my plan is not selling XRP.

[00:46:24]>> Yes. Yes. And that is a a spot on point because you're ultimately selling into that second tier system the UBI system.

[00:46:34]I think Van, you coined it many years ago, actually, probably three, four years ago. I remember you saying that in the endgame, there's going to be a two-tiered system. There'll be the elites. There'll be the people that held strong and with these digital assets got upgraded into the top tier system. And then there's going to be tier 2, which will likely be the people that are on the UBI and and engaging in not just the CBDC's, but the the the digital representations of certain currencies that are trackable, traceable, and all the rest of it. So, you're right. like if you're going to sell back into that system, then you're leaving yourself wide open to just falling into um that second tier, and it doesn't really make sense. Now, that's not to say taking profits isn't healthy.

[00:47:27]Of course, it is.

[00:47:29]Uh but just having that balance I think and that foresight is is certainly going to be important as we we move towards that end state.

[00:47:43]Nice point. Yeah, the point also I'm going to be taking some profits down the road, but the point is to not sell your entire back. That's that's a huge mistake in my opinion.

[00:47:55]F.

[00:47:55]>> You have some more thoughts, Nathan?

[00:47:59]You go for it.

[00:48:01]>> Okay. Well, um, again coming back to the thesis really it's the technology itself that's powerful, but who is it in the hands of? We have to always start with that question, I think, because it's the same institutions that actually created the super debt cycle where now all of this and the shift is to a degree becoming, I would say, the ultimate tool for upward wealth confiscation, consolidation, but also control, right?

[00:48:26]Um so really the people who do understand how this is playing out and you guys just explained it very well uh really position themselves on the right side of the rails because those are the ones who can actually protect and grow their wealth through this next phase right um instead of becoming uh part of the collateral of how they're doing this. So if we like think about it, if you they want you to believe that a retail CBDC and a wholesale CBDC and even a stable coin is different. Uh the truth is they're not at the core. What are they? It's programmable money. Uh digital currencies whose rules, restrictions, and usage can be coded, monitored, enforced in real time. It was Augustine Karsten's who said this from the Bank for International Settlements.

[00:49:14]Everybody has has seen the video, I think. So, it's really the illusion of choice. Uh, what I was trying to tell people before, you know, it's like um maybe maybe we have a shot at building a parallel financial system. Now, if you're holding the technology that is essentially the plumbing for this two-tier banking system, and that's the way the bank for international settlements described it, then I think you really operate to a degree outside of their central bank digital currency system. You know what I mean, guys? So um I I have written about it in the past uh but I think it's uh just the logical way to approach this and why would you sell your digital assets that are indeed going to play the most critical and useful role in the digital financial asset landscape uh back into something that's depreciating. Now, to your point, Nathan, I'm not saying not take profits either, but that's why you have to have a uh multiple tiered strategy, I guess.

[00:50:15]Invest in different things. Um, you're making a lot of money in Tron right now, if I'm not mistaken. Okay.

[00:50:21]>> Right.

[00:50:22]>> Tron's been good. Yeah.

[00:50:23]>> Okay, great. You know, you're making money in there. You still have your XRP position. You are not touching it. You are anticipating bigger things with it.

[00:50:32]So if you wanted to take profits, you could take profits from Tron later on down the road and buy more real real assets, physical gold, physical silver, maybe some land, pay off some debts if you have any. You know, >> we did this multiple times with SHX versus >> Yeah, I mean, I've made more than $200,000 and change with SHX alone. Uh that doesn't include some of the other things. Uh, it's been quite choppy and volatile right now. So, I'm not going to lie, I'm holding a large position to sell 80% of SHX, but I'm waiting for more quantitative easing, more money printing. They're going to print the currencies into oblivion. That's the only way they can sustain this. So, if you know they're going to be printing money, have some exposure to some of the other assets. And interestingly, SHX is being regulated by the very same authorities. And long time ago, we talked about this. Ripple was investing in SHX's infrastructure which is part of the Ripple I mean the stellar network.

[00:51:31]So there's a 5050 calculated risk over there. Either money printing gets it to go higher from whatever it is right now.

[00:51:38]It's under a penny uh or it could be regulations, you know, so you can make a lot of money, rotate that into physical assets with those profits but still not have to touch your XRP position. The problem is I've noticed so many people get wiped out from XRP because they're holding it indefinitely, but they're only holding XRP and waiting for these price predictions, these riddles, um people coming out with uh dates. I mean, we don't put dates on anything. We just explain the plumbing. But if you followed our strategies, speaking to the audience, right? Um you definitely have made money. I have made people a lot of money in this ecosystem. And I've made even good calls on precious metals which has preserved that money as well. So >> the last two years what we made here is made several calls about on the right timings for SHX for precious metals versus you spoke about gold, silver, platinum, copper is making new all-time highs by the time we speak. So yeah, I think >> yeah, we're in the early stages of a super cycle for commodities. Yeah, >> that much is quite clear. Commodities are being integrated back into the financial system and as we've all reported here together for many times it intersects directly with the blockchain ecosystem completely. I think that's one good psychological point to emphasize and you brought it up then stop waiting on XRP moon date like a lot of people >> and look I've been guilty of it as well.

[00:53:20]There's nothing nothing more than all of us want for it to just finally happen.

[00:53:26]But it's a slippery slope because if you remain pragmatic, agile, and dynamic with the world we're in now, there's so much money to be made.

[00:53:39]>> Yeah.

[00:53:40]>> Right now. And then you can just protect your XRP position. You keep it simple.

[00:53:45]and the precious metals which you know you just you just sit you know where you know what the end destination is. It's all going to crash and burn and we're going to be sitting at the end happy and happy as Larry with the right asset. So you just you just protect that and add to it where you can.

[00:54:07]>> Yeah, >> I think >> I think you nailed it. That's it.

[00:54:13]We can we are close to the 60 minutes and guys I am very tired today.

[00:54:18]>> I know man >> you know if we can wrap up. I made it to the end. I was thinking I was going to quit before but I said no let's make it.

[00:54:28]>> Yeah I'm tired too.

[00:54:31]>> Good stuff guys. Thanks for having me on.

[00:54:33]>> Yeah we appreciate it to have you Nathan. For the audience audience when I start like this I can't speak English anymore. It's like 12:15. I've been awake since early in the morning. I'm not like Nathan that he wakes up like 6:00 in the morning, but 8 9 is very early for me in Europe. So, let us know in the comments where you guys are based. So, you help us to boost the algorithm. Versan, any final thoughts?

[00:54:59]>> I just want to say thank you both. I know you're very tired. Dido and Nathan, thank you so much for coming on. We really miss you and you're always welcome here anytime.

[00:55:08]>> Thanks, guys. We appreciate you here Nathan and you have very unique insights. Keep working on the AI stuff.

[00:55:15]I don't have time to learn everything about cloud now but I do want to know everything that you are learning. So do us a favor. Keep building that and bring us some updates especially when you learn to integrate XRP on that.

[00:55:33]>> Yeah.

[00:55:33]>> Cheers guys. Take care. Bye.

[00:55:36]>> Thank you everyone. We're going to see you next Tuesday. Yeah.