Working with What Arises: A Brainspotting Masterclass for Clinicians

Added: 2026-05-30

[00:01:53]Hi everybody. I saw people signing in from Austria, Australia, New York, Connecticut, California, Ireland, all over the place. So, it's really nice to have this global community. It's just remember you're not just looking at the box here. you're connected to a lot of wonderful professionals and folks all around the world. So, welcome everyone.

[00:02:11]And I'm really excited about tonight because David is one of my favorite people in the world. He knows that. Uh, and I love his work. His work is a huge contribution to trauma resolution and all sorts of other healing that needs to happen through brain spotting. And I guess I'll give you a little bit of his bio. I'll get to his slide up to tell you a little tiny bit of all of the wonderful things he does. Um I met first of all I met David a long time ago at an inter well I don't even know what in year that was but an intergener inter international trauma conference in Israel and we had a strong connection there and we've been uh collaborating and chatting over the years uh since then and he's uh just an amazing person that has so much to contribute so much wisdom to share with us tonight uh he's mainly one of the main things is developer of brain spotting which is really a groundbreaking relational and sematic brainbody therapy method that's very very effective. We've had the pleasure of David being on our programs before and the demos he does are just really amazing. He's going to share one of those experiences with us tonight which I'm really excited about. Always love watching David work and he's of course an internationally recognized lecturer trainer in trauma healing and performance coaching who has taught thousands of protect practitioners in various fields. He's the author of Brain Spotting: The Revolutionary New the Therapy for Rapid and Effective Change, and the upcoming book, which you can't wait to see, The Evolution of Brain Spotting. You'll have to tell us where you are with that, David, when it's coming out. Um, he does a lot of humanitarian work, including assisting survivors of 911, Hurricane Katrina, and Sandy Hook. So, David, welcome. I'm so excited that you're here tonight.

[00:03:53]>> Uh, you >> today, I guess I'm It's night for me, by the I'm in Greece and David's in New York. So, it's it's it's probably 1:00 his time and about uh 8:00 my time at the any in the evening. So, we're coming from different time zones.

[00:04:07]>> Anyhow, it's it's it's always an honor to uh to be here and uh and to have a chance for us to for me to not just present, but for us to interact, which you know, because we're always excited about what each other is doing. So, everybody gets a chance to share with that.

[00:04:23]>> Wonderful.

[00:04:25]So, um, my my book, The Evolution of Brain Spotting, is coming out in February 2027. So, we're looking at, you know, about 10 months now, nine months.

[00:04:35]It counts down every month. And, uh, uh, it's going to be uh, my first book came out in 2013.

[00:04:44]And it's it's like brain spotting now is a completely different modality because uh there's there's so much more to it, but the way that we understand it and contextualize it is is so advanced from what it was. And the book is called the evolution of brain spotting because brain spotting never stays in one place.

[00:05:03]Brain spotting is always evolving. So, any of you who've heard me speak in the past, you're likely uh uh to hear me say some things that you've never heard me say before. And for those who are hearing me the first time, if you hear me again in the future, the the the same will hold true. So, >> that's great.

[00:05:23]>> Yeah. uh you know we were just having a little dialogue on this and and uh uh what I think is interesting is that when people talk about sematic therapy for the most part they don't think about the visual system and visual orienting you know which is is kind of interesting because it's it's there for all of us you know uh it's the way that it's it's the primary way that we interact with our our environment Um and and it's also the primary it's a very profound way that trauma is experienced and trauma is registered you know and it doesn't just go into the eyes and then the eyes are the the pathway into the nervous system and to the lyic system the autonomic nervous system and the rest of the body. Um uh the the visual systems are made up of neurons and and uh uh uh synapses, neuronal connections, neur uh neural pathways. Um the optic nerve which is cranial nerve two uh which comes right off of the retina and goes uh straight into the occipital cortex and and the other visual centers is is made up of neurons. you know uh just since I'm talking about cranial nerves with this is to contextualize why where we look affects how we feel is so important uh especially in the context of of trauma um almost everybody knows the uh uh the vagus nerve which you know which is and everybody should know the the vagus nerve uh because it's central to polyvagal theory that's the 10th cranial nerve there are 12 cranial nerves and nobody pays much attention to the other 11 cranial nerves you know unless that's your field of study and so on. Um the visual processes are directly involved in four cranial nerves you know four of the 12 it's the optic nerve which is vision and then there is the third fourth and sixth cranial nerve nerves that are involved in um uh visual orienting left right up and down and so on. uh the uh uh the fifth cranial nerve, the trigeminal nerve is related so much to social engagement and the facial muscles and so on but but looking close and looking far which is called virgin between convergence and divergence and so on um uh visually that's that is mediated by the fifth cranial nerve. So, um, uh, I'm just sort of beginning to give a a neural tapestry for why the visual processes are so important in experience and and why they're so important in terms of experiencing everything, especially trauma and also accessing and processing trauma.

[00:08:26]>> Makes a lot of sense to me. That's really important. And also, you think about the threat response, the first thing is locate, right? We're trying to locate where threats coming from. Even just that is highly dependent on vision.

[00:08:37]Sometimes auditory but >> largely vision.

[00:08:40]>> Mhm. Um and uh uh to to to make this directly accessible to everybody who's who's who's here with us today.

[00:08:52]>> Every time a person goes in for a healing session, we're here talking about psychotherapy or trauma therapy, but it really goes for every kind of healing healing session. and sits down and orients and begins to talk about whatever it is that they want to talk about. Whether it's the events of the week, whether it's uh traumas that they've been working on, whether it's, you know, a more complex developmental trauma, as soon as they start talking, their eyes will jump to a position and they'll start talking to that eye position. It's not uh always just one position. Sometimes they talk over here and then talk over here, talk over here.

[00:09:34]If you think about from a parts point of view, it's right there. You know, it's man parts are manifesting with more even with one, but with more than one uh of what we call gay spots. Um and uh I try to bring this out into the world, not to say, "Hey everybody, this is brain spotting. Look at brain spotting.

[00:09:56]Come and study brain spotting." This is information I want to be out in in in the field especially uh the the field of trauma therapy because it it's so it's so relevant. But in brains spotting we notice this all the time and we also make use of it. The way we make use of it um this is one of three ways of finding relevant eye positions is to point it out. Excuse me. Point it out to the person. Say by the way just notice what you're looking at. Keep looking over there. And then really just to observe their processing which we call in brain spotting focus mindfulness processing and off of that by observation and this goes to a paper I'm going to talk about in a few minutes uh the nature of the processing uh appears to be different and I'd say significantly different than the processing done without that that spontaneous uh gay spot. Um, and I just want everybody here to know about it that every therapist should notice this when clients come in and you have a chance if you notice it to actually make use of it. Why is it that it isn't noticed or or made use of um is not neglect. It's the fact that is so spontaneous, so intuitive, so natural that we don't really pay attention to it. No, just in normal conversation when people you know are talking about anything both parties are going to be looking in different directions as I'm talking now if you observe you know I I'll skew to the right and skew to left a little up and down and so on um because something about those eye positions is connected to what I'm talking about and helps me to get access to it you know and the access to it is is both experiential But it's also neurological, you know, uh from from an uh from a visual point of view. Uh so this is just one of the ways of beginning to understand how where you look affects how you feel, you know, which means that if you're activated about something and if you're aware of that activation, especially wherever you're holding it in your body, this is the direct sematic aspect of it. that if you look off to your left, okay, and then you look off to your right, it feels different looking left and looking right. And it feels different uh uh quantitatively, but it also feels different qualitatively.

[00:12:36]Now, the difference might may be really subtle, you know, or sometimes it can really be pronounced, you know, but what is the import of that? where you look affects how you feel. is that is that there's relevance to it and that that that there are ways of accessing the visual system and visual orienting directly into uh into all the aspects of of the nervous system that are involved with experience and that are in involved with memory and and when I say memory I'm saying you know deep sematic memory um but also involved in in experiencing trauma and then and and then still resonating with that trauma, you know, as we know, long after the traumas are are over.

[00:13:30]>> Is there a time that you'd like to work with the demon demonstrating this a little bit or is there something else you'd like to share with us before?

[00:13:36]>> Oh, oh, I'm just getting warmed up. So, >> I know you are.

[00:13:40]>> I'd like just first talk another 15 minutes and then go into a demonstration.

[00:13:44]>> Okay. Um uh I'll just people people are curious about origin stories you know and it was uh 2003 uh that was about 3 four years a after we met and so on >> and and by by the way I mean at that conference I met you I also met uh Peter Lavine and so on >> and and and it was a watershed moment for me because I'd been working to some degree with body experience but after hearing Peter speak and I went to to his uh workshop, hearing you speak at your workshop and so on. You know, for me, I was forever changed because um uh uh not just the body experience, but the body as as as a resource uh and and how to make use of it was something that I quickly became aware of.

[00:14:36]And uh 26 years later, I'm still processing and still working on it. Um, so, uh, I was working with an ice skater, uh, adolescent ice skater who was stuck on a a jump called the triple loop. We had worked for a year of 90-minute sessions. And, uh, she was a great processor, very dedicated. I was working with combinations of the core relational therapy uh, but but also making use of eye movements. Uh, it came out of EMDR, but there was none of this stuff. Okay. One of the things I did, I I made modifications to it that weren't always appreciated by higherups, but those who use it did appreciate.

[00:15:20]>> Yeah. Yeah. Very very slow eye movements. Also very fluid eye movements. So, so that it it would be um you know uh activating more of a parasympathetic response and a co cohesive response than this which is more getting the the uh the sympathetic response. But she was stuck on this jump the triple loop and she jump turn around once twice and instead of go completing the third revolution she would pop out of the jump after two revolutions. that doesn't qualify for the requirement of doing a triple loop during one of the programs that you do. So no matter how talented she was and no matter how hard she worked, she couldn't win tournaments even though she was as talented if not more than the people who were winning the tournaments. And uh again there was a lot of trauma in her history, personal family trauma, developmental trauma, but also trauma around her skating with falls and injuries and and all these things. Um, and we had cleared through most of that, you know, uh, but she was still stuck on this trip loop. And I was I had her not just imagine herself doing the, uh, the jump in slow motion, but being aware of her body, what her body felt like as she was doing it with the guidance to freeze it right to the point where she came out of the jump instead of completing it. And so we did that and I was doing very very slow eye movements, you know, and I came right over here and her eye went to this intense wobble and then a freeze. It locked.

[00:16:55]>> Okay. And when that happened, it literally felt like my hand was grabbed and held right in that in that spot, you know? It was ordained and pre-ordained and overordained and everything. And but I had never seen like a wobble like that before. Yeah.

[00:17:14]>> You know, and and we're very observant and very attuned. And she went into this deep processing for 10 minutes.

[00:17:23]And somehow traumas on the ice at home, you know, in school came up that had never come up before. And but she was she was observing them visually on my on my fingertips like it was a video screen and she was illustrating it you know and then it would process through and another one would come up another one come this went on for about five minutes which is a short period of time but it was a very extended period of time for what she was processing around that that five minute mark she start something really powerful happened is traumas that we had supposedly worked through, resurfaced, processed through to a deeper level, and then released. That got my attention even more than the than the first part because it showed me that that I had not that there were strata of experience and strata of trauma, you know, and dissociative layers that we thought were the floor, but it was it was more like the third floor than than than the ground floor, the basement. And they processed through to a deeper level.

[00:18:30]After 10 minutes, her eye eyes relaxed and I just kind of finished up and it was like, "What was that?" You know, and she called me the next morning from from the skating rink, the practice rink, and she she was really excited. She said, "David, I just did a triple loop, no problem." And to test it out, I went and I did it again and again and no problem whatsoever. And then she went on to be able to do it in practice and competitions and uh you know manifest really you know what what her capabilities and her destiny was and so on. And when I heard that I knew it was something you know I was a little afraid to say this is this is a breakthrough because I had studied so many great modalities with so many masters and so on. uh you know it's like how could I come up with something you know that people haven't noticed before and I hadn't even you know researched it to see what about this phenomenon was was being made use of um so I started to try it out with my clients starting the next day you know that that following day and the next few weeks and I I was just looking for eye anomalies you know uh eye wobbles since that's what I saw eye freezes blinks other other kind of manifestations. And as I was doing that, I started to notice reflexes in the face and even going down, you know, to to the neck and shoulders. Anytime I saw one, I stopped right there. And I just said, "Keep looking and see what happens."

[00:20:02]And to a great extent, the processing went deeper and deeper and deeper. And again, it it it just went away from conscious awareness. It went away from anything that was neoccortical just into deep sematic processing, you know, which as we know is the most effective processing, you know, doesn't have to get up to the neoortex to be worked through, you know, >> right?

[00:20:27]>> Neoortex is sitting in the back seat watching it happen, wisely appreciating miracle of of sematic healing.

[00:20:35]>> Anyhow, and a bunch of my clients were therapists doing similar kinds of work, EMDR, SE, and so on. And I tried it out with them. I didn't say what I was doing, you know, and and they were like, you know, let's say I got their attention, you know, >> and then, you know, they said, "What what is this?" And I told them about the experience with the skater. Okay? I didn't say, "Why don't you go out and try it with your clients, you know, but I knew that therapists, for all the right reasons, are experimenters. That's what we should be. were clinical scientists, you know, and they'd come back the next week and the week after and saying, "I tried it out with this one and that one. This one had breakthroughs. This one was doing well, but did even better." And and so I started to know that there was really something to this, you know, that that goes beyond um uh whatever I was able to do before. And and that was the beginning for me. And again, it's it's been an evolution all the way through.

[00:21:36]Um, now I couldn't just hold my fingers up like this. This is I'm virtual here.

[00:21:41]We're all virtual. So, you know, you can brace, you know, brace your elbow on on a the arm of a chair or something like that. But this is way precoid and everything was face to face. So, I started to use a pointer, you know, to find the eye positions. As I was looking for the reflexes in the eyes and the face with some regularity, clients started to direct me going across looking like this and I say, "Uh uh, you missed it."

[00:22:11]>> Now, at first they don't know what they were talking about. Say, "Go back. Go back. Go back. Go back." "No, you went too far that it's right there."

[00:22:18]>> I say, "How do you know it's right there?" I said, "I just know it. I feel it." You know, it was intuitive. It was sematic, you know, and And it was directed for from them from the outside instead of me observing from the outside the reflexes. So the first model I called outside window and this second way of finding relevant eye positions I called inside window. Okay. And you know um we're off to the races from there.

[00:22:46]Gay spotting that I started off with should have been the one I should have been the one I noticed first. And when I'm challenging all of you to start noticing your the natural gaze that your clients do and to see that there's relevance to it and there's access with it. I'm challenging everybody here. I didn't see it till list. Okay. I didn't see it until I was working with a client. You know, I had my pointer out and he came in and he's locked on a spot over there and he's talking to that spot and I was like, "Wow." You know, and all of a sudden it hit me. There's something over there. You know, as the old commercial used to go, I could have had a V8.

[00:23:26]>> Most of you that's of our generation, but you know, not for a lot of you watching. Anyhow, um so we had three ways of finding relevant eye positions, you know, and uh um uh but what what happened was the processing that went on and again I I had been doing processing therapy but the nature of the processing is that it went deeper and in some ways faster you know not faster you know and just like a speedboat but faster in terms of just going down the neural pathway. ways seeming to get access to the neural pathways and uh uh >> the I had always been following my clients but the nature and the power and the speed of the trajectory of their processing was such >> that I recognized all I could do was follow them and that anytime I intervened with my wisdom and my experience and my training I was actually behind them and I was pulling them back to where I was instead of following their trajectory, which we call brain spotting, getting into the tail of the comet, where the client is the head of the comet and their process, the head of the comet. And if we're smart and attuned, we'll try to get into the tail of the comet. And every time we start to fall out of it, we'll realize it and try to work our way back in. So, so, uh, that that was the nature of the evolution of following the client's processing. Um and uh uh we always check in first on body experience you know before we look for eye positions unless a person's already there we'll say you know are you activated person will say you know usually yes um how much 0 to 10 um zero is nothing 10 is the highest seven whatever it is we go straight to where do you feel that seven in your body right now okay and if a client needs needs uh extra resourcing or grounding. Instead of just going from there, we'll say where do you feel the most grounded in your body. So you can find the eye position from where do you feel the most activated in your body to where do you feel the most grounded in in your body? Uh as well um >> where you're feeling the most resourced.

[00:25:50]Yeah.

[00:25:51]>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So we we have the activation spot and also resource spot. So it's, you know, it's it's all in that same tradition.

[00:26:01]So that's the uh that's the basic origin story.

[00:26:06]>> It's so interesting to understand that the body's always broadcasting what its story is, you know, and if we can pay attention in in terms of like gaze spotting or even orienting responses, I mean, there's other things that that might show up. uh it leads us right where we need to go. And we didn't really understand that. I think back when you and I met at that conference, whatever year that was. There was still the idea that body and mind weren't connected very much. You know, that was some revolution. Now, it seems ridiculous to say that, but when I started at conferences, you were kind of a heretic for saying that body and mind were connected. We've come a long way.

[00:26:46]>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, actually, I don't think the mind actually exists. I think it's a concept >> you know I think it is the body and the nervous system is the body the brain is the body the visual systems are are the body you know >> um and the mind is a way of like looking at mental processes and I don't even know what that is anymore you know from the outside when you can only look at things from the inside and uh from the inside out and the and the bottom up.

[00:27:18]So, um, yeah, I think it was, uh, it was either 1999 or or 2000.

[00:27:24]>> Yeah, somewhere in there.

[00:27:25]>> Something like that. So, and and look at >> that was earlier, but anyway, it doesn't matter. It was a long time ago.

[00:27:30]>> Yeah. Look at look at how how we've traveled in our separate pathways and in our, you know, intersecting pathways.

[00:27:38]Uh, I I do want to mention an article.

[00:27:41]Okay. Show it to you.

[00:27:44]Um, >> effective visual circuit.

[00:27:46]>> Yeah. effective visual circuit dysfunction in trauma and stress related disorders. Okay. It's it's >> Emma's put the link up for you.

[00:27:56]>> Yeah, it's by uh Nathaniel Hornet. H A R N T. Again, effective visual circuit dysfunction in trauma and stress related disorders.

[00:28:09]I'm going to just I'm not going to read much, but I just want to read uh something I've I've bolded out in the abstract.

[00:28:17]Um the functioning of core threat neurosircuitry is partially dependent on sensorial inputs and previous research has demonstrated that dense reciprocal connections exist between threat circuits and the vententral visual stream.

[00:28:39]Furthermore, emergent E evidence suggests that trauma exposure and resultant PTSD symptoms are and just take note are associated with altered structure and function in the vententral visual stream.

[00:28:58]Okay.

[00:28:59]What that's saying is is that the eyes are not just a pathway in into the neuro neurobiological systems, you know, but that that the the visual systems are also holders of the traumatic experience, which which makes brain spotting even more compelling.

[00:29:21]>> Mhm. you know um uh because in instead of just it's sort of inadvertently hap happening the brain spotting get getting use getting getting the access to that is strategically happening.

[00:29:39]>> So using it with a great intentionality >> exactly once you understand what you're doing. Yeah.

[00:29:45]>> Yeah. It's teachable. It's quite learnable, which is very helpful for therapists to combine it with just about anything else.

[00:29:51]>> Well, well, what's interesting is that um uh the basics of it you can learn relatively quickly. Okay, the complexity of it is is yet to come. And anybody who becomes a student of brain spotting, okay, is going to be a student of it for the rest of their professional career because it is it it starts in in the basic and the and the the simple and it goes to the everinccreasing complex of course because you're getting access in into the nervous system. the nervous the the sub nervous systems. We talk about that the distribution of neuronal pathways throughout the entire body you know uh in our heart in our gut in our bones. So when our clients say I feel it in my heart my gut or my bones it it's it's not a metaphor it's it's literal experience. Uh so um uh I'm ready to do the demo. We'll do about a half an hour.

[00:31:01]>> Okay.

[00:31:01]>> Up to a half an hour. We'll see, you know. Okay.

[00:31:05]>> Sounds great. Tim, do you have our volunteer available to us?

[00:31:10]>> Yes, we have Sage. And Sage, are you able to turn your camera and mic on?

[00:31:15]>> I see. I see you're there. Welcome, Sage. Thank you for volunteering. We're looking forward to working with you tonight. David is Thank you.

[00:31:23]>> Hi, Sage.

[00:31:24]>> Hi.

[00:31:25]>> Hi. Where are you located?

[00:31:28]>> I'm in Northern California.

[00:31:30]>> Oh, okay. Well, I'm here in New York, so uh >> got the coast covered.

[00:31:36]>> Yeah, we'll do some by coastal uh brain spotting.

[00:31:39]>> Okay.

[00:31:40]>> So, uh let's kind of frame frame things out as far as what you would like to work on. Um so, you tell me and then I'll ask whatever questions are needed.

[00:31:51]Yeah, I think what I wrote about was um getting stuck with movement. Um I I've like hated PE. I would read books. I wouldn't I just wouldn't go outside. I didn't like to be hot and sweaty. Um right, and all the pushing to, you know, go do something, go play, go outside. Um was unpleasant for my system. Um, and so what that's led to is mostly a sedentary lifestyle. Um, and I I've had um a couple of times in my life where I was, you know, where I found things that I like to do. Um, but it ended and and it would, you know, end those, you know, couple of times. One was um dancing and um and I was doing resistance stretching for a while. Um, and yeah, I would get like I tried yoga and I got an injury that ended up leading to like a back surgery. Um so there's like um fear, discomfort, um lots of stuff sort of loaded up um in my experience and then there's all the intellectual um push you know since I've been alive like you know the president's fitness and you know do all the things and um and and everything in me is sort of like ick and intellectually it's like yes you know like I tell my clients like are you moving have you know, are you doing? And so it's it's fascinating to to me to watch me not go for a walk, not, you know, do the things. Um, >> yeah. And I've just been experiencing stuckness for most of my life.

[00:33:48]Do you have a sense of the origins of of this?

[00:33:56]Um, you know. Okay. So, I'm I'm just going to tell you whatever comes up. So, the first thing that comes up is my mom had had told me that I think they put like casts or braces on my legs when I was I was born no and pigeon toaded and I was I was a massive baby. Um, So, I mean, you know, I wasn't there to recall it, but that's what they told me. There was like literal impediments on my legs.

[00:34:26]>> Do you know how long they were on?

[00:34:29]>> Um, I don't I I'm guessing this happened within the first two years of my life.

[00:34:36]I'm guessing. Yeah, the first two years.

[00:34:38]>> Yes. But I mean, were they on for a week, a couple of weeks, a month, couple of months?

[00:34:43]>> I don't know. I mean, I'm asking because I've had some clients who had similar things where they were on for 6 to 12 months.

[00:34:53]You know, I saw you just had a reaction to that.

[00:34:56]>> Oh, >> you went That's a long time.

[00:35:03]>> Yeah. Yeah. And for a baby, it it's an eternity.

[00:35:14]By the time you're getting past day one, week one, whatever it is, you you start to on an existential basis believe this is the rest of my life or you don't even this is this is forever, you know. And go ahead. I'm sorry.

[00:35:31]>> Oh, something else just popped. Um, they kept telling me that I had to turn my feed out. Um, and so I like um what's coming up as a penguin like like I would hyper open my my feet like I wouldn't just you know cuz they wanted to correct for the pigeon do.

[00:35:58]So I just remember being reminded a lot to but I didn't know what that felt like or what that meant.

[00:36:08]Yeah.

[00:36:10]>> Okay. I'm going to look for the eye position where you feel the most access or connection to what's going on inside and to what you're talking about. So, do you feel it more looking to your right?

[00:36:28]Let's say more towards the middle >> or more towards your left.

[00:36:38]>> It's It's the left.

[00:36:40]>> Okay. Are you on it right now on that spot?

[00:36:43]>> Yeah.

[00:36:43]>> Okay. Just keep looking over there and notice what comes up and what comes next and what comes next. Follow your processing wherever it goes.

[00:36:52]>> Just a lot of sadness like the tears are coming and >> Good. Good.

[00:37:01]like uh there's like despair and aloneeness.

[00:37:08]>> Mhm.

[00:37:10]>> Keep going.

[00:37:13]>> Um Yeah. I'm I just I'm alone.

[00:37:27]Yeah, I can I can feel I can feel kind of some shutdown now. Like uh >> Okay, that's all shutdown is part of the process and just keep going from there.

[00:37:37]Give yourself all the time and space you need.

[00:37:40]>> Yeah, it's just it's like hard and um quiet and tight, angry. Um >> Okay.

[00:37:55]Uh detached.

[00:38:04]Yeah. Like just sort of going into the alone.

[00:38:08]>> Mhm.

[00:38:09]>> It's kind of calm. Um >> Okay.

[00:38:13]>> Yeah.

[00:38:19]Yeah. It's detached.

[00:38:22]>> Just be curious about it and keep following your processing wherever it goes. Trust it.

[00:38:33]Um so what what has come up is recently I've been I've been doing writing and um I don't do a lot of stuff alone.

[00:38:49]um that is important to me. So I I do I I write better when I have connection with somebody and then you know we can separate. Um the times that I've done something physical I was connected to somebody. Um yeah interesting.

[00:39:13]>> It sounds like there's a clear attachment component to this.

[00:39:17]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:21]Yeah. And um if I try and do something, you know, initiate on my own.

[00:39:33]Um there's no motivation, there's no juice, there's no there's nothing.

[00:39:37]>> Mhm.

[00:39:42]>> It's it's just quiet. and and it's connected to all the times in my childhood when I was reading.

[00:39:53]I would just go somewhere else.

[00:39:56]I would be up in the middle of the night laying on the bathroom floor reading.

[00:40:06]Yeah.

[00:40:11]Yeah.

[00:40:28]8th grade. Um there was a PE teacher who was not an [ __ ] which is so rare.

[00:40:36]Um, and he was so he was kind and motivating because I was like, you know, when you have to run the mile. Um, and it was awful. I hated running the mile.

[00:40:47]And he was just kind and and my time shortened. I don't know that I'd ever had like a pleasant experience running. Um yeah, as >> as you're on that right now, what are you experiencing in your body?

[00:41:19]I was holding my breath.

[00:41:25]There's a a tightness across my chest.

[00:41:32]I didn't like running cuz it felt tight in my chest.

[00:41:36]Like I didn't know how to breathe.

[00:41:42]Does that feel related in any way to the braces?

[00:41:52]>> It's you know what it's like dis it feels disconnected like no awareness of of anything below the the sharp pain in my chest >> um from having to breathe enough to keep my body running to keep myself moving. Um you know because they've got a stopwatch. Um so no my my focus is on the pain.

[00:42:24]>> Okay. Just let it let your processing come up and out of that pain and see wherever it takes you.

[00:42:40]So, I'm remembering my mother put my sister and me in dance.

[00:42:49]Um, and I liked that.

[00:42:55]But then it stopped.

[00:42:59]Um, I was in like theater. I was in a show like when I was maybe five and then that ended.

[00:43:10]Like the stuff where I was moving and I was with others and it was pleasant and it stopped.

[00:43:32]I'm feeling kind of lightheaded.

[00:43:34]>> Okay.

[00:43:43]Over overwhelmed.

[00:43:57]really just the discomfort with my body in general like disgust.

[00:44:09]>> Okay.

[00:44:31]When I was in high school, they had to do PE. There's like a mandatory thing that's, you know, a lot of stupid [ __ ] Um, but then the next year you can kind of you have to take something but you can choose and I went to the theater department and I I I joined the dance um but I was late for some reason I was late in joining the class. I don't know what that was about but um so they'd already started learning a dance and I had to catch up. Um, my back is feeling exhausted.

[00:45:13]Okay.

[00:45:16]Um, so it felt awkward and I just um kept doing it and then something clicked in my body at some point and the whole routine landed and I felt so happy um that I could move and I did theater through high school um and I was in my body and it and it felt good and then that stopped. Um, for some reason my dad is whenever we get into my dad's car, um, he's like, "Let's sit up straight." And like that's >> it's it's in your processing now. Just trust it. Follow it. See what comes up and out of it.

[00:46:09]all this stuff to try and get me to do stuff. Um, and whenever there was something that I liked, it would end.

[00:46:25]And everything else felt like manipulation, like from the braces to the let's sit up straight, like it was it was like there was there was no connection.

[00:46:42]Like no one was ever actually curious about what worked for me.

[00:46:51]And I was just alone with whatever people were trying to introduce to me or talk me into or get me to do or say was, you know, uh, mandatory.

[00:47:19]Yeah. The the times that movement has been good. I've been connected to somebody who was just kind.

[00:47:31]A few years ago, I had an injury and I had to go to physical therapy and um the physical therapist, there was one there who was really present with me and there was I got traction and I got um movement and I got healing and then he left that organization and they tried to match me with other people and they just it just And I was so sad.

[00:48:10]>> Yeah. There's something about connection and movement for me.

[00:48:14]>> Mhm.

[00:48:17]>> And likely that's right from the beginning.

[00:48:24]>> Yeah.

[00:48:27]Yeah. I I come from a family of um obese people. My mother, my mother's sister, my grandmother, and all of her siblings except for one who was bulimic. Um not a lot of role modeling.

[00:48:47]Um yeah.

[00:48:53]Yeah.

[00:49:06]Dance was I think the the most joyous thing from when I was a kid forward, but I haven't danced in a long time.

[00:49:26]Yeah.

[00:49:55]Yeah.

[00:50:00]So, I want to look other places. What's going on with that?

[00:50:04]>> Trust and follow where your eyes want to go.

[00:50:08]>> Okay. Yeah. I don't want to I don't want to keep looking left.

[00:50:13]Mhm.

[00:50:16]>> Is it just that or is it a sense that your eyes want to go some other place?

[00:50:29]>> I don't know.

[00:50:31]>> Okay.

[00:50:31]>> Like that felt like a lot.

[00:50:33]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:50:36]>> By the way, we have infinite eye positions. So, it's not like it only works if you're on that one. And sometimes you get a feeling at a certain point that you want to come off that and maybe go in another direction. So, let's let's see where your eyes are drawn to right now. In fact, before we do, I'm going to check in. What are you feeling in your body right now?

[00:51:05]A little exhausted.

[00:51:08]That's because this is deep, deep, you know, brain body processing.

[00:51:14]>> Yeah. Um, >> yeah. I feel >> the pain that was in your chest. What's going on with that?

[00:51:22]>> Um, no.

[00:51:25]And the back is not um, you know, tight.

[00:51:30]>> There was something going on with my uh, left foot. I was like, it was very stiff, but now I'm just kind of moving my feet.

[00:51:41]Um, yeah.

[00:51:57]>> Yeah. I It's interesting. I'm like, I don't know what I'm looking for.

[00:52:01]>> That's okay.

[00:52:04]Give yourself time, time and space with this. This is this is this is not a compliance exercise. This is an attunement exercise.

[00:52:15]>> Yes. Something about compliance.

[00:52:20]>> Yeah.

[00:52:23]>> Yeah. It's uh so so much of my life has been um that first place of like I have I have to know what's going on first.

[00:52:42]um the external right the training that first I don't know [ __ ] 25 years more right everything is geared towards the external right you're not supposed to look inside you're not supposed to check in with yourself and there's not too many well there's not anybody available I mean in my childhood that was actually curious and present doesn't um everybody wants to tell you what to do and you're supposed to follow instructions and you know you're supposed to be a good kid. Um and so when I'm with other people I'm like you know what am I supposed to do, right?

[00:53:26]How do I make sure I'm safe?

[00:53:35]Yeah.

[00:53:37]>> Why don't you keep looking there? Okay.

[00:53:39]with you know the safety issue.

[00:53:51]>> Yeah, my hands are fidgeting.

[00:53:54]>> Okay.

[00:53:56]Um, it's it's um it's hard not to like you're saying, you know, keep looking there and and and I I you know, I still want to um you know, check in over here like I >> which you can do anytime you want, by the way.

[00:54:19]>> Yeah.

[00:54:20]Yeah. When I'm around people, I'm like very vigilant. Like, am I am I safe with you?

[00:54:31]Am I going to be, you know, in a position where you're going to try and manipulate me? Um, are you going to withhold information from me?

[00:54:45]Um, yeah. And I feel I I can feel the frozenness in my body. Um, >> where do you feel it right now?

[00:54:58]>> AC across the shoulders and the upper back.

[00:55:02]Um, yeah, in my arms. Yeah, I'm still I can I can feel like my head's moving a little bit, but everything else really wants to hold still.

[00:55:16]like I've had a practice um since I started doing growth work um the courage to survive I think was the book and they that was the first place I read that people who were um sexually molested people who are violated tend to hold their breath. And I noticed that I held my breath a lot.

[00:55:48]And I in my 20s, I started mindfully practicing breathing.

[00:55:55]But right now, like I can feel the um wanting to hold my breath. And it was a really sharp hold until I couldn't hold my breath.

[00:56:07]And then it would be this like loud release um that kind of forced itself from me.

[00:56:27]Yeah.

[00:56:31]Yeah. Freezing has been a a big part of my life.

[00:56:40]Stay still. Be quiet.

[00:56:43]I mean, that's what they tell you in school. Stay still. Be quiet.

[00:57:17]the totality of it. Um, just I I just feel so angry.

[00:58:02]When I was a kid and I was reading, I wouldn't be in my body.

[00:58:12]Um, and sometimes my my younger sister would be screaming in my face. Um, accusing me of ignoring her.

[00:58:26]Um, but I just wasn't there. I I had left.

[00:58:35]So, it was always a shock. um to be accused of something that I wasn't doing. Um because I just I just left. I just took myself somewhere else all the time.

[00:58:50]Um and I didn't want to be in my body.

[00:59:14]Yeah.

[00:59:23]And then, you know, puberty starts and all that stuff about dressing your body up and presenting yourself um you know, for the gays. Um, so uncomfortable. Clothing was so uncomfortable.

[01:00:31]Yeah.

[01:00:54]It's um kind of bigger, overwhelming thoughts around um being in a body with a vulva and the profound level of hatred and control.

[01:01:13]And it has to look like this or you're not safe or it has to move like that or you're not safe.

[01:01:21]being in this body um surrounded by such meanness and ignorance and hatred.

[01:01:47]Yeah, I probably read because I just didn't want to be here.

[01:01:53]I couldn't I couldn't handle it. I was I didn't have the resources.

[01:02:04]So, I would escape in whatever felt good for a little bit.

[01:02:15]And most of the time being in my body did not feel good.

[01:02:25]You're talking about the the details of like the circuitry and and you know we're not taught about our bodies. We're not taught like we're just ignorant.

[01:02:53]just supposed to, you know, control it and decorate it for other people's approval.

[01:03:15]And sweating is unattractive.

[01:03:19]So when you move your body and you sweat, it's unattractive, >> which is unsafe.

[01:03:42]when I was a teenager, I guess. Um, you know, aerobics and all this, no pain, no gain.

[01:03:51]Uh, but nobody nobody specified um what was like a good soreness pain.

[01:04:00]>> Mhm. And what was alarming? Something's wrong pain.

[01:04:17]>> Even you know as an adult like in a yoga class like like I just didn't have any guidance.

[01:04:37]I saw a video recently of this Indian woman who was using fabric to um dress right with folding and and cuz I you know I wasn't raised in that culture and I was raised here and um where there are sizes Right?

[01:05:00]And you have to fit in certain sizes or you're not okay.

[01:05:11]All right? So, no one's really interested in helping you learn about the body, right? Your body, your unique body, right?

[01:05:25]So I I didn't I just didn't have any help in being curious with me.

[01:05:33]So it's it's it was just an alien thing and it was uncomfortable. It it it is uncomfortable to be in my body.

[01:05:55]At least there were times when I could just ignore it and go away.

[01:06:02]>> And now, you know, I'm a grandma, so um I I can't even do that anymore.

[01:06:19]Yeah.

[01:06:31]Yeah, >> we're we're almost finished. Um, how are you feeling especially in in your body right now?

[01:06:50]strangely relaxed. I mean, you know, stuffed up and, you know, >> tearful, but um kind of calm and relaxed.

[01:07:02]>> So, having gone through such deep processing and covering so much ground, how do you understand the fact that you could feel relaxed in your body right now?

[01:07:15]It feels like a workout, >> you know, >> like the times that I had done, you know, something physical and afterwards it was like, "Oh, I feel kind of good and relaxed."

[01:07:35]And >> well, >> you know, moving the body is not just moving the body on the outside. The body's always moving on the inside and sometimes we can even move it more on the inside. So, so I'd say you probably had a very good internal sematic workout.

[01:07:59]>> Yeah.

[01:08:00]>> This is how I want to finish.

[01:08:04]I want you to remember you talked about about the penguin the beginning.

[01:08:08]>> Yeah.

[01:08:09]>> Go back to the penguin now and see when you go back there what comes up, what you experience.

[01:08:18]>> So I like penguins. I think they're cute. Um, there is a song that I think Dave Jones sang, I Want to Be Your Personal Penguin, which was like written by S, was it Susan Boon? It's so [ __ ] cute.

[01:08:36]It's such an adorable song. Um, that's what comes up for me. Like a lot of cuteness.

[01:08:42]>> And how does that feel, especially in your body right now?

[01:08:54]There was a connection to a the a guy who was a resistance training coach in my past and I had shared this with him and so I'm seeing his face smiling and I'm feeling the the like sweetness of that connection and um yeah it's it's like bouncy and playful and >> cute.

[01:09:21]>> You just you just did some real nice move there.

[01:09:25]>> It's a cute bouncy song.

[01:09:27]>> Yeah. Yeah. But but you know how to move.

[01:09:30]>> Yeah, I I do actually. Like >> Yeah, I I've I've been a really good dancer.

[01:09:39]It's just been a long time.

[01:09:41]>> Yeah. Yeah. Still it's still there for you, you know.

[01:09:46]>> Yeah.

[01:09:47]Yeah.

[01:09:48]>> I want to ask one thing and then say one thing and then give people a chance to ask questions or debrief. Um, most of the time was on that eye position that was off to your to your left. In fact, so far that it was beyond the screen, which happens when you do virtual brain spotting. You know, not everything is in that rectangle. Was there something about that eye position that feels like it made a difference or a significant difference in your processing as opposed to if we we weren't using it at all?

[01:10:24]um when you started this whole um training session and you you had said you know turn you know look right look left and when I when I'm like oh okay I'll check that out and I I could feel emotion there like I could feel some of the tears when I looked over there and I was like oh what's that and I've so I've done a lot of sematic stuff and comey right very slow and and I thought, "Oh, that's that's there's something there."

[01:11:00]And so when we went back again, I was like, "Oh, I I I could feel some part of me was like, "Are you going to go there?" I'm like, "Oh, [ __ ] it. You already you already volunteered. Just go just go there and see what you get." Um, but I could feel it um when I went over there and I'm like, "I don't know what that means, but something was there."

[01:11:21]Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. My last thing is the the choice of what to work on today had to do with movement and difficulty for you with movement historically and so on and you know gave some compelling history and did compelling processing.

[01:11:40]But the most important thing about this session is your healing.

[01:11:46]Okay. that working in relation to movement was in the service of your healing, you know, and and as in the deepest of fashions.

[01:11:56]And no matter what happens with your movement issues, you know, obviously, you know, there's more work more work can do this, but no matter what happens with that, the important thing is the healing that you experience and carry away from this experience, your own personal healing.

[01:12:23]So, this is a piece of work that I I get to take with me.

[01:12:27]>> Absolutely. It's yours.

[01:12:33]>> Thank you.

[01:12:34]>> You're most welcome.

[01:12:39]Uh Diane, how do we go with some comments or questions from our attendees?

[01:12:46]>> Uh we're very limited on time, but we can for sure. And it was a beautiful thing to to be witnessed to with David and Sage. Thank you, Sage, so much for sharing your experience. It's really really beautiful.

[01:12:59]>> Demonstrated so much of what David was talking to. So we can take a few comments, but we need to say a little bit about um what's next also. Okay. And I have some things to say on that, too.

[01:13:09]So, we'll bring it all together.

[01:13:11]>> Okay.

[01:13:16]So, just so you have an idea what's coming up if this is something that tweaks your interest and we David will debrief a little bit about this session and again it was just so beautiful to to be able to witness uh for me personally and I'm sure for you too. And if you have Tim can open chat if you have some comments about how this affected you or what your questions or any kind of experience going through what David's talked about tonight that would be uh lovely for us to share with everyone and for you to share with each other. But if you'd like to know more uh David's really honing in on brain spotting for clinicians, how to work with trauma parts and deep processing. Uh there'll be a live brain spotting experiences all the way through the course. And he'll be doing live demonstrations, clinical debriefs, and uh teaching. Uh there'll be five 2-hour live training sessions, uh real time participant demonstrations like we just did tonight. Uh in-depth clinical debriefs and uh live Q&A. We really like to show the work in action, and you learn so much about what David's has to share with you uh from watching the work itself. And if you want um you can check out more details at traumahealingexperts.com.

[01:14:35]Uh we'll go to their next slide.

[01:14:38]Uh a lot of this we talked about. Let's see. Uh you can volunteer in the group and and get a chance possibly to work with David uh as he unpacks things moment to moment with the uh gay spotting and other things that he has to go deeper into share with you more specifics about all of this. Of course, you will have downloads of audio uh and video that you could reook at. You get lifetime access once you sign up for the course. And we like to provide transcripts because I don't know, I'm a transcript person. I like to print them out and write things and oh, this reminds me of this client. This reminds me of that client. Um I wanted to say to Sage, too. It's so interesting that you picked what you what some of what you talked about because I grew up in leg braces, too. So, I was relating very personally to what you were talking about. So, thank you for working working on something that also I was able to work along with a little bit. Um, and I'm sure whether you had that history or not, you could see the power of of working with the gay spotting. And it's just such a beautiful presence that David brings to these uh demonstrations as well. That's a big part of what is important. We'll go to the next slide.

[01:15:49]Uh, this is a little bit what's going to be happening in the different sessions.

[01:15:53]Um, and I'd like David to talk about it a little bit because he's going to have a deeper sense of what uh to share with you. It starts June 3rd, uh, coming up.

[01:16:04]Um, and David, I'll let you take a little bit of chance to describe a little bit what's happening in these five sessions. It' be great.

[01:16:11]>> And I want to reiterate that in every session there's going to be a live demonstration just like this one with Sage. So, you know, as they say, uh uh uh don't just tell me, show me, you know, right?

[01:16:23]>> And and and and we're going to show you, you know, and and what happens is you watch one demonstration, you see one thing, but you see multiple demonstrations, you start to see the commonality of the process and the individual individuality the process at the same time. the uh uh session one I talk about the neuroexperient model which is my new model and that's in great detail in my new book but I'm previewing it here and uh talking about neurobiology and the frame >> here first.

[01:16:56]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. This is a this is a a preview in many ways and and brain spotting is not protocol based.

[01:17:03]It's framebased, you know, and it's also uncertainty based uh based on the the infinite complexity of the nervous system. We say in in brain spotting in the face of uncertainty, all we have is the frame which really simplifies things down from the complexity of all the different technical things, theoretical things, the technical things that flow from it, the application and all this.

[01:17:29]This really simple simples it down and quiets it down. Uh um uh I'm going on to the additional sessions here. Um brainspotting as as taught through my institute uh brain spotting trainings has phase one and phase two which are the introductory ones uh trainings from which you learn how to do the basics and you can actually do it. I teach I don't teach phase one and phase two anymore.

[01:17:55]where I teach phase three, four and five which are advanced and a master class which is just little uh clinical um demonstrations. Uh but in in these sessions you know uh there's going to be a sampling of the things I teach in three four and five. So you're going to be getting direct you know um uh highsp specific applications of brain spotting.

[01:18:20]The session two is going to be working with parts which we call part spotting which combines parts work with positionality. So it's literally there's something about not just working with the part but where that part is in the room and looking at that part that that that gives an an added dimension to it you know. Um and the the the third one is culture comes before science which is one of the tenant another tenate of brain spotting and the neuroexperient model uh which because brainspotting aims to be a global model not not a primarily western model and it's working with you know uh collective uh uh trauma also existential trauma and there's a real technical piece to this as well which is literally where we look when we confront the exact moment when things went from okay to desperately not okay whether it's an individual tra traumatic experience or uh a collective traumatic experience. So there's with all of these there's technical application that you can learn a sample try out. The uh session four is uh pacing, dosing and and eye contact which is the most resourced way of doing brain spotting.

[01:19:41]Um uh and we have a resource model but this is beyond the resource model and again because so many of our clients have such attachment trauma and such complex developmental trauma uh that even working from a resource point of view can be overwhelming. Thi this this goes to the highest levels of t titration. And the last one is uh brains spotting for performance creativity and expansion which if you work with performers whether it's uh performing artists or athletes or people in other forms of performance. This shows the application of brain spotting to it and how brainsping is not just a trauma model uh or even a resource model but an an expansion model. And uh uh and again with that performance and creativity expansion is not just for performers, it's for everybody. So it has its a much wider application than it may just seem here.

[01:20:40]So you're going to be seeing from one to the next to the next to the next with all this information and all the demos.

[01:20:46]uh you just got a small glimpse into it today in in our master class, but the master class is going to be expanded out in all these different ways in our five sessions.

[01:20:57]>> This is like an appetizer for a big feast ready to come. And just so you know, the five sessions are two hours long because we want to make sure we have time like tonight to really thoroughly move with the demos as well as the information that David has to share, which is so valuable. And you can get eight CE credits uh are available to purchase for eligible professionals if you attend when you attend the live session. So that's also something that you might want to consider. Um and uh let's check out our next slide. Oh, by the way, just to move towards doing the course if this is something that calls to you, we'd love to have you join us.

[01:21:34]It's going to be a very rich experience.

[01:21:36]We've done a course with David before in a slightly different focus and just been absolutely wonderful. Uh you can do a one payment if you want for $2.47 or three monthly payments at $85. Um and every training, every time we get together is recorded. So you can always do a class on replay if you weren't able to attend for some reason. And our first uh training starts June 3rd. And let's go to our next slide.

[01:22:05]This is the early bird special, by the way, where you get $50 off if you join by May 25th, and you use a code EB EB50 at checkout. eB50 at checkout. And um this is uh for folks that uh can manage this with the early bird special, you do one payment of 197 and uh $67 three month patience um thing. So that's also a special for you. Okay. And the training coming up that's that's now open is called again brain spotting for clinicians how to work with trauma parts and deep processing that we talked about at the very be beginning. So, uh, if this is something calls to you, check out traumahealingexperts.com.

[01:22:52]And we have some time for David to debrief a little bit, which is so valuable and maybe take a question or two. And if don't lose your questions, if you join the course, we can continue to have time for Q&A. I did want to mention before I forget that we add 30 minute I know two hours is a chunk, but we add 30 minutes of community time at the end of that's optional. It's up to you if you want to attend that, but we love to have time for you to integrate and talk to each other. in our community uh for 30 minutes in addition to the two hours. So, that's an optional thing. We provide it. We a lot of people really find that valuable because you're not alone on these courses. You know, you're connected to people all over the world that are like-minded and and and and to connect in that way is really really possible. So, if that's possible for you, just want you to know that's part of what we're offering as well. So, again, Sage, beautiful work. Thank you for your openness, your vulnerability, your courage to jump in uh in this way and it was just so beautiful for all of us. And I'll let David say a little bit more about it and then maybe if there's time questions too.

[01:23:56]>> Uh I want to say that Diane Diane and I manifest uh cooperation and respect. We're we're we come from similar but different backgrounds. We work in similar ways but in in different ways at the same time.

[01:24:14]But the nature instead of it being who's right, who's wrong, who's better, all this is appreciation. Okay? And what's important about this is that brains spotting as I've developed it and as you'll be learning it is meant to be integrated into what you're doing already. It doesn't present you with a dilemma. Well, do I do brains spotting or do I do what I've been doing already?

[01:24:37]It provides you with with opportunity, you know, that that is meant to be integrated that is respectful and appreciative of of other healing modalities. So, so I wanted to say that and then just again, you see Diane and I manifest and exemplify that all the time. And this session with with Sage, every session to me is a miracle, >> you know, and and Sage's session was was a miracle. And I go into it in the context of uncertainty, having no idea where Sage was coming from, where she's at, or where she's going to go. And nor do I make any attempt to because I know it's it's impossible. Her nervous system is is just too complex for that. Uh but I know that given the right experience that healing is going to happen. And it's always a matter of waiting for the surprise or the surprises when they happen. And those surprises are connections. They're they're experiential connections, but they're neural connections. When all of a sudden one part of the brain that's not communicating with another part of the brain starts to communicate and it's like something happens and uh it's so dynamic and and and so honoring to experience that with people and what you >> I think it really it really proves that humans are designed to heal when they get the right >> and the right direction. Um, and but you I was actually more interventive than I usually am. And I for for many of you, I wasn't interventive at all, you know.

[01:26:07]Um, but when you're in the tail of the comic following the client wherever they go, uh, you you don't want to intervene too much or too specifically because the client is always ahead of you, you know.

[01:26:19]Um, and and when you trust that and surrender to that, it it it only supports the client's healing process.

[01:26:27]So, any comments or questions? Uh, >> and you need to post them in the Q&A the Q&A section, not the chat section if you have questions. But, let's see. Um, it it says, "Might the scandal around neural linguistic programming in the 1980s have contributed to visual orientation being overlooked?" That's interesting question.

[01:26:52]>> Yeah. One of the things about NLP is that it was more mapped out in advance that you look over here for this and over here for that and so on.

[01:27:01]>> Right. This memory that Yeah.

[01:27:02]>> Right. There is no map and each person has their own individual map. Okay. And it's always changing and part of what happens is as you process the map changes. You saw you know how Sage started on this spot and then she kind of went off and then she went back here and she went spontaneously to other spots. So, um, that's why the map is always evolving.

[01:27:28]>> Carolyn is asking, "Can I do this myself?" I know your answer for that is going to be yes.

[01:27:33]>> Yeah. Yeah. The the thing is is you can't uh uh no one else when you're holding your own frame, it's not the same as somebody else holding your frame with you. And so, >> such an advantage to have that presence.

[01:27:48]Yes.

[01:27:48]>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and again from an attachment point of view, it it just allows us to drop down and process attachment issues, but it's a technology that you can use on your own, you know.

[01:28:01]So generally if you have a lot of trauma you don't want to take your worst trauma activate yourself look at the spot where you feel it the most on your own you know uh you would probably go for areas of lesser activation but also you can use it for resource or expansion which is start by where do you feel the most grounded in your body or the most resource in your body or where do you feel the most expansive in your body and then you let your eyes sort of explore for where it just seems to be the most present or the most accessible and you let it process from there.

[01:28:36]>> Thank you, David. There we just have a couple minutes left, but Dave Haskell, I was trying to answer and I I hit the wrong button. He's asking about receiving formal training on brain spotting. This class is a really good start. And then of course, David has this institute where you can take his brain.

[01:28:53]Um >> the goal the goal of our sessions here is not so that you go and train at brain you know in brainspotting phase one you know my website is brainspotting.com any but the the goal is for you to get this information to to absorb it to begin to ponder it to to begin to apply it and then on your own to decide if you want to take it further and how you want to take it further. If you really want to take it further, then you need to go for training in phase one and phase two. But you don't have to. That's not what this is about.

[01:29:26]>> Melody's asking, are there handouts? Not tonight, but there might be. I don't know if we have any handouts.

[01:29:34]>> Generally, generally what I say is is the handout.

[01:29:38]>> Yeah.

[01:29:39]uh you know um but and and when you can come back and see it you know then it it's still there for you and in the verbal experiential form >> people there's a lot of questions here we're not going to I'm sorry we won't have enough time to get to too many of them tonight but uh someone's asking um if a client's looking down looking at their fingers curled back is that relevant what would you do next I think you showed a lot of that tonight. But >> yeah, um just notice where you're looking, notice what you're feeling as you're looking there, uh and follow your process wherever it goes. It's I if someone I mean that that there there's the there's the visual and the sematic, you know, uh at the same time and the person's going to be processing both together.

[01:30:30]>> Uh thank you Daniel. I think we're going to take one more question here. In SE, we have a person follow our finger slowly side to side and notice where the eye jumps or sometimes circular and sometimes at an X position. Uh because their brain can skip where the trauma happened based on how the eye wobbles like you talked about eye wobbles to begin with. Um how does this align with having the client move eyes move eyes and keep their eye gaze in a specific spot? Will the client avoid or miss the activation or can it be too overwhelming to focus on the activating eye position?

[01:31:04]Well, you are focusing on the activating eye position.

[01:31:06]>> By the way, the idea that at a certain point something will skip. Brain spotting is more expansive than that. We don't we don't try to understand any phenomenon. We notice it and we harness it and we follow it. to say that it's a skip. Um could be, but just as as uh likely, it's not a skip at all. It, you know, um so again, the uncertainty principle, which I didn't really talk about today, tells us that we can't know what something is when we're in the face of this complex moving neural system.

[01:31:51]So there's there is there anything else you would like to share, David? Because we're unfortunately running out of time and I I hate to I could talk to you forever and I can't keep this going forever, but I want to be respectful of our >> th this is what I want to share. This is very powerful stuff >> and that's a great thing. It's not, oh, it's dangerous. You got to be careful.

[01:32:13]nitroglycerin, you're going to drop it and it's powerful for healing. But what we experience here to today together, especially the demo, everybody who's been here is going to be processing it.

[01:32:24]You know, some of you more intensely, some of you more subtly, follow your processing wherever it goes, your post-processing just from this meeting together. And for those of you who decide to continue on, I really look forward to studying together with you.

[01:32:41]for those who do not, thank you for being here and for sharing this time and space with us.

[01:32:46]>> Yeah, it was really a beautiful evening together. Thank you um and for everyone that attended and if you have a comment that you'd like to share on how this affected you personally, professionally or anything that you'd like to share with us, please do in chat and we're looking forward to continuing in any way that that unfolds. So, um thank you David. It's always a delight to have time with you. I really enjoy it. Same same here, Diane.

[01:33:10]>> Yeah. So, blessings to all of you and thanks for everything and hopefully we'll see some many of you soon as we continue. Okay, take care for now.

[01:33:21]>> Bye >> bye.