'Heartbreak in our eyes' | Martin Daubney brought to tears as Nottingham attack families speak out

[00:00:00]Well, good mate. Now, time is 5:38 and you're with me, Martin Daubney, here on GB News.

[00:00:04]An astonishing story for you now, a first historic case of its kind because the NHS trust that discharged the Nottingham killer, Valdo Calocane, despite his history, well-documented history of violence, is being investigated for corporate manslaughter.

[00:00:20]Nottinghamshire Healthcare NHS Foundation Trust sends Valdo Calocane, of course, a paranoid schizophrenic psychopathic killer back into the community before we stabbed three beautiful people to death in June 2023.

[00:00:35]The central character there on the left of your screen, Grace O'Malley-Kumar, and joined there by her father, and that is Dr. Sanjoy Kumar, who's become a great close friend of mine. Don't Sanj, it's always a pleasure to have your company.

[00:00:48]>> Thank you for having me.

[00:00:49]>> Sincerely yours, it's an astonishing case.

[00:00:52]Corporate manslaughter against the foundation trust. How did this idea come forth?

[00:00:58]>> Martin, it was as basic as me looking up the definition of corporate manslaughter.

[00:01:04]If you look at the legal definition of it, there are standards. There are four main standards. And as far as I'm concerned, and I really hope the Prime Minister is watching because he's only 70 miles away, his place of origin from Nottingham when all of this happened, and I'm sure he's kept a very close eye on it. We are hoping to see him very soon, and I hope he sees all of the families very soon because we have new and fresh things to tell him.

[00:01:27]But essentially, I made an appointment with the police.

[00:01:31]I presented them with the evidence in terms of all of the printouts that I'd brought to your studio before. I gave them previous CQC reports. I gave them previous NHS England job descriptions for the regional mental health director and the national mental health director.

[00:01:49]I gave them job descriptions for the board of Nottingham Trust, and I gave them all of the previous crimes that were related mental health that happened in nothing that you know very well about.

[00:02:01]It's your city.

[00:02:03]I put this in front of the police and I said there isn't, you know, in my humble opinion, I'm not I'm a doctor, I'm not a legal expert, but in my humble opinion, I think all of the standards of corporate manslaughter have been met here.

[00:02:17]They looked at the information.

[00:02:20]They said they were going to take it away.

[00:02:22]They reviewed kindly reviewed the information with the CPS.

[00:02:26]And they came back to us last week and they said, "Guess what, guys? I think you're right and the evidence that we have seen in the inquiry, which I think her honor Deborah Taylor is going to be very critical about, I think they then said, they turned around and they said that you have met all the thresholds and here we are, we are going to pursue this trust for corporate manslaughter."

[00:02:51]>> Dr. Sanje, I've often said this I I'm in awe of how you of how the other families have turned such terrible terrible tragedy into such a a foundation for for doggedly never letting go. Forensically, meticulously, you listen to painful agonizing testimonies, dehumanizing evidence, but you've compiled it, you've dossiered it, you've presented it, and it's all go.

[00:03:21]You got the first case of its kind on the way. What does victory look like for you?

[00:03:27]>> Martin, there is no victory for me.

[00:03:29]Uh I've lost the love of my life, who was my daughter.

[00:03:32]Um I was totally in love with my daughter. She was the apple of my eye.

[00:03:37]This is all I can do for her.

[00:03:40]And this is something you have seen the heartbreak in our eyes when we lay a rose every year in Nottingham.

[00:03:47]You have seen me cry at almost every interview that I do.

[00:03:51]This is something that no other family in our country should go through.

[00:03:56]We have the ability in this country to bring mental health related homicide to zero if it was the will of the people in psychiatry.

[00:04:05]When you have a president of the Royal College of Psychiatrists sending out memos to all of their staff saying "Don't worry about your concerns about some doctor here and there holding you accountable." That worries me for all families in our country. We cannot carry on all of the recent crime you've seen recently, Martin, has had an edge of mental health about it. I won't be surprised if all of the recent high-profile things that you've seen in the news recently all have failed mental health behind it. I'm not going to accept that as a cause of a tragedy for a family and I will keep fighting till my last breath in the name in my daughter's name because that's what she would have done for me and as a dad that's what you need to do for your daughter.

[00:04:48]>> You know, the Labour Party watch the show because when we get things wrong they tell us off and they're watching, I'm sure, now.

[00:04:55]You met [snorts] with Wes Streeting before. You had a great You had a great relation with Wes. Wes has now moved on to fresh pastures in defense. There's a new health secretary.

[00:05:05]There's a new prime minister.

[00:05:07]You've sent out a plea there to meet to listen to them.

[00:05:11]They surely should listen to you because people are on your side. Justice was not served to you. You feel that Kally should have been tried for murder. You feel it was soft justice and what you're pursuing now is your way of trying to find some kind of resolution in some small way.

[00:05:26]>> And you're absolutely right and and and Martin, there are quick wins to be had in our country. Quick wins that can make a huge difference to people at the grassroots.

[00:05:35]I can't understand, you know, we've had Pat McFadden who listened to us and our plea to stop benefits for criminals, serious criminals.

[00:05:44]>> worked.

[00:05:45]>> Quick win.

[00:05:46]>> It worked.

[00:05:46]>> We spoke to Wes about saying that no patient should be discharged because of in attendance. It worked and already the rates of mental health related homicide went down.

[00:05:56]All these quick wins can happen without laborious changes of any kind of legislation. They just need codes of practice. We need the Prime Minister to say Sanjay, this sounds sensible. I'm going to get this done. And I'm going to get it done today because I'll tell you what, it doesn't cost any money. It doesn't cost the country a single penny.

[00:06:17]And I'll tell you what, this is good practice. That's all we've ever asked for is good practice and people doing their jobs and being accountable. Let's rewind to the days when we were accountable for our jobs that we were just paid to do. We've never asked for anything more. Just do the job that you're paid to do. That's all I've ever asked for.

[00:06:34]>> Sanjay, this has never been about retribution.

[00:06:37]It's about some form of justice.

[00:06:41]For you. For Grace.

[00:06:43]>> What will retribution ever bring me?

[00:06:45]I'll tell you, for me, honestly, Martin, you cannot be a father who sees his wife brokenhearted every day, who misses her best friend. You cannot have a son like mine, James, who's a lovely lad, who misses his sister and her advice every day. You cannot have anyone go through this complete heartbreak.

[00:07:06]I will not have it in her name.

[00:07:10]>> Okay, Dr. Sanjoy Kumar. As ever, you get me every time, mate. Thank you very [snorts] much for joining us. I love Just have a drink afterwards, shall we?

[00:07:17]>> Absolutely.

[00:07:18]Thank you.

[00:07:19]>> A spokesman for Northumbria Police has told GB News this, "We are in contact with the victims' families and survivors and are committed to supporting them throughout this process. It would not be appropriate for us to comment any further." And a spokesman for Nottinghamshire Healthcare NHS Foundation Trust said this, "We will, of course, be cooperating fully with Northumbria Police as we have with the statutory inquiry into these matters, which is being chaired by her honor Deborah Taylor and which will hear final submissions from all the parties involved later this year. Once again, thank you to you my friend Dr. Sandeep Kumar, it's an absolute pleasure to have your company and to know you. Let's now speak with Emma Webster, Barnaby's mother. Emma, it's always a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you very much indeed for your time, especially as I know you're on holiday today. You know, this case is inspiring cuz every time something happens, you guys never stop. You push on. This is the first case of its kind in history. Tell us all about it.

[00:08:14]>> Yeah, hi. It's nice to see you again and yeah, sorry if I'm a bit disheveled today, but it's inspiring, I think, is is a superlative.

[00:08:24]I certainly wouldn't wouldn't use for for Well, certainly not for myself, but I think it's a seismic moment, Martin. I think it's You know, we've we've said all along, haven't we? We need accountability. We need on an individual as well as an organizational level and I I think this is I've called it today on my on on my post I put out this morning on X. I hope it's the beginning of the reckoning because it's not just the NHS trusts that that have so much to answer, but but this is significant. And yeah, we were told it was highly unlikely the bar the threshold is so so high.

[00:09:00]Uh but that was it was met.

[00:09:02]Um the criminal investigation is is now taking place and of course we will do anything and everything we can to support them. Let's just hope that uh the trust and their leaders and practitioners do the same and act with transparency and candor.

[00:09:18]>> Because Emma, the litany of failures is so large, we could be here until the end of the year talking about it, but individuals >> Yeah.

[00:09:25]>> seemingly vanish. People were paid off, people were pensioned off. No one was ever held accountable. And entire institutions put out reports and say, "Well, we'll learn. We'll light a candle and move on." You never accepted that.

[00:09:37]And this is a truly significant moment because it is the first case of its kind where an entire institution is literally on trial.

[00:09:46]>> Yeah, and and and it's so tragic, isn't it? To to that it's that it's my beautiful child that's one of the three sacrifices made for this to happen, but it it it is really really important. And even if it doesn't get to them being prosecuted, I still maintain that by the very process this is going to go through, it will force change that has to happen. Um it's not victimizing at all. Um this this is holding people to account and when we knew about this since December when Northants police at the time were um seeing if it did reach the threshold and this high bar that I've mentioned.

[00:10:29]And we found out about 3 weeks ago that it did, that it's going to be dealt with by Northumbria police, so it's a totally separate um force. And I asked them a question when they came to that conclusion about it about it reaching that high bar, did the inquiry help? And what they actually said was no, the inquiry evidence, they didn't need that because they had enough already. And you know, Martin, just how much has come out during the inquiry. And thank God for the inquiry because we've had disclosure of so many documents and so much evidence. Um and and and here we are here I am again on an afternoon show with you, you know, talking about about Bonnie 3 years 3 years on. And you know, 4 years ago to this very week we were actually here in Mallorca with him and his brother um on our last ever family holiday and it's maybe it's apt, maybe it's karma that it that it broke this week, I don't know.

[00:11:23]>> Well, [snorts] I think it probably it must be.

[00:11:26]Must be a sign.

[00:11:29]>> Yeah, I I hope so. I hope so because um this isn't this isn't unique. This isn't a one-off. This isn't one rogue trust.

[00:11:36]This isn't one rogue, uh, murderer. This this this is, uh, this is across all of our trusts. This is across our public sectors. And I and I think I know I think I read that it's 11,000 members of staff plus that will be uh, will have been woken up today, uh, with the news that their trust is being investigated. I bet it's not a massive surprise to an awful lot of them. But, what I do think is the vast vast majority do work really hard. They do do their jobs properly. But, here, from the top down, over sustained period of years, they didn't. And, um, the way they behaved and performed at the inquiry shows the type of the type of people that that had they done their jobs properly, would have made the difference. And I genuinely believe Barney would still be here.

[00:12:23]>> And, Mo, thank you for joining us today.

[00:12:26]Appreciate your time, as ever.