Rick Blackshaw - Co-Founder and CEO - STOKE Shoes

Added: 2026-05-20

[00:00:00]Guys, today Rick Blackshaw, who goes by Rick Shaw, is a powerhouse footwear industry veteran and entrepreneur who's overseen the sale of more than a half billion pairs of shoes throughout his career. He is the co-founder and CEO of Stoke Shoes, a performance lifestyle footwear brand launched to serve the 65 million American men who have wide feet and are constantly overlooked by the mainstream athletic giants. Before disrupting the wide width footwear market with Stoke, Rick built an incredibly diverse leadership resume. He served as global CEO of CCM hockey and president of Sperry Topsider, president of KS, VPGM at Chuck Taylor at Converse.

[00:00:41]Known for his no BS approach to consumer products, Rich specializes in revital heritage brands, identifying massive underaddressed gaps in the global marketplace. Rick, thanks for coming on, man. appreciate you spending some time with us and talking us through this monster of a shoe you've built.

[00:00:58]>> You bet, Dylan. My pleasure. It's great.

[00:01:00]Great to be uh on the show.

[00:01:03]>> Yeah. So, uh I know I gave a little bit of your background there, but um why don't you tell me a little bit about, you know, where did you study? Where'd you grow up? And uh what got you into the uh the footwear business?

[00:01:15]>> Sure. Um, so I I would call myself an ineterate [ __ ] which uh if you spent if you spent more than two decades in Massachusetts, you uh you earned that title. Um I grew up outside of uh Boston. Um I actually went to school at Babson College uh which is also outside Babs out of Boston and it's really known for their entrepreneurial studies program. And that's what what they've really made uh you know their um their hill to to win on. And you know I got that degree about 40 years ago and lo and behold you know decades later I'm actually using that entrepreneurial studies uh degree. Um, and I think the interesting thing about New England, and I think it's probably skill set and and geography and a lot of things, but most of the footwater companies in America are actually in New England. And people have invariably described it as um you know it was the streams and access to uh hydro power. It was the skill set of hand seers that were coming down from Acadia into Maine and New Hampshire. Um and at the end of the day I would bet that probably twothirds of the jobs in footwear are actually in New England, right? because you've got Converse, you've got Timberland, you've got New Balance, you've got Crocs, you've got Hey Dude, you've got Puma. Um, and I'm sure I'm forgetting about five other brands. Um, but for some reason, it's just it's been a hot bed. Um, and it's been a hot bed going back to like the birth of athletic footwear. Um, which kind of all goes back to Chuck Taylor in 1908 and and the Converse Company. So, um, really it was, uh, uh, always kind of around and and I think footwware was definitely of interest to me. Um, and I started back in 1993 actually with Timberland. So, I've kind of I kind of made the, uh, made the rounds of the various footwear companies in New England, which has been fantastic.

[00:03:37]>> I love it. So, uh, obviously you have an amazing resume of leading all of these amazing footwear brands, but what was keeping you up at night. What was the, you know, you talked about, we talked about in your resume, you've been kind of an expert in helping brands, uh, find those unadressed gaps in the global marketplace. Obviously, you've identified a new one with the 65 million American men who have wide feet. Uh, can you tell us a little bit about the insight? where did you come up with this product insight and what got you, you know, so bent out of shape about this problem that you wanted to take a stab at, you know, addressing it as an entrepreneur?

[00:04:14]>> Yeah, absolutely. So, I I think it's a it wasn't like one moment the light bulb went off. Um, but a confluence of factors. Um, one thing that I always recognized selling shoes that had sort of a a core model, whenever you did a model that was a wide version of it, it always seemed to be the highest velocity shoe, >> right? And um if you also factor in that every athletic footwear company, Big Sneakers we like to call them, is focused on 13 to 24 year olds because they think that that's what drives footwear culture. And you know, I think that's actually true. But at the end of the day, it it ignores the fact that, like you said, there's 65 million guys over the age of 25 that have wide feet and are not wearing wide shoes. And and I'd always thought about like that that sort of mismatch of who everybody's focused on um and the fact that there's so many guys out there, you know, threequarters of the guys have wide feet and nobody's really selling to them. Um, and so, you know, I've been thinking about this for seven, eight years. Um, and finally I said, "Okay, well, let's let's give this a bid." And and sure glad that I did.

[00:05:38]>> I bet. All right. Well, you guys were nice enough to let me to pick one out of the product catalog. So, uh, I've been saving it for this interview. I've taken a peek at them, but I haven't put them on yet. So, should we go and give the audience a little bit of peak?

[00:05:52]>> Let's do I'll get the drum roll.

[00:05:55]>> Let's go. And then uh I'd love to, you know, have you walk us through some of the innovation and uh I'll ask you a few questions on that side. So, you know, I figured if I was going to get, you know, a sample from you guys, I had to go kind of on the the wild side. So, I went with these bad boys right here. What do you think of that?

[00:06:16]>> I I love those bad boys. We can't keep that. So that's the FOMO um which stands for not fear missing out but forward motion >> and we cannot keep that >> in stock in the camo like camo for our guys definitely catnip >> and so certainly as you as you kind of >> uh feel that shoe right first off you're like wow it's it's it's a pretty big unit but it's super lightweight um and so We use this injection molded um EVA which is you know kind of old school.

[00:06:55]It's super lightweight. We call that uh midsole outsole unit are power stack.

[00:07:03]And the basic idea behind it is it's low durometer. It's high energy return and it's the the thing that delivers uh what we call the Can I say [ __ ] >> Yeah. Let's go. This is not a familyfriendly podcast. We call it we call it holy [ __ ] comfort because that literally is the expression that's been used the most when people put the shoes on. They're like holy [ __ ] these are comfortable. Right.

[00:07:32]>> Well, well, I can't wait to put them on because I've been keeping them in the box for this interview, but I'm going to I'm going to put them on and wear them for the rest of the day after uh after we get off.

[00:07:41]>> Yeah. So, so you'll notice that. You'll also notice super wide platform, uh, what we call the the manspl midsole. And the idea behind that is basically the average guy's foot from when he wakes up in the morning to when he gets home at night grows half a size and half a width just because of all the pressure. Right.

[00:08:04]And that's why when Dylan, when you take your shoes off at the end of the day, you're like, "Oh my god, I'm I'm so glad to be out of them."

[00:08:11]Um, and what this man's blade midsole allows for is there's no cup in the forefoot. Right? Most athletic footwear is cupped the the whole way around. Um, there's no cup in the forefoot of that shoe, which means the foot can actually expand beyond the upper because the midsole is so wide. Um, and so that's super important. Uh the other thing you'll notice when you put it on is it's got big ball girth, which is, you know, a technical term. Um and it's basically uh the circumference of the from the ball of your foot to your fifth metatarsal, right? And there's a lot of shoes that that might be wide um at the net, right? At at the midsole, but they don't feel wide because they don't have that toe box volume.

[00:09:01]>> Yeah. They cram they cram in at the end.

[00:09:04]>> Yeah. And and so we were really focused on, you know, this guy who again, you know, nobody likes to to tie their shoes. So we've got the slip-on stoke out technology. Um and be but you know th those four aspects of the shoe are what really delivers comfort for this average guy that's 5'9, he weighs 200 lb. You know, he's got a powerful build.

[00:09:28]He's got wide feet. And that's literally all that we thought about as we were constructing this shoe. Um, and that's why it's really hit a nerve. Um, you know, we've got unbelievable 4.8 out of five uh stars for for reviews.

[00:09:47]>> Um, and people are just freaking out about how comfortable and how convenient uh these shoes are. So, um I think those will be some of the things that you'll you'll say like I might not remember any of those technologies, but when you put them on, you'll be literally like, "Holy [ __ ] these are comfortable."

[00:10:05]>> Yeah, I see all that in the kind of the product features on the box here. The other one obviously is the the no sweat, you know, being able to create a material that is truly ble breathable.

[00:10:18]Uh do you want to talk at all about that component? I mean, it definitely looks kind of like that, you know, that more mesh material that you're used to with kind of newer sneakers that just breathe real easy and have for that uh you know, for the um that component of it to be make it breathable.

[00:10:36]>> Yeah. So, it's it's breathable. It's also a dynamic four-way stretch.

[00:10:43]>> And so, again, that that allows it to to expand as as your foot expands throughout the day. So yeah, I mean we were we were really really thoughtful about how we designed these shoes and and who we designed them for. That was kind of, you know, the um the the core point of difference that we have against any other uh shoes that big sneakers, you know, dishing out.

[00:11:07]I love it. All right, so let's talk let's get into the insight now. Um, so you know, if there was an avatar, if there was a, you know, a guy out there, um, who kind of represents the brand, is there somebody that comes to mind, someone that people would be aware of from like a like like kind of a an avatar, if you would, so to speak, like this, if I if I'm like this guy personality, the things that I'm into, the build, what I look for in a shoe, who who who would you say is kind of an avatar who represents the Yeah. Who did you have in mind?

[00:11:42]>> I I don't I don't know that we necessarily had a a direct avatar that that we kind of pinned on a wall and said it was for this guy. Again, it was just, you know, the average guy in America, 5'9, 200 lb, wide feet. He probably has a job that sees himself on his feet all day long, right? Um that this guy is not about, you know, running marathons. He's he's about running his life, right? He's, you know, going to his kids soccer practice. He's, you know, running to the store. He's, you know, doing doing his yard work on the weekends. Um, he's probably also, uh, a great contributor to his community. Um, and and you just realize what this guy needs is not some high techch $165 shoe.

[00:12:36]He just needs something that's going to allow him to run life that is reasonably priced and is going to be unbelievably comfortable all day long, right? That's that's who we built it for and and it's it's unique in the sense that athletic footwear has just simply forgotten this guy.

[00:12:54]>> That's cool. So, uh talk about the marketing. You know, what did you guys uh set out to do? Did you want to go direct consumer first? Did you want to, you know, get plugged into some of the, you know, retail media networks like the Amazons of the world or the other places that are known for footwear or shoe discovery or shoe trial? Um, tell us a little bit about the go to market. So go to market. Um we definitely find uh this guy typically shops in sporting goods, family footwear, independence, and then if he's in a a rural town, uh this farm and fleet channel, which is super interesting. Um small town America has got, you know, a Walmart every 10 miles.

[00:13:46]Um, and then they got these farm and fleet guys like Murdoch or North 40 or Runnings that sell everything from Baby Chicks to, you know, feed for your animals to Carheart to Stokes, right?

[00:14:03]Um, and it's a a great place to shop.

[00:14:05]They've got incredible folks on the floor. They know everybody that that comes in and they they compete really successfully. Um, and so that's where this guy likes to shop. And between that and then our own stokes.com, um, you know, we we're we're hitting the guy if he likes to go out and try the shoes on or if he's like, "Hey, I saw your I saw your marketing. Um, it's got some some cheekiness to it. I'll try these shoes." And and frequently in in our reviews, we say like there's guys that say like, you know, I generally don't trust things that I see in social media, but I looked at the price point.

[00:14:50]I thought it was an interesting proposition. I liked what the shoe looked like. Um and then lo and behold, you know, a couple weeks later, I bought three of these. Um and so it's just sheer testimonial one after another. Um, and so we're definitely, you know, hitting our target where where he likes to shop. Um, be it online or or in store.

[00:15:13]>> I love that. And then are you creating kind of a a feedback loop there with your uh with your marketing? You mentioned kind of a cheeky approach. Uh, you know, a lot of times with, you know, footwear, you could go into the performance elements or the lifestyle elements. And then humor is, you know, maybe like Sketchers does that a little bit, but be curious. And then obviously like Crocs, hey dude, which I know you had some experience with. So do you want to talk a little bit about, you know, the tone of your marketing, the tone of the brand voice and kind of why you guys decided to go down that particular road?

[00:15:48]>> Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, if you think about Big Sneaker, they're they're pedalling this notion of elite performance, right? buy these shoes, you're going to run your 10K 4% faster.

[00:16:03]Or uh it's about being cool, you know, buy these shoes and you can be like Harry the hipster from Brooklyn, you know, the pickle maker, right? And we know for for our guy that's in the middle of the country, um and and like 80% of consumers that buy athletic sneakers, they never use them for an athletic purpose, right? That's kind of like the the big lie of big sneaker, right? You're just wearing them to to hang out. And so we really wanted to juxtapose Stoke um from Big Sneaker and and the seriousness and and you know, like you're you're going to win a gold medal if you wear these shoes. You know, Nike has this this ad like my dream is to end yours. Like stuff like that.

[00:16:54]that's absolutely hyperbolic to 80% of the people that that wear sneakers. Um, and we wanted to come at it from a very different angle, acknowledging how people actually use their sneakers, we wanted because we're we're super focused on the guys to be, you know, male ccentric and and have a male ccentric sense of humor. That's why you, you know, see things like, um, you know, I hate running unless it's running to get beer. Um, and, you know, we're really, we're having >> or or if an or if an animal's chasing me.

[00:17:31]>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And And you know that you don't have to be faster than that bear, just faster than the slowest person around you, right?

[00:17:39]And and so, um, we really wanted to to stand out. Um, and we did a lot of brand concept research before we started. We did, you know, a really long-term fit and wear test. Um, we found out that that these guys, uh, for the most part, you know, threequarters of the guys loved these shoes. There was about 15% that that did not like them, thought aesthetically they looked ugly. Um, but at the end of the, you know, 14 weeks, these guys were like, I wouldn't buy these shoes, but they're the most comfortable shoes I've ever worn. Right?

[00:18:15]But luckily, we had five times as many guys saying, I love these shoes. Um, and then when it came time to the for the brand concept test, um, you know, we had 88% resonance. We had a third of the guys say, "This is my brand. I love this brand." after a five minute online um you know with with social media assets. Um, and so that study convinced us that absolutely um, we were we were headed in the right direction because I've I've worked for some great brands, but never after five minutes would people be saying like with some brand they've never heard of, I love this brand. This is my brand.

[00:18:54]Right? And so we know we also just did a um study for the couple thousand people that we have on our mailing list. Um, they scored us, I think it was a 4.6 out of five for our content. We have a net promoter score of 79, which you know, the the average footwear brands in kind of that 30 to 40 range. Um, and up in that rarified air of almost 80 is brands like Costco or Apple. So, we know that we've really hit a sweet spot >> and we've got 84% of these guys have actually recommended to other people, their friends and family, how great Stokes are. So, we know sort of conceptually as we were going into it, they were open to the brand ID um and that they they were, you know, a proponent of the guys, loved the shoes.

[00:19:54]Um, and now we're seeing it, you know, in real life. Um, unbelievable repeat purchases. About a third of our pairs after 12 weeks have been from repeat purchasers. And the average guy has bought 3.2 pairs when when they're repeating, which is crazy because that's not typically the way guys act, right?

[00:20:14]They buy a pair of shoes, they they wear them, and then six months later when they wear out, they buy another pair.

[00:20:20]And so we've we've found that we've really solved problems for this guy and he he keeps coming back. We've got two guys. One guy's bought 14 pair, one guy's bought 12 pair. So it's literally like one pair per week. So uh we we know we're we're hitting it um this guy and in you know sort of his his heart and his his mind. Definitely.

[00:20:43]>> I love it. So, um, talk a little bit about, uh, the, you know, the anti- elite component because I think that's important. You know, it's like, well, there's also this idea that like people just want to be comfortable. I think COVID gave us the permission to be comfortable. Um, you know, I used to go to bit go to business meetings and conferences with, you know, a jacket, a button-up, you know, some kind of designer jeans, laced up tight with a belt, and then, you know, for a long time I wore dress shoes, slip-ons, usually loafers. And then now I'm to the point where I wear like the uh I wear, you know, button-up, but something kind of cool and more casual, more like surf, skate. Um, I'll wear uh kind of the, you know, the the the the Lululemon that looks like a real pant, but it's still basically like a jogger.

[00:21:40]You want to kind of be like comfortable and not have to wear a belt and be kind of cinched into your clothes all day.

[00:21:47]And then yeah, like I actually generally go for Vans with no uh socks as kind of my dress shoe, but you know, I think it's totally acceptable for people to wear sneakers as their kind of their business shoe now, especially if they look cool and if they aren't all scuffed up and messed up. So, what do you think is kind of that wider philosophy that, you know, the casualization of like business culture or just style in general where people feel more comfortable prioritizing comfort? Yeah, I mean 100% it was you spent 12 or 18 months in your basement in a pair of slippers and sweatpants, right? And >> and then you're like, why why would I give up that comfort if I don't have to?

[00:22:34]And you saw postco the rise of, you know, Uggs was killing it, Crocs was killing it, Hey Dude was killing it. Um, I think running sneakers became uh, you know, the the thing because they they drove that comfort point of view and people realize like I don't have to give that up. Um, and you know, not everybody's going to a investment banking meeting in a pair of monkstrap, you know, unbelievably uncomfortable shoes and a suit and a tie, right? like that's just not the way uh that that business is conducted these days unless you're in, you know, LA or or you're in Manhattan, right? And so I think we kind of got permission. Um and it's all been about like comfort because you don't necessarily have to to sacrifice that, right? Um and and you know, we we love it because that that is our stock and trade, right? We make the most unbelievably comfortable shoes.

[00:23:38]You know, you mentioned this idea of uh you know, the percentage I forget what percentage you mentioned, but the percentage of consumers that buy a particular sports shoe with the idea that someday I'll go run that, you know, that Iron Man or I'm going to do XYZ, but then it just becomes kind of their everyday sneaker and it and they don't actually do any of those elite sports or those elite things. Um, but is there still an aspirational lifestyle uh component that you guys are trying to lean into? Um, you know, that's outside of this like core sports thing. Is it like the aspiration of being a dad, you know, because you mentioned coaching the kids or the aspiration of being a hard worker and be able to show up to work and get, you know, stand on your feet for 12 days. Are there other elements of um affinity that you guys are trying to tap into? Yeah, I mean I I think it's it's definitely bucking the trend of big sneaker and elite performance and and you know the status 80% of people that buy sneakers do not do athletic pursuits in them, right? They just simply wear them because they're they're comfortable, right? And so we're we're supporting this guy that we think of as the the engine room of America. Um, and again, he's, you know, he's just trying to run life, right? He's just trying to be a good husband, a good parent, a good community member, and work hard at his job. You know, I've probably done 35 focus groups with these guys, and they they're just trying to be standup guys.

[00:25:22]They're they they know they're not running uh, you know, a 4440, right? Like, that's just not what they're about. They're just simply trying to run life and and be a good contributor to society. And, you know, we just think they simply deserve a a comfortable pair of uh sneakers and and you know, from a a brand perspective, a laugh, you know, that's kind of that's kind of what we're about and what what we're delivering here at Stoke Shoes.

[00:25:54]>> I love it. Uh your co-founder's name sounds familiar to me. Was Ian Stewart the CMO of like a wet suit company?

[00:26:02]>> Yes, he was.

[00:26:04]>> Yeah, Ian's been Ian's been on the show before. So, I'm excited to hear that that that you know, we were So, we were talking about Santa Barbara and those beautiful houses on the cliffs. I think Ian lives in one of those beautiful houses on the cliffs.

[00:26:16]>> Yes. So, he's um he's our he's our west coast elite guy. uh and he um is just an incredible marketer. Um you know, really smart, really quantitative, but also super intuitive. And for a a wiry Aussie, um he really gets this guy that's in the middle of the country. Um and you know, interesting enough, he was the VP of marketing at Converse when I was running the Chuck Taylor.

[00:26:51]>> Okay. That's where that's where you guys met.

[00:26:52]>> Yeah. He and I go back, you know, over a decade. Um, and, you know, he's one of those guys that, uh, we're, you know, we're we're having super passionate, you know, conversations about like what's the best way to frame this or, you know, talking about the the sort of uh, technologies that we got. and then the next minute we're like in tears laughing because he's got the most >> insane sense of humor. Um and so yeah, he's u he's been really a great partner.

[00:27:26]Um we got another guy, Billy Gorleski, who is with me from um Hey Dude, as well as with Sperry. Uh Pat Cho is a developer. He's also from Hey Dude and Sperry. And then Dip Tybakta is our CFO.

[00:27:43]Um, and she came with me from from Hey Dude. So, it's a a team that's been around for, you know, five to to 20 years, literally. Um, and it's just been a lot of fun doing it with people that you like that have great, you know, great work ethics and great work styles and everything's kind of shorthand. At the end of the day, we're, you know, having a lot of fun doing this, but, uh, we're we're doing some great stuff.

[00:28:10]>> Yeah, it's amazing. I literally I just saw his name as I was reading through my notes here and I was like, "Oh man, I think I know Ian." But yeah, he's a great marketer. Um, you know, it seems like you guys really have uh a lot of opportunity. You know, you mentioned, I think in an interview before that, you know, people should laugh out loud when they see some of these uh you call them big sneaker ads, you know, because they're so detached from reality. Um it seems like that le gives you a lot of uh brevity to kind of latch on to and make fun of that kind of space almost almost feels like you guys have an opportunity opportunity to be the liquid death of sneakers. Um I'd be curious, you know, how how how hard are you going to lean into uh that kind of uh you know, pushing back against that, you know, performance mindset or that elite mindset in your marketing? Yeah, I I think we're gonna push real hard, right?

[00:29:07]Like Liquid Liquid Death um they are definitely our our heroes and and you know when you you think about all that they've done because you know the world doesn't need another water. The world doesn't need another sneaker. Um and so we've been super focused on just creating great product for our guy. And then, you know, it's it's like if you think about it, um, if if a minivan company was having Formula One drivers in their ads, right? It's it's literally that same usage pattern that our our guy has. And it's it's just it's ridiculous when you when you think about it, right?

[00:29:51]It's all theater. Um, it's it's all, you know, artifice. and and so we we acknowledge how these guys actually use these shoes. Um and and we want to have fun doing it and and you know it's it's important to draw a distinction against the leaders, right? like that. That's the way I think that um we're going to make our uh you know the the greatest uh claim on these 65 million guys by pointing out the sort of the assertity of how they're being marketed to from other big sneaker companies.

[00:30:27]>> Yeah. To some degree it's almost uh an insult, right, to you know push this performance mindset down on your customers. If you know 80% of them aren't doing that stuff, then you know, like I get the idea of like focus on the core and everybody else is going to kind of come around it because they're all aspirational. But to some degree, it's like it's the reason that these challenger brands came in and stole market share from Victoria Secret because not every not every woman looks like that when she puts that underwear on, nor does she have any illusions that she will or does, you know. Um, and then brands that started, you know, talking to real people through advertising, creating marketing that looked and felt like the consumer versus some unattainable, you know, vision of what they thought that their product avatar should be like.

[00:31:18]>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. You know, like I there's obviously a a world in which aspirational marketing is is awesome. I mean, that's that's been the archetype that Big Sneakers been built on. But I think it leaves because there's such a disconnect between how people actually use and experience the product and how they're being marketed to, it just leaves a great opportunity for us.

[00:31:43]>> Yep. And then I think the other thing too is uh how do you how do you market performance and market to this uh particular consumer but also keeping keeping the cool factor in mind, right?

[00:31:55]Like I think there's probably a period of time where New Balance was looked at as a dad shoe, you know, uh or something that kids would never wear and that you know the the culture kind of came around and then it became trendy and cool. Um, even you think about like um, you know, Birkenstocks, man. Like I remember there was a period of time where like you wouldn't be caught in Birkenstocks unless you were like at a vegan restaurant or at a Grateful Dead show and then it became like the hottest fashion accessory. Um, what do you think creates those kind of, you know, like that there's like that core audience that's loyal no matter what and they stick with the brand no matter what and then there's these fluctuation moments where brands get to like breathe out and consume the culture. What do you think?

[00:32:41]>> That's super super great question. Um, and I and I think so Chuck Taylor would be a good example of that, right? That brand um, Converse started in 1908.

[00:32:54]Chuck Taylor became a um a Converse athlete in 1917 and basically for about 85 years that brand kind of uh oscillated between 10 and 20 million pairs sold per year, right? And there was this kind of like fiction that was built around like every seven years there's a a boom and a bust.

[00:33:20]And some of that was because they had their own factories in in North Carolina. And when when the consumer demand would wayne a little bit, they kept making the same amount of pairs.

[00:33:32]And and so what would invariably happen is they would reach the market and be marked down because there wasn't the demand for it, right? And so it was one of those things that it exacerbated the trend. Um but when we got there in you know 2004 um we were doing about 20 million pairs and then nine years later we were doing 75 million pairs and I think and by it was by far you know so we did about 500 million pairs um in that period of time and was by far you know the the biggest footwear statement ever. Um, and it was interesting because it started out as being kind of counterculture and then it it obviously became just a a ubiquitous youth culture statement and we, you know, kind of hooked it to this idea of being a creative catalyst and, you know, it was really kind of central to music, to art, to fashion. Um, and and really like we we did some great things with it. Um, and it at the the end it was like, you know, even some of the stalwarts that had been with the the brand for 30 years, they recognized in girls that were 12 years old that, you know, were wearing a a a pink pair, they were still like, "Yep, that they're still part of our cult, right?" Like, they are they are still part of the team. which I thought was super interesting because that was one of the things we were concerned about because it was really driven you know at the end by um you know younger women those 13 to 24 year olds buying it um and we found that it didn't alienate anybody else um and then your other example Birkenstock is a great one like it it certainly was um a niche brand um and then I think COVID came along and the utility of that product was really recognized. Like the the shoes are unbelievably comfortable.

[00:35:42]And then they've done a a really great job of kind of iterating, you know, holding on to that core comfort ideal, holding on to, you know, great uh great full grain leathers and that cork. um and and having that feel but iterating it to lots of other different sandals, you know, closed toe shoes. Um they've they and they're also quality. They they last, right? And so that's kind of I think the opposite example where utility is at the core of of that brand and its success. Um, and then on the Chuck Taylor side, I think it was really about just a, you know, kind of a a cult and and kind of a a lifestyle statement because Chuck Taylor are not, you know, it's a hundred-year-old technology in a sense of, you know, it's open cell foam as as its uh padding, it's super narrow. Um, and you know, if you're over the age of 25, I think they're they're somewhat difficult to to wear, right? Um, but you know it was something that you know it's it what it stood for I think triumphed its utility.

[00:36:58]So I I think those are two kind of polar opposites of of brands that were you know inordinately successful but I think for different reasons.

[00:37:08]>> I love that. All right. So, um, Stokes exploded on the scene with direct consumer sellouts, but you guys, as we mentioned, are rapidly expanding into over 450 retail doors. Uh, you've talked about major chains that are kind of off the beaten path or ones that are more familiar to a middle America audience like Academy of Sports, Shields, or Rack Room. um in an environment where a lot of DTC brands are struggling now, what did you guys do differently to secure rapid wholesale adoption and you know do you think that you guys are an advantage where maybe these kind of middle America retailers haven't quite adopted this retail media strategy where it's paytoplay and you got to buy media in order to get good shelf space and promotion.

[00:37:58]>> Um so a great question. Um, I think that there's a a couple things nested in that. Um, I've always thought, uh, for for most DT for most brands, DTC is a channel and not necessarily a strategy per se. Um then you know we we've certainly all heard of um DTC footwear brands that uh somehow inexplicably became an an AI uh server uh business.

[00:38:34]Um but but the one thing that I know, you know, based on my experience at Hey Dude, is um DTC is is super important, right? You have that one-to-one relationship with the consumer. You understand what he's buying, when he's buying it. You know, you you've got the the ability to have a deep conversation about like what does he think of the brand, what what is what else would he like to to the brand to do. Um but you also know that um you can scale awareness much faster um if you're also have a retail business that's done through wholesale, right? Um and my example of that is when Crocs bought Hey Dude, I think the awareness was about 7%. Um and then after a couple years of of broadened distribution and and um you know just just broader marketing investment it got up to 32% awareness right and so I I do think these things work hand in hand and you have some consumers that you know they they don't like to go out and if they find a brand they like and they you know the sizing works for them they're just going to continue to buy DTC and then other folks I think in particular uh the the folks that are buying stoke.

[00:39:59]Um again, like you can't you can't get that sense of we can talk all all we want about the holy [ __ ] comfort on our DTC. Um but >> trial is super important to slip them on.

[00:40:11]>> Yeah. When you slip them on that's that's when you know Yeah, absolutely.

[00:40:14]We we hit the mark. So you definitely you know you definitely need both. Um, and I think the retail experience is obviously also um, important because that's kind of the moment of truth, right? The guy's got his wallet, he's 12 feet from the cash register, he's got a pair of your shoes on, he's obviously in active, you know, discovery to buy mode.

[00:40:37]Um, versus he was served up a, you know, meta ad, um, and then all of a sudden he sort of became curious. So, I really think you need both. And I I don't think DTC is uh necessarily a strategy. Um I I think it's a it's a channel and it's an important channel.

[00:40:55]>> Love it. Um we talked a little bit about Grassroots Connections. Uh I wanted to uh get your take on the New England Star Speedway Partnership position positioning yourself as an official footwear on short track pit cruise and race operations. Um, why is it more important to look at the grassroots in the motorsports brand versus going after, you know, obviously the guys behind the wheel, for instance, but really you guys are helping the guys that are behind the scenes that keep these drivers on the road. That's your core audience. So, can you talk about how a sponsorship like that works and how do you uh how do you bring that into your marketing?

[00:41:36]>> Yeah, absolutely. So, so we actually have uh two race teams out there um right now aside from uh the New England um Speedway. Um and it's been, you know, we were down in Nashville about three weeks ago just meeting consumers, meeting the pit crews. Um, and we actually we featured a bunch of them in our social media advertising because these guys live large that like they're on their feet 12 hours a day, right?

[00:42:15]They're they need something that's comfortable. You know, they're not the star of the show, right? They're not they're not the the athlete that's winning the race. They're they're that average all-American guy, you know, the engine room of America. that's that's our guy. Um, and the the way that they use these shoes is exactly how um is representative of, you know, the 65 million guys um that are that are working hard. Um and so we we did some, you know, some clips around that for social media that have been really resonant with our consumer. Um, and then we thought, you know, why don't why don't we do some other things, you know, let's find some other Speedways. Let's sponsor the guys that are in the pit crew. Um, and you know, when you when you think about how they're using the shoes, um, and the fact that there's a lot of them and and very few drivers, um, it just seemed to be something that was a, you know, a something cool to do and and b kind of a nod to our guy. Um, and and you know, it's been fantastic.

[00:43:26]It's been and it's been a lot of fun because the other thing we know is like our guy is about the, you know, he's about football. He's about NASCAR. He he, you know, loves beer, loves barbecue, he loves his pickup truck. Um, and and you know, this this really speaks to him. Um, and he's our guy and and you know, we love him and we love making sure that that he feels great in in the shoes. So, I think it was just a good good spark point um to to get after and and support these guys that are that are kind of in the crew.

[00:44:02]>> I love it. Well, let's give everybody one more look at these beautiful shoes.

[00:44:07]Thank you again for the gift, Rick. I really appreciate it. I can't wait to give it a try myself.

[00:44:14]>> Dylan, you got to you got to show them you got to show them the outsole and all.

[00:44:18]>> Where's uh is that on right back here?

[00:44:21]>> Yeah. Yeah. Lots of lots of bolts. We get uh more bolts per dollar than any other brand.

[00:44:27]>> Let's go. I love it. Very cool. All right, guys. as well. Uh Rick, if folks at home want to uh continue to follow along with your guys' journey, connect with you or find somewhere to try on a pair of Stokes or order a pair to try at their own home. Where do you want to send folks?

[00:44:46]>> So stokes shoes.com definitely. We've got a a very broad assortment. Um we're in Shields, we're in Academy, two of the best sporting goods retailers. Um, we're in rack room, we're in shoe department, we're in shoe sensation. Those are the the best of the best in terms of family footwear. Um, and then Murdoch's Runnings, North 40 are in this really great uh Fleet Farm channel. Um, so th those are some of the places that you can go to um and experience uh all that that Stoke Shoes has to offer.

[00:45:25]>> Love it. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show, Rick. Really appreciate you spending a little bit of time with our audience. And for those of you who are at home, don't forget to give the show a follow or subscribe if this is the first time you're hanging out with us. And if you're listening to the show, a honest review on whatever podcast platform you might be listening would be a great uh a great benefit to us. And yeah, if you know a guy out there, 75% of American men over the ages of 35 who feet get wide and they're tired after 12 hours. Uh, don't forget to share the show with somebody who you think you might want to try these bad boys out with or if there's a marketer out there who maybe is needs a master's class in marketing to all those cities and all those places between Los Angeles and New York. Uh there are some brands that are having some big wins by focusing on a an audience that Wall Street and Madison Avenue have typically overlooked over the last few years and uh or just somebody who you think would enjoy the conversation that I had with Rick today. Uh Rick, tell Ian I said hi.

[00:46:31]Great surprise to hear his name come up in the research and uh I will appreciate Thanks again for coming on and really appreciate your time.

[00:46:39]>> My pleasure, Dylan. really uh really appreciate the uh uh opportunity to tell the story of Stoke. Um enjoy the shoes and and let me know let me know how they feel. Leave us a uh leave us a nice review.

[00:46:53]>> You got it. Done deal. Talk to you soon.

[00:46:55]>> Awesome. Thanks. Bye-bye.