This video analysis explores how graphic novels can serve as powerful allegorical tools for examining real-world issues of imperialism, cultural assimilation, and systemic manipulation. The book Squire by Nadia Shamas and Sara Alfageeh uses fantasy elements to explore how empires maintain control through propaganda, how marginalized communities are exploited, and how individuals must navigate complex power structures while preserving their cultural identity. The discussion highlights how the narrative challenges readers' assumptions about stereotypes, demonstrates the psychological impact of indoctrination, and examines the tension between integration and assimilation in colonial contexts.
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Added:[music] [music] Hello everybody. Welcome back to all reader narrator and welcome back crisis to all reader narrator because you have been on before.
>> I have been on before. They're spreading lies and untruths in the chat but I've definitely been on at least twice before but not anytime in recent memory.
>> Yeah. Good. Listen, you're a busy person. You got a lot going on.
>> I got I It's true. So do you. We and I think we both had a similar day of like anything else I don't know if we would have done this but this >> each other in this show and this book will do. I was like, "If it's you and we're hanging out, I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'll be there. Two videos in one night, I'm here. That's fine. As long as it's you."
>> You know, you were my introduction to Kyle Starks when we read Peace Maker Tries Hard. He is now like an instant buy for me. Every number one, >> so you know, you're out there influencing people.
>> I'm so glad. I love him so much. And he's just a funny guy in real life, too.
Like, he's so funny. Like, disarmingly funny. Um, but yeah, I'm very excited. I put on lashes for you. That's a real That's real love.
>> And you sent me a picture earlier and I was like, "Oh, the eyes are popping out." And you're like, "That would be lashes. Lashes lashes are on the eyes."
>> I'm very I don't wear a lot of makeup.
Only for sometimes, but I do lashes and stuff.
>> I wear a lot of makeup. So, >> well, it looks so good. Probably not for both of us.
>> I wish you [laughter] live near me so much for a multitude of reasons.
>> Yeah, many.
>> That's also one of them. [laughter] >> Mostly we have >> because then we could pull our hair collection and we can pull our eyeshadow palettes and we would be so much more powerful.
>> Unstoppable.
So, >> welcome back, Carson.
We're here to talk Squire, a book that I own and remembered totally that I owned this and we love that.
>> Yeah. You know, for me, I mean, we were talking about what could we do to get back together >> and I was like, I've been looking at my to be read pile and I've had this in the pile for literal years. Yeah.
>> All through a lot of people who've watched other near condition shows in the channel know that I had some health challenges this year. I was in a lot of doctor's offices. as I was waiting for surgery and this came with me everywhere and at first I started reading the first few pages but then it became kind of like a safety blanket. I was like okay well I have my copy of Squire with me like if anything goes wrong I guess I'll just read Squire.
>> Uh but I never actually read it. And so now that I'm like all healed and I'm you know back at all of my physical activity and I feel great. It kind of felt like to consummate that whole season of injury that we should get together and read it. So, I am the new reader here, except for I it's I've been like clutching it to my chest for like eight months, but I had only been maybe that that far into it until this week.
>> Yeah.
>> And I thought that I hadn't read this and this has also been on my to read list, but this happens to me often >> or I am for certain. I was like, I've never read this. [laughter] I do another show. like, "Oh, wait. This happened with myself and Jessica Ashcraft about Batgirl on I think on on this channel, if not fan girls." And it was like to the year, like to the day to the year, a year after we had already she and I done this before, and we had both completely forgotten that we had done it. Um, but I I'm so stoked we're reading this anyways going to talk about it because I think one, it's a kind of story you and I both like.
>> It's one that I think is very topical. I mean, what isn't topical now, to be fair, but there's a lot to talk about with this. Um, and the art's fantastic.
I love the kind of world setting for this.
Um, and I'm excited about what they all like what all they took inspiration from. And they mentioned Turkey and I'm going to Turkey >> October. Um, so I was like, ah, yes.
Well, >> well, you know, one of the first things that struck me about it and and this I think a lot of this book really deals with both in the plot and and reacting to the book, the idea of kind of like stereotypes and assumptions, right? So, when I first saw this book with knowing nothing else, I saw the word squire. I saw what looked like kind of an androgynous character and then I read started reading the description and identified the character as a girl and I'm like oh she probably wants to be a squire and can't like immediately in my head I assumed that the framing of the story was going to be this this is kind of like some sexism thing she wants to be a knight and she can't >> and and even in the beginning chapters of the story there was no indication at first that that couldn't be the case so I kind of just had an idea in my head of what it would be and then when we'll get into it. But like as the story progresses, you see there's plenty of women who are knights and plenty of women who are squires and plenty of women who are generals and that's not what the story is. And I think I made I kept making a lot of assumptions about what kind of book it ought to be or it should be or I expected it to be. And it it never really turned out to be any of those which is actually interestingly very reflective of the characters journey in the book too. Did you have any pre-nowledge of this book? Had you read anything else by um Sarah Alpha or Nadia Shamas? Like did you have any preconisting notion?
>> No, I did. I remember um before this came out I was following both of them either like on Twitter back in the day or Instagram. I remember following both of them through this process but not knowing much else.
>> Just knowing that I kind of liked their overall vibe as people that I follow online. [laughter] Um so I didn't have a lot of knowledge going into this other than, you know, I'm a I'm big into covers >> and I will judge a book by its cover. I have no shame in that. I feel like they should try for me. And this cover, I mean, it is just gorgeous and always stands out to me. And I knew immediately I was like, regardless if this fantasy or not or whatever this is going to be, I'm probably going to like it. So, I didn't go in with a lot of expectations other than like, >> okay, I'm going to deal with something.
I I assumed fantasy.
>> Me, too. I definitely I was like Squire and kind of just the setting, the columns, and you know, everything. It just kind of screamed fantasy to me. And it's interesting if you did you read the little bit of back matter in the book >> uh where she's talking about like it was going to be fantasy in her original art school conception of it >> and then she realized that this story actually was so much more powerful if you just make it a girl and it's not an orc right like there was a point that it was just going to be about an orc but actually Sarah kind of played with the character models and the people and she's like no this whole story about assumptions and stereotypes and and and the and humanity is actually much more powerful if everybody is just a human.
>> Yeah, it's a beautifully nuanced book.
So, for for chat, um, basically what we have here is we we meet this character named Isa, who's our main character.
She's part of an ethnic group called the Orno, and they don't over they don't like completely lay out all of the information, which I also very much appreciate. We are picking up information about this world as we go.
But in the beginning of the of the story, we see Isa in the marketplace and she is selling I think peaches or something.
>> Apricots.
>> Apricots. Thank you. Um, so she's selling apricots and someone she she starts she raises her hand and there's she has tattoos on it obviously like a a cultural symbol for her and they get into that those markings so that they can find one another and the person sees it and immediately starts talking down to her and saying because she's or we hear it for the first time and very quickly we see the reactions of people around her and we we learn that she is considered a second class citizen here because she's or new. And a little bit after that, we learned that this is like a she's part of a mandated group. So, she's like a refugee group. They we're we are in a situation called the the where an empire is taking control and taking over different cultural groups around different countries around them and bringing them into their empire in a in a very um for people who study history at all or just now understand that like people way people that will take over other cultures and bring them in on the opices of taking care of them and having unity when really it is eraser of other culture. cultures and changing the sto the whole story is about changing is is a world that has changed the truth, right, to a story that fits this empire and her and having to live in that. And so she wants to become a knight, a squire to eventually become a knight so she can have citizenship is where we the the simple premise of that.
>> Some of that was even interesting again just playing with the assumptions of readers, right? as readers in the current world environment, you see her return home to her tent city. You think, "Oh, these are displaced people. Are they are they kind of like immigrants?"
Which, you know, is always in my mind because I'm an immigrant myself who does not have citizenship. And like I start to identify that, but then clearly historically there's a lot of precedent for this idea of empire building and kind of expanding the borders of the empire, but then treating the people you expanded as secondass. But like that is not at least in the kind of like American western story in the present day as prominent in our mind as immigration stories or as taking somebody else's land. And this is so much >> it definitely like turned my assumption on its head. It's like well no they're not migrants. They're they're here. This might have been like a place that they lived to begin with as we learn later in the book. But they're not really being afforded. they have to maybe, you know, pay more taxes, but they're being, it's being said that they don't pay taxes.
They have to grow fruit, but then there's no mechanism really for them to like safely sell it, but then they're being called the bread basket of the empire. So really, in the opening scenes, and you get way more context for this as the book goes on, you get you kind of get all of the assumptions that people have about her people that they that they are they're hiding their money, they're hiding their food, they shouldn't even be there, they can't be trusted. And then you go to their home life and they just have this very loving family and they ju, you know, and they're like, "We're doing everything right. Maybe maybe that respect will come in time." And as somebody who's im immigrant, although I'm in a very privileged position as an immigrant, I was like, "Wow, well, that was a gut punch because it really flipped my assumptions on its head." And also now I'm like super engaged with where we're going with this story.
>> Yeah. I mean, super I I appreciate stories at Disney. They don't tell you everything all at once. You know, it's very easy to say like here is the whole situation of the world before getting into it, but I think it's really important when you're focusing on the characters and how they feel and what their world looks like. Um, and doing so by not giving all the details. Let's learn about the world through her and her experiences. Yeah.
>> So, we can empathize with her in a similar way that like the other characters meet one another throughout the story. you know, when she goes into training to be a squire, she does not reveal her lineage to anyone. She has wrappings over her cultural markings, which were beautiful, by the way. Like, I love it that they're there. So, you know, you can recognize each other in kind. So, if you meet another owner, they know that you are one of them and you have a a bond and to take care of one another. But she has to hide that because of the the the prejudice people have against her. So she does not reveal that for her own safety and so she can just be treated as her and we have the benefit of meeting her where she's at and learning how other people treat her with them with those wrappings cover with those markings covered in without and learning about how those and without knowing that their side either. So we we get to experience just her and then get little trick like tricklings later of what they've been fed about her community. Yeah, it's really ultimately a book that's I mean I don't want to get too deep into this now, but it's a book about propaganda at at some level, which is one of my favorite kind of books.
It's why I like the third Hunger Games book of the original Hunger Games.
>> But uh something that's really worth pointing out is these this cultural tattoo that she has, it's not a reclaimed symbol. It's not like a pink triangle that was used as a symbol to identify them as a minority that should be oppressed. It's their symbol. And so there's not any of this um like reclamation narrative with it. Like she's actually quite proud about it, but it's and again turning the narrative on its head. It's her parents that tell her that she should hide the symbol if she's going to go to the night training.
Usually in any book like this that's like a hero's journey of a kid that's like of the minority. It's the it's Mulan who's like I can't show them that I'm a girl. It's it's some kid who's like I'm going to pass for something else. Here you have the parents saying, "Look, you should always be proud of who you are. We would never tell you to not be who you are, but just so that that people can judge you just for the content of your character, you should cover up your tattoo." Again, I was like, I don't it's just it was just so unexpected to me. I've just never read a book that every time I'm like, "Well, I know how this this she's going to sneak out at night. She's going to cover her tattoo." Like, every time I thought I knew, I didn't know. And I appreciate it. It felt very real and it felt very true to what those situations would be like because this this is a you know fictitious world that is very much based and inspired by real countries, real places, real lineages. Um they talk about them a lot in the it it towards the end of the book, you know, doing a lot of traveling, visiting places for inspiration.
um looking at different cultures because she even talks about how like you know when um like Sarah talked about uh they talk about growing up and watching and reading fantasy and seeing that oftent times you know people that look like them people of more Middle Eastern cultures uh who have a darker skin were always seem to be more of a villain right so if you have like your Indiana Jones or you have like these different types of stories it's like oh these people that are like from the desert or from these places or they are like the enemy and like they're the unknown and the savages and to see a fantasy story with the squire and knight that is not that is really powerful but also you know shares those kinds of stories there because you have a lot of different people different skin tones so it's not about the skin tones in this book it's about the empire and the different cultures in the background >> well and again I think that that's a very maybe it's a very American assumption maybe it's a very white privileged assumption but like you almost feel like as you get as she gets to training and I want to talk about one more And there are people of all different skin tones.
I feel like I'm trained and this is like an inherent bias and like inherent racism. I'm like, "Oh, their skin color is going to be a plot point." No, >> everybody's just there. Like I just think that there was a lot of me disassembling a lot of inherent bias that I approach stories with because I approach with a western lens. I appro I approach with a very white privileged lens. And I had it took me probably like 90 pages into it where into a 300page book where I was like, "Okay, I really have to stop assuming that I know the story beats that are going to apply to this book." And it really opened my eyes about like how I probably come to a lot of books because especially when you read a lot of like Marvel, DC, even Image comic books, you're used to just predicting what the next story beat is going to be. Like that's just part of your reading experience. And it was really nice to feel disarmed. It's been a long time since I felt that disarmed in such a pleasant way that I just couldn't really anticipate anything.
>> And that's smart because they help me focus on what's really like the point in this.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, they like we're like they want you to focus on, you know, the prejudice against different cultures and what imperialism does.
>> Yes.
>> We need to take out the gender. We need to take out how that could affect him.
to take out the race and how show how these things can happen even without that because I think there's it's people get muddied in there, right? We're like, oh, they're doing because it's a woman or doing this because it's like we we're focused on this issue, >> right? Well, and I would even say that the book is quite stridently um a-romantic. There are one or two points that you're that again that bias you have towards stories like this, like Mulan, which I was going to be at speak on Mulan. I was like Husnney and Bim. I was like >> I was shipping Husnney with everybody.
Everybody that Husn met I was like oh he's going to get with them.
>> Well yeah for a second I thought even Zafar I was like >> is this something?
>> No but it wasn't that kind of book. And again it like really kept me centered on the story. Now I want to talk about one more thing before we get to them training. So >> yeah let's go.
>> In this awesome classic scene the knights come into town. And I will say that I like how they arrive and we first see her perceive them because they're not threatening in any way. Like it's not like they're in this town to like oppress her or beat her up or chase her away. They're there and they say, "Residents of the Quamama province, we come bearing glorious news for you and your young ones." And it is presented as as for everyone. And you can just I mean, this is one of my favorite pages of art in the whole thing. Here she is with her apricot >> on her head. Here's the knight arriving.
And let me just show the next page as um the knights start talking to everybody and like there's nothing threatening about them and they seem very very benevolent at first glance and the thing is that she doesn't want to be a knight to kill people. She doesn't want to be a knight to go to war. She and she as we learn as she meets Husnney who's the first person she meets kind of on the on the the the um cart ride to the training grounds. She doesn't actually know anything about like the military and knight culture, which is partially her being Oru, but partially her she she her interest in this is so pure. She like wants to help people. She wants to be more of a part of the empire. She wants to integrate >> and so but she doesn't know the myths or whatever. It doesn't matter. She just wants to integrate because integration will help her and help her family and it's a thing that a good citizen should do. So it was really interesting to me like oh again most of these kinds of stories she would already have a favorite night. she would already idolize some kind of knight. But as she's on the cart with Husni, who's this very kind of like posh boy, he's wearing silk pants. He's like, "Sit down on the hay in my silk pants." I'm like immediately this is my character. I have already identified with him.
>> He's my main. Yeah. Um >> and she actually knows nothing. She knows nothing about this. She just wants to do it because she sees the knights as virtuous. And to our to our eyes, yeah, the knights seem entirely virtuous.
Actually, she it's very credulous to believe her there.
>> Yeah, of course. Because I mean, yeah, she's she doesn't see anyone with trying. She's like, "This is like the American dream where she's like, "This is my chance to prove myself and do something for us. This is the way I'm going to do it, and I'm going to prove myself to the country."
>> Yeah.
>> And I do like that as we continue on through the book, we realize that no one really knows.
>> No.
>> Truly.
>> And I think that's great. No matter what side you're on, you don't really have an understanding because you're not supposed to, right? Like the same with like you know why why would your your knights go through you know what I guess I guess it's a sensibly like an ornate community right or your sort of like conquered people's community and say yeah anybody can join this you and I would see something like that like oh there's a reason >> you know you have a you have a a selfish reason to do that but a kid who's there who's been raised in that it's like no these are good people this is my chance heroic and here's like a way that is definitely a way for me to make my way up that's real and there's no like caveats or like hidden schemes there because they're like oh you can own land you know this can be yours >> which really no [laughter] >> well there's so many interesting aspects of that as we like move to the journey to them training one is that I I love the thing you just pointed out because it made all these like tumblers and gears click into place in my head which is that there's this very like seven samurai kara effect of like they all have a different perspective on what the knights are and that benefits the knights and the knights do nothing to disabuse them of that like there's no it's kind of like in Star Wars where wherever you are in the empire kind of affects your ideas about the Jedi and the Jedi are so mythical that you've probably never met one you've only heard stories about them but here the knights you have met them and you've seen their impact on your community and yet there seems to be this vagueness among the kids who are being recruited of like what is what do what are knights and what does it really mean and what is their job and part of that is because the front of the war is always kept it's so fascinating it reminded me of like old war world war I books like all quiet on the western front and things like that where the front of the war is never seen who is the war against who they're just expanding their territory but the threat that looms over them is if you committed to this training and you are not good enough to be a squire who will become a knight then you're just sent to the front lines >> which is wild.
>> Well, but there's no they just keep saying it and every again it's this imaginary place that everybody has a different Some people think it's virtuous, some people think it's a meat grinder, but it's so far offcreen and it's so far outside of their lives. They don't even actually seem to know where the front lines are or what people do on the front lines or who's on the other side of the front lines. It was almost giving me like 1984 like where we've always been at war with Eurasia. Nobody knows what where the front line. It's just this looming threat of like, well, you don't if you don't you don't want to crash out of this program and be on the front lines.
>> Lars, [laughter] my god, it's like the literary sector of the Miss America contest. I can't wait for the song and dance portion of me.
[laughter] >> Thank you, Lars.
>> Thank you, Lars, for stopping by. If you've read this book, you could jump in. Lars, have you read Squire?
[laughter] You're always >> All right.
We love Lars.
>> Yeah. I like So, we we get into the training portion, >> which I love. Anyway, I love a nice training portion. You you mentioned Mulan. I always think about Mulan.
>> I I love all the all the kids getting to know one another and and seeing the different ways that like >> they're training and things are coming together because we have the typical things, right? Like instead of rope climbing, we have go ladder up and down.
[laughter] Oh, I was like, I'm getting one of those weighted vests and I'm climbing ladders. They're putting on these vests with sand in them and then they got to climb ladders for four hours. I'm like, that's probably going to help with my sweating. I should probably do that.
>> Yeah. Ellie's like, "You should get a weighted vest. One, for autism, and two for working out. It'll be so [laughter] good." I'm like, "You're probably right."
>> But then would I just want to take a nap throughout my whole workout because I already sleep under a weighted blanket and that >> Yeah, same. I do too.
>> I needed a nap before this to just reset my brain. I put the weighted blanket on.
I had like less than an hour. I was out in two seconds. Two seconds, Maddie.
>> No, I also I got home. I was like, "Okay, I need to eat, orchestrate my nap, so I have time to prepare for the first live stream." And then I knew that once that was done, I'm like, "Okay, we're fine." Because now I can hang out with you. Okay. But I was like, "I have to reset."
Uh but oh but the whole idea of getting into training it does it does one classic thing that what is a trope and a stere stereotype and in a very sweet way which is the first person that they meet this other trainee Safar who's um got her own very interesting backstory that I could have I could have read a whole book about her >> she she's like we got here a day before you so we are we have the nice stones to sleep on and you're like oh this is going to be like their antagonist for but no within like a day she's kind of like their buddy because you know you can't help but love um Asa and and Husnney. And so now they're like a little trio with Safar. But and that and that's very kind of like initial antagonist to to close friend. That's that's very tropey, but it was told in a really delightful way because again she we have these three characters that are from such different backgrounds. Like they truly have nothing in common and they really represent like three different constituent parts of this empire.
>> Yeah. Which is interesting because you learn more I like I like the way that you get to learn more about them. You know, again, it's just kind of trickled there because we we have the training.
We're introduced to Zafar by her being kind of a a little bully, but almost it's more of her being scared, right, of losing her spot almost. They're all kids. Um running into Bim, who is Hney's friend when he was younger.
>> Now, this is interesting because BM is the only person we meet who's same. I mean, they're clearly from different walks of life in their home, but they were friends as kids. They're from the same place. They know each other's fathers. So, this is the one time in the book that this whole kind of like different perspective effect is clashes and we have two people telling the the same story about each other that conflicts rather than telling these very separate stories from very different times and places, >> right? Because we have Hy who is definitely from wealth like his his his father's a businessman, >> right? pants >> and then we suck pants and we have BM who is also you know I I would say well off because his father is a highranking military official so he has a lot of pressure on himself but even mentions BM mentions that he >> was from a group that was assimilated into the empire >> right from his perspective it seems really positive like he his father is rich and famous his father is a knight like again like it's like okay so maybe this is like a a dream a dream success story. Like he's a second generation knight potentially.
>> Yeah. Like my father did it and I have a lot to prove, not just to my dad, but I have to prove. There's a lot of like the model minority thing going on here in this section. And then later on when we see Isa interact with the Orno, which it, you know, empires love to do and they've done throughout history. I'm a I'm a huge history nerd. It's part of my like um my degrees is is tapped into international history and relations. But when you have a a um a new power taking over, something that they tend to do is when they take over community, they want to find minorities that they can basically assimilate and and convince them to prove themselves to them.
>> Yeah.
>> And say, "Hey, if you can fight your own kind, you're the good you're the good one. Actually, you're the good kind. So, we'll reward you and use you to then assimilate further other of your people." Right. But it is >> also like all these other new ones are not as good as you. You did a great job.
>> All of these Yeah.
>> You're not like the other war news, right? You're not like them. And this happens with we see in in all sorts of societies, but you see a lot in war, but you see it everywhere, right? You see that with, you know, gender politics.
You see that with career politics. You see that everywhere. It's like, oh, but you're the you're one of those good gays, right? You're one of those good women, but we need you to sell your other kind and be different. So we need to you need to we do with it you know whatever comics or politics I don't even care um politics or history whatever but like you think about you know the US with Native Americans right we're like >> okay yeah sure you can be the good kind and go to our schools and forget your language and assimilate and this happens throughout all sorts of countries >> in in history but I think it's very well illustrated in this book and I think especially >> BM is one of the first really interesting cases of it >> well especially because again BM and Husnney are from the same place. They have that same reason. They should be operating from the same reason >> and they both have been formed into kind of the model minority because they're both here. They're doing it, but their opinions are are really really different. Hus is not like as bought into he's doing it because he thinks it's a thing that's valerous and he's been sold on the um the stories of the knights as these he knows all their names, the names of all of their great weapons. He's like a a Jedi fan, right?
BM has this very like commercial relationship with it like you become a knight because that's how you move up in society. My father moved up in society.
He doesn't mythologize it at all. He in a way is the most realistic about any of them about like how hard the training is going to be and what it takes. And again, it kind of like turns the trope on its head because yeah, he's the kid who had the most privilege and the most pre-training out of all them. There's always that kid in every kind of magical kid or or night school kid story who like already has the private school training, but he doesn't it's hard like you are meant to hate him a little bit, but he does come from this very realistic perspective of he's not rubbing it in their face. He's like you are all here for a reason that's not what knights are. My dad's a knight. I'm here expecting the thing we're actually going to be doing. I'm not romanticizing it at all. And so like in a way you he's again very credulous, you know, like you have no reason to not believe his story.
His story actually seems like the the most credulous story. And we get this one scene where they're all writing letters to home. And to me, this is where the story kicks into high gear. I was like enjoying it. And then after that scene, I I found that I was like really gripping the book.
>> And we see how all four of these primary kids um describe the first couple of days of training to their families as they send the letters home. And BM has the most trouble with it because there's nothing to say. His dad has done it.
He's doing it because his dad did it.
There's no romanticism. He's there because it's the thing that he's there to do. And so you see all these other people kind of Sahar's like, "I'm doing it because I I know it's going to bring money to our family." HN's like, "It's not that bad. I'm strong. I'm doing fine." Um, you know, Asa's like, "Don't worry. Like every I'm everything's going well. You made the right decision to send me." And BM's like father, I mean general, I mean senator.
>> Yeah. Is trying to write in pros and it's just too well because you can tell which is great. Great storytelling because you can tell everything about each of those characters without show without having to tell us without having to overdo it.
>> We can tell that Sahar Zafar Zahara came from like where she's from. She's from a poor background but has a family that supports her because she's like, "Hey, >> thank you so much. I'm really doing I'm really doing well. Don't worry about writing back to me. I know how expensive it is.
>> I know how much expensive paper is >> for you.
>> And so already we are keyed into like a million things.
>> Yeah.
>> And I love that. So we can see that like this girl that we've met is also coming from a troubled background, but we don't know what exactly. We do, but we don't, right? And >> but it also gives you level. And by the way, I just have a really good friend named Sahar. So I'm just saying so I don't know if it's with more of a >> You're probably right. I don't know.
>> Yeah. But um but what was so interesting to me is we again I kind of encountered Asa's story as one of the ornu as being like okay well they're impoverished but she doesn't say anything about how papers expensive don't write back. It's Sahar who actually seems pretty cool and like like she's I not like she is more privileged and she's so strong. She reminds me of April from Lumber James because she's got that red hair and she's like so big and tough and then she's writing home and she's like don't waste paper on replying to me and it's like oh wow you yet again our are our expectations of be reset but Maddie now I think we have to introduce like the the big conflict of the book which is General Hend >> General So we see them all writing these letters. It's so cute. It's so sentimental. You're like falling in love with these characters and then General Hend takes them all and she just keeps them in her office and reads them to get to know her recruits better.
>> Yeah. And so we can tell that she's obviously here to do some shady things and continue to do shady things. She we see that she has the letter and she's talking to VM and using him because of course he's trying his best to get her favor using him to keep tabs on Isa because now she's realized that Isa is Oru and she's like I'm going to use this for my advantage. Well, we what's interesting is at first as readers, we don't know that she knows that she's Orno because we don't know the whole history, but we know that she's picked up that Isa's kind of like hiding something. Uh, but yeah, that's and but the thing is even still, and now we're going to get start to get into twists from this point forward, General Hend at first, she seems pretty virtuous. She seems pretty fair. She's not really playing too much favorites with everybody, even when people even when Asa fails her first squire test. And so the people who it's kind of like a double elimination round robin thing. If you fail your first one, then your training gets harder and you have more duties. And if you fail your second one, you go to the front lines.
And >> even when she fails the first one, she gets put >> on guard duty at the armory overnight, which seems like pretty lightweight punishment. And it it's engineered so that she will meet this, oh, you know the guy's name. I've already forgotten, >> right? That she will meet him. And it seems almost like Hend intends that to happen. So it's kind of like again, as we hit the midpoint, at which point I was super super invested. It's like this is such a great story. It's turned every trope on its head. All these kids have a chance. You know, maybe Hend is secretly helping Asa. Maybe Hend is secretly Oru, right? And then we reach the midpoint and things start.
>> Yeah. H so good because then Isaac gets sent to do the guard duty at the armory.
She uh meets the janitor, cookook slash just handy guy, Daruk. He's got one arm and she's practicing her swords while she's trying. She's trying to stay awake because they're working these kids to death, which you know adds into the they don't actually want to train them. They just want them to be fodder for the the front lines, I think, and use them.
>> Also, I think he's a hottie. I'm just going to say right here would um [laughter] >> and here you can see him go from his more kind of fantastical version in the early designs to this very kind of regular guy version that >> yeah he's just a guy that's there and he's like oh you need to use the you know you need to you're slashing or you do this >> and the and the relationship she has with him previously is that he's spooning out her grl and she like hates either the grl or the amount of grl and this just reminds me of something very specific. I don't know if it's Giant Days or if it's like Kate Beaton or something, but there's like something about the way she's scalling there that I was like, "Oh, this is like a very specific."
>> I like I like that the art lets her be silly looking every once in a while cuz she's a because she's a run, but she has some really funny facial expressions.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Which I love. I love you have that like brevity cuz she is like that.
>> She's a little rep scaling, you know, like >> and it's important that she's funny.
Like it's I don't I think it's important to the book to maintain some silliness inherent to her because a it keeps the story light, but b it like reminds us that she's she's in this for such a different reason than the rest of them.
None of the rest of them have the capacity to be as silly as her because they don't they don't have that innocence level. Even Husny who is maybe quite naive but he doesn't have the innocence level that she has because in that higher culture that he's from where that's moneyed he kind of like understands the world a little bit better than she does the world um that she's entering into. She knows a lot of things about the world and how tough it is but she's not kind of like aware of the social strata that she's going to be stepping into potentially as a night.
>> Yeah. We find out that she doesn't really know what the story books are telling people about the war, right? She doesn't really know completely what that looks like to other people because we get this point where at this point she starts training with Dur because he gives in. Of course he does. And he starts training her uh and teaching her about things in the world. She's getting better as he knows about but she's also spending less time with her friends which leads up to more instances of kind of misunderstanding between her especially with Husni especially. And then we get to a point where she overhears Hussein making uh an orange joke and she's like, "Why would you do that?" But she she's not thinking that moment like, "Hey, you don't know that about me, right?" But she's thinking because nobody knows. Why would you do that? He's like, "That's just talk."
>> And you know that's how that's how nights talk. That's just jokes. And don't you know how they are, right? And we had that first great moment because we're not between that and this point. We haven't really talked in the book about her or new.
>> No. The only mean thing that's happened to her is the way the kids in the town treated her buying her apricots. Like you're lulled into a little bit of a sense of security that like, oh, everybody, this is totally egalitarian.
It's totally a meritocracy. Like it doesn't matter when you're at Knight's College, >> but that's not true.
>> And it really reminded me >> for anybody who It reminded me of two very real world things. I'm sorry. I just have so many thoughts, Maddie. And >> no, please. I'm free. Let's talk.
>> I know. I'm like, we're here now. like no, nobody can stop us. Let's So the one thing I thought about is the idea of when you're passing for something, you're straight passing, you're white passing, you're cis passing, whatever you're passing as, um you're um what is opposite of neurody diverent, holistic or um >> neurotypical >> neurotypical passing.
>> Yeah. and and then you're and so you're in this group where everybody's happy and passing and it's the first time you've ever heard somebody say a nasty thing about your actual identity and you and you can't figure out if you're supposed to laugh or not. And I have had that experience across a few of my identities and um it is it is such a gut punch and it's not even about you. So, you can't be like, "I would never do that cuz you're undercover in that in that environment." And I've had that said about queer people in front of me before I even fully understood >> Yeah.
>> what queer label I wanted for myself.
But I knew that I was queer. And I was like, >> and so you think to yourself like, "Oh, I'm going to be a good I'm just going to play good ally," which is what she does, right? She's like, "Well, I'm not saying that I'm Ordo or Oruo, but like you why would you say that Knights wouldn't talk like that?" And like you've had that experience, right? where you couldn't talk at work. You're like, I'm just going to be a good ally here and be like, we shouldn't talk that way about >> Yeah. It's happened at work where like, you know, I mean, I'm not not open about being queer, but like I'm not open about being autistic because I always worry about how that's going to affect me work-wise.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, but I'm very I am very It's obvious, but I I'm so involved in disability resources. It's like, okay, girl. I'm very open about that. But I had a colleague that, you know, made fun of autistic students, you know, I was like, "Oh god, like these people need some social skills, right?" And I it was like, "Okay, I figure how to navigate this right now to be like every student deserves to go. It doesn't, you know, I mean, to to to have these experiences >> and I don't know how to do this without adding myself to be like, hey, did you know you're next to one?" Like, you're next to one right now. You know what I mean? And it's hard for to navigate that because you're like, how do I out myself and stay safe and do what I need to do, but also be that that force, >> right?
>> And in that moment in the book, it was just so it's minor and it's played. She just overhears it and she confronts them, but it's not like a big >> Yeah. I don't think it's a great big crisis point in the book, but if you've had that experience, then it my eye just my stomach was twisted. Like it to I had this like PS PTSD, which I don't use that lightly in this particular instance. I really mean it. Like I had it took me into that moment immediately. And then the other thing that made me think of is especially now with like you don't know the assimilation or the indoctrination that's happening without you until you see evidence of it. So, it's like especially for kids that are like teenagers and there's some group of the kids that are watching all the YouTube shorts that are taking them to YouTube shows that are taking them into the manosphere and then they're getting like a bunch of misogynist media or whatever and then you see that kid at a birthday party a year or two later and they say something that's so so out there compared to what you would have heard them say as a 12-year-old and now they're a 14-year-old and it's not just a teenager testing bound boundaries, it's that they've been indoctrinated somewhere in the middle of a few years and I just recently had that experience too with kids in my life and and and and and you can't like fly off the handle at them. You have to be like, "Oh [ __ ] I just I missed that whole indoctrination cycle where I could have made a difference. Now I have to fight for I have to fight back this infection because I can't vaccinate them." And she also I feel like had that same in that same moment had that realization of like [ __ ] like I can't just change their minds by saying or were cool. This indoctrination happened a their whole lives, but b in the weeks that I've been away doing my two a day workouts every day, which is why I'm so cool and strong now. They were doing one a day workouts and then the other half of the day they were all indoctrinating each other into this military.
>> You haven't even been around like we haven't even seen you. So, it's a great leadup to like one have that big misunderstanding, but then >> it was done in a way that the other character wouldn't have realized, right?
Because they're focusing on they're not focused on what they said. They're focused on the fact that their friend wasn't there. It's like, oh, she's just being out of sex. She's not my friend anymore.
>> Yeah.
>> So, it's a great like moment of like fog that couldn't be can totally >> Yes.
>> fixed. Um but then you know the point that really uh broke me next is you know obviously General Hend Hendes Hend is in on some things and she sends our little group of friends, a little group of kiddos together to do a 24-hour mission on the border knowing what she's up to, right? Because she's like, "Oh yeah, I >> you get to prove yourself, right? I'm gonna send you to the border to do a just a routine check in the border.
They're kids. They don't have squires yet. She like, "Yeah, I'll let you do routine just like 24 hours in the border on the Or border." And already I'm like, "Uh-uh."
>> Yikes.
>> Yeah. And to them, it feels like a privilege to the characters. But again, this is where I feel like, and this is where my heart was really pumping right around the middle of the book because we're up to this point, our our journey as the reader is the same as the journey of the characters. We know all the same things the characters do. It feels like we're with them. We're we're growing with them. Here, it starts to feel like we're starting to know more things than them. And I like that you use that word fog, like we we can see through the fog that is now surrounding the characters, and we realize that there are things bigger than them that are starting to happen.
>> Yeah. Because I was like regardless, you know, whatever happens, she's sending you there as a test. She's sending their eyes as there as a test to be like, I already know that you're or new. I need to know that you are going to put the empire above your fellow people. And Isa, I mean, she sees them and she, you know, they they they show up to ambush them. They ambush their group. And Isa does fight them. She takes what she's learned from Daruk and she fights her own people and they even see her tattoo, right? Like but but she or not, I guess not at that point later, but like >> but she sees theirs. I think she knows.
>> She knows.
>> And that happens cuz she, you know, as far as she's concerned, these are random people that attacked her, you know, and there's no there's nothing else to it.
And we learn very quickly that this was all orchestrated on purpose because he she tracks down one of these guys later on. But we we learn that this is all orchestrated by the general that she has paid off these people to attack her group to prove a point.
>> Yeah.
>> And that that is powerful. These that this group of kids are going to think oh those or were violent even the orno.
And so either you know she she accomplishes many things. one she either proves that Isa is not with the the empire or that she is and she shows these kids that or bad >> and even to the oru among them Isa it's almost like are you willing to believe that actually many or you're the good or right you you broke out of this you're not like them and it's this is where I was really reminded of Hunger Games and this idea that whether whether it's the president snow or I forget who the good general is I think Julianne Moore plays her in the um like that. The general's doing propaganda too. Everybody's doing propaganda and and it's like that's the whole like militaries don't exist without that. There's no true virtuous >> fighting force. It's all a propaganda war of what you believe you're there to do and the general is kind of playing her card in that situation to to test them, right? Will they really kill somebody else their age? Will they kill for her? Will she fight against a a fellow oru for uh like all four of them are being tested in different ways. So, Maddie, remind me how do we full spoil in the show? I can't remember. We do.
Okay.
>> We do full spoil. Um and I always tell people that like, you know, and I think that's for every book. No matter how much I tell you about a book, if I tell you what's going to happen, I don't think I can properly spoil any of this. Like I don't because we're talking about a book that has so much art and nuance and small moments that you and I can't touch unless we are spending 10 hours on discussing this book.
>> But I think regardless >> if you come back to this later and read it, you are going to be surprised and find moments that resonate with you.
>> But I will say from this point forward, we're going to be spoiling a little more heavily.
>> Yeah, [laughter] >> you can always come back.
>> Yeah, you can always >> but also if you're like me, you can sit through this and then forget and then read it and you'll be fine. and maybe read it that a second time and just have no recollection.
>> I look forward to reading this again in three years and be like, "Wow, I read that. That's crazy."
>> That's how I feel about going back to reading um on a is it on a sunbeam or on a moon beam? I always forget. On a sunbeam again, which was that was the last time I was on the show, maybe.
>> Maybe.
>> I feel like we read it for the show.
>> She's got a new book, too, actually.
>> But um I absolutely have to read that. I I was just like looking at getting out of the library again for kid crisis and I was like honestly I remember that there's like an alternate space but I don't remember really any [laughter] >> so dreamy that it it feels like it's hard to grasp the like >> what what what are the concrete things in that book I think because of the art >> this one's much more concrete but I'm sure >> I love that I can't remember things I think it's great because then I get to >> feature I get to do it again >> love that >> so the I will say this if I One critique of this book, which up until this point that we're like the twothirds mark, this was like 4.5 out of five for me. Love, love, love.
>> I think there's a little bit of deosex machina heading into the end where it's like all of these tumblers have to slide into place so we can get out of here as a 300page book.
>> And I did find myself wondering at one point, was this originally a 400page book? Was this originally two books?
because the sequence of events happens very quickly of her she she gets promoted to to squire. She goes on her first t which is like wow that was fast.
We've heard the fastest it's ever heard happened before is somewhere between one and three years. You don't get the sense she's been there for three years. Then on her first mission as a squire she goes into the village and she finds one of the people that ambushed her and then she comes back like it all clicked and then all of a sudden it's an uprising of all the students against General Hen like and all that happens in basically a hundred pages. And I just felt like b I mean I still liked it but it definitely took me from like a 4.5 to a 3.5 because I was like I felt like all of a sudden it was like stop you can't enjoy these children anymore. Now we've got to spend 100 pages on plot because you've been having too much fun.
>> Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean I I I like the way that becoming a squire quickly changed the plot and it moved things. Um because I thought that was an interesting way for General Hend to like continue her reach over everyone. Uh because uh Oh, question. Thank you. Uh is just friendly.
>> I would say this is like a you could say a teen I would think could read this.
>> How do you You have a child.
>> I I was just actually typing my response. I forgot on this show I can actually just answer questions on air and it's not like an Omar show where I'm secretly communicating time.
>> Yeah. Um, I am I'm im I mean I've already told Kid Crisis she can read this, but she's a little older than um she's almost teen, but I would say that there's there's no graphic violence.
There's absolutely no kind of like sexism or or kind of like any kind of romantic anything like that. I think the only thing that makes it need parental guidance is this idea of um who's discriminated against in culture and like the idea of like colonization and how that makes people be discriminated against. I think absolutely a very strong reading eight or nine-year-old could read this and probably appreciate it and think it's cool and stuff and if they're the kind of kid who's seen Milan, I think that this will probably read just fine for them. But I think they risk only being entertained by the fact that they're teasing the oruse and not really understanding the real world aspect of it. So the question I would reflect back I think it's very all ages friendly but the question I would reflect back to you and any other parent considering or or friend of a child considering giving this to a child is does the child have a concept of colonization and like otherness and model minority because I think if they do they're going to get more from this.
I think if they're the kind of kid who's like who could >> Let me say this. I would put this first on the kid shelf before I would put Superman smashes the clan because that's much more real world and you have to deal with like a very scary real world concept. This is very abstract. But I do think I would give it to a crisis knowing that she is contended with that idea of colonization and kind of like otherness and and model minorities before. So I feel like she's well equipped for it.
>> Does that make sense? I don't think anything about the content is not all ages. Absolutely.
I think it's one of those books that like, you know, I think what's good about this book, which I I mentioned about other books, is that this is a good a lens through which to frame some of these big concepts. So, if this is something that your your child is reading and you like read with them and talk about it, yeah, >> that's awesome because you can be like, why do they do this? Like, what do you think about it? Like, I think that that can have lead to a lot of really thoughtprovoking discussion. Um because I think you know one of the best ways to work through these really hard topics is through stories like this that make it like that take it out of our world but make it something that you can really dig into and feel without being like distracted by real world things.
>> Yeah.
>> Um >> I Yeah, I really >> This book is phenomenal. Made it to the book. Skipped it to my crush. It's definitely a book you gain more from reading a second time and looking at the back of yours. Absolutely.
Absolutely.
>> Freddy has such impeccable taste in recommendations, especially once he knows you and he like knows what kind of things you dig. His hit rate is is really strong.
>> Oh yeah, you can trust Freddy at any recommendation.
>> Yeah. Uh so so okay, so now I've said my one ne it's really the only negative thing I have to say about this book, which I truly think is like a instant classic.
>> I think that's fair.
>> Yeah. I I wanted to either be two volumes or two. He had 14 kind of se sections chapters. So you figured that they were about like I don't know like 25 30 pages each, right? That maths out.
And like I just wanted to have two more sections. I just needed a little bit more text of her becoming a squire. But what this sets up is a really interesting, you know, confrontation whereas like you kind of realize that Hend is all of the bad things that you thought, but still in a really nuanced way. She's like she's making deals with the Orno. They have signed contracts with Hend. Hend is supplying them with some amount of safety and asurances in order for that some of them to play the role of villains and perpetuate the terrorism that and and not like outright terrorism although like you could see this attack on them in the border control as a terrorist attack but like much a [clears throat] much lighter word than terrorism I don't know obstruction of like they are you know they are not um giving all the money they're not giving all the food they are interfering with things they're not integrating and she's perpetuating that. But then at the same time, when Asa goes to the Or new village, they're like, "You don't understand what life is like for us in this village. We're being we're on the border, so we're being taxed by the empire that previously colonized us, and we're being taxed by this new empire.
We're being taxed twice. It's not that we don't have more money to give. It's that we don't have money." So like Eden Hend, who is absolutely the evil villain. I'm not trying to be sympathetic towards her. She's not.
She's still found a way in this to treat some people well, but she's also using the people she needs to use in order to create the story she needs to create.
>> Yeah. And that's why around this idea of knights, >> like since the beginning, so we get this nice background later where Daroo talks to Isa like I didn't teach you these skills so you could kill. I was teach of course he you know he it's more nuanced later when he talks to her but his immediate reaction was we find out later he he that general hen was his pupil and that she cut off his arm >> and that was actually the one thing that was >> he's having some betrayal he's having some like he sees Isa and he's worried that Isa's going to go down the route that Hen did. Yeah, >> because Hen thinks she's righteous in everything she's doing right now because she's like, "No, the Empire is number one.
Even if I hurt people, it's all for bringing there is no unity until everyone's brought under the empire and that's how they're going to do it." And I am right in doing the things that I am doing because it is for the empire. She has been lulled into the >> Oh, yeah. She's totally >> propaganda, but in a way herself as a villain at all.
>> Yeah. And I don't sympathize with her at all. [laughter] >> No. Um, but I can see how she got to that point, >> but I still hate her. But, >> and I will say this is the spread of where his arm gets cut off. There's nothing graphic. Yeah.
>> Um, this is probably the most adult concept in the whole book other than the kind of otherness, which is that when you find out the true story and that, you know, he he she used to be his apprentice. He it turns out much like Asa, he had sympathized and refused to kill Orno in battle. And so, when she comes to testify against him, she cuts off his arm. But even still, it's very abstracted here. You don't see anybody's arm getting chopped off. So, >> which is so real. Like this reminds me of like, you know, during ch Chinese revolution times, you'd have people that would bring up younger people under them >> in an empire, right? And then they would find an instance where they're like, "Oh, actually, this is crossing a line for me morally." And those the youth, right, of of like the Chinese revolution, you'd see these other places as well. We're like, "Oh, well, you've messed up now. They they've learned these concepts. They've learned a doctrine and now like well I have to shame you publicly I have to make sure make a distance of myself you my mentor regardless of our relationship you have failed the higher power and leader of this country and it's very similar like these things they did a very good job of showing situations that very much happened in real life >> well because these like propaganda based empires and even taking it down a notch from empires just if you're like in a work place that really pits line at some point.
They're like, "Are you willing to carry out the thing we ask you to do?" And I I make a lot of Star Wars comparisons with this because I do think there's a lot of text in here that reflects kind of the Empire and Star Wars and the Jedi in the Star in Star Wars. And you know, Star Wars is an easy comparison to make of like will Anakin kill the younglings?
Like will you like kind of like will you do this awful thing that lets me know, you know, or like will you go and um you know, like take this project out of your co-workers's hands just cuz I told you to. Like will like that moment, right?
And her hen doesn't even need to be told. Hen is like, "Yeah, I'll chop off his arm." And that tells you kind of all you need to know about her in the present day, which is that she didn't have to be told to go chop off his arm as as she was there to test to provide testimony that might have led to his arm getting chopped off. And she's like, "No, no, no. I'll save you the time and just chop off his arm myself." And that's everything you need to know.
>> Yeah.
>> Completely.
>> And you know that happens. And it's it's grooming by the state. That's what happens. Yes. think about why they brought in children >> and that hap that's always happened. You you bring the youth and you indoctrinate them and that's how you get there. You are >> and it makes you reflect that the whole process and I know this is not like a surprise but it makes you reflect that the whole process of sending them off to the front is weeding out anybody who's not willing to be complicit. It doesn't matter if they fail the test or not. It matters what was in their letters. It matters if she thinks they're going to go along. It matters if they think and anybody who's going to slow down that indoctrination schedule that is self-reinforced because all these people are kept in such quarters and they're all is then washed out and sent to the front. Gee, does that sound a lot like basic training in any armed force in the real world? Like this is real world dynamics, right? you remove anybody who's going to be an impediment to the doctrination until you have such a indoctrinated group that they're accelerating each other's doctrination because you have built a mechanism to weed out the people who could slow it down and you and you realize that she's she that's what sinister purpose she's had this whole time. It has nothing to do with being a meritocracy. It has nothing to do with how you do in your tests. That's why some of them are like I didn't think I did that well. They're there because she wants them there. She has orchestrated who is passing and failing. I mean it has worked out the reason why she has the letters letters one she can check on them and two because she needs to control the narrative regardless. So if something were to happen to them or they were to die or to the front lines or whatever that she wants to do >> she can say parents like oh they died you know victoriously. It was honorably >> it was virtuous.
>> They were busy studying to write you letters. Yeah, >> they're busy h very I mean seriously this whole book like so well researched and as somebody who studied a lot of like conflict um throughout time with different countries um this is so exactly what happens and I think that's what's so great about books like these because when you see it in the real world it can feel so tough and so hard to interact with because it feels too real and too close and too scary right because you're like I have to now reckon that happening in my country or this other country. Yeah, >> but to read it in fantasy is a way that you can interact with it in a way that doesn't directly affect you, but you were able to then dissect it and think through it. I think that's what's so beautiful about movies and media and comic books to give you these ways to to interact with these just really hard truths. [snorts] Um, very well done.
>> And I also think Sarah and Nadia, who it must be said, they collaborated on this from the start. This was even though one of them had started creating the world and the visuals like in the back matter it's very clear it's not like one of them handed a script to the other one like they both were very >> collaborative in this and they're very careful to ground it in some real world culture that you know they talk about the Oru tattoos being similar to tattoos that members of their family have had in the real world but it's never completely maps if you're kind of like searching for like oh what ethnic group is this what region of the world is this like as if this is like an Arthuran legend of France and England but but for some other area of the world it it just doesn't they're very careful in not giving you any perfect analog so you can't have an easy out of being like oh this is just like this real world situation I already know which kind of keeps it in an allegorical space I think >> yeah allegor and and instill something familiar and I love that like the two of them you know found in one another very similar backgrounds were able to kind of draw upon that >> um man there's such a good line in the back here because they have this the squire in the history where they just talk about different things. There's a line in here that in in his inquire history is as much a weapon as blade. I think that could describe the entire book.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, that's exactly what it is.
Beautiful. And what's great, we get to this point, you know, Isa is has decided that she because she knows there's proof that there's been contracts and we love a contract proof things. Um, she knows there's contract proof that the general is paying the Ornne to pretend and attack the um the students.
So, we have proof that she's just gone in there to find proof of that and other things. Um, and eventually she talks to her friends, right? Because at this point it's been added that she's Oru because she took her band bandages off to save her friend, which I think is beautiful. But they found a lot of betrayal in that because they're, you know, they have to reckon with what they that their friend has lied to them.
But but reasonably so, which it takes for them to get to like, you know what, I probably wouldn't have even talked to her if I had known.
But they know that she's now. They have to recommend the fact that she lied. And they have to recommend the truth. They the things that they have learned throughout time.
And they finally like, okay, no, but she's my friend. She has proven these things. And they're presented with evidence that, oh, this this isn't what I thought it was. this group isn't what I thought it was.
>> And because a lot of times all it takes is meeting someone from that group of people.
>> Yeah.
>> That you don't know >> to feel like, oh, wait, I'm thinking this because you just need to meet people.
>> Yeah.
>> Because the people who do propaganda are very good at their jobs. I would argue some of them are not good, but it still works.
>> But Kentucky, I see it all the time.
>> Oh, yeah.
Um, but at but at the same time I appreciated that there was no scene of like where they were like we were wrong about the Orno. They're just people like they realize that they've been manipulated and they realize that Asa is not evil or bad just cuz she's Orno. But I never felt like there was like the more you know like it never it never felt like a very special scene. It's very messy.
>> It's messy and complicated. You're not completely sure, but like, okay, I know that AA is my friendly, >> right?
>> And I know that the general is betraying me.
>> Yeah.
>> Let me start with that and then figure out where we're going from there.
Exactly. And it doesn't end all hunky dory either. Like, you know, >> there's a we can I think the conflict and how it resolves is less interesting than like what happens afterwards because there's obviously a fight.
>> You know, the general still even when she's like dying and everything's on flames, she's still like A's like, "Hey, let me help you." And she's like, "If you help me, I'm still kill you."
>> Yeah.
>> Like, girl, [laughter] >> calm down. But the I think what's more interesting besides that and how we get to that point is how everything resolves afterwards >> and what what changes in everyone because Daroo is finally like, okay, I've realized that I have just stayed in the sidelines.
>> You know, I did everything I was supposed to do and it's still and I thought I thought I should do and it failed for me.
>> Yeah.
>> And I had nothing else to do. I still just at this point I just I was just still helping vampire just being here and being silent and that wasn't helping anybody and it wasn't changing anything and that's not going to change anything and I learned in you little girl that I need to do more and that I need to change that and then her friends came with her as well like okay we need to change things and find out what that means for us left on a cliffhanger there which is nice because I I think it opens it up for another book I would love to have one but if it ends if it ends there that's fine >> and I love that BM is like still not there because of course he wouldn't be.
He was the most steadfast in the empire and his his goal in life and that conveyor belt of like you know promotion to promotion and and renown that he's like I can't get off of this.
He's like you guys are all cra I'm not coming with you. This is crazy. I'm going my own way. And that makes sense.
He's not ready for that conversation. He may never be cuz his entire worldview is so shattered. Like everything he thought was true is is potentially not and he's still reckoning with that.
>> Yeah. Well, and I think so, you know, we kind of all lighted over there's a conflict. I think what's interesting about the conflict is and and I want to get off of that because I think the thing we're talking about is much more interesting is that it's not it actually is about bringing the truth to light.
Like the conflict emerges from her having proof and people needing to decide like, oh wow, like now there's this incontrovertible >> proof that like some of the things that we've maybe suspected or maybe didn't know for sure, whatever, >> have happened. And it creates a clear dividing line between the kids who feel like they were really manipulated and and that they realize that, you know, all this is indoctrination versus the kids who are like really like, no, man, this is a good place. Like, so what if she did this? It was probably, you know, the order were bad anyway. She's just kind of like they're so bought into the propaganda. The propaganda schemes weren't >> because his arm was gone and he he must it must be gone because he had Orney tattoos and that's why >> right >> so like we're not going to believe him either.
>> Even though like that I wasn't as into much like you the conflict kind of didn't matter. I did think the escalation of the conflict was so much more interesting than the typical like all the kids revolt against the teacher.
Like there was a lot more nuance to it than that because it it really has to do with like if you're bought into the propaganda then the propaganda seems like truth and you're like well that was just more truth to aid our truth.
There's nothing wrong even if it's a little underhanded which they'll they're willing to recognize. They're like yeah but it's still an aid of the thing that we all believe for the empire which is correct like So, I I wanted to make sure to hit that, but then I I do want to talk about where they end because it's so specific to each of them. So, you know, let's talk about what they all came here to do. Um, and we'll end on Asa, right? So, the boy the boy whose name the one name I never get right.
>> No, I know who's name. He's my boy.
Who's my guy?
>> Bam. Bam.
>> Bam. Um, Bam.
you start out talking about like so if the knights aren't virtuous and if the whole power structure that allowed his dad to become who he is is corrupt then is there any more use to becoming his dad which is what he was there to do because it makes without putting this all on the page if you're reading closely you realize okay and he was on the wrong side of this conflict but he winds up coming out of it kind of understanding why he was on the wrong side and and there's it's not like you know they a vendetta. They kind of part ways sort of as acquaintances if not friends.
>> Yeah. Not completely antagonistic but not ready.
>> Right. But he realizes he the choice to stay there the place is going to change.
And you you explained this well. I don't mean to restate what you said, but like he has to find his own way because if he stays there, he's one of two things is true. He's either or both things are true. He's admitting that the old structure that created his dad was corrupt. And that's really scary. And he's committing his life to a new structure that he doesn't even know what it is or if he should believe it in or not because it's being rebuilt from scratch because the old one was so corrupt. So he has to go his own way because his he realizes that all of the paths of motivation that he had previously just got redefined. So for him to decide to like stay in the college or to go back and fight with his dad any other solution for his character, it's such a perfectly made little um puzzle box of character that you realize he has to go his own way because he can't there's no way to process any of these other things.
>> Like it's not trit at all.
>> Out of the four kids, he's the one that was like this was my whole purpose for being alive the most, right? Like this is my entire purpose. the other ones it was like necessity.
>> But I just I just think there's something so interesting to that nuance of like if it was his whole purpose, why wouldn't he stay at this new reformed Knights College and still be a night?
But it's like because his purpose wasn't really to be a knight. His purpose was to access the societal power structure of his father and that is not the same.
>> Yeah. Once you realize that like oh me just doing this thing for my dad isn't what I should be doing for your parents.
A lot of us that have that moment where like oh wait I me fulfilling this for my parents isn't what I really want >> that's hard that's hard to reckon with.
>> Yeah >> everyone else has that like degree of separation >> at least a little bit.
>> Well and that's why I was so happy he got that ending too because I was like it would have been so easy to be like I'm going to stay and learn what being a good night means. But this is so much more interesting. So now we'll go to Sahar, right? So Sahar, she kind of decides that they're going to be a little trio of adventurers and decide what they decide. In a way, she's got the most to risk. Her family still has no money. She's not going to be taking a night's salary to send back to them.
They've never received a letter from her, so they don't know what happened to her. That's But you also realize that she she again thought she was going to access this power structure that was virtuous, that was going to help support her family, and she's not from somebody who's been otherred. They're like the good the good ones. Um, and she's like, "Well, like my family's no worse off than they were. They actually might be a little bit better off because they don't have my mouth to feed, so at least I could explore this world more and like understand more of what it has to offer me." Um, because it turns out just doing something that somebody tells you to do and making money for it is not so simple. Her that choice from her was the one that like blew me away. It really made me stop and think about like just the whole structure of capitalism. Like I had this whole moment of like why do we why does anybody work? Why do people go to college? Why don't we have universal basic income? Like her that she's like the most tertiary of the characters, but in a way her choice to me was the most interesting choice.
>> Oh yeah, absolutely. And it's it's neat because if this were to continue, I imagine Empire would brand them as traders and they would have to find different ways to create like an overall uprising. And I am based entirely on my favorite video game, Suie Code and Tube, which talks about a lot of these topics.
I think it's great and everybody should play it. Uh because if you like this but in a video game form, Steuie Coten is where it it is at. Regular guy gets betrayed by what he thinks is true.
Brings up the people to start an uprising and bring equality. Happens every game. It's incredible. Everyone half it's at half off right now. Um anyways, >> you don't get a percentage or anything.
You're just you're just >> If they would give me one, I'd take Well, I just I just love the game. I if I love the game, >> um who's is a lovely one? I just I love him. I love I love Hosny or however pronounce it. I'm probably butchering it, but >> I'm obsessed. I mean, he's I love him. I want I want fan art. I want >> He's He's in love with with what, you know, knights should be and what heroes should be.
And I think he's on exactly the right path to find because this this is no longer the knighthood that represents, you know, truth and justice and and you know, taking care of people because he's he's such a big heart. He is at his core someone has a big heart.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, and and he's got some, you know, naivity about naiveity about the world and everything, but that's that's part of his charm, but also that also comes with hope and comes with, you know, love and introspection. someone like that and that's exactly the kind of person you want coming with you on this kind of journey too.
>> Yeah. And he really has a moment of realization of and I think this is true for a lot of us in the real world like you get so obsessed with a certain kind of story whether it's a story of like you're going to be a successful business person, you're going to be a great parent, you're going to be, you know, a model minority, whatever the story that you're being told that if you just do these things it'll happen. And then the nuance that we've all learned as we all have gotten older, it's kind of like none of those pre-made stories work out.
It doesn't matter like, you know, how you apply yourself in school or what job you get. Like the story that you got sold by the college admissions officer or the recruitment officer at your job or the person who sold you your house in your neighborhood. Like there's there's no you never get exactly what you're sold and you have to at some point write it yourself. And I love where Hosnney wound up. And I think in a way he it it's it's the easiest of all the choices that any of the four of them make >> because he's like, "Well, all I want to do is have a good story and and contribute to a good story." And it obviously being a knight's not going to do that, but all the stories I know about >> because our boy's a bard. [laughter] >> He is a bard. And all maybe that's why I love him so much. But all of the But here's the here's the thing that's so interesting to me about that, Maddie, is none of the stories are bad just because the power structure is bad. And that's so true about the it's like when people look at American history and how bloody American history is and how many people were downtrodden as a part of American history, but it's like yeah, but you can still take a lesson >> from American history in as much as it has been mythologized and find some kind of motivation or inspiration for the present day. And like I you know I think in real life we have the tendency for every kind of story to be like okay but they actually did a horrible thing. Oh, they you know that they but they were a slave owner owner. Like yes, that is absolutely true. They were horrible. We cannot venerate them. But if you still found some little kernel of good thing about this awful womanizing rapist colonizer, um slave owner and that little kernel of good thing that they achieved is something that you want to make a better version of in the present day, that's still valid. And I really feel like Hus like accesses that. He's like, "Okay, who knows if these knights were good people? It all could be fiction. all this great weapon and stuff all could be marketing, but I still know how the story made me felt and I know I want to make other people feel.
>> Yeah. And I know what I want to be and I know what it should be >> and that's that's important.
>> That that gives me goosebumps.
>> He sees that in Isa.
>> Yeah.
>> And he's the kind of person he wants to throw, you know, his support behind.
>> Right. And you're right. He is a bard because he he's not saying he's he's like, I know I'm not he got injured in his first combat. He's a lover, not a fighter. Okay. Yeah.
>> And he's um but he sees that story in Isa and he's like I can help her be on that path. I can help her have companionship. I can help tell her story. And so like it's so much important and I think that's a message for all of us in the real world which is like it's so much more important to make your own story that's a version your version of virtuous than to try to like ape the the story that you got told about whoever your hero was.
>> Yeah. And this is another book, you know, you have to have the the person who's writing the story down. That's just as important.
>> Yeah.
>> That's not that's not what Asa is here to do. That's not what Daruk is here to do.
>> No, Asa is not a storyteller. She doesn't know how she's not actually good at the mythology part of all. She never has been.
>> No.
>> And so now we come to Asa.
>> So talk about that please.
>> No, I just, you know, I think Asa has this interesting situation here, right?
Because now you're in a situation where she has upended everything and she has an opportunity where she has you know what what do you do now as someone who did this >> you know yeah you obviously you start uprising there is a path forward as as for you as a as a change maker but you know what does it mean for your family back home because there's also that she can't go home that can be used against her >> right her family can be in trouble what does that mean where can she go lean needs this next part of her life.
And I in my mind, it's it's liberating the different people and trying to spread the truth of what's happening.
Now, I imagine that'll be used against her, but I would love to follow her on that. And if I don't get to, that's also fine because I think this book did a great job of showing what an instance of this looks like, whether we ever got any more or not. I'd love to have more. Yeah, >> I think the way it leaves is just fine.
Also, you showed me a great moment in time of people reconciling with the lies they've been told, the truths that they really do know and hold dear and knowing learning more about one another in the world and it's great.
>> How do you feel about >> if we go back to her motivation, right?
She she just wanted to become a citizen.
And it wasn't even like Sahara where her family was going to get tons of money from it. It might have given them more social class, but she just thought that like the thing you do is integrate, right? That we talked about that at the beginning.
>> And so what happens when you don't want to integrate anymore like and you have to kind of then have your own identity.
And I think that, you know, that speaks to a lot of that otherness. And again, that was like a little bit of a gut punch to me thinking back to her hearing them talk about the oru for the first time and realizing that she was passing at that point and she couldn't do anything. So now she's like in a and her parents encouraged her to pass. She's like pass until it's convenient not to pass, right? They weren't saying you you should be passing forever. Pass while it's good for you. And in a way she did.
She passed long enough that people learned the content of her character.
And then when it came time to actually judge her, they judged her in her content of her character rather than her being an oru. And so now she's like well being a citizen has no meaning and integrate me I mean because it's a not if it comes via this not not because she could have stayed at the school too if she wanted to and she's not going to go out there and fix every opinion about the orno and liberate every orno from this double taxation scheme that they're stuck in on the border but it's like she's got to but the thing that she realizes that she's just got to go and be the own the her own version >> of who she is not passing, not trying to subscribe to this night thing, not being a citizen because integration is the thing to do. She's just got to be herself.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Cuz she never set out to do any of this.
>> No.
>> But I think that's what those are your best revolutionaries and best people, right? Because there's people that are trying to live and they never set out to be anything else than this.
But this but their world society has put this on them. They're like, "All right, well, man, what else am I going to do?" You know, like >> society has a way of creating its its own like not re I guess re there's a better way to say I'm thinking like rebels like it's it's the the ruling party whether they realize or not set it it forces regular people want to live to become it's like it's like those heroes just keep failing up. They're like I didn't want this [laughter] and now I'm the poster of this. Right.
>> Yeah. I think inevitably that's kind of her what will happen. [snorts] >> It's interesting. Um I couldn't help but draw real life parallels. Um you know a couple weeks from now I'll be celebrating my going into my 10th year of being an im immigrant here in New Zealand. And when I first got here and I got for my first job I um I was being welcomed in a puffy which is a Mai ceremony that in the government they they'll do for even non Maui people to kind of welcome you in and integrate you into a new group. And as part of the pufty you are recognized and you stand up and you do your pepeha, which is kind of your introduction. And a pepeha is a very specific structure. You say, you know, before you even introduce yourself, you say this is my mountain.
This is my body of water or my river.
This is this is the boat that I came here on which has been modernized. And you can say like I flew here. I came here from America. And this is my family. These are my parents' names.
This is the name of my children. And after you give all that context about yourself, you say, and by the way, my name's Crisis, right? The expectation was I had not been in New Zealand that long. I'd never spoken any mi that you could do it in English. And I was like, well, no, I want to be I want to respect this amazing tradition that I'm being invited to do. So, I learned it phonetically in Maui, phone by phone, memorized it, and gave it. And people were like, "Wow, I can't believe you speak Maui already after being here for a little bit." I'm like, "Oh, I don't I literally don't know what a word of that meant, but it seemed like the respectful thing to do." And so, I did it. Um, and I tell that I that's just such an interesting story. But here's the reason I tell that. The current government here is a very conservative coalition of government. It's it's pretty bad. And we're in an election year right now. And so they're all trotting out the policies that they think are going to get them elected. And one of the policies they pulled out was, >> well, we want everybody who becomes a citizen here to be more integrated into New Zealand culture. And me, naive me, me as Asa, is thinking like, oh, cool.
Maybe maybe everybody's going to start doing a Pepeha when when they go to their citizenship ceremony. It would be so cool to relearn mine after all of these years. Um Oh, you're Wol, you're so great. And I don't believe I can't believe you never heard me tell that story before. Um but but you're pretty he um is pretty new to watch my channel.
I gave him my extra um valiant Harbinger book. So I got to meet him >> this week. Uh very very cool. So, but then the actual thing that the government meant was like we're going to get we're going to give people tests of like how well they know New Zealand culture and by New Zealand culture they mean like white New Zealand >> exactly right >> colonist New Zealand culture and I was like here's this beautiful idea of like wow what if every immigrant really did get get a learning pep for whatever but it's like no we're going to ask them if they understand things about like what it means to be white in New Zealand and it's like yeah >> there's this really >> and then It's kind of like because I'm going to have to take a citizenship test at some point. And so they're going to ask me these questions. If they get reelected, I'm going to get asked these questions, which I'm sure I can do because I'm great as a colonizer passing Kiwi as you know, like an American. But um it also just made me reflect like I don't want that version of integration.
I want the version of integration that um allows me to bring my own culture into a culture that respects me and that I respect. And what that look like looks like to me is saying, "Here's my mountain. Here's my river. Here's my family's name. I'm crisis to me. That's the kind of integration I'm looking for.
And that is respectful. And I just really I mean, oh, I'm like, oh, all gills by this because like I just really see that Asa engaged with it so willingly and so thinking like they're going to accept me. I'm going to be a citizen.
>> Yeah.
>> And and even the things that she brought to it originally, she's like, "This is good. It's a it's multicultural.
Everybody's going to love it." And then and now she's like actually I've got to go figure out my own thing because you can't just become a citizen by getting a piece of paper. You become a citizen by knowing what your place that you accept is in the society. And I realize that I could take that citizenship um you know exam tomorrow and become a citizen because I've been here for long enough.
But what it means to be a Kiwi to me has nothing to do with what stupid question they're going to ask me on the citizenship exam.
>> But there's a difference between integration and awareness versus eraser.
You know there's a different it's it's and that happens in this book. It's it's the like you don't mention what what your ethnic background is. You are just a citizen of the empire. Debates sugation is not >> right. Integration doesn't have to be assimilation. They're not the same thing. And it's not healthy. You're getting Your words are so much better than mine.
>> There's no growth.
There's no unity.
>> Unity does not have to in order for unity to happen doesn't mean you need to erase the best parts of you. Unity is the different parts of us, right?
>> And I believe here [laughter] >> and that's square.
I mean, it's it's it's actually so much better than I thought it would. Like, I wish I could say that it was a 4.5 out of five, that it was perfect. I think there's some pacing problems. I think the conflict felt a little trit, the the physical conflict, given how incredible all the themes were. Yeah.
>> But like, this is to me a solid seven out of 10. And it's actually so much better than what I thought I was getting, which was that it was going to be >> a slightly fantastical Milan >> that was based on some number of Middle Eastern cultures. It's it's so much more than that.
>> To me, it's a nine out of 10. But I think it just the art is so beautiful.
The the way like this book will sit with me because there's so much we could talk about about it. And I I think it they did so well in art of what as a as a history nerd and like international relations nerd I feel like I there's so much in here I'm like yes you did it you got it right and I I think because we were able to say so much to it love.
>> Oh also well I'm so glad you were here for the first time. I hope you come back.
>> Wigan Maddie is the coolest. You will I there's you will see Maddie appear on my channel at sometime in the >> and I have a real schedule right now.
Lars will be here next week.
>> What are you greeting with Lars next week? We're doing uh Birds of Prey by Gail Simmon.
>> And then after that um trying to figure out which book, but Max is gonna be on.
>> So that just happened last night. Max was like, "Oh, I wish I would do all your new year." I'm like, "Uh, everybody would like to see you on reader new talk to Maddie."
>> See, I was like, "Yeah." Um was very excited. Uh Lars, enjoy listening while cleaning up after dinner. Elegant and thoughtful as always. I feel seduced in my own kitchen. Anytime, Lars.
>> I mean, I'm so used to Lars seducing me that I It feels strange to be on the other side of that.
[laughter] >> This was so much fun.
>> We could I honestly feel like we >> I would keep talking if I go to the gym in the morning >> every day. I really feel like we could probably have an a podcast that was a daily podcast.
>> It was so nice. Today's been cra you and I both were both low energy. You know, I had I had work all day and some craziness. I had an interview that we didn't have scheduled until yesterday and I was like, "Oh man, this is gonna be a lot." I even skipped the gym this morning because I was like, "Oh god, I didn't put a lash yet." So, I was like, "I'm hanging out with crisis today." And I know that we can just chill and I think that's so nice and it felt good. I feel we had a lot to talk about in this book and it was so fun to talk with you about it and it's great. I just feel good. I feel energized.
>> I do too. I was I had such an high anxiety day and uh and we were talking about this before I got on the air and so I feel really good about I hope that anybody who's stayed through all this is inspired to read this book. It's fantastic. If you've got kids in your life, I think it's great for them. I definitely think 12 and up completely appropriate. No guidance needed. I would say 8 to 12 maybe if they have like a little bit of awareness of like colonization and kind of otherness. um younger than that only if you're the kind of person who would sit down and like read it read this kind of stuff with >> your kids. But I would say in terms of like complexity, I would put this of just like reading complexity, I would put this in a similar spot to like the prince in the dress maker. Like it's just it's very easy to read.
>> I love Prince in the Dress Maker.
>> Yeah, this will be on my shelf like directly next to Prince in the Dress Maker. Um >> so yeah, that's what I would have to say about that. And uh and I suspect I'll be back cuz I've got a list of things that I want to read >> any you know you're welcome anytime now I know you're more frequent you and I you and I are similar where you know we both fall off and then we see each other we're like nothing's ever changed >> right if anything I just love you more than the last time [laughter] I saw you right >> and that's how I feel like I'll get off this call and be like Elliot and he's like did you love hanging out with Chris like yes [laughter] all the time that's what happens Um, oh yeah. Have you ever read Feeding Ghost, by the way? God, >> I haven't.
>> Oh my god, I would do another show. God, it's so good. James is James asked me for like months like, "Are you defeating ghost?" I finally did. I was like, "James, James, you were so right. You're so right."
>> I don't I don't think I' I'd have to look on my spreadsheet, but it doesn't sound familiar.
>> Oh, you love it. But also, >> so I got that Lisa Str book, um the the um Garden of Spheres. I found it was the place that Omar went to in the UK, Gosh Comics. They sent it to New Zealand. I um because I contacted the publisher and it was one of the books I was talk context for everybody watching. Um Lisa St, who I also does um Rotworld and The Thing with the Frogs. It's in the other room or I would show it to you. Um and I really wanted to do that with Maddie, but I couldn't figure out how I could physically get it. And I wrote it to the publisher and the publisher is like, "We just our warehouse just can't send to New Zealand, but gosh comics probably could." and Omar was like probably physically in the shop while they were back in the order. I should have just sent one home with you with Omar to give to you. Um but now I have it physically.
So maybe maybe if I read it and I love it, maybe we'll come back and do that one.
>> And um I read a bunch of Galaxy today because I was interviewing >> uh Jad Zia and now I'm dying to talk about that. So maybe everyone wants to talk to [laughter] me about Galaxy and Dream that new uh Justice League Dream Girls. I really want to talk [laughter] about it so bad.
>> Well, I will definitely have to catch up on it. I'm just now starting to catch up on 2025 or 2026.
>> Oh, I'm so behind on all books. Like, >> yeah.
>> I know. People like, "Oh, do it."
They're like, "We should do a comic book room tour." And I'm like, "Nothing's changed.
>> There's nothing new." I'm sure >> people ask me like, "Why don't you do like a what you've been reading?" I'm like, "Nothing. I've been reading nothing. [laughter] Like, I've just been doing polls data."
>> Yeah. I just I I'm reading for here. And it's just it's it's cyclical, right? I'm either reading like because I'm reading pros, right? At the same time, I'm also playing games. I'm watching shows because I'm deep in the vampire. I have things happening.
>> Yeah, there's stuff happening. It's just not reading com. So, I read I did my >> things are >> I'm building muscle. That's the main thing that's happening right now.
>> So, I don't know what's happening. Um Price, thank you for being here.
>> It's my pleasure.
>> Is I mean, everyone knows you, but you can tell them where to find you. Well, the thing is I have a great love for indie comics and things like this. So, I was happy to come on and and talk about like a truly independent book. It's from Quilt Tree Books. But if you've ever been my website, crushing crisis.com, it has guides to so much of the Marvel and DC universe. And the guides are about how to step into reading the characters because it's pedantic about the absolute order that they go in and how you could collect that in trades or just go onto one of these digital platforms and read from there. So, if you ever just have felt like X-Men is overwhelming, Spider-Man is overwhelming. Wonder Woman is overwhelming. I can't even tell the series apart. My whole perspective is like, I'll help you tell the series apart. Then you can pick where you want to enter and you'll know exactly what the name of the issue is and where to start, what book to order and all that.
And then, of course, I have a channel on YouTube, Crushing Crisis, where I do a lot of comic book data is my trend this year. So, I've looked at um M we did a Marvel and DC fantasy draft. Uh we I looked at my most FOMOed books that I wish that I could have bought and didn't. And next week I'm going to be doing an update on all the gaps and all the epic collections because Omar and Curtis uh tomorrow will be announcing another quarter worth of epic collections for Marvel.
>> Let's go. I love it. I wouldn't be able to do my Titans collecting without you.
Truly. And without you, I wouldn't have have been able to read more Titans.
>> Well, now you have Dom, who I've learned like I don't I don't even have to try anymore because nobody's going to know Titans better than Dom of X. stom of X is like the master of Titans, >> which >> is so funny. I love that.
>> All right, >> it's him and then the random people at conventions. Yeah, thank you so much.
I'll be here next week with Lars uh talking about uh Gail on boards Birds of Prey. And I'm also hosting um the Q&A next Saturday while Omar's out. So, and I'm also interview I think with Chriser next week. So, I'm going to be around.
>> Oh, >> because Chris is my friend. So, I was like, "Yeah, >> let me know if you need any buddies for the Q&A."
>> Yeah, come on. Literally, anytime I can hang out with you, it's just open invitation anytime. If you're like, "Hey, I want to be on the show." Yeah.
Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Thank you guys.
Thank you, Crisis. And we'll see you all next time. Bye.
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