1979: The Lives of Britain's Servants | Man Alive: One of the Family | BBC Archive

[00:00:00]I'd love the job, but if if if it ever came that somebody said to me, would you like to choose between being a butler and being a silver steward? I I don't know. I just don't know what I I don't think I could decide. Somebody would have to come along and say, right, you are now going to be the butler and that's it. I think that's the only way I they'd ever get me out of here really.

[00:00:21]I mean, there's no one comes into gamekeeper for the money because, you know, there's not a lot of money in game. I think it's having the freedom and the outdoor life where where you're able to, you know, go out for a walk at 5:00 in the morning and dig your garden in the afternoon and go way back out at 10:00 at night.

[00:00:47]I would have loved to have [music] had a family and children of my own instead of looking after somebody else's, but uh I became [music] so devoted to my family.

[00:00:59]This one in particular, having been with them so long, that [music] I didn't yearn for children of my own anymore.

[00:01:08][music] In the last 100 years, some 2,000 of our stately homes have been demolished and with them a whole regiment of servants.

[00:01:30]But there's one employer in Britain who can still afford literally an army of retainers. At Blair Castle, the last private army in Europe, parades for the Duke of Athel. Some are his personal friends. Most work on his estate.

[00:01:46][music] [music] >> [music] [music] >> Heat.

[00:02:19]Heat. [music] [music] >> [music] [music] [music] >> And my father said, "You'll have to come home," he said, "and you'll go to then and I was sent up to the factor and I said well I don't think they could give me enough money.

[00:03:03]So he said well he said it was good enough for your father and your grandfather. He said I don't think why it shouldn't be good enough for you.

[00:03:11]So that closed the book and here I am.

[00:03:15]>> The Duke of BLU in Queensbury has 11 other titles and owns more land than anyone else in Britain.

[00:03:21]>> I'm sure we do. I don't think he'll he'll uh >> Alec Bagshaw's job is to preserve Barton in Northamptonshire, one of the Duke's five homes and to care for the antiques with which it is crammed, including gifts given to the Duke's family 300 years ago by Louis the 14th of France.

[00:03:38]father came along and he worked for a number of years for them and he did quite a lot of work by uh putting in the paneling in the dining room and also a staircase what we call the white staircase and uh I then came along and I did another staircase. I put the lime staircase up. his father, grandfather and greatgrandfather were all working on this estate in the same sort of capacity. And this is a very good example of how our families do grow up together. I think the longest job was the uh lime stairs because I could not carry on with that at all times every day and it took 3 years to do.

[00:04:25]All the moldings on the handrails and cappings were all molded by hand. But this lime is such beautiful stuff to use. It's kind and it's just the same as the old one was. No paint on it.

[00:04:44]>> A house like this, as you can imagine, is a sort of nature trail of all kinds of insect life. We have death watch beetle and vaner beetle and woodworm and moth and all the other things which can destroy a house in no time at all. And he's been the man on the spot.

[00:05:02]>> Nature is no respector of masterpieces.

[00:05:05]Even this priceless French desk has been attacked by woodworm and water from a burst pipe severely damaged this 300-year-old table. His first aid treatment to begin with really saved that table. We then took it to the Victorian Elbert Museum and they had it for two or three years looking at it and getting experts wondering how to fix it.

[00:05:27]Eventually produced estimates of many thousands of pounds for restoring it.

[00:05:33]So, um, Bagaw said, "Well, I think I can have a go at it. Let's get it back." So, we brought it back to Bon.

[00:05:40]>> I said, "It's a big risk, of course." He said, "Well, you take half the risk.

[00:05:45]I'll take the other half." And that was a result. So, we started on it. In >> the space of very few weeks, they fitted the whole thing together again. So, if anything, it looks slightly better than it did before the flood. A superb piece of craftsmanship.

[00:05:59]>> And that's one more piece saved.

[00:06:02]Well, one or two other things that you can see around a house that have been rescued. Uh, it's it's nice to know that you had something to do with them.

[00:06:12]>> 11 generations of the Dukes of Devincshire have lived at Chhatzsworth in Darbisha, an Aladdin's cave packed with treasures, including a famous collection of Hugenau and Regency silver, causeted by silversteard Iran Fraser Martin, whose Scottish childhood was spent in less elegant surroundings.

[00:06:31]Well, I was I was a foster child on a cough close to a very very small village called um Rothy May. There was a castle in Rothy May and I'd never seen it, but I I'd always heard of it and I thought, well, one day I'm going to work in a castle. I thought that quite a lot. And by the time I was old enough to um go around to it and see it, I'm afraid they knocked it down. So, um that sort of put an end to it.

[00:06:54]>> And it wasn't until he was 34 that Ian fulfilled that ambition. I came to Chadzsworth um and I worked on the um um the cleaning side and I did that for about two years. One day somebody said I believe the silver stew is going to retire. So I I I went straight to the office and said well how about it? Can I do it please? And uh from then on I got the job.

[00:07:21]>> It takes 18 months to clean the 1,000 pieces of silver in the vaults. as never ending a task as painting the fourth bridge.

[00:07:30]>> When the last silver stew retired, um he stayed on for about a couple of months after I came in and he taught me what to do, showed me the ropes and I I picked it up from there.

[00:07:44]I started life as a joiner and we've had a a transport business. My wife and I had a transport business and I could probably drive Lori and get about twice, three times what I get now. Um, if we said around about £50 I get, but then of course I I have a lot of things free that other people have to pay for and uh really it evens itself out. I mean I get I get a beautiful flat in a in a in a um in the stable block for instance. Um that's really something to me.

[00:08:14]>> At Bargain 2 the wages aren't excessive but there are perks to the job.

[00:08:20]>> But I know when I started working here I was getting 30 shillings a week.

[00:08:24]and 32 33 and I didn't mind. I enjoyed it. We carried on. We lived. We lived in a country manner, you know, when want to hunt your own garden, your own vegetables, your own chickens. And we used to keep two pigs.

[00:08:49]I get down here about 8:00.

[00:08:53]cranks very easily.

[00:08:54]>> Normally there's a few messages, one from his grace or one from the house manager and you've got it all laid out on top of what you've thought about the night before. What you're going to do the next day, electrical, we do that.

[00:09:10]Why the clocks up? Oh, I don't think that's a dull moment.

[00:09:21]Surrender Monle B Chief Justice of both benches and a domino 156.

[00:09:40][bell] [music] >> [music] >> He is a man who doesn't just confine himself to his job. Uh he's taught himself all kinds of new trades and crafts that were way beyond his own calling and he's really a carpenter by trade. But he's absorbed more knowledge about looking after armory, ancient guns and pistols and swords than almost anybody even in the British Museum, the Tower of London or the Wallace collection. And uh this is the reason why these are very lethal.

[00:10:37]They're very true as well.

[00:10:40]>> One of my ancestors master the ordinance in about 1730 and amassed a huge collection of probably the finest collection of pistols and swords of the 18th century. And uh these are now rehoused by Backshaw in a most superb armory which he has designed and fitted out the showcases entirely himself. And every single piece in the armory is in perfect working order.

[00:11:07]>> An uncle of his graces, an admiral, Admiral Sir Jeffrey Hawkins.

[00:11:13]>> He only come up home the other day. He said he said, "Would you like my telescope?"

[00:11:18]I said, "Yes, my word I would." an Admiral telescope been handing down from the Hawkins of the brook that's going way back a bit.

[00:11:29]He said, well, he said you you might as well have it.

[00:11:32]But I shan have it. I shall bring it in the armory.

[00:11:40]>> Do you own any silver yourself?

[00:11:42]>> A tow strap that's got a leg missing.

[00:11:44]That's about all.

[00:11:45]>> No.

[00:11:46]>> Would you like to own any of the silver here?

[00:11:48]>> Oh, I'd love to. Yes. Well, I mean, I feel as if I do now, but um I don't think uh I don't think the boss would like that. [laughter] One of the nicest things um about this job is is is um the people you meet, actors, um cabinet ministers. Sometimes they come down and and and they want to see the silver collection.

[00:12:15]>> Do you use a toothbrush? Um, not as hard as a toothbrush, but um, I I use paint brushes. Art is pretty.

[00:12:23]>> When you have a big dinner and got a lot of very respectable guests, are you ever afraid that they might go off any of the spoons or forks?

[00:12:32]>> Well, I don't I don't think they would do that. The guest >> they would not even >> Do you count them afterwards?

[00:12:38]>> Oh, yes, I just to make sure.

[00:12:45]I work for in another state of home hardwick um under the National Trust but um I'm afraid it's not it's not like working for a private family at all.

[00:12:55]>> What ways are different?

[00:12:58]>> It's it's it's like one big family here.

[00:13:00]Everybody I I don't mean just the the family at the top. I mean everybody's involved in it and they take an interest in it. The last place I had at it was a sort of just a museum.

[00:13:14]I won't play the big one. That's the one we had last time.

[00:13:18]>> Lunch for 22 or even more is a common event in Chhatzsworth.

[00:13:21]>> New assistant chef Jean Pierre was recruited from a five-star French restaurant.

[00:13:28]>> I want to play for Selano.

[00:13:30]>> For what?

[00:13:31]>> I want play two big plays.

[00:13:36]That.

[00:13:36]>> Yes.

[00:13:37]>> Is good.

[00:13:39]>> Yes. All right. And and that one. How many?

[00:13:42]>> Two.

[00:13:42]>> Two.

[00:13:43]>> Yes.

[00:13:43]>> Okay.

[00:13:44]>> All right.

[00:13:45]>> It's fine.

[00:13:46]>> For legume fight.

[00:13:51]>> What's that?

[00:13:52]>> Uh, potatoes.

[00:13:54]>> Oh.

[00:13:55]>> Uh, pl.

[00:14:00]>> Yes.

[00:14:01]>> On special occasions, the devincent eat off gold, but most of the time They make do with silver.

[00:14:07]>> Yes, please.

[00:14:09]>> Is you have one for boil for salad, please? Is >> this?

[00:14:16]>> Well, I'll I'll um >> Yes, I think I know you.

[00:14:20]>> When I worked on the on on on the uh public side, um I first came here, I I I was uh called Mr. Fraser Martin by practically everybody. And then as soon as I came into the sort of family side of it, I I I I was called the end. Of course, it made me feel as if I was accepted as part of the family and and it was very nice to feel that.

[00:14:43]>> For nearly 300 years, Flor's castle in the Scottish border country has been the home of the Roxers. The 10th Duke succeeded to the title when he was only 19. He inherited the 60,000 acre estate as well as the 130 families who lived there, many of whom had served his family long before he was born. The head gamekeeper is a relative newcomer.

[00:15:07]>> But I've actually worked for the the Duke of Roxbury for I think it's about 22 years, fully 22 years.

[00:15:20]He never dreamt that one day he'd occupy the head gamekeeper cottage.

[00:15:24]>> I came as a dyker to this state as a dry stone dyker but always I was keen on the shooting. No doubt about that. I was always keen on shooting. My weekends was spent you know the coin pigeons or if ever I got the chance it was with a gun.

[00:15:41]After seven years of building walls, or dyes as the Scots call them, Jimmy Ner became one of the 13 gamekeepers on the Roxboro estates until one day the ninth Duke summoned him to the castle.

[00:15:54]>> And they more or less explained that they had asked me to be head keeper.

[00:15:59]>> Cheers. Cheers.

[00:16:01]>> That night that I was told I still couldn't believe it. When I went in and told my wife, she couldn't believe it.

[00:16:08]and just said to ourselves, well, is this actually happening?

[00:16:11]>> So, it's the men who the boys, >> the average gamekeeper gets between 50 and 60 pounds >> a week.

[00:16:18]>> A week, you get the free house and you get your suit of clothes and in some cases, I mean, there would be a vehicle supplied in some cases and uh you get waterproof clothing. Most estates do anyway. We do. which supply waterproof clothing and you get the wool for your stockings. That's a job for your wife to sit and knit them.

[00:16:47]The old juke I mean he was a lawn to himself. I mean he had you know he had seen it all and he knew it all and everyone respected him. I mean, I'm not saying I don't respect the new, you know, but I don't think he's had the experience of his father yet. And I'm sure that will come. There's no doubt about that. [music] They know that you're very young and that you probably don't know as much about it as an older person or a more experienced person was and they make allowances for that. Uh and equally in dealing with people who are older with you who had a lot of experience, >> um you've got to respect what they say because they're the experts.

[00:17:36]>> Really, I think it'll be an ideal wood, you know. I think it would be >> in a good spot. Yeah, if we can have a look at that first and then we'll go on and have a look at the other drive we wanted to talk about.

[00:17:47]>> Yes.

[00:17:51]>> Jimmy Nan has known the Duke as a toddler, a school boy, a soldier and now as a Cambridge undergraduate and his boss.

[00:18:00]>> That was more or less the instructions that we called him guy until he got the commission in the army which would then do. And once he got the commission in the army was my lord.

[00:18:10]And then once of course his father died, he came his grace.

[00:18:13]>> And what did he call you when he was a small boy?

[00:18:16]>> Nan. I've always been called Nan.

[00:18:18]>> This is where we are here somewhere.

[00:18:20]>> Yeah, >> that's the one behind us.

[00:18:21]>> That would be the one.

[00:18:22]>> Yeah, it's this field here. We want to think about possibly putting a a wood in down from here.

[00:18:26]>> Yeah, >> it should be running down from somewhere up there.

[00:18:29]>> The bins of these trees.

[00:18:31]>> Yeah, somewhere up the line of those trees.

[00:18:33]>> Yeah.

[00:18:33]>> Now, how far up we going to have to take it?

[00:18:34]>> Oh, I would take it at least 150 yards, >> 200 y up there. Maybe about what 100 wide.

[00:18:41]>> Yeah, about 100 wide. That's that's a sort of >> I think the one thing I learned from my father >> was that in order to be a good landlord, >> uh you've got to know as much if not more about the various duties that that your employees um do. I mean, you've got to know as much or more than they do.

[00:19:02]And at this stage, that's something that I'm obviously learning still because I don't I mean, I'm young. I don't know that much. And so that'll hopefully only come with with age and experience.

[00:19:13]>> Is it ever difficult for you to take orders from a man who is young enough to be yourself?

[00:19:18]>> No, never. Never. No, never. I mean, to me, he is the Duke of Roxbr. To me, that that's my employer. And uh anyone I respect, I'll take orders from.

[00:19:30]>> Do you like his job?

[00:19:33]>> No, definitely not. Definitely not. I wouldn't like his job at all. I'm a countryman in well I like to think I'm a countryman in many respects. I think I'd love to be a gamekeeper because it g gives you the freedom of the countryside. That's what I'd love. I mean I've I've hopefully got that now but if I had to lose the position I'm in now I'd love to be a gamekeeper.

[00:20:08]A game keeper works actually all year for maybe two or three days you know shooting. I mean he works every day Saturday and Sunday and it all shows on maybe one or two maybe three days shooting. So I mean that's the time that the the gamekeeper everyone gets anxious. Every good gamekeeper gets a wee bit anxious about his day when it's coming along. And I think that's the simple reason because I mean you're completely at the mercy of the weather.

[00:20:38]You know, you could get a strong wind or you could get bad day, things could go wrong. And I mean that's really when you hope when a gamekeeper's having his day that he has a good decent day because it does mean a lot to him. It means a lot to everyone.

[00:20:55]There is considerable criticism about blood sports. How do you react to that?

[00:21:00]>> I mean, everyone thinks I mean I was when I'm saying everyone I think maybe about 90% of especially the town's people think that a gamekeeper goes about with a gun and just shoots everything that moves. No, I think that there's nothing further from the truth to have a a twisted beak feeasant in the pen.

[00:21:19]Now, there plenty of folk would say, "Well, what chance has that bird got of life once it's in the wilds?" Maybe not a lot. I mean, it comes along and the only way it can feed is out of one of these dishes. Last possible thing I would do is dream of hitting it in the head.

[00:21:36]I think that a gamekeeper, I mean, it preserves a lot of life, but what it does, he puts down predators. He does it for his own benefit for the game birds, but he's also doing it for the benefit of all the small birds.

[00:21:51]>> But the job is about killing.

[00:21:53]>> Yes, I suppose it is about killing.

[00:21:55]We've got to be you've got to be that way. But I think and killing, I mean, I think you've got to, you know, use your own discretion on this type of thing.

[00:22:07]>> I mean, when I say killing, there's lots of things preserved now. And I'm quite sure the most of the gamekeepers, there might be an odd case, but the most of the gamekeepers will, you know, would stick to this.

[00:22:19]>> Do you have to cope with many poachers?

[00:22:23]>> Ah, well, not a lot. Not a lot of poachers. You know, you get the odd chap that has a shot at a rabbit and things like this, but I think to be very, very honest, I mean, I've done that myself and they say it takes a poacher to catch a poacher. So I mean I'm well versed in that point. [laughter] >> Between them these retainers have notched up nearly 600 years of service.

[00:22:48]James Redell now 68 began work at Floors when he was only 13.

[00:22:54]>> If I wasn't a gardener I don't know what I'd like to be. I've never thought of anything else. It's just been my life and whatever I started off as a boy as a gardener and I've thought about it all the time and still do. There nothing else I'd like to do.

[00:23:08]>> [music] >> I worked here under three generations of the Roxbury family. The present Duke and the late Duke and the present Duke's grandfather.

[00:23:24][music] The garden was in a bit of a mess after the war years. had no staff or anything to look after it and been growing nothing but vegetables and it was rather a rough state. Her bishious borders and all that was just in a real mess.

[00:23:43]So I just had to start and clean things up and start a fresh.

[00:23:50][bell] The bell in the garden is for starting and stopping the men for working. It's one of the old customs that used to be there and it's been there for I suppose since ever since the garden was built bring the men out in the morning and we still use I like to keep up the old traditions >> at floors the garden is traditionally the responsibility of the duchess 26year-old Jane is a daughter of the late Duke of Westminster will the young duchess preserve timehonored customs introduce new practices >> yes we have two here two good ones that go either side of the fireplace.

[00:24:28]>> They look magnificent, these ones.

[00:24:29]What's What's this one?

[00:24:30]>> This is bal.

[00:24:31]>> Yes.

[00:24:32]>> And this is snow.

[00:24:33]>> They're very similar.

[00:24:34]>> Very similar. This is a bigger flower thing. Her grace wouldn't come up the garden and pick any flower or anything or fruit without asking permission >> or if it happened that she did do so, they tell me right away as soon as possible afterwards because they know quite well that I would miss it. you know, you know just what everything is when you're walking around day in and day out.

[00:25:00]>> I'd ra strawberry patch if I didn't need anything for the house. But if I do need flowers for the house or for a weekend or just for the kitchen, I usually have to ask um little first. It's his garden.

[00:25:13]>> And do you think he sees it as his garden?

[00:25:15]>> Oh, very much so. I think yes. Um he's a professional. He's in charge of all the presentation of the plants and I'm borrowing them.

[00:25:30]>> There's another one.

[00:25:31]>> My 21st celebrations, we had uh various parties um for the tenants and the employees. And considering it was in the middle of winter, it was in the end of December, he did he did the most fantastic arrangement of flyers. He was >> um and he brought everything on especially for the right week and had it all come right. I mean one we had um a party on Tuesday then something on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. He virtually had something that would come out on Tuesday, something else was going to come out on Thursday. I mean he timed it specifically so that he knew what was going to come out for which day and he well he just made it everything perfect for us.

[00:26:11]>> Nearly finished. A prize for Carnation that I'm most proud of is the Duchess of Roxbury Carnation, which we raised here ourselves.

[00:26:21]Took it to London National Carnation Show and won the Daily Mail Gold Cup four times.

[00:26:30]It's all in the Duke of Roxberry's name because all these shows are supposed to be amateurs. I said me being a professional, I wouldn't be allowed to enter. So, I'm the professional growing the flowers for the Duke of Roxbury.

[00:26:45]>> Does that often happen? I mean, do a lot of um amateurs have professional gardeners who are actually growing the flowers for them?

[00:26:54]>> There's quite a lot of amateurs professional gardeners growing for them.

[00:27:00]Well, all the big estates and that are just the same. They're all amateurs. The owners of the place are amateurs with a professional gardener. Wouldn't you like the credit?

[00:27:11]>> Oh, I think the credit I get enough credit from the grown of them and seeing the end production what it achieves.

[00:27:21]>> It's a servant's job to look after other people's possessions. Alec Bagshaw and his wife Annie have devoted their lives to caring for the antique furniture and other treasures at Bon. Have they never yearned to own something valuable themselves?

[00:27:36]>> No, I don't think so. In our state of salvation, we couldn't do that because we wouldn't have money to do it with.

[00:27:42]And after all, it look ridiculous, wouldn't it, for a one of the Duke's um former housekeepers drinking out of a very nice piece of porcelain probably uh serve and the immediate.

[00:28:00]But >> Mrs. Bshaw, do you think it would look ridiculous if you drank out of a beautiful little bit of porcelain?

[00:28:05]>> No, I wouldn't. No, she loved to have a she loved to have one piece.

[00:28:09]>> Ah, [laughter] this is different. If it was >> I would >> if it was Gibb. We was talking about the buying of a thing.

[00:28:16]>> Oh. Oh.

[00:28:17]>> And and one couldn't afford to buy such a thing.

[00:28:20]>> And I don't think we would look quite correct behind one of those.

[00:28:25]>> I mean, could you see me coming in with uh one of the cabarets of China that went into uh Marantinette?

[00:28:35]Oh, I should love that. I really would.

[00:28:38]I should love to have my breakfast on the tray like that. I would.

[00:28:43]>> Oh, dear.

[00:28:45]>> Never shall though. I just have to wash it and uh admire it. That's all.

[00:28:52]>> And wish it was yours. You do. You You don't coveret it. Surely.

[00:28:55]>> Well, I do. I wish it was mine.

[00:28:57]>> Oh, you shouldn't do that.

[00:29:00]>> This is where we beg to differ.

[00:29:02]Not many regret the passing of the world of upstairs downstairs where everyone knew and kept their place when going into service was one of the few jobs open to a respectable girl and the conditions were often as hard as the hours were long.

[00:29:18][music] I had to clean the brass knocker and the letter box and I used to feel very ashamed because I wasn't tall enough to reach the knocker. So I used to turn the wooden box upside down and quickly do the knocker first so that no one saw me standing on this box.

[00:29:44]It was quite a lovely house really lovely place. But I was given a room where the rats used to have a midnight party. Did the rats frighten you? It was terrified. Yes. Great big fat rats running over um you know the rafters.

[00:30:00]The ceiling wasn't closed in. Really really terrifying.

[00:30:05]So one day I bought myself a penny bar of chocolate cream and I took myself for a long walk to Cardiff.

[00:30:16]And when it came to cleaning prams, it was really hard work. Very different to nowadays. The handle had to be brassoed every day. The body work had to be leathered and all the spokes on the wheels had to be clean. And they were inspected by nanny always before she took them out.

[00:30:40][music] Although Hoovers and washing machines have taken some of the drudgery out of household work, servants have become more and more difficult to find.

[00:30:51]>> They probably don't like to be called servant, but when you think about it, we're all servants really. We're all somebody's servant. And and why not be a servant in a place like this? This is fine for me. I love it.

[00:31:05]And I don't mind being called a servant at all.

[00:31:08]>> I know. I was proud to be a servant. I mean, I was proud to work for the Bclus.

[00:31:14]They was lovely people to work for. I really love them.

[00:31:19]>> I've got a good boss.

[00:31:22]>> I knew him from a boy and >> I think he knows it that he's been put in. I shouldn't let him down.

[00:31:30]>> I know.

[00:31:30]>> I know he wouldn't be. So, here we are.

[00:31:33]We got a happy medium between us.

[00:31:35]>> I mean, everyone has far more enthusiasm when when they're actually in residence.

[00:31:40]There's no doubt of that. I mean, you feel different. You know, it's quite common to meet someone and say, "The Duke at home." You know, you feel different if they're at home. There's no doubt about that. After all, I mean, to be in touch with the Duke is is the main thing. I think I'm sure for everyone as I grow up, uh, the relationship must have changed. Well, I was just a son or the boy running around. Um, and now I'm the boss as it were. Then the relationship must have changed in many ways. The same time I'm still very close to most or a lot of them. At least I feel I am. They may not. I'm sure everyone treats him as, you know, as head of the family.

[00:32:24]Let's put it this way. And I think the Duke tries to to run the state as a family. I'm sure he does. While I might be head of that family, um, what we're trying to do is run it for the benefit of everybody because if the estate was to go under and something I mean were to fail and the whole thing collapsed, a lot of people would lose their livelihoods. Now my position is to look after their livelihood and if I was to my position was to go well then those people would be redundant.

[00:33:01]>> All the employees on the whole estate are just a a community on their own.

[00:33:07]They all work together. We all help one another. reach department. There's various departments, forest department, fishing department, uh grooms, and there's joiners, plumbers, masons, farm.

[00:33:19]It all help one another. And that's I think that's the way it should be on an estate.

[00:33:24]>> The estate almost ran itself um a country estate in the old days and now you've got to work much harder to to achieve it. And it is. It's a full-time job. It's like a big business and it's got to be run like a big business. And I suppose that the if one looks into the future, the point is it possibly has to become more commercial.

[00:33:44]>> Some country just got in.

[00:33:46]>> Yes, they came from the office this morning.

[00:33:48]>> Ironically, it's changed.

[00:33:50]>> Adapting to 20th century tourism. It's conserving a way of life rooted in the past, ensuring jobs for Woodby, Hudson's, Mrs. Bridges, and Rosies.

[00:34:03]It's the gate money paid by the quarter of a million people who visit Chhatzsworth every year that pays the staff's wages.

[00:34:11]>> When you um look after one of the finest silver collections in the world and and and and work for one of the nicest families in the world, where do you go?

[00:34:20]I couldn't sort of, you know, get anywhere better. It's as if I I I give a service, but I get looked after in return. And and and I think that's very nice. I I like that idea.

[00:34:36]>> Ian, who grew up as a foster child, has not only joined the 300 strong community at Chadzsworth, but now also has a family of his own. His wife, son, and the father he met for the first time last year.

[00:34:52]my father, he he when I met him, I was I was most surprised because um turned out that he'd sort of done all the same work in in his life that I' I've done in mine and and he'd been in service as well. I I I decided then that it it must be something that gets in the blood.

[00:35:11]>> Do you see yourself spending the rest of your days here at Chadzsworth?

[00:35:14]>> I'd like to. Oh, yes. If if if they'll have me, I' I'd love to do that. My wife's very happy here. Yes. Why not?

[00:35:22]>> Not everyone serves an employer who has plenty of spare rooms and cottages in which to house old retainers.

[00:35:29]>> Yellow 268. Yellow 268.

[00:35:33]>> It's the annual garden party of the Harrison Homes in London. A charity founded in the last century to provide accommodation for retired nannies, cooks, parliaments, and housekeepers.

[00:35:44]>> Now, Mr. Tandy, you have the choice. We have Sherry. We have two lots of cherry, I think. And we have the dry one.

[00:35:51]>> The dry one, which would be the dry.

[00:35:53]Medium dry.

[00:35:55]>> Medium dry.

[00:35:58]>> That's lovely. That's lovely.

[00:36:00]>> I'm 89.

[00:36:02]>> How long were you a nanny?

[00:36:05]>> Well, the last family I was with um >> more than 50 years.

[00:36:09]>> Yes, more than that. Until they married, until the other two married, the boy and girl met. Then I left. I thought it was time to go.

[00:36:18]>> Miss Joyce, will you draw one for us?

[00:36:20]Shut your eyes.

[00:36:22]>> Are you hear of other nannies going to the cinemas, going out, visiting the museums? I didn't want to do that. My whole life right from a time it was built around first my dolls and then babies and children.

[00:36:40]I do regret it now. I feel that I've been down on a children's level for so long and I have found it very very hard to come up to the adult level.

[00:36:54]I don't know.

[00:36:54]>> I like >> you had to share. Yes. All right.

[00:36:57]>> I think you have to be very patient and also I think that um you know keep your word never go back on your word and if you make a promise try and keep it because children are very they're very sort of faithful little things really.

[00:37:16]>> I had been with that family for 15 years. Well, I had an interview another mommy in London and I decided I'd go to her for her first baby and daddy came to me and he said, "How are you going home, Nanny?" And I said, "I'm going by train, sir. Then I can cry all the way. I'll have a compartment to myself." So he said, "Oh, no. I'm taking you in the car and we're going and we're going to cry together." and we did just that. We cried all the way.

[00:37:53]>> The nanny, who's never had to face retirement, to break with a family she's come to regard as her own, is lucky indeed. It's nearly 30 years since Grace Browning became Nanny Fitz Alan Howard, the family name of the Duke and Duchess of Norfolk, whose five children she's brought up.

[00:38:10]>> I think in a way perhaps it's good to be a little emotional. If you're very hard, then you haven't got the same feelings for the children. and you can't understand them as well.

[00:38:22]And I like to feel that I understand them.

[00:38:25]>> She was very very fussy about table manners, pleases and thank yous and all those sort of things. And our father used to come in often um when we were having lunch and pick and l used to get very cross with him because she said it encouraged us to pick.

[00:38:40]>> She'd be quite difficult. Yes. I mean, we very much had to do what she'd say, but there'd always be lots of laughs as well.

[00:38:48]I mean, she was never No, you could never really call her strictly.

[00:38:52]>> Well, one has to be strict up to a point, I suppose, but you've got to have a lot of um understanding, patience, a lot of patience and love for them. If you haven't got that, then you might just as well not be in any.

[00:39:13]>> You think you can perhaps love children too much?

[00:39:17]Well, maybe one does get very involved and very uh I mean when they're happy, I'm happy. And if any of them are are unhappy, needless to say, I am too. And long for, you know, everything to be back to normal again.

[00:39:35]>> And she's just always there. I mean, she's incredible. I mean, you can if you're in a terrible state one day, you can call up every sister and brother and mother and father you've got, they're always out. But you can always call nanny and she's always there.

[00:39:49]>> One took them down for about half an hour after tea and that was all they really saw of their parents practically, you know, in 24 hours. As they got older, they did much more with parents.

[00:40:02]But one still sort of was, how should I put it, the buffer in between, you know, if things went wrong, they automatically would come and tell me. If any of us are ill or unhappy, she gets very easily affected by it. And we always turn to her if we're unhappy or if something's gone wrong.

[00:40:21]>> Mom was expected to take them around to see all the staff. They expected you to go around and show them off when they were dressed in the morning, you know, and say good morning to them all, which was great fun.

[00:40:34]>> Oh, I mean, we had to be the best behaved children, and often we weren't.

[00:40:38]>> No, often we weren't. [laughter] Um, I mean then she used to get really quite strict. You know, she'd be very competitive and, you know, we'd have to look the best and act the best. We often didn't.

[00:40:51][music] Grace Browning is now grandand to Lady Tessa's three daughters who bring back old memories.

[00:40:57]>> They were always dressed alike, the three girls until they were quite, you know, old, 12, 11, 10, maybe even older. They were dressed alike. And even Edward when he came along was dressed in matching colors.

[00:41:16][music] >> There was a lot to do. One started with a 6:00 feed in the morning and the last feed at night was at 10:00 p.m. And if you were very unfortunate and had a noisy baby, you could be up at 2:00 a.m.

[00:41:38]as well. One had half a day a week off, which often didn't start until about 3:00 in the afternoon.

[00:41:46]>> And you were usually back for 10:00 feed in the evening.

[00:41:50]>> What about boyfriends?

[00:41:52][snorts] Was there anywhere to meet them or was there any type for them? I >> don't think they came into my life very much early on anyway. I mean, I didn't really bother, but I have, needless to say, had very special friends, but nobody, I don't think really that I ever wanted to marry and get away from the family to be with.

[00:42:16]>> Can't ever remember Nanny having a boyfriend. Wasn't something that really one really thought about or that one sort of noticed, you know, whether she had a boyfriend or not, was it really?

[00:42:28]>> No, it never entered our house.

[00:42:29]>> You don't think it ever entered into our house?

[00:42:30]>> I mean, it's the first time I've really thought about it [laughter] now. No, it was never anyone.

[00:42:37]You >> We probably would have disapproved terribly if there had been. Do you know what I mean? Cuz nanny was ours and that was it. And we wouldn't have wanted anyone to have taken her away.

[00:42:48]>> One's main interest in life was the children. You didn't worry about going out or doing anything very much. Your life was given to the children.

[00:43:02]You didn't mind not having um a lot of time off. In fact, quite often I think I might have been able to have it and just didn't want to.

[00:43:12]>> When I had my first child, Willa, I thought I'd be able to do it all myself.

[00:43:18]And in I was just in cloud cuckoo land.

[00:43:21]I I couldn't begin to cope with her at all. And so I used to have to ring up Nanny in the middle of the night and say, "Help, Nanny, come around. She's crying. I can't stop her." Um, and I don't think I realized when I had my first baby, cuz I was very young when I had my first baby. I don't think I realized quite how much work is involved in looking after a small baby.

[00:43:44]She asked me whether I would take over and um spent a few sleepless nights over that.

[00:43:52]But I've really felt that I'd be much better sort of going to her when she needed me, but not actually becoming part and parcel of the family.

[00:44:10]Although her children are past the age when they need the services of a nanny as such. At 68, Grace Browning's life still revolves around them.

[00:44:20]James Redell is also 3 years past the usual retiring age.

[00:44:25]>> When I get up in the morning, I have a look out the window and see what the weather's like and just admire the borders as they're coming into full flower. Well, every day you see a difference and then I come out and have a walk around and just look at the garden in general and plan the work for the day and for the next week and think ahead and just see how things are growing and see something here is advanced greatly and another thing needs attention and just a general look around and very pleasant to walk. It is.

[00:45:02]>> What I am um delighted about though is that we've got several people on the estate now who are past retiring age, but they don't wish to retire at the moment. They feel they're capable of doing their job. Um Riddle is one of them. Um, and I delighted that they should continue because I still got a lot to learn from them and we both have >> and they will continue to to work as long as they and I feel feel able.

[00:45:31]>> I don't think I would like to retire. I think as long as I'm healthy and able to get about, I'll still enjoy the garden.

[00:45:39]It's not like a a job in a factory or something else or it's day in and day out the same thing. And I suppose they like to retire there. But in here, the variation you get from day to day is just good. I think when I do retire, I suppose the thing I'll do most will be a little gardener or something and buys other people.

[00:46:03]>> And so you'd always be a gardener.

[00:46:05]>> I'd always be a gardener.

[00:46:07]>> Like James Redell, Alec Bagshaw has no son.

[00:46:11]>> All the things in there are ancestral pieces.

[00:46:15]And if nobody knows how to use them, what's the use of keeping them? I very much like it to stay here because the pieces that are used in there can be used in the house.

[00:46:28]Again, the same moldings and uh they wouldn't have to go to any trouble to make them. But again, he wants people to know how to use them.

[00:46:37]>> Are you training a successor because somebody must take over eventually.

[00:46:40]>> Well, we have we have a young man come.

[00:46:42]He started, funnily enough, this week >> because Ran here is a a man with two stopcocks in.

[00:46:49]>> Well, he will be told everything what's expected of him to do. He may falter at a few jobs, but um if he's careful and he listens to me, he'll probably fit in all right.

[00:47:07]>> Both Jimmy Nan's sons hope to be gamekeepers. Perhaps the beginning of another family tradition.

[00:47:20]>> I would like the my sons do what to do with the wish. Both of them are quite keen to be gamekeepers and I think they'll make good gamekeepers.

[00:47:33][laughter] >> I know what's coming. I can smell it.

[00:47:37]It's so lovely. Lovely car.

[00:47:40]>> I don't know who's listening.

[00:47:41]>> It's probably mine. Is it?

[00:47:44]>> Stick on you.

[00:47:45]>> I've enjoyed being in Annie. I wouldn't have been without any of my children. I must say >> call them my children. They're almost as much mine, I suppose.

[00:47:54]>> Lovely.

[00:47:55]>> Thank you so much.

[00:47:57]>> Happy birthday.

[00:47:58]>> Happy birthday.

[00:48:01]I think we probably wouldn't be such a close family as we are today because I think Nanny's very much kept us all together.

[00:48:09]Um, and there's quite an age gap between me and my youngest brother, but we are amazingly close. And I think that really is because of Nani actually because she's >> she's kept us together a lot.

[00:48:21]>> I will happy birthday to you.

[00:48:27]Happy birthday to Barrett. How many happy birthday?

[00:48:32]>> It makes one's day, especially if any of them are >> extra demonstrative now. You know, they're older. It's like a terrific pat on the back, I suppose. You know, >> I love all my children, I must say.

[00:48:46]>> I'll always call them my children.

[00:48:49][laughter] >> Well, I'm getting old.

[00:48:53]You know, you see her walking down the King's Road with with the punk rockers behind her. I think she accepts life now and life then, you know, as two of the same things. It must have changed quite a lot. And she's awfully sweet about the nannies these days. She sort of says, you know, things quite aren't quite what they used to be, but in a very nice way.

[00:49:13]You know, she's not decrying modern nannies and modern children.

[00:49:20]They suddenly said to me, "Would I like flat?"

[00:49:23]And he just whisked around. Well, I didn't know what to think cuz it was really Came's bombshell. But I hadn't even thought of having my own.

[00:49:38]This flat actually was given me as not a retiring present but for me to be in and I have a spare room. So if any of the family are going through and want a bed and say this is one way they've repaid my services to them in the past.

[00:49:58]>> The older she gets the more of a responsibility she is to us. And you know, when she's much older and won't be able to live by herself, we'll c she could certainly have a home in any of our houses, we'll she's certainly a big responsibility, but some somebody that one wants as a responsibility because she's given so much of her life to us that I feel she needs something back in return. Really?

[00:50:27]>> Well, I'd like to be remembered as a as one of the craftsmen of bed. put it that way. My grandfather was remembered by he tried to do his duty. I think that's on his gravestone.

[00:50:40]And earlier than that, there was Levi, the old man of all, the great-grandfather.

[00:50:45]He still left his trees there that he put tree guards around.

[00:50:50]And I I think so long as these trees remain, he he will be remembered. And so long as [music] the staircases are there, I will be remembered.

[00:51:01]I don't think we're to be forgotten.

[00:51:05]You see the the work that one has done, it's there and nobody can take that away. It's it's a more or less a monument.

[00:51:23][music] >> [music] >> Heat. Heat.

[00:51:45][music] >> [music]