Tucker Debates Kevin O’Leary in Heated Exchange

Added: 2026-05-15

[00:00:00]Let me ask though about why taxpayers should have to pay for this. If it's a private business and your tenants are some of the richest companies in the world, why would taxpayers be required as they now are to subsidize this?

[00:00:13]>> They don't they don't necessarily have to do that. They just won't win any contracts. It's it's a it's a competition. Um >> but why are you getting tax breaks is my question.

[00:00:23]>> No, everybody. But you go back and you say, "What incentives can you give us to invest $15 billion in the first 1.5 gigs?" That's what it takes. I have to go raise $15 billion.

[00:00:35]That's just >> But anyone who starts a business, why should taxpayers have to pony up for that?

[00:00:40]>> They don't. But of course they do. If you if you I mean, if you're getting a tax break and they're not, they're making up the difference. There's a state budget.

[00:00:47]>> That's no problem. That's no problem. I can build it in Texas. I can build it in Jacksonville, Mississippi. But but why if it's such a good business would you be asking taxpayers to help pay for it without giving them equity in the company? Are you giving taxpayers shares?

[00:01:01]>> No, the investors get the shares. But here's why they would do it.

[00:01:04]>> But why would the taxpayers have to if you want to start a business? Why why am I as a taxpayer forced to pay for your business? I don't I don't get it.

[00:01:13]>> Well, let's forget about data centers.

[00:01:15]Let's go any manufacturing. Let's say you're going to build um an aluminum sheet manufacturing facility. You go to the government there and say, "Look, this is a huge capex expect, you know, uh huge capex expenditure. I'm going to hire 2,000 people. I'm going to build a community center. I'm going to pay a lot of tax on the profits in your state when I sell the aluminum. And I'm going to hire all these people. They will also pay tax. And we will build a school because our workers need a need a school." and and and and and what can you give me to incentivize me versus the the state right beside you which is willing to give me an incentive package?

[00:01:54]>> No, no, I understand I understand that you're you're gaming a system in place.

[00:01:58]You didn't come up with this, but I'm just trying to understand.

[00:02:02]>> So, the trade typically is jobs. Okay.

[00:02:05]But these projects don't actually >> Well, no, no, it's also jobs and taxes because you're going to >> and taxes.

[00:02:10]>> Yeah.

[00:02:10]>> But but then you're getting a tax break.

[00:02:13]So that doesn't really make any sense >> only up front. You're Tucker. Welcome to America, buddy. This is how it's gone on for 200 years.

[00:02:21]>> Well, I don't know. Lots of bad things go on for a while. I'm just But I think at some point it's worth assessing like why are we doing this? So on the job that you're doing it because there's a competition.

[00:02:32]>> Well, I run I run a couple businesses and we're not getting any tax breaks. I think they're every bit as virtuous as data centers, but I'm not availing myself of that and no one's offered and I wouldn't take it anyway because it's not the job of taxpayers to subsidize a private business.

[00:02:46]>> That's a fair it's a fair comment, but my job is to create a data center, create 2,000 jobs for long-term and 10,000 manufacturing at the beginning or construction. And I'm obviously looking at at multiple sites and this won't be the last one I build. I have >> May I may I ask 2,000 jobs? Okay. So, relative to the size the physical size of the project which as you noted is multiple times the size of Manhattan and the power draw at peak this data center your projections will consume about as much energy as New York City does. But New York City provides almost 5 million jobs and this project by your own description would provide about 2,000 jobs.

[00:03:34]I I I don't see the >> definitely that you definitely got that calculation wrong. By building a data center that trains AI that provides productivity to the entire nation, we create millions of jobs, highpaying jobs.

[00:03:48]>> AI is going to create jobs.

[00:03:51]>> I thought it was gonna eliminate jobs.

[00:03:53]net.

[00:03:53]>> Just think about the new technologies we don't even know yet that are going to be built off AI. Everybody thinks when television came, everybody would lose their job in radio. That was complete BS. And the same thing is going to happen here. Everybody's hysteria about losing jobs making hamburgers or flipping them, being replaced by a robot. That's probably true. But all kinds of new technology will become available over time, including in medical science and biology and all kinds of things where the models can be used. I'm extremely optimistic. What I'm doing is creating a whole new opportunity for my children.

[00:04:30]>> What kind of job?

[00:04:32]>> Well, I mean, again, I'm some of this of course is unknowable and I want to be as fair as I can be cuz I'm grateful that you're willing to talk about it so openly. But you just said this will create mill AI will create millions of new jobs. You're >> part of the basis of AI. You can't have AI without data centers at least right now. So what are those millions of jobs?

[00:04:53]Because we can go through the list >> that the creators, the people who actually are making AI right now, developing it. We can go through the list of jobs they say it's going to eliminate, which would be like lawyers and financial planners and like the basis of upper middle class America.

[00:05:08]That's going away. They've said this.

[00:05:10]What will it be replaced by?

[00:05:12]>> It'll be replaced by new science opportunities, new exploration into space, new manufacturing for robotics, for defense as well. Wars in the future probably aren't going to be fought with people getting shot in the flesh. It'll be one set of robots against another. I think the drone technology will advance, the manufacturing of surveillance, all that stuff against our enemies, which notably is basically China. So if you think about how you know you debate the data center I think it's fair to do that what you're doing but I would be very concerned if I were living in Taiwan that one day my electricity just goes out and I get invaded by basically robotics and high precision ordinance and that's what China wants and they want to get there first. Now, if we don't get there first, if we don't develop something better than their AI there and our ability to be predictive on where these conflicts are going to happen, I think we'll be in a bad place in 20 years. And so, >> okay, but I think it's very revealing that I asked you about jobs in the United States and you went immediately to defending Taiwan in the >> Well, we we manufacture the equipment here, Tucker. That's where it's made.

[00:06:19]>> But I'm Okay. Well, actually, a lot of this is made in China, as as I know, you know. So, um >> that's my whole point. I don't want to do that anymore. I want to start making it here. I want to do advanced robotics.

[00:06:30]>> I totally agree. But the promise of AI and robotics is that the robots will make >> the products of the future. So how exactly does that result in American jobs? More specifically, what are those?

[00:06:44]What are you talking about?

[00:06:47]>> I don't buy that. I just don't agree with you because it's never >> Well, I'm not saying I don't want that to happen. Trust me, I'm really worried about it. Almost panicked. But I'm trying to feel better. Okay, then please make me feel better. Where are these millions of new jobs? What specifically are you talking about?

[00:07:04]>> Well, you know, every time technology advances, it creates new opportunities that were not for seen prior because you don't know the direction of new tech.

[00:07:13]You know, think about if you and I, cuz we were actually around in the late 80s contemplating what new jobs would be created >> by the internet. And look at what's happened. It's created millions of jobs and advanced all kinds of technologies and changed the way we live to the better. And I would say to you, the same angst we had, the same narrative that was going on in 1992 about how the internet is going to wipe out the economy and it's a bad thing and it's dangerous. Of course, people loathe change. That's the nature of how >> do you think that the United States is a happier country than it was in 1992?

[00:07:56]>> What divine happy? What does that mean?

[00:07:59]>> I don't know. We How about the suicide rate or the addiction rate or the life expectancy?

[00:08:04]Those are all there's there's lots of social issues and there always has been. I would remind you though, >> but they've gotten worse at exa at exactly the period in history that the internet was formed and then seemed to infuse every part of our lives. So if you were worried about the effect of the internet in 1992 on America, looking back from the vantage of 2026, you could say, "Yeah, I had good reason to be worried." Couldn't you? For a lot of women, Mother's Day is a joyful day.

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