Why Do We Need a Church?, Pt. 3

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[00:00:23]Welcome once again to Father Spitzer's Universe at the intersection of faith and reason where we meet each week right here at the mothership where it all started thanks to Mother Angelica. I'm Doug Keck. Email your questions to us at [email protected].

[00:00:38]It's a third of our program so help us out. Check out all of Father Spitzer's websites, themagistercenter.com, purposefuluniverse.com, spitzerspace.org and of course even more important the Magis AI app now available for downloading has been for your phone use on your home computer and of course the Holy Father just put out a big encyclical about that and we'll talk more about that later in the show.

[00:01:02]Father Spitzer's Universe is always available on our EWTN YouTube channel and the EWTN Plus platform ever growing.

[00:01:09]Currently on EWTN Plus is Fork in the Road. Now this is really cute. Three globe-trotting siblings explore cultures around the world and one of life's greatest teachers, food. Of course, they journey with locals and deal in one city, one dish, one fork at a time while shattering stereotypes about home-school kids. There are some stereotypes proving that education and childhood can take many forms. See it for free anytime on EWTN Plus and I'm pretty sure their mom used to be a Power Ranger so you want me want to check that out as well. And our topic today, Pope Leo's encyclical Magnificat Humanitatis and book of the month for May. I got to get this one mentioned right. When God asked for an undivided heart by the late great and a good friend Father Andrew Apostoly. Check that out. He was such a wonderful man. And speaking of wonderful people, we have our own Father Spitzer, our own expert on AI, joining us in the flesh and to kick everything off with a prayer, if you would, Father.

[00:02:11]>> Absolutely. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

[00:02:15]Amen.

[00:02:16]Heavenly Father, we give you thanks for your many blessings to us. The blessing especially of our ministries and our ability to serve in them. We ask you now to send your Holy Spirit down upon us to inspire, guide, and protect us so that everything we do and say will be brought to fruition in your will for the good of your people, your church, and your kingdom. Asking all of these things through Jesus, our Lord. Amen.

[00:02:42]And Mary, seat of wisdom, pray for us.

[00:02:44]>> us.

[00:02:45]>> In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

[00:02:49]>> Amen. Good. Good to be back with you, Father. Hope everything is okay. And uh >> Everything is terrific.

[00:02:55]>> Good. Good. Always good to hear that.

[00:02:57]So, uh and and of course, people may not know, but obviously Christ Cathedral was in the footprint of the news there for a while, right?

[00:03:05]>> Yes. Yes, it was.

[00:03:07]Right here in Garden Grove, we had 5.5 miles from us that big incident with the the tank that was overheating with the polymerizing liquid in it, and looks like a crack actually formed in the tank. Um and I'm glad to say that that was what happened because the alternative was an explosion that would have put a fairly toxic cloud out for a good at least 5 miles, but we were just about a half a mile from the looked like the >> Yeah, from ground zero, so to speak, right?

[00:03:43]>> Yeah.

[00:03:43]>> Right. Right.

[00:03:44]>> Yeah, so it was pretty good a little scare, but you know, the crack formed, it got bigger, the substance, the acrylic that was polymerizing actually um did start polymerizing. The crack allowed some of the pressure and the heat to escape. So, uh now the basically it's turning into a sludge that'll become, you know, a completely solidified polymerized agent.

[00:04:08]So, um it's the whole thing's over essentially.

[00:04:12]>> Well, how close how close did you be come to be in a position where they were going to evacuate you guys?

[00:04:18]>> Well, they weren't because uh there's luckily only 7,000 gallons of the acrylic, you know, of the of the chemicals in there that were were polymerizing. So, so essentially we don't think it would have reached us. I mean, if they had 43,000 gallons, >> Okay.

[00:04:35]>> that would have been really problematic for the whole of Orange County.

[00:04:39]>> Okay.

[00:04:40]>> That would have been one big boom.

[00:04:42]>> Okay.

[00:04:42]>> And like, for example, uh for all the surrounding >> Mhm.

[00:04:47]>> area for like 5 mi around, that explosion could have really been breaking windows or actually, >> Right.

[00:04:53]>> you know, collapsing structures that were not concrete and steel >> Right.

[00:04:57]>> that were earthquake proof. So, essentially that that was very lucky.

[00:05:01]7,000 gallons is a lot much better than 43,000.

[00:05:04]>> Yes.

[00:05:04]>> So, um but nevertheless, it it's now a sludge and a sludge is sitting >> Okay, great. Well, I'm happy to Well, we were all praying for you there, Father. All praying for you and Joe.

[00:05:14]>> We needed it.

[00:05:15]>> Yeah, you were a gentleman.

[00:05:17]>> Oh, no.

[00:05:19]We We We were very thankful ourselves.

[00:05:21]So, >> Okay.

[00:05:22]>> it was just God worked it out very nicely.

[00:05:25]>> Right. And speaking of something that worked out very nicely, it's taken a long time, but we were able to reporting on our online news service that EWTN has expanded our reach in northern Europe with a new office in Sweden.

[00:05:38]Uh so, if you're planning any trips, you may want to stop by.

[00:05:42]We open We just announced that we're going to have an office in Stockholm. And uh it'll extend our Swedish services to reach Scandinavia and northern European audiences. The move comes amid growth of the Catholic Church in Sweden. The nation which historically restricted religious freedom now has 130,000 registered Catholics.

[00:06:03]Uh they'll be producing some programming. Uh and as Michael's quoted here, "EWTN's mission has always been to bring truth, beauty of the Catholic faith wherever we can." And of course uh that there's a couple of great people, Evo uh uh Bender who is one of our great people over in Eastern Europe, and Ulf uh Silverling Verling. I always got Ulf's name wrong, but he's director of EWTN Sweden. He's been working on that for years. And again, it's amazing how uh you know, if you stick to it, you know, God has his own timing.

[00:06:35]>> Yep.

[00:06:36]>> You know, he really has his own timing.

[00:06:39]>> But stick to it and this is as important as it comes. Your fortitude.

[00:06:43]>> He seamlessly yeah.

[00:06:44]Yeah. Remember that word, fortitude? We learned it when we had to had to in the old days for confirmation, you know.

[00:06:50]>> Yeah, that's the >> That was one of the ones we were supposed to remember, fortitude. But yeah, it does seem to be that our Lord does he he looks for, you know, that are you with me? Are you going to Do you really believe, I guess, you know?

[00:07:05]>> That's right. Keep slugging through the barriers.

[00:07:07]>> ahead, yeah.

[00:07:08]Yeah. Here's a Here's a story that's uh just coming up about something that's going to come about in the future.

[00:07:16]Cardinal Fernandez shares more details on upcoming transmission of faith document. I guess he was uh quoted in a Spanish publication.

[00:07:25]Uh there's a document called transmission of the faith. Says it will examine the reasons for the failure to transmit the faith between generations, finding ways to make preaching the gospel more attractive, consider questions regarding the liturgy, etc. Uh the Register reported last week, and this is about a week or so ago, that the DDF was preparing a major new document gloving on drawing on global consultations of Episcopal conferences, experts, and researchers on how the faith is handed on today. After bishops had raised concern the process had broken down in many places. So, it goes on to say, "And as an educator, what you what what if they had called you? Maybe they did, but if they didn't, they probably should have. What would you have told them?"

[00:08:09]About why it broke down.

[00:08:10]>> I started it off with uh three huge areas. First of all, we were late in the game on addressing the the faith and science, faith and reason area in a contemporary way.

[00:08:21]Uh, we allowed, basically, um the new atheists, Dawkins, etc., to come out and you know, not just beat us to the punch, but by 10 years. I mean, they own the websites, they own the social media for so long and I mean, now we're in it.

[00:08:40]But, you know, we we gave them a 10-year head start and they took it and they seized it. And of course, the evidence was in our favor. You know, that that's the whole thing. It's like, you know, um there were a lot of people like myself who were kind of screaming, "We we've got to get into this game." You know, and and uh respond with the evidence that's out there. Nobody was using the near-death experience terminal lucidity data. Nobody was using the recent cosmological data. Certainly since 2018 with Stephen Hawking, you know, turning around and all the people that started joining up on the theistic side of the physics equation. And then, of course, all the stuff that's going on, the contemporary investigation of miracles.

[00:09:20]I I mean, it just goes on and on. The Shroud of Turin, you know, the debunking of the 1988 carbon dating and now all the new theoretical evidence for the particle radiation theory. All this stuff is coming out and we were beat. We had the evidence and they had the means. And I mean, now we're catching up and I mean, I I'd like to think we're a part of that solution. The Magis Center's part of the solution and and uh you know, we certainly are trying it on every level.

[00:09:48]High school, middle school curricula, confirmation curricula, Magis AI, very important thing because it's so scalable, unbelievably scalable. Now, we're doing our social media efforts and now other people are joining in with the you know, the shroud, you know, is really getting a huge push from a lot of people besides ourselves and the usual uh folks like Julio Fanti, Liberato Riccardi and so forth. And of course, these miraculous stuff. I mean, my gosh, there are people now taking the the miraculous host and going to the next level. This Matteo La Vergna and his crew are just doing a great job. I mean, I feel like, you know, you know, we're we're joined now by a whole lot of people um that are really you know, super competent that are doing it. The shroud group, as I said, has really expanded, I think, with Robert Rucker and Tom McEvoy and so many others. You know, Paolo Di Lazzaro and and these very, very fine people are out there doing these good things. So, I'm So, that's one thing I would have just said, but we got we were not prepared.

[00:10:55]We were beaten to the punch. The second thing is is we had the emotional health data on our side about morality, our moral teaching. We can show that that the more you follow the moral teaching of Jesus, you know, the less depression and less anxiety and less suicides and less suicidal ideation, less malaise, less substance abuse you're going to have like by huge numbers, doubling and tripling. We got the data and of course, we allowed basically a secular media to come out and beat us to the punch on the mainstream stuff. our it's like our educational people, you know, there are some dioceses that are like super there.

[00:11:39]They get it. And we've got some people in our Catholic education community that are still scratching their heads as to whether we ought to have a science-based apologetic or not. It's like, "Whoa, you guys are like 20 years behind." I don't want to say that, obviously, but it's so true. We we better, you know, take up this thing inside our middle schools and high schools, and certainly in our college university centers, etc., has to just keep coming out. Now we've got, you know, so many good, you know, fantastically good scientists who are on our side. As I said, we need to get them exposed. You know, we try to do that on our own social media, etc., and in our Modesto AI, but it you're climbing an uphill battle because, you know, I mean, we we actually did some polling once, and one person who was in a a position, you know, to know what the students were thinking. We're just doing a polling to say, "Well, do do do your students over there have any, you know, questions or doubts about faith and science? Do they think science might be disproving God?" They said, "Oh, no, nothing like that happening here."

[00:12:47]"Okay. Well, how about the question of suffering? Do you do you do you get anybody thinking, you know, why would an all-loving God allow suffering?" "No, no, I I don't think there's anything like that happening here." So, of course, this guy goes, "Well, wow, you guys are so way ahead of the game. Like, the Pew survey is indicating like I mean, 50% of your students should be feeling this kind of anxiety, but you have nothing? No indications?" "No, no, nothing like that." So, it's like either this person was lying between her teeth or she's like the most uninformed person in the whole world. I don't know.

[00:13:21]But I mean, it when you're dealing with this kind of like >> I think the answer was she really had nothing. That's really what the problem was.

[00:13:29]>> [laughter] >> Maybe so, but so >> Nothing. There is nothing. What you really found was her students weren't thinking about any of it at all.

[00:13:39]>> Oh, yeah. Well, you've got this Bishop Fernandes there in in um what you call Ohio.

[00:13:48]I think he's in Columbus Ohio.

[00:13:50]>> Columbus, Ohio. Yeah.

[00:13:51]>> Yeah, he's like zoom. He gets it, you know. And then there's many other bishops who certainly get it and are you know full on implementing these things and but there's just a lot of people who are just slow on the draw. They don't want to change.

[00:14:09]>> Well, they like those banners. They like those string paintings. They like those posters we used to make.

[00:14:15]Paper mache and those posters we used to make that really had an impact on our spiritual life.

[00:14:21]>> That's right.

[00:14:22]>> Yes, those things they should be hanging them in the Vatican Museum uh Yeah, I mean don't you it it seems odd that sometimes that seems so obvious what the issues are and what you need to do, but they seem to be constantly alluding these people who supposedly are the experts and I think some of it is because they don't want to admit that that's actually what needs to get done cuz it doesn't fit their profile or what they saw as being the answer to realizing that we're all really generally just good people and Christians and if we're left to just come by our we'll be okay.

[00:15:09]>> Well, I you know as Jesus once said, you know, if we get just get the people in the sacred disciplines to to you know, be as responsive as the ones in the secular disciplines who are working for mere money instead of eternal salvation. You know, if we if we could just get them turned on with the same degree of motivation, it'd be great. But, you know, we're we're facing the same problem today. I mean, I I do agree the bishops have to be cautious. You can't be going around, you know, just plugging AI, you know, and so forth. You got to be super cautious about how to do things and and so forth. I I agree you know, caution is needed, but to be hyper you know, cautious you know, almost to the point of you know, in the inactivity. I'm not saying the bishops are doing this, but I'm saying in a lot of apostolic endeavors there is so much caution, it it's turned into reverse inertia. In other words, we're not making [clears throat] pro- we're going backwards. We're so cautious. And that kind of thing I think, you know, if you're being overly cautious, the secular folks are going to beat you to the punch, and they have beat us to the punch. We as I said, we're catching up now. We're responding and now we're getting our stuff out there now, but it takes a lot of individual initiative sometimes to discover it. And that the schools that are doing it are getting great response. It's really working in those schools. But, I I just it drives me crazy that there's tons of other schools that that are not doing it. But, isn't that you know, like >> Part of that the the the nature of any bureaucracy, whether it's inside the church or outside the church, which is that at the end of the day in most bureaucracies, the safest thing is to do nothing.

[00:16:57]>> Yeah, well, in order to protect yourself. But, if you're protecting the souls of the people over which you're supposedly over which you supposedly have custody, that's a whole different matter. You know, we we ought to be exerting some effort.

[00:17:11]>> But, you have to believe that their souls are actually at risk.

[00:17:15]>> Well, yeah. That's the But, they are.

[00:17:18]and I mean it's the secular surveys, not the Bob Spitzer survey that that's saying, you know, they are at risk. You know, Pew is saying it, CARA is saying it, you know, we've got a Gallup saying it. I mean, what what do we want, you know, to to prove the point? It's, you know, it it's there and we know the reasons. Why don't we just you know, take a look at this stuff and instead of pooh-poohing everything that's new, um you know, to try and get this the the word out >> I'd say pride and control.

[00:17:51]>> Well, there's Yes. Yeah, maybe so. Maybe so. I hope that's not the case because losing a lot of kids cuz you're too darn proud to say I don't want to admit anything's good that wasn't invented here. That's a pretty lousy motive for, you know, >> Right.

[00:18:08]>> You know, >> Well, speaking of >> ignoring >> Speaking of pride, I I wanted to, you know, usually I don't notice these, but you know, I was hoping this year that finally Franciscan would honor somebody who was really worthy of being honored.

[00:18:23]>> [laughter] >> But apparently they they ran out of people and and they decided to pluck you out. So, I wanted to congratulate you belatedly to this fine award for getting an honorary doctorate in catechesis and evangelization from Franciscan University of Steubenville. There's a picture of the people pressing forward to meet you. Uh large crowd there.

[00:18:47]>> [laughter] >> Well, thank you.

[00:18:50]>> Oh, there he is. Oh, looking quite professorial there. Very professorial.

[00:18:55]What, you used to teach your classes?

[00:18:56]Did you get dressed up like that? You know, like a Oxford Don or something?

[00:19:01]>> [laughter] >> Yeah, we we did at the graduation cuz you you wear your doctoral gown and you have a doctoral hood that corresponds to it. So, we we did did do that every graduation.

[00:19:12]But outside of graduation or maybe at honor ceremonies, yes. And that's about it. But it's always an academic honor ceremony.

[00:19:20]>> Yeah, you'd fit right in in Oxford there. I saw that. Very Very impressive, Father. Very impressive.

[00:19:26]>> Stop.

[00:19:28]>> Now we're going to get to a couple of questions for you.

[00:19:31]Uh dear Father Spitzer, people [clears throat] have written in. I read where the city of Copenhagen, Denmark passed a non-binding resolution. I don't know non-binding limiting seniors in nursing homes to 80 g of beef per week for climate reasons. This is because they have been the greatest climate sinners throughout their lives. There was a time when the elderly were respected and treated well, but that seems to have disappeared. What do you think Why do you think that is? And this is from Matt.

[00:19:59]>> Matt, I think it's nuts. I think a finally an ideology has superseded what is needed to keep elderly people in good health, namely protein. So, I mean, protein is good for the brain, fat is good for the brain, protein is good for musc- muscles and and skeletal development. And of course, in the elderly, it's super needed, right? I mean, you need all of that present. Why they would make a move like that to protect an ideology and select, you know, you know, a vulnerable group of people to to be as it were the guinea pigs for this crazy kind of solution, all I can say is thank God it's non-binding. I've never I don't know what a non-binding resolution is. Isn't that a contradiction in terms? Yeah, it just means some guy says it then it then has no ability to be enforced is usually what it means, but >> God.

[00:20:59]>> Yeah.

[00:20:59]>> Because it's it's it's idiotic in in the worst way. And of course, ideology trumps medicine once again, uh of course producing a that's crazy.

[00:21:10]>> Well, especially since even the UN within the last week or so has acknowledged that a lot of the climate change hysteria even they're willing to say is overrought.

[00:21:24]And though there may be a heating situation going on, the results of it are not as cataclysmic as they've been made out to be over the last 20 years.

[00:21:36]>> No non-ideologically professed climatologist right believes believed in the cataclysmic scenario. I don't know of one. I sure know a lot of people in that area, especially obviously in the geophysics part of it and the atmospheric part of it. Um and I can just tell you nobody really believed in the cataclysmic scenario. It was definitely ideologically driven. It was driven to get budgets up from the federal government to support a whole bunch of data and to support basically a rather large propaganda effort. Now, is there something to what they're saying about carbon footprint? Yes, there is. However, you know, this is one thing that's going on amidst many different causes. When you get a scenario where you have, for example, 60 or 70 significant variables that can affect various outcomes, it is very hard to make you know, anything like a 100% certainty prediction, right? So, you know, for from that point of view, you know, I would have to say, you know, people who are predicting the inevitability of a cataclysm are just like I don't think that's going to happen.

[00:22:53]I just don't see any reason for it in in in any historical data. Yes, we do have very high carbon uh in our atmosphere.

[00:23:02]It is concerning. No question about that. Is it, you know, apocalyptic? No, it is not. Sunspots can affect things.

[00:23:11]Radiation from the sun can affect things. All kinds of solar winds can affect things. Volcanoes can affect things. One volcano, you know, can can produce in a couple of days all the the carbon build-up in the atmosphere for a decade, you know, from you know, aerosol sprays and things of that nature. I mean, by by comparison to China and India, the United States is is a nothingburger in terms of, you know, carbon production. Well, Sweden, too. I mean, for all intents and purposes, you know, you know, the whole idea of cataclysm, uh I don't think many, you know, non-ideologically driven um climatologists really ever believed that scenario at all, but it was sure brought out there and then a lot of money got dealt, you know, you know, procured for the uh from the federal government uh to go into these programs and even into the driving the ideology.

[00:24:09]>> Exactly. All the president's men. Follow the money.

[00:24:12]>> Follow the I do remember that.

[00:24:14]>> I remember I learned how to say "Follow the money." And it's with all of these things. I mean, I was saw a story the other day kind of hearkened back to our discussions about the whole trans thing.

[00:24:25]And again, another lawsuit with somebody getting a big uh award. And yeah, suddenly yes, so suddenly, as we said, once the money starts changing hands and the lawyers get involved and the insurance companies start saying, "Hey, hey, we're not going to be covering this anymore."

[00:24:44]>> Yeah, I know, that's right. That's right. And I think that's already uh in the offing. Certainly, it already happened in Great Britain, Sweden, Finland, Netherlands, France, Norway, etc. All these forerunners that had uh you know, you know, professed that transgenderism was the solution to the anxiety of gender dysphoria, um you know, all of a sudden backed right out of everything and said, "Whoa, we're looking at the risk data compared to the benefits data, and we're no longer funding this from our federal governments." So, there's a variety of different people like the fact that you have six or seven independent federal governments going, "We're not doing this anymore." This is this is a crazy thing. And of course, then you get the Cass report coming out of Great Britain where the she the the Surgeon General, you know, proclaims uh you know, to the world as it were, um you know, that uh that this is a terrible solution and there really wasn't an increased suicide risk or at least the evidence of an increased of an increased suicide risk was completely wrong.

[00:25:50]>> As you pointed out, now that it's been out more, more and more people are willing to state >> Yeah.

[00:25:55]>> the truth.

[00:25:56]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:25:56]>> And will come out and say those kind of things, which they wouldn't before because they would be blessed.

[00:26:02]>> Oh, yeah. No, in the United States, we saw all of their surveys. We saw that 30 years uh survey of uh suicides after 10 years after um sexual reassignment surgery in Sweden. We saw the 50-year survey in the Netherlands that basically said there was a three-times increase in mortality rates once you begin gender-affirming care. And and of course, no possibility of reversing it. They tried for 50 years and came up with nothing. For all intents and purposes, this It was published in The Lancet. This is the number one medical journal in in Great Britain, you know. So, we've known.

[00:26:38]We've been looking at all these these um uh the studies, the the surveys, the medical data. And yet in the United States, we stubbornly would not admit the narrative of something different than the ideology that was driven not really by the medical establishment. The medic The AMA, well, at least one of the spokesmen for the AMA AMA came out, you know, in favor of this and wasn't willing to to sort of step aside or even walk back a few of these items, but but kept on going and so he he, you know, is responsible for kind of hanging on, but the political ideology is what's driving it. And now, of course, we see the loss >> suits >> the women's sports. You watch. This is going to change because it's a time bomb that's ready to explode and the data has been out there, as I said, >> Right. Well, it's it's the emperor wears no clothes. The emperor has no clothes.

[00:27:34]It was just that nobody was had the ability uh if you said something about it, you got arrested, basically, and you know, whisked off to the you know, the gulag. So, nobody wanted to end up in the gulag, so >> Yeah. Well, it's calling that our our federal officials or at least some members of our Congress, not all, >> Right.

[00:27:55]>> but a lot of members of of the Congress are just not looking at the data.

[00:27:59]>> No, they're looking at phones and donations.

[00:28:03]>> [laughter] >> Exactly.

[00:28:04]>> Follow the money, Father. Follow the money.

[00:28:06]>> Also, virtue signaling. Virtue signaling.

[00:28:09]>> Absolutely.

[00:28:09]>> Remember, this is a big deal. Everybody wants to look good, >> That's right.

[00:28:13]>> virtuous in the eyes of the culture, so don't bring out any unpopular message that could make you look like you're not virtuous. So, as that same old >> Right.

[00:28:24]>> um pride rearing its ugly head once again.

[00:28:28]>> And it doesn't cost you anything. It's uh they used to talk about a politician kissing a baby doesn't cost you anything. Uh one last question before we go to the break. Uh Dear Father Spitzer, there's a church near where I work that has daily morning mass.

[00:28:41]If I get there early enough, I attend mass. Unfortunately, I often run late and arrive at communion time. Is it permissible to go in, receive communion, then leave for work? People receive communion outside of mass all the time, but I'm not sure that this is the same.

[00:28:54]Jen.

[00:28:56]>> Well, you know, I I had I would just say if you can possibly wake up earlier, really it it kind of gets strange to sort of pop in and receive communion. Now, if you are in need, you know, you can't get to a mass or you're homebound or you're sick, you know, that's why people receive communion without really, you know, being part of mass. But, I would say if you're not getting to the mass before the Eucharistic prayer um you know, begins, why you know, you know, half of the the real I mean, the graces of the Eucharist are there. I think it it's great, but you don't want to almost treat it like um give me the Eucharist and I'm out of here. We want to do it within the context of prayer, within the context that Jesus had originally wanted us to celebrate it in, namely you know, at the Last Supper, in the context of the the actual prayer of institution. That that's the Eucharistic prayer where that's contained. So, there used to be the old rule of, you know, uh uh would would the mass count after if you got there after the gospel? You know, and now today it's kind of changed a little bit, you know, I think, you know, if you can get there as the Eucharistic prayer is starting, well, that's great, but if you're just getting there like 1 minute before communion or something, uh that's probably not the best thing if you can like wake up like 15 minutes earlier, uh you would be there easily before the the Eucharistic prayer. So, I I would say I I mean, I it's probably you're going to get graces, obviously, but what are you really saying to the Lord that you know, I I the communion, but I I just don't want you know, 10 minutes of prayer for the Eucharistic prayer.

[00:30:47]>> Yeah.

[00:30:47]>> Okay. Well, very good. Thank you so much Father Spitzer. Stay right there and you stay right there as well cuz we've got much more ahead. We're going to be talking about the Pope's new document as well in the second part of the show.

[00:31:01]>> [music] >> And thank you so much for staying with us for part two of Father Spitzer's Universe. Also, be sure to tune in this Thursday, every Thursday at 11:00 a.m.

[00:31:32]Eastern Time. Again, at 10:30 p.m.

[00:31:35]Eastern Time as I get to host the Catholic Sphere. This week's topic will be whose child is this? The state versus the family, a Catholic perspective.

[00:31:43]Joining me on the panel will be Father Gerald Murray, Mary Rice Hanson Hanson, I should say. And of course, Colin Donovan. So, that's a great panel.

[00:31:53]So, check out that show. And Father Spitzer shows up every once in a while on that program as well when we can afford him.

[00:31:59]So, uh >> [laughter] >> He charges.

[00:32:03]>> That's right. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[00:32:06]Anyway, so what we wanted to get to rather than continuing on with the various questions that people sent in. We hope people respect this. We just thought that that because of your AI involvement with the Magis AI, the fact that you actually wrote a preview article answering some questions that the Register put out.

[00:32:27]Actually, you're speaking on EWTN radio.

[00:32:29]I think that's where they got it from that Conversations with Consequences.

[00:32:33]You were interviewed on that program.

[00:32:36]And there's a nice article with your faith and reason there. I like to see that picture there you standing by the intersection sign.

[00:32:43]>> [laughter] >> But but the I just thought it would be good to kind of maybe spend the rest of this show kind of talking about this document. And let me ask you first, is the document different than you expected it to be?

[00:32:59]>> Well, I would say it's got two differences you know than I would have expected to [clears throat] have but both of them I think good. I think first you know I expected it to be pretty much AI centric and it was. It was mostly about AI. But also he the Pope Pope Leo is very much concerned about technocracy in general.

[00:33:20]So he widened the the scope of the encyclical a little bit to talk about basically a philosophy and theology of technology and what it's doing not only to the human person anthropologically but what it's doing to the culture. So I thought that was a really good thing. So he's he's including he doesn't explicitly talk about biotech or you know quantum tech or nano tech or all these other things or the different degrees of biotech or different kinds of biotech etc. He doesn't you know do that but he he does widen the scope. He's worried about as we become more techno-centric in the way we view things there is an anthropological consequence and I thought that that he's correct about this that we can start treating people like numbers and we can start looking at people analytically instead of from the heart from the vantage point of empathy from the vantage point of love and care from the vantage point of morals and principles from the vantage point of religion and transcendence instead of doing that what he's saying is we're starting to look at people more and more and I think he's absolutely right about this. A more in a new numeric and analytic fashion.

[00:34:37]>> [snorts] >> And the problem with looking at people numerically and analytically is then you can't really see intrinsic dignity anymore. All that's left of a person is extrinsic dignity. So, how much have you done? What degrees do you have? What books did you publish? How tall are you?

[00:34:53]How beautiful are you?

[00:34:55]>> kind of an approach to thing. A utilitarian.

[00:34:58]>> are you absolutely correct.

[00:35:02]>> Okay.

[00:35:02]>> And that is um I I think it's a problem.

[00:35:05]I think it is here uh with us, and I think um we have to to deal with it in the culture >> Mhm.

[00:35:13]>> to make sure that the transcendental and moral empathetic caring qualities of every human being, and especially their individual uh personhood, in their transcendent mystery and their their unique goodness and lovability, we have to protect this as a culture, and one of the ways he's saying of doing it, of course, is being cognizant of it in our church. In other words, the first thing we got to do is educate ourselves, >> Mhm.

[00:35:43]>> you know, and make sure that we're aware something's happening to us. And even though we think, "Oh gosh, we're not affected like that. I'm not treating people more utilitarian, um you know, analytically, you know, um in in in numerically, and so forth." Oh, well, that's not really affecting What he's basically saying is you use these technologies, don't you? You know, you you're still um uh you know, on the social media, you're on AI having it do all uh just be aware of what this is doing to you, even though you say, "I I I can I've got the perspective. I'm not going to be manipulated and taken over." But in a sense, the more you use it, you've got to be cognizant of resisting the utilitarian turn, the analytical numerical turn. And he's just warning us, and I think it's a very very important warning because we just don't want to turn people into things, thingify them, objectify them. So, he it does take He says, "What's this doing to our culture, too? What's valuable?" And so, again, he's looking at what are the effects of technology in general and a techno- centrism in general. So, I like that part of it. Didn't expect it. Thought it was really great. And so, I thought that was very good. I think that, you know, other things that came out He did have a much more extensive The usual things I thought would be treated, you know, for example, autonomous weaponry.

[00:37:18]You know, that's As I said in my EWTN article I wrote thing you talked about. Yeah, the reconfiguration of the workplace. These are things we knew had to be treated cuz again, you have to have a very ethical response to when jobs start disappearing, getting the training, the retraining that's necessary. If we do this retraining right, if we really organizations take the time to work with the people that they're, you know, obviously a lot of accountants, a lot of legal research folks, a lot of people doing white-collar tasks. This is not going to be a blue-collar change in the workforce. There's still That's going to be a minimum effect in the blue-collar areas. It's the white-collar, high-salary areas that are going to be affected. And he treated those very well. I thought Pope Leo did a great job. He basically is saying we do, all of us, not just the big corporations, though they have a specially an ethical duty to retraining these people. If you're hiring more than 25,000 people or you've got more than 25,000 people in your employ, you have an ethical duty to retrain them. You just can't let you know, tens of thousands of people go, you know, and and not give them any kind of skill or something or give them something where they can go to a a place so that it maybe they're um doing some kind of programming. Today we know Claude is going to do a lot of coding and programming better and faster than a lot of coders and programmers. So you're not you're going to see a huge follow-up >> have So we have the reverse of the Hillary Clinton statement about all of Remember the line about the guys in the coal mines? Well, they're going to they're going to learn how to code. So now the coders are going to go to the coal mines. Is that's what we're seeing now?

[00:39:17]>> Oh, well, the coders are going to wind up being unemployed, which is going to threaten the family, as he put it.

[00:39:23]That's one of the areas I did not expect is him to bring up the effects on the family, which I think are really great. The effects on the individual are are well known, but even on on on the family where, you know, now AI, you know, pretending to be, you know, a human agent, which it cannot be. AI can never become self-conscious because self-consciousness is not reducible to physical processes and structures. We have very good data on this, very good arguments for this that show that such a process of getting oneself getting oneself, which is what gives us our inner universe and our self-concern, is not reducible to physical processes and structures. It's like as it were traveling at an infinite infinite velocity, which you cannot do.

[00:40:15]The same thing with abstract intelligence. It can't be reduced to physical processes and structures. AI will never think like we think. It will never think from higher categories down to lower categories. It's always going to be from the bottom up because that's the way machine learning is because machine learning is reducible to physical processes and structures. The same thing holds true with a host of other things like conscience and morals and and certainly for caring and empathy. All the various uh, trends and dental uh, you know, sensibility, religious sensibility, interior spiritual sensibility. All you know, you you you know, you're never going to have it. But yet bots, they simulate it so [snorts] well that all of a sudden you've got kids out there who think, you know, this bot knows more than my parents. Well, the bot may have access to more data than your parents. I'll grant you that. But the bot certainly does not feel like your parents, care like your parents, >> Right.

[00:41:15]>> believe like your parents, have principles and morals like your parents, have respect for you like your parents.

[00:41:21]You know, obviously that's how you can get these bots turning into suicide counselors in just 1 second because it's trying to All it's doing is trying to align itself to your preferences. So it doesn't try to do anything. It's just there to align itself to your preferences. So if you say I like to do suicide counseling, >> I think I think that's an important point for us to understand just as just as simple things like you know, suddenly the movies you tend to like show up on your YouTube channel on a regular basis or the other topics. It's the same idea that this thing is is learning about you and is going to feed you what it thinks you like or you will like.

[00:42:01]>> Exactly.

[00:42:02]>> Right.

[00:42:03]>> Yeah, so well that's absolutely the case. It's It all it can do is align. So I of course it could You want to disalign. But of course nobody's You're not going to sell AI by having it you know disaligned.

[00:42:17]>> [laughter] >> Yeah, exactly. You don't want to do that.

[00:42:19]>> Right.

[00:42:20]>> your marketplace share to remain intact.

[00:42:22]>> Right.

[00:42:23]>> the main thing is yeah, it's of course trained.

[00:42:26]There's a lot of training that goes into it like billions and billions of phrases and words and and techniques and algorithms that are that it's trained on. And the main thing is you know, it's trained to align so it when it perceives or it doesn't perceive anything but when it it it it can predict what you want and of course it's trained to recognize patterns and from the patterns to make predictions. That it can do and that on that it'll predict an aligning pattern basis of the algorithms and training it as and from that point on it's going to keep you know, doing you know, that alignment and even to coach you to suicide.

[00:43:05]>> Yeah.

[00:43:05]>> So that's why so many people are killing >> obviously. There's a story about that.

[00:43:09]>> it's not just one story.

[00:43:10]It's not just one story.

[00:43:11]>> Yeah, okay.

[00:43:13]>> stories now and it's not just that but it's other kinds of things. If you say you know, gosh, you know, I'd like to sleep with my girlfriend. The the AI will go here's the best way to go about doing that.

[00:43:26]>> Really?

[00:43:26]>> So it's oh yeah, very much so.

[00:43:29]>> I know your AI could could become your girlfriend with some of these situations that [laughter] we're dealing with.

[00:43:33]>> Well, that's the align itself to do that too.

[00:43:37]To give you all the sympathy and care that it can simulate that you want. So [snorts] essentially you've got something [clears throat] there that doesn't really give a rip about anybody.

[00:43:49]You yet it it has such a great simulation capacity that it can convince somebody who doesn't have full frontal lobe you know, capacity yet. Remember, I mean 21 years old is when you know, the frontal lobe is is fully developed. So people think oh my adolescent they're just they have just as good a judgment as me." There are some who really do have good frontal lobe development early on.

[00:44:15]>> Unfortunately, that >> By and large, that's an improper deduction.

[00:44:19]>> Unfortunately, that might be true and that be a might be a problem with the parent, you know.

[00:44:24]>> Yeah, well, that's true, too.

[00:44:25]>> [laughter] >> Looking at the opposite way around.

[00:44:28]>> Right, right.

[00:44:30]>> So, I mean, you can't, you know, you can't expect an adolescent who doesn't have full full frontal lobe or the experience in life to make the as good a judgment as you, the adult, the parent, etc. So, the idea of seeding this to the adolescents as so many high school public high school teachers, you know, they go, "Oh, we must let our adolescents make their own decisions."

[00:44:53]I would say you should give them autonomous freedom to the point where they're not self-destructive.

[00:45:00]Do not believe you.

[00:45:01]>> if that's what you believe, why should you be teaching anything?

[00:45:06]You should just let everybody, you know, the old uh let Summerhill or one of those old things from the '60s, you know, the free schools or whatever where just learn on your own, you know, you through osmosis.

[00:45:19]>> Yeah.

[00:45:20]Well, that's the whole point is, you know, it's it's ridiculous because all you can do is teach knowledge, but the adult is necessary to teach wisdom and to teach judgment. And the these things of wisdom and judgment require life experience, require that you have frontal lobe development, and require that, you know, the child has the morality and the conscience formation and the religious formation and transcendental appreciation of the mystery of the human being that you have as an adult. You want that to come across and the idea of turning your the idea of a teacher begin being just a knowledge conveyor instead of a wisdom conveyor, well, you may as well go to the Khan Academy. You know, just just go to you get turn on your computer, go to Khan and get the math knowledge. Get the physics knowledge.

[00:46:10]You can get it. You know, it's there.

[00:46:12]It's cheaper. Don't have to sit through a class with people who are not as competitive as you, etc. etc. That makes sense. But no, I mean, the reason we have classrooms is we want teachers who have wisdom, who have morals, who have an appreciation of the transcendental value of every person, who have an appreciation, you know, of of the the you know, the the ultimate causes and ultimate grounds like God of of everything. And of course, in in you know, that that we turn to some source of revelation of God so we could find a path, even a transcendental path to a transcendental and eternal salvation that we believe is inscribed in the very beginning. As as Augustine said, "For thou has made us for thyself and our hearts are restless until they rest in thee." We'll never be satisfied without an eternal life that is basically immersed and bathed in transcendental and perfect goodness, love, truth, beauty, and home. And so, you know, that's what we're destined for, St. Augustine. And of course, our hearts are going to be restless until we get there.

[00:47:18]But if we don't recognize these things, teachers don't recognize parents don't recognize these things and limit their you know, their teaching as it were to mere knowledge instead of wisdom, oh my gosh. Yeah, we're we're finished. We're toast as a culture. We are toast. And if you want an apologetic for why you need Catholic schools, religious-based schools, and all kinds of other you know, private schools that really do think that wisdom and training and and wisdom modeling, you know, is just as important if not more important than knowledge conveyance, this is the apologetic. We don't want to be toast as a church or as a culture. We just have to stop this horrible philosophy of education that has come out of you know, I think the popular culture.

[00:48:11]And of course, as Pope Leo says, AI plays to this view of education. AI is not a wisdom agent and he says it like two or three times in in the thing. It just It doesn't have wisdom. It doesn't have judgment. It doesn't have morals. It doesn't have empathy and care. It doesn't have self-sacrifice built into it out of love. It doesn't have any transcendental or religious appreciation. It has no sense of ultimate causation or ultimate grounds except perhaps on a deductive basis. I mean, if you put a debate together in AI whether God exists or doesn't exist, AI will say it's more likely that God exists on the basis of analytical and logical evidence. If you put a debate together even on the pro-life situation as I just saw the other day, that you know, pro-life versus anti-life the AI doing both sides, AI will say pro-life is is is is a winner on the basis. But it can only do it out of logic. It can only do it out of moral principle. Now, I'm okay with that as as a as a starting point. But at the end of the day, too, we need to to have that sense of feeling the sense of conscience, feeling the sense of the mystery of the human being. We need to have a feeling, a sense, an empathos, an empathy for the unique goodness, love-ability, and transcendental mystery of every single human being. If we do not [clears throat] have these things, you know, you can't turn into a Mr. Spock. You know, if if if you do that, Uh, you know, basically a logical operator, at the end of the day, we will be toast. Because without those feelings, there is no true wisdom.

[00:50:00]Wisdom that will be acted upon. So, yes, I I I love logic. I love mathematics.

[00:50:06]I've always loved it. I always think that, you know, if you can get a good rational, scientifically oriented argument, start there, build on the you know, faith and reason, build on the ground of logic and science and rationality. Yes, all of that is great.

[00:50:26]And mathematics, of course, is part of the scientific method. But, the main thing, though, is at the end of the day, we also have to have a heart. Those feelings are not to be depreciated. Yes, they must be delimited. You cannot operate on feelings alone, obviously.

[00:50:44]Then, you become a dunderhead and you don't do things properly. But, at the same time, you can't underappreciate empathy or the sense of conscience and you know, the sense of guilt and shame or the feeling of nobility and self-sacrifice or just that sense of the mystery and the goodness and lovability of the other that you will defend at any cost because you recognize the transcendental value of that person.

[00:51:10]Well, AI has none of that and therefore, it can't teach you wisdom. It can only be a knowledge conveyer that aligns itself to your preferences. This is not you know, a a teaching source. And Pope Leo has a whole section on education there, which uh, doesn't use my words, but uses you know, a similar kind of analysis to to say, we need education and we've got to be careful that we don't seed education over to AI. Just like, you know, I mean, the Khan Academy does a lot of good. I mean, for people who can't afford a a private school or something, get the math from the Khan get the physics from the Khan it's by the way I I love their teachers, you know, in the Khan Academy. I think some of them are actually got a little humor, a lot of good knowledge. It's all there, you know, but you're not going to get wisdom there and of course you're not going to get wisdom from AI.

[00:52:11]You need that teacher to model it and if you got a bunch of teachers who are turning themselves into dunderheads, uh literally turning themselves into non-wisdom agents, just telling students to think for themselves and not trying to even Socratically prod them out of it by asking questions and trying to advance their perspective transcendentally and morally and empathetically and caringly.

[00:52:37]What what have we got left? You know, I mean, talk about a replaceable profession. That kind of teacher, yeah.

[00:52:45]We can just put the old AI, roll it right into the room and put a little social context for the kids to have after they've taken their AI classes and everything is done. Those kinds of teachers are totally replace replaceable. But a Mr. Chips or, you know, obviously the great teachers that you read about, the Socratic teachers, the Platos, the the the great Aquinas's and the great Augustines, right? These greatest teachers of all time they're irreplaceable and they cannot be replaced by AI.

[00:53:20]>> So where did you where did you dig up Robert Donat and Mr. Chips?

[00:53:25]You know, >> [laughter] >> he did win the Academy Award the year of that so that so that uh >> He had done something >> So Clark Gable didn't, but so which >> [laughter] >> you know, the year of '39, but you know, and then it was remade later I think with Rick Harrison, but not not nearly as good as the original. But with that, you're our own Father Chips here.

[00:53:45]Well, if you can give us your blessing on the way out the door. We're going to talk more about this on our next show as well. I think there's still a lot of questions I want to put to you.

[00:53:54]>> Absolutely.

[00:53:55]>> Yeah.

[00:53:55]>> Absolutely. And bow your heads and pray for God's blessing. And may the Lord of all wisdom and goodness and love send his spirit down upon you to fill you with that same wisdom, that same capability for mentoring and modeling, that same capability which leads others to greater morality and sacrifice, religious commitment, transcendentality, appreciation and empathy for others to send upon you, inspire you, guide you, protect you into the fullness of life and especially of the eternal life of those you mentor and teach in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

[00:54:39]>> Amen. Thank you so much, Father. Stay well and we shall see you next week. And don't forget, of course, Father's books and DVDs that we still have some of those that are available in EWTN's religious catalog, okay? So, also next week's show, we're going to talk a little bit more about the same topic about the latest encyclical on AI and EWTN's Bookmark, Victims of the Revolution, how sexual liberation hurts us all. That's a fine interview with an author named Nathaniel Blake. Check that out. And I'm promoting, of course, The Servant of All, The Sacrament of Holy Orders. This original drama tells the story of a young medical student as he discerns a calling to be a priest. And that's Saturday, May 30th, believe it or not, May 30th, 2:00 p.m. Eastern time here on EWTN. We'll see you next time right here in Father Spencer's Universe.

[00:55:29]Be well.

[00:55:33]>> [music] >> Oh.