The $14 Trillion Industry No One Talks About: Maritime Law with Shambhavi Raut

[00:00:06][music] >> Hello everyone, welcome back to our season three. Today we are delighted to host Miss Shambhavi Rao, a legal professional who has built her specialized career in the fascinating and globally significant field of maritime law.

[00:00:23]Advocate Shambhavi holds an LLM in maritime law from the National University of Singapore, one of the world's leading universities and a global hub for maritime and shipping law. Prior to that, she completed her she completed her LLB from Government Law College, Mumbai, one of India's most prestigious law institutions.

[00:00:41]Professionally, Miss Shambhavi has worked across different facets of maritime practice. She began her career in litigation and arbitration at Bose and Mitra and Company, where she dealt with charter party disputes, ship arrests, and maritime insurance claims.

[00:00:56]She later joined CMA CGM, one of the world's leading shipping and logistics companies, where she worked as a senior legal analyst in maritime claims, handling complex cargo disputes, contract interpretation, and recovery matters involving dry and reefer containers.

[00:01:12]Currently, she's associated with Rico Pex Global, where she's advising stakeholders in the maritime industry and works on the recovery of maritime claims against shipping lines and debtors, particularly assisting exporters and commercial entities.

[00:01:28]With her unique experience spanning international legal education, maritime litigation, shipping industry claims, and commercial recovery, Miss Shambhavi brings a rare perspective on how maritime law operates both in courtroom and in the global trade.

[00:01:42]In today's conversation, we will explore her journey from pursuing an LLM in Singapore to building a career in maritime law in India, and understand the opportunities this niche field offers to young lawyers interested in international trade and shipping law. We welcome you, ma'am.

[00:01:59]>> Thank you so much.

[00:02:01]>> So, ma'am, to start with, you pursued your LLM in maritime law from the School of Law at the National University of Singapore. Could you explain the application process for Indian students? What are the eligibility requirements, entrance tests, and documents required to secure an admission?

[00:02:18]>> Most importantly, I would suggest that you start planning early. So, it should not be a last-moment thing.

[00:02:25]Uh you need an LLB degree. And again, you need to plan your admission so that, you know, you have your LLB transcripts in your hand, because that is one problem that Indian students face a lot.

[00:02:36]Then, you have to check the application window. So, NUS application NUS LLM application windows opens the latter part of the year.

[00:02:44]So, be sure of that.

[00:02:46]Accordingly, you will have to plan your TOEFL or IELTS. That's one requirement in addition to an LLB degree.

[00:02:53]So, these are the basic requirements that you need in hand before you, you know, even begin your application process.

[00:02:59]>> Mhm.

[00:02:59]>> And additionally, you need all your documents, basically your transcripts, you know, your identification documents, all of these things. Uh the NUS portal is actually pretty simple. You will have to create an account, and the process is actually very easy once you have all the documents.

[00:03:17]So, yes, you will have to keep a lookout on their website.

[00:03:22]>> All right. And what motivated you to choose the National University of Singapore for your LLM? Especially when in when in India, many students traditionally prefer the UK or other common law jurisdictions.

[00:03:35]>> For me, it was a combination of the professors that are there for maritime law, because if you check out the professors, each one of them is like a stalwart in their field.

[00:03:46]That is one thing. Secondly, the rankings. So, NUS So, LLM for in maritime law is a pretty high.

[00:03:54]So, those were chiefly the criteria.

[00:03:57]If you also see the the modules which are offered by NUS, they are also very good. Like they are all-encompassing where covering all the important parts of you know maritime law.

[00:04:09]And uh another thing is Singapore is like again a very dynamic maritime jurisdiction.

[00:04:15]It's like that up-and-coming uh jurisdiction and it's really like say few hours away from India. So, these were also the wider considerations that I had before choosing Singapore.

[00:04:29]>> Right. And how long is the LLM program in maritime law at NUS? And what are some of the key subjects or modules that you study during the course?

[00:04:38]>> So, the duration is 1 year and it covers all of the major topics like of maritime law like carriage of goods by sea, the admiralty law, then marine insurance law, trade finance law, charter parties.

[00:04:53]Uh So, basically these are the kind of topics which are the core of maritime law when you are actually coming out to work.

[00:05:03]So, yes. It's an all-encompassing uh subjects that are there at NUS.

[00:05:10]>> And can you give us an idea of the tuition fees and the overall cost of pursuing this LLM including living expenses in Singapore?

[00:05:19]>> And now this is the difficult question because obviously from the time I was there it has changed now. Uh the course fees I last checked were around 30 42,000 Singapore dollars which comes around 30 lakhs.

[00:05:34]So, if you count that as your main course fees, monthly expenses depends on your accommodation because hostels are cheaper.

[00:05:43]Private accommodation or you know co-living spaces or you know you rent out a room in an apartment, they are a bit on the costlier side.

[00:05:51]Uh similarly, your food expenses are also on the higher side. So, if you can, I would suggest people you can cook on your own. You just you know, that's also a good experience.

[00:06:04]But if you you know, if you end up eating outside, the expenses can go up higher like around 1.5 to 2.

[00:06:11]>> So, okay.

[00:06:11]>> Lakh per month. As I said, it's it's a combination of factors.

[00:06:16]>> Mhm.

[00:06:17]And in fact, since you talked about accommodation, my next question was that exactly. What accommodation options are available for international students at NUS? Did you stay in university housing or private accommodation? And what should students budget for rent and daily expenses be?

[00:06:35]>> I did stay in the NUS hostels. So, for me the expenses were a little on the lower side. But NUS has like a lot of hostels both on the law campus as well as on the main campus. But again, there are so many students and you're basically competing for a limited number of rooms.

[00:06:55]So, the trick is obviously to apply once the application window begins. So again, you have to be very careful, be updated about when is this application window for hostel admissions opening. And NUS is also very particular about that. They notify you all of these beforehand.

[00:07:10]>> Okay.

[00:07:11]>> As long as you are you know, updated about all of these application windows, you shall be fine.

[00:07:17]Um food expenses, it depends on from where you eat. Mainly students prefer you know, these hawker centers or something like that. But even then, it's still a little costlier.

[00:07:32]Uh grocery is also costly there. So, overall, it is expensive. Singapore, the living costs are expensive. But uh there's public transport >> Okay.

[00:07:44]>> although cheap compared to Singapore standards, it's still expensive if you factor that into uh your monthly expenses.

[00:07:51]So, yes, cost of living is very high there.

[00:07:54]>> Right. And since you talked about budget and cost of living, are there any scholarships, financial aid programs, or grants available for international students pursuing an LLM at NUS? If yes, how competitive are they and how can students apply?

[00:08:09]>> Uh yes, NUS does have uh certain scholarships for the LLM program.

[00:08:14]But, again, as you are competing against like students all over the world, and even recently NUS has been, you know, climbing up the rankings, so the competition for those is kind of tough.

[00:08:26]And uh yes, I I I I there's really no criteria. You have to give a statement of purpose as to why you feel you deserve the scholarship.

[00:08:35]And then, obviously, uh every you check out the scholarship again. Uh admission to a university is, I feel, greatly dependent on how much research you do of that university. You need to know the university before you apply, so you can target, you know, the your application in a way that, you know, it should strike a chord with them.

[00:08:57]>> Right.

[00:08:57]>> Nevertheless, it is kind of difficult to get a scholarship there.

[00:09:01]>> Right. And uh since you, you know, mentioned all the stalwarts at NUS, uh how was the teaching methodology at NUS different from what you experienced during your LLB in India? What aspects of their legal education system do you think Indian law schools could adopt?

[00:09:19]>> The structured coursework, uh I think is very important. Like, right at the start of the term, we are given an outline of the entire course uh for every module. And we also have course handouts.

[00:09:33]>> Okay.

[00:09:33]>> know what topics are going to be covered. In addition to that, on our student portal, we are also given the pre-readings for each topic. Like, for example, tomorrow is going to be this topic, these are the pre-readings. So, some professors upload it, some share the course material with you at the start of the year.

[00:09:53]So, this is like really systematic. You know what is going to be happening in the lecture, so that when you're attending it, you're well prepared.

[00:10:00]And the professor starts from a level knowing that you have read it. So, the discussions also become very fruitful.

[00:10:08]And I think that really helps a lot because again, these university, the exams are not like the exams we have here in India. They are mainly research type of exams, so the question paper is something that we used to take 15 to 20 minutes just to understand the question paper.

[00:10:25]>> So, okay.

[00:10:26]>> It is that way that because of this teaching method, you learn how to not only study, but also think from that perspective.

[00:10:36]And that I think is a very good plus point for the legal education there.

[00:10:43]It's just kind of missing in India.

[00:10:45]So, that was the amazing part.

[00:10:49]It was the best part there.

[00:10:50]>> All right, and how did your LLM specialization in maritime law influence your career path when you returned to India? Did you Did it give you a competitive advantage in securing roles in maritime practice in the shipping industry?

[00:11:05]>> I would like to believe yes, because as I said, the coursework there is so amazing that you have an exposure to all these major maritime topics. So, nothing is like out of the blue, nothing is new.

[00:11:18]Maybe I'm not an expert on that topic, but I may have done that during my studies somewhere.

[00:11:22]>> Okay.

[00:11:23]>> And the leading cases, so we kind of know most of them. And nothing is a surprise, we know where to look at.

[00:11:30]Like, for example, if we are, you know, faced with some issue, we have to give an advisory. I know where to look at.

[00:11:36]So, that is the kind of competitive edge an LLM in maritime law gives you.

[00:11:40]And again, Singapore having a good ranking uh and a good name in the West, so it also helps, I feel, in you know, to open a few paths here in India.

[00:11:54]>> Right. Right. And as you mentioned, yes, Singapore is one of world's leading maritime hubs. Did you consider working there after completing your LLM? What factors influenced your decision to return India instead of pursuing a career in Singapore?

[00:12:09]>> Oh, I won't lie. I really did try there, but I went there during COVID. So, the job scenario was not really great and because the companies there, they have to sponsor your visa and companies actually at that time were laying off people, foreign workers. So, the situation was less than ideal. I did try nevertheless, but once I realized it's not really working, I decided to come back to India.

[00:12:33]Uh another thing is for me, what matters is the quality of life and by quality of life, I don't mean, you know, good roads and good buildings.

[00:12:42]Uh small things like in India, the healthcare is so accessible. It's not the case there.

[00:12:47]You know, like, you can just go to a pharmacist, get some medicine over the counter for like small things like headache or, you know, cough, cold. It's not the case there. So, you know, these small things for me influence my life more profoundly than say good infrastructure or, you know, good quality of life in the sense that people usually talk about.

[00:13:07]So, for me, India was always to be where I wanted to work and [clears throat] the situation just kind of hastened my return to India.

[00:13:17]>> And for Indian students who wish to work internationally in maritime law after an LLM, what practical steps should they should they take during their studies such as internships or networking or certifications.

[00:13:30]>> Uh networking is one of the underrated aspects I think today because uh getting in touch with people who are in this field really helps a lot. Like maybe not all will respond to your messages, but some will and they can say help you with an internship, help you with a position, something like that. So, networking is something I feel students today should really concentrate on. Internships also help. So, you need to know what you're getting out of that internship. Like just if you're going there for a certificate, it's not really going to help because when it comes to jobs, you we need to see what you bring to the table instead of, you know, those internship certificates. So, again, when you are applying for a job, uh you need to convince the person that you have the skill set necessary for that job. And if nothing else, you have that enthusiasm to, you know, learn. So, I think these are the most underrated yet very important aspects of uh the job market today.

[00:14:26]>> Right. And, you know, since we're talking about job market, uh looking back at your journey itself from litigation at Bose and Mitra, uh when you applied for roles in maritime law firms and shipping companies, what kind of preparation did you do beforehand? Uh did you focus more on legal knowledge, industry knowledge, or practical case studies? I mean, did during your interview process, what kind of questions were you typically asked about maritime law? Uh were they theoretic theoretical, practical, or based on real shipping disputes?

[00:14:56]>> It was actually a mix of both. So, at Bose and Mitra, it was more of theoretical because I came with uh a very less job experience into that job and fresh from an LLM. Whereas at CMA, uh it was a more tricky uh interview stage where uh they were checking if I'm able to apply that theory and practical knowledge to real-life uh shipping scenarios. So, and obviously, you end up you lead the interview to where you want to go. So, that is another skill you can implement. So, yeah, it's it's actually a mix of both theory and practical questions which are usually asked. But for freshers, I think an enthusiasm to learn and you know, basic knowledge about maritime law is more than enough.

[00:15:47]Or at least if you don't know anything, be honest and say I don't know about this, but I'm willing to learn. So, I think I think it's the golden rule.

[00:15:54]>> Right. Right. Rather than sounding oversmart.

[00:15:56]>> Yes. Yes. Yeah.

[00:15:58]>> [laughter] >> Uh so, many young lawyers struggle with transitioning from litigation to corporate legal roles.

[00:16:04]How did you prepare for interviews with companies like CMA CGM and what skills were they specifically looking for?

[00:16:13]>> So, CMA we had a two three levels of interviews and from what I gleaned, they were basically just trying to see if I was a good fit when it comes to as I said, enthusiasm to learn because after litigation, corporate can be a bit boring for some people. So, [clears throat] it should not be like, you know, I'm looking down on the job. I'm looking down at the role or something.

[00:16:35]What they see is what you bring to the table and how much you're willing to learn because the transition as you said, it is big.

[00:16:43]So, I think that enthusiasm uh matters.

[00:16:47]>> Mhm.

[00:16:48]>> Obviously, you learn as you grow. It's not that I'm you know, you learned your theory and tomorrow you can just start working there. No, you need to learn how to apply that theory to.

[00:16:59]And uh you have seniors to guide you. So, how much are you willing to learn from them?

[00:17:04]Uh that really matters.

[00:17:08]>> Right. Maritime disputes, ma'am, you know, it often involves multiple jurisdictions because ships travel across different countries. And in such cases, how is jurisdiction determined, and which country's courts or arbitration forums typically handle these disputes?

[00:17:25]>> So, this is actually a true test of a good maritime lawyer because as a good lawyer, I have to see what best suits my client, what jurisdiction best suits my client, and then uh I have to choose that. But, yes, when it comes to ship arrests and all of that, that is a complete different matter.

[00:17:43]But, if you're talking about jurisdictions, say for shipping other kind of shipping disputes like cargo disputes or something like that, uh you have multiple contracts. So, there is a volume contract between the shipping line and say a big player in the market where they, you know, they decide to ship say X number of containers over this period of time.

[00:18:03]That contract has one jurisdiction clause, and it may or may not apply a specific cargo convention.

[00:18:09]Then, you have the bill of lading, which has maybe applies another convention.

[00:18:14]Has another jurisdiction clause.

[00:18:17]So, and say something happens to like the goods somewhere in between. So, again, there is a issue like which country's jurisdiction it is in or something like that. So, yeah, the trick is to see that uh I have to ensure that whatever jurisdiction I am fighting for is kind of feasible for my client. So, then you try to find you know, different factors to make your argument stronger.

[00:18:43]And like there are also issues where uh say country A, uh it applies force majeure to both incoming shipments as well as outgoing shipments. And say one country applies it only to incoming shipments.

[00:18:55]So, technically, both country A and B uh will have jurisdiction. But then, my job is to ensure like if laws in A are kind of favorable to my client, I'll kind of push towards that. So, for this question, there's technically no right answer. It's just lawyers trying to, you know, be a lawyer.

[00:19:14]>> Yes, absolutely right you said. And lastly, ma'am, for our viewers especially, does your current organization offer internships? If yes, how can students apply?

[00:19:26]>> I would actually like to recommend internships at CMA because they have a very good internship program that in you are trained for a few months in theory theory as well as practical aspects of maritime law and then you're made ready to, you know, enter the workforce. Obviously, that is basis merit and, you know, they have examinations and all that. But the way they train you in both theory and practical matters is is really good. So, that is one internship program that I'll really recommend.

[00:20:02]>> All right. How do we apply there, ma'am, if if you have any suggestions?

[00:20:08]>> Once they have an openings, they usually take it around the middle of the year. You can follow some people like say Chandni Hariramani or Terence Almeida from CMA CGM and they would usually or anyone who works in CMA CGM India, you can just follow them. People just keep reposting for, you know, openings that we are applying inviting applications for internship program.

[00:20:33]So, again, if you can just >> keep ourselves updated on LinkedIn and other ways.

[00:20:40]>> Yes. Yes.

[00:20:41]>> Got it. Got it. Thank you so much, ma'am. Thank you for sharing your insights and experiences so openly. Your journey definitely shows how law graduates can adapt, evolve, and succeed internationally.

[00:20:53]I mean, you've been incredibly kind with your generous time and guidance here today. We really appreciate it. Thank you and we wish you the very best for your journey.

[00:21:03]>> Thank you so much for inviting me. It's really nice to, you know, if you are able to help some people you know follow this field or something like that it really feels good and if there's one thing I really like to tell people is please stay curious and always be open to learning new things if nothing this attitude will actually take you places so that's it from my side thank you again.

[00:21:26]>> Thank you ma'am thank you so much.

[00:21:29]>> [music]