Saed Zboan | Living in the most tear-gassed place on Earth | Aida Refugee Camp, Palestine

[00:00:12]Hurry. [singing] [music] Today we speak with S coordinator at the IDA youth center born and raised in Ida refugee camp founded in 1968.

[00:00:38]The I the youth center is a grassroots organization that works with camps, children and young people through art, film, photography, music and summer programs and advocates for refugees rights. Say is also one of the people who walks visitors through Ida, explaining from the inside what it means to live uncircled by a wall under watchtowers and at the sharp end of a military occupation. Ida is one of the most uh densely populated places about 5,500 people um in a few square kilometers and it was established in 1950 right >> um by Palestinians who were expelled uh in the 1948 Nagba.

[00:01:35]So I have been to Ida and uh S say walked me through it and while um he was uh showing me I don't know if you remember this but while we you actually were showing me the camp uh Israeli army fired tear gas and we saw the children uh beginning to to run and and afterwards I I ate makua at your place cooked by your mom. the best Maklu I ever had. Um, and so this conversation will be about that place, that history and that um, you know, the story of also of refusal of everyone who is in Ida.

[00:02:19]Um, first of all, I'm really happy you are here and you made it to >> Thank you so much for being here. Um so Isa exists because the 1948 families uh were you know driven from more than 40 villages uh around Jerusalem Ibbron and they were never allowed back. Uh where is your family originally from and what do you still carry or even like your mom uh carries from you know that village that they were forced to to leave. So actually we are originally from Jerusalem in a place is called and uh it's there is on part of it some settlements actually and uh it's still exist um what we have carried from there is nothing beyond our inherited memories and the key >> which is the key of our like uh house cuz you know like uh in the Palestinians during this time they thought it's going to be like a just a short >> shootings is they didn't even consider it a war short like shooting and things is going to come back as it was with a few days >> so that's why once they left their houses once they left their villages cities they didn't have anything with them like most of the some others they had their money belongings so that's how like there was like a different uh you know ways of how the refugees lived.

[00:04:02]Some in a better conditions and others in a very terrible conditions because they had only their memories and their keys with them.

[00:04:09]>> And this one one of them was my grandfather. Uh he only had his key and there was like a very you know crazy story that we always like hear it from them. I I always wondered like how come like in within within me like I've never told this to my grandfather. How come that someone leave Jerusalem the most beautiful place in the whole world?

[00:04:33]But then later during the last uh war that happened uh the genocide that happened in Gaza, I was like okay now I understand >> why he left. Now I understand what the thing that forced him to leave as well.

[00:04:48]If I was in his place I would do the same thing to protect my family and everything that I had like as a thing.

[00:04:55]So once they left they had a very you know lost conversation in Jerusalem.

[00:05:02]They were cooking uh in their like yards and uh he told my grandmother just like you know what lower the fire on this uh she said why like they're shooting said just lower it down so we need to around Jerusalem we come back the shooting will stop and we're going to find our food ready. You know, this was the last conversation.

[00:05:25]>> Wow.

[00:05:26]>> It's not. And you know what happened? Do we say it's more than 76 years and uh food is not ready yet.

[00:05:34]>> Yeah.

[00:05:35]>> So this is what the thing that we have.

[00:05:39]It's just the memory of how the house looks like. I know it. I know exactly how it looks even though I have never seen it. I know all the names of the streets there. I know the the actually the names of the trees more than the one that were living there. Not because we live in the past. No, because we are there is a difference between that you are remembering something or someone force you to forget something. So what we are doing is we are trying to remember our past to protect our future.

[00:06:09]>> Mhm.

[00:06:10]>> It's not that we just live in there for all this time.

[00:06:13]>> So yeah, that's what is left. We still have the key because we hand it generation after generation. And what does the key mean to you? It's like it's memory. It's definance. It's >> the key it's as I said it's not just like something for the past. It it's a reminder also for the future. It tells us to you know to tell everyone because you know in the camp in the main gate of the camp we have the biggest key in the world as like a symbol.

[00:06:46]this symbol it to tell us like to you know us ourself as Palestinians and the world that we have rights and we should not give up these rights at all. It means that there are still houses are not opened yet. It means that we have been deprived from our uh rights, our freedom. And this is the meaning of the key. It's not just like a piece of iron for us. It's more than that. It's something that always keeps us on track.

[00:07:15]not even like you know get too involved with the life that we have you know we we have also issues like like any place so that's beside the occupation itself >> and despite the occupation >> exactly exactly so and this is to remind us that we have something and we should never forget and as they always you know kept saying statements like ah the old generation will die the new generation will forget this is the statements that they keep saying about us as >> the strategy. Yeah.

[00:07:46]>> Yes. But this is they were like totally mistaken in that every generation >> now is more connected to their land than even before even though that you are never been there but we still you know having this connection inherited actually through blood stories and uh as it is.

[00:08:04]>> Yeah. I see the the land is part of the identity and DNA. It's like really like you know every single time I think of my home in Jerusalem >> I think of that stranger as who settler who's living my life even knocking on my door.

[00:08:22]>> Yeah.

[00:08:22]>> Taking off my shoes and sleeping on my bed and enjoying the freedom that God supposed to provide for us. This is every time I think of you know my home in Jerusalem like and someone is literally living our life while we have been thrown in refugee camps like deprived from every human rights living in poverty suffering and they did not get enough from just kicking us or uprooting us from our home. No, they chased us to these places and also start killing us in these refugee camps as well.

[00:08:52]>> Yes. And um something that I really want like you know listeners to to sit with is that IDA did not begin as a ton of concrete you know and uh it began with the tents around like 94 of them. Uh because as you were sharing before like everyone including the United Nations uh treated the exile as a matter of weeks.

[00:09:22]Uh but those weeks became years and years became generations and so families uh started building it and um I remember uh you sharing even with the with the wall and the the relationship of for example of uh the Palestinians there and the paintings on the wall, you know. Um I remember you sharing something like um the refusal there was this refusal to build and refusal to even to do artism on the wall because it was always like this is not supposed to become beautiful. This is not supposed you know to last you know this is something temporary and um could you share a little bit about that story of like it's not supposed to become beautiful.

[00:10:19]>> Sure. So first in regards of the concrete houses. So this thing you know first of all once we had the tents like the the honora which is the agency of the United Nation by the way >> like established a camp that called Ida and other camps in the 1950 >> which means that we had two years living in the you know basically in the nowhere as they say it like once they asked like no one like actually speak speaks about this period basically like that's two years >> almost seems like it was always like it's not two days it's like two years where people lived as I always like asked my my grandfather in this two years what happened like >> what were we you were doing no no services nothing what and you didn't have a househ there is no one like it takes you like in their house as well because there is no actually houses as well >> so what happened so during these two years like they lived in caves in mountains whatever they found or like they used to the leaves of the trees during this time and my grandfather said the coldest winter ever was in these two years the why they have no shelter they have no roof above them so that's was the coldest in his whole life so then later the UN came and rented the land that we the camps like from the localians they rented the lands for a few years first like in one year two years but after a while they rented it for 99 years which which told us like what's really happening like why you're renting this land for 99 years but you're telling us it's temporary and there is the decision 194 which is the right of return or converation if you if you as a Palestinians don't want to return by yourself >> but nothing happened this decision and other hundred of decisions never been accomplished or achieved but it's been written and agreed by everyone so that's a thing in the 1950 they started providing the Palestinian stints and gathering them in places so they come and eat and to find like some kind of shelters upon their head. So that's where the Palestinians started gathering in these areas cuz they start providing like basic food like flowers and stuff where there was nothing during that time. That's how the camps were created >> like where the people they were urged or they have the need to to find food as what happened in Gazda like >> so then once they start gathering they start having like more like a community and in Ida camp as you mentioned it's like more than like 20 like 30 actually villages and cities like that they came uh to this place which is different backgrounds different uh you Uh like there are like from the cities, the villages like there are like bids, farmers like and this is also like diversity in one small place you know like you came you your whole life living in a like kind of lifestyle and once it changed and you're like in a mix with you don't know how to deal how what's their traditions how they act. So this was like something also different. Then in the 1960 uh they started providing the Palestinians like in the camps like such kind of cement shelters actually cement like uh and said no we are not going to live in these uh houses or like shelters that you're giving us. They look so permanent for us so we don't want them.

[00:14:03]>> Yeah. So they rejected the idea of actually living in like kind of like more like cement uh shelters. Then in the 1967 that was like you know which we what happened was the nexa.

[00:14:18]>> Yeah.

[00:14:18]>> So we have nakba and then naka. Nakba means catastrophe while naka in Arabic means losing hope.

[00:14:25]So this is the turning point where the prestinians started to accept those kind of cement shelters. And then until the 1994 which is the OS agreement that killed the last you know hope like you know of return during that period. So we will start changing and building their houses by themselves like you know why because they choose to live in dignity.

[00:14:47]They choose uh that you know like it's it's more than 60 years during that time were enough to move from shelters to have something appropriate like you know to stay in.

[00:14:57]>> Yeah. Uh that's the thing that's how we shifted from this to this uh like shelters and then to the houses that we are having now. It's that sounds or seems to be more permanent right now.

[00:15:10]>> Yeah.

[00:15:10]>> So, >> and how do you as a Palestinian born and raised there? How do you hold to you know both things at once like the need to you know to build or to search for you know resources or you know to kind of like build something more permanent let's say and at the same time without never letting go you know of the the idea and the belief of returning to the village. village you actually own.

[00:15:48]>> So I don't see any contradiction in that actually. Uh we need to live in dignity.

[00:15:54]We we need to urge to build and that does not mean that we forget our rights and human rights but we just can't sit and cry in the corners and waiting help from others >> because it does not work. We have seen that. So we uh we have the also the urge to build to not like to I don't want to say to have a like a normal life because nothing is normal there but at least to make it normal.

[00:16:19]>> Yeah.

[00:16:20]>> But at the same time we still are asking for our rights our human rights our freedom and everything that related to our cause. So like living in a shelter or in a bar like or a permanent house does not stop me of asking for uh my own rights basically.

[00:16:38]>> Yeah.

[00:16:38]>> Even though it's like you know uh I would live in a place I would love it but I will never forget my you know displaced place or the place that I was forced to leave or stolen from me. So that >> and in the center you keep like I I saw you keep doing a lot of uh I I I almost don't want to say education because I feel that um those children don't even need that because again it's on your body it's on your it's on you as well but you have been doing a lot of work to like um that's it so so that they don't settle in a way like so that they you know they navigate this of building uh your life with dignity but at the same time uh always with you know your eyes on uh the liberation >> like uh of course like you're right that it's in their blood but we still we need to why because there is a systematic way to ignore these students why because they are not allowed to learn about their history in their schools.

[00:17:46]>> Yeah. Like imagine the whole years of your school you don't know anything even about Nikkba >> because this is goes against their you know narrative.

[00:17:56]>> Yes. Oh, you you're not you don't know anything like if your grandfather did not pass you the story, you will never know anything at schools because part of the conditions uh they are not allowed um to teach about this because they consider it as a hate speech. It's like what is hate about your own history that you are being displaced, killed, uh arrested and like your place was stolen.

[00:18:22]No, you are not allowed even to learn it. Like I was shocked once I looked at the this is also recent in the last 10 years basically I was looking at the history books I was like where where are we in these places okay let's say we are not still worth of history >> but byity what does it say >> what is it >> by out of curicity what does it say the >> I don't know it says about the Argentine and >> South Africa like anything else except Palestine like every place in the world except I was like okay it's nice to Oh, but what about our own history?

[00:18:56]>> I was like, okay, let's not consider it as a history. And we were present any other book, >> nothing related to Palestine. So that's why we had as like the youth in the camp the you know the urge to teach and to educate and to you know keep the narrative uh continuous like with the generation after generation. So you know like in the camp the the first generation almost died like we maybe have one or two from that's it >> from the so and now we are depending on the second and the third so we have to keep this narrative alive for me like the the occupation now >> they don't really care much I I believe about the narrative in the world now they have been exposed and everyone knew about what they're doing now they're working on changing the narrative within in the Palestinians themselves they are letting us feel that we are we have the fault that we are existing as Palestinians they want us to feel that we are a burden in this place and to let us give up of our own narrative and everything just this is what they are working right now they don't really care much about the world why yeah the reputation because it has been exposed so they're now attacking the like the narrative within the Palestinians themselves And uh like they want us to feel that yeah this is uh it's all your fault like what what did like some people actually like I know but they start having you know what what I think we are the reason like the reason of what >> what what did you do I don't know just like I asked them what what did you do actually to say this about yourself >> and he said I don't know look around you like everything is against us I like stop doing this something >> exactly so this is the thing that they want us to feel >> they want us also to feel that we are isolated related they they they think they keep saying us look the world does not care about you we are doing whatever we want so like in the psychology like if you isolate the victim you can actually really like win against it basically >> so that's what they're doing they're trying to isolate us they're trying to change our narrative within ourself they're trying to let us give up our own narrative that's why it's very important to keep it alive so as you said okay it's inherited But we need to make it more uh like you know enhanced.

[00:21:20]>> Yeah.

[00:21:20]>> As we say.

[00:21:21]>> Yeah.

[00:21:22]>> To stay more and like to because >> right now the occupation are doing kind of systematic thing which is they want us to believe that the right of return is not just impossible. It's out of dictionary now. So they why and how?

[00:21:39]Because they're creating they're you know they can't kill all the Palestinians. So what they have done is killing the life of the Palestinians.

[00:21:46]Now, if you want to go to another city, it takes us almost like which is 20 30 minutes or it takes more than 6 hours between the Palestinian cities with they with their like daily attacks with like night invasion and also like the checkpoints everywhere the humiliation at the checkpoints and like you know like once I went to Ramallah another city next to Bethlehem it's almost like 50 minutes far away like if the it took me 7 hours. Yeah, I hated Ramallah, >> you know. I was like, then I was like, why I hated Ramallah? So, I fell in their trap basically. I fell in their psychological trap. Ramallah is a very nice city. But I hated Ramallah because the way to it, it kills you.

[00:22:29]>> Yeah.

[00:22:30]>> Like you're just standing sitting there without anything. You you see soldiers in front of you just checking their Instagram or reals and you are just waiting there with come and search me do nothing at least, you know. So they want us to feel that the normal life is not even valid to let this is a way to to let us not even think about the human rights or about now many think oh I wish if the way is opened that's it I wish if there is no checkpoints between the cities so you know like they make it like very like suffocated so to make the Palestinians to have like their dreams limited Yeah. It's almost like uh to make you instead of like dreaming about for example your right of liberation and your human rights, you just for now you just dreaming about for example living either you know that's that's what they're trying to do and that's many unfortunately fell in this trap. I sometimes I don't blame because myself >> it's human >> I myself I was like I don't I don't I hate from Allah like once I said this I was like immediately I was like why did I say that >> it's not why should why did I say it so I felt in such kind of a trap so which is this is something that they're doing in every single day like not like in every single moment it's happening to let us actually doubt our own narrative and doubt even ourselves and that's why it's very important you know to remind ourselves and to remind others about the situation even if it is to not make it normalized and to not even think of it in a normal way. It's always I always say you should be actually aware because awareness brings anger and anger brings change. If you are just okay having it normally without having this anger thoughts you it's going to be like as it is and that's the thing >> and by staying uh in I think that um like the wall I think something is reading about Palestine and something else was really like being there it's I feel you have to unlearn the world because things don't function you know the way you learned and things that for any person on earth it's not even like for western or outsiders also for Palestinians it's not acceptable you know it's just like anyone would say like what the hell you know and um I think that the first thing I understood with my body and not just my mind you know like felt in beyond reading and learning about it was the the wall. Exactly. For the reasons you were saying because we were taking the Palestinian transports and to go from one city to the other, for example, from Bethlehem to Ramla, you know, we were in tracks that that Yeah. that even had like there was no roads in there.

[00:25:41]They were just trying to make the best Exactly. to reach there.

[00:25:45]>> Exactly. That's Yeah. And you were talking now about the and and all of that like the the watchtowers, the settlements that you can see, you know, uh on the hills and um the checkpoints and all of that. And you were talking about the psychology of occupation of like what you know all of these that when you grow up surrounded by all of these like the you know your movement is is limited um your time like I understand the frustration because time is life it's like you are just making me waste you know time uh from your uh perspective uh and by not only by being with these children and young people at IDA but also what you studied like what does these you know the wall all of the surroundings the checkpoints the watchtowers even the limitations of water and stuff that we learned with you does to a child growing up in there >> what does it do with a child >> yeah to like to the next generation you know, >> so basically like as a child, you know, I I remember myself growing up uh in the camp. It was it was I don't actually recall any recall any like memory from a normal childhood. Basically, it's all what is you know stuck in my head running uh killing blood seeing your friends dead next to you. So like growing I saw like the wall from the beginning of my life as well >> and the checkment. So and somehow you think it's this is this is life like once you came up once you were born in a place like this from like day one you think okay >> it's like I have this area and >> then this is life this is something like once you grow once we used to go to the schools we carried in our bags like the burden actually not just the books of our life as children so and I don't think that we had like a normal one because like usually the kids there like and their mothers like don't allow them to go to play because the fear that they have all the time like you mothers spend their lives waiting on windows just once they send their child to buy something >> outside you know like very like few meters >> they stay on windows like doors like to wait them to come back because >> the the option of losing and dying and and like kidnapped it's always there so growing as children there it's like you Um I don't know like with their like mentality psychology like everything for them is different. So imagine you you are born in a prison like someone was born in a prison. This is exactly what happened to the new generation.

[00:28:44]>> They are born in this new prison and they are forced to adopt the life in it and to keep going and they learn things they shouldn't learn. They learn how to run from uh tear gas. They learn how to differentiate between the sound of the bullet or like the the pump or the tea.

[00:29:03]Like this is something they shouldn't learn at all. They should learn how to sing, how to play, how to enjoy life.

[00:29:10]But in Palestine or like they learn something they shouldn't be in at all.

[00:29:16]So and this also like effecting on our choices like not the freedom is not just like as we speak once we say freedom of movement no also freedom of choices for me like I I wanted children but I always think should I bring like in this place this is not my choice now it's like out of my choice that this always in my head like I I wouldn't bring someone to live the life I lived at least so and this is another way of controlling our life, controlling our restriction as like this is how you know we now think the third generation and the fourth generation.

[00:29:53]This is always in our minds should we but of at the same time we say but it's our existence is resistance.

[00:29:59]>> Exactly.

[00:30:00]>> So this is the contradiction thoughts that we have because we don't even have a choice and we don't have actually like kind of a way like to control over our life. While you know the children once they grow and they see the world they think this is part of their life and there is nothing be beyond it. So that's why you always try to show them.

[00:30:22]We are always trying to tell them no >> that's where the world ends.

[00:30:24]>> Exactly. This is like something like you know if you are born in a prison like the the cave mens that uh they think that's the life you know that the philosophical >> Yeah. Yeah. They say okay that's the life just a reflection of the light but once they turn they thought okay there is something more than just reflection of a light this is exactly here you will never recognize you're in a prison until you leave it by the way I myself like I I knew ever like I I live in a prison but uh in my whole life I didn't see the ocean like I saw the soldiers more than seeing the oceans or the sea like as a normal person but once I left Palestine for once which is I went to Jordan and I saw the freedom of movement and that was my first time seeing the ocean in the age of 27. Imagine like you are from since your childhood you just hear about the sea >> you like you you think about it >> and it's not far >> it is just like few kilometers in some places in Palestine you can smell it yeah >> you smell the humidity of it and some places you can even see it from far far away if you're into buildings but you can't reach it >> and once you reach once I reached the I the first time I went to the Jordan and I saw the sea this was like I you know I I usually we don't have tears not because we are strong because we you know we lived in a place that always like you know sadness and like we we have a lot of losing and stuff. So you don't even have like this tears you have it inside but you can't have it physically. Uh like whether women or men it's the same thing by the way. And then once I went to this, I saw the sea for the first time. I cried like I had tears. I was like why I'm doing this? Like I did not cry for something bigger than that. I'm just having tears now. And this is because it's like you know within David like why we don't have this life? Why we why the restians can't have uh such a normal life like this? Why all why we should have been throwing all this and not just having easily if I want to go I have to I can go just in no time. Mhm.

[00:32:38]>> So when and then I was shocked like why no one stopping us and as I'm here in Bugal I'm still having the same thing you know I was like why is no one stopping us like is it that is it normal like you know that >> no one is no checkpoints nothing you just like go walk through like drive and no one cares >> so then I realized that uh the value of freedom is really like you know what like you know it's really valuable Like one of the most valuable thing in the world is to have a freedom of movement or just freedom in general.

[00:33:13]>> That's why like I I realized why the Palestinians are dying for it.

[00:33:17]Palestinians are dying for it not because they like this. No, because they know the value of the freedom.

[00:33:23]>> Yeah.

[00:33:24]>> That's all what I recognized once I left Palestine for once. And uh you know I looked uh I lived two buildings behind the sea. So when I came back to the West Bank, every little two buildings I see, I was looking the sea behind. I was like, where is it? You know, like I lived in this illusion. But yet I wouldn't leave the country. I wouldn't leave my land despite everything.

[00:33:44]Despite the fact that we in every single day, we consider it a surviving day.

[00:33:49]despite the fact that I look at the place where I live IDA camp as a graveyard of dreams and uh and also like a symmetry for you know like a factory of pain but at the same time we look at it a yard of aspiration at the same time we believe that our existence is one of the main tools of resistance that does not mean that we are romantic making the brain romanticized not at all nothing but this is we have no other option.

[00:34:19]>> Yeah.

[00:34:20]>> And we have to continue our life. We have to carry on with this way and to live uh the way we should be because they are depriving us from everything but we are rejecting that they are depriving us from our humanity >> and that's what we are trying to keep by living normally or trying to live normally under such kind of circumstances. So >> yeah, you were mentioning um the sea and also in the the last question I I briefly talked about water, but I would really like uh you to like walk us through, you know, the access uh to water um what really looks like, >> you know, in before I just came here like to like there was zero drop of water in my house. I was like I I told my wife we're going to like have a bath in Jordan. So I was like what? It's like yeah the lack of water is a systematic way that you know because we have like the resources the water resources in the West Bank is enough to make >> it is >> the old Egyptian like have efficiency with water. the whole you know like 80 millions but according to the agreements and stuff they are stealing our own waters and selling it us back and not yet and they are actually like limiting the timing of this like they >> they decide when the water comes what >> exactly it comes like sometimes twice per month sometimes once per month that's why we have a lot of water tanks to you know save it and just like you know to to survive the weeks not the whole month you know Like I like if you go at home at your home like to the bathroom or to have a shower you have 1 minute and then the whole family will not like get out like you're wasting the I was like what I didn't even take off my clothes. So this is something you know we have like if you you think 100 time about washing your cloth you think because you need to drink that's the first you know thing and if you would like to buy like a tank outside like tank you know that's the uh mobile tank as they call them it's really costly it cost you like almost like half your salary so which is insane >> so where you can't even go to any places so one of the biggest issue that you have especially in summer >> Mhm. Mhm.

[00:36:39]>> is the the water lacks. And not only this, you know, in the camps and actually not outside of the camps, the Israeli soldiers sometimes and they have videos by themselves publishing that once they want to have fun, they just shoot the water tanks just like you know >> and the air conditioner.

[00:36:55]>> Exactly. To make it more uh difficult to live in these circumstances which is insane.

[00:37:01]>> Yeah. Imagine that you know like you you having saved few water for the rest of and just you lose it out of nowhere. So, and in the winter they make the electricity hard to reach, you know, every pl time like they have something to hurt you with basically.

[00:37:18]And also the the tubes you you showed me like the proportion of like a tube that serves pro for example a settlement you know and a tube like this um not exaggerating like really really tight to serve a whole building with you know four or five families in it.

[00:37:40]>> Exactly. So that's uh that's a thing.

[00:37:43]It's like very small and in comparison with like how they have it, it's they have like like 10 times bigger than our water pipes. So and uh once the water comes, it comes in a very weak uh pressure. So we have motors to increase the pressure and to fill the water tanks and you have few hours. If you missed turning on your motor during this >> few hours that you have during the whole month, >> we're going to you have to wait for the next month.

[00:38:07]>> Yeah. So this is something and we can't have wells in the camp because the infrastructure is all built in a timber.

[00:38:13]>> Yeah.

[00:38:14]>> So and also we can't dig for looking for natural resources because this the Israeli doesn't allow us to do even though even if it's below your house it's not used.

[00:38:24]>> It's there they >> exactly because they >> they own the the soil the air >> the air.

[00:38:30]>> This is according to the OA agreement.

[00:38:32]So that's uh why you even can dig for your own water resources. So this is the way like >> or planned.

[00:38:39]>> Exactly. This is the way like the walls behind you, the the checkpoints and everything. And as you said like in the camp there are seven watching towers.

[00:38:47]You feel that you are watched even your home. You feel that there's a soldier in your room, another in your like salon like just you know the way to tell you we are there on your shoulders. We are watching you and we are overwheling you.

[00:38:59]This is the way and all this for one reason to displace you from this country.

[00:39:05]>> Yeah. to kick you out from there. As I said, they can't kill all of the Bins even though they had done 80 almost 70,000 were killed in Gaza. But so as a other way, they just kill your life.

[00:39:19]Yeah. Kill everything related to it. And um that's one of the biggest issue that we have with water actually.

[00:39:26]>> Yeah, that that was what I was going to ask like what's the message, you know, in those kind of attacks. It's it's really like what you were saying in terms of making you feel um you don't belong or a burden or that it must be my fault or you know for you to to leave uh right to make it I don't know.

[00:39:48]>> Yeah. Exactly. That's all like the thing you know there is one thing that they believe in. Do you want to uproot all the Palestinians in any way? in any means like now in Bethlehem we have no like we have very limited spaces they're looking every single day like what we're sitting right now speaking but they are now stealing the lands like in this moment they are like seizing like as much as they can from the lands like it's not just about you know killing and like then no it's even more than that it's the lands >> that's the whole thing >> and the resources like the lines they they draw around the you know even the water spots for example In Bethlehem now there is zero greens like we don't like there is the one last place is called Solomon pools and uh they're trying to make it more like religious thing but it has been built by a guy is called Solomon like 1,000 years ago has nothing to do with prophet you know but they said oh the name is similar so let's have it uh let's make it you know so to make to give it as a pretext >> to take it and that's the last green thing in Bethlehem and like uh one week ago they said we need to take it even though it's part of the Palestinians you know in school of like culture and >> uh but but no >> so this is how they're doing in every single day.

[00:41:08]>> Yeah. And um something I I mentioned in the beginning uh while we you were showing the camp uh the tear gas came and um I watched the children starting to to run um and and it's almost like uh again it's it's not normal but it it's usual like they already kind of I could see that we were the ones lost but they you could see that they could they just by the sounds that we are hearing uh they could understand where the army was you know and where to run to and all of that and so uh I is the most tear gas placed on earth uh every person u has been exposed to it uh you grow up with this and um so what does it do even to like again kind of like in a psychology side of it, you know, to um when every game has to, you know, to has to begin by deciding where or even if you know like everything you do can just be interrupted, you know, uh during your day.

[00:42:31]>> So yeah, like once the tear gas has been shut, everything is going to be interrupted. Of course, you're going to just like start looking for a safe spot where you can't smell anything. And uh >> and also they they like uh sorry to interrupt like I just remember that um you also explained that you know even like in Europe you have laws of for the tear gas of like it's only used to you know demobilize big masses and has to be in super open air and stuff like that and there it's like a huge amount in a very very tiny street like it's >> I had a friend he came from France and you know like they were doing some protest there and they were shot by Taz and he was one one of them. He said once he was in the camp and this by a sudden they start shooting tas and he said like >> what I smelled in France was a perfume you know compared to this one it's totally different >> you can't like this thing it affects your breast system nerve system >> and if you smell it for 15 seconds you're going to black out and this could lead to death we lost many people only because of the tear gas like one of them was a woman was called no katamish a lot of taz broke into her house. She couldn't uh run away. She was 50 years, 53 years. She got suffocated and she passed away. And what happened? Did Did they stop shooting? Absolut absolutely not. They did it more and more and more and more. So this is the tear gas. It's a way again like to make life unbearable and to make it like you know and not just this. We don't know what's the long effects of it.

[00:44:10]>> Yeah.

[00:44:11]like we're just being exposed to chemical things and what happens like does it also it effects on the nerves of the like the system the nerve system which is like you're going to get angry like quickly you're going to like act or react in a certain way so that's something that we have >> yeah um uh you I is braided constantly and um but the soldiers not only come through the gate. Um, one of the most documented like Israeli tactics is to move, you know, house to house by breaking to the interior of it uh in by the interior of, you know, the walls between homes basically. And uh you described how they they enter not through the door but by knocking through the walls between homes. Um, and like it's a it's it's I feel it's kind of like naive to to ask, you know, but um besides these and the impact of these on those homes and families, but also besides this, if you could talk a little bit more about all the strategies that uh have been implemented year by year, because for example, one of the things that really scared me. It was the new AI gun machines for example that you know can basically um I don't know confuse you confuse you for someone else and you shot you know and killed and and so all of these tactics uh do you feel like it's not even like if do you feel that are they are becoming more and more aggressive but like what are the things that changed in all of these tactics from last years.

[00:46:11]>> One thing has changed and not even every time it's more aggressive than before.

[00:46:15]>> Yeah, >> that's something like can't be you know this is the thing. every time it's more aggressive, more mentally like you know destroying and uh that's how it becomes and grows every single time within like since actually the Nakba till this day they're always trying to find a new techniques to you know uh kill us with or like to let us actually give up by this which is every time it's insane.

[00:46:40]Yes, that the system that you mentioned was called knock on the wall. So in Gaza they use systems called knock on the rooftop where they have like one rocket in the the last floor. So they kill the people in the last floor as a warning for the others. So like that's very humane of course from them. So and the other thing here in the camps especially started in Nablas by the way in the camp of Nablas >> uh in Balato which is because the houses are really very very close to each other. When once we speak about the Balata camp, it's the same size as Ida, but there are almost 25,000 people in it. No, which is once I went there myself, I was like, what this is like I can't I looked at my camera three times.

[00:47:23]>> Yeah. As a heaven compared to this one, I was like how the people is living there? Even though as a Palestinian, I couldn't actually imagine the life in such camps. So they used it in that place and then they used it in other places. And uh I myself witnessed this one when I was a young. They wanted to arrest our neighbor and like our neighbor is like living exactly like one wall, you know, we lived in the first floor and Israeli just like came through our wall and they entered our room where me, my sister and my younger brother lived in one, >> you know, room like we were actually uh like very squeezed in a very small room and that was my first oh that was the the fe like the one of the worst uh thing that I witnessed in in Ida basically.

[00:48:12]>> Mhm.

[00:48:12]>> Which is how like uh they enter to your room not through the doors just like from a wall outside you know like in order to get to your neighbors which is insane by the way. So I I like it took me actually like 4 hours or even more to understand this is not a nightmare.

[00:48:30]>> Like I asked a kid asking is this real?

[00:48:33]Is this real? Like am I dreaming or what? Because like even grown person in this time will go like crazy seeing that. Imagine just kids you know like in their 9 and 10 years old like seeing such things just like uh armed like and the wall is collapsing. So my brother actually he had like this kind of fear for long that the wall like he was like 6 years almost that the wall is going to collapse on him. So he never slept around the wall. He always slept in the middle for a long time 6 months or even more. So this is one of the ways and then once they did this big hole in our wall and they said and they saw us chill and they said oh it's a mistake then they just left.

[00:49:14]>> So they they left a hole in the wall and another hole in our mentality for this long time. That's why I had you know the the you know the need to help the Palestinians or like the youth or the others uh who are you know in such kind of circumstances or like but it's useless for me. I found it it's not really helpful to bring the psychology or like the methods or techniques from outside and to to make it work in time.

[00:49:43]It does not work at all. I was like what I'm doing here?

[00:49:46]>> Yeah. Because the first thing like to treat a a traumatized person, you should take them outside of the >> the trauma >> of the trauma place or the one who causes them trauma leave the place and the two things are not even related.

[00:49:58]>> Constant trauma.

[00:49:59]>> How come? Exactly. So it's always constant trauma.

[00:50:02]>> So I always you know say it's like imagine you're uh like that you see like a fire in your uh in someone's place and you ask them h what's your lose? I was like it's on still the house on fire.

[00:50:17]How can I know what's my lose? Until it was down. I will know if my lose. I know if I can fix it or not. This is the same situation here in Vistine. The Nakba is not just like one event. It's happening in every single day.

[00:50:29]>> Yeah.

[00:50:29]>> And that's the thing that we are looking and beside this this is one of the ways but they don't use it now luckily. They don't use uh they used to bring a hammer into now they don't do that because they bring bulldozer.

[00:50:44]>> Yeah.

[00:50:44]>> The hammer is not convenient for them anymore like what happened in the engineer and Tulkar.

[00:50:48]>> Yeah.

[00:50:49]>> They don't enter with the hammers. No.

[00:50:51]No. That's an old fashion for them.

[00:50:53]>> They bring the bulldozer and they they >> which is insane what we have seen what happened to the cams. I don't know if the world knows about it or not. The two cams are almost like demolished in in the West Bank. I'm not speaking about Gaza.

[00:51:06]>> Yeah. I guess there's a different total story. So these cams are not even there like they're not standing anymore. So they come like with a bdozer to that house. They like demolish like 10 houses to reach it.

[00:51:18]>> Like what's this exactly? Like there is no what's the explan explanation beyond such action. So every time as I said it's more aggressive and more destruction with the AI weapons like we have lost many people and like in uh every attack they come like someone has to die like the last month I guess during the last month and this month there was like a person uh like he is teaching in Bethlehem is from Hebron he lost his child I don't know if you have heard about this she's 3 years old >> she was in the car and she was shot and the camera showed like No. And another one was trying to bring like gift for his wife. She gave birth for the first that was the first child. He was holding flowers.

[00:52:05]>> Yeah.

[00:52:05]>> Coming back to his wife and he was shot in his head and he died. That was just like few in like cases that happened and as if it's nothing.

[00:52:13]>> Yeah.

[00:52:14]>> You know, as if it's nothing at all there. So >> yeah. Um I Yeah.

[00:52:22]Sorry. I was Yeah.

[00:52:25]um talking I mean I had another question uh for you on on this but uh because I do remember uh I don't know if it was you who said that but it was someone around Ida and Disha um who said like that since you we are born we are dead you know and I uh and I wanted to ask like if you um like How do you if if like in a way you believe it but in a in the sense of like it's not that this gives you uh strength to actually do other things that you know people who are afraid of you know dying or something uh or if you refuse it totally.

[00:53:18]>> Yeah. Basically the the idea behind this notion it's like that once you grow like as I said you are always surrounded by losing by you could be arrested any time killed in any time you could be like displaced any time so it's all the feeling that you live is actually temporary >> mhm >> like even that you live left uh your but still you feel that you are still here for a temporary not just temporary like to come back >> but I feel that happens with relationships like for example the way you know attachment for friends or attachment for >> exactly it's we all we are always very cautious with that we are always very cautious with like to be attached to a friend or someone because it's in our head we could lose them in any certain time so this is also affecting in our relationship relationships with people with the surrounding even with our like belongings as well. So this is something that we do but at the same time we that does not mean that we are losing the hope to continue but no it's in the opposite we carry on despite everything and we are trying to have a life and to create a life as well despite of this actual statement in which is you know that sound >> yeah it's uh you are saying that that you are all super cautious and that I'm just thinking about how at the same time uh my whole experience was that you are all super loving and super you know with a lot of hospitality and actually in the other hand really become friends with people who are you know allies and that you you meet and almost feels like it's a friend for life who is who is there you know [clears throat] >> exactly >> um and the hospitality in Palestine is not I just I felt it was not just courtsy you know it's like um it's it's almost like um identity and the position you know and um just um kind of like to to finish and also I don't I I would keep you here but >> um but what does it mean uh to open your home for example like you you did to us for a stranger you know from the sides um in in such a a besided place because for it's it's just like it was I think that for someone who is an ally and who was visiting and all of that it was super emotional actually like this mix of you you were just in one of the most besed places on earth and at the same time that moment felt like uh frozen in time or in circumstances. It's like now we are here like all eating from the same plates and and and like living like it's like this they cannot take from us you know like this moment that we are all here having this meal together and uh sharing with you know with people who just you know believe and and and are allies and and are just in in this like this community.

[00:56:40]Yes. Yeah. That's actually you know like the idea of giving or hospitality here that we have it's something that we were just in that also we inherited by the way it has been long time ever before the what happened and they always say like they they have a saying that the one who lacks something he can give but it's the our case it's the opposite. We are giving the thing that we are lacking as well. We are always like you know this is the thing that made us like strong as a community like we have the the knowledge of giving I like once I give that's I feel life basically this is our door or our gate to feel the actual meaning of life we have to give we have to help we have to be bridges for others we have to welcome anyone no matter what to to tell or like to tell yeah we don't have to tell actually about but to show that there is a human human aspect of our life.

[00:57:38]>> There is like not only like this shooting and stuff and that is h we don't want it to take our mind. We are trying to create another word is a and a way to defend our mentalities and a way to protect what is like lift from our humanity to be against what is happening. So this is our way to stand in this place. This is our because we always believe of giving. I give to someone so they give to others like so they bait for it. That's how we make the community strong and hospitality for us is not just as you said it's something like part of our you know uh genetics part of our we have to do it we should help because we know like if you help they will actually we don't want the the help back we just have the idea okay help others we don't need something from you >> just you know think of it and help other we don't need anything then that's how the community stays actually connected in delivery base. So like people think the Binas are really welcoming. That's their natural by the way. That's their natural like they're just welcoming anyone because they they once you sit together you will feel okay we're same the same human beings. We have same hopes, same dreams, same thing like the same every everything is similar.

[00:58:55]>> Yeah.

[00:58:56]>> So you will feel that you're out of the time and out of the whole thing even if it's for a bit.

[00:59:02]>> Yeah.

[00:59:02]>> But that's something we need. We don't need always to live under this pressure.

[00:59:06]We need we don't need always to live under like you know fear even though it's embosed in us but we are always trying to encounter it but you know love being so loving and you know like once we say there is we have cautious attachment but that's mean we still love >> we still have dreams we still have hopes we still actually like uh you know we we would love to see the world and the word we'd love them to see us normally you know like we don't want to be shown always in the news as a breaking news or like subtitle. We want them to see that we have dreams, we have hopes, we have we are not just numbers.

[00:59:44]>> We are human beings like and we we shouldn't be in these debates that to prove that but that's how naturally it is being. So yeah >> really shukran for making the time for being here and for all the work you do at as well and I really hope to see you there >> inshallah amaz.

[01:00:05]>> Thank you. [music] You're welcome.

[01:00:07]>> At Unskip Humanity, we believe in storytelling as a path for collective liberation. [music] And at Yala, every voice is a reminder, a reminder that, you know, Palestinians keep [music] creating, keep uh resisting, keep uh living and fighting for their [music] liberation.

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