Christians Never Expected This From Muslim | Mansur | Speakers Corner

本站添加: 2026-05-16

[00:00:00]God the husband called Shiva.

[00:00:03]>> God the wife called Parvati. And God the son called Ganesh.

[00:00:08]>> Ganesh. Ganesha had his head chopped off and replaced by an elephant head.

[00:00:13]Shivvati and Ganesh one.

[00:00:18]>> God. God. God. Husband wife distinct.

[00:00:22]Let's start counting. How many gods? One or three.

[00:00:25]>> So the best.

[00:00:27]>> Three. Well done. you know exactly how to count. So when it comes to every other concept of God, you are willing to count the way we should count. But only when it comes to Christian concept of God, when you realize counting will make three gods, you say, "I'm sorry, I cannot count."

[00:00:52]>> Uh what's your name?

[00:00:53]>> Paul.

[00:00:55]>> Christian concept of God. Is God merciful? Yes.

[00:00:59]>> Good. Before the world was created, >> God existed as as what? Father.

[00:01:04]>> Son Hulpre.

[00:01:06]>> Was he merciful at that point?

[00:01:08]>> Yes.

[00:01:09]>> Okay. Who did he show mercy?

[00:01:11]>> Um, yeah, that's good.

[00:01:14]>> Well, I don't suppose he did.

[00:01:15]>> Sorry.

[00:01:15]>> I don't suppose he did, but only >> So now you concede. So now serve as a subject.

[00:01:20]>> So now you concede by intellectual reasoning.

[00:01:23]>> I can see that.

[00:01:24]>> Thank you. So now let's no let's establish the point then you don't need an object like the creation to be merciful. Was he a creator before he created creation?

[00:01:35]>> He's always been the creator.

[00:01:37]>> So now you're saying you don't need the object. So you're considering again that you don't need the creation the object for him to be creator. May I may I clarify this point? Was was Christian God concept of God? Because there's only one God. We may differ in the concept.

[00:01:52]So we're not worshiping. Sure. Never mind. Was he a creator before there was any creation?

[00:01:58]>> Yes.

[00:01:59]>> Okay. So you are now conceding again.

[00:02:01]You don't need the object. You if you have the attribute or the quality of being the creator, this is sufficient.

[00:02:08]>> Until he created, we never knew that.

[00:02:10]>> It's not about us knowing. Was he?

[00:02:12]>> No, it is.

[00:02:12]>> No. No. Was he?

[00:02:14]>> So when God shows his mercy to you, >> oh my friend Paul, it's not about whether I know or not. Whether he is in his ontology, his reality, In his reality, if he's a creator, Paul, >> until God showed us, we wouldn't have clue.

[00:02:28]>> It's not about us.

[00:02:30]>> Is he a creator?

[00:02:31]>> Of course he is.

[00:02:32]>> Good. He's a creator without the creation.

[00:02:34]>> Wouldn't have known until he shows it.

[00:02:36]>> So, he's not a creator until he shows it.

[00:02:38]>> No, we wouldn't have known. You missed a bit. We >> human beings.

[00:02:41]>> So, let me ask you >> before you ask. Before you ask, Paul, >> what you said is Allah is all loving.

[00:02:46]Well, I know.

[00:02:47]>> I didn't say he's all loving.

[00:02:48]>> All loving.

[00:02:49]>> I didn't say he's all loving.

[00:02:50]>> You don't say he's not all loving.

[00:02:51]>> No, I didn't say he's not all loving. I say God is Alad is the most loving.

[00:02:56]There's can be no one more. SO ALL HIS attributes are like this. The greatest, the most.

[00:03:01]>> If he's the most loving, how does he display that?

[00:03:04]>> Okay, God, as I said, does not need to act like displaying is an action. He doesn't need to I'm I'm just really telling you, you'll consider to this point as well. He doesn't need an object to express his mercy, to express his anger, to express his love, to express his creative power. For him to be called creator, merciful, loving, and someone who is wrathful.

[00:03:30]>> No, it's not about how I know. It's irrelevant how whether I know it or not.

[00:03:33]God exists even if I didn't exist. God exists with his qualities. Even if I didn't exist.

[00:03:39]>> Exist if you don't know.

[00:03:40]>> No, no. Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, listen.

[00:03:43]Even if human beings did not exist, God still exists with his attributes. The attributes was not given by anyone to him. He possesses those attributes independently inherently.

[00:03:55]>> So how does he how do you know he's all loving? How do you know he's how I know?

[00:04:01]How I know is when God tells me what I understand by looking at his creation.

[00:04:07]>> How do you see his attributes?

[00:04:08]>> So So no, no, I haven't seen all his attributes. No, but you you know of his attributes cuz he shows you.

[00:04:13]>> So, so what I'm establishing what I'm establishing never know who God is unless he shows you unless he >> If I didn't exist, how would I even know? The moment I am in existence, I know there is a creator because I am not self-sufficient. My my self being dependent is an evidence that there is a god already. I don't need anyone to tell me THE FACT THAT I am in existence and not self-sufficient. There is a being that is necessary that created me. So in the Christian concept of God as we talked about the father, son and the holy spirit, we were discussing about communication and you're discussing about me expressing my love to my wife and vice versa and so on. Look, let me let me continue this point.

[00:04:54]>> We we as human beings, we are not absolute. So for example, you can stop being loving and you have really no love for that individual because what they have done, right? Do you love Hitler?

[00:05:06]>> No, >> I don't. Why would I?

[00:05:08]>> Exactly. Exactly. You can stop loving someone. It's possible because of what they have done.

[00:05:13]>> Choose to stop.

[00:05:14]>> Good. Can the Christian concept of God can he choose to stop loving?

[00:05:24]>> He choose to stop loving. Depends what you define as love.

[00:05:29]>> You know what love is.

[00:05:30]>> Hating what hate God hates. Love what God loves.

[00:05:32]>> Yeah. You don't love Hitler as you've demonstrated already. So what we say is God has attributes that it's something that is not you can't just strip away from him like what Christianity has done they have stripped his attributes of knowledge his power his ability I'll explain to you how >> when God who is all knowledgeable became a human being was that human being all knowledgeable yes and no cannot be yes or no Not because do you do you believe in contradiction?

[00:06:07]>> According to his divine nature all knowing still >> so he knew his human nature.

[00:06:11]>> So as a divine he knew >> as a divine he knew as a as a as a he's got two natures. So his human nature which he didn't know and he chose not to know.

[00:06:20]>> So Jesus was one person or two person.

[00:06:23]>> Obviously one person >> right. So one person is both divine and human.

[00:06:27]>> Yes. Two natur.

[00:06:28]>> So his knowledge so his so when it comes to knowledge does he have two compartments? one ignorant and one knowledgeable.

[00:06:34]>> No, one chosen and one not. So he he chooses not to know, >> but he chooses to know. So he has a choice.

[00:06:41]>> As a person, Jesus, >> does he know when the world's going to come to an end?

[00:06:46]>> I know the I know the question you're going to ask >> and the answer.

[00:06:50]>> It's about declaration. Does he It's not about declaration.

[00:06:53]>> Does he declare to know?

[00:06:54]>> It's not about declaration. You you you learned this from Christian apologetics.

[00:06:58]We don't really think critically because the verse says I will show you how it doesn't mean that >> about that day and hour. No one knows.

[00:07:08]>> I've heard the answer.

[00:07:08]>> Does that mean no one declares or no one knows?

[00:07:11]>> So So if you think about um >> Did you hear my question?

[00:07:15]>> I'll give you an answer.

[00:07:16]>> Okay.

[00:07:16]>> So if you think about the wedding feast and you think about the the father >> finds a bride for his his son.

[00:07:25]>> Yeah.

[00:07:25]>> They go they make a declaration. This is what's going to happen. And they come back and they build another home, a house, a room onto the father's house.

[00:07:34]The father declares when that house is built when the wedding will take place.

[00:07:39]>> Sure.

[00:07:39]>> Now, the son will know, but this is it's down to the father to declare.

[00:07:44]>> Does the son know?

[00:07:44]>> So is excuse me.

[00:07:45]>> Does the son know?

[00:07:46]>> Yes, cuz he's finished the building.

[00:07:48]>> Okay. So, he knows what he doesn't declare, right?

[00:07:50]>> But it's not for him to declare it to the father. It's the father's authority that declares it.

[00:07:55]>> No problem. Hence when Jesus said >> no problem no problem but you haven't answered my question >> he defers back to the father >> but you haven't addressed my problem >> the statement starts like this about that day and hour no one knows >> Odin >> you remember the word Greek word Odin >> right does that mean no one declares or no hasn't declared or no one really know not know >> it's not declared >> so no one knows means no one hasn't declared yet is that what you're saying >> it's the sun that hasn't declared yet >> excuse me excuse Paul Paul >> think same word is used for everyone and no one for angels for the father and the son four different categories same word so the same word in one sentence cannot be linguistically taken to mean different things for different people I'm sure you know that very well good let's start with no one of that day and hour No one knows. So now let's understand the father.

[00:08:57]>> Please please please include the father.

[00:08:59]>> Please can I can I finish?

[00:09:01]>> Is that encompassing? Does that include the father?

[00:09:03]>> Can I finish? I'm I'm answering if if you're allow if if allow because first my friend my friend I'm about to answer.

[00:09:15]Use your brains and you'll listen because because he's not allowing me to finish my answer. The answer is this.

[00:09:22]The statement didn't finish there. The statement starts with a general statement and then and can I finish my answer? Thank you. The statements with a generalization. No one knows and then gives specific exceptions.

[00:09:40]That's the full statement. Not have a statement, full statement. If I say no one is here clever except you, that's my full statement. It doesn't mean you're not clever because I've already within my statement accepted you make made an exception that you are clever apart from everyone else. Likewise that statements with four different categories. No one knows the hour when it's going to happen.

[00:10:06]>> So that's general not even the angels.

[00:10:09]So now we have can I can I finish can I finish can I finish my statement? You can really come back and push back with all your arguments after I finish. No one knows the hour, not even the angels.

[00:10:22]Now I'm going to ask you specific questions and not even the son. The only exception is here but the father. So the statement finishes with an exception called the father. These three other categories every human being to talk about human being the angels. So the the word odin you say it means to declare and I say it means to know. So let's take say it could mean either right that's logical possibility.

[00:10:49]So what does it mean that because we have to have one meaning for all the four categories. It has to be consistent. So which one is it? Is it to declare? Is it not to know? Let's say you're what it means to declare. So that means is no one declares when the world's going to come to an end. Meaning they know but they don't declare. Is that what really you mean that I know?

[00:11:09]>> You know everyone knows >> you will come like a thief in the night.

[00:11:13]So, so now even in contextual understanding from the very surface, no one knows is a negation. So, it's not about declaration. It's simply saying no one knows. It's better has more explanatory scope and understanding with a comprehension that it means knowledge rather than declaration. Not even the el. So, you mean the angels know but the angels haven't declared it or won't declare. makes no sense contextually because if you give now the declaration to the angels that means all the angels know but they don't declare it and then at the end when it says except the father it will be a contradiction it will make no sense because if the angels already know then why do you make an exception about the father and angels what are what are they to declare I mean how would they even know when we go back to other passages contextually no one actually knows it's not about declaring So contextual meaning what the apologist the Christian apologist only a few of them not their scholarship only Christian scholarship like in speaker corner or online with the theatrics they came up with this response and you now realize this response does not fit the text and the context in any shape or way form it cannot mean declare I've heard this you've heard about this declare but it doesn't fit. So when it comes to even the son doesn't know the early scribes of the manuscripts when they were writing the statement they found the same level of difficulty. How can the son not know the son is supposed to be god? So they actually omitted this phrase we have manuscripts which doesn't have the phrase not even the son because for them of course the son should know they altered the text and omitted it.

[00:13:01]It's well known example of textual criticism in New Testament. So if the son doesn't know and we have other examples then the son cannot be unnowledgeable. If you are ignorant about something now it means you can never be all knowledgeable because an unnowledgeable being can never be ignorant at any time in the future present or in the past. Always knowledgeable. Jesus Christ himself he then established unto us that he is not all knowledgeable. So even if he was all knowledgeable this was my question. How can you have a communication like oh I it's like saying to the father I love you but the father says well I know it already >> let me let me ask you a couple questions >> go ahead >> when you stand before the father >> what are you going to say >> when I stand before God will ask me >> father not god >> there is no such thing as a father >> stand before the father >> what is the father >> my my lord >> when you stand before my lord he's going to ask you a couple of questions What >> he will say to you, >> who do you say my son was?

[00:14:07]>> I would say how can you have a son? You are alhani. You are rich, independent of all needs. Let me let me tell you what my response would be. Because you are holy, you are independent and self-sufficient, free from all needs and wants. It was an insult for you to even be associated with begetting action or having a son or a daughter or grandchildren and so on. So when you say that and you think you're you're right and he says, "What's your name?"

[00:14:37]>> Mansour.

[00:14:37]>> He says, "Mansour, my son, you've missed it."

[00:14:40]>> Miss what?

[00:14:41]>> You've missed it.

[00:14:42]>> Miss what?

[00:14:42]>> Missed what? It was all about missed what?

[00:14:44]>> You've missed my son. You've missed the salvation. You've missed it. What are you going to say, >> son? Son. So I will say I would say I would say, "Look, how is it that you are a being that is self-sufficient?

[00:14:58]You say you have a son. Yes. Thank you so much. I feel quite sorry for you.

[00:15:05]>> You're not You're not engaging with me now. You're being emotional. You're being emotional. You're being emotional.

[00:15:10]>> This is an emotional.

[00:15:11]>> No. No. You're being emotional. Your response is not intellectual level. It's an emotional level. So, let me let me let me finish my response.

[00:15:18]>> Can I finish my response?

[00:15:19]>> I'm here to call you.

[00:15:22]>> Call you to what?

[00:15:23]>> Worshippping. Worshiping a messenger.

[00:15:25]>> To follow >> to what?

[00:15:26]>> To follow the Lord. To follow him.

[00:15:28]>> Follow who?

[00:15:29]>> You got a choice.

[00:15:30]>> Okay. You got a choice now.

[00:15:31]>> So let's let me examine.

[00:15:33]>> No, no. You're preaching. I don't want you to preach.

[00:15:38]>> I've been sent to call you.

[00:15:40]>> Sent by who?

[00:15:41]>> My father to call you.

[00:15:43]>> Is your father the greatest?

[00:15:46]>> Is Jesus the greatest?

[00:15:47]>> Within.

[00:15:48]>> Is Jesus the greatest?

[00:15:50]>> Excuse me.

[00:15:51]>> I am now critiquing. Critiquing. Is Jesus the greatest?

[00:15:56]You will find that out. Sure. Sure. I have a choice. I've rejected Christianity based on what? The intellect that God has given me. Just like I've rejected worshiping a banana, a tripod, or a rat, or a human like yourself. The reason why I reject worshiping creation. Listen. Listen. If you if you if you you know, do you feel sorry for someone worshiping a rat?

[00:16:22]>> Yeah, I probably would.

[00:16:22]>> Why?

[00:16:23]>> Because it'd be stupid.

[00:16:25]>> Oh, you'd be stupid to worship a rat.

[00:16:27]It's okay. It'd be stupid to worship a rat, but not worshiping a Palestinian man.

[00:16:31]>> Um, don't believe you come from Palestine, but there you go.

[00:16:35]>> I don't I don't believe so.

[00:16:36]>> No, no, it's not about I don't believe so.

[00:16:39]>> So now now to deliver a message to >> I want to deliver a message to you.

[00:16:42]>> And I'm saying >> I want to deliver a message to you now.

[00:16:44]I've heard your message >> and so be I want to deliver a message to you.

[00:16:48]>> God of Jesus Christ himself because Jesus Christ in the Bible said I'm going to my God and your God. So even though you are telling me that Jesus is God, but Jesus tells me that he has a God. So I am not going to listen to you.

[00:17:04]>> Excuse me. Listen.

[00:17:05]>> I am not going to listen to you. Nobody.

[00:17:07]>> That's fine. That's fine.

[00:17:08]>> Jesus says he has a god. Anyone who says I have a god cannot be god. Simple and simple. So just imagine you're making it down into >> I'm delivering my message. I've heard your message. Hear my message. God does not have a God. Any human beings that believe that God has a God, they don't even know what they mean by the word God. God is the greatest being. He cannot does not. It makes no sense to have a God. God doesn't worship anyone.

[00:17:40]Jesus worships God. Jesus go in the garden of Gethsemane alone and prays to God.

[00:17:45]>> To his father.

[00:17:46]>> Praise to his God.

[00:17:47]>> To his father.

[00:17:48]>> To his God.

[00:17:49]>> To his father.

[00:17:50]>> He says, "I'm going to my God and your God. What else do you need?

[00:17:53]>> To his father.

[00:17:53]>> Now he says not according to my will but according to your will. So are you saying >> to his father >> brother?

[00:17:59]>> Are you now saying Paul are you now saying Paul one God saying not according to my will but according to your will. So there is there is now >> his father.

[00:18:10]>> There is a conflict of will.

[00:18:12]One God Jesus in your case >> is saying I will listen to what you say because you are the one who is greatest.

[00:18:23]>> So now you have a hierarchy of gods. A god that is less and a god that is greater.

[00:18:31]>> A person cannot in their sane mind critical thinking worship a being that is less and there's something else greater than that. Jesus Christ said, "My father is greater than I."

[00:18:46]So any being says and admits there's a greater being than them. That being is not worthy of worship in any way.

[00:18:57]>> Is your father greater than my father?

[00:18:58]>> My father is not the greatest.

[00:19:01]>> No. No. You say >> God is greater than your father and your father.

[00:19:07]>> Father, your human father greater than you.

[00:19:09]>> In what way? in standing.

[00:19:11]>> Yes.

[00:19:12]>> What is the answer? Why are you arguing?

[00:19:14]>> What am I arguing?

[00:19:15]>> What are you arguing?

[00:19:16]>> So, you're saying there's a one God who is greater and one God is lesser.

[00:19:20]>> No, no, there's not two gods.

[00:19:22]>> How many gods are there?

[00:19:23]>> Is the father god?

[00:19:25]>> Of course. Yeah.

[00:19:26]>> How much god is that?

[00:19:27]>> How much god?

[00:19:27]>> Yeah. One god or less >> is >> remember you said one god.

[00:19:32]>> Jesus.

[00:19:32]>> Once a >> holy spirit.

[00:19:35]>> I will ask you I'll ask you I'll ask you a question simply. I'll ask I'll ask you a question.

[00:19:41]>> Is the father God?

[00:19:43]>> Of course.

[00:19:44]>> Good. If you say someone is God, are they half a god or a third god or one god?

[00:19:48]>> It doesn't divide. It's not divide. It's essence.

[00:19:51]>> So he is fully God.

[00:19:53]>> Who?

[00:19:53]>> The father.

[00:19:56]>> Yeah.

[00:19:57]>> Good.

[00:19:57]>> God. So God the father.

[00:19:59]>> So now we have the father. So now you've answered the question.

[00:20:03]>> Unfortunately, >> he is a fully circle.

[00:20:05]>> Excuse me. Make a point which is which is pointless. Paul, >> you've just clicked. The father is fully God. Listen. The father is fully God.

[00:20:15]>> If you're fully God, >> truly God.

[00:20:19]>> Truly.

[00:20:19]>> Is he fully God?

[00:20:20]>> Truly son.

[00:20:20]>> Is he fully God?

[00:20:21]>> Truly father. Truly son. Truly.

[00:20:24]>> So, how many truly are there? Three.

[00:20:26]>> No. No. It's holy trinity.

[00:20:28]>> Sorry. How do you count?

[00:20:29]>> How can you not understand?

[00:20:30]>> How do you count?

[00:20:31]>> Understand?

[00:20:32]>> How do you count, Paul?

[00:20:34]>> I don't get it.

[00:20:34]>> Excuse me. One. One. One, one, one. How many tripods are there? I say it's one.

[00:20:40]What do you say?

[00:20:41]>> Well, you wouldn't. You say five, but not so much.

[00:20:43]>> Excuse me. I want to SAY THAT'S ONE TRIPOD. Hang on. I want to know how you count.

[00:20:47]>> Let me see. 1 * 1 * 1 * 1 * 1 is how many?

[00:20:51]>> How many tripod?

[00:20:52]>> How many is it?

[00:20:53]>> 1* 1 * 1 * 1 * 1 is how many?

[00:20:56]>> You tell me.

[00:20:57]>> One.

[00:20:58]>> That's one tripod. Yeah.

[00:20:59]>> Is that one tripod?

[00:21:00]>> 1 * 1 * 1.

[00:21:01]>> Do you agree with him? That's one tripod.

[00:21:03]>> One.

[00:21:04]>> Do you agree with him? That's one tripod.

[00:21:06]Okay.

[00:21:07]>> 1* 1* 1 what >> 1* 1* 1* 1 what is multiplication?

[00:21:13]>> Excuse me. You can't do >> one my friend what you can't multiply.

[00:21:20]>> Hang on. Hang on. Hang on.

[00:21:21]>> You got me.

[00:21:23]>> Can I ask you A QUESTION AGAIN?

[00:21:24]>> HOW many tripods are there?

[00:21:26]>> 1 * 1 * 1 * 1 * 1.

[00:21:29]>> And the answer is >> one what?

[00:21:33]>> One of each.

[00:21:33]>> One what? One tripod.

[00:21:35]>> That's one tripod. Yeah.

[00:21:36]>> One time. Yeah. You're not talking about >> So that's ONE TRIPOD.

[00:21:40]>> SO NOW WE have a Christian.

[00:21:42]>> So excuse me.

[00:21:44]>> Um Are you a Christian as well? Yeah.

[00:21:46]Are you a Christian?

[00:21:47]>> The only way.

[00:21:48]>> Do you mind explaining to me how you count?

[00:21:51]>> How I count?

[00:21:51]>> Yeah.

[00:21:52]>> Just how you count. But how you count?

[00:21:54]>> I count one.

[00:21:56]>> Okay.

[00:21:57]>> Tripod here.

[00:21:57]>> But doing what you're doing is a futile exercise.

[00:22:02]It's not exercise.

[00:22:02]>> I'm trying trying to do this to try and explain the nature of God.

[00:22:06]>> I am trying to count.

[00:22:07]>> It's not >> I'm trying to count. So did you I'm sure you learned how to count. Right. Good.

[00:22:14]So when we count how are we able to count? What are the what are the essential properties that will make us to count that's 1 2 3 4 five tripods and not not one. Why would someone like you and me agree that's five tripods here?

[00:22:28]Why? Because they are.

[00:22:30]>> What makes you say five and not one?

[00:22:32]>> Because they're separate.

[00:22:33]>> Separate. Because they're distinct from each other.

[00:22:37]>> Wait, wait, wait, wait. Now you are thinking the reason why we're able to count five tripods.

[00:22:44]>> Because each one of them is distinct from each other. And not only that, they are of the same category called tripods.

[00:22:52]No. Now if I say look look look if I said this one this one this one this one this one and that one HOW MANY TRIPOD IS THAT? HOW MANY DIFFERENT PIECES >> would you would you call >> Listen please. Would you call that's also tripod?

[00:23:06]>> How many pieces?

[00:23:07]>> It's a coat. It's a different category.

[00:23:09]>> How many pieces?

[00:23:09]>> So the category it needs to be there for us to counter.

[00:23:13]>> So now you have a category called tripods and each member of the categories they're distinct from each other. So now let's see how you count humans. That's Mansour. Paul what's your name?

[00:23:28]>> Brent.

[00:23:28]>> Brent. How many species are here? Excuse me.

[00:23:31]>> How many species are here?

[00:23:33]>> Brent. Brent.

[00:23:33]>> How many species are here?

[00:23:35]>> How many humans?

[00:23:36]>> How many species? How many species?

[00:23:39]>> Excuse me. You can ignore how many one human or three humans?

[00:23:43]>> How many species are >> you can ignore? So, how many humans?

[00:23:48]Paul, Mansur, Brent. Is that one human or three humans?

[00:23:51]>> Three of us.

[00:23:52]>> Why did you say three? Because we have a categorical called humanity human.

[00:23:56]>> Yeah.

[00:23:56]>> And we are distinct from each other. So now you realize the way we count every day and everything is only when it's the same category and there's a distinction right do you follow so far do you agree >> good so now come back now come back to trinity why I count three and not one I see the father is called by the Christians to be god fully truly whatever you say he's god he's not in the category of human or tree but is in the category of divine beings called God. God, God. So the father is called God or is known as God, worshiped as God like Christians. The son is also in the same category of God, not category of only a human, but he's also in the category of God. The Holy Spirit is likewise. So we have the same category.

[00:24:47]So we have one of the two properties.

[00:24:49]Now, right now, now let's now let's look the second example. three verses one.

[00:24:56]>> Is the father in any way, shape or form distinct from the son? The answer is yes. Is the holy spirit distinct from the father and the son? Yes. Is the son distinct from the holy spirit? Yes. So now we have another property called distinction. The father is not the son.

[00:25:10]The son is not the father. Distinction essence.

[00:25:14]>> We have the same category and distinction. Now we should be able to count one god, two god, three gods. Do you see how I count?

[00:25:26]>> What's wrong in my counting?

[00:25:27]>> Can I Can I just ask you a question?

[00:25:29]>> You can. You can. But can you tell me what's wrong in my counting?

[00:25:32]>> There's nothing wrong.

[00:25:32]>> There's nothing wrong. So you concede that's three gods.

[00:25:35]>> Can I just ask you something?

[00:25:36]>> You can take your time. You can. But concede that there's three god if we count.

[00:25:41]>> No, it's not three.

[00:25:41]>> So now tell me what's not why it's not three.

[00:25:44]>> That's how your That's how you're understanding.

[00:25:46]>> Not understanding my counting. What's wrong with my counting?

[00:25:48]>> Understanding. It's your understanding.

[00:25:49]>> What's wrong with my counting method?

[00:25:51]>> Going the same way as Muhammad's counting. Really? What's wrong in the counting method that we agreed? Same category and has to be distinction between the members or in things. So now you tell me what is wrong in my counting.

[00:26:02]>> It's like if you're walking out the road and you say what's wrong with my counting how close the counting is.

[00:26:07]>> What is my what is wrong in my counting?

[00:26:09]>> How close are you to God?

[00:26:11]>> That's nothing to do with my counting method.

[00:26:13]>> How close are you to God?

[00:26:15]>> Very close.

[00:26:16]>> So now my question to you is what is closer to an >> Excuse me. than you are.

[00:26:22]>> Listen, listen, listen, listen.

[00:26:23]>> In terms of in similarity, this is important.

[00:26:26]>> Um, Brent, Brent, >> are you going to let me?

[00:26:28]>> Brent, what's wrong with my counter?

[00:26:30]>> What's wrong in my counting?

[00:26:33]>> Your counting is irrelevant.

[00:26:34]>> What's wrong in my counter?

[00:26:36]>> Can we not shout? Can we not shout?

[00:26:37]Let's give him the benefit of Let him try and explain himself. When he tries to explain himself, he's going to he's going to unravel.

[00:26:43]>> Excellent. Well done, man. Who's thinking? What's wrong in my counting? I counted three gods. same category and distinction between them.

[00:26:52]>> What is wrong in my counting method?

[00:26:55]>> So, can we fully understand God?

[00:26:58]>> No.

[00:26:59]>> That's the end of the argument.

[00:27:02]>> What's wrong with my counting?

[00:27:04]>> According to your >> So now you agree it's the right counting method.

[00:27:09]>> I understand the counting method of of um how we count on earth. Yes. And how we understand numbers.

[00:27:15]>> Would you count differently in heaven?

[00:27:17]>> I I don't know. I don't know what what's what what's going to happen.

[00:27:20]>> So don't talk about something that you don't know. Talk about something that you know. So in everyday life we count as the way I explained to you.

[00:27:27]>> But what I'm trying to say to you is God >> God is so you I just asked you can you fully understand God?

[00:27:34]>> I said no.

[00:27:35]>> So then then why are we having this discussion?

[00:27:38]>> Because we can count if there's more than one God.

[00:27:41]We can count to give you an example in a in a concept of God >> believed by millions of people. Millions not one to millions. God the husband called Shiva. God the wife called Parvati and God the son called Ganesh.

[00:27:57]>> Yeah.

[00:27:58]>> Ganesh Ganesh had his head chopped off and replaced by an elephant head.

[00:28:04]Shiv Parvati and Ganesh one >> God. God, God, husband, wife, distinct.

[00:28:13]Let's start counting. How many gods? One or three?

[00:28:18]>> Three. Well done. You know exactly how to count. So when it comes to every other concept of God, you are willing to count the way we should count. But only when it comes to Christian concept of God, when you realize counting will make three gods, you say, "I'm sorry, I cannot count. It's God is mysterious beyond my comprehension.

[00:28:40]>> Why did you not say to a Hindu?

[00:28:42]>> If a Hindu said no that's one God it's beyond your comprehension. Do you know understand fully God? If a Hindu comes along and said that's one God mate friend God. Can you fully understand God?

[00:28:54]>> Do they believe?

[00:28:56]>> They believe in many gods. Yes.

[00:28:58]>> But do they believe that it's one God?

[00:29:00]>> Some of them say yes.

[00:29:01]>> What's one time?

[00:29:02]>> There's only one God. That's only one God. Some of them they say it's only one God. Brahma. There's only one God. Rest are manifestations.

[00:29:08]>> I know that's not what I understand.

[00:29:09]>> No, no.

[00:29:12]One God, not two.

[00:29:13]>> So they believe in one Brahma but not God as the >> all pervasive of everything. Everything else, Vishnu, Brahma, their manifestations, many concepts within Hindu religion. So there many that believe there's only one God and they will quote their scripture.

[00:29:30]So So as you've realized, Brent, >> I believe in the trinity. I know you're brought up or you've been into fed into this Christian concept and you've accepted it. It's your choice. No one's going to take it away from you. But we need to be really sensible in what we believe. Worshippping a rat or a human or a tree or really do we worship the god who is worthy of our worship. I would say we should start by asking this question. Whatever we worship, is it worthy of our worship?

[00:29:55]>> Is it worthy of our worship? Jesus >> is not worthy of worship. Jesus is not worthy of worship because he worshiped God.

[00:30:05]>> You can keep on praying but it's not going to really solve this problem of why someone worships a god that is worshiping someone else.

[00:30:13]>> Can I just say something like if we could fully understand God and we could fully grasp his nature. Would he be worthy of worship?

[00:30:22]>> God would be worthy of worship even if you did not. I'm answering my question.

[00:30:26]answer it. Firstly, it is impossible for creation to fully comprehend God.

[00:30:32]Impossible by definition. By definition, the creator is not like the created. The created entities, things have limitations, deficiencies, weaknesses and so on. They cannot be as absolute.

[00:30:46]I am I'm I'm explaining to you it's by very design. The creation is always going to be limited in all possible ways from God. So the question is not can we fully understand God? We cannot. But what God wants us to understand about him, he communicates that to us because he knows that our limitation and he's fair and just, he would never communicate something to us that we'll be unable to understand. If for example I want to communicate something to you and I know that you would not understand the communication and I still communicate to you then that will be unfair, unjust and failure of communication like I've communicated something to you. Have you understood what I've said? One second. One second. One second.

[00:31:45]Because you said the creation can't comprehend God fully.

[00:31:49]>> Yeah. No, that's fine. That's fine. But you're saying to him what God wants.

[00:31:53]>> No, I didn't say that.

[00:31:54]>> No, but you're giving him these guidelines saying I will explain.

[00:31:58]>> You're trying to say how he grew up is wrong.

[00:32:00]>> No, I will explain.

[00:32:01]>> No, but that's what it comes to.

[00:32:03]>> No, it doesn't.

[00:32:04]>> I will I will explain exactly what I mean.

[00:32:07]>> Right. No, but that's >> allow me to explain what I mean. come here.

[00:32:13]>> I said Brent that set free.

[00:32:16]>> It is not something that you and I would ever expect where the all just all fair creator creates a creation demands from something that about him to believe in him that they will never be able to understand. So God is being being just he would not communicate to you like I communicate to you earlier on you understood nothing. So if I wanted to communicate to you, I wanted to imagine I wanted to, I have failed already because you didn't understand anything because I was speaking in a different language. So that was a failure of communication from my part. So if I knew that you would not understand that language, why would I even talk to you in that language? It is like absurd. So if God is such a being that goes against our understanding in fact we reject that understanding that God is a all knowledgeable and ignorant God at the same time. Human beings will reject that contradiction and yet despite that if God demands us to believe in this we will say failure of communication. God knows that we will reject this kind of contradictions. So if you think about it the Christian concept of God in trinity is not a mystery. is clear, contradictory, incoherent, doesn't make sense. It makes sense if you affirm that's three gods working together as one family. Perfect sense. Does three gods working together as a family? Not two family, one family. Perfect sense.

[00:33:48]Or there are parts of one God where each of them are fully God. Together make one God. Makes fully sense. But all of these two possibilities are heresies. One called partialism and one called tritheism.

[00:34:01]Christians rejects both of them, which is the one that makes sense. So they believe in things like there are three gods, but they're not three gods, just one God. That is a contradiction being forced on a human being. God doesn't do that. And why I say that is that looking at human history, look at the Jewish people and their belief from God that they had. God has always been clear to them. There is no other god besides me.

[00:34:24]I alone am God and says, "No else. I am God. You should have no other gods besides me. worship me. So all of the time, every single time, all the prophets, they came to declare absolute monotheism. Not try untheism like Christianity, absolute monotheism.

[00:34:43]Imagine God says, I alone am God and there is none else. Can you be any more clear than this monotheistic concept?

[00:34:55]>> You were born again.

[00:34:58]So myself and Paul like everything that you've just kind of went on for however minutes you've gone on for to try and explain about um hold just the the struggle of understanding why Christians would believe something such as the Trinity and the reason why we as Christians we would even associate something simple as just believing what the Bible says. So in Romans it says about um the unbelievers, people who don't believe what the Bible says, suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

[00:35:36]Now, everything that you've just said, I could I could attribute to somebody who didn't believe just just believe the Bible because even though the Bible is written and has been translated in into many languages in the world into English that myself and Paul can now read and understand everything that was written in um in Hebrew and Aramaic and Greek and we have the revelations of God through the Bible and now we understand and read them in English. There was a time in my life, I'm sure there was a time in Paul's life, when people would have read this to us and we'd have been like, "What is this? This just sounds like another language." Because it is.

[00:36:15]Like, even though it's written in plain English, it's like it's another language. Because it's not just about it being written in English, in a language.

[00:36:25]It's the spirit of God revealing the scriptures, the text, the revelation of God so that I can understand it. So, we can go back and forth. We can be here till it gets dark. We can be here till the end of the year. It's not going to change what your thoughts are about how you understand um the the Trinity. Obviously, it's not something that's written in the Bible, the Trinity, but it's a theological term that is used to describe the nature of God and the Godhead. We could be, like I said, we could be here all day, all night, till next year, until we die. You will never believe it. until the spirit of God reveals reveals that this is the case as it as it comes to as it prescribes the nature of God revealed in the Bible. So what I'm trying to say is I I I love that you're here. I love that you're asking us these questions. Um but at the end of the day, what what is the what is the most important question between our faith that needs to be settled? because we can go on about the the nature of God and the Godhead.

[00:37:34]I as far as I'm concerned, I don't know about Paul, but as far as I'm concerned, the most important question that we need to know is who is Jesus? Why did he why did he die? Why is all of humanity why is there so much written in history about this one man? Why is our calendar why is everything revolving around this one person?

[00:37:56]>> It doesn't Okay, it doesn't. So now let me let me now hang on against Hello.

[00:38:03]You're being emotional. I'm not being you're emotional. I I I follow I follow >> Brent. Brent I follow several calendars.

[00:38:11]A Hindu calendar >> and a Bengali calendar.

[00:38:16]>> Listen. Listen. So your whole idea of like the Christianity has given me a calendar.

[00:38:20]>> That's not the only reason one reason.

[00:38:23]Whatever the reasons you give me, these are not the reasons to believe in this individual is God. Instead, what I offer you is this. When I examine the Bible, because ultimately you made three points. One, the Bible says so, it's written in the Bible. That's one point.

[00:38:40]So, you have to really accept even if it whatever it says it doesn't make sense to you, communication, whatever, you have to believe in it because it may look like a different language to you, but this is what I accept. If the Bible told you, >> unbeliever, >> listen, listen.

[00:38:53]has the spirit.

[00:38:54]>> If if there was a book in the Bible that said God, >> forgive me for even uttering this example that he's a cauliflower, a cabbage, >> they wouldn't say that.

[00:39:05]>> No, listen. Listen, a cabbage and human beings made a good curry out of it and that was the end of it. Just because a book says so, it is not incumbent on people to say I accept it because excuse me, I'm not finished. I'm not finished.

[00:39:23]I am not following.

[00:39:25]>> You and I would say it doesn't matter because the book says so. Does it make sense to me?

[00:39:32]>> You will you will come and say a book that describes God as a cauliflower, a cabbage, a potato, a banana.

[00:39:39]You would question that. So now you're giving me another criteria that whatever a book of God describes, it needs to make sense about God. Does it describe a god in a sense that we cannot accept that this is godly description of God?

[00:39:54]Imagine >> I believe Imagine I believe the Holy Spirit.

[00:39:57]>> No, no, that's what you believe. But when I look at it, I see that is incoherent. Let me give you the truth.

[00:40:02]No.

[00:40:03]>> The second example you said Holy Spirit.

[00:40:06]You have to believe in the Holy Spirit to believe in the Holy Spirit. What a logical fallacy.

[00:40:11]>> I don't believe in the Holy Spirit to believe in the Holy Spirit to guide me.

[00:40:15]Right? So, so your your position is >> three times.

[00:40:19]>> Ah, no, you're not. You don't not read my Quran.

[00:40:22]>> Prophet Muhammad.

[00:40:23]>> No, he's not the Holy Spirit.

[00:40:26]>> You don't teach me my religion, right?

[00:40:30]>> So, >> the book of Miriam, it says >> you you believe that only the Holy Spirit can >> Sorry, I didn't get your name.

[00:40:37]>> Mansour Brand Paul.

[00:40:38]>> Okay. I just wanted to get your names Paul. We're talking. So you believe the Holy Spirit is the one who's going to guide us. But what we say as Muslims, God has given every single human beings an equal opportunity >> intellect.

[00:40:53]>> That's with this intellect.

[00:40:54]>> That's where we disagree.

[00:40:55]>> You can disagree with your intellect. I can dis disagree with you by saying I cannot worship a rat or a banana or a cauliflower or a cabbage or a potato as being god. I cannot worship a God who puts a rainbow in the sky for a reason that it will remind him of a covenant that he made long time ago because God doesn't forget. In my understanding, God is all knowledgeable. He doesn't forget.

[00:41:18]Why would he need a rainbow to remind him? When I look at the cloud and I see the rainbow, it will remind me.

[00:41:25]>> It's a comedy. It's a language.

[00:41:26]>> Listen, listen, listen, listen.

[00:41:28]>> If if if someone writes, God says it will remind me. I would I know very well that didn't come from God because God doesn't need reminding by a rainbow. So you can you can just talk about it's a poetry my friend.

[00:41:42]>> God is a banana. It's a poetry.

[00:41:44]>> God is a rat. It's a poetry language of accommodation.

[00:41:48]>> Look look what you're missing the point is this. When somebody worships a cockroach as God it's language as accommodation. It's poetry is eloquence.

[00:41:57]Do you see the point? I can bring in the same kind of false invalid justification. So when I look at the examine the Bible, I see the Bible has errors within it. I see the writers of the Bible, >> let's go there, shall we?

[00:42:11]>> I see the writers of the Bible making making statements which are false, statements which are untrue, statements which are concocted. So when I examine the writing, I know about the writer.

[00:42:24]That writer cannot be trusted, cannot be relied on. How can I rely on an individual writer of a book that actually gives me false information. In fact, by man, >> look, >> the Bible is written.

[00:42:36]>> Would you Brent >> believe in a scripture?

[00:42:41]>> Knowing the author gives you false information. Would you?

[00:42:44]>> I'm sorry. Can you repeat the question, sir?

[00:42:46]>> Would you believe in a writing as scripture from God, inspired, God breath, whatever? Right? Would you if you know without a shadow of doubt? So that's my precondition, right?

[00:43:01]>> Conditional statement that the Quran says about >> the author who's giving you the information is giving you false information. Would you accept that as scripture from God?

[00:43:10]>> Your your Quran says sent down the Torah and the end would >> this is a nonargument.

[00:43:16]>> Excuse me. Any scripture that claims to be from God and you know that the information given to you by the writer of that scripture is false. If you knew that, would you take that scripture as from from God?

[00:43:32]>> Would you any book I didn't say Bible any book that includes the Quran, the Bible, the Va any book which claims from God? Would you would you?

[00:43:41]>> So if you're I've read the whole Bible and I'm convinced that that >> that's not I'm not talking about the Bible only.

[00:43:47]>> But I'm trying to say to you that >> I'm giving you a principle question of principle.

[00:43:51]>> Listen, I am I am giving you a principle. Any book that claims to be from God, if it contains false information which you know, would you take that book as from God?

[00:44:03]>> Does that apply to the Quran as well?

[00:44:05]>> Any book including the Quran?

[00:44:06]>> So if there's if there's mistakes in the Quran, >> any book including the Quran, mistakes, false information, if it has those things, would you take it it's from God?

[00:44:15]>> I wouldn't. What about you, Brent?

[00:44:20]>> There's quite a few mistakes in the Quran.

[00:44:23]>> Would you? I would not >> sorry >> if any book including the Quran contains false information mistakes and errors I would reject that book.

[00:44:34]>> Would you?

[00:44:34]>> Yes.

[00:44:35]>> You really would.

[00:44:36]>> Ask any Muslim. If that was the case, they would reject it.

[00:44:40]>> Because we are Muslims by what? By intellectual thinking and submission.

[00:44:46]Willing submission knowing informed knowledge.

[00:44:50]So now Brent, >> would you take a book >> as being from God?

[00:44:58]>> I want people to listen.

[00:44:59]>> I want people to listen.

[00:45:00]>> Okay. I will be a little bit further away.

[00:45:03]>> Would you take such a book from God?

[00:45:05]>> What if it if it contained error?

[00:45:07]>> If it contains false information.

[00:45:09]>> False information.

[00:45:10]>> Yeah.

[00:45:12]>> Excellent.

[00:45:13]>> Brent, we agree.

[00:45:14]>> Certainly have to look.

[00:45:15]>> We agree. Now let me give you false information in the Bible and then you tell me whether the information is actually false or not.

[00:45:24]>> So shall I start?

[00:45:26]>> The first book of the Bible of the New Testament is the book of Matthew. The first page Matthew gives information about Jesus to be the son of David. And he gives you list of names. These are all the generations from Abraham to David. from David to carrying away to exile to Babylon and from him to Jesus Christ. Three lots of 14 generations total 42. And he says these are all of the generations.

[00:45:56]>> You can check you can >> I didn't measure all that.

[00:45:58]>> Okay.

[00:45:59]>> He didn't measure.

[00:46:01]>> Let's they jump generations.

[00:46:02]>> Let's show you exactly what it is. No, no, no. Because he objected. It's important now that we actually go to the text and see what it says. So, Matthew Matthew 1. Okay.

[00:46:20]>> Bible gateway. Is that okay?

[00:46:21]>> Yes.

[00:46:21]>> Fine. Okay.

[00:46:24]>> NIV. Any anything that you like? These are options, right? Which which which translation would you prefer?

[00:46:28]>> It doesn't matter.

[00:46:29]>> It doesn't matter.

[00:46:30]>> ESV.

[00:46:30]>> ESV. ESV.

[00:46:32]>> Let's see if we can find ESV.

[00:46:35]>> ESV.

[00:46:36]>> Okay.

[00:46:38]>> Nothing. In um surah 3 3 and 4 it says that >> can you read that statement there were 14 generations from Abraham from David to the exile of 14 from the exile.

[00:46:52]>> Did you say in all? Yeah.

[00:46:54]>> Sorry.

[00:46:54]>> Did you say in all?

[00:46:57]>> 14.

[00:46:59]>> These are 14 generations in >> all. Not some in all.

[00:47:06]>> to the numbers in all.

[00:47:07]>> Excuse me. to show you that it's not just an arbitrary translation of the word ano. You can go to the Greek, but let's go to any other translation. Give me another couple of more. Not my preference.

[00:47:17]>> It's fine. Yeah.

[00:47:19]>> Yeah. Okay. Well, yes.

[00:47:21]>> So, all all the generations that >> doesn't mean it means objecting again.

[00:47:25]>> If you add those numbers again 14 in all, it doesn't mean it's all the generations.

[00:47:29]>> This is NIV. Let's see what I I don't know what NIV says. I I'll find a few.

[00:47:32]I'll find a few.

[00:47:34]>> You got it wrong.

[00:47:35]>> In all. Yeah.

[00:47:36]So, so now >> what >> Matthew is a writer whoever he is >> telling us these are from people that is describing they're all the generations from >> included in >> yeah from A to B to C to D whatever right three categories 14 14 14 >> makes up the name >> false we can go back to the Old Testament we can check the list and we know they're more than 14 and we know exactly which people you've omitted. Now >> because he says all and now it's more than all. You can say actually it's very interesting. Why is he saying all when this more? And secondly, why does he remove specific people? Not everyone. He removes specific people.

[00:48:28]>> One person he removes. One person he removes like here.

[00:48:31]>> It's really bad.

[00:48:34]Hezekiah the father of Manessa. Manessa the father of Ammon. Ammon the father of Josiah. Josiah the father of Joniah and his brothers at the time of exalt.

[00:48:43]Josiah was not the father of Joniah.

[00:48:45]>> Josiah is not the father of Joniah from historical records of the Old Testament.

[00:48:52]You already have the scripture the Old Testament of the Jewish people.

[00:48:55]>> He's coming from >> Joniah was the grandson of Josiah. The name he's omitted is called Jehoakim.

[00:49:02]Jehoakim was omitted. So you might think, "Oh, he didn't like Jehim." What a reason.

[00:49:08]>> No, Jehoim is omitted because when we go to the Bible in the Old Testament, there is a reason why. Because God of the Bible says about Jehim, >> you and your descendants will have no one to sit on the throne of David. Yes.

[00:49:26]>> So God cursed Jehovah Kim >> that he would not be in the line of David to sit in the throne of David.

[00:49:35]>> What Matthew wants to make Jesus is to be called the son of David. He wants him to claim the throne of David. point.

[00:49:43]>> Just think if you have Jew in this line if you had him just imagine Matthew had him then you would say selfdefeated concept because anyone that comes through his line cannot claim the throne of David because he's been cursed.

[00:49:59]Anyone including Jehawim and his descendants >> anyone that comes from his line they cannot claim the throne of David not sit on the throne of David cursed. So now we realize why Matthew is taking him off because he can't you can't have him here if you want to make Jesus the son of David.

[00:50:17]>> I didn't bring this up. This was pointed out by the Jewish people who even before the Muslims engaging with these comparative religion discussions. They pointed this out. Our books are very clear. And look how Matthew changed our book to fit whatever his theology is.

[00:50:37]But he distorted history. So he gave you false information which is not historically true. So that is one example which you can check.

[00:50:47]Excuse me. One example that I have said it's available in records. Now you can check as much as you need from scholarship of the Christians and you will see that this is the reality. If you go to 1 Chronicles chapter 3 this is for the record. So you can remember verses 10, 12, 15, 16. It has all the people within this genealogy. Jeremiah 30:36 or 3630. This is the second reference for Jehovah being cursed not to be sitting in the throne of David. So you have both the references from the Old Testament.

[00:51:22]One example in the first page, just flip the page, second page, he makes another error.

[00:51:28]Now Matthew says to whoever the author is as was spoken by the prophets he shall be called a Nazarene. So now he gives you a prophecy that prophets in the past gave a prophecy that's what the prophecy is said as was spoken by the prophets he shall be called a Nazarene.

[00:51:45]No prophets.

[00:51:47]If we now check in the Old Testament writings from Genesis to the end of the Old Testament, I'll show you >> that that go on show me that he says that he shall be called a Nazarene.

[00:52:02]>> It doesn't exist.

[00:52:03]>> One question.

[00:52:04]>> It does not. Excuse me. Let me finish.

[00:52:06]It does not exist. Now, the question is, >> why would Matthew run from it?

[00:52:11]>> I will come to you in a one moment. I'm examing the Bible, not the Quran. The confirmed Brent >> relax. I'll come back. I'll come I'll come to you. So now as you now realize in the second page of the Bible, Matthew gives an information of a prophecy. It's a concoction. It doesn't exist. You can say as a push back maybe they lost it.

[00:52:35]Maybe they have lost that prophecy. Then what you're saying is the Bible is not preserved. There was a book a prophecy of Christ in which it what it said he shall be called a Nazarene but it's no longer extent and available. I think it's a logical explanation but that then gives you it it is costly. It costs you the preservation of the Old Testament that you lost a viable scripture that had a prophecy of Christ. So this was second page. If you go a little bit later, Matthew talks about how at the end of this world, no, not at the end of the world, when the crucifixion was event was happening, he says the graves were opening up, >> the saints came out.

[00:53:21]>> The saints came out from the graves and they appeared to multitudes as he went to the city.

[00:53:29]If saints meaning dead people came out from the graves in whatever form whether in the skeleton or in their original clothing or new clothing I don't mind if they went and appear to the people OH MY GREATGRANDFATHER OR MY uncle people will be rejoicing talking if he was their version of the social media it'll be known to the whole community yeah whatever the social media was gossiping whatever right Everyone would know look not one person has risen from the dead. Many saints have come and now they've appeared to us many. This event of this great magnitude is expected to be remembered and narrated by various people believers non-believers atheists Jews Christians Romans chronicers historians all of them. But guess what?

[00:54:26]No one talks about this at all.

[00:54:29]>> No one except Matthew.

[00:54:32]>> Wonder why.

[00:54:33]>> I know why. Because it didn't exist. It didn't happen. Him just made it up.

[00:54:37]>> That's what you're saying.

[00:54:37]>> Now, what do your scholars say? Like, like for example, >> can we look? I know it's great. You're talking.

[00:54:43]>> Do you want to have a chat as well? Do you want to speak?

[00:54:46]>> I've just been listening to it. I mean, um, yeah.

[00:54:49]>> So, you should check whether this information I've given you is indeed false and concocted. if they are false and concocted the first two examples.

[00:54:59]Third one is about why no one talks about it because he's just making this up in my opinion.

[00:55:03]>> Who do you believe?

[00:55:05]>> If if you find that actually he has omitted Jehoakim and Jehookim is cursed by God and he says these are all the 14 generations when it's not then you know this is a false information. Then you should ask yourself why am I trusting an individual who's giving me false information? I want to trust about my life here and hereafter heaven and hell on an individual who's giving me incorrect false information and true information. That's all I'm asking.

[00:55:32]>> Who sent down the Torah?

[00:55:34]>> Torah was sent by God to Moses. God Allah who sent down the >> Allah to Christ Jesus the son of Mary that his word has been changed. It doesn't make sense. God does not claim anywhere that no one can just rewrite the text and change it. Like for example, the Book of Mormons, the Book of Mormons is copied from the Old Testament and the New Testament of the Bible. They've changed it here and there, right? People can change with their own hands this revelation and say, "There you go."

[00:56:09]>> You said, you just said it's corrupted.

[00:56:11]>> That's exactly what I said.

[00:56:12]>> You said the Torah >> people the is corrupted. No, no. I didn't say that. You're taking what I say.

[00:56:19]>> The revelation was given to them.

[00:56:21]>> People are changing what's been transmitted. Allah wrote it. Allah didn't write it. Okay. He sent it down.

[00:56:28]You don't even know the basics of my religion.