How To Scale A Business In 2026 l Benjamin Hardy 10x Framework

Added: 2026-06-03

[00:00:00]We coach a lot of small business owners that they just stay there between one and five million forever and it's a very frustrating place to live. What do you think the primary problem is there?

[00:00:09]>> Scale is just a very different game from incremental or linear growth. A lot of times people think that growth and scale are the same thing but they're not.

[00:00:16]>> Scale is a different game and you can never actually get to scale by focusing on growth.

[00:00:20]>> And then you get into business and it's like there's so much opportunity confusion. So how does a person choose the one thing?

[00:00:26]>> We live in a world that runs on what's called power laws. And power laws mean that a few things create almost all the results. 80% of success comes from 20%.

[00:00:34]But really the power law is more extreme than that. Usually it's more close to like All right, Coach Michael Bert back in the Level 10 studios here. The Big Table podcast. I do believe most people want a seat at a bigger table in life. And the big table is highly profitable. It's highly enjoyable. It's also highly meaningful. I think there's three returns on the big table. return on your energy, return on your investment, return on your objectives. And man, am I excited about our guest today. He's been here with us, Dr. Benjamin Hardy.

[00:01:04]>> I think I need to move in. I always have fun with you, Coach.

[00:01:07]>> Thank you, ma'am. Thank you. And you were at a big concept we had last night and a lot of people in and we announced our partnership that you're our official scaling partner at scaling.com. I'm really excited about that. I've already had people who said they're enrolling in scaling.com today. So, uh, let's talk about there's so many things I want to talk to you about, but but let's talk about the newest book, right? The science of scaling. And I know you you finished one and you got a new one. How long does it take you to come out with a new one? Is there a certain time that you want that to be out or how how's that working with you?

[00:01:36]>> My cadence has usually been a book a year.

[00:01:39]>> Okay.

[00:01:39]>> A book a year for the last >> Okay.

[00:01:41]>> seven, eight years.

[00:01:42]>> Yeah.

[00:01:42]>> But I I do want to just mention that we at scaling.com >> wanted to partner with Coach Bird. you know, you've you've very much heavily coached >> Yeah.

[00:01:52]>> my co-founder, Blake Ericson, and he, you know, he attributes a lot of his learning and his development to what he learned from you. So, you know, when we found out we could partner with you, it was just a no-brainer. Nobrainer. You're the best in the world at what you do.

[00:02:05]So, it's an honor, brother.

[00:02:06]>> Thank you, man.

[00:02:06]>> And to me, it just makes sense.

[00:02:08]>> Yeah, it does make sense. And, uh, you and I have gotten to know each other a little bit better over the last couple of days. And >> it's been fun, right?

[00:02:13]>> We got kindred spirits, man. We're both learners. And I think you know you're you're humble and hungry and teachable, alert, curious, responsive. I'm sure you've heard that before. And uh so we're excited about this.

[00:02:24]>> Thanks, brother.

[00:02:25]>> When you when you chose the problem of scaling, right, we talked about this last night. When you chose the problem of scaling, I was just telling the group that I love that problem because we coach a lot of small business owners that are in that never neverland that stay between, you know, if they can even get to a million, right? and they just stay there between one and five million forever, right? And it's a very frustrating place to live. What do you think the primary problem is there? Is it that they don't know how to do it?

[00:02:54]They don't think they can do it. Like you come along and you said, "Look, we could take pretty much any discipline and 10x that business in three years, which is a I love that claim. It's like right 10x in three years." What is the what is the main problem for these people? Do you think >> I think that most people don't take it literally. You know, I was I was um so we when I wrote 10X is easier than 2X, my third book with Dan Sullivan. Um I I went out and spoke all over the world to entrepreneurs and I found so many entrepreneurs love that book, but they took it more metaphorically. They didn't take it literally.

[00:03:30]>> And um I forgot I was listening to something this morning. I forgot what it was, but there's certain things. Oh, it was in physics. So, I was listening to the I sometimes go I love geeking out on things, but the the guy who was talking today was talking about how like there are certain things we have to actually take literally. We can't take as just metaphor or concept. And the thing that I found is often times people don't literally take the 10x goal seriously.

[00:03:51]And so, as an example, if this person's at even if they're at 500,000 revenue, right, just starting out, 500,000, I want them to think from 5 million or 10 million or even more, but to actually say, what does this business have to look like to get to 5 or 10 million in the next 3 years, not in the next 10 or 20, but in the next 3 years? And what would what would that goal 5 million, how would that have to reshape our thinking? How would it have to reshape our strategy? How would it have to reshape the team we build? How would it reshape how we define ourselves and who we serve and what we do.

[00:04:23]>> Scale is just a very different game from incremental or linear growth. A lot of times people think that growth and scale are the same thing, but they're not.

[00:04:30]>> Scale is a different game.

[00:04:32]>> And you can never actually get to scale by focusing on growth. And so we want that person, you know, and if they're at 5 million, we want them to think from to 50 million and say, how do I get to 50 million in two or three years? Um, but that scale objective is going to force them to rethink their company. And and one of the things that we want people to think about, you've heard of the bell curve. Yes. And and what the bell curve is is it's an idea that the world is normally distributed. And what normal distribution means is that things are equal.

[00:04:58]>> Y >> and we know that in the real world things aren't equal.

[00:05:01]>> Right.

[00:05:01]>> We live in a world that that runs on what's called power laws.

[00:05:04]>> And power laws mean that a few things create almost all the results. You know, you've heard of the 8020 principle that 80% of success comes from 20%. But really the power law is more extreme than that. Usually it's more close to like 991 where it's like 99% of the music we listen to is written by 1% of the uh 1% of the musicians. Think about the music that we hear on the radio.

[00:05:25]Like there are so many musicians out there. And we're in Nashville right now, right? So like 99% of the music we listen to comes from 1% of the musicians, 99% of the books we read, 1% 1% of the authors, 99% of the economy is driven by 1% of the companies, right?

[00:05:36]When it comes to influence, I know that you're big on influence. A lot of the influence comes from a very small percentage of people. And so the power law world appreciates that the world's not normally distributed. it's driven by a few extremes or the outliers.

[00:05:48]>> And so part of what happens when you start to operate from scale, when you start to think, I want to 10x in three years, >> is it forces you to find those few things that create almost all the results and you have to just get, you know, we call it raising the floor. You have to raise your floor and you have to start saying most things can't scale, so I've got to drop these things and I got to actually focus intensely on the thing that can. And if you do that, you become very influential.

[00:06:10]>> Yeah. And I think that if you said there's one problem even when I was talking to Blake and I go that's been a problem for me.

[00:06:17]>> They don't set the 10x goal.

[00:06:19]>> Well, or is it focus?

[00:06:21]>> The focus on what the one thing is.

[00:06:25]>> Okay. And choosing that one thing.

[00:06:28]>> Yes.

[00:06:28]>> And um >> that's part of strategy by the way though.

[00:06:31]>> And you got me thinking because you know for 13 years as a basketball coach I had one thing. That was it. Right. Win a championship. Build championship players. There was no side deals, there was no real estate deals, there was no and then you get into business and it's like there's so much opportunity confusion. So how does a person choose the one thing? Like when you come to your conclusion of choosing scaling and I and you and you showed the variance last night that you're it's not really scaling.com is not really a coaching company. It's really a a strategy company, a research company, right?

[00:07:02]Yeah, it's it's a research and advising firm that also has a an investment side, but it only has one purpose, >> right?

[00:07:09]>> Which is to help committed founders 10x in three years, those who want to do that. And so we just say, what are the things that are relevant for that? We want to have the best research and frameworks. We're going to give them the best strategic advising >> and accountability. And for those that need it, we're going to give them, you know, investment opportunity capital.

[00:07:24]>> Yep. And and so how does it work? Is there a regular cadence with their with their strategy advisor?

[00:07:31]>> Strategist. Yes. Oh yeah. Okay.

[00:07:32]>> Yeah. So if someone comes into.com, first off, they can't come in unless they're fully committed to 10xing in three years.

[00:07:38]>> And so we wanted to create the only environment where everyone in there's 10xing. If you're 1 million going for 10 or 20, that's fine. If you're at a billion going for 10 billion, awesome.

[00:07:44]You know, the the thing that matters is are you willing to go 10x in three years. And then we have the framework that can do that. We then pair them with strategists who are world class at >> kind of being iron against iron. Like if you're in there, Coach Bert, like one thing that is very natural is even if you start thinking from scale, thinking from 10x and letting that shape and impact everything you do, it's just very easy in a week or a month >> to get caught back going diluted, getting distracted in the weeds and and and when you do that, you go back to linear, >> right?

[00:08:14]>> From my world, you go back from a power law to back on the bell curve where you're going to grow very incrementally and slow, right?

[00:08:19]>> And so we don't want you to be on that bell curve. We want you to be a power law that's extremely scaling.

[00:08:24]>> And but so you need that. that you need.

[00:08:25]So, the strategist works with you um you know, at least once a month, >> you know, often bi-weekly. It's a lot of it's just based on need, but they're there to really challenge you, like to really make sure that you're making the right decision. They're not going to make the decision for you, but they're going to challenge you. They're going to ask, "Are you sure?" They're going to give you a lot, you know, they they've got the reps. They work with tons of different companies. They know what they're doing. They're trained on this stuff. They see the patterns. And so, they're going to ask you those questions, >> and they'll help you find the right solution, which is ultimately your decision. And then, they're going to hold you accountable to that. And then as the month goes by, they're going to help you analyze, are you still operating from scale? Are you making the right moves? Because when you do start to operate from scale, and if you start working on the power line, you get really focused. You should be making big jumps every single month.

[00:09:05]>> Yeah.

[00:09:06]>> You know, you should be making big jumps every single month. And you should be making moves that probably in the past would have taken you 3 to 6 months to make. Now you're making them a lot faster >> because you have to filter faster. You have to learn faster. The growth curve or the learning curve is just way more aggressive with scale. Yeah.

[00:09:19]>> So you got to learn things faster, make decisions faster. So, I noticed that in the book there's there's several examples of of I guess what I call strategic partnership where where and and because when I spent a year with Price Pritchette and we and we you know I was deep in quantum leaps with him and that's why I loved hooking you guys up because it's the way you think but but I kept coming back to what produces a quantum leap is that I meet a new person and they bring me new knowledge right like like last night you were bringing new knowledge to people here that they haven't thought about >> huge >> pulling from the future versus the past.

[00:09:53]They're making them rethink that. So, is is the quantum leap happen because they are introduced to a new person that brings them new knowledge or they introduced to a new person that brings them new opportunity like a strategic partnership? Because when I show big spikes in my business, it was typically because I met someone like you and I had new some type of new opportunity or if I did a speaking engagement, there were 10,000 people and we enrolled 500 new clients at one time and I showed a spike So when you think about it in the book, it's like your first person was had an idea, then she took it to someone else, then they used it, then they the distribution channel really grew. That is that how we should be thinking about this or should we be thinking I mean tell me how to think about it as it relates to 10xing.

[00:10:38]>> So there's what I'll call proactive quantum leaps and reactive quantum leaps.

[00:10:42]>> Yeah. Yeah. And so I I think that the reactive quantum leap which is less in your control is is that someone comes into your world that changes your paradigm.

[00:10:50]>> Okay.

[00:10:51]>> Right. So someone comes into your world teaches you something new.

[00:10:54]>> Opens you up to a new insight and then or or opens up a new opportunity. Right?

[00:10:59]>> Someone comes in shows you a new model of of the world or a new way of looking at your life and business. And so you have a new paradigm and you have a new potential for your future, right? That could be a quantum leap or someone comes in and has you know brings a big opportunity or big distribution, right?

[00:11:12]So I think that that's more reactive. I think proactive >> is getting better at filtering for and finding those quantum leaps. And to me that starts by ha by actually having a new and a bigger future.

[00:11:22]>> Okay.

[00:11:22]>> Right. So Roy Balmeister he's a a psychologist very important psychologist spent a lot of time he actually one of the inventors of the field of positive psychology but he said that the person speaking about people he says yourself is not a thing it's a process and it uses the future to organize the present.

[00:11:38]So as people we use our goals to organize the present. Think about this beautiful room that you've organized.

[00:11:43]>> You had a goal >> at one point. This was just an idea in your head, >> right? And you used the future to organize this room, right? Even this table, this is an organization of wood and metal and things like that. So, someone had the desire to turn this turn an idea for a table into a table and they organized resources, technologies, resources, all those things. So, we use the future to organize the present. And so for me, the best ways to engineer a quantum leap is to set a future that seems impossible.

[00:12:11]>> Okay.

[00:12:11]>> Right. An impossible goal, a 10x goal or more and in a short time frame. And from there, >> you you're going to it's going to require a quantum leap.

[00:12:19]>> Yeah.

[00:12:19]>> Right. And so from the 10x goal, you have to filter and find what could be the few things that could get you there.

[00:12:25]You've heard the concept of reticular activating system. In psychology, we actually call it selective attention.

[00:12:29]But the main idea is that as humans, we use the future not only to organize our present in terms of organizing resources, organizing capability. If we want to go to the moon, like back in, you know, the Kennedy days, we use that goal to shape the present, organize the present, build rockets, you know, bring together a ton of resources. Um, but we also use the future as the tool for filtering the present. You know, they call it signal and noise. And so that guy just barely said that all of these people are coming into his life and coming into his world, but that's not an accident. He's been filtering for them because now his future requires it. He's going for a 10x goal. And so now he's bringing these people into his life.

[00:13:06]He's filtering for them. He's looking for them and and and he's creating a a future where they have a part in that.

[00:13:11]Whether it's a strategic partnership or whether it's just they're joining his team, they're going to bring their capability. So >> one of one of the things that I've learned, Coach Bert, is that >> we have access all around us. There are dormant resources.

[00:13:23]>> Yes, >> it could be in the form of partnerships, team members, leverage, um even capability right there. Even within us, there's dormant resources like me, Benjamin Hardy, >> you know, a lot of people are like, Ben, you're you're smart and stuff like that, but you know, I barely graduated high school.

[00:13:39]>> So, even in this brain, there was dormant capability that only until I had a goal that kind of forced me to like start working on it could I develop that ability. They call it deliberate practice as you would know of course as a coach, >> but there's so many dormant resources that are just sitting there right there that you're not organizing that you're not bringing to bear. It could be even capital, >> right?

[00:13:57]>> Say your goal is big enough where you need $100 million, right? That capital is sitting there, it's just not being organized by you and it's not. And so I think that the best way to um engineer a quantum leap is to go for an impossible goal. And I think, you know, and I've talked to Pritchard about this.

[00:14:09]I love I love him and I love that you two work. But I think that that's when you start to engineer a quantum leap cuz then you actually need to make a quantum leap to get there. Did you find when you wrote 10x is easier than 2x and and um you know some of those books gap in the gain who not how did you find as you were going out in the world that that just a lot of people just didn't and they couldn't scale or they couldn't and and that's why you kept coming to this revelation like this is the problem I need to solve.

[00:14:38]>> Yes.

[00:14:39]>> Right. I mean, is that because I feel like watching a lot of your interviews, you were you were out there seeing all the influencers, being on the circuits and and something clicked in you like these people don't don't know how to do this or they haven't done it and that prompted you to to to go down this lane.

[00:14:56]>> So, I'm going to I have to be um a little careful in how I say this.

[00:15:03]when it comes to like thought leadership or even just choosing a topic, >> it can be very easy to be a disorganized thinker.

[00:15:10]>> Yes.

[00:15:11]>> And so when it came to like if you think about business in general, it could be um it could be college business, right?

[00:15:18]If I want to go study business in college, I can study finance, I can study HR, I can study marketing, I can study strategy, right? There's a but but but think about it. You can't study scaling.

[00:15:30]>> Exactly.

[00:15:30]>> You can't. and be and and there and it and it's never been organized. If you think about we use we use the future to organize the present, that is a topic that's never been structured. It's never been organized. And so there's all sorts of crazy unstructured business ideas.

[00:15:45]And so when I think about the three books I wrote with Dan Sullivan, and I say this with utter respect, >> there's a bunch of really good ideas that are fairly unorganized.

[00:15:56]>> Mhm.

[00:15:57]>> 10x, whatever. And and so the thing that's really powerful when you choose a strategy and you said it sometimes we decided that what is the what is the head under which we want to put all this and it just made sense that scaling >> was the thing that needed to be organized and it's like no we're going to talk about this topic this is a critical topic and we need to simplify and structure this topic it needs to be redefined almost how Einstein redefined physics it's like we need to define this and describe it and actually provide an insight because right now out in the business world there's thousands or hundreds of thousands of teachers or etc that are that are teaching all sorts of unrelated or related ideas all over the place scattered thought and it's like how do you just put this under a single umbrella and actually teach it and describe it so that you can actually have a simple system and cut out all the noise >> and so I just think that there was so I I think that there's a beauty in actually saying what's the thing >> what's the critical And it felt like scaling was where the puck is headed >> cuz in the world we're shifting from a linear world to an exponential world increasingly. So scale is becoming increasingly important.

[00:17:08]>> Um and it's just it's it's just a critical topic in business and and it's a topic that has been underserved. It's a buzzword. People say it but what does it mean?

[00:17:19]>> When you built scaling.com and you sat back and kind of engineered the company, right? like you did you go okay what what we really need is strategist >> and because we run a coaching company really that's the way I would define it right we and and I kind of define coaching as engaging people in a set of systematic behaviors that allows them to do something tomorrow they can't do today but there's a lot of frameworks like like my skill set is packaging right packaging intellectual property putting it into frameworks cuz I was a basketball coach and everything was structured and offensive systems and defensive systems and probability and driving up the probability of winning.

[00:17:55]So when you thought about building scaling.com and you sat down and you kind of drew it up, what what were things that you said were missing in the world? Like they need a strategist, they need frequency with a strategist, they need a framework, they need to come together twice a year because they they en roll incaling.com, right? They're assigned. Tell talk us through the mechanics of of that.

[00:18:16]>> Yeah. So we thought what is what would be helpful and what would be needed and certainly we believe in coaches, right?

[00:18:23]We believe in in that as a concept whether you're trying to improve your health or whether I want to learn how to write a book, right? I mean, when you go write a book, an editor is often they an editor is kind of a coach, right? We don't use that language cuz we we we prefer strategic advising in our world and and you know, it's probably closer to consulting um because we really help them in like the actual gritty, not just with their mind, but like the actual strategy decision-m in terms of team members and things like that. And so we knew that these people, you know, and also in performance psychology, this is something we were learning more and more. There is certain cadences that are helpful. Usually a week, weekly cadence is often too often just for the brain, but bi-weekly is actually really useful, right? Monthly might actually be a little too far for some, >> you know, and so we just thought we need someone, they do need like advising and counsel from someone who's a master, someone who who's outside their business, right? and can just engage with them and help them ultimately develop the right strategy and then be accountable to that strategy. Human beings need accountability, right?

[00:19:26]>> And then what we also need is is like we thought what's the most important thing we could do to normalize scale in their brain because a lot of a lot of people are not naturally trained on 10x thinking >> and so we we wanted to normalize that in their brain and so that's part of why we our our primary education source is just releasing case studies. So inscale.com we're we we spend an enormous amount of time researching um what our top scalers are doing right like because for us we don't live in a a bell curve world we live in a power law world and so for us we study the outliers what are the outliers who are 10xing really fast what are they doing and so we study them we publish that research straight to our community but also we release case studies of our members who are scaling it rapidly we provide those continuously to our to our clients because we want them not only we want to normalize in their brain. They're like it's just normal to go 10x. Like that's not normal outside of scaling.com, but inside scaling.com that's normal. It's the expectation and it's what everyone's doing.

[00:20:29]>> And so we just want that. We want that culture.

[00:20:32]>> But also with the case studies because we're decoding the best ones who are doing it, they then can learn from other people who are doing it and that just gives them ideas, right? So we got let's give them a strategist. Let's give them continuous flow of case studies. Let's give them access to community where they want it. And so there are group sessions which are >> essentially set up where you can be in a a breakout session with other members of scaling.com who are scaling and you can just talk to other people who are who are going through the same process completely different industries etc. or we could pair you, but where you can ask them questions and say, >> you know, should I fire this guy, right?

[00:21:11]Or or or or how would you set up that position, right? And so you just you get you get to be in a peer space where other people are act like can get you some smart answers and can call you out, right? And um and then just the you know and you know this too given your world, >> we do have two annual events um or by annual but two live inerson events for people who choose to be there and there is something really critical to in person. Yeah, >> you know, I just I believe that me just being with you in the flesh >> um human beings like there's something about being in an environment, stepping away from the noise and being together and just having a pretty transformative experience >> that that can change trajectory >> massive, >> you know. So, yeah, we just thought like what are the what are the simplest things that we could do to provide 10x and one would be the strategist case studies. we do have a phenomenal AI that's trained on all of our sessions that that that knows you your business and can help you. But um and then just the the community and the inerson we just thought these are the critical pieces and as we've interviewed our members just to validate you know cuz one of the things that I love about Elon Musk is he says >> Elon Musk said that the most common mistake of a smart engineer is to optimize something that shouldn't exist.

[00:22:20]>> Y >> and so I think in a lot of times with a business we add features we add things that we think are needed when they're really not needed. And so we're always think you know a good system engineer >> focuses on subtraction not addition just like a good editor and a good writer thinks what should we remove and that's harder. Removing is harder than adding and so we always are validating what are the most critical things we're doing >> and what are the things that we should actually eliminate you know but >> you know we we continue to get feedback from our members and sometimes when they say we should add certain things just because they say we should add it doesn't mean we should.

[00:22:54]>> Hey it's coach again. If you're serious about accelerating your path to the big table, I've got an opportunity for you, you can schedule a free call with a member of my team to talk about your goals, what's holding you back, and how we can help unlock the next level of growth for you. But let me be clear, this call isn't for just anyone. It's for business leaders and entrepreneurs who've already experienced success, but know there's another level to be unlocked. There's a bigger table and you want a seat at that table. If this is you, head to freeall.coachbert.com and book your free call today. Again, that's freeall.coachbbert.com and I'll see you at the big table. When you think about strategy for you to to get to your 10x goal, right? So, you set a big target >> huge >> for forc scaling.com. It's 5,ou is it 5,000? Is that our initial target?

[00:23:51]>> Initial. Okay. How do you think about strategy for that? Do you think I need four primary strategies and two secondary strategies? Do you think we're going to we're going to buckle down on one strategy? Like when you're thinking about pathways to get there. Yep.

[00:24:05]>> Do you think, hey, we need one strategy, two strategy, three strategies? Because because that's the basketball coach and me. We had set plays, we ran the plays, we we charted. What didn't work, we threw out. What did work, we we stayed with. Then I got into the business world and it's like nobody really has a strategy or pathway to get to where they're going.

[00:24:23]>> Yeah.

[00:24:23]>> So, how do you think about getting to this big this big 10x goal?

[00:24:28]>> Yeah. I I think that it's important to real for us strategy is more singular.

[00:24:34]So like the strategy of the business is that we're an advising firm that helps companies 10x in three years or less.

[00:24:42]>> And we're different from everything else. And so we define that as the strategy. um >> in terms of pathways to getting there or or potential tactics, right? Um we don't we those things are not necessarily strategies, they're more you know we consider strategy as singular. So it's like what is the strategy of the company? The strategy of the company is to own the topic of scaling >> okay >> and to normalize scaling and to help millions of entrepreneurs shift from growing a business to scaling a business. That's the strategy of the company. And so when it comes to actually how we execute that strategy, um there's infinite amounts of pathways to do that. The beautiful part about scaling is that it eliminates most of those pathways. Most of those pathways can't get us there. But one of the like one of the core aspects of our strategy which distinguishes us in the noise is we do write these pretty strong fairly blockbuster books, right? My books have sold millions of copies. And so that's a big aspect of our strategy in terms and so for us if we can scale the book right we know we know from our own statistics that every from like one out of every 200 people who read the signs of scaling joint scaling.com >> right like that's just math and so if we get a million readers right of the right readers okay >> um we're going to have our numbers um but we also want to make sure that we're fulfilling our brand promise which is on the inside we're actually fulfilling 10x >> okay >> and so part Part of strategy for us is are we building the right compounding assets.

[00:26:06]>> So one of them is are we releasing you know part of strategy is is there's a there's a thousand ways to distribute >> but which ones can we be an extreme outlier on? I could have a YouTube channel but I don't know if that's where we can stand out right and not not not that not that we couldn't learn that but like what's going to allow us to be distinguished in our space with our ideal clients. We just felt like, you know what, books are are really profound, powerful >> for positioning, authority, etc., but also for teaching. We just thought, let's just lean into that because a big aspect of strategy is what you don't do, right?

[00:26:39]>> And so it's like, if we're going to lean into that, let's lean hard into that.

[00:26:42]Let's become distinguished in that.

[00:26:44]Let's become an extreme outlier in that.

[00:26:45]But also, what that means is there's certain things we're not going to do.

[00:26:48]Yep.

[00:26:48]>> For us, we probably won't have, you know, big Instagrams and things like that, you know, like, but we don't need that because if we get really good at what we're doing, >> um, so yeah, that's kind of how we think about strategy. But also, so, so we already have kind of our own power law book, but it's like now how do we go partner with the right people who have distribution for the right audience and how do we get them the book?

[00:27:08]>> Okay.

[00:27:09]>> Right. So how do we you know through the right fit partners how do we utilize the book which is our core marketing strategy how do we get that leverage into the right audiences with the right partners um >> you know and into the right communities I mean one example which I just shared with you is EO EO's got 25,000 right >> members throughout the world I just spoke at the EO national conference international conference global conference in Ireland so like boom so like there's you know 20,000 entrepreneurs right there who we can just get the book to so the book provides extreme leverage >> right and so that's just one example.

[00:27:39]>> And you want them to buy the book or you give them the book.

[00:27:42]>> We're happy to give it because we're not in the business of selling books. As weird as that sounds, we're in the business of of strategic advising. And I think sometimes people actually try to optimize too many different things.

[00:27:51]>> So like for us, we're happy to give away the book. We're happy if they buy it.

[00:27:54]You know, you you can go buy it on Amazon, but >> we're also just as happy to give it away because we know that, you know, you give away a couple hundred books, you're at least going to get a scaling advisory member back. And so we're happy to make that investment. we're we we'd be happy to give away a million books, you know, and spend 1520$20 million to do that, >> right?

[00:28:14]>> Because if we did that, we'd have a company doing over 100 million revenue.

[00:28:17]>> Okay?

[00:28:18]>> And and the beautiful part about the feedback loops, right? The compounding assets is you bring one of my favorite quotes comes from um from Walt Disney.

[00:28:26]He said, "We don't make movies to make money."

[00:28:28]>> He said, "We make money so that we can make more movies."

[00:28:30]>> Yeah.

[00:28:31]>> And so he was really into mastery, right? Deep into mastery. And so for us, every time we bring in a new client into Scaling.com, >> our strategists have to get better >> cuz our brand promises 10x in 3 years.

[00:28:42]And so everyone that comes in, we have to get better at mastering how do we help this company 10x, right? We do it one scaler at a time. How do we help this company 10x? And then we're researching. So our research gets better.

[00:28:53]>> Our case studies get better. Those case studies inform our knowledge which comes into better and better books. So we're releasing better books. And so then the books bring in more people with better case studies. And so it just becomes this feedback cycle of just getting better and better at the thing that we're trying to master, right? The thing that we've decided to do, which is scale and 10x and mastering that. And um and the thing about um power laws is is that the things that compound, you know, they just separate from other people over time. And so we're creating this we're creating this knowledge, right? Um we're creating this cycle where eventually it just won't be competitive because that's the thing we're focused on.

[00:29:28]>> How do you see your role in the company?

[00:29:30]like what do you what is your primary role in the company? Is it, you know, do you do you go into the woods and and uh you know, when you read the work of like Cal Newport, you know, and go back and and you think about do you go into the woods and come up with these concepts?

[00:29:44]Do you is that your primary role? Is it running the company? Like how do you see yourself? Because, you know, I'm kind of a creative by nature. I like to create concepts. I like to um as much as people think I'm the extrovert or, you know, in front of people, I can do that, but I'm also a creative person by nature. And that's my, you know, that and activating people is kind of my primary skills. How do you think about your skills within the company?

[00:30:07]>> Yeah. I would say I'm pretty similar to you, Coach B. Uh I don't I I think that the the Cal the Cal Newport model makes sense if you don't have clients.

[00:30:16]>> Y >> So he's primarily a thinker.

[00:30:18]>> Y >> but he does he doesn't have to deal with people interfacing with his material. He just releases the book and it does well or doesn't do well and people love it. I love Cal Newport stuff. But for us, because we have a company and a client base, we have to get feedback on the material, >> right? So if I just go to the woods, come up with something and come back and present it to them. No, I need to actually like >> study my members, learn from them, and like what's working, what's not working.

[00:30:45]And so I have to I have to spend more time interviewing and learning and and actually engaging with the audience and engaging with the clients to see where we're still falling short >> and where, you know, I can't just come up with that stuff out in isolation.

[00:30:59]Like I need to actually like study what's going on and get real feedback, real data, and then I can take that and I can still go study big concepts. And so I it's kind of a it's kind of a back and forth. I do need some time alone to process to think to go get new insight but I also have to spend a lot of time actually with the client and ask them >> how what's working not working like where are you still struggling like what you know and so that it's actually informed by data in reality versus just pure theory >> um so that's kind of so my role is I would say that primarily it's like I'm I'm the primary strategist of the company right >> so I'm the one who you know >> you know >> we we like we have a company we have a strategy we're going to we're going to try to accomplish this this task of normalizing scaling throughout the whole world and and helping thousands of companies 10x in three years and so like I'm driving the strategy of the company but also I would say I'm primarily the one who's driving the insight. Do you have a desire to you take a piece of equity of those companies or be involved in that side of that? Because I know in my business model, I was coaching for transaction, right? And no matter how much money they paid me, the amount of money they made was significantly more, >> 10 or 100x more.

[00:32:09]>> Yes. And by far.

[00:32:10]>> And so I learned this early in my career. It's like, you know, if I help a bank make this much money and and I asked the CEO, "How much money have you guys made since I've been working with you?" And he's like, "Oh, we made, you know, 20 or$30 million more dollars."

[00:32:20]And and I'm like, "Well, yeah, but you only paid me this much." And he's like, "Well, you didn't negotiate the contract correctly. You know, if you you know, if you would have got a percentage of that upside or whatever." Do you think like that or do you still or do you think it's it's you're paying for a service and we're going to deliver the service and help you do it. What's your thinking on that?

[00:32:36]>> Right now it's a service.

[00:32:37]>> Okay.

[00:32:38]>> Right now, um, our objective is to 10x companies in 3 years or less and to provide that research that, um, that strategic council and advising and community etc. Um we are bringing in a PE piece um so that we you know for for for companies that are ready for capital and are a right fit for capital um we'll become a more of a like a a partner in that way where we will you know invest and become a a like a part owner in the company right not maybe not a huge one depends on the company but yeah that's going to be a piece of scaling.com as part of our full solution to 10x so it won't be for every company okay but for the ones who you know want that side of um we'd be happy to provide capital, get a piece of the company, and then ultimately help them hit their 10x goal.

[00:33:23]And and so I would see I would see and probably if you talk to us in two or three years, we'll pro, you know, scaling.com will probably be invested in in a couple hundred of the companies, okay, and helping them scale as and we would have a piece of those companies.

[00:33:35]So, a person came up to me last night after you spoke and said, you know, we've had our executive team reading the bookcaling.com. And and I thought, well, that's good, but that's not that's still there's a lot of slippage there. But the what they should really be doing is going throughcaling.com. They should.

[00:33:52]>> And I think a lot of people think, well, if I just read his book, then then that's doing this. But that but but to me I think it was I mean I think Russell Brunson said many years ago and I subscribed to this uh reading my book's not going to change your life. It's going to open your mind. Seeing a person speak is not going to change your life.

[00:34:09]It's going to open your mind. And I kind of subscribe to that. Right. It's different from me reading your book and going yeah that's a good concept versus me going throughcaling.com and having a strategist coach me through it.

[00:34:19]>> Yeah.

[00:34:19]>> So that's the first thing I thought when he said that last night I was like well that's you know that doesn't mean you're going to be able to do it just because you read the book.

[00:34:24]>> Yeah. People are people are uh either overconfident or cheap.

[00:34:30]>> Yes.

[00:34:31]>> Right. Like if I'm serious about something, I want to be in a system, right? It's like I know this might rub people the wrong way, but like I think there is a difference between being spiritual and being religious, right?

[00:34:41]And like for me, I'd rather be in a system that's that's depth, right? And so the same is true like I have a health process, right? And I have a a person I have a system that I'm in. I have a guy that helps me with my health. You know, every 90 days we do blood tests. We we and so it's like I'm in that system. I'm in that system. I'm moving forward. And so yeah, with scaling.com it's like, you know, it's it's very negligible in price. Like the price is extremely low for it's 100x value, but it's like be in a system, >> right?

[00:35:07]>> And and if you're not willing to put yourself in a system, then you're just a dabbler, >> right? And it's like this system is just a process that keeps you going. It ensures you're actually doing the thing and it's it's there to actually hold you accountable, but also to to ensure that you're not getting off track. Like if you you know it's it's it's better to have someone outside of you >> actually saying no you've shifted back to linear or my health coach no Ben like >> you've you've fallen back below your floor like you can do better or let's think better about this >> it's better to have that in your corner so I'm I'm with you. I mean, a lot of people say, "We're reading your book and stuff." I'm all for it, you know, and I think that the ideas are there, but putting yourself in the system and actually saying, "No, we're doing this >> and it's threeear track. We're going to do this. We're going to go through this system. We're going to go through this process and we're actually going to do it."

[00:35:53]>> That's when I know that this person's serious, >> right? Yeah.

[00:35:56]>> That's the difference between a winner and a loser, honestly.

[00:35:58]>> Yeah. And and too many people are casual with their potential and they they do dabble versus decide.

[00:36:02]>> Yeah. I don't think it's good to be casual with that.

[00:36:04]>> No. So last night you said something that I didn't didn't know about you is that you really struggled to learn >> early in life when you went to the community college, right? And you you >> how what happened what happened there that you go boom cuz I was kind of turned on you know I was a coach and and and one of my mentors said if you don't read another book this year go pick up a copy of the seven habits of how they affected people. I was 18. I never read a personal development book. It was very hard to read at 18 that book and but that something about that initiated something in me to want to learn personal development. CVY was my guy for eight years who I studied under. So what changed right there when you went to community college? Cuz I think a lot of people see you today and they think, man, that dude's really smart and he's and he's really intelligent and he's and he's right like you like. So what I think there's a lot of people out there who think they they don't think they're smart or they don't think they can learn or they they've kind of discounted themselves like I'm not good at that.

[00:36:58]Like I hear people say that but tell us about that.

[00:37:01]>> That's called a fixed mindset by the way.

[00:37:02]>> Yes.

[00:37:03]>> And you need to understand you need to understand that your future self is a different person than who you are today.

[00:37:07]>> Yeah.

[00:37:08]>> And that your future self has different co capability.

[00:37:10]>> Yes.

[00:37:10]>> And that the limitations of your present self shouldn't define your future self.

[00:37:15]>> Yep.

[00:37:16]>> Uh and and it's also helpful to recognize and appreciate where you're different from your past self. Mhm.

[00:37:20]>> And to define that. So for me, you know, I'd gone through. So maybe there was again back to the idea of dormant resources, right?

[00:37:27]>> Maybe I have massive capability, but it was all blocked. You know, my parents divorced when I was age 11, went through a lot of trauma. Father was a drug addict and things like that. And so whatever whatever possibilities they were fairly blocked off, um turned off and shut down and bad habits, bad environment, etc. and no big stretching future self >> to actually test myself. And so I barely ended up graduating high school. I was very avoidantbased. You know, I was avoiding difficulties, you know. Um >> and so, but when I graduated high school, I I just thought that the thing I should do is test community college.

[00:38:05]And so I ended up just trying to do two classes and I just couldn't do it. Like I didn't really learn that much in I mean I didn't really learn that much in high school. Um I never pushed myself. I kind of just barely made it through.

[00:38:15]graduated with very low grades. Um, and so when I actually went to community college, it it was a little more challenging, you know, it was just a little it was and it was too challenging for me.

[00:38:23]>> Mhm.

[00:38:24]>> Like I just skated through high school and just did the minimum effort and I never really learned how to learn.

[00:38:30]>> Yeah.

[00:38:30]>> And so when I went one level up, even though community college is not that challenging, it was just too hard for me. Like if I looked at the textbook, my brain would turn off. It just looked too complicated. It looked too difficult.

[00:38:41]And so I just I escaped. I would retreat. I just went back. Id had those habits of if something's hard, I'm going to walk away. I'm going to back off. And so I dropped out after two months. It was just not two months, two weeks.

[00:38:51]>> Wow.

[00:38:51]>> It was just too too too intimidating, too hard, too scary.

[00:38:54]>> Um but what ended up happening was I went and served a mission for my church.

[00:38:58]Um went and did service. And it was on that, you know, and I I give a lot of the credit obviously to God, you know, for, you know, opening things up, right?

[00:39:06]>> But also just having big experiences. I started journaling. I just started reading, >> reading books, reading scripture, reading stuff like CVY.

[00:39:14]>> Yeah.

[00:39:15]>> And and and and opening my mind up to new things >> and um you know, after a short period of time, >> things can open up pretty fast. You know, you just you're reading and stuff.

[00:39:25]And I just became a vacuum. I mean, I read hundreds of books >> and and I started to journal and and um you know, probably had some spiritual gifts in there, but also a lot of it was just just hard, massive repetition, just like you know, reading hard stuff, challenging stuff like and just learning how to do it and and and having a lot of the cobwebs broken off and building new connections and new muscles. I mean the human brain is very plastic and so you know in reading hundreds of books over a few years period of time and just journaling like a you know a lot to journal learning how to write learning how to flesh out thought learning how to access aspects of your subconscious like >> you can really master and develop very quickly and so I just came home from that experience um very capable and and and so then I jumped in back to college and I graduated with my undergrad from start to finish in less than 3 years.

[00:40:14]>> Okay.

[00:40:15]>> Just straight A's.

[00:40:16]>> Mhm. and then obviously went on to do a PhD but like you know and then during the PhD became you know one of the top writers in the world um >> and so it's just it's just learning how to learn you know learning how to break past barriers learning how to filter for what matters cuz you know if I want to go learn >> any topic if I want to go learn engineering I already know >> 8020 right I already know that most things are noise and so what are the few things that matter I already learn I already know how to filter for that if I want to learn a new language right it's like well what's the few things that I really need to understand to learn Chinese. Yeah, it's going to be difficult. If I want to learn piano, it's like what are the critic what are the critical things to learn. So, you just really learn how to learn.

[00:40:53]>> Um and it and but obviously you have to have a why why to do it.

[00:40:56]>> Okay. Now, let's finish with this one.

[00:40:59]Um you mentioned that that why you know the book I have out right now is called screw your why. Wh >> and the the subtitle is find your skill, find your problem and what's your purpose find you.

[00:41:10]>> Yeah. So, you know, after coaching people for 37 years, it's for a long time, and I'm a big advocate for Simon Synynic. I think he's brilliant. I think that was a a great concept.

[00:41:21]But I also think that I could know my why and still be non-motivated.

[00:41:28]>> I agree.

[00:41:29]>> I could know my why and um lack direction on what to do. I could I could be financially struggling and know my know my why. I like because goals better than why like I do this because of these reasons. What's your fundamental belief about locating purpose? Because this book that that I have out now is really a book about purpose, but I just go about it a different way, right? It's like it's like find your skill, find your problem, the usage of a skill, right? How do you take a birthday gift as a as a as a child that you were given with or manufactured with and convert that to an ability? An ability turns to a skill and skill solves a problem. And in the process of this, you get what I call little purpose tokens. It's just it's just like a little token. It's like that was good, man. What's your what's your thought about that?

[00:42:15]>> Yeah, I I I'm I'm closer to your thought on this. I I I don't think you have to go and have some you don't have to go back to the woods and find some big why and now all of a sudden you're a new person. Um for me, I'm closer to Franc Victor Frankl. And what Victor Frankl said was is that your goal gives you purpose. Okay?

[00:42:33]>> And he says that without a goal, you can't have purpose. And and so I'm a big believer that humans are are driven by goals. Not only your identity, but also your you get purpose through goals. And so rather than saying what's my why? Oh, then I'll set goals. It's like no, the goal itself actually gives you meaning.

[00:42:47]>> The goal gives you purpose. And so for us, for me right now, like you know, we made a decision to go and and help companies scale and transform their life. And so that gives me >> purpose. That goal and that objective and that thing I'm trying to solve >> gives me meaning and it gives me direction. And it allows me to work on something beyond myself, you know, my children obviously, you know, but it's it's not just to be a father. It's it's it's how can I help and serve them, right? And so, yeah, I'm I'm just um I I kind of with you on that. I do think that humans do need purpose.

[00:43:19]>> Yes, >> humans do need, you know, that's without purpose, we perish to some degree, but I think that the purpose is is is constantly under construction. It's a process. It's not it's not a thing. It's a process. and that like you said those tokens and so it's it's constant. It's not just a oh there it is now I'm done >> right >> I think that yeah I'm very much closer to you where I think you you do need compelling reasons.

[00:43:41]>> Yes.

[00:43:41]>> You know um but I think that the goal itself can give you those and and the and the people you serve can give you those.

[00:43:48]>> Well this has been fascinating man.

[00:43:50]Thank you for coming to the greatness factor the last few days. We've really enjoyed having you here. Our members have absolutely loved having you. You got a a great spirit about you. Thank you.

[00:43:58]>> And very very talented and very skilled, which I already knew. But but being with you last two days, I'm I'm honored that we partner with you. So my belief is we kind of get companies ready to do this like build a flywheel of momentum, activate the business owner to want to get a seat at a bigger table and and then there's an appropriate time where it's like, okay, I my work here is done and now it's time for them to go to you and scaling.com. And so we've already had members texting me today saying, go ahead and give me that link so I can enroll with Dr. Hardy. We're we're very excited about this and I think you and I are going to be doing a lot of things together. So, thank you, man. I appreciate you, >> brother. I I'm grateful to be partnered with you. I think you're absolutely world class.

[00:44:38]>> Thank you.

[00:44:38]>> The world class at what you do. And I think it's smart when you say, "And this is what I don't do."

[00:44:43]>> Yeah.

[00:44:43]>> Cuz that's strategy.

[00:44:44]>> Yep.

[00:44:45]>> And so, I just We're honored to to be able to work with your people because I know that they're going to be extremely well prepared to scale. I think that the people It'll be fun actually to track anyone that comes from Coach Bert. what is their what is their likelihood to scale? And I'd say it's probably going to stand out because you've prepared these people beyond the beyond.

[00:45:03]>> Nice, man. Thank you very much. All right, another episode of the big table, folks, right here at the Level 10 Studios. You never know who's going to be at the greatness factory. Uh and we built this place as the number one aspirational environment on the planet, a place of positive expectancy, and a place where uh people can become people of interest and and get a seat at a much bigger table. Dr. Benjamin Hardy, get his books. go to scaling.com and we'll post some links on here and get more people into the program.

[00:45:30]>> Thanks, brother.

[00:45:31]>> Thank you, guys.