This video debate explores Ghana's relationship with the IMF, examining whether the country's economy is truly recovering after the 2023 bailout. The discussion reveals that Ghana has sought IMF assistance 17 times since independence, raising questions about economic mismanagement and the need for deliberate national development strategies. Key arguments center on whether IMF programs provide genuine policy credibility or merely mask underlying economic weaknesses. The debate highlights the tension between external economic discipline and national sovereignty, with participants questioning whether Ghana can achieve self-sufficiency through state farms, proper digitalization, and reduced reliance on international financial institutions. The conversation emphasizes that sustainable economic recovery requires deliberate government planning, fiscal discipline, and addressing systemic issues like corruption and political interference in economic development.
The Big Conversation: Beyond the IMF Bailout: Is Ghana’s Economy Truly Back on Track?Added:
to know.
Or the government knows exactly what he's doing. What do you know?
Uh good morning to your listeners and those who are viewing online wherever they are. Mhm. Um I just listened to my my brother Edudzi Tameklo is in your studio TV3. Right. Doing marvelously well. Good morning to him and um let me borrow a leaf from the NPP booklet. Good morning to His Excellency John Dramani Mahama. Mhm.
Um IMF has been with Ghana for a long time.
>> Mhm.
Several governments have been to IMF.
>> Mhm.
However, the it it never used to be a political issue. Mhm.
Until about 2015 >> Mhm.
uh when we had a something lecture series at Central University. Mhm. Mhm. By By Dr. Bawumia.
>> Exactly. Okay.
Where he said that we were going to IMF because of recklessness and corruption. Mhm.
So that's sort of increased the ante of the IMF issue. Mhm. We Ghana has been to IMF several times. Right. Nobody ever hears about it.
>> Mhm.
But um until that lecture series. Mhm. So when the time came around 20 21 there about and things began to be bad Mhm. and people were advising that hey, come on, let's look at going to the IMF. Right.
And we had all the stories. We are very proud nation. We cannot go to IMF.
>> Mhm. And we ended up in IMF on a on a stretcher. Mhm. That's when going and coming out of IMF became an issue.
Mhm.
Other than that, it wasn't an issue. So that was when people began to ask that are you aware that going to IMF is as a result more reckless spending and corruption.
If you are aware, then which ones did you take part in? For us, we are now going to the IMF.
Then you watch the famous >> Did you get the answer?
No, we can never get the answer. Why won't you get the answer? You are aware >> Because the people who were, you know, apart from Kwesi Botchwey, we've never had any finance minister as long as Ken Ofori-Atta.
That's right.
And we've never had any so-called economic management team that they ask the whole world whether that team is not a solid team.
They go about their work diligently. You know, in 2021, there about they even comprised a team that included Franklin Cudjoe and the rest of some economic >> The dollar dollar stabilization >> committee or something.
>> committee. Yes. Yeah.
And all that together with the economic management team which was being managed by the vice presidential candidate then, vice presidential candidate in 2015, and became vice president in 2016-17.
Yet we went to IMF.
So, currently, what is happening? But before then, where's my brother Nurudeen?
Which of the Nurudeens? Oh, the one who is a nice man but in the wrong party.
Oh.
Kamal >> Kamaldeen, yes. Kamal >> Kamaldeen, Kamaldeen, Kamaldeen is a fine gentleman.
>> I told you. I said he's a fine gentleman but in the wrong party. Oh, how?
Yes.
>> You can't all be at one place.
Oh, but when you say good things, You you were encouraging your brother.
Diversity is important, counsel. Yes, but not every diversity yields fruit.
Some don't yield fruit fruit, so Kamal Dasbar I am so sorry to be distracted by the fine gentleman.
However, we had a situation where the vice president who was the economic management team leader. Right. Who we were told was brought in just to stabilize the economy. Mhm.
Was also there when finally we were led to IMF.
And you remember the famous video by uh honorable Kennedy Agyapong when he said those who are taking us to the IMF cannot lead us out of the IMF. It was a political talk, was it not? To for for him to get the the the flag bearer bid, but he didn't. But with all respect to you, going to the IMF was not a religious thing. It was a political decision. So, it must be accompanied by political talk.
So, what he said then was actually the reality of what was on the ground.
Today, Mhm. we are exiting the IMF with certain indicators which are very good.
>> Mhm.
The the stabilization of the dollar, the inflation as you were you were >> [clears throat] >> already you mentioning all over the spending is being with some discipline and we are back from the junk the boiler status to a B with a positive outlook if we continue along all this. So, I think that all that we need to do now is to say that one of my trainings is in a continuous improvement. In continuous improvement, they say that if you are a big woman or a big man and you are boarding a flight, they will not squeeze the they will not open more seats for you. You can buy two, but that particular one will be what you have to fit in. So, you either have to reduce your weight Mhm.
>> or you don't board at all.
>> Or go to business class. Exactly.
>> [laughter] >> So, in this situation now, what we need to do now is that hey, we are in the narrow path. Let us maintain that narrow path. You see, going to the IMF, it is not something to be celebrated.
When they exited the IMF, we had Kenkey party. Mhm.
Unlike the low-key exit that we had just last week. Now, a lot of people have to bear the brunt of going to the IMF the the IMF tells you who to how many how many persons you need to employ, what you need to cut, taxes you need to do ABC. Then of course, before when the Mahamudu Bawumia was brought in he told us that one of the things he's coming to do is that the structural deficiency of our tax system where a lot of people in the informal sector don't pay taxes.
And he's going to increase that. That never happened. We were also here where they spent so much on 1D1F. Where are they now?
Now they were saying that that this was going to be one of the backbones of the country. Where's the 1D1F now?
Was this supposed to be continuous government injection of money into it?
Where where are the 1D1F? Those were the reckless decisions they took. Then the NABCO or NABCO NABCO, yeah. NABCO, that NABCO is the drug enforcement agency.
>> NABCO.
The the the NABCO >> Nation Builders Corps. Yes, the It's not Bawumia apprentices. It's Nation Builders Corps. Build Ghana, feed Ghana, teach Ghana. So so have we finished building the the the country? Is it not a process? Yeah, they finished with the I mean they hesitated somewhere even before the the last election. Right. So does it mean that they are finished building Ghana? Those were the areas they used money for which were supposed to give us short-term relief but it ended up putting us into IMF. Then with all the haircut and everything. So what we have now, this short period that we have fiscal discipline, we have inflation under control, we have the macroeconomic stability, we also have the exchange rate stable. I think that all we need to do is to maintain those This exit from the IMF but it it's more like okay, we have left but we have our freedom but there's a big brother also looking over us.
What is the sustainability plan?
To make sure that these good indicators we are seeing is sustained such that we don't have to return to the IMF for another dance.
Yes, I I made a comment earlier When you are you are fat or big, you have to reduce. Right. So, somewhere along the line we have to reduce and be on the narrow path.
One of them is the fiscal discipline. We don't spend where we don't have.
Even though we have been allowed to come back into the market, we don't borrow recklessly. As someone once told us that if the if it's only involves borrowing, even their 18-year-old son would have been able to manage a country. And they ended up borrowing more than what an 18-year-old would have done. So, what we're doing currently uh we need to keep doing those things. Make sure that there's there's fiscal discipline, there's no recklessness. The steps that the Central Bank and the Ministry of Finance are taking to make sure the dollar is stable. We keep Then, of course, there are certain things that are beyond us. Like what? Oil prices.
Mhm. Okay? They are they are beyond us.
So, in that instance, we only pray and hope that the global situation will be good for all of us. I know my brother here is going to come in to say, "Oh, Why are you anticipating what he will say?
>> He's not speaking.
>> I'm a lawyer. That's what we do. Okay.
You anticipate what your your colleague would So, I know he's going to talk about the fact that there was the Ukraine What if he doesn't? If he doesn't, I've said it for him.
There was the Ukraine Russia war, which in fact, he needs to be reminded that the war is still ongoing anyway.
There was the COVID, which he needs to be reminded that Madam Felicia told us that they shared the COVID money like >> Felicia Tetteh. Uh whatever she Sanerigu. Sanerigu. Yes, Sanerigu. That they shared the COVID money like groundnuts.
There were some for regional executives, some for constituency executives, some for MPs, some for parliamentary candidates, and how they all shared that money, etc. So, he's We When he comes to that line, he should have those things at the back of his mind. But, at the end of the day, with the big brother as you are saying, yes, sometimes it's good. But, you see, it's the integrity that counts. Integrity is doing something very well if nobody's watching you. So, it's the integrity that counts. So, for our good and for the good of tomorrow, we borrow a phrase from uh uh President Kufuor when he said, "Let's bite the bullet."
And take the very strong, decisive uh moves. And when we do that, I believe that we might not go to the IMF in the next foreseeable future. Okay.
Come on.
Good morning, my brother. Good morning.
How are you? I am good, and you? Uh greater than Accra.
>> Very well. Just to remind our folks that we are live also on Kesmi 107.1 in Tamale. It's always a pleasure. Let me say a very good morning to the listeners of um 3 FM Mhm. and also the listeners of Kesmi Mhm. in Kesmi FM in Tamale.
Mhm. And also good morning to counsel uh you see there [clears throat] right here.
>> Mhm.
Um of course, he alludes to me as a nice person. Mhm. However, I my I'm in the wrong party.
Uh interesting. The The The The doings of true democracy in this country >> Mhm. is in the Patriotic Party. Mhm. The doings of true democracy in this country.
Those who fought for us to now today liberate ourselves is in the Patriotic Party. And lest we forget, lawyers have celebrated >> Mhm.
President Kufuor and his then Attorney General, Nana Addo Dankwa Akufo-Addo, for repealing the criminal libel law. It was actually a turning point to ensure that free speech is not gagged as we are seeing today. Mhm.
Unfortunately, indirectly, the good party that he belongs to Mhm.
uh is is is is is indirectly trying to introduce the criminalization of free speech in this country.
>> How is that How is that happening?
>> Of course. Today, you How can somebody write just on a on his wall, "Dumsor is back" and the person is arrested? For God's sake.
"Dumsor is back." That's my crime. Mhm.
And I'm arrested?
For God's sake. When in fact, what is dumsor? Lights goes off and on. Mhm.
Just yesterday in the evening, we saw it.
And somebody writes, "Dumsor is back" and it's a crime.
Hey, this is a serious matter. Let's get serious.
The government has jumped out of the hold of the IMF, but there's an interim >> just coming to that. I was going to say >> No wonder How do you view it?
>> Of Of course, to come before I come to IMF, no wonder the venerable, respected, or the venerable I shouldn't be I should say the venerable Kwesi Pratt, Mhm. the senior journalist in this country has said that he's actually worried for President Mahama. Why Why did he say that?
>> Did you listen to him? I listened to him, but you want to add some more flesh to the bone.
>> In fact, he's pitying him.
That he actually proclaimed reset agenda. Mhm.
And is that the reset we're seeing?
He proclaimed coming to leave a legacy.
Mhm. Is that the legacy we're seeing?
That in the words of Kwesi Pratt, >> Mhm.
appointees of President Mahama are failing him. I didn't say it.
But he knows more than me. Mhm.
>> He has so much information than me.
Appointees of President Mahama who proclaimed reset agenda that this country was rotten, that in fact this is our second independence we are going to get.
Kweku Baako says they are failing him.
All they are interested in is to look for leadership and look for money.
And he's sad.
Today, my brother said that's a good party.
That is your scorecard.
Not too long ago. These are my words, scorecard. Yes, that's a scorecard of the NDC.
>> Give me my flowers.
>> Laid out by the venerable Kweku Baako.
That they are failing the president.
>> 1 year, 6 months down the line. 5 months.
>> Okay, 5 months down the line. That they are they are failing that they are failing the president.
>> Yes. And that he feels sorry for the president.
>> proclaimed going to give a better legacy. I've learned from my mistakes when I was coming. You only come and 1 year after 5 months a seasoned person who analyzes governance tells you that you are failing.
You should be worried.
>> So for you, the government has done nothing. I have not said it. I'm just citing somebody who is even deep to be with them.
>> what do you say, Kweku Baako Atubiga?
Res ipsa loquitur. It speaks for itself.
Absolutely.
The lawyers are here. Anybody who is buying petrol at 14 CD 60 pesewas.
Remember, they took it at 14 CD 50 pesewas. It's from Akufo-Addo. And he said it WAS ROTTEN, IT'S BAD.
Today floor price is around 14 CD 60 pesewas.
And when I say floor price what now goes of course the markups >> So you move to somewhere at 16, like Shell and other places, maybe not to mention names, but look at the other stations.
You move to some place prices today and you say, "Oh, it's normal." But you sold diesel to us at 23 cedis per liter. Yes.
Of course, we will come we will come to that topic anyway, but no problem. The vulnerabilities, the whatever, how what happened? You asked a question. There's a topic we're going to discuss, and I'll tell you.
>> No, you because you went there. That's why you >> But of course, I just wanted to tell you that that's why I said rest absolutely too. Anybody who buys that Mhm.
and still pay one cedi who pay one cedi to this government, this inept government, you pay one cedi today for doing nothing, that person knows that actually things are not well. Okay.
>> Now, let me let me come to IMF. First of all, IMF is for me to all developing countries, and let's get serious about some of these we coming to sit down and make people look good.
>> Mhm.
I've always been with the idea that we have everything as a country. Mhm. We don't need to go for a bailout. Right.
That is my position.
I've always had that position. Why? Mhm.
It is as a result of mismanagement of what we have.
That we don't put things right. We don't get our priorities right. Mhm. That is why we have to run to IMF to help us secure policy credibility. [clears throat] >> Mhm.
You see, since independence, Ghana has been to the IMF 17 times.
That's right.
It's unfortunate.
17 times since independence. Mhm.
To what end? What have we gotten out of it? But under your watch, you told us that we are proud nation will never go to the IMF.
>> matter. It matters. Well, you see, one thing I I enjoy listening to. I wanted to tell you when I come for >> this program.
People like your program, but to be honest with you, Mhm. some of your chip-ins are skewed towards what you want.
>> No, because because I'm asking you these These are These are the honest These are >> Under our watch, but under their watch, what did they say? When they took it to send you an act and slept in good rooms and said they were doing homegrown policy, It was only Kwabena It was only Kwabena who went. You didn't You all didn't go. It doesn't matter. It matters. They claim they know better, AND THEY ARE GOING TO SEND YOU TO put together and develop what we call homegrown policies.
>> You were invited. You were invited. You were invited. You were invited. You were invited. You didn't turn up. You were only Granted we didn't go.
Granted we didn't go. You are the best.
You said you are going to do homegrown policy. You didn't go anywhere. Did you go to IMF in the corner?
Granted we didn't go. You said you were going to do homegrown policy in century.
And then you took Equiano who went there sleeping good rooms and came and told you I slept in a very nice room and I had Let the dead rest in peace. I'm telling you. That's what you did. But but For them you are not citing them.
You are citing NPP who said they will not go. But but I'm saying So we should come and do the best thing and then end this and come and destroy. We were called Sanballat and Tobias by Ken Ofori-Atta who is not in the picture.
>> whether we are called And we were told that we are proud nation. We would have done better It's not equalization. I started by saying that you very good. You see Allow me. Lawyer had flowed.
You see? I started by saying that Come on. Come on. Hold on. Come on. Come on. Come on.
Come on.
Hold on. When you came, I gave you a 4 minutes to talk about what you wanted to talk about. I have allowed you to speak.
If now I'm If now I'm asking questions like I asked him, you should allow me. Don't Don't paint that picture. We are good friends. So tell me tell me tell me tell me tell me tell me tell me I'm putting you on the defensive. I'm not putting you on the defensive. I won't be on the defensive.
He knows me. I I won't do that.
I said Ghana since independence has been to IMF 17 times.
The latest one was in 2023 where we went for the 3 billion dollar bailout to ensure that our macroeconomic indicators look good.
President Mahama in Switzerland, I listened to you when you played his voice. He said something.
He said there's a saying in Africa that the one who plants a tree today is not the one who sits under that tree.
Therefore in 2023 going to IMF was to benefit Ghana going forward, not at the instantaneously.
Today, if we are reaping and getting benefits of the macro stability, it was as a result of debt restructuring, as a result of going back to IMF, as a result of ensuring that at least some expenditures were looked at, and as a result of ensuring that some discipline or physical discipline was put in place, which we are seeing today.
>> Did you need IMF to tell us how to manage our affairs?
>> always needed IMF. That's why I told you 17 times. We have always needed them.
Unfortunately. Unfortunately, it's unfortunate. I don't support it, but we have always needed them.
NO GOVERNMENT CAN PRIDE itself that I have not been to IMF. And even I will receive there are some erroneous impressions out there.
>> didn't go to IMF.
>> I'm saying that to what end? We saw what we call galloping inflation under John Mahama because he never got his indicators right.
Things were haphazard.
I've read about his government.
>> But he brought you food and feed yourself. He fed you. No, but it it was He fed the country. But it was a serious disaster in the end. What called for the coup d'état? That's in history.
You see, I took my time and I read some of these things just to understand myself properly. [clears throat] But of course, I'm trying to say that now, as we sit today, President Mahama saying that when you plant a tree, you're not the one you may not be the one to sit under the shade.
It's voluminous.
When the tree was planted in 2023, to ensure that some physical discipline was put in place, we were expecting that the fruits of it will come. No wonder that when this government was sworn in, immediately the first budget was read, the the what the budget they ran they ran with was I mean Anta's budget.
By three months time before their budget came in March.
That was a transitional budget.
>> In the course of the February, March, indicators started looking good.
And then of course, S&P came to say, "Look, the reserves that you guys built, the disciplines that you put in together, the GDP that you did, all this thing has come to help you your economy.
You understand? But you say you want to call us what?
The baddest people ever before. You are not You are not guilty as charged. Never.
That's why I told you we have a history.
We must ensure that we follow that history.
Pumskat. Mhm. I was a kid. Mhm. And uh in the '80s.
>> '80s when Jerry Rawlings Pumskat came. Pumskat. Mhm. What's a you a you A coup. Absolutely. What's an IMF program?
That time Rawlings and Co. were struggling.
I'm told it was there was hunger in Ghana '83, '84. I was really maybe relatively 6 years whatever. There about. Okay?
>> Mhm. Yeah, that was about around 6 years, 7 years. I was not up to 7 years even. You get it? But I hear it was so serious. So these are all programs that we ruled out before.
>> Mhm.
See, your question for us to discuss this morning is We we are out of IMF or we may be out of IMF because we are actually not out yet.
We'll be out on the 27th of July.
>> Mhm. It's not out yet. Because they need to evaluate what we call our policy coordination instrument. To ensure that they >> Are we taking the right decision?
You know, whether we like it or not, that was what the program said. When this government came, they extended a bit. Mhm. You understand? And whether we like it or not, it's time. When it's time, there's nothing you can do. The last tranche of the money will come.
>> Mhm. your account and you are done. The last tranche of the money hasn't hit our account yet. Mhm. Which is about 1.something billion.
>> the government is not opting to to continue the program. They are opting to have IMF lurking around.
>> to move forward. Lurking around, but they will want to move. And I'm asking is that the is that the best of decisions?
>> you see, we have already tied our hands by being members one. We have tied our hands by signing into the EFF that they they program. Right. We have also tied our hands by telling them that we monitor whatever we do so that we can have physical indicators and economic indicators. Well, you understand? So, whether we like it or not, it's an agreement between us and IMF, and they have work to do. And they have a country director >> IPC the best option for us at this point?
>> Oh, you see the the the the the the the You are talking about PCI?
>> Mhm. PCI, sorry.
>> No, obviously, the PCI The PCI is an option. Mhm. Whether I say when you are exiting an IMF program, the PCI ought to be put in place.
>> Mhm. You understand? IMF country director will have to look at the staff staff level agreement will sit down, do meetings, they will go back to Washington, and they now convince Washington that look, what we have seen Ghana and the trajectory they are going, they are right. I mean, they are on the right path. Therefore, they may not need any program. That is where credit raters will now pick it up. Fitch and the rest will say, "Oh, Ghana is improving if Ghana is bounced back, this has done."
Then we get the confidence back, and investors will now start coming in. But you see, we I told you at the initial that we get these things wrong Mhm. as a people. Why?
Tell me.
Today, Ghana, if we are deliberate, can export proper fruits out there. Mhm.
Ghana, if we are deliberate, we can develop local industries. We have one thing one after another. No, you see you see I'm I'm talking about everything >> I I will give you I will give you space to to do your rebuttals if you want.
>> Ghana, if we are deliberate, we can do mechanized farming. I am one of the people one if me, Kamal Deen, in the most likely event maybe in future, I don't know when, that I am made an agric minister, one thing I will do is to introduce back state farms.
Because we have But but then but the state lands are all gone. Are they not gone?
>> Don't worry. Introduce back state farms.
I'm talking about Where would you be planting? Because the lands That is it's easy. Go to Damongo agric lands, they are gone.
>> we have so much arable land that we are not using in this country. Mhm.
We nearly got it right with Quality Grain and the NDC.
Af Ag rice sub. Right.
>> And we failed as a result of corruption.
>> Same thing we did with Pwalugu Multipurpose Dam. I'm saying that we failed. So, that's what I'm saying that if we are deliberate, we can develop this country. Bring state farms. We have 16 regions. Every region, we have YEA.
YEA include the young people. Every region, tell me that you are going to do 200 acres or 200 whatever. I don't know.
The number, just get a large number of this particular depending on the area and what you can do.
>> Let's do hectares. Hectares, depending on the area and what we can grow. You get what I mean? You just mentioned Operation Feed Yourself. We want the government to own the farms. We want the government to collaborate with YEA. And then other employment agencies, forestry and whatever, employ the youth, bring the youth, give them uniform, put them on the state farms.
Okay? And then the government brings in the implement. It belongs to the government. Government now builds, provide the food, and then push it to buffer stock.
Push it to buffer stock, save it.
You get what I mean? I tell you, we will end up helping ourselves by not importing in what we already have.
Today as we speak, local rice farmers are saying there's no market.
Meanwhile, we are importing foreign rice to sell, killing their market.
Okay? We don't even have a single rice mill for government in this country.
We cannot have a rice mill factory Private private people have it. I know Min Ta Kanda has it.
Asante Akyem North former Member of Parliament What they have, what their capacity?
Even I have a friend in Nasia who has one, Shaibu. He's my friend. But what their capacity? What money has he got, man? But government has the wherewithal.
First of all, you have a sovereign guarantee.
You have a way to go out and look for money. That private person doesn't have much.
>> That's right. You get what I mean? So, secondly, you have also what it takes to say that state institutions can help you. You get what I mean? That private person doesn't have that.
You have National Service who said that they are going to do farms. They tried.
Every year, the number of people who do national farm service, put all of them to the farms.
Whether they like it or not. State farms are here. You are posted to the farm.
Go and learn. Kwabena Nu started it. I I think it's continuing now.
>> am trying to say that we have opportunities, but we have not been deliberate about these opportunities.
And that is how I'm not I don't want to read MPP NDC industry. I'm talking about a country that we can help ourselves.
>> When we do all this put in place, why IMF will come and tell us that we are we are going to look into your independent power producers contract.
And because you are paying much money to them. Today, we are ending IMF, but we are not ending the debt with independent power producers. You know that.
It's going to increase.
We are not ending it. We are ending IMF.
As we speak today, IMF is coming to tell you that, "Hey, don't take workers here.
Don't do this here. Don't do here."
Conditionalities.
>> Conditionalities. We are ending IMF.
Those conditions will go, but then now we'll start picking workers again, and we don't have money to pay them. A country where we have to borrow to come and pay salary.
That country is not planning.
We are not looking at productivity. We are always looking at production. We do production and it doesn't come. And productivity doesn't come.
>> each time we start this conversation about rice farming, sugar, oil, chicken, you have people who are connected to the various political parties who get who imports the things to the country, and they would try to block everything that Let me tell you. They are not these people. They are not NDC or NPP.
Every businessman is skewed towards his interest.
When my brother NDC comes, some of them claim I'm NDC.
And use him to get whatever authorities that they want or permit that they want to start importing whatever they are coming.
There may be some tokens.
You understand?
But because of our greed, maybe when they give you 10% you take it and you are fine. Right.
>> You forgotten of the collective goal.
And that is what has happened. The next time NPP comes, they also come to Kamala and say, "Me, I'm MPV, oh. I've been trying your and then they come in again." That is how businessmen use politicians in this country.
And we are quiet.
And the country is not developing.
That is why Emmanuel Amma Akyeampong said something, "If the beautiful ones may not be born yet." Are not yet born.
Oh, I know you're born. In my words, I said, "May not be born yet."
[clears throat] You understand? We need to be deliberate about some of these things in future.
And if you are not and we continue on this trajectory, people will keep talking like this.
We will remain as talk, I mean, talkers.
We will remain as people who what? At home talk shop.
I have not seen pragmatic policies. Me, my panacea is that in order not to go to IMF again or Bretton Woods institutions for help again, first of all, whether we like it or we do not like it, every region must have a state farm. And that state farm must be over 200,000 acres.
Depending on what they're farming. But but you see, you look at the template of plant and my final one to you before I come to console.
The template of planting for food and jobs, if you look at that document, it says that every ministry department agency should have its own farm. Yeah.
That did not happen.
>> Yeah, you see, that is it. That for me, with the greatest of respect, that to coordinate it is not going to be easy.
You understand? Yes, somebody will make the argument that we used to have, you know, food distribution company. We used to have rice mills. They've all condemned. We used to have meat factory.
All of these were sold under the PNDC.
Meat market. We had planned the structure.
Today, when you go to advanced countries like Italy and other places, they what they did 100 something years ago, they're still keeping it.
But we failed along the line, but with this divestiture implementation committee in 1985, when NDC brought it and then sold all our factories, Sold everything out. All those ones, yeah.
And we didn't plan ourselves. So, today we can really go back. We are not many. We are 33 million people.
The government should be deliberate about it. The government of Dr. Al-Haji Mahmud Bawumia, inshallah, the president of the Republic of Ghana coming in 2020 2020 2028, sworn in 2029.
I pray and hope that he sees this.
Let us run. You know, government private can run together.
But if you say we are giving everything to private, we end up destroying this country because the greed and selfishness is too much within our system. Why? We are in a country where people now add some colors to palm oil to sell to you.
Okay, let me >> It's not serious. So, I think that this IMF program, we are not out yet. We may be out on the 27th of July, but if we are getting out, sadly you just told me that inflation is increasing.
Do you know that?
>> 3.2 to 3.4 >> Absolutely. That is why the economists told them that earlier on. Don't be gloating. Don't be too happy. What you came to meet has helped you to get to this level. And then continue with that.
But sustaining it may not be easy. So, I pray and hope that you are able to sustain it. Even though you are [clears throat] making comparison, it's not 54, and I saw the sarcasm in it anyway.
>> No, there's no sarcasm. No, I mean, it was my sarcastic. I mean, I I I mean, I'm a communicator. I analyze. Fast as a secret. Fast as a secret.
>> But you see, so I'm trying to say that this indicator will start. So, if you don't put things right, we may have a problem again. Now, physical exchange rate, what is it? Today, we are told that the city has started depreciating again.
And as a result It's weakening by by 9.8% also.
You never know.
So, I think that all these things ought to be looked at properly before we exit finally to have a PCI that will help this country. I hear you, counsel. You had some rebuttal to raise. Let me give you a minute or two to do that. anything that of course you would have I'll allow I'll allow him. Allow him. Allow him. He is behaving exactly like a a litigating [clears throat] lawyer.
The man is The man is learning so fast here, so >> [laughter] >> But I want to say that When he wears his wig, later to join you at the bar, you will see him Oh, he'll be a good one.
>> [laughter] >> He'll be a good one. By the time he's joining the bar, I'm sure he would have visited the party here.
>> [laughter] >> Um but when you pray particularly MPP members pray for Ghana.
And and genuinely pray for Ghana.
I mean, I saw a video of old men and women singing song Doomsor ba oh.
Oh, come on. I cringe.
Old men and women? Yes, they are not children.
They are not babies. They are old men. I mean, they are they are not children.
>> that Doomsor is back.
>> Yes.
Imagine.
So that's why you are arresting people.
You sit here telling years that, you know, when I was doing my masters in Belgium Mhm. a a Polish lady approaches to study about Ghana. Right. And he said, "There's pickpocket everywhere, but when you go on Ghana web, you see them written clearly that beware of pickpockets in Accra." He said, "Who does that?"
He said, "There's even pickpockets in her country, the Poland." Mhm. But nobody writes it on the internet to say I'll allow him to.
Allow him to. Uh there's but nobody nobody puts it on the right internet to say that >> To tarnish the image of the country.
Granted that even what he's saying But that's a crime crime. Is that a crime or >> I'm coming. I'm coming. But by our counter nature, we I'm I'm coming. I'm I'm I haven't landed. Okay. Please land.
>> Granted that that is exactly what happened that the guy was arrested.
Granted. Which I believe is not true.
Granted. I mean, when you are you are washing your dirty linen in public this way, it rubs on you, too.
It rubs on you. This is a party that recently wrote to the IMF after somebody has eaten fufu and uh say that, "Hey, let me write to IMF." This is a party that went to Britain to say don't grant us independence. Or you do all these things for mother Ghana. That's what I'm saying when you pray genuinely. I love the way you use the word inshallah. When when you pray genuinely pray for Ghana.
Such that by the time if ever you your candidate will become president, the country will be soft for him to govern.
I'm taking a leaf from your book that you said that you made it good for Ghana for MP NDC to Does it mean that in 2017 [clears throat] when you took over NDC also made it good for you.
I can give you I can compare and contrast. Okay. They did not. Okay.
I leave I leave I leave I leave the I leave the I leave the the jury the jury the jury out there to be to decide. But you see he's he's we are aware we are totally aware.
We are totally aware.
>> party is not the best party. I said that MPP he said MPP is the best party and I said that we are aware by the 38% they got as the best party. Oh. That's that's that's that's one. I don't know yet to fact. And and and and and you see Johnny I have I have 40 40 41% or something. The easy game to clarify that it was not 38%.
>> one thing about N N There's one thing about MPP.
They always are good at recalibration.
Ah. Oh, but this was the easy one. Ah, they are talking about recalibration.
Dollar CD they will recalibrate. Economy they will recalibrate. Election results they will recalibrate. So if they move from 38 to 41 as you are saying it's another recalibration. Let's move on.
But this was the easy that brought their figure. Yes. Let's move on. I mean even the Bank of Ghana brought figures but it was recalibrated under MPP. So it's recalibration. I mean Did you Did you Would you honestly put your hand on chest Johnny and tell us that you had an answer to the question you asked Kamaldeen.
I don't know.
Perhaps don't answer me, but he went on every area in this economy from Palm scart to Agua to Agua uh 983 >> 983 hunger bush fires, Ghana must go from Nigeria You must know your history. and all that. But he was he was telling us about the economy, how the economy has Then went on went on to talk to us about what we need to do Mhm. to be self-sustaining.
>> A great state farms.
>> Now, my people say that when somebody wants to give you cloth Mhm. look at the one the person is >> You have to say it in the vessel we can understand.
So, if a mentally disabled person wants to give you cloth to use, look at the one Please offering you that. and the one he has himself.
We were here when we had 1D 1F. Mhm.
It's a failure.
Why is it failure?
There is none you can't go now and point to any of those factories and tell us it's it's working and it is still in that same. I have one in my in my area plywood factory in Horley. Anybody who knows will tell you.
Go and check.
They will just go around see somebody wants you are slightly affiliated with MPP they will brand it and give you 1D 1F.
We have 1D 1 dam. 1V 1 dam. 1V 1 dam. 1 village 1 dam.
Where are they now? At a stage, the one in charge told us that we are not talking about Akosombo type of dam.
That's how Akumfi Yes, that's what he told us. Now, if that 1V 1D was operational, you will not be telling us today to think about how to grow in those communities.
>> I I to the then agric minister. I interviewed him one-on-one Dr. Afriyie Akoto. He said that that one village one dam idea was utopian. Good. He told me that was when he wanted to become president flag bearer. I interviewed him one-on-one on TV3. He said it was utopian. I said, "Ah, but you can't be telling me this now after 6 years of being agriculture After 6 years of being agriculture minister, you can't be telling me that."
No, no, relax. I got time to relax. I'm watching the time. Come on. Relax. Come on. Relax. all the interjections you did. You said you are a nice man.
Perhaps you are taking your nice man nature too far.
>> a nice man. Yes, he is a jolly good fellow but in the wrong party I think.
>> say that too. Okay. Then it is your choice. It is his choice. Let's leave it at that.
>> I'll be bringing you joy. You see this So wrap up for me, please.
>> No, so you mentioned the Pwalugu multi-purpose So if you if you combine the one V one dam Mhm. and the Pwalugu multi-purpose dam all into one, he says come.
If someone is telling you it's utopian, utopia is a state where milk flows, gold is on the street, you put in you you turn your tap honey flows, and you have everything. A state of over enjoyment that you can only imagine. A state of being heaven, etc. Utopian. That's what he told you. And our current flag bearer for NPP boldly told us that they've done the Pwalugu thing. Nothing was done. So it's a scam. So for him, the very things that would give us the the the backbone of our development as far as agriculture and industrialization is concerned, and they came and preached all to us. Yet this all been a a scam.
He cannot have the moral ground now today to talk about it.
>> How did you support the NPP to achieve the things that they had in mind to help all of us? You see, there are two ways of supporting. Mhm. You can either be the quiet one, observe. You can also be the one that you attack and nothing will come in.
Mhm. Now, NDC never attack except to point out to the very things that were not sustainable to them. The one you interview, do you know that who was the head of planting for food and jobs?
Brought us food to What's his name? A Greek ministry for us to come and buy.
And by the time he was leaving, what's the rate of food? Today, he's telling us that we should have a situation where the food will be so much that the buffer stock will be able to buy and store.
Granted that buffer stock buys. Let's go by his analysis.
Buffer stock buys two bags this year and stores.
Next year, we produce two bags. They buy and store. And we do what?
We do what with it? We are just tourists?
No, but We will keep You keep an eye on you.
Oh, but the school children are there.
What No, you are you are thinking for him. I am saying that he's coming with a proposal. Let him Let him give us the proposal. You don't just throw it in the into the sky and just accept that somebody else will take it up and do.
No.
That's what I'm I'm hoping that he will tell us where these things are coming from. But, you see, all in all, I feel that the IMF thing, the policy Is it the Do you Do you think that we are moving out at the right time? Is this the best time for us to move out?
>> I think every time can be the best time.
Let's move once we have some of the stability. We have met the the gates, the toll gates, and things are picking up. It is best up to us to also be a bit disciplined and develop ourselves.
>> Okay. Let's take a break. When we return from the break, we will get into another conversation on fuel and matters arising. You're live on 3FM 92.7. It's 18 minutes after 9. We're also live on Kesmi 107.1 in Tamale. See you shortly after these messages.
Register now for the second edition of the >> The big conversation on 3 FM Sunrise.
Welcome back. It's 21 minutes after 9:00 here on Sunrise on 3 FM 92.7. My guest, uh, lawyer Engineer Jemega Junior is a member of the NDC's national communications team. He's also a private legal practitioner. And Kamal Deen Abdullai, His Excellency, I should add there. I keep forgetting that. His Excellency Kamal Deen Abdullai, uh, is a former representative of Ghana to the United Arab Emirates. He's also member of the NPP's national communications team. Hopefully, uh, or or he's the MP thing and national executive.
Yes, exactly. Kamal.
Well, >> Good to have you back. I I I hear that in your in your beloved constituency, uh, the people have not had it easy. Well, so sad. I got back, um, from Tamale yesterday, Mhm. um, in the evening.
In fact, I was home because I needed to go ahead of a storm, a heavy storm Mhm.
[clears throat] that actually caused a lot of devastation to our people, especially within the Jannah community.
When we are from Tamale or driving from Tamale, Mhm.
going to Nantong constituency, it's the one of the first communities that you will you you you meet.
>> Okay. And these are people who vote strongly NDC. Sunrise on 3 FM having been hit by this storm several days ago, when I got there, I was told that the the be DC passed by and said hello.
Passed by? Yes. Um whether or not NADMO came is a matter.
The MP um they've not seen him yet.
Um I'm too I was told that the former our former MP also passed by who was an MP PMP of course passed by the former DC also passed by. I looked at it and I said did they say anything? I said they also came to see how they are.
Honestly I was touched by what the people are going through and it's an appeal I am putting forward to everyone who is listening to me.
You know, we are all there as brothers and sisters.
Those of you who have a little our people live in poverty a lot and in fact when some of these things hit them again, it goes to augment their problems. So it is my prayer that whoever can support us will try and support us. I was able to do my widow's might as a donation to them.
Just to ease the pain a bit because the central mosque within the community completely ripped off. Walls broken down.
Everything gone.
And I was telling myself look, this is a force measure. It's a natural disaster. However, we have NADMO in place.
And in fact this country NADMO should look at those people who really don't have much to do.
Attend to them. Just show concern.
Maybe the DC and the MP are yet to appear to see the support they will grant them through the government will grant them through them as it were but as we sit now apart from the little I did yesterday, nobody has gone there to see >> Nobody has gone there to say oh, just even take one single roofing sheet to help yourself. Meanwhile people are homeless.
A story is told of one whose wife just got birth I mean just gave birth.
>> Mhm.
The entire house, they have three room or four room, whatever. Everything is gone. They had no place for shelter. It is almost an completed structure.
Single room.
Without windows, without doors.
No not even scree- no screeding. And all that that they are making They are putting up in. They are putting up in now.
That's how sad it is in Ghana.
And I want to appeal to Ghanaians.
Please even those of you who don't know that I'm around, I'm available.
I can give my number to my brother.
Call us. Let's see how we can extend some help to these people. Because already we know like I told you, the kind of situations that we not miss or some not miss live in.
Below the poverty line even. You get what I mean. And of course for so- for them to be hit this way, it is quite pathetic. And then we should try and show concern. So I am calling on my DC, Rosina, honorable Rosina, if you are listening to me, please work with the district NADMO director. Let's see how we can help these people. And the original NADMO boss as well. Look, it's about governance. It's not about anybody. You never know who supports you. More so when even the people of Jannah community vote NDC a lot.
More so, I'm not even looking at that.
But even if >> [laughter] >> even if that's the way to go, I'm just trying to tell you what they do. I mean, what they are going through and that the kind of support that they need as it were. So we thank you so much for this time and all that. Now my what did my brother say?
They are still speaking as if they are they are they are they are in opposition. No, wait. We we we we are moving on with our we we we have we are moving on with our Yes.
I'll I'll allow them I'll come out slow down slow down.
Come out slow down.
gradually becoming >> You you have a comment on on the on the disaster, please. Yes, quickly. I mean, you just made an appeal. Yeah. So I mean, I am also one of the people you have appealed to. Yes. So >> We are expecting 100,000 Ghana And advocate general Yes, so while he was making the appeal I I I got someone to get in touch with the MP for the area. Indeed the doctor, yes.
Indeed I managed to take a recording of all that he has said and forwarded to the person to forward to to honorable MP. And after this place I believe I will follow up myself or something to be done.
We we are grateful. We are We are grateful. So they are not the people of Jema. They are not They are not alone in this. We are all in it. In fact, even in Accra yesterday I saw some pictures of people's houses collapsing. I I've always had a big problem On behalf of my Dagbon people we are grateful. Thank you.
I'm a chief so I have to take I have to take my place and say we are grateful to you. Thank you.
Okay. Okay.
I was speaking Twi. Yes. Okay. the chief Yes. Okay, so now now now what was lawyer saying?
Lawyer has forgotten that they are They are Look, they are behind the steering wheel now.
They they've given the steer to them.
They they are mum.
You told us you will give us formula 133. Ask him where is that formula 133.
My brother who is doing a great job, even he has not been given a job.
But did he tell you he was unemployed?
Ah, this man worked so well in the Volta Region to help this party. I know him so well.
Did all he could.
Today he is not considered under what formula 133, the so-called formula 133. Is it in force, the formula 133? He is a lawyer, but for him being A LEGAL PRACTITIONER IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE for him.
A great lawyer he is, great advocate.
But for that if he had depended on his own people and the work he did, they would have by now they they disappointed him.
I'm telling you.
And on top of that they're still pushing him down.
Because they think that in politics in politics they fight potential.
You are too good, they fight you. That's why they are doing you like that. They fight potential IN POLITICS. THAT'S WHY MY BROTHER even they know when they are instructing they say you will go for sitting Volta region. They won't give it to him. I see. By the way, that's by the way, but I'm just trying to tell you if formula 133 was actually working, it would have been sorted. The the fuel price the fuel price challenges that we have is it Is is it a is it You are now coming and want to ask me what we did in planting for food and jobs. We failed. No problem. You have come, do what is right.
>> Okay. The fuel prices that we have as of now um it it is is gone up by an inch. Some say it's global shock.
Some say some say some say it's local uh vulnerability. What do you see?
>> Look, I am saying that these people they are inept. Mhm. That's what I'm saying.
The government of the day is inept. Mhm.
What have they done by themselves?
Initially I told you the the kind of mechanisms we put in place for them to ensure physical discipline, to ensure macroeconomic stability, to ensure that those indicators look good. What have they done by themselves? You told us that fuel had gone down. Now let's go and see what is happening. If not a very intelligent government, you don't know who will do that. That's the words of the energy minister. Intelligent government indeed.
Today how much are we buying fuel?
It will only take a smart government to do this.
Smart government indeed. Today how much is fuel?
You say we shouldn't talk. for a little over 14 cedis per per liter. NPP we were not what? Good.
We were bad people. We were not We didn't even care about this country.
We didn't have these people at heart.
You took petrol at 14.50. Mhm.
Not even the floor price.
Now where we are only God will save us.
I want to ask you ask for what is the lowest floor price under MPP? When we talk when we talk you are telling me don't worry when you get your time you tell me. When we talk you are telling us that oh international market has gone to 109.
Why were you not telling us about international market? You told us that international market didn't matter.
COVID, Russia, Ukraine.
>> You said they didn't matter. But this is straight of homos. They are saying they they are all international. They said extra genius matters or issues don't matter.
Those were their words.
Today they matter.
You see when you talk of deceit when they mention the word deceit and you have not seen deceit go around and look for NDC.
You'll find it there. As soon as you see NDC you have seen the word deceit.
That is the way they are.
They will come and embellish things, insult you, say whatever and say whatever you want you insult and say oh there's a law don't do that you don't do law. But the council has not insulted you since this debate began. When I was coming you you spoke a bit about our final market and the rest. This is the conversation we are having. So when it comes somewhere you have to chip it in.
That is NDC. I'm telling you who they are. They will deceive you.
They can insult. You mention me.
You understand? They can insult. They can say anything they can embellish whatever they have. Lies to turn into the truth but somebody shouldn't do it.
Someone shouldn't do it.
Fuel fuel prices. How much is diesel now? Diesel is hitting 80. 80 yeah. Yes.
And if care is not taken where we are going and if the city continues to depreciate okay? Which they claim they have used the gold whatever mechanisms to solve which is not too true.
Because >> But but the government is putting in interventions.
>> At the point when >> To to to absorb some of the of the costs on on the petroleum products.
>> are those interventions? Like what?
Increase again by two windows. The cabinet meeting by president and that's that's right there what we have there.
Review development on the international petroleum market and approve the temporary measure aimed at cushioning consumer >> When we told them yesterday that the government has no control of some of these things, they said we were lying.
Mhm.
The DG was on TV3 trying to justify things. You can't justify anything. You yourself know that you do not We have degraded the area. So, two cities of petrol um 36 pesos of diesel per liter.
>> would have even bought higher.
If but for this So, clap for the government.
>> How?
Clap for them. I want you to come do.
To to to to how much? Uh what? When it was ACD, Nyantakyi, what did they say?
Smart government. THEY SHOULD GO BACK TO smart government. Mhm.
You said THE PARLIAMENT IS SMART GOVERNMENT. IF THEY'RE SMART, THEY WILL come do this. Just within some months down the line, you are not smart again.
At the time Trump had not started his term.
>> not more smart. With with you are smart >> whether Trump or no Trump, you'll be smart.
Mhm. So, don't take advantage of situations and come and tell people that you lied to people that you are smart government, when you are not smart. Mhm.
Look, all Ghanaians want to see Farmers want to see fuel coming down for them to buy for their tractors to plow their land for them. Mhm. When diesel is too expensive, that farmer it means that cannot farm.
Because an acre of farm land that you want to plow, the price will go up because of diesel.
>> And even it has come at a very wrong time because the green season just has just started. And I'm again praying and crying for my people. Mhm. Because they are just peasant farmers.
Everybody is farming.
And they [snorts] have to go and buy diesel at this cost.
>> Mhm. They can't pay for tractors.
On top of that, they have had this storm devastating them again.
And government is now INFLICTING MORE PAIN WITH ONE CD on it.
It is to solve the problem that you left behind. That's what the government says.
>> of Bamba.
Mhm.
Come me and Zuma I am that diesel.
I am Siri, one CD.
Later come and zoom.
In charger.
John Muhammad government say John Muhammad's government is GOING TO INFLICT PAIN ON PEOPLE AND INCUR DEBTS FOR THEM.
>> You are telling the farmers that their their tractors The tractors to fuel their tractors will charge them higher and it's going to affect It's going to affect their farming activities and make their lives difficult.
>> My good people of Nantom will struggle.
The good people of Nyam farmers will struggle.
>> But but the one CD >> communities in the Eastern Corridor will struggle.
>> But the one CD on each fuel was necessitated by, according to the government spokesperson, is a quarter of that.
You left money that had to be paid and they are trying to raise the money to >> came, they paid 1. for 1.49 billion dollars Mhm. of the such debt. We also, before we exit in 2024, paid 1.4 billion dollars. So, there's always been a duty debt.
So, you don't come and inflict the pain on them. When there was DDEP, debt restructuring, and we said there should be haircut to save the situation. What did they say?
>> But you told us there would be no haircut. The president The president has put haircut on people.
>> said there will be no haircut.
>> Eh, but there was. And now their case So, did the president lie to us? Did the president lie to us? Now you have put haircut on Council. So, for me Mhm.
Mhm.
Mhm. Yeah, 11.34.
Mhm.
Mhm.
You should follow the Nigerian example.
Mhm.
Okay. Thank you.
I hear you. Let let me bring in Council.
Council.
So, so our fuel price seems to be looking up again. Um your Some members within your party have been talking about a global trend of a sort. You just heard Kamal. He thinks that it is your ineptitude and incompetence that is leading us on this direction. What do you say, Council? Uh Are you feeling as contrary to the promises that you made to us before uh the benefit of power came to you?
There was something which he he said that was a a shot in his own foot. Mhm.
That when you pointed out the the prices on the board Right. and you told him that if not for the government's intervention Mhm. uh those Mhm. figures would have been higher.
Right. And he said, "Yes, it means that uh they should do more." Mhm. Now, Johnny, if we had had Russia Russia Ukraine war Mhm. and if we had had the Iran Iran Iran Israel US >> US under MPP, we'd have had a straight of almost levy. I'm telling you. Oh, come on. I'm telling you. Let's not joke. I'm telling you.
Ghana until recently was the only country the whole world still paying COVID levy.
The whole country.
>> Mhm.
Ghana. The whole world was >> The whole the whole world.
>> Mhm.
Ghana was the only country paying COVID levy. So, if I'm telling you >> Even when COVID had ended. had ended. I mean, Ghana's test at the airport under COVID was the highest in the whole world.
$150.
>> $150. To the extent that some investors who came complained to the minister that we came in on Tuesday, we went to Nigeria Wednesday, and we are back on Thursday, you are testing us again on the same $150.
Ghana's own. You see, there are some things when they are saying they should be shy of themselves to say it.
We had ESLA, as you mentioned.
>> Energy sector Energy sector yes, they collateralize it.
Use it for something else.
Then they are here today talking about the fact that there was debt. So, if there was debt, you should pay them.
Come on. How when was the last time you had to He mentioned the independent power producers. When was the last time you had them complaining?
When was the last time? Because their debts are being serviced. Mhm. And all this was done. Now, out of the one cedi that is complaining about. You see, even when we were talking about let's get to IMF. I want to remind him a bit since he says that he takes his time to read. Let him go and read. This one was just recent. They were saying that E-levy will be enough to cushion us from going to IMF.
>> Yeah. Ken Ofori-Atta said that.
>> Yes. Kojo Oppong Nkrumah reiterated >> Yes, and I said that Ken Ofori-Atta is the longest serving finance minister apart from the PNDC area of era of Kwesi Botchwey. Where is he?
He even come and justify his No, no, he's undergoing medical, okay, you know that, don't you?
You see, when you look at when um uh the cyber crime, those guys who were jailed the one of them was coming to the was under dialysis and going to court.
So, what is different about Ken Ofori-Atta? Look, I'm challenging Kamal Deen.
Rise up.
Party of NPP, rise up. Let all Ghanaians show all Ghanaians that we are going to tell Ken Ofori-Atta, whatever it is, come down and talk. But before that, he mentioned Ace Ankomah. You see, one of my genius sent me a message today. Last week had a serious argument that I said they keep talking about standards within the legal profession. Who's standard?
And where is the standard?
And he says, "Seniority."
I mean, the standards must be maintained. And I said, "Unfortunately, those to maintain the standards are substandard themselves."
And she said, "No, you can't say that."
So, today, she forwarded a video to me and said, "Somehow you are justified."
You listen to the sort of things he said. And I want to correct Ace Ankomah, he's my senior.
The circuit court judge cannot hold you before him or her for contempt. It is not part of He hasn't got that authority.
And Kofi Bentil was on Newsfile the other day also justifying that the judge could have hauled Abronyie before himself or herself for contempt. That also doesn't happen.
Exactly. So, you see, when you are angry >> I'm not I'm not even learning. That is why uh Kamal Deen is about learning, about to his doing. Yes, that is why when you are angry and you don't have a lot of emotional control over things, you make some of these errors which even uh genius shouldn't be making. But come back to this situation.
Government is cushioning. We have deregulated. But Kamal Deen, let him tell us that after the deregulation, there's no tax on it.
>> For for how long will you be able to cushion? Yes, we will we will as long as you see We need Let Let the original price speak for itself and this cushioning It looks artificial No, it's not artificial. We all need to share the burden. We all need to share the pain. That is where I was expecting that he would have accepted. I asked him a question, simple question.
Look, when I'm going to buy fuel, they don't sell me because I belong to NDC.
So, you take yours at 5% or 5 cedis.
Since when did you notice? When he's going to buy, they don't say because he's NPP, so take yours at 20 cedis. I ask him a simple question. What is the best fuel price we've had under NPP? I Google. I think the best under NPP is still worse than the worst under NDC as we have Yes, we've had 22 cedis. But you see, the equalization levy you see, good.
This is why I'm saying that when they want to pray, Mhm. they should honestly and genuinely pray for Ghana.
Whose joy will it be for fuel to be 40 cedis a liter in Ghana? Whose joy?
Wasn't it your joy yesterday? You you are you are you want to to see us fail.
Whose joy? Wasn't it your joy?
And you see, the good thing about what he's saying that we were gloating, we were happy is that when the prices were going down, we allowed it to go down.
It was simple as that. We didn't maintain it somewhere to say that let's make so much out of it while it's going down to the extent that some people said they have And around that time, Johnny, let's be honest. I think I was on this show where we said that traffic became heavier than usual because those who had hitherto parked their vehicles had started all move them.
Those are some of the benefits of it.
Speaking of which, where are the buses?
You ordered some buses that were supposed to be on the street. The president ordered it. Yeah.
Why are the problem and they had to push the brand new bus? They said it's fake.
They said it was fake. But but where are the buses? Do you know Kojo?
>> They're they're on the Spintex Road. you are They are parked there. They are parked there. Whoever is representing us tomorrow will address the bus issue. The buses are here. They are parked at Spintex Road. You can drive after here.
Drive on the Spintex Road. I saw them.
They are parked there. Yes. They are parked there. But why are they parked?
They are supposed to be on the road.
Okay. You see? They are supposed to be on the road. You see? I hear it was a beauty agreement where the person should operate and pay. They don't even have money to buy the buses. They came and they were launching what they didn't buy.
Okay. It's not there for them. I'm asking. It's not for them.
They were launching what they didn't buy.
No proper uh when you become a diary of contradiction when you walk in, it it is a bit unfortunate.
He is the one here who told us The buses were parked there. that the government has the sovereign guarantee to enter into all forms of agreements.
>> But they didn't do it in this case. It was a different one.
>> Okay. So, they did So, the government has that sovereign guarantee to enter all sort of agreements. Yet, the government cannot use that sovereign guarantee to enter into agreement with bus. It it becomes so much difficult It becomes so much difficult for ordinary listener to understand. Lawyer, please.
>> It becomes so much difficult Lawyer, please. Don't do THIS IS THE FIRST time This is the first time I've heard such an argument. You see? You see? So, I was quiet like a I was quiet and patient like a kindergarten teacher. So, learn that from me. So, the idea again, as I said, whoever will represent NDC tomorrow will be able to address this. I can bet you on that one. But, the idea that the buses cannot be used because they didn't pay for it. Who ordered it in the first place? It was government of Ghana. It wasn't a personal property.
So, definitely, it has to be used.
>> Okay. Let's move on, gentlemen. Come out.
The the the phenomenon of online fraud. Yeah. Um some call it hustle. Some call it the fact that they are trying to make ends meet.
I'm looking at it from perspective of unemployment and what future we are trying to build for our younger people.
What do you see? I mean, our people have been picked up and taken to the US.
Recent one is what? Lancaster and arrangement.
And it keeps I hear an MP has been picked up recently.
>> of parliament but we don't know exactly why because according to the majority chief whip, Peter Affail Amankwah Asiamah, he says that they have not been shown a copy of the of the warrants. They don't know what's contained in why he's been held, etc. But we are looking at 140 million dollars plus a total alleged fraud across all Ghana linked cases. 16 defendants have been charged or convicted across all cases. Nine defendants have already been They have already pleaded guilty. And increasingly, [clears throat] Yeah. if you look at the combined terms of 50 years combined sentences handed out so far, it's worrying for me.
>> let me let me ask you a question. Do you know much about India and IT? Yes.
You know how well and so well they're doing?
>> Yes. Do you know these kind of softwares that build them? Yes. You're aware? Very well.
>> have taken They've almost taken over the market.
>> from India, so I know. Absolutely.
You see, once again, Ghana as a country has gotten it wrong when it comes to digitalization. Mhm.
Why?
We've allowed our young people to go on free range.
We haven't been deliberate to coordinate them properly.
And let them understand that the world is moving towards technology. Mhm.
Therefore, grow along that line.
We started with having communication centers with internet cafes attached. Mhm. You remember with that?
>> Yes. And the young man >> centers and and internet browsing cafes.
>> Because of the app The young man gets up, go and sit there without going to school even. And the expense of going to school.
Start sponging. Start buying airtime and always on the computer. Until that person is introduced online by someone you can do XYZ.
You get what I mean? Then he gets addicted and thinks that through that I can even make money.
Until it metamorphosizes into Sakawa boys. Now they don't go to come centers again. They sit in their rooms and have their own and get their internet and it moves on.
When we started you see why I'm saying we are talking about this.
Today observe something again. Aside the internet cafe and all that, the next thing we had was computer schools were being set up. Private computer schools yes.
What did government do deliberately to ensure that we harness such an environment?
Properly give our people, you know, tuition. We can do professional hacking.
It's it's a course for professional ethical hacking.
They can show them how to build develop softwares.
When these private computer schools were coming, what did we do as a country?
We haven't planned.
Today we are talking about STEM education which started along that time.
Around that time with the internet cafe thing.
Every young person going is in school of IT and then they tell them to professionally build a software you can make money out of your software. Imagine having a a software that is unique in the world.
That has to perform an act. Imagine how much they'll buy it. We have not taught these children all this. We have left everybody in the wild. And all they could do was to what? When you leave people in the wild, they go free range.
And when they go on free range, what is easy or the low-hanging fruit is what they are going to go and pluck.
You get what I mean? But in the IT industry, there are aspects of what we call criminology.
So, the person who is just there Mhm.
just as every environment Right. who sees that some some something an opening is here and I can make this goes into it.
So, I am saying that as a country, with the greatest of respect to us again, just like I said within how we have harnessed handled our farming area or our Greek area in our economy and our energy, the same way we are getting things wrong in the digitalization area.
We should be deliberate again.
We have this center built by President John Dramani Mahama.
>> The digital center.
>> Digital center. Mhm. GIFAGO news place.
>> digital fiber and acts. Mhm. Do you remember under Kufuor, under Kanda Park?
Mhm. We had what we call community IT centers sponsored by World Bank. Mhm.
Built throughout the country in most regions. At that time, it was 10 regions.
Mhm.
Where are those centers?
They have been taken over by snakes.
Community what?
>> Community information centers. They called them under the Ministry of Communication.
>> It was under the ISD.
>> It was It was under the Ministry of Communication.
Later on, GIFEC took over.
>> Yes. Yes. Yes. GIFEC. I remember those ones. Yes. I know about it. They were built >> They were They were They were built.
Yes. I remember.
>> it round the country to go They want to develop the youth them on IT and all that.
>> to um to replace the festival cone community centers.
>> Absolutely. And they even employed program managers, computer heads, whatever. Where are they?
What have we done as a country?
And we continue doing NDC, NPP, and killing our youth. So, when you ask me what we can do to stem this fraud, because there's an opening, somebody thinks a $14 million can be made somewhere. Yeah.
Legal or illegal, I have the know-how to do whatever I want to do. I move on. And there are no proper checks in place. As a country, it's just not too long ago we have had our cyber security authority put in place. Yeah. Really? Are we serious?
Not too long ago. My brother is the deputy CEO, Jamal Fuseini.
Not too long ago that we had it as a country.
So, we sit down and all we want to do is that everybody is on the what? On the go, looking for quick money.
And that's where the problem is.
>> And proper managing of our structure management of our structure is not there. So, those community information centers, I am asking a question. When we build them around the country under Ministry of Communication, where are they and what are they doing right now?
>> Okay. Counselor, step in step in step in for me.
>> So, until we are able to get it right, our young people are in the world and they are so zealous and because they are zealous and because they have ambition and they are determined to make money, when there's an opening, they go into it. So, I'm saying the government today if you have promised that you are going to have what we call 133 coders system a coders coders program >> program under some judge 1 million coders You remember the coders definition on his advertising? No. What is coding? You didn't remember what is coding? Remind me. My brother Supa Dupa, good morning to you anyway. You see, so >> [laughter] >> even the person to go and handle the place as I understand it. Don't worry, Supa Dupa. The person to go and handle the program that will digitalize the entire place doesn't even understand WHAT IS THE LET let me let ME GIVE YOU LET ME GIVE YOU >> NDC, like once again, they will come and talk plenty.
>> Let me see the rest of the time, too.
So, again, we we we we we we need we need them to really work. Thank you.
>> Good morning. [clears throat] Counselor, uh issues which are of national concern >> Mhm. MPP cannot go about it without being political. Ah, but why? Yes.
You want to ask a simple >> Supa Dupa, he kept quiet for your line.
We ask him what was the You ask a simple question about what What are what are are we doing for the young people because digital fraud is on the ascendancy?
That's right.
Mhm.
Yes. Yes.
Mhm.
Mhm. Mhm.
Mhm.
Mhm.
Mhm.
>> [clears throat] >> Mhm.
Mhm.
Mhm.
Right.
Mhm.
Mhm.
A connection.
Okay, so they can offload money to you.
So you can bring it to them.
Your booty.
Mhm.
Mhm.
Mhm.
Mhm.
Mhm.
Mhm. And we should tackle it inside. The cyber crime as he's saying the the one that is being headed by Agbeko.
Mhm.
Yeah, signals bureau.
>> Signals bureau. Yes, signals bureau is the cyber crime etc. And they give us they need to sit up and say that hey this is going to affect us in the next 5 10 years. We need to be up and doing.
You see currently maybe the only good thing is that we collaborate very well when it comes to this tradition.
>> Right. But that will also at a stage slow down because we are looking for the likes of Ken Ofori-Atta who has not yet been brought in.
>> Oh, but he's working.
>> Work work that's what is important work.
So that's that's that's and stop.
Let's be honest all that we are saying today you think the Americans don't listen they listen. They do.
They have even some of our own people listening for them and giving them feedback.
They listen they know the FBI FBI is in town. Oh they are they are they might even be in this your building you might never know. [clears throat] They they listen. So they also know how we are behaving and responding to some of these things. So the only thing that I will say currently that is helping us is the idea that when you say we need A we are ready to say okay A go to court let the court decide and go. Let me end there I know you are running let me end on this note to say um a very warm morning to my younger brother Doji AK 1000 who is listening to me.
>> AK 1000.
>> Yes Lord What what what the nickname?
Lord 1000.
>> Yes Lord 1000 who's listening to us He asked me to ask a few questions I'll ask you those questions off air.
>> I hear you I hear you. Come on we're wrapping up what do you leave us with quickly in a minute? One I think that we should also know that we have laws in this country.
And we should be we shouldn't cherry pick when we want to apply the laws.
Like I said earlier on the NPP would not just sit down for someone to walk over us.
After your monkey has spoken, my other colleagues have spoken.
We're going to abide by the law, but we shall also do what is right to ensure that the government does what is right.
>> All right. That's what we have to do.
>> Thank you. Counsel.
I mean as I let me add to what he has said.
Privileges come with responsibilities.
>> Right. So when you have the privilege to talk, you must know that it comes with a responsibility. Talk very well. Be a true staff flag bearer for I mean everybody is misbehaving so that they will call them the following morning to come and shake hands with Dr. Mahamudu Bawumia and take pictures.
That shouldn't be it. You should be able to say what you have said today. If that one is not okay, don't come and and shake hands. You want us to go on that tangent?
>> Okay. All right. Thank you. Counsel Jimagar engineer lawyer Jimagar Junior Theophilus Jimagar Junior. Thank you very much indeed for your time. And he's The honorable Kamal Deen Abdulai Why do you do that to him? Kamal you yourself isn't Nanton or party What What What is it? Because I keep hearing things. It says once upon a time this one they say they say this one fits you MP fits you then they say party executive fits you then >> you It tells you how versatile I am. So now now you It tells you how versatile your friend appears. Don't Don't Don't confuse the people. Don't confuse us. It tells you how versatile I am. Leave us Leave us alone to mind our business.
Kamal have a nice day. Counsel have a nice day. And I want to specially mention Professor Ebenezer His [snorts] friends call him Bobby. Uh I will choose to call him Dadzie Bomoe.
And for the second time he's been adjudged the best in all of Africa when it comes to marketing and he's the guru that you're looking forward to.
Uh congratulations to you Prof and we celebrate you in grand style and we know that uh this will spur you on to do greater works as you have always done.
Congratulations to you Professor Ebenezer. If it's your birthday today, it's time now to wish you a happy birthday.
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