State of E-Com in 2026 | w/ Ankit & Andrei

Hinzugefügt: 2026-06-02

[00:00:00]The Facebook gods are not against you.

[00:00:02]It's just that you don't know what to focus on. Most of the drop shippers are excellent marketers, but they're terrible operators. They can't get my, you know, returning customer up. And I asked them other parts. So, how long does it take you to ship? Oh, we don't ship them.

[00:00:16]You can scale it. You will scale.

[00:00:18]There's like no denying it.

[00:00:20]>> Like, you think that you have an A player, but it's actually a B player.

[00:00:24]>> And you think that you might have a B player, but it's actually a C player.

[00:00:27]>> Yeah. In my opinion, the execution layer that is going to be wiped out by let's say 2027.

[00:00:34]>> We are going to turn back into real life human experiences.

[00:00:42]>> All right. What's good, bro?

[00:00:43]>> It's good to see you.

[00:00:44]>> Welcome to the villa.

[00:00:46]>> Um, yes. So, this is a quick going to be more like a podcast or general talk about e-commerce, what we've learned throughout our journeys. Um, this is going to be valuable for those who have an e-commerce brand, planning on running an e-commerce brand, have an e-commerce team, running an agency or anyone in particular who wants to know about business. And few things that we're going to be talking about here is going to be about the trends in e-commerce.

[00:01:10]What makes a big brand a big brand I would say and then if a figure brand and 8 figure brand, the trends going on with the MR, where the money is moving and some misconceptions about the space, I would say where the AI is headed. Uh but yeah, this is gonna be a good podcast and yeah, some chill, laid-back, no professionalism.

[00:01:29]>> Yeah, >> you can you can swear out whatever you like.

[00:01:33]>> But um yes, so let's start with you, Andre. Just tell everyone a bit more about you, how you started, where you, you know, head and all that stuff.

[00:01:41]>> Okay, cool. So I run a CRO agency and we mainly serve eight figure brands. We've served a couple big players and um essentially we help them make a [ __ ] ton more money through listical aviators but mainly and what's most important is research which was the main topic of our Bali event that you have to [ __ ] understand your numbers >> in order if you want to scale you cannot scale if you don't track and if you don't track you cannot like measure if you don't measure you don't grow essentially.

[00:02:08]>> Yeah.

[00:02:08]>> What about you guys? So my name is Ankit and I own Mach 33 co-one Mach 33 medium and we are retention marketing agency for e-commerce. I also have my own coaching or community which is called ecom email mastery. We have over 1,300 plus members and yeah our goal is to make e-commerce brands more profitable especially through own channels such as email and SMS marketing getting them much higher retention and obviously retention means more profit. So that is what we basically do. But yeah, that that is like uh about us and we're in Bali. Pretty pretty pretty pretty chill vibes. Like this is >> my second time in Bali. You you've actually been living here.

[00:02:50]>> I mean this is where I live. So >> yeah. How's US Bali for you?

[00:02:52]>> It's quite good. Like amazing food, very amazing connections.

[00:02:57]>> Um they have one of the best gyms in the world, honestly.

[00:03:00]>> So like what you what else do you need more?

[00:03:03]>> Yeah, exactly. Plus the villas here they come equipped with pool which we don't normally see any I'm from Nepal we don't normally have villas with pool in Nepal that much even if they have like it's very shallow pool but we have like 8 ft something here and it's really good to take a dive work and it's just a I would say digital nomad lifestyle that people are living here kind of like makes good of a connection as well but yeah we recently did a event here which was a 8 figureure um ecom mastermind So Andre and me were speaking and it was 35 >> Yeah. like 35 eight seven figure brands.

[00:03:41]>> Yeah.

[00:03:41]>> Coming up there. A couple nine figure guys there. It was amazing.

[00:03:44]>> So it was amazing. And something that we've learned is like where the trend of e-commerce is heading in 2026 because when I asked them what like if if anyone has been running subscription brand or they want to be running a subscription brand, we saw almost everyone raise their hands. Yeah.

[00:04:03]>> So, especially with, you know, the things with the Grun's exit with $1.2 billion, it seems the money is flowing into more of an MR space as well. So, what what's up with, you know, what you've seen with the clients, how the shift is moving? How many clients want to shift to, let's say, MR or subscription model?

[00:04:21]>> So, I think that a lot of guys right now are unaware of the uh importance of this coming up in in the next few years. Mhm.

[00:04:28]>> I'm seeing a lot more of my clients just asking me like they want to go to subscriptions, VIP type of programs, essentially things that bring them monthly recurring revenue >> and even if they are not in a subscription space, for example, we have a brand that donates um meals >> by buying their t-shirts or their jewelry, they donate to like poor people. They want to introduce an MR system uh and many many others. So the framework that I walked them through is try to think of what is some some product that is complimentary or some desire that they want to achieve and try to integrate that into an monthly basis and you try to like keep them hooked by providing constant value. It can be through giving a premium access to a community, >> access to private coaching, um tying that specific subscription to a specific goal. it can be like weight loss.

[00:05:21]>> Um preparing even some gifts in like month three, month six. So then you actually keep them hooked and I would say not all industries like you can do that but if you get creative enough I think you certainly can.

[00:05:37]>> Yeah, definitely. Um and I think it's mostly currently being seen in supplement space or a pro like problem solving niche. But um I don't think it's just this one particular market that is going to like you know win with um subscriptions. There are like so many companies, so many niches that can absolutely apply this model. So for reference uh we had an 8 figureure jewelry brand on our event and um yeah he didn't have subscriptions but obviously if if if it's a jewelry brand which is let's say a high ticket or low ticket what whatever they can run let's say 3 months or uh three month subscription program or one month like every month subscription program like surprise gifts or whatever even let's say if it's going to be a you know like like a different let's say a food brand or whatever they can have subscription as Well, and um it just depends on the create c creativity of what you can apply to your own brand in terms of this model. But I think we are going to be seeing a lot more niches and not just supplements apply this model because hey Netflix is subscription >> essentially. You were saying that Netflix is a subscription. Almost everything right now nowadays is a subscription. Even the courses you mentioned to me last night like so many courses in so many industries switch from like you buy one to like you buy once to like monthly basis or quarterly basis or like buy I don't know you buy once in 6 months >> and then like it renews after six.

[00:07:13]>> I I see the same pattern happening in so many industries nowadays and I think that's the game where it's going because as an ecom brand the advertising is just getting a lot more expensive.

[00:07:22]>> Yeah. and you need to somehow make it up for those money so that you have more cash so that you can >> have more money to acquire more customers and actually get a bigger chunk of the market share.

[00:07:33]>> Yeah, exactly. So it's just like you know at the end of the day it's just how much creativity you can use and I would say like any brand that is that that that can think outside of the box >> is going to dominate this space because what we've seen normally in this model is someone does something and everyone's trying to copy that but if you become like a market mover in a particular industry with a particular model or a particular offer there's a very high chance that you're going to be the first one to you know make a bank out of it.

[00:08:02]Obviously, there are going to be a bunch of copycats trying to copy you >> obviously, >> but you need to create a mode which is which could be through a distribution, which could be through branding, which could be through, you know, profitability or whatever >> and if you're able to do that uh when you know no one else is doing, you'll have a head start and you'll have more time to figure out that itself. So, I think it's like something that we will be seeing a lot more in 2026. Right now, going on about the difference in the brand sizes and everything, you know, you work with all sorts of brands. So six figures, seven figures and eight figures um nine figures too and what is like the normal differences you see between let's say the operations the founders their goals what what makes I would say a nine figure brand a nine figure brand >> so I would say number one is I see them being egoless.

[00:08:53]>> Mhm. I think this pours into so many areas of your business, but I think that the capability of the brand scaling to nine figures ties to I would say two very highly or three I would say three highly important areas. One I just mentioned I think it's like be being egoless >> like they want to be wrong.

[00:09:14]>> They want others and their employees and the team to tell them like hey you're actually wrong.

[00:09:20]>> The two is their capability to hire a players. Mhm.

[00:09:23]>> And to make the difference between what is actually a an L player, >> this is one of my uh one of our highest um brand owner, he explained to me the difference between like you think that you have an A player, but it's actually a B player.

[00:09:40]>> And you think that you might have a B player, but it's actually a C player.

[00:09:44]>> And those kind of entrepreneurs is like they keep the bar so high for their team that that becomes the norm. And this is how like because the team is so efficient, they have so many good players in there, the team gets to the to that the other level. And the third I would say it's connections.

[00:10:04]>> Yeah.

[00:10:04]>> And that can be tied to like just the number of connections you you have and the fact that you're like attending events, you're interested in what's going on in the current um modern modern era, like way AI is going. You're kind of like up to date with everything and you make connections in those specific spaces. But on top of that, it's also the part of personal branding. I seeing more founders, especially um more people, even those guys that attended to our event, they almost all of them are building personal brands.

[00:10:32]>> Yeah. And I think this gives you an unfair advantage to have um better supply rates, uh to have better vendors, uh better pricing, >> and actually just get like like the top 1% of almost anything that you would need in terms of like help from contractors actually to reach figures. I think it comes through the power of connections.

[00:10:54]>> Yeah, 100%. I think like another factor as well that we've seen um with the people is uh that doing good is they like you said they have no ego and they know their weaknesses. They know what they're like for me if you're giving me those operational variables and all that stuff. Bro, I suck at that. I I can't do that. Right? And that's why I have like a go to C COO. The same thing with brands, right? So most people are what I what I what I've seen is people who start their business or like e-commerce brand they start with marketing and they get really good at marketing because that is what it takes to get let's say six figures a month or seven figures a month. However, after that they it starts to decline or it plateaus because they are great marketers but they are terrible operators and they have this massive ego thinking hey I can't run my business better than I do and they refuse to hire people. that refuse to build system and it goes down downhill.

[00:11:50]But the people that I've seen who scale or sustain are the people who know what they're not good at and obviously it's not something to be worried about because not everyone is going to be great at everything, right? There are going to be certain weakness. There are going to be things that you don't like doing that you can just have someone let's say a partner or an expert or a team member join it and take on from there. So after some point you scale it and then you build systems and systems will create another level of scale.

[00:12:22]>> Mhm.

[00:12:23]>> So that is what I've seen normally and another part is obviously less uh rely on I mean the guys that are doing 16 like big numbers they don't just rely on one product or one market or one one offer. So cool one product one offer is good.

[00:12:40]>> It takes you to a level. Yeah, it takes it to a level. But there is something called the market life product life cycle which is introduction it grows uh growth maturity and decline and the decline is inevitable after some point you're let's say if you're talking about acquisition your CPM you you start reaching the you know um you start reaching the end of your time for that particular product for that particular let's say avatar ICP your CPMs go go up your frequency goes up your CPA go up and obviously at a scale. Majority of the brands I would say are scaling below uh their break even rows and it's because it's that right but these guys have a system where they're not just relying on one product or one offer and they have people coming back from that for to buy again and again. Now it could be through your subscription model. It could be through you know upsells or whatever like that. But the second purchase is so much more profitable than the first purchase where if you just apply that where if you introduce new offers, new products, your decline phase is going to be pushed back and your maturity is going to extend. So I think like there's one part as well and people are so much hooked to one product. It feels like it's like obviously it's their business that they started and they start treated as a baby. is like, "Oh, no. I can't let this product go."

[00:14:00]And at the end of the day, it what it's what causes their, you know, downfall.

[00:14:04]That's what I've seen mostly. What about you?

[00:14:06]>> I think I think it's [ __ ] >> I don't know what was that. So, I think you're right. And I think brands I would say like refuse to look and and and and hear the voice of their customers. Yeah.

[00:14:20]>> Because your buyers have like this is what I see. So many operators they just see the numbers on their Shopify but they do not understand that there is a human going on the site and actually buying and that rorowes is made by some people that buy bought from you and those people have ideas and they are going to be the most profitable in the long run if you just pay attention to that that specific segment. So then you audit or you ask you literally what I said call call your customers bro like understand why they bought from you instead of competitors. What other products would they want to see uh on your store? And this is where it gives you like an innovation edge because some of them might be like I actually like your product. I think I just might need a different flavor, a different better model with a different wing or it's like a certain feature that and there is no other product in the market just like you.

[00:15:14]>> And then you just innovate and then you have something unique that solves a real problem and it's >> created based on customer feedback.

[00:15:22]>> Yeah.

[00:15:22]>> And as a consequence of that, what's going to happen? A lot more word of mouth because your product actually [ __ ] good. Mhm.

[00:15:28]>> Secondly is the the it's going to start to play like sort of snowball effect where you're not going to only rely on meta just like just running around on a treadmill like most guys are doing >> and it's not even about like an MR system. It's about like making a actually a [ __ ] good product that people love and they come back even you without forcing them. But obviously this is what I wanted to ask you about like what are the retention mechanisms that brands can do after after the purchase and now I want to I want to expand into the product side like the packaging experience but also the email side of things. What do you see here?

[00:16:06]>> So I think like after someone just places an order like don't coast them bro like that that is like the main thing in itself. So, here's the thing.

[00:16:14]You buy something. The worst thing that you can do is you buy something and now you received an email that it's 10% off.

[00:16:20]It's going to piss you off because hey, I just bought something >> and you're just selling me more.

[00:16:24]>> It's No. And now you're giving a discount when I bought at the full price. Doesn't make sense. So, >> number one, stop sending discounted emails or whatever to the to the recently buyers. So, >> whenever we send campaigns, we exclude like a certain period of buyers. let's say 14 days, 30 days, whatever based on what the brand requires. Another part is just give a [ __ ] about your customers after they buy. So in the post-purchase sequences, have educational emails. Make them feel hyped. Make them feel like, you know, hey, you bought from us and we're not going to ghost you. Here's what you can expect with the product.

[00:16:57]Here's how you can use it better. Here's how you can, you know, use to improve your life faster, whatever. yada yada yada. Handle the objections, I would say, that people have before getting the bar. It just like sets like a good reputation because when you have a good reputation people buy from you. It builds trust >> and once they have the product um after some time you ask them how it's going.

[00:17:20]You ask them you know like how to you know like use the product better. Hey here's top three things that you can do with this to make it I don't operate longer or whatever and then sell >> then crossell. Don't be the person to they bought something, they haven't received the product and now you're trying to sell them more. It doesn't make sense. So there's one part. Another factor is knowing when do people um make the second purchase. So we can track this on Shopify cohorts or other >> platforms based on when do people b come and buy again >> on average like >> Yeah. On average. Yeah. on average as well which which months let's say month zero month one or two uh shows I would say the highest amount of returning customers based off of that have a data so you align your post purchase with those particular time frames where the conversion is uh there's the highest chance of conversion so those are things that uh can be done um obviously with packaging and uh the landing page the CRSI you know better so I wanted to hear your thoughts on this as well >> so I would say in terms of retention um like making them coming back. I would say in terms of real life conversion rate is having the experience to be so much better than others.

[00:18:39]>> For example, uh I saw a brand that when delivered to their home, they open the box, then they have a QR code that have a has a full course on this is how to use the product and it's made by the founder. Like videos recorded raw by the founder. This is how I use it. this is how I take it and it just makes the experience so much better like real life. The next thing is what I see is a lot of the brands when they go into the subscription model they just like these are all the features that you might or the benefits that you might get you like you can calc anytime you get like 10% off on the future orders you have like maybe like one or two but there are a couple brands that I've seen one of them I think it's IM8 >> that what I really liked about them like >> how they managed to increase uh and increase the adoption rate of their product cuz we were talking about in in your mastermind about the adoption rate is they add gifts in the second month, in the third month, in the sixth month.

[00:19:39]So this is how you extend the lifetime value and actually the retention in the adoption of your product.

[00:19:45]>> Yeah.

[00:19:46]>> But uh what else? What are other things?

[00:19:49]I think a lot of the if we talk specifically about supplements, the number one problem that I've noticed is by also um speaking with different customers, with different clients is they they basically cannot stick with the the product. They they just like take it for a couple days and then they can just keep forgetting about it. So then every time there is a problem you have to think of what is the next problem and the next one and the next one and the next one that your customers is having and you want to one solution builds on top of the other. You you build a solution for the for the problem you think of what is their next problem on top of that. Oh, uh, if they they can, for example, one of the problem once they buy it is like they forget to take it, then you might just be giving them uh reminders or like making a quick app that just reminds them, hey, you need to take this or you need you can give them a Monday till Sunday kind of like you can put the pill in there or whatever it is so they don't forget about it. The third one is the next once you solve that problem, you have the next one.

[00:20:50]What happens if they travel?

[00:20:52]>> Then you can give them a certain I don't know like a >> travel pouch >> travel pouch or something that fixes the next problem then it's then it's the next one then and you just have to like think what is the next one and the next one and because of the customer experience and you can and even add the community and just go the extra mile and you >> this is for like everyone in any kind of business when you see everyone else doing one thing you're just thinking how can I do the opposite or how can I just be totally different what are other things that people like no one does that I can do what's my competitive edge.

[00:21:24]Maybe my best friend is a doctor in that specific field that I'm actually selling the product in too. And then you just make a an amazing course that it's actually for free for those customers.

[00:21:34]And let's say that you sell to women that are on menopause and they have problems in their relationships with their husbands because they are they have just some sort of problems when they reach that age. And you just make an actionable really good um course that no one else in the market has but you.

[00:21:51]And this is how you just create your edge.

[00:21:53]>> Yeah, 100%. I like this edge applies to relative like all the businesses as well, you know, regardless that's what we talk about with the agency side of things as well, right?

[00:22:02]>> At some point, right? Um, so e-commerce, I would say you are going to be scaling um below break even that is mostly the game. So at that level um obviously when you're starting out your royance is obviously much higher compared to when you're scaling.

[00:22:23]>> Yeah.

[00:22:24]>> So I would say up to a $100,000 per month it's mostly just creatives creatives creatives that that's all you need to focus on. But after that other channels such as I would say emails um other areas such as CRO those small tweaks start to make the difference between scale or the death of the brand.

[00:22:48]>> Yeah.

[00:22:50]>> And I think like really one really good um insight on this is the revenue per visitor thing, right? Because obviously if I'm spending the same amount to get um same number of people. Now, if you could just increase the revenue per visitor, it makes sense. So, yeah, exactly. So, what's your take on this?

[00:23:07]Because obviously you you've generated like last year $51 million last year.

[00:23:11]Yeah.

[00:23:12]>> So, um how do you see this affecting the health or the profitability of the business allowing them to scale more?

[00:23:21]>> Okay. So, we talked about the retention side of things. Now, about the on-site experience.

[00:23:28]Um, so I think this is a more well-known thing, but I'm going to answer you with an example that I have seen on a 9 figureure operator operating with one of the highest level when it comes to conversion rate optimization and ads. So in order to make really good decisions, you have to really understand down your number. You have to I'd say the thing that most operators are missing is like as you said they are really good marketers but they are [ __ ] horrible CFOs themselves. They hate doing the mad they hate looking at the data or they just have incapable CFOs or there's people that don't actually give a [ __ ] about their brand. So what I've seen that operator that he does 12 million a month and he connects all of his teams like email, SEO, ads, CRO especially ads and CRO and email and they have on their weekly meeting they have to all of them to understand the front end metrics and the backend metrics. So then when they make a new campaign, a new sale, a new ad, a new landing page, they understand when I'm pulling the string on a CRO site, there's a bunch of other metrics that are going to happen on the ad side. When I'm pulling the ads strings, many other things can happen in the back end. So it's like all like an interconnected game. So that is one thing. Now in terms of how to make more money per customer is I think number one is what is the first thing that customers see when they land on your website. It can be your pre-lander too. Number one it has to stay congruent with the ad. I think this is where more pe most people just go wrong. They they just test through ads and like testing landing page like listical advtorial and PDP and let's say that the PDP is winning. Um, sometimes they just make un what's the word that I'm looking for?

[00:25:29]It's they do not make the right decision because they haven't properly actually AB tested which specific route actually >> delivers the highest revenue per visitor per individual campaign and there is a mismatch that mostly I see between the ad and the PDP. for example, they just try to test and tap into so many different audiences, but their PDP for example, I speak about going back to the menopause example, I speak about menopause on the ads, but then when they get on the site, they I'm just speaking I don't know about like Alzheimer and like more focus and energy. Like what the [ __ ] Like it's such a disproportionate difference. And this is where it creates a lot of friction. Now when they land on the site the site the goal of the site is to uh answer to specific questions as fast as possible.

[00:26:19]For example the there is this um elevator uh elevator pitch principle. Do you know have you heard about it?

[00:26:25]>> No. So, let's say that you're a businessman and I'm a sales guy and I'm just like I'm trying to catch you in an elevator and you're going from the first to the third floor and I have like 5 seconds or maximum 10 seconds to pitch you and just say the most relevant things about >> why you should buy from me, why this is important to you. So then the first thing that customers see is the above the fold area and that's where you have to answer like who you are, >> what do you do, what are the instant benefits that I'm going to get from this. This is why you should buy from me instead of others. Um, and then every single piece of copy has to be relevant with the research that has been done to kind of like hit the highest um triggers for those customers, their highest desires to to just hit on their pain on the desires. And then once you just speak their language, they're like, "Holy [ __ ] like this this brand actually gets me." Then it makes them either scroll over or let's check check the next photo. And then the copy in the second photo or the copy below makes them go even below that. So then they can get more educated. And this is how you make an not even like an unaware brand, an unaware client uh or like a user that it's on the site actually make you buy from your store.

[00:27:43]>> And as a consequence of that, this ties into revenue per visitor. If you manage to do that, then you're going to have a better experience.

[00:27:50]The customer is going to have a better experience and you're going to make a lot more money. Yeah, 100%.

[00:27:56]That's so that's like a really good approach. Um and you know in terms of I would say another factor to account for this is going to be the average order value as well, right?

[00:28:04]>> Yeah.

[00:28:05]>> And um profitability is number one. I would say we t we tie this to number two a metric which is LCV to CAC. So which is lifetime value divided by customer acquisition cost. So ideally we want to have that number um anything above two is to one if you're like looking to scale. So here what it means or or preferably three is to one. So here um one customer can bring back two more customers that that that is like the goal basically right >> and we want that to sustainably scale and majority of our I would say offers majority of our what we do is revolving around that and two factors for LTV is obviously average order value and purchase frequency. So similar to revenue per visitor, let's say the average order value increases, the LCV increases, the repeat purchase, the repeat purchase frequency increases, the LCV increases. Ideally, we want to increase both of them so that it's faster and more profitable. So they have this positive um [ __ ] I forgot that word um positive relation between them. And that's the part that I think it's uh most focused because what I see normally is in the space there are so many retention marketing agencies that call themsel retention marketing but they only know Clavio. If you ask them anything about retention in general they have absolutely zero clue. They don't know how to read a customer cohort. They don't know how to you know see the sell through rate for the products and all that stuff. And I think that's like what's changing in this space as well I would say for agencies um and brands looking to get agencies especially with AI because in my opinion the execution layer which is mostly let's say copy say design or basic setup or whatever that is going to be wiped out by let's say 2027 mid 2027 and the agencies or service providers that will survive here that will be relevant to brands are going to be the ones that are going to be looking at a higher level stuff with I would say it could be done with you mostly pivoting to what's done with you but a done for you with a faster execution level where the execution is done by the AI and top level managers are the one who are managing that focusing on a single metric >> so what is your take on this uh because what I've seen is bro like cloud cloud code cloud skills this so much >> it's like it's very you know high level right so >> but at the same time when AI starts to dominate the market there are a lot of people entering in the space now there is like when a lot of people entering the space >> it's it needs a lot of filtration so same thing with AI slop you know everyone is using AI avatars and whatever now sure there are brands that are making like a [ __ ] ton of money with AI avatars but majority of the guys that doing AI avatars are losing because everyone else is doing them so it's going to be the battle for the top and the level of quality that is required is going to be I would say more than ever.

[00:31:10]So what is your take on this? So I see as let's talk from a service provider standpoint for example like ecom ecom brands >> who to hire uh how to hire things like that I I I agree with you in terms of execution right now it's there is a shift that is happening and so many more people can just like yeah I can just build a landing page like that but what I think it's not going to be commoditized it's going to be expertise >> and insights >> I'm actually quite sad for people that are joining right now in the just only in the AI era because they actually haven't done like the manual stuff before >> like the manual aspect of things just teaches you the owner and the executor >> like so much more than just like I'm just like reading with AI what AI has gathered those insights because you have done like 5 years ago so much more like manual stuff you actually were in the weeds >> so you gain a sense of level of experience that it's going to be a bit hard to acquire >> for the upcoming generation And the other thing is I think we are moving into a space when where an agency really has to understand the whole as you said like the macro level of metrics and seeing exactly here is the key point. They have to hire the right people to make the right decisions. And how do you make that is by having [ __ ] good insights, understanding to read those metrics and um then it's like making the right call like yeah this is exactly that white of campaign this is the right u offer that we should try to push for this black Friday this is the exact same xyz and also I think the agency that are going to stand out are going to be the one that are going to stay top of the game with the current trends as well but current trends matter but you still have to be like okay where is the gap with within those trends.

[00:33:04]>> Yeah.

[00:33:05]>> So this is kind of what I see from a hiring perspective from like a service provider. I think uh a lot of the agencies are going to start offering CFO services. This is what I would see especially the smart ones.

[00:33:15]>> Yeah. But yeah, I mean especially like all another factors for like let's say for e-commerce brands as well, right?

[00:33:21]With AI um sure you need to learn um the fundamentals and everything about business and all that stuff but it's just faster execution general you can test things faster you can you know um build things faster and it's not only about doing things but you can add AI based products as well. So >> yeah, >> uh you know, let's say it's a gifting product, then cool, have a customized AI ebook, customized AI music for them as as a gift, right? It's something that you can add a new product line as well.

[00:33:55]If you're talking about increasing the average order value, you can add AI products, which basically is done by AI.

[00:34:04]So >> cost you nothing.

[00:34:05]>> It cost you like almost nothing and it ships pretty fast. So why not do it?

[00:34:11]Like >> actually I have brands that just you just mentioned in the gifting space that are offering for example >> just like let's say it's a canvas like a customized canvas but then you also get u like a song made by AI and then recorded in the style that you want >> and then it's for I don't know for your wife.

[00:34:30]>> Yeah. Exactly. Now if you like add just like $20 for a personalized music you know and it's going to make them happy.

[00:34:36]It's it's it's done. like Sunno AI, you could like probably [ __ ] make it like less than a dollar. And same thing with supplement space as well, right? So you can make personalized stuff. They they put their details, let's say their height, weight, their problems, whatever. And an AI makes a custom ebook or a custom health journal for that person, which you can then sell for $10, which is going to help them track their progress, which is going to help them, you know, get results faster. So why not? And it's practically like I said nothing to nothing to build right.

[00:35:10]>> So definitely like brands should also be looking at these kind of upsells which um goes beyond product line because they they have this cogs involved in that side of things which I think like using that as stacking stacking things. So if you're you're running subscription product or subscription band your subscription offer could be monthly insights. So monthly like decay that you know put the data or whatever and it it gets them you know custom um insights like something like recommendations.

[00:35:34]>> Yeah exactly. um helps them build personalized stuff and you just need like someone who is a good prompter and uh yeah it's it's it's not that hard. So yeah, we are I think we're going to be seeing like a lot of shifts in the industry regarding this but um yeah, I'm very stoked to see how this AI thing plays out not only just in terms of um service but also as in terms of product for people who actually apply it. What's what's your take on this? Yeah, I I definitely agree with what you said and like I have nothing to add to be honest because I totally agree with what you said like what my question instantly when you said those things is what do you think is going to happen after like after let's say 2 three four five years into this and so many people are going to have AI things cuz right now we are just let's say for the people that are doing this or for the operators that are already implementing this is what is at some point this this market or this trend is going to start to be like on almost like 80 70 90% of the brands.

[00:36:44]What do you do after that to differentiate?

[00:36:46]>> Yeah.

[00:36:46]>> So my my guess in this like AI era is that we are going to turn back into real life human experiences. I think this might be the next the next game and um I don't know exactly how yet. Um but I think it ties to two words like real life human experiences and real life connections because right now with with internet people are so scattered in before we used to have a lot more communities like real comm real real real world communities this was like 8090s and now with the era of internet everyone just staying on their phone people crave a lot more connection and I think the future might be communities in like almost any anything that you could have like yo-yo communities that people are just skating communities whatever it can be in anything um that people are just like genuinely interested to grow in that specific area >> and real life human connection I would say this would be like after and you can catch up you can do that earlier right now >> yeah 100% yeah I think like in my opinion there's that as well because events are going to be a good thing especially in this digital era and um yeah really really stoked to see that So even what we did right now with this mastermind event where we get like only seven, eight or nine figure brands in there, even if they were at different levels, there was so much value that a seven figure share with like an eight or like nine with eight or eight with nine.

[00:38:17]Essentially, I've I've seen firsthand how much they appreciate it just like meeting with people that do the exact same thing as them because they said like I'm in Bali for like a year and I barely know people in e-commerce like that are actually high value people. So, we just managed to do that and it was [ __ ] cool.

[00:38:34]>> So, I would say the same thing is like with a brand with an agency is like bring your people together >> and this is going to make such a huge differentiator in terms of branding authority in almost any kind of business. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I think that's like a very very good thing as well. And it's going to be like global, bro. Like, you know, as far as I know, the guys in Evolve, they hosted like an event in Maresh, bro. So, [ __ ] Africa.

[00:38:58]>> Yeah.

[00:38:59]>> People flew during the war, bro.

[00:39:02]>> Just to get there.

[00:39:03]>> Just to get there, bro. Like, if you had like a whole ass war going on in the Middle East, people still >> bought like tickets and, bro, ticket prices were like above $10,000.

[00:39:14]They went there, paid $2,500 extra and that is like more of what things are going to be like and personal connections like like you said, right?

[00:39:25]And also living in Bali, right? Um pretty sure like you've seen a lot of more like love people, you know, in this digital nomad space as well and places like this are like really good to vibe.

[00:39:36]And it's not only just that, but when when you have a personal connection, apart from the business side of things, you learn so much about the world, >> dude. So much like just meeting you like I'm from Romania, you're from Nepal. I learn from your culture. I learn from your mindset where you're coming from, you learn from mine. And it's just such a it's not even about it's above the game. It's the real life experiences that you're getting by just meeting so many cool individuals. See, it's like, you know, it's it's so weird because um it's just that this digital nomad lifestyle is letting us live this, right? And there's so many people that are doing this and I think it's going to be way more now given that how AI is shifting the world and everything.

[00:40:18]Um but this is you know the with like stuff like this events are more important than ever. Events are more personal than ever. um going about events.

[00:40:28]I also think like that let's say there is like a brand that is like let's say a country specific or like you know what whatever like that they could also host personal events >> dude >> for their customers and it's just going to push the word of mouth. So let's say for example I have a whoop here right?

[00:40:46]So I don't know if they if they do it but if anyone from whoops marketing team is watching this you're not doing videos it's a quick idea for you. Um you could do like real life, you know, maybe like marathons, >> a whoop marathon.

[00:41:00]>> Yeah, exactly. Right. So 5k runs, 10k runs, whatever like that. You could do like uh hierox, whatever. You could do swimming and people with Whoop are going to come here. They're And the best thing about these communities is that you get free marketing. People will post pictures about that. They'll post the whoop stats. They'll post the, you know, all the events. Yeah. And it's gonna it's free marketing >> and you're going to get also partnerships like for example Nike might want to partner up with Whoop. So they imagine just like partnering up with Nike as that kind of a company. Imagine how much exposure credibility it's happening when you're associating yourself with a bigger name. You start to let's say you're in whatever in Bulgaria in in Spain you just do something that you see that your customers need. For example, let's say that you're in health um and like I would say like just um I don't even know like supplements.

[00:41:57]You can associate yourself with a brand that has similar ideal customer and create an event for example like a gathering where people come in there and like share their experiences, help each other heal, grow, uh learn and it doesn't have to be like marathons and [ __ ] It can be almost anything. I know one of our best brands, they do weekly um whenever there is like a health event, they just pop in there with their ice bats and they teach them like the Wimhof and they they they do real human life [ __ ] and this is how they gather customers.

[00:42:31]>> Another one of our biggest uh um I would say grooming like from the pet industry brand, they are doing like 60 million a year. They they go to the CEOs. They go to almost every single grooming event there is in the US. They fly to almost every single one >> and this is another one. And and then they get the customer data, they get their real feedback, improve the product and uh they also make their own events after that because they gather the knowledge like how the others are doing it.

[00:42:58]>> Yeah, exactly. It's like it's so much like you know the shift is happening so much and like I said in the beginning you have to be a market mover in this right so if everyone is doing it and if you're late obviously it's going to be way harder for you but on the upside you will have data in terms of what's working for other people you can like make the differentiation much better but if you're a market mover you'll have more time compared to other competitors to build a moat around that range so I think like you know like in terms connections as well, real life connections, all that stuff are really good. So the trends I think like you know AI using AI for like upsells using AI based products and not just relying on that side I would say digital products in fact community another factor so let's say someone I think IM8 is doing right so that when when someone buys a 90-day 90day uh package they get access to community where they have like athletes they're coaching them or whatever like that and it just builds that I would say brand narrative of improve your health because now they're also getting coached from people >> they're accountable they are kept accountable >> that in heavily increases the perceived value of your product even higher than that >> yeah exactly >> imagine that you're go just going the if you just go the extra mile as Hermosi said in almost every industry in whatever aspect of it if you have like a washing I don't know like laundry place if everyone just washes them in like 2 days you just wash them in like 14 hours 12 hours you just won the you just won that specific segment because of the heavy differentiator and you went the extra mile to build the systems that allow you to be so widely different and more powerful than your competitors.

[00:44:41]>> Yeah, 100%. And in this in this regards, distribution is equally important from what I from what I've seen um it's like people build something and they want so what I've seen is like you know people love their brand obviously, right? I mean it's it's what they've built. They put so much blood, effort, sweat, tears into that, but they love their brand to the point where they are like I would say kind of delusional in terms of uh you know how people perceive it. It's like hey people think my brand is the best. So even if I'm not running like you know ads people should want it or all that stuff and I've seen especially in the tech space where people are like I have built this now people should love it and I've seen the same for e-commerce but here's the thing at the end of the day your biggest mo is going to be your distribution >> and especially with your you new things like community AI cool you've built that but how are you building that distribution channel for these things as Because at the end of the day, like you're a backend channel, we're a backend channel. We both for our agencies, we need traffic. That's what we need. And you need a good distribution system so that you can acquire traffic and we can help them convert and retain for you. That is what we practically do, right?

[00:46:04]>> Yeah. So, how do you do that at scale?

[00:46:07]>> Exactly. The reason that I see most guys that fail to scale past eight figures sustainably are the guys that don't know their numbers properly. Cool. They hit that 1 2 3 $4 million per month, but they don't track their numbers and they don't know when to double down and when to pivot >> and on what to double down.

[00:46:26]>> Exactly. So, they see their rorowass go down a bit and they're like, "Ah, [ __ ] I need to scale down automatically.

[00:46:32]>> It's meta. It's under meta."

[00:46:34]>> Yeah. Exactly. Whatever. Like, you know, it's meta. This is, you know, it's the [ __ ] competitors, whatever. It's the meta zuck, bro. If you know your numbers, trust me, it's so much easier to look past that and actually know your numbers. What people need to understand is that the the Facebook gods are not against you. It's just that you don't know what to focus on. The only metric that they track or the only channel that they make decisions based off of is going to be like either Meta or like Tik Tok or whatever. Know your numbers. If you know your numbers, cool. You might be unprofitable in the first first month. However, if your retention is good and you know that it's good, you know your metrics are good, then you can acquire the customer at break even or at a loss and convert them better. Now, if you're at a loss, cool. Have something that is that they're going to buy again so that you're profitable and it's not just the meta, it's not just the creative. So, it is one a huge chunk of of your business is going to be dialed down through acquisition. But if you don't know your numbers, bro, like you're not an operator, you're a marketer. And I've seen the problem with that especially in the drop shipping space is most of the drop shippers are excellent marketers but they're terrible operators and that's the reason that they can't scale.

[00:47:47]>> But why do you how do you how do you see for example let's say that I am an I'm an 8 figureure brand and let's say that I'm doing 30 million a year and my profit margin is like let's say like 15%. and I have a let's say like a 15% also returning customer rate.

[00:48:07]It's it's tough or let's say even 10.

[00:48:10]It's tough.

[00:48:11]>> Um what do you think would be the biggest levers for me to heavily heavily increase my profit margin because frankly like I I was doing the same profit as I was doing like when I was like at 10 million. What what is the issue? What is the thing that I'm missing right now?

[00:48:26]>> LCV to C ratio. That's all that's the only metric that you need to track if you want to be profitable. That's it.

[00:48:32]LTV to CA.

[00:48:33]>> Let's say that I'm already in the situation right now. I'm I'm I know about it. What would be the the action steps that I should take in order to fix it?

[00:48:41]>> Okay. So, LTV to CA LTV, right? That's like with CAC, your goal is to reduce the CAC, increase the LTV. So, if you want to reduce the CAC, first you have to number one start at different markets, start at different awareness levels. If you're running meta ads, cool. Start diversifying your acquisition channels into you could look into Google you could Tik Tok app native ads tabula all that stuff and start also looking at let's say if you're running mostly meta ads for solution aware people cool now have a different funnel to target problem aware now this what you're doing is you're increasing your tam size so that your frequency is much lower and your CPMs starts to drop >> now your goal is to convert those people obviously you can't just run ads and forget you have to convert them >> lower the that way. Have better creatives. At the end of the day, creatives is what creates scale. Have a system where you can launch as many creatives as humanely possible and have a system to track and improve them.

[00:49:36]>> That's with with the customer aggression cost and have like you know better better CRO stuff. You if you have like higher conversions obviously your CAG is lower >> obviously.

[00:49:45]>> LTV average order value and push frequency. How to increase your average order value?

[00:49:49]>> What you do is you have bundles.

[00:49:51]>> Post purchase upselles.

[00:49:52]>> Exactly. Post upselles. you have better better offers. You have let's say 90day packages, whatever like that. Average order value, have more product lines, have bundles, all that stuff. Purchase frequency, have products that people will buy. again. Number one, have like a actually have a good product that people went and it's not [ __ ] scammy or whatever cuz bro, there was one time when I had like a sales call and the guy told me, "Hey, our we want to increase our returning customers and you know, it's like the old agencies are [ __ ] I've tried them whatever they they can't get they can't get my, you know, returning customer up and I asked them other products." So, you know, like what what is like how long does it take you to ship? Oh, we don't ship them.

[00:50:36]>> What?

[00:50:38]>> No shippers. And they want to increase their what the [ __ ] are you talking about? Just give just create a good product. And you have guys that that are shipping the product after like one month.

[00:50:47]>> You have guys that are product don't even work. So have a genuine product that people will buy again number one and give them a reason to buy again from you. So improve the customer relationship after the post purchase.

[00:51:02]Have pre- purchase I would say messaging angles framed at you know let's say supplement supplement is not going to you know fix your problem immediately.

[00:51:10]You need to like be consist >> you need to yeah you need to use >> build a habit of adoption frame frame it properly and um have touch points that kind of like um is target towards when they're about to buy again. So use the customer cohort data and to retarget accordingly and just give a [ __ ] about your brand. Like it's not that hard, right? So that's like I would say uh are the ways to increase the LTV CAC.

[00:51:35]>> Nice. Sick. And this is by doing that I'm essentially making sure that I'm putting more profit into my pockets.

[00:51:42]>> Exactly.

[00:51:43]>> As well. Interesting. Not only just profit, if you're trying to raise valuation, if you're trying to raise money, this is going to help you get a better better valuation so that your dilution is lower. Like as a founder, the worst thing that you can possibly want is your shares to be diluted to the point where you're not even a decision maker in your own company anymore.

[00:52:01]>> And if you want a better valuation, you need to have a good margin. And you know, profit profit, better valuation, better margin, whatever. At the end of the day, all the business, every single business in the world comes down to who scale comes down to LVD. So if one customer's LTV is enough to pay back for the acquisition cost and buy three more customers, you can scale. You will scale. There's like no denying it. One customer gives you enough money to buy back three customers.

[00:52:31]>> That's like, you know, 100% profit. So why not focus on that?

[00:52:35]>> Yeah. [ __ ] On top of this, I want to add one more thing which I saw one only one brand doing this, one of our clients and they I think they're doing [ __ ] fantastic. They have systems for getting customer feedback by calling them.

[00:52:50]>> Mhm.

[00:52:50]>> On an on a let's say after 14 15 days of getting the product or if it's a supplement after 30 days but this would be for this specific case like 14 days.

[00:52:59]Um and what is happening they get the data the customers see that the brand actually like gives a [ __ ] about them and what is happening they refer them to other other clients after they give them other clients like by word of mouth >> and they become repurchasers >> because you done what 99.9999 of brands are not doing which is actually just like giving a [ __ ] about the end customer. It's the same in agency space. Why do you think most most brands churn? Like it's two things. It's like results like they don't see the results and it's two it's care. For example, the if you care a lot more as an agency for your for for your client, for the client's brand, they will stay with you even if you have a bad month.

[00:53:41]It happens. It happens. It's it's normal. Sometimes it's even out of your control because >> so many things are happening right now in the in the world with like the wars and Trump and like so many other topics that >> are out of our control. And sometimes those things affect meta too and the updates that are launching. So I think the number one thing differentiator is ultimately care.

[00:54:03]>> Yeah. Yeah. I think this conversation was really insightful. I hope the guys watching this >> you guys also have like a pretty good um insight as to what it is. But yeah, bro like it was it's a pleasure meeting you doing events with you.

[00:54:16]>> How people how people can find you?

[00:54:18]>> Um oh yeah [ __ ] Um so you can find me on Instagram. Uh we'll have the link down here somewhere. Uh I have my YouTube, I have my Discord, all the links will be down here. Um both me and Andre.

[00:54:30]>> Same.

[00:54:31]>> And um yeah, if you guys have anything, just hit us up. If you want us to work with us, book a call. Uh whatever that you guys want, right? So >> ask us in the comments like we will we might make like a new podcast cuz we are going to meet again this year.

[00:54:44]>> Yeah. If you want to like you know suggest us any topics, it could be a virtual podcast, could be a real podcast or whatever. Maybe you know Bali, maybe somewhere else, Dubai or whatever. But um yeah, man. Awesome. It was really good to see you, bro.

[00:54:55]>> Likewise, brother.

[00:54:56]>> All right. Peace.