Is This Revenge? 'Black British' Is Not An Identity. Live Discussion Vol.6.5

Added: 2026-05-25

[00:00:00]Like, going to school, I realized why they were doing that, cuz a lot of Africans were being picked on in school and stuff. Like, we were mocked for uh they would mock our accents, they mocked our, you know, we looked and stuff like that. So, like, a lot of Africans felt like appropriating with Jamaica would get them girls or make them look cool and stuff, you see?

[00:00:22]So, then, a lot of Africans yeah, >> [clears throat] >> did, you know, try to be Jamaican those those times. But, >> Coming from Ghana, we were speaking Patois before we even came to England.

[00:00:35]I actually saw a video just 2 days ago from a Ghanaian guy on YouTube who he's still in Ghana and he I think he's like a producer, he does music over there.

[00:00:48]And he said that you guys had like, um uh Jamaican Patois books. the usage of Patois, which is from Jamaica, that we Africans mostly, especially Ghanaians, mostly use in our music. Back in the '90s, right?

[00:01:03]Before I left Ghana, we used to have this book that if you wanted to learn Patois, you could learn it. You could go through it and actually study it. And a lot of Ghanaians were doing that.

[00:01:13]Because we were so fascinated, we were so gravitated towards like, you know, like Bob Marley, all these people, all these artists, um Elephant Man, all these people coming from Jamaica, Yellowman and all that. So, the Ghanaian young aspiring artists wanted to actually [music] learn how to use Patois in their music. We thought it was cool.

[00:01:27]That was just That's just how we are as Ghanaians. We never [music] lose our own. We always want to learn something new, and the person that knows how to, you know, speak Patois better, we we we we we appeal the person. We think that that person is the coolest ever. So, like, learn Jamaican Patois >> Yeah. in Ghana, and then, of course, many people use that in their music over there, like in the in the in Jamaican dancehall music, but in Ghana. Yeah.

[00:01:50]>> That's what he said. Is that true? Yeah, that's very true. Uh Benjamin, I'm going to let Brit respond to you then if you were talking to her and not to you. Go ahead, Britt. I can still hear you.

[00:02:00]Okay, so the thing is Yep, people are actually doing that in here in America and on panels. That is why this all started. That's why the whole issue of us going back and forth forth and us even acknowledging any of this because it's really we focus on the issues that we have going on here in America. That's really and that's why a lot of people say that we are self-centered and we got we're always in our own little worlds because we focus on a lot of the issues that we have going on here in America. In America.

[00:02:29]So, the reason why you guys are now hearing an influx of things coming from black Americans is because we've been hearing a lot of hate from Africans when which caught us off guard.

[00:02:40]We never knew that you guys felt the way that you did about us calling us S babies, akatas, and talking about our ancestors. So, when you go that low, everything is fair game at that point.

[00:02:52]And whatever comes out of our people's mouths at that Call up BH. Sorry.

[00:02:57]Whatever comes out of our people's mouths at that point as a result, you you called for it. You asked for it. Because we've never been a people to back down. We've been having to fight people living on the land with people who always tried to belittle us because and make us feel as if we're as as if we're less than. So, we're used to it. So, we're used to fighting back and clapping back. So, you think we're not going to do that to someone else? And you want Oh, you guys are afraid of being African. You just You're pretentious. At the end of the day, we are neither.

[00:03:28]We are simply black Americans. We are a new group of people. So, I don't have to acknowledge and say that I am African because why? What does it do for you?

[00:03:37]None of it does anything for anyone. At the end of the day, I am just simply black American. That is it. And if I wanted to take the black out of it and just say I'm simply American, and that is just my priority. Like that's my prerogative. Me and my people I'm Huh?

[00:03:54]And I said which is absolutely fine.

[00:03:56]Exactly. So it should never be an issue with people going back and forth online about how we choose to identify. If we don't want to put the African-American in front because we've never we've never agreed to that. We've always had people labeling us as such or reclassifying us and we are tired of it.

[00:04:14]So that's all it is. No hate towards Africans. I love everybody, but I don't like the disrespect for towards our ancestors or the the attempt to erase our people. I can't stand it. I don't like it. We are who we are.

[00:04:27]And that's just that.

[00:04:30]Brie, just to ask a question. Is there a specific maybe African country? Is there a region that you're referring to? It's West Africans. It's it's always West Africans. Always the Nigerians. I I don't know what's wrong with the Nigerians, but they have some type of issue.

[00:04:48]I don't know what it is.

[00:04:49]On that, we agree.

[00:04:52]>> [laughter] >> You agree with that, Benjamin? Why?

[00:04:55]Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. It's It's on that list of countries I just don't like in Africa. It It I I That's like a personal pet peeve. I'm sorry.

[00:05:04]It's You got too many people to not function like that, bro. Come on. You got like so many things going for you and you're just not succeeding. I can't stand it, but it it's it That's That's besides the point, but >> mean from a political standpoint? Are you blaming Benjamin or the people?

[00:05:20]From the what?

[00:05:22]From a political standpoint or you mean the people, like the Nigerian people? I would say kind of both. I know normally you should separate the political like the political entity from the people.

[00:05:35]But a lot of things that's like wrong in Nigeria, I always see it as like what we could be if we keep effing up, right? Like they they they have so many things there where like you You like there's more wealth and people, so they will figure this stuff out. But they just push the the negative stuff even further. Okay, you said the same thing with the Congo as well.

[00:05:54]>> you like you know like you know like you know I don't know who. Who [clears throat] Benjamin? Who?

[00:05:59]Who pushes the negative further? I'm not I'm not trying to be one of those, but it's it's a lot of West African mainly Nigeria. Like you know when people talk about tribalism, right? Most of it is over there. Like the oppress don't even do it like that.

[00:06:13]But Benjamin, you know you You know it's not like hold on. Sorry.

[00:06:18]>> Benjamin, Benjamin, you know you know it's like it's not it's not all Nigerians. Mhm. I'm not saying it's So you're going to bring me back to my racketeers as an example if you do that.

[00:06:29]I never got to finish by the way. DJ interrupted me.

[00:06:34]I'm just saying it's not all Nigerians.

[00:06:35]You have an issue with how they do things over there. Somebody said tribalism is good, okay? Or the people you said both. I'm saying it's not all of them though.

[00:06:46]Yeah, and they have they they've done a lot as well.

[00:06:48]>> Hold on. Let him respond. It's not all of them. Okay, now I'm going to have to bring up the racketeers example because DJ interrupted me. The issue with so this is different because we we we agreed because we somebody said Benjamin you're exhibiting tribalism but blaming Nigeria. How am I exhibiting tribalism? I don't even do the tribe stuff.

[00:07:12]>> [sighs] >> But you're saying it in Nigeria. 755 black American was saying that because we can't say I don't think we can say the full word. So r a c i s m. I don't think we can say on here, so rack rackism. Thank you Anita. The argument about rackism it it's different because in the UK, you know, Africans are majority or you're sit they're just happen to be doing it more whatever. So I can't speak on UK exactly, but in the US for example, I would make I would make the argument that like most of us just say that you know, you're either just yeah, probably African descendants or you're probably not African. And there is some that are extremists like you know, you guys are just Africans. See they have that identity effect. But then I would make the argument that on your side, you have the people that also like deny being like African descendants or like stuff like that. So it's more of like a both side thing. That's here. I'm not making the argument for the UK. So it would be weird if you use racism which is like a one way thing cuz I can be out here dominating the institution that the white man has the majority of the population of. It's not the same thing cuz racism is a one way issue, right? This here, excluding the UK, in America it's not a one way thing.

[00:08:29]You see that's why but it doesn't apply in the UK cuz you guys have your thing but it the racism example doesn't work.

[00:08:36]Cuz I don't have any sort of dominance or institutional advantage over some some what you call them some Caribbean.

[00:08:44]But yeah, Nigeria and South Africa, I just can't mess with those guys. And land is your plane.

[00:08:49]Why South Africa? Nah, bro. You're going to have to interrupt me.

[00:08:53]Anything between like race race like a specific race of people, we know race is a social construct but we go with it anyway, right? So anything between a specific racial group of people would not be called like racism. I understand that. But I had to use the example of where you can't generalize a whole group. That was the purpose of my example not to say it's the exact same thing, right?

[00:09:17]Uh but it just aligned with my specific point. Okay, cool.

[00:09:22]So does it work if I do it?

[00:09:25]Let me Let me bring more people in. Let me bring more people in. Okay, hold on.

[00:09:28]Uh um D D Hill, thank you. I'm going to disconnect you for now and let more people come through, okay?

[00:09:35]>> Great. Uh you can drop me if you want to. Okay, thanks. great.

[00:09:40]Thanks for joining. Okay.

[00:09:42]Um look >> [laughter] >> Let's bring in uh ad scrubs, your ethnic background and where you're based. Guys, send me pretty things and let's get this to 150k over the next hour or something, okay? Cool. Anyway, thank you, Miani. Uh go ahead ad scrubs.

[00:10:03]Thank you, Mrs. Beautiful. Uh hi >> know what your ethnic background is and where you're based. Um um my name's Denzel. It's just that I don't I'm a I work in a school and I don't want my students to be following my Tik Tok and stuff like that, but um Okay. Um I'm British-Ghanaian. I'm born in London.

[00:10:24]Um yeah, um >> [clears throat] >> I still live at home.

[00:10:26]>> Okay.

[00:10:27]Um No problem. Uh growing up I I would I'll tell you my experience. Growing up um there was a little bit more Caribbeans than Africans, especially where I grew up. I grew up in Croydon. Um I still think there's a little bit more Caribbeans, especially in Tottenham Heath, than Africans, especially um Ghanaians.

[00:10:48]Um but >> Is Croydon south Yeah.

[00:10:51]>> of London? Yeah.

[00:10:53]>> Yeah, cuz I like I'm pretty sure yeah, I've always known that uh south London has heavy Caribbean communities.

[00:11:02]>> Yeah. Like Thank you. Uh like Brixton and that. Yeah. I I I was I I moved from Birmingham to to north London for uni. Okay. And um Yeah, there weren't Caribbeans there like that. But obviously we're talking about completely different times. So >> Uh But yeah, go go ahead. Go ahead. The yeah, I was going to say like times now.

[00:11:25]That's why um I would agree with you to a certain extent because times now um what you said is true. There's way more Africans than Caribbeans. And I do feel like >> Statistically, those are that's the population data currently.

[00:11:38]>> Yeah, no, 100% and um I would say that So, growing up as I'll tell you my story. Growing up as a African a kid going to high school um Africans faced a lot of bullying.

[00:11:53]Um I don't know if you referenced it, but um a lot of Africans would say that they're Caribbean Jamaicans. I wasn't one of them because my dad was a half African dude.

[00:12:06]But um Askia, are you taking a piss?

[00:12:10]Me?

[00:12:12]Yeah, man. I'm hearing I'm hearing wee wee or washing a pan.

[00:12:15]>> not me. Oh, wait. That question was literal?

[00:12:18]No, that's not me. Sorry.

[00:12:19]>> Yeah, like actually pee.

[00:12:21]I thought it was an expression. I'm not in the toilet.

[00:12:26]Okay, who's uh okay. Um Askia, are you sitting down cuz I'm hearing liquid?

[00:12:32]>> No, no, no, no, no. Absolutely not. I'm not I'm positive that I'm not I'm not in the toilet at all. I'm not Someone's saying he's taking a number two.

[00:12:41]No, I'm not in the toilet.

[00:12:43]>> [laughter] >> I was confused. Sorry. I apologize. I'm like in my living room. Sorry about that.

[00:12:49]>> Wait, isn't taking a piss like a a British like expression for something else? No, no, no, no, no, no. Benjamin, hold Okay, one second, Askia. Let me let Benjamin in. I said I was washing my hands. Like I'm I'm trying to make breakfast. Oh my god. I It's timeless.

[00:13:04]It's timeless. What? I'm going to stop.

[00:13:06]Benjamin, I didn't say are you taking the I didn't say are you taking the piss.

[00:13:12]I said are you taking a piss. So, a piss is a a piss is a pee like I'm taking a piss, right? But when someone's saying like are you taking the piss like when you hear me say are you taking the piss like you're taking the piss. I'm like are you are you actually like are you taking the piss like you're trying to violate me? Are you Are you Are you You think I'm a [ __ ] Like That's what that is. But I said, "Are you taking our piss?" So, the two terms mean different things depending on the context.

[00:13:38]>> So, when someone says, "Are you taking the piss?" That means like are you making fun of me? Is that what that means? Yeah, essentially. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:47]>> is Here's the issue.

[00:13:48]>> Or like uh Wait. What would you guys say? I don't know what mug like means in that context, bro.

[00:13:55]Okay, same thing. So, what would you guys say in the States? Um No, that means you're a prick.

[00:14:02]>> Like are you messing with me? Yes. Yeah.

[00:14:06]Yeah.

[00:14:06]>> But here's the thing. Here's the thing.

[00:14:07]With your accent, when you say when you say it fast, uh and the sounds the same.

[00:14:13]I didn't hear much of a difference when you say, "Are you taking the piss?" and "Are you taking the piss?" I get it. I get it.

[00:14:20]Thank you.

[00:14:21]>> I think he is pissing so Are you taking me for an idiot? Correct? Oh, okay.

[00:14:27]Yeah, but I Yeah, no, but um to to So, Benjamin, the reason I said, "Are you taking taking a piss? Are you taking the piss?" is cuz I'm I was hearing water like pouring and it sounded like you know them ones where it's like being held and then releasing and held and then releasing when a dude like >> that was a uh I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I've been on so many lives with British people. They always get mad. So, I've tried so hard I I like the accent and I'm intrigued. So, I try so hard not to ask questions. But then stuff like this I I really wish I could just sit down and watch the movie. Have you guys seen uh Kingsman: Golden Circle? The Golden Circle?

[00:15:04]With uh What's his name? Taron Egger- Egerton?

[00:15:07]>> Did you say Kingsman? Kingsman. Yeah.

[00:15:09]The Golden Circle.

[00:15:10]>> Yeah, I haven't Is that the final one? I haven't watched the final one, you know, the third one. No, we stopped counting after that one. It It's like there are so many things they say where I'm like, "What the [ __ ] did Sorry. What did you just say right there? Like that doesn't even What does that mean?" They're using words I understand, but I don't know what they mean.

[00:15:30]And expressions, and it's like, "Wow."

[00:15:34]These people speak our language.

[00:15:35]>> your If you watch your Little Britain series, you'll probably uh really struggle. I mean, I understand the this guy's accent. I think it's amazing, but a lot of Americans they couldn't understand it. There are loads of accents in Britain, so I remember that one scene in What's that movie from? I forgot what his name is.

[00:15:54]That Edgar Wright movie. Where like They're all British, right? It's in the UK.

[00:15:59]Uh I think it's Hot Fuzz. Where they go to this rural place, and then they they try to interrogate this dude. He says something, and then uh what's his name? Benjamin Not Benjamin. I forgot what his name is. He looks at the other British guy to translate, and then he says some [ __ ] in a deep accent, and then he looks at the other guy to translate what he just said. And then he says it in like a Welsh language or accent or whatever, and then he goes, "Well, what's the point?"

[00:16:25]I don't know. I don't know.

[00:16:27]>> I haven't seen Hot Fuzz in ages. I need to watch I need to watch Hot Fuzz again.

[00:16:31]Okay, cool. You found me out, Benjamin.

[00:16:34]Let me let I just have to finish. Yeah, sorry. Also, it wasn't me.

[00:16:38]Like I do it cuz I'll go to go back to what I was saying.

[00:16:41]Um so, right now um a lot of Africans used to get bullied a lot by Caribbeans.

[00:16:47]Um I was a I was one of them. I was a uh a kid that was bullied by Caribbeans in high school.

[00:16:55]Um and you know, I can understand now it's like the to No pun intended, but like the tables have turned, I feel. And I feel like a lot of adult Africans um I don't know still harbor this.

[00:17:15]I agree. I believe that they still hold resentment for sure. Which is which is which is understandable. Do you understand? Because I do believe bullying affects people to where they are to where they are older. However, I don't I don't think it's um um I don't think it's helpful.

[00:17:34]Um when you were talking about um exception to the rule um a lot of Caribbeans have been disrespectful. It might my experience I had in my life growing up um I like I said, I live a lot live among a lot of a lot of Caribbeans. A lot of Caribbeans, maybe the majority of my life have been disrespectful to Africans. I have met Caribbeans that are um are respectful. I have Caribbean friends that I love till this day.

[00:18:10]Um but however um my experience has been that I've seen a lot of Caribbeans like you say um you know, don't respect Africans at all.

[00:18:24]So, I would ask I would ask does that mean um in the same way as your argument when you were talking about how Africans don't respect and especially the Africans you come across um don't respect your Caribbean identity.

[00:18:44]Would it be the same for me and my experience?

[00:18:47]And then would I be able to judge Caribbeans in the same way?

[00:18:52]Because um I like I I again, I don't. Do you understand? But I'm just saying using your argument, that's what I'm trying that's what I wanted to ask.

[00:19:02]Okay.

[00:19:04]Yeah. Okay, cool. I'll respond. So, if your your childhood traumas, right, are um valid you have childhood traumas.

[00:19:15]And there are people that have childhood traumas.

[00:19:19]Many people have childhood traumas. Many of us have childhood traumas, but in your case, as far as, um, African identity and what you experienced in school and so on, that's that's a trauma.

[00:19:30]I acknowledge that there will be people who have these traumas from when they were children.

[00:19:37]If you are uncomfortable with people who are Caribbean heritage now as an adult because of what happened as a child, then that's not for me to decide on whether you're right or wrong. I think if you have traumas, you have traumas, and that's just what that is. If you have resentments, then that's just what that is. My thing is this, what I'm seeing now isn't from children, cuz it wouldn't be relevant. I'm seeing things from adults.

[00:20:04]And if the case is that it's because of childhood trauma, which, you know, I think there's resentment. Like I'm very clear on that. I think people just don't want to acknowledge it. Um, but if it's because of resentment and it's all my turn. I saw one guy say, "Oh, who cares about Jamaicans? It's African now. It's African now." Yeah, cool. Like if that's how people feel, that's fine.

[00:20:27]If If that's how people feel.

[00:20:28]>> Okay. If people feel like it's their time Mhm. to get revenge as an adult now.

[00:20:36]Our Caribbean heritage people, my thing is that's neither here nor there because, um, as long as you don't get mad when Caribbean heritage people respond to that cuz we're all grown now.

[00:20:49]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:20:50]>> So, anything anything that happened from school, right? It's from school, and children being kids and and and feeling uncomfortable and and trauma from school.

[00:21:01]>> I I I mean, I'm not I'm not going to tell anyone how to feel about their childhood traumas and how they digest that now.

[00:21:10]And how they feel towards specific communities, Caribbean communities now.

[00:21:14]I can't tell anyone how to feel about that now. But my point is right now, if we're all adults and people are holding those resentments, they need to be honest about those resentments. Cuz what I'm seeing are people pretending they don't have resentments. Or being aggressive or being micro showing little microaggressions or saying stupid [ __ ] that's unprovoked. And then I sit there and I say, "Yeah, that's cuz they're feeling some way." They're bothered about something. And there's people with their eyes closed just, "Oh no, listen, they were just they they didn't mean it.

[00:21:45]They meant it. They meant it." And they meant it how I saw it. They meant it how they meant it. They meant it how they said it. And that's fine. Just stand on that [ __ ] though. Because when I come down to that level, it won't be fun.

[00:21:57]That's all I'm saying. So so my thing is this, innit? Um The guy that did the Jafakecan movie, he's Nigerian.

[00:22:05]Uh What's his name? Freddy Unwaka.

[00:22:07]Freddy Unwaka. He did he did that film that offended a bunch of Jamaican heritage people and Jamaicans, right?

[00:22:13]Didn't want to apologize for it, okay?

[00:22:15]My my kids are half Jamaican. People get offended by everything these days. And he's he said a bunch of foolishness. But then also said he was once the biggest Jafakecan, right? And then posted videos of him doing his little Jamaican accent and rapping. He's Jamaican now, right?

[00:22:31]And lying and saying he used to be Jamaican. Cool. I've seen another guy who's Nigerian.

[00:22:36]What's annoying is I'm seeing this on like a big stage. It's not like you make a movies or you're on panels or like podcasts or like big platforms, right?

[00:22:44]And you know, if you know who Poet's Corner is, he was on on some show. And then there was this Nigerian dude. I didn't know who he was. But then he started saying things that just sounded like he was trying to come for Jamaican people. And then when Poet's Corner said to him, "Yo, like you're trying to just disrespect our thing. Like what's that?

[00:23:02]Now, I have disrespected Jamaicans. I used to be one. I used to be one making joke cuz he used to lie about being Jamaican, but I say, "Oh, no." But Politics Corner picked up on the fact that he was being funny.

[00:23:15]And then his response was, "No, no, no.

[00:23:16]I used to be one. I'm not being funny."

[00:23:18]But my point is this, resentment turns into or trauma turns into resentment, and people have to acknowledge the fact that trauma turns into resentment. I don't want people Thank you being blind to that reality because it gets us into stupid situations where people are getting braver, more vocal, louder, going on platforms and saying stupid [ __ ] and confusing people. In addition to that, I would say as Squabs, what I have a problem with is people that potentially hold these traumas and so on, going onto platforms, right?

[00:23:57]Or coming on here, or making videos, or doing content where they're essentially attempting to deny Caribbean heritage people in Britain of an identity. Take from it and say, "No, well, you guys are all African just like me, and your language is as You don't You don't even speak your own language. You speak Nigerian pigeon, right? Or you guys aren't Caribbean, you're African. You're African." And it's this this thing of like trying to essentially conquer an identity. When I see [ __ ] like that, I don't I don't care about your trauma now. I like I don't care about it. Not now. I like I understand. I understand.

[00:24:32]If you're an adult If you're an adult and you and you're coming for my community, right? In Britain, you come for me, my heritage, my community in Britain, Caribbean heritage people in Britain, and I see it, I will match it.

[00:24:46]It's as simple as that. Like granted, people have childhood traumas. I have childhood traumas. Many of us do for different reasons, right? But the way you start acting now when we're adults is something else. And if I keep saying something, then I'm going to respond.

[00:25:00]And that's just how I see it. So, no. I do not ignore the fact that there were people that felt uncomfortable with being African once as they when when they were children. Even Burna Boy talks about the fact that he didn't like being Nigerian when he was in the UK. But I never wanted or that feeling or [ __ ] was I wasn't [ __ ] with it when I was younger. But then it's like it took it took me leaving Nigeria.

[00:25:27]And just being in a place where I wanted to forget I was even Nigerian.

[00:25:33]You understand? Like I wouldn't even What why did that come about? Did you wanted to Did you name >> Bro, I wasn't To be honest, I wasn't proud to be Nigerian, bro. Why? It wasn't [snorts] really a proud thing to be at the time. Yes. You feel me? Like and that's the truth. It wasn't It wasn't really a proud It's coming from the being in the UK and stuff at the time. It wasn't really the proudest thing to be. He said it wasn't cool to be Nigerian and he hated being Nigerian.

[00:25:56]Yeah, I'm aware that these things are the case. How you deal with that though is completely up to you in terms of how Not you specifically, but how the people I'm referring to deal with it. It's up to them. My only thing is this, innit?

[00:26:10]As long as you don't expect, if you deal with it a particular way that I don't like, as long as you don't expect me and my community to respond to that. Because when I moved to London, I didn't have any issues in my mind with West African people. I didn't.

[00:26:28]I remember what happened in school as far as um when Caribbean people would speak to Caribbean people cuz there weren't many Africans in my school at all or people of African >> I could Could I ask a question So, just a second. So, Caribbean people were like when they about Birmingham and what was What was the What was it like for What was the like the African population in Birmingham at that time when you were growing up and what was the dynamic like?

[00:26:57]Okay, so in Birmingham growing up the the racially black people for the majority the most part were Caribbean heritage. I didn't grow up around West African people at all.

[00:27:10]Um in my school I had I think there was one one person that was West African in my year group. Um and in my primary school there were two West African people.

[00:27:24]And then I think in my in my secondary school there was like one West African person in the year below me or something like that. It wasn't the majority of people in Birmingham were Caribbean heritage, right?

[00:27:34]Um and then there was like a Somali community but they were very to themselves, Caribbeans were very to themselves, Asians were very to themselves. Like it was quite it was you know people kind of were to themselves. It's not like London really, right? Um but the majority of racially black people were Caribbean.

[00:27:52]So if anything came up as far as like Africanness, unfortunately it would have been if a Caribbean heritage person was speaking to a Caribbean heritage person and they were mocking something about them. I can acknowledge that that happened, right? But like there weren't any like West African people to to bully like that in my school. Now in London I imagine if there were loads of different uh communities of uh black people so uh Caribbean people and African people and so on and so forth, then yeah I imagine you guys probably experienced a lot in your schools and so on. But by the time I got to London for university like we're adults, right? So I didn't I didn't run into any of that. Like I was quite immersed in different communities and and with different communities. In London, it was the first time I had Somali people uh just showing a bag of love towards me.

[00:28:56]Like it was it was new. Like it's just a different planet, right?

[00:29:00]So, that's why it's even more so confusing to me to see the [ __ ] I'm seeing now because in London, I I didn't run into any of it. I just didn't. I didn't. So, unless people were who were of West African backgrounds that I was around were were holding certain things in.

[00:29:17]Mhm. Cuz I think that's the I mean, a lot of people hold things in and then they turn to the internet and start yapping. But, um I didn't I didn't run into this this [ __ ] It's like now I'm seeing it and it's loud. It's very loud.

[00:29:31]And I think some people are using these spaces as a way to vent in an in a way where they don't have to say exactly how they're feeling, but they're they're using the time to try and violate people who are Caribbean heritage. That's what I feel I'm seeing right now.

[00:29:44]>> Right. Right. No, 100% um that's why um that's why I was when I was watching the video, I was I was just trying to understand. And um uh talking about my experience, like I the because a lot of there's a lot you've said, so I'll try to unpack everything. And um also, I wanted to also refer to something you were talking about um was it MC mix cultural heritage? I can't remember what the actual term was.

[00:30:14]Who? You. Uh it I it wasn't mix it was mix heritage or mix Oh, MGM.

[00:30:20]Multi-generational mix. You're right.

[00:30:22]MGM.

[00:30:22]>> That is what because I asked the question that um is it only Caribbeans that could be that? Because if we're using that term, Africans also >> Af- I don't think so at all.

[00:30:36]There are there are people of who are racially black of of from loads of different places that are MGM. There are people in uh for example Sierra Leone who have a particular history of a very interesting history. I imagine some of them are MGM. There are people in Louisiana in in in the US who would be MGM. There are people that are cruel that Yeah, no, it's not unique to the the Caribbean or the African >> Because watching your live, I could just see that you're not talking about you're not you don't have any African ancestry, which shouldn't matter anyway. Do you understand? If you did So, wait. Repeat that. Sorry. What did you say? I said watching your live, you said that you did have African African ancestry, which shouldn't Yeah, yeah, I know that for sure, of course.

[00:31:26]>> But it it shouldn't matter anyway because you are Caribbean and it's not that whether you're African or not. I think it's what you said today is is a fact.

[00:31:36]We are what we are today. I'm not only Ghanaian, I'm Tobagonian as well. Do you understand? But um Ancient, do you speak French? No, I can't speak French. I can't speak French. I've tried to learn Ewe right now. So, but it's >> Okay. it's difficult. Um but so, I understand the argument. Do you understand? I think that I just feel like all I wanted to say was I feel like it's a lot of it is coming from childhood. However, I I see it from both sides. I like there is there are Caribbeans today that don't respect Africans. Do you understand? And stick to their communities, especially in London, Brixton, and in Croydon. Um but then there are Africans and Caribbeans that mix. And so, I do feel like there's a change and it's interesting to see now because growing up I wouldn't have seen this this didn't happen. This like you wouldn't get a lot of Africans having a lot of talk for Caribbeans or anything like that. But, um >> No. It's it it's interesting.

[00:32:47]>> when I saw this [ __ ] I said, "Oh, what's what's going on?

[00:32:50]>> [laughter] >> What?"

[00:32:51]What? What's going on? Why are people hot? Cuz >> I think um I I want to drop down because I want other people to talk, but can I ask, in your experience, has it been people that are British-born Africans or has it been mainly Africans like or >> That's a really good question.

[00:33:09]>> uh that have this Yeah, yeah. So, the majority of people that even the way this whole uh conversation started in terms of when I started doing the live, it has been uh I can't I can't say if they were born in Britain. They are British, though. So, they have British accents.

[00:33:28]>> Okay.

[00:33:28]>> They're Nigerian or they're Ghanaian.

[00:33:30]And then we've had like a few people that are not from Britain who are of West African backgrounds, they're Nigerian or they're Ghanaian or different locations, right? Who have uh defended their behavior or said [ __ ] like Jamaicans are nothing without Africa and stupid [ __ ] right? Um So, yeah, I think it has been a mixture, but the reason I focused this on Britishness is because it it started with Brits Right.

[00:33:58]>> of West African uh heritage, right? So, uh does that answer your question?

[00:34:03]>> Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I think it's it's an interes- interesting debate. I think the whole discourse around the diaspora right now is very interesting, especially with the FBAs, the Africans, Caribbeans, um I I watched one video um by this guy, I can't remember his name, but he said that all black people were not a monolith, basically.

[00:34:27]Um so, I agree.

[00:34:30]>> this universal identity of blackness I I I don't know if I agree with it.

[00:34:39]However, I am a pan-African. So you are a pan-Africanist, okay. I I well, I was raised that way. However, at the same time, I don't have this idea that all black people are the same.

[00:34:54]We're all different.

[00:34:57]We all have uniquely different um uh identities and histories. Even Even the ones that are from the continent.

[00:35:06]The continent like for me, I'm from Ghana, but I'm from three different tribes in Ghana. Do you understand? I'm not from one singular tribe.

[00:35:15]So >> a question.

[00:35:17]Yeah. I don't I don't want to talk for too much though. So I will I No, it's fine. Before you ask that question, ask how did you Did you ever hear about how your family responded to that or what Like what was that like the cross cross-tribal relations? So in Ghana is different.

[00:35:35]Like I'm not going to say it's perfect because I would say in the 70s, 60s, maybe with the 80s, when you're crossing tribes, there was a lot of I don't know.

[00:35:51]Especially for So I'm a Ewe and if anybody knows anything about Ewes, there's a a superstition that well, we do we there we do voodoo basically. So in in Togo, in Benin as well, but our tribe do voodoo. So a lot of Ghanaian tribes don't want to They would say things about Ewe people.

[00:36:15]Do you understand? There was a My mom had a lot of comment Well, my grandma had a lot of comments about marrying a a Togolese man.

[00:36:22]Um so but it's never >> voodoo.

[00:36:25]Pardon?

[00:36:27]Cuz they're voodoo.

[00:36:28]Yeah.

[00:36:30]Do you Do you Do you Do you do that?

[00:36:33]>> No.

[00:36:34]>> [laughter] >> My granddad did that. I >> Cuz I lie, you know, I was quite like I swear I died, you know.

[00:36:40]>> to say, bro.

[00:36:42]>> [laughter] >> I was going to I swear that I said that.

[00:36:48]I I I've never even seen it. I'll I'll be honest, I'm too scared for it. I'm very scared of it.

[00:36:53]>> [laughter] >> No, I had someone on here, yeah. He come through, yeah. Someone in the chat just thought it in their spirit. They were like, "Is this man a warlock?" I said, "Huh? Why are you asking that?" I asked the dude. I said, "Are you Are you a warlock?" He said, uh He was He was in Uganda. He said his Bantu. He said, "Uh what what's that? What do you mean?" I said, "Do you do witchcraft?" Like I'll be like, "Do you do" He was like, "Uh I said He said, "Uh well, um you know, I believe that people who who pray are evil." No.

[00:37:29]>> "Huh?" I said, "I have to I have to drop you."

[00:37:32]>> [laughter] >> He made me laugh, generally speaking, but when it got to that, I said, "No.

[00:37:38]No. No. I don't do I'm I'm a Christian, so I don't uh My family is a Christian, so we don't do that, but it's it's part of uh heritage, I guess.

[00:37:49]Um but in Ghana, I'll tell you the truth, there is You're going You're not going to find uh well, I'm from I'm a Ghanaian as well. So, Ghanaian people are from Accra.

[00:38:00]If you're living in Accra, you're going to find people that are mixed with different tribes. And you know, even I I I'm I'm sorry, I'm talking for too long, but I wanted to touch on something you said, yeah, which you could use back on anybody, Nigerians, Ghanaians, if you want. When they talk about Nigerian Pidgin, Nigerian Pidgin does not come from Nigeria. Ghanaian Pidgin doesn't come from Ghana, either.

[00:38:29]Pidgin comes from Sierra Leone people.

[00:38:32]There's a language called Krio, and those people, um, were the, um, Wow. They lived by the coast, and they would They came to Ghana, and then they came to Nigeria, and they taught, um, Ghanaians, and I think >> how to speak Pidgin, because that was the language that was closest to English at the time. And during that time, the colonialists spoke English.

[00:38:57]So, it was the Pidgin is a trans >> But, is there I'm going to have to look into that.

[00:39:02]>> Yeah, look into that, please.

[00:39:03]>> reason that's The reason that's fascinating is because if it's true, the reason that would be extremely fascinating is the fact that, um, people that were freed from the islands, right, uh, under under British rule, the West Indies, during the slave trade, in Jamaica and other places, people that were officially free, Mhm. went there to Sierra Leone and colonized. Yeah. No, colonize >> And this this They set up their own thing, and a lady came on who, uh, is of of Sierra Leonean, uh, background a few weeks back, Mhm. and she said, "Yes, so we call that Krio." So, the people that came from the Caribbean here, we call them Krios. So, she said she's half half Krio or quarter Krio or something like that. So, the fact that if if what you're saying is true, the fact that this so-called Pidgin has actually come from there, Yeah. would be extremely fascinating, >> research that up, because like, we're all connected in a way, like, even like, so, I'll tell you a bit about Accra.

[00:40:06]Accra was, um, colonized, uh, by many people, not just by the British. And so, when you >> Okay. Okay. When you go >> Sorry, Krio and Krio and Krio are not the same. Was she saying Creole and not Creole? Yeah, Creole. Sorry, not Creole, Creole. Yeah. Creole, okay. My bad, I misheard her. Okay, cool. Um in Accra, um you'll find a lot of people that don't have that have have Western-sounding surnames. So, you'll find like Mills or um uh I don't know. Uh I don't know, Georgeson or just different-sounding surnames. De Silva, um like because different people came to Accra during that time and settled. So, you'll find like very When I went there recently, I would I was a in a place called Osu.

[00:41:07]There was a lot of um light-skinned people around and I was confused. I was just like, "I know Ga people aren't light-skinned." But, and they will have different surnames. And that's because like Brazilians, uh Dutch, Portuguese, different types of people settled on that coastline and stayed and then had children. And >> [clears throat] >> so, when we're talking about backgrounds, like even as a Ga person myself, I don't know my full like geneal- genealogy and everything.

[00:41:38]But, I could have different I could just be purely from West Africa. But, I could have I could be from South America, as well. I could be from these places. So, I acknowledge that. Um and today, our language is showing that. So, if you look at the Ga languages, there's Portuguese words in there. If you look at the Twi language, there's some foreign words in there because it all gets changed over time. But, nobody's fully from anywhere. That's why I don't agree with someone saying, "Well, you're still African." Well, we don't know that. Do you understand? And you know, we all have to What makes us great as a Pan-African nation or a society or whatever you want to call it, diaspora, is that we have differences. When I go to Ghana, not one culture is the same.

[00:42:28]So, how can one continent be the same? How can one people be the same?

[00:42:33]>> I I agree with that. I completely agree >> So, I I will stop talking now. I I think I've talked enough and yeah, I'll let someone else. One thing I don't I don't get is like whenever there's like West African they'll they'll try they'll be >> Um ask Flav, stick around unless you have to drop, okay? But I know it like stick stick around unless you have to drop just in case someone needs to respond to you. Um guys, let's get this to 120,000 by the time the next person finishes speaking, okay? So, uh let me bring in Theo Gonzalez. Thank you, D Hill. I appreciate you. Uh your ethnic background and where you're based, please. Sure. Good morning. Uh my name's Theo. Um 33. Ethnically Tanzanian.

[00:43:18]Uh based outside of London in Slough.

[00:43:23]Okay, cool. Go ahead.

[00:43:25]Um so, I think you and Az pretty much have the same idea I have, which is exactly the same thing, which is in terms of my real world experience um growing up, similarly, uh not quite to the extent of bullying or any such thing.

[00:43:41]Um but there was quite a divide between um Caribbeans and Africans growing up.

[00:43:47]So, I grew up in the late '90s and early 2000s.

[00:43:51]Mhm.

[00:43:53]But not not me personally, but in terms of other people, yes, they did have that. And I do think certain people have harbored that feeling going forward, which is why you do still get that sort of divide. And then where you do get certain people going, "Oh, now it's my turn." When it's Yeah.

[00:44:11]If you understand how this country has been built and how it is, um not only that, but internationally, um what role Caribbean people have played, it's why certain people before rather than wanting to identify as African, they did want to identify to as Jamaican, as Caribbean, um which is just a true fact. As most people have said, but I do completely agree in terms of my real-world experience, uh the relationship I have, particularly where I live in terms of I live in Slough. Um just growing up, uh growing up originally, it was sort of me being Tanzanian. Uh most of my friends are Caribbean to begin with. Uh it was only later on in school that we then started getting people from Ghana, people from Nigeria. Then even later then we started getting like Somalis and other different people.

[00:45:05]Um but in terms of influence, it's always been Caribbean people. Uh but I do understand the sentiment of certain people um having the idea of uh that we were bullied and had harboring that, which I don't think is uh anything to do with what Caribbean people have actually done to them. It's more of not trying to get over uh the sort of thing that's happened previously.

[00:45:32]Yeah, but I think Caribbean people are a lot more open to learning about African people, which is now how is the world has actually evolved in that sense, whereby um especially I Again, I don't want to put but especially with West Africa, me being East African, we sort of have a different relationship to Caribbean people, whereby we sort of sort of interchange and mingle a little bit more. And what did you say your ethnic was again, sorry, Theo? Uh Tanzanian.

[00:46:06]Tanzanian. Yes, he's African. Yeah. So, even when Ads was mentioning in terms of colonization and different nations coming in, my name is uh surname is Gonzalez, which is from like uh Portuguese background.

[00:46:21]Mhm.

[00:46:21]But, I was I'm sort of second generation uh British in terms of what you'd call second generation British. Um as in my mom was born here.

[00:46:32]Uh and then I'd be second generation.

[00:46:34]But, we still have that identity of being Tanzanian, which is the same as most Caribbean people. Um Mhm.

[00:46:41]And in terms of the whole um thing of what pan-Africanism, um I agree with Ads. Um even in terms of the continent as a whole, we are different type of people. Uh with different cultures, um and it's not of one being better than the other, but there are certain ones that have contributed more. Uh especially as culture, and I think me even being me myself, I would say especially Jamaican people as a whole, um the culture has contributed more, which is why I don't know um about it being erased.

[00:47:17]Um I wouldn't agree about it being erased because I do think it is prevalent, and I think it continues to do so. Um Okay. Uh so, um thank you. Um so, as far as the premise goes, it's not like is it erased? It's more like is is it being used in an attempt to erase? Do you see what I'm saying?

[00:47:39]So, So, like are people are people using this term in an attempt to erase Caribbean heritage identity. So, for example, there's there's a doc, I don't know if you were here before.

[00:47:51]So, Nigerian guy that's made a documentary saying this is black British culture, and then he just talks about Caribbean heritage stuff. And then says with West African influences and then doesn't say what the West African influences are or when I respond to the [ __ ] I'm seeing and I address the West African communities I've been speaking to specifically, then it's like, "No, we're all black British. Like this is anti-African. Like I'm I'm referring to it as uh the question is is it being weaponized essentially in an attempt to erase uh Caribbean heritage by identity and and and and blend everything together so it's not even uh an argument when I'm responding to the kind of stuff I'm responding to.

[00:48:33]That's that's essentially the gist of the question.

[00:48:37]I'm sorry. I'm about to drop.

[00:48:40]Okay, Benjamin.

[00:48:42]Yeah. I just noticed I have these numbers. It's like two 234 stars.

[00:48:47]234 stars. What is that?

[00:48:51]Uh I I think that was a I think they gifted you. I think that was a gift.

[00:48:56]Do they turn into money?

[00:48:58]I think so.

[00:49:00]Well, I'm broke. That's helpful. Well, it was my first time on your live, so That was nice.

[00:49:06]>> pennies or some [ __ ] >> [laughter] >> Yeah. How how often do you go live?

[00:49:11]Every week. So every Saturday between 11:00 and 12:00 at night GMT, so UK time. Okay. Okay. Okay.

[00:49:21]Uh Bye. It's cool. You can all speak, please.

[00:49:24]Doesn't sound right when I say it.

[00:49:26]>> Could you just say you're the governor just one time? One time.

[00:49:30]Say what?

[00:49:31]You're the governor.

[00:49:33]Ah!

[00:49:34]I'm not a Londoner. My accent won't sound the same.

[00:49:37]>> One time. Just one time. Just one time.

[00:49:40]Saying Saying someone's the governor?

[00:49:43]No, isn't that like an expression where you're like, "You're the governor." or something?

[00:49:47]That line That's that caught me [ __ ] I'm not a Londoner. I don't I don't speak that way, so it won't sound good.

[00:49:52]Like, "Oh, god, no." It won't sound good when I do it. It legit It really won't.

[00:49:58]Damn it. You need a You need a Londoner to say that [ __ ] for real.

[00:50:02]>> [laughter] >> Can I ask how old you are?

[00:50:06]No, Benjamin, go to bed. Whatever. Okay, I got to go.

[00:50:12]>> Bye.

[00:50:13]You have a good sleep. Okay.

[00:50:16]All right. Um Uh see you later.

[00:50:20]Go [laughter] ahead. Sorry. Okay, you go go go ahead then. Okay.

[00:50:24]Um yeah, so I mean, in terms of that, I think it is weaponized by certain people, especially of late. Um Yeah. But in terms of how it is, I think it's more prevalent on maybe on social media rather than in real life.

[00:50:39]Um because as I say, in terms of how Britain itself has been built, um the Caribbean influence is just far too great for it to be erased.

[00:50:52]Yes, people are trying to make an attempt, especially in terms of social media, especially as you've mentioned, in terms of those kind of docs.

[00:51:00]But in terms of real world as a fact, it's not it's not possible.

[00:51:08]I just like To be honest, I just like the honesty I'm hearing today.

[00:51:14]I have that one one or two people say some stupid [ __ ] but generally speaking, the majority have been really good.

[00:51:20]Just acknowledging the truth. That's all I ever ask, you know. Can we just be honest? You lot have been great today. What Wait.

[00:51:29]Uh Tanzanian and then someone who's gone gone Ask Ask Squabs, are you Ghanaian?

[00:51:34]Or No. He's Ghanaian. He's Ghanaian.

[00:51:37]>> or or Togolese? Yeah, yeah, but got Oh, what? Yeah, I'm a Ghanaian. Ghanaian and Togolese.

[00:51:44]>> Yes, I'm Ghanaian and Togolese.

[00:51:47]Okay. Okay.

[00:51:49]Yeah, I don't know about that.

[00:51:52]Well, Cole, you can I can I say something? I came up with the original name.

[00:51:56]But, you're saying I'm a fake Guardian.

[00:51:57]Why?

[00:51:59]Because you're speaking nonsense, bro.

[00:52:01]>> Everyone stop I said it at the beginning for those of you that are new to the panel right now. I said if everyone starts talking off me, I have a lot the whole panel off and we have to start again. Long. Don't want to have to do it. So, I should only have to say hold on or do this one time.

[00:52:17]Question for and I'll let you respond in a separate order. Timeless, what was your background again?

[00:52:23]Oh, East African. I'm Ugandan, Rwandan.

[00:52:27]Ugandan. Okay, so two East African countries. Okay, I'm not surprised about that actually. Yeah, Ugandan and Rwandan. Yeah, East African people generally speaking have have been I haven't had any problems.

[00:52:38]So, okay, cool. Uh but, Ads Quabs, I think you're you're the the only one today who's been kind of solid throughout while acknowledging reality. So, I like that. Thank you. Um okay, cool. So, uh before I go to Rainwater, it's Man Like and then it's Rainwater. And stick around, Ads Quabs, because I think Rainwater wants to respond to you specifically. So, I'm going to let Man Like go first and then it will be Rainwater. So, um first of all, guys, let's get this to 120,000 likes by the time um Man Like is done and let's get the shares up as well and send me pretty things. I like pretty things. And then, cool. Uh we'll go to Rainwater after. So, go ahead, Man Like, what's your ethnic background and where are you based? Good morning, Cole. Um I'm I'm a Nigerian man.

[00:53:31]Mhm. Okay.

[00:53:33]>> you based? Um I'm based in West London.

[00:53:36]Okay, cool. Lovely. Go ahead. Okay.

[00:53:38]Interesting conversation, but I think we're still I think when we come to conversations relating to Africans, we tend to always look at the other side and completely missed the point. When you look at this, you're talking about cultures and tradition. And when you look at what culture and tradition is what actually is quite it makes a people who they are.

[00:54:01]And when you look at the issue of Nigeria now, Nigeria is a country of over 300 million people with over 500 tribes of people.

[00:54:13]And when I look at culture and tradition, it's something that me, my forefathers, the people that come after me, they have to project. It's their way of life.

[00:54:25]They don't have to subcontract that to anyone to do for them.

[00:54:30]And when you look at the world today, the world today is about economic growth and development.

[00:54:35]And these are things the world today we are not own or we as a group of people.

[00:54:42]And what the group of people do with that is what makes them influential in the world today or makes them a nobody.

[00:54:50]And I've I've been listening, I've been hearing a lot of complaints about Nigerians. I think um I'm the kind of person that I like to study and understand and see what I can see from every bad situation. And I think Nigerians should be a case study for other people to look at how they are able to integrate, project their culture, and work towards economic growth mostly when they're in diaspora.

[00:55:20]Um and I don't think anybody is trying to erase anybody's culture and or anything. We have other people living in Western countries.

[00:55:31]And some have kept their culture, some have removed, you know, allowed their culture to just um slip away either not from intermarrying or simply not really abiding by their cultures and tradition.

[00:55:47]As a Nigerian Igbo man here, I go to my cultural days, where we have cultural days where my kids get to see what the Igbo culture entails and they understand that.

[00:56:00]And as an Igbo man, we're being seen more of economically Sorry, just a second, man. Like, I I J N your that name I J N W K uh I need you to clarify.

[00:56:14]Cuz who who's that for? Who? What are you doing to keep your culture Who Who?

[00:56:20]Who? Who's that for?

[00:56:23]I'll give you a moment to tell me who that's for.

[00:56:27]Just a second, man. Like, I will I will platform you. Who Who is that for?

[00:56:40]Uh I J N W K, who's that for?

[00:56:48]That is with regards to the question asked What as far as Caribbean people So, you're saying Caribbean heritage people aren't maintaining their culture with every I'm blocking you.

[00:56:59]I've been so I've been so um I've been really good today and I found I found myself warm.

[00:57:09]I found myself getting warm and then I almost went somewhere that I haven't had to go this whole night and it's too late for me to go there because I've been here for too long. So, I'm going to keep my calm because we've had a very good time. Uh go ahead, man. Like, So, what I'm saying in essence that I think people need to do more to project their cultures and their tradition. And when you say Caribbean is a blanket word.

[00:57:33]Um there's St. Vincent, there's Jamaica, there's there are Bajans. So, how do these different countries but when you come to even when you look at people like Somalis, they're in Africa but somehow they've created a global kind of identity for themselves.

[00:57:52]So, I So, I think when we when we break these things down, I think people need to do more. Like if I go to um a culture wedding for my people now and I have little kids, they tend to see and they tend to have interest because of what they see.

[00:58:08]And if they're curious enough and interested enough, they might see things they like and they pick those things and they carry on with this this continuity of those things. And for me, it won't be left for me to say, "Oh, people are trying to whitewash my culture." You know, I go around. The other day I went to do a job. I went to this Indian guy and he just looked at me, "You're You're Nigerian. You're Igbo."

[00:58:35]without knowing who I am.

[00:58:38]Maybe my facial features and he now went to to tell me how he worked in Nigeria before we had the civil W A R which was the Biafra thing. And this guy was telling me more about myself than I even kind of um know. So, I think for me it's we need to look at more of how we're imbibing our culture and tradition in our children than trying to put the blame on anybody uh of you know, not um trying to whitewash their culture cuz it's my culture, it's my tradition. It's for me to sell it out to the world. I travel Europe sometimes by road. I can be in Germany tomorrow in their beer festival dressed as a German and drinking beer. I think we need to see we shouldn't be gatekeeping our culture. Cultures are things and are things people can dabble into, celebrate with you. Uh uh we we tend to weaponize these things and this is why we have problems as black people all over the world.

[00:59:37]I was in Bulgaria the other time. I saw a lot of Turks in Bulgaria and I asked the question, why do you have people that look like they're locals, but they're Turks. They behave like Turks, they dress like Turks, they speak the language with mixed with the Bulgarian language. I was now told the Turks occupied them for 500 years during the Ottoman Empire.

[00:59:59]So, you still have indigenously looking Turks, people that still maintain their culture. So, whatever you think that think it is your culture it is your duty to imbibe yourself in your in your culture, immerse yourself in it. But, I don't know, we have like places like America where the Irish, the Italians, the you know, the Brits, everyone went in there and created this new America. I don't see them fighting about who is the Italian or but when you speak to an average European in America, they'll tell you, "Oh, my parents were Italian from Sicily." Or my parents I think we we tend to spend so much time weaponizing these cultural things. I like me, if I dress with my cultural attire, you'll be curious, "Oh, where are you from?" But, I don't see people that talking about these cultural things representing that or doing more about that. I'm not saying they're not, but I think they need to do more. I don't think it's to blame anybody about whitewashing your culture or diluting your culture. If you don't if I don't sell my book >> It's not about whitewashing. No, no.

[01:01:04]>> [clears throat] >> No, because >> whitewashing.

[01:01:07]>> no, no. Because you're saying in the topic I'm I'm trying to I'm trying to look at this British black culture, you know.

[01:01:14]This is what I'm trying to look at really.

[01:01:16]>> We're not We're not talking about whitewashing.

[01:01:20]So, to be to be clear, we're talking about >> in racing identity, Caribbean identity.

[01:01:25]You're This is what you're talking >> at the hands of people who are of West African backgrounds in Britain. I I For me, like I said, West Africa itself, they the West Africans I know, they If it's a Ghanaian, I will say Ghanaian man in his kente, his traditional Ghanaian wear, and I know he's Ghanaian. I don't think there's anyone trying to, you know, our movies are You talked about movies here as well. Our movies have always been done by Europeans. But Nigerians are now changing that thing by There's more Nigerian movies in Netflix, if you if you have a look. How how long have you been here on the live today?

[01:02:02]>> I I have I have been I even I was even here last time when you discussed the same things couple of Sundays ago. But I I think sometimes when we discuss this thing, we need to think a bit deeper and see what we're not doing.

[01:02:14]>> on today? How long have you been on today?

[01:02:16]>> I I've been listening for you for a long time. I went to go about the movie, the Nigerian guy trying to pretend to be When when white people do these things?

[01:02:24]>> you heard all of that.

[01:02:25]>> We don't have problems with these things, but when black people do it, we tend to I think we should be talking about more of unity and see how we can work together, really. I don't think this is a battle. Thank you.

[01:02:35]>> You're doing the thing. You're doing the thing. That's the thing. That's the thing.

[01:02:39]You're doing that thing.

[01:02:42]It's a problem when anyone does it.

[01:02:45]Anyone that mocks Caribbean people of any background in Britain or Jamaican people here, it's a problem.

[01:02:55]Just in general.

[01:02:57]And people have come on and say, "Oh, Kwahi, well you won't say this to white people." Listen, when white people and Asians have tried to come up on this live to even have a conversation about this topic, which is for diaspora people, I say, "No, I'm sorry. You can't You can't contribute to this cuz it's just not to do with you."

[01:03:16]When it comes to people like M Dollar or whatever the hell his name is, the ginger English dude that pretended to be Jamaican and ended up on the Drewski show in America and learned Jamaican patois and then lied and said he was from Kingston and all that weird [ __ ] I was very infuriated by it. It was pathetic and not enough people were vocal about how stupid it was. And people backed him so much that he sat in front of a Jamaican heritage British woman and told her that he is more Jamaican than her because he goes to Jamaica more frequently, right?

[01:03:51]As a white Englishman.

[01:03:54]I don't like anyone cosplaying. I don't like anyone disrespecting our communities. And the thing is this, what I find is that it's like, "No, no, no, only look at when the whites do. Only look at when the Asians do." I look at it when they do it and I look at it when West African people do it, too. I look at it when anyone does it. And when anyone does it, I have a problem. Now, the reason this conversation has been about West African heritage people specifically is because they were the most vocal in these conversations and they in fact inspired the initial lies that led to what we're doing right now because they were just too vocal. Way too vocal. And feel they got a pass cuz they know Caribbean people or they've got Jamaican friends and all the rest of it. We're we're all black. So, I can just violate you as much as you want cuz we're we're all black, remember? Don't forget that. Uh uh, listen. I don't care if we have the same skin color.

[01:04:50]Irrelevant to me because we're not the same people. And when people use skin color as a weapon, it leads to people getting violated in a way that then just gets brushed under the rug like it's not happening and then people start looking stupid. I don't allow anyone to disrespect or violate my community to my face ever. So, why I respond to it and no one who's brown gets a pass because they're brown. So, this isn't a oh, well, you only do it with West Africans over what I do. With anyone that has an issue with my community. It's as simple as that. So, anyone that has been vocal and speaking down on my community and unfortunately, these conversations we've been having, what led to these conversations in the first place? Nigerian and Ghanaian's.

[01:05:39]For the majority. So, Nigerians number one and then Ghanaian's and then other West African backgrounds and so I have to respond to that because now I'm just seeing it and it's too much. I was already seeing it in my feed all the time and people sharing [ __ ] with me and I'm I'm seeing it. We've got movies.

[01:05:56]Yeah, you mentioned your fake friend.

[01:05:58]I'm seeing stuff, but I said, you know, that's just whatever. They're They're just being stupid and annoying and I cannot be bothered to respond to something like that until I went into a space that I thought was for my own community and it wasn't. The people of my community. It was people who were Nigerian and Ghanaian that was saying the stuff I was hearing them say that was disparaging about my community and I said, oh, it's actually gotten to this point now. Now we're just putting Jamaican flags on things and pretending that we can just say what we want. Now I have to talk. And when I did talk, people didn't like it. I got called anti-African or this is just This is just racism. I can't say the full word.

[01:06:36]Oh, you just have a problem with Why don't you talk to anyone else about about what they do? I am not ignoring West African people just because their skin is brown. No.

[01:06:49]Anyone is getting it who tries it and speaks on my community. That's it. I I I will talk on anyone cuz I'm not even though I was once a Pan-Africanist, I don't believe that it should be used in a way that means I'm fighting with one hand behind my back, and people who believe they are literally the the essence of of uh being human can say and do what they want and what they please, and make disparaging remarks, and be angry, and hold resentments, and disrespect my community with the hope of me turning around and saying, "Well, no, you guys are divisional. You And we come from you, so I'll just let you No.

[01:07:32]No.

[01:07:33]Not doing it. So, ev- everyone, I'm not I'm not biased.

[01:07:38]But, in this case, all the people who have spoken with me have been from West African backgrounds, so that's what I'm responding to.

[01:07:45]>> minute.

[01:07:46]Yeah. Well, Colly, like I said, we can do more by let's say look at Toto Bay.

[01:07:51]Toto Bay is supposed to be a Caribbean restaurant. Who owns it? He's No, he's just saying anything. I must Can you mute, please? So, for me, I think more needs to be done in in your culture.

[01:08:04]Let's Let's look at the spices, the Jamaican spices.

[01:08:07]>> to say in response to that man like um man like >> I I Let Let Let Let me Let me round up.

[01:08:13]1 minute.

[01:08:13]>> Man like man Man Man like Mickey. Let me Let me round up.

[01:08:17]>> Man like Mickey, that's your name.

[01:08:19]>> When When I go to a Nigerian restaurant, it's a whole lot of >> Hold on. I'll go. I'll go.

[01:08:24]>> Your name is man like My name is Michael. It's just a nickname, like everyone does on TikTok.

[01:08:31]But, like man like Like Mickey.

[01:08:35]>> Man, that's how That's how Caribbeans in Britain talk, anyway. Um here's my thing. I saw a restaurant that was being advertised on Instagram recently.

[01:08:45]It was advertised as an Afro-Caribbean restaurant.

[01:08:49]When I went on, in pure excitement, to onto Instagram just check this place out, watch the videos, all that [ __ ] All they served was Nigerian cuisine and one Caribbean dish that looked dry and disgusting. Jerk >> But 95% 97% of the cuisine was Nigerian. So, you know what happened? I responded as did many other Caribbean heritage people as a whole.

[01:09:20]And I said, "Why are you calling the restaurant Caribbean Afro-Caribbean if your food is Nigerian? Why?"

[01:09:27]Well, if you have a problem, you should open your own restaurant. I said, "First of all, like I know where to find my community's restaurants, but the fact is you you've lied and you've branded this thing Caribbean knowing that many people that aren't of our background wouldn't know at all the difference cuz they've never experienced it before and you're all Nigerians and you promoted your business as a Caribbean food restaurant."

[01:09:56]So, then you talk to me about Turtle Bay, Turtle Bay, that ridiculous franchise. And what is that? A bar and it's supposed to be Caribbean? Yeah, it's [ __ ] Like flipping out. Yeah, I I think I went I went in there one time for the bar. I didn't realize it was like food and [ __ ] cuz when I went it was late at night and they weren't serving any food.

[01:10:16]But my thing is there are people that are of West African backgrounds that have opened up places and called it Caribbean and served their own cuisine. That's very sinister to me cuz what made you do that specifically? Why not serve Caribbean food? Even though they they wouldn't be able to make it, but at the very least try and make it Caribbean food. But no, it was branded as a Caribbean restaurant serving Nigerian food. That is weird. Why? Why would someone do that?

[01:10:54]In fact, why I mad when Caribbean people said, "What are you doing? Why are you doing this?" Why get angry with that? We shouldn't have said anything cuz they're West African. It's disrespectful. We must pay homage to the West African people, even if they want to do that. In fact, maybe our food's just theirs anyway.

[01:11:10]Is Is it Is it something like that? I mean, why serve Nigerian food if it's a Caribbean restaurant?

[01:11:20]Guys, Kway, Kway, you were here when Rain Water called the other brother down there a fake Ghanaian. That's why he says he's a Ghanaian. I think we we as a as black people we bite we we immerse ourselves so much in this banter back and forth. Why would a Ghanaian say a a fellow Ghanaian is a fake one?

[01:11:39]Uh for me, a solution I'll give you solution now. He said he was a fake Ghanaian. Rain Water called the brother down there a fake Ghanaian. You were here. You heard it.

[01:11:48]As Rain Wa- What's he calling that?

[01:11:50]Well, saying some stupid things about my tribe and all that.

[01:11:54]I don't know where he came You see where the problem is? You see the where the problem is?

[01:11:58]How can you say a fellow Ghanaian is fake? Hold on.

[01:12:02]The way I see that Hold on.

[01:12:04]The way I see that is that's that's an issue. Hold on. I Hold on. I see that as an issue between Ghanaian people. It's nothing to do with my community. It's no. Like what?

[01:12:17]Why are you asking me?

[01:12:21]He's been rambling for ages, man.

[01:12:24]Yeah. Jay told me Did you want to hear it before like um James told me you wanted to hear something derogatory. No, I forgot what I was going to say cuz he just said anything like what's funny.

[01:12:37]I'm being serious. I think Jamaicans and Caribbeans need to talk more about themselves, culture, and traditions and stop blaming people. Let me speak. Can I say something little?

[01:12:46]Stop everyone stop. So, man like that's what you were trying to say. I had a feeling that's why I was turning up my face for most of the time that you were speaking, but we got there in the end, didn't we? So, your view is Jamaicans and Caribbean people need to do more to preserve their culture instead of getting upset with West African people that try to deny them of a culture.

[01:13:09]That's your argument.

[01:13:11]I say I'm not denying anybody their culture. It's not my position to do that. I say to that that we have culture and we have a culture that we're very proud of and ironically it's the same culture that people cross play and then want to turn around and say, "You're African, you're from us and you don't have one." That's the joke. Ain't that fascinating? Right, let me bring in the next person. So, let me bring in James.

[01:13:41]James Dunbar, go ahead. What's your ethnic background and where are you based?

[01:13:45]>> I am I'm What about Rainbow? I saw they had like some beef going on. Uh Warren Warren replica?

[01:13:53]I just want you to know that it's it's not it doesn't go without saying that you wake up in the morning and every time you look in the mirror you feel a slight form of depression which then leads you to go around to pretty girls' lives, do that thing in the dark that you shouldn't probably do cuz you could just go on certain sites, right, to look for it and then sexualize the people you're looking at so I'm talking about daggering. So, I want you to know that even though you can't find a woman that will give you the experience that you desire, it doesn't mean that I'm the person that will entertain you and your [ __ ] with that little thing that you're packing, okay? So, respectfully, I'm going to block you and have a lovely weekend. Find good site, great stuff, yeah?

[01:14:35]Okay, go ahead, James. You're next.

[01:14:39]Yeah, what's your ethnic background and where are you based? I'm I'm white and I'm in West London.

[01:14:45]And James, so again, this is I don't know if you've been here for long, but because this is about diaspora people and it's between uh African people and Caribbean people, I can't allow you to comment on this, okay? You're welcome to stay and watch, but I can't allow you to share your view because it would just be a violation. I'm here to listen and you know I'm I'm you know I I want Basically like the only reason why I'd say to give any comment James James James, again like I can't allow you to.

[01:15:16]So I'm I'm I'm being very kind. So again, this is literally as much as I understand you want to watch, that's fine, but this is for Caribbean heritage people and African heritage people because it's specifically about our relations with each other, okay? So you wouldn't be able to add to this, unfortunately, all right? So I'm going to drop you but thank you for joining.

[01:15:35]Okay, um Road, ethnic background and where you're based?

[01:15:40]Skipping me, though. I don't get it.

[01:15:42]Wait, who did I skip? Who did I skip?

[01:15:44]Rain. Rain, what times have you been saying Rain what times? Next one. I said go ahead, Rain. I thought Didn't you say someone was not going to I thought you'd already spoken. Go ahead. Ethnic background and where you're based? Hi guys, it's editing Coley here. Excuse my voice, I was coughing. For those of you that have been watching, you'll realize that this is actually the same Ghanaian gentleman >> [music] >> that was speaking very disparagingly of Jamaicans on a previous live. Africa's going to swallow the whole world eventually anyway. [music] Africanism is only caring about us. We don't give a I get what he's saying. I get You're irrelevant if you don't join us as Africans. Jamaicans are our people, especially Jamaica.

[01:16:26]My thing is listening. My thing is listening. It's usually It's It's It's usually It's usually the wider diaspora. Hold on. You're ain't nothing. You're ain't nothing. I am live on average between 12 to 17 hours every single time and speak [music] to a lot of people in the process. So, I didn't realize it was him or else he wouldn't have even been on the flipping live. But, what you will notice is that he has changed his tune >> [music] >> significantly compared to when he spoke last time.

[01:17:03]Let's get into it. I'm I'm from Ghana.

[01:17:06]And I'm I'm full I'm full Ewe tribe. I'm from the Ewe tribe.

[01:17:10]Okay.

[01:17:12]Where are you based?

[01:17:13]I'm based in Southeast London.

[01:17:16]Okay, go ahead.

[01:17:18]Right, so I I came to London [clears throat] in what, '97, right?

[01:17:22]Mhm. When I came to London London. it was um ma- majority Jamaicans, right? Cuz um you know, during the Windrush, Jamaicans were brought over here to do all the laboring works and stuff, right?

[01:17:37]So, Mhm. they had a solid base in in London or England before Africans started coming here.

[01:17:44]So, in in in school, for instance, like I had friends that were from Africa, but they would pretend to be Jamaican, right?

[01:17:53]>> Mhm. Then >> Mhm.

[01:17:55]like going to school, I realized why they were doing that cuz a lot of Africans were being picked on in school and stuff. Like, we were mocked for uh they would mock our accents, they mocked how, you know, we looked and stuff like that. So, like a lot of Africans felt like appropriating with Jamaica would get them girls or make them look cool and stuff, you see?

[01:18:18]So, then a lot of Africans yeah, did, you know, try to be Jamaican those those times, but to me, that's all natural like like those kind of things happen like naturally, like, you know?

[01:18:31]Cuz if you go somewhere and everyone's speaking like as like, for instance, everyone's speaking Ga in your area. You're going to want to be like like you want to speak Ga to also fit in.

[01:18:45]Right?

[01:18:46]It's not It's not coming from a disrespectful place like how it's it's like it's it's being portrayed. Like for instance, coming from Ghana, we were speaking Patois before we even came to England.

[01:19:01]I actually saw a video just 2 days ago from a Ghanaian guy on YouTube who he's still in Ghana and he I think he's like a producer, he does music over there.

[01:19:13]And he said that you guys had like um uh Jamaican Patois books. the usage of Patois which is from Jamaica that we Africans [music] mostly, especially Ghanaians, mostly use in our music. Back in the '90s, right?

[01:19:29]Before I left Ghana, we used to have this book that if you wanted to learn Patois, you could learn it. You go and actually study it. And a lot of Ghanaians were doing that.

[01:19:38]Because we're so fascinated, we're so gravitated towards like, you know, like Bob Marley, all these people, all these artists, Elephant Man, all these people coming from Jamaica, Yellowman and all that. So, the Ghanaian young aspiring artists wanted to actually learn how to use Patois in their music. We thought it was cool. [music] That was just That's just how we are as Ghanaians. We never love our own. We always want to learn something new and the person that knows how to, you [music] know, speak Patois better, we we we we uphold the person.

[01:20:02]We think that that person is the coolest ever. So, like learn Jamaican Patois in Ghana and then of course many people use that in their music over there like in the in the in Jamaican dancehall music but in Ghana. Yeah. That's what he said. Is that true? Yeah, that's very true cuz if we have we have we've always had this thing for Jamaica. I don't know why, but we Ghanaians have always had a thing for Jamaica. I don't know whether it's spiritual or whatever it is, but it's like we feel like you're you're one of us. I don't know. Like, we feel like you're We I don't know like how to explain it, but we we've always had this affinity towards Jamaica.

[01:20:40]Even compared to even America, the influence Jamaica had on us is way way way more than like um America black Americans.

[01:20:51]If you get what I'm [clears throat] trying to say. Cuz up to today, if you go to Ghana, there's a large Jamaican community there.

[01:20:58]And they live amongst themselves. Like, nobody's trying to, you know, change their their their culture or anything. But rather, we're even trying to promote it by even speaking patois, right? We're we're we're trying to It's To me, someone trying to speak your language is a sign of respect.

[01:21:21]That's how I see it.

[01:21:22]>> only only if that's not an attempt to erase. Like, if people are learning something, that's one thing. But if people are attempting to erase it or lie or cos play or pretend they're something that they're not or tell people your language is mine anything like that, then it's an issue. But if people just want to learn a language, then they can learn a language. It's It's not an issue. It's about Yeah. Collie, this what I I believe here. It's all a numbers game, right?

[01:21:47]When Jamaicans were majority in England, well, they established it. Like, black black culture in England is basically Jamaican culture. That has been That's evolved, right?

[01:22:02]Mhm.

[01:22:03]As time goes on, there's something called natural evolution. It's Eventually, since it's like you're you're not in Jamaica and you're in England, and um your population is not a lot compared to the African population, Yeah.

[01:22:23]the natural evolution is that it's going to become more Africanized.

[01:22:29]Even though he still has Jamaican background, he's going to Like let's say 20 years time.

[01:22:35]>> thing is my thing is uh we have a saying look at what time it is, right? Go Jamaican people and Caribbean heritage people, even though even though the numbers have shifted now and there [clears throat] are more people of African background than Caribbean heritage people in in the UK, the influence of the Caribbean heritage people is still so vast, right? That I'm again like the the were Asians outside of my house just last night shouting wagwan to each other, right? As we can Jamaican patois which they consider slang for them, right? And my thing is this as long as the respect is there, but to force to force the identity of my community over here into to bend the knee to Africaness is just not going to happen. It's not going to happen like my community are out here trying to claim everything West African or say Afrobeats is ours and like we're not doing that, but when it comes to like our thing over here then suddenly that's everyone's and I have a huge huge problem with it. That person previously isn't the first person to mention that wow, you know, African people are outnumbering you guys now and I'm hearing the [ __ ] and I'm like what's that? Like what are you saying? Because I generally like >> That's not evolution though, things It feels like it feels like you're saying it as like a haha and if you're saying it as a haha, well then I have to look and say oh, so what then are you What are you saying like it's it's it's your time and you you're going to steal, cosplay, pretend, take and then say that's everyone's and say it's our turn now. In fact, there is a guy that said that I'm going to post it.

[01:24:22]>> growing up