Stacey Vanek Smith

Added: 2026-06-01

[00:00:00]Okay, good morning Stacy and thanks again for joining us.

[00:00:04]Yes, thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

[00:00:09]Well, I think that if you want we can we can get started.

[00:00:14]So, yeah. So, what is the most useful is it just if I sort of uh inter talk about what job I have and how I got into this job because it was not what I ever expected. Okay. Um I so I'm um I'm a reporter at Bloomberg now. Um we're uh we'll be launching a podcast with Business Week magazine in about a month.

[00:00:37]Um I also am a reporter. I I file for marketplace on public radio which is public radio show and um I'm a contributor to business week and I've been covering business and economics for more than 15 years. Um but I do not have a background in business at all. like you guys will have more of a background than I did. I was like a literature major. I wanted to be I wanted to be an arts reporter. That's the job that I wanted. I wanted to like go review plays and art exhibits and stuff, but I really loved radio. Um, and it's hard to like at the time it was pre-podcast when I graduated. And so radio was just this tiny world. And so any job you could get in radio, you just took it. And so I got offered a job at marketplace working on the overnight sh on the graveyard shift um with uh the host of the morning show because like in in radio the shows with the most listeners are always the morning shows. but it means you have to work all night. So, it was it was actually a great opportunity, but but no one ever wants to do that job because those hours are terrible and they mess with you a lot. So, I but I took the job. I was thrilled. It was in LA. Uh and I would work from midnight to 8 a.m.

[00:02:00]And uh Kai Rzdoll, who's now the host of of Marketplace, was the morning host.

[00:02:05]And it was me and him and an engineer in the middle of the night. And I still remember this. You guys are going to laugh at me. Um, I had no business background. I had no interest in business. I thought it was like sort of basic and not interesting and like I loved like Shakespeare and like drama and all this stuff. So I started and the first day I was in the job it was like two in the morning. I was so exhausted.

[00:02:31]So the host comes in and it was my job to write up like he would say like, "Can you write something up on this news item?" and he would read it on the air.

[00:02:39]So, it was my job to write these little snippets. And so, he was like, "Oh, there's this company and it's there's an IPO. Can you write something up about the IPO?" And I was like, "Okay." And I turned around to my computer and I had no idea what any of those words meant.

[00:02:54]And I typed in ey poo. I was like, "IPO." And so then I was I was so tired though that I like didn't have much energy and like nothing was coming up.

[00:03:06]So I was like, "What? What is an IPO?"

[00:03:09]And I could see his face. He was just like, "Oh, no." Like this, "What? Who is this person that I'm counting on in the middle of the night?" And he was like, "It's an initial public offering." And I was like, "Oh, okay. Okay." I had no idea what that meant either. And like I turned around and I was like going to type it into to Google. And then I just was so tired. I turned around and I was like, "What's an initial public offering?" And he's like, "It's like when a company goes public." And I was like I just kept staring at him and I could see his face just the horror on his face and he was like it is when a company starts selling stock and I was like oh okay like that I did understand but I anyway but I really fell in love with business and economics because right as I was starting out the housing crisis happened the 2008 housing crisis happened and I was in California which was really hit so hard by it. And so all of a sudden it was like I was in the middle of all this like drama unfolding and and this huge crisis. It feels a little bit like like now, you know, it's like what's happening? The markets are crashing.

[00:04:20]What does this mean? How did this happen? Is this going to impact me? It was like all this this is a familiar feeling for me. Um and I really fell in love with it. I think business is like the most personal, most emotional topic for all of us. Like it has to do with our livelihoods. It has to do with the way we live our lives. It has to do with our security. Um I think it's often covered really badly in like really technical jargony ways that make it hard for pe people feel like they are excluded from it. They feel intimidated by it, like they don't understand it.

[00:04:55]which is why I think it's great that you're taking this class and like educating yourselves, which I did not do, about what all of this means. And I think it's, you know, it's a really important thing, especially in a moment like now. People are so scared. They have so many questions. Um, and being able to understand that is a huge, you know, I think it gives you a lot of power in a moment like this. Um, and so anyway, the reason that I I love doing this job is I think about that moment, the IPO moment a lot because it's like how do you boil some because it's my job to like explain what's happening in a way that anybody can understand it if they listen to it and I think about that moment a lot because you know when you get I've been covering this for 15 years so I know the jargon now and there's always this temptation to like kind of be like I know the jargon and use the jargon or you just forget that you didn't know what an IPO was. But I always try to remember that and like remember how to break things down to a place where everybody can understand it because this affects all of us. We're all a part of the economy. There's nobody who doesn't matter in our economy, who doesn't count. We're all contributors to the economy. It's the thing that binds us together at a moment when like a lot is not binding us together. Um, we all want the same thing. We want an economy that provides opportunity, where people can succeed, where we can work hard and get what we want. Like, how we get there, that we have very different opinions on, but we all want a strong economy, everybody.

[00:06:32]And we all want an economy where we can work hard and like make a life for ourselves and like live the life we want and be have security and be able to take chances and do work that fulfills us. We all want those things. Um and so I just think it's so important to have an understanding and to be in a class like this and so you can understand especially at a moment like now when I mean I have no idea what's going on.

[00:07:00]It's scary for me too. Um, but at least we have the foundations to be able to understand what's going on and to educate ourselves and to be able to navigate a moment like this. Um, anyway, but yeah, I'm happy to to to answer any questions you have or I can just I mean I can talk forever.

[00:07:21]But yeah, if there are questions or I can talk about tariffs or whatever is the most useful like whatever would be the most interesting and most useful. I think only because you have limited time with us. We for sure if you could give us uh you know your your what's going on with the tariffs right now. I think everybody wants to hear uh from you the expert right now. Um if you you know we we've covered uh we've covered it a little bit in class. We've talked about it so we have an understanding. So but just more like right now what what what you're what you what you're hearing what you're seeing and uh educate us with with your with your breath and depth.

[00:07:55]Well, that's very So, like why the world is on fire because of tariffs?

[00:08:01]Um, yeah, that's a good question. I mean, I think the reason the world is on fire because of tariffs is well, it's a little bit complicated, but it has a bunch of parts.

[00:08:15]So, at the end of World War II, all of the c like a bunch of countries in the world came together there. World War I and World War II were like not all that far apart. World War II was just devastating. Millions of people died, cities were destroyed. I mean, it was awful. And all these countries came together and they decided like in Western Europe and the US and everybody kind of got together and they were like, you know, let's make a bunch of trade alliances. We're going to have free trade and that way we can protect ourselves from war. Because they're like, if you've got a trading partnership with somebody, you're less likely to go to war with them. And basically at that point everyone was so devastated from war. People pe everyone had loss of people and loved ones and their cities and homes had been destroyed. Like inflation was horrible in some places. Uh it was terrible. So so trade was the answer. It was the anti-war. It was an alliance. And so I think part of what's shaking everyone so much is that it's that when tariffs come into place, when it's like we we're not friends, we're not like it's not that we're not friends anymore, but you know, it's like this is just a this is just business. It kind of takes us back to a place where that kind of glue, those sorts of alliances don't exist anymore. And it I think that emotionally is part of why the markets are falling because we've been in a time ever since the end of World War II in the ' 40s uh of trade. It's like more and more free trade, lots of exchange of goods. Everything became more global.

[00:09:52]Like you have something like an iPhone.

[00:09:54]It's got part I think it's like 33 different countries contribute to what goes into an iPhone. So, and it's all free and global and jobs move overseas and it's all very fluid and it's only gotten more and more and more fluid and all of a sudden we're moving kind of backwards. So, that is I think foundationally why everyone's so rattled. This is a huge change of direction uh from like policywise and just in our relationships with all these countries.

[00:10:25]It's like our relationships are forever changed. So that's a big part of it. And I think the markets, you know, the stock market, no one knows what to make of it and everybody's scared. So that's part of it. But then also just in a practical way, a tariff is just a tax, right? It's a tax on something that's coming in from another country. So if like I don't know, I this coffee that I'm drinking is um I don't I I think it's from Colombia.

[00:10:57]So, the tariff from Colombia is not that high. I think it's 10%. But still, um, that's not nothing. And if there's a 10% tariff on my coffee, that means that the company that buys my coffee and puts like and sells it to me, buys it from Columbia and sells it to me, is going to have to pay that tariff. And so, when they sell it to me, they're going to either have to make less money or pass the cost along. So, let's say it's been selling me this bag of coffee for $10, which it's it's more than $10, but we'll just say 10 to make it simple. And let's say now uh you know there's a 10% tariff, so it's like $11. So now the company has this choice. So like, okay, well, we can charge Stacy $11 for the coffee and then I start to be like, whoa, this is going up like $11. I, you know, a few years ago this was $7. Now it's 11. This is getting to be a lot. So now I'm like, well, maybe I'll just drink a little less coffee.

[00:12:00]Like, I won't drink coffee until 8:00 at night anymore, which I do now. I'm going to cut myself off at 2 p.m. So, I'm going to buy less coffee from them. This is the risk. So, the company has two choices. They can either pass the cost along to me or they can um eat the cost.

[00:12:16]So, if they pass the cost along to me, there's a risk. Maybe I'll be like $11, whatever. I love my coffee. I've got plenty of money. It's fine. But for a lot of people, like prices have been going up for a long time now. We're all pretty price sensitive, you know, like we're all pretty like I mean I I feel like everyone I know in most income levels, you know, you go to a coffee shop, you go to the grocery store, you go to the movies, and it's like, whoa, this feels like expensive. And it just changes how you act. So, you're like, I really love going I really love the coffee shop down the street from me. Um, they're great. I love them, but it it cost me $8 to get a coffee there now.

[00:13:00]So, I don't I get coffee there like every once in a while, but I used to get it every day. Um, and so if they if they raise the prices, there's a risk that people are going to buy less. I'm going to drink less coffee, buy less coffee.

[00:13:14]So then that company's making less money. If it's making less money, it can't expand as quickly and it can't hi give people raises and hire people and maybe it starts laying people off. So, the company's going to shrink. So, let's say it's like, okay, we don't want to do that. So, we're just going to eat the cost ourselves. We're going to keep charging Stacy $10 for her coffee and we're just going to eat that cost. Well, then the company's making less money.

[00:13:41]So, now it can't use that. You know, it's it has to scale back all of its expenses. So, it can't expand. It can't give people raises. It can't necessarily hire people. It has to fire people maybe. So, in any case, this is bad news for companies and it's bad news for consumers because even if my coffee is only $10, the fact is that the company that sold me the coffee isn't going to be expanding. It's going to be maybe paying its people less. That's going to affect the whole economy because the people it's paying less are then going to have less money to go to the movies, to go out to dinner, to do all the things that kind of make their own economy strong. And so it really ripples out everywhere and it's so direct. And the US, I always forget this because it's such a funny thing. The economy feels so technical and so complicated, but most of the economy, like twothirds of our economy is all of us buying stuff. That is it. That is by far the biggest force in our economy is they call it consumer spending, but it's us shopping. That is it. That is the loadbearing beam. It is the superpower of our economy. We shop a lot, but it's also the big one of the biggest parts of the whole world's economy. 16% of the global economy, like all the economies in the world, all added up, 16% of that is us buying stuff. Like the entire world depends on us shopping. And so if we start shopping less, even a little bit less, even being like, you know, I'm just going to go get a coffee like one day a week on a special occasion instead of five days a week, that if we do that, if we all start doing that, which we're probably going to have to do, I mean, it rattles everything. And so, you know, there are, you know, there are bad parts about the world that we're in, all the consumption that we do, all the shopping, all the buying. I think we all have seen consequences of that, but the consequences of a huge change, especially this fast, it's big. And everybody's losing their minds. And then our you know our import our biggest trading partner is is China. We almost a third of all the things that we import which is a lot of stuff because remember like we are shoppers first and foremost it's in our DNA. Most of what we import is from China.

[00:16:20]So our stuff from China is apparently going to get like 54% more expensive. I mean, that would be my coffee going from $10 to like 15. So, that's a big jump and that's going to have an even bigger effect. And if the company decides to eat that cost, that's really hard on it.

[00:16:39]And if it passes that cost along, that's really hard on me, which is eventually really hard on it. So, it it almost seems like there's no way out. I feel like I've been thinking ever since these tariffs got announced on on Wednesday, Liberation Day, I've been thinking like, well, what's a solution? How can they get around this? What's a way that it's not going to cause this like really bad ripple effect that's going to shrink the whole economy? And I can't think of a way, which is not to say there's not a way. There's always a way, but I just keep thinking of it and every time my mind's just going to like, this is really bad. This is going to be really bad. Um, and like the line out of the Trump administration is like, well, this is like temporary pain for ultimate gain. Um, I I don't think that's true. Um, I think taking our economy back in time is not going to grow our economy.

[00:17:40]Um, that's just like what what I think from from what I know, but I'm happy to talk more about that. Um, I would also like love to know what you guys want to know about. I mean, I can keep talking, but yeah, if there's something that would be questions that you have, especially about this moment or I don't know if like what is what is the most interesting to you because I can I can really just keep going, but I also want to make sure that this is like the most interesting and useful.

[00:18:11]Well, there's 32 questions, you know, this is your opportunity.

[00:18:20]I have a question. I can't quite hear.

[00:18:22]Oh, hello. Yes, you have to speak up.

[00:18:24]Really, really quick. The microphones are right here, so you got to kind of really speak up.

[00:18:30]I guess my biggest question is mentioning how you don't really see like a way out because it's either that businesses will keep the cost or they'll pass that cost along. So when it comes to like a big kind of like economic event like this where like the ratio having almost like tariffs especially at like high percentages how would like things would things ever turn back into like normaly in like the sense that like what our economy used to be before the tariffs or how would we see like our economy transform? Will the high prices just stay? Is like there any way that would revert or will everything just like get more costly like permanently?

[00:19:14]That's a really good question. I mean I think it depends on I mean could we go back? Yes. Yes. Um and in fact I did not expect the tariffs to be so high on Wednesday because um Trump and the Trump administration had gone back and forth so many times on the Canada Mexico tariffs. It was like we're going to have tariffs and everybody lost their minds and then it was like oh never mind. And if it's an never mind situation, will things get more expensive? Maybe a little bit because companies are rattled like they're worried. So they might be like, the coffee company might be like, "Okay, so whatever the the 20% tariff isn't in in place, so I don't have to charge $12 for my coffee, but maybe I'll charge 11 in case the tariffs go into like you see companies start to like protect themselves a little bit to they call like pricing in the uncertainty, but basically they're like, "Ooh, this is like a lot of drama and if he actually goes through with this, this could be bad. So, let's just give ourselves a little cushion. Um, so I think there is things would get a little bit more expensive, but I think you know if tomorrow Trump was like never mind that things would largely go back to normal.

[00:20:32]Um, as far as will things forever be more expensive, yeah, I think so. I mean, and the the worst part is I hate this. I hate to say this. I hate that this is a thing, but you don't want prices to go down. When prices go down in an economy, it is terrible. It's called deflation. And it sounds like as a person, like this sounds amazing. I want prices to go down. I want my coffee at my cafe to go back to being like $470, which is what it used to be until now. and how it's like almost $8. I want it to go back. But what happens is when prices start to decrease, people stop buying things because, you know, let's say there's like a shirt you want to buy and it's like a really nice shirt and it's a hundred bucks and then you go back to the store and you're like, I don't quite have a hundred bucks, but I love this shirt. So, you go to check on the shirt and now it's like marked down. It's 90 bucks. And you're like, okay, well, maybe I'm going to go get my 90 bucks together. And then you come back the following week and it's been marked down to $80. So then you're like, "Wait, I'm just going to wait. I'm not going to buy this shirt because And then you go back the next week and it's $70." And you're like, "I'm going to wait. I'm not buying anything." This is what happens when prices start to fall. Nobody buys anything. Everybody waits. That's why an economy like cools down and like seizes up. Whereas like inflation, as horrible as it is, is actually better. Which is like I hate saying this. I hate that this is true, but it is kind of true. So when prices are going up, if you go to see this shirt and you're like, I love this shirt, it's, you know, $90. This is a real stretch for me. And you go back the next week and it's $100, and you go back the next week and it's $110, you're like, well, if I don't buy it now, it's just going to get more expensive. So that makes consumers buy things. It causes bad cycles of its own, but it's better than prices falling. Um, sometimes economics, it's like the thing that is in your interest as a human being is like bad for the economy, and a thing that's good for the economy is like bad for you as a person. Um, I feel like the economy is like our frenemy.

[00:22:51]Like we need it. We're kind of like us.

[00:22:54]Like sometimes our interests align, but not always. We're like frenemies. Like like the friends in White Lotus. I don't know if you guys have been watching White Lotus, but the friends in White Lotus and their weird mean relationship where they kind of all want to see each other fail, that is like us and the economy.

[00:23:12]Thank you.

[00:23:15]So, how do you Oh, Kalia, did you uh Let me let me take a Zoom question. Kalia, go ahead. if you want to turn your camera on.

[00:23:28]Can you hear me? Yes. Oh, nice. Okay.

[00:23:32]So, I have uh three questions, but I'll ask one and I'll let somebody else ask a question as well. Um, so regarding the current job markets and economic shifts, what industries or roles do you think offer the most promising opportunities for recent grads, especially women trying to build power and stability?

[00:23:54]That is an excellent question.

[00:23:57]Um, I think I mean in one thing I'll say is in moments of instability there's always opportunity.

[00:24:06]you know in all the chaos when things are changing this fast there is there's always opportunity in there like things get disrupted it it can be very harmful but I think you all are in a good position and I know it might not feel like it but you have a lot of knowledge of like technology like your level of comfort with like technology that a lot of us are like less comfortable with things like especially AI but also like you know social media things like that like you're very tapped in to technology and the culture that is a huge advantage also you're very flexible like if someone is trying to get a new job and they are let's say 55 they are probably like going to want a really high salary and a lot of benefits and they're going to need a lot of training if it's a new job that requires new skills like you are the opposite of that and it's a huge leg up in a moment like now because you are more flexible. You have a lot of knowledge. You you're not like well I've been doing this one thing in this one way for like 20 years. Um and that's the position that like I'm in. So I'm like less flexible than someone who's coming in and it can be like I'm pretty open like I'd like to do a job like this but like what do you need? So it gives you a huge leg up. So I would say that any job that will will tr like any job which is going to appreciate that is a huge opportunity. Um as far as like what's going to be affected versus not I mean I don't know things are still settling down so much. Um, but women tend to work in the service sector a lot more than like making stuff than like you know manufacturing and things like that.

[00:26:09]Um, there may be manufacturing jobs that come up as a result of this, right? Like if all the imports are getting more expensive, it may help there be more US factories and things like that.

[00:26:21]Um, but I think I think this will probably be easier on the service sector. That's things like, you know, uh, hospitality. Um, I don't know, everything from like haircuts to like working in a restaurant to creating content. Like that's all the service economy. You're not like making a product. You're you're working with customers in some way. Um, I think that'll probably be less hard hit because you're not trying to import something. You know, you're not like, "Oh, I make, you know, whatever cell phones and I have to import my copper from China and there's, you know, there's no way that I cannot charge people for that." Instead, it's you can be a little more flexible. So I think jobs that emphasize that and like um one of the students uh who was I just was saying earlier that she was going into like entrepreneurship and like maybe in media and video and communications like something like that I think is really smart because you know that's a skill that a lot of people who are like mid-career don't have those skills like making video and things like that and that's something that those are skills that you probably have and aren't even aware necessarily that they're skills. s they're just part of like life. And so that's a huge leg up. I think you're in like a really good position there. Does that answer your question?

[00:27:46]Okay. Okay. Yes, it does.

[00:27:50]Um, so we had a couple more questions. I you okay on time, Stacy? Yeah. Yeah, I just got a text. I don't actually have to be off until uh I have 15 more minutes if that's useful. Okay, that's fantastic. Thank you. So, you were next.

[00:28:06]Hello, my name is Mag. Nice to meet you. I've just seen a video of Trump like he was talking about the other countries put tariffs on United States and for example the most one was like European Union that it was like more than 60%. So and Trump said that like these tariffs are very logical and very lower than the other countries tariffs.

[00:28:31]What's your idea about? Yes, this is the reciprocal tariff. by the like for example very different like very it has like different numbers for each country.

[00:28:41]Yes. Yeah. Oh my gosh. The chart the chart which with like the smallest font I've ever seen. I could not I was like there was a very funny SNL about the chart where he was like in countries in no particular order and I was like squinting at the chart and pausing the chart pulling up images of the chart. I was like I can't see this thing like why is this chart from like 1985?

[00:29:03]um reciprocal tariffs. Well, this is what Trump is saying, right? He's like, "We're not, you know, being aggressive.

[00:29:10]We are just like, you put tariffs on us, we put tariffs on you." Like, we're just being fair, right?

[00:29:17]Um there is some truth to this. That is true. It's a little It's interesting though because I mean, take like Vietnam. So a lot of really like economies that are way smaller than ours. I mean the US economy is the largest economy in the world. We like the most whatever wealthiest economy in the world almost by a factor of two. So China is the next biggest economy.

[00:29:42]They're almost they're like a little bit larger than half as big as us. Like we are enormously wealthy. We are enormously powerful in the economy.

[00:29:55]So, if you're Vietnam and you have a much much much smaller economy and you're still like parts of your economy are really developing, you're trying to like give your people a shot, you know, let's say like let's say we're talking about um socks or something, right? So, you've got like socks from the US, but they're like Puma socks, and it's a brand everybody knows, and Puma has a lot of money to advertise. But then you've got someone in Vietnam, like a local company making socks, and they don't have all of the money that Puma has to advertise.

[00:30:31]So, people don't know the brand, but they're trying to also sell their socks.

[00:30:34]And so, to help out that company, which isn't like this big powerful brand, it's a new little local company. you know, Vietnam might put tariffs on American socks to give its people a leg up. I mean, is that Vietnam like kicking sand into the face of America? Like, I would argue it's a it's a smaller economy which is trying to give its people a shot against the juggernaut that is the American economy and all these super powerful brands that have this advantage. Even if, let's say, the Puma socks are a little more expensive, if you're like in the market for socks in Vietnam, you're going to be like, "Oh, people will see this brand and they'll like know that I'm, you know, I can buy Puma socks." And there's like a cache there that, you know, Puma has spent millions and millions and millions of dollars making that their brand cool, and this new little company doesn't have that. like a lot of these countries aren't necessarily putting tariffs on the US because they're like, "Haha, like we're getting away with murder." It's like these are much smaller economies who are trying to grow and they're they're using tariffs to do that. Um, in some cases, you know, there are things that are slightly unfair, but like we're doing really well, you know?

[00:32:03]I mean, it's like it would be sort of, you know, it's sort of like what happens when, you know, let's say uh you've got like a a huge artist, right? Like let's say you've got like whatever Taylor Swift and she records a song and someone and then she and there's some little artist in whatever Canada who records a song and like maybe it see and she sues them and says like you took a lyric of mine and it's like is Taylor Swift right? Like, okay, maybe let's say she is, but also like she has all this power and all this money and she might have a legal case, but also it's like, yeah, but this person who just like recorded a YouTube video in Canada, like, okay, well, maybe they this isn't entirely fair, but like you're doing okay. I feel a little bit like that. Um, but so there are a lot of tariffs in place against the US. Other countries have put a lot of tariffs in place against the US because the US is such a a force. Like our brands are so powerful. They have so much money. Um we just have so much money. We're like the Taylor Swift of of economies and you know you've got some starting out artist and it's you know it's it's not quite a fair playing field um is what I would say to that.

[00:33:28]But but he's right. I mean, other countries are putting tariffs in place on American products. It's true. Um, I I just have to bring it up just because I was like to add, you know, some levity to my classes. So, tell us why the penguins deserve a tariff. This is my favorite story about the tariffs was this. So, there's this island. If you haven't heard this, I I was it was like, thank goodness for this story because otherwise I was so horrified. Apparently, one of the islands that Trump put a tariff on is an island off of Australia that does not have any people living on it. It just has penguins living on it. And obviously the but I think I can't remember why like somehow in the formula that the Trump administration cooked up, the tariff formula, they had tariffs put on them. I think it might have been because like they weren't importing anything from the US. So it was like why are you importing things from the US? Um and of course the reason is that it is penguins. Anyway, this was like one of the funnier things that like you could act I don't know that you're like taxing penguins for things they might make. I guess unless they agree to import I don't know what penguins would import from the US. Maybe fish. I don't know what penguins need. But yeah, this is like one of these things where like we've put a tax on products from a place that has no people living on it. It's just kind of like a funny absurd moment in all of this. Um but yeah. Yeah. I mean I I I'm not sure exactly what the logic is. I should have looked into that before we chatted, but um it is a funny like absurd weird thing.

[00:35:19]Um Lara, you had a question.

[00:35:23]How do you balance economist? How do you balance your life? You know how you say, well, we have to spend more money.

[00:35:33]That's a good thing. Versus not spending money. So, you as an economist, how do you balance that within your lifestyle or within how you deal with things on a daily basis?

[00:35:46]That's a good question. I mean, it's very funny. I think the best example of this is it's something called the paradox of thrift, which is that if I save money, it's good for me, but it's bad for the economy. Because if I'm not buying stuff from companies, companies aren't making more money. They can't grow and hire more people. So, what's good for me and what's good for the economy are not the same thing. But it's a little bit like if you're working for a company, and I think about this all, this is how I think about it. If you're working for a company, it's in the company's interest to pay you as little as possible and to have you work as many hours as possible.

[00:36:26]That's just what would be best for the company. For me, it's in my interest to make as much money as possible and to work as little as possible. So somewhere in the middle, me and the company that is hiring me, we sort of strike a deal where I'm like, I would love to be making like $80,000 but and working not at all. And the company's like, we would love to pay you nothing and have you work 80 hours a week. So then we compromise and it's like, okay, we will pay you $50,000 a year and you will work 40 hours a week.

[00:37:00]And I'm like, okay, I can live with that. So, I think it's just about finding a balance between what's good for you and what's good for the economy and recognizing that those two things, it's not that one is evil and one is good.

[00:37:14]It's just that like like in any negotiation with any other person or entity or whatever, what's the best thing for you and what's the best thing for them is not going to be the same thing. But there can be a middle ground.

[00:37:30]I mean, honestly, tariffs is a really good example of this. Like, what's best for the US is if French wine costs a million dollars in the store because then everyone's going to buy California wine. But then, and what's best for France is if California wine costs a million dollars. So, everybody in France buys French wine. But the French want to sell wine to the US and California wants to sell wine to France. So they find a middle ground. They're like, "Okay, okay." Like, "We're going to charge like a little bit more for French wine, but it'll still be there." And the French are like, "Okay, well, we're going to charge a little bit more for California wine, but it's still going to be in the store." So, like, no one's over the moon. No one got everything they wanted.

[00:38:17]But it was kind of like a compromise.

[00:38:19]And I think this is actually a really powerful point. Like I think what happened was Trump was like, "We're doing what's best for us. End of story."

[00:38:30]And at least that's the message. We don't know how it's going to play out, but And I think that's kind of like incredibly disruptive because it's basically like a company coming that you're working for coming to you and being like, "We're going to pay you $10 a day or you're fired." And you're like, "Whoa." you it's like you know so that's appar like kind of uh very appropriately since Trump is known for you're fired uh kind of what he did to all these countries that we trade with including our most important trading partners and you know yeah so so that's kind of how I always think about it I always just think about it it's like we're always in negotiation there's always a balance there's always a balance Kalia has a question again go ahead Kalia Hi again. Um, so I have a few questions, but I know you have to go. So I'll make it I'll do my last question. So I'm currently reading uh your book Madavelli for women and it has affirmed a lot of my personal experiences in workspaces.

[00:39:36]Um, while it was a bit triggering to relive those moments, it's also like really empowering to see them named and know I'm not alone in operating through those challenges. With that in mind, I'd love to ask if you'd be open to mentoring me as I navigate my own journey in business, law, finance, and real estate. I feel like your insights really resonate with me, and I'd be honored to learn from you. Yeah, of course. I mean, anyone on like in this class and on this call, like I'm very happy to be a resource. Like I hope you consider me a resource. Um, and I'm really glad the book spoke with you, Clea. And right now is I mean the sort of like weird attack on DEI and being blamed for everything.

[00:40:28]And you know this idea that the problem with the economy is that we have stopped it's not merit-based anymore. It's like just about inclusion and like making sure everybody is treated equally. I mean the numbers don't show that quite simply. Um there is a pay gap that is pretty you know there is a pay gap for like a gender race pay gap. There are all kind like if you just look at the data just focus on the data the workplace is not fair at all. There's all kinds of discrimination against uh women against like LGBTQ against like people of color. Like it's just our economy is not fair. You don't get paid the same. You don't get the same kind of job opportunities. You get the same kind of promotions. you don't get looked at the same way. It doesn't mean that there aren't opportunities and that you can't navigate that. I mean, we all have to navigate it, right? I mean, there's no workplace, even if you are a a white cisgender man, like even if you're all the things, I don't think the workplace is easy. I don't think navigating a career is easy for anyone um or fair.

[00:41:39]You know, I think everyone experiences injustice in the workplace and all of that, but it's just very systemic in certain cases. And you can see it. It shows up in the data. Uh we're seeing it in the data now. It just isn't. I mean, 95% of CEOs are Oh, CEOs are 80% male and 90% white. And the number is actually like the wealthier the company, the whiter and more male the CEOs get. I mean, this is it's a very I mean, so you can't really blame DEI for um for this state of the economy, but I think it's I you know, we're not in a moment of data.

[00:42:19]We're in a moment of emotion.

[00:42:21]And the workplace is also like not always a place of data and logic. It's often a place of emotion. We're humans.

[00:42:32]We're emotional beings. And so I think that's a really important thing to remember about business and economics.

[00:42:40]And I think one of the things that I have loved about covering business and economics is that I realized that like people cover it like it's so, you know, it's numbers, it's jargon, it's charts, it's, you know, markets plunging and surging and it's not. It's our lives.

[00:42:59]Like we it's how we spend a lot of our time. It's how we earn our living. It's how we support our families. This is emotional stuff. And like in a moment like now in the economy, like yes, it's tariffs and it's taxes, but it's like how much we're going to be paying for groceries, like what our retirement's going to look like, how much we get paid, if we're able to get a job, if we're going to get laid off. Like it's very personal. This stuff is very personal, very fast. And so finding a way to navigate it, finding any tools that you can to navigate, especially a moment like this when there's so much fear and all that is is really important. And I think Kalia like speaking up and like asking for what you want in like such a like a charming way is really like that's a really powerful thing to do. Just like speak up for yourself. Ask for what you want. The answer might be no. That's okay. just like, you know, sort of recognizing opportunities when they come up and taking them. And I mean, we don't have control over what Trump does with tariffs or what the stock market does, but we can navigate, we have to navigate within that. Um, and all these businesses across the country are also trying to do the same thing, whether it's like whatever Apple, some huge company, or a little company, like a little coffee shop on the corner, like they're all navigating all this stuff, too. And so are we. Um, and so I I do think like the thing that ties all of this together is like we're all just trying to navigate this and like any knowledge that you have from a class like this or you know just like data that you're able to gather it it's just it's power. It gives you power in a situation where there's a lot we don't have control over but you can have control over some stuff you know and that can be if you can focus on that which is hard. It's hard to not, you know, to not be like, how can Trump do this? Like, this is gonna mean X, Y, and Z or like how could Biden do this, you know, whatever it is. Um, there's a lot of power that we do have and and so like a class like this where you can like learn things and navigate, I don't know, I think it can be really really helpful.

[00:45:14]Um, I feel like I that's a really long answer to a shorter question. No, it was perfect. It was perfect.

[00:45:22]I'm glad and yeah, I'm happy to um and uh Terry, like please feel free to share my email with your students and um I'd be yeah, very happy to answer emails to have a conversation or whatever questions you have. I know I remember very well what it was like starting out.

[00:45:42]I was from Idaho applying to a million journalism jobs. I got so many rejections. I was living above my parents' garage. I was working for a publication called Idaho Weddings. Like I I remember just being like I don't know like I remember that feeling so well of just like I'm ready to work hard. I just don't like no one will let me do it. Like I just need uh a job. But it can be hard like to to get into a profession or to figure out where you want to be and to get yourself there.

[00:46:13]And if I can be of help in that way, I'm really happy to be of help in that way.

[00:46:18]Thank you so much, Stacey. Um, thank you again for joining us. Uh, we're really, really thankful and lucky to have you.

[00:46:26]Thank you. Thank you. It was such a pleasure. It was so What a great class you have. Um, thanks everybody for your hospitality and uh hopefully be in touch soon. Absolutely. Thanks, Stacey. Thanks for joining us. Bye.