Choosing a Martinist Order

追加: 2026-05-12

[00:00:02]Welcome to Choosing a Martinist Order with me, Chuck Dunning.

[00:00:07]After having recently revealed that I'm a Martinist, I've received several inquiries on this topic. So, I thought I'd offer some tips here. If you're already in a Martinist order, this list might help in preparing to serve those who are interested in joining.

[00:00:26]Please note that I won't be making any comparisons of various orders. To me, it should be part of a person's own process of discernment to carefully examine and decide from among the options.

[00:00:41]Plus, I'm probably a bit biased after having spent many years unaffiliated between my previous order and the one I now serve.

[00:00:52]Every point that follows was part of my own process of discernment.

[00:00:58]They'll be offered in alphabetical order rather than ranked by importance because that also needs to be determined by each individual.

[00:01:10]Accessibility.

[00:01:12]How easy is it to connect with an initiator, local group, etc. In some places there may be numerous orders that have an actual presence.

[00:01:25]There may be a functioning group which might be called a lodge, temple, chapter, heptad, circle or something similar.

[00:01:33]It might also be the case that there is an initiator to work with but no collective presence.

[00:01:40]You'll need to consider how important group meetings are to you and to the order. In many cases, some or all ceremonies of advancement in the degrees or grades must be done in person.

[00:01:54]Routine attendance may or may not be required.

[00:01:58]Frequency of meetings is also something to consider.

[00:02:04]Activity.

[00:02:06]It's worthwhile to find out how actively thriving an order is and how much support its local constituencies receive from its governing body.

[00:02:16]And while the tradition values the independence of initiators, orders may provide more or less guidance to ensure both consistency and adaptability in meeting the needs of their members.

[00:02:31]Some offer structured instructional materials, some only reading lists, and others offer nothing at all.

[00:02:42]Regional, national, and even international conventions and conferences may or may not be available at which members can meet to share their practices, experiences, insights, and questions and develop new and helpful relationships.

[00:03:00]Advancement.

[00:03:02]In many orders, advancement into further teachings, practices, and initiations happens only when someone has demonstrated that they have done significant work and obtained real results in changing themselves.

[00:03:20]Some orders give more attention to scholarly pursuits than the inner work of contemplative, devotional, and the practices.

[00:03:29]Unfortunately, there are orders with public materials that indicate they're about inner work. But when you carefully look at things, it's obvious that ordinary fraternal factors are of a higher priority.

[00:03:47]Investigation.

[00:03:49]This point touches on all the others. If you are sincerely engaging in the process of discernment about an order, then you will have questions to ask in a need to meet and interact with current members.

[00:04:05]How open and available is the order to your questions? How willing are they to let you get to know them? Are there meetings that you can attend? On the flip side of the coin, how motivated are they in getting to know you? Do they demonstrate a genuine and deep interest in your life? What led you to consider Martinism and your intentions, hopes, or expectations?

[00:04:35]Lineage.

[00:04:37]Martinism tends to value lineage very highly.

[00:04:42]In other words, every initiator is expected to be part of a recognized chain of initiators going back to someone that a given order recognizes as a legitimate past master of the tradition.

[00:04:57]Papoose or Gerard Onos and Augustine Chaboso are typically regarded as the founding past masters of modern lineages. And so almost every order attempts to document a verifiable lineage back to one or both.

[00:05:16]Some orders actively try to connect with as many different lineages as possible.

[00:05:22]However, there have been many branches in the family tree of Martinism and very different standards for determining who could continue a lineage.

[00:05:33]In some cases, Martinists have left orders to found their own without first obtaining any recognition to do so.

[00:05:43]In some lineages, that is regarded as the right of anyone who has received the third degree, while in others, that honor is more strictly regulated.

[00:05:56]At times, people have been declared initiators and authorized to perpetuate a lineage without any practice, training, education, or evaluation at all. So today, it isn't unusual for orders to not officially recognize the lineages of other orders.

[00:06:18]It can thus be nearly impossible for most people to figure out which claims are most authentic.

[00:06:25]One approach taken by some seekers is to look for fewer links back to Papoose or Chaboso andor links that involve fewer schisms or fewer changes from one order to another.

[00:06:41]Another approach is to consider the people most historically significant in a given lineage because this can reveal a lot about the values and philosophies that tend to be emphasized.

[00:06:55]Finally, given all this complexity, it's not unusual for contemporary seekers to almost totally disregard the issue of lineage and place much more emphasis on other factors.

[00:07:12]longevity.

[00:07:14]It might also be important to consider how long an order has been actively functional.

[00:07:20]Older and more wellestablished orders may be more organizationally sound and have solid track records at providing resources, meaningful experiences, and skilled mentors.

[00:07:34]On the other hand, newer orders may have the benefits of innovative practices and fresher enthusiasm.

[00:07:43]Even so, many new orders have come and gone relatively quickly or worse, faded into limbo, leaving their members with no social connection to the tradition money. What are the fees, dues, expenses for regalia or for special activities?

[00:08:08]Some orders consider it part of the Martinist tradition to have no dues or fees or to keep them as low as possible.

[00:08:15]In some cases, dues and fees cover the cost of regalia which is provided by the order. In others, members must purchase or make those things for themselves.

[00:08:30]practice.

[00:08:32]There are significant variances on this point. Some orders are more mystical in nature, meaning they are more contemplative and devotional in their practices, more focused on encouraging their members toward direct and intimate communion with the divine. Others are more magical, meaning that the performance of group and individual theological rituals are emphasized, more directed at attaining familiarity and skill with subtle forces and spiritual beings.

[00:09:05]Still others are more philosophical and scholarly while yet others are more interested in fraternal activities.

[00:09:14]In my experience, every order seems to offer some combination of all these ways of practicing martinism with one or two tending to be more prevalent.

[00:09:26]In some cases, orders are affiliated with other traditions like Gnostic Christianity, Rosacrruianism, or the Alukoan and even treat the three common martinis degrees as preparatory for other initiations.

[00:09:43]So, it's very important for you to first do your own study and introspection to determine what you want more or less of.

[00:09:51]In doing so, ask yourself how much you are ready, willing, and able to commit personal time and space free from distraction to make the most of your Martinist experience.

[00:10:09]restrictions.

[00:10:11]Orders can differ on who they welcome into their ranks. For example, some are open only to Christians, to males, or to those belonging to another esoteric order such as Freemasonry.

[00:10:27]Yet many Martinists greatly value the presence of people of other faiths, other genders, and with no particular affiliation to other traditions.

[00:10:40]Many orders do not allow crossmembership in other Martinist orders, and some may disallow crossmembership in other esoteric orders that they regard as philosophically or spiritually incompatible.

[00:10:57]Okay, that's all I have for now. If you have any questions or other suggestions about things to consider before joining a Martinist order, I welcome you to post them in the comments section.

[00:11:10]Please don't post any comments for or against any specific order.

[00:11:16]Thanks for listening. May peace, may joy, and may love flow in our hearts, through our hands, and from our lips.

[00:11:29]Karas