Student Argues Unborn Life Has No Rights Without Consciousness | Shane Winnings

Ajouté : 2026-05-05

[00:00:00]I was just wondering, what your position is on abortion? It's murder. It's killing a human being.

[00:00:06]So, do you believe that that human being forms from the moment of conception?

[00:00:11]Yes. Okay. I would propose something different. I think that the capacity to deploy a conscious experience is more of an apt way to give personhood to something in that womb.

[00:00:27]And the reason I believe that is because we would probably say the same thing for when somebody dies.

[00:00:32]So, we don't We used to think that when the heart beats is stops beating, that's when that person's dead. But now we know that you can you know, charge a defibrillator and restart that person's heart, right? So, I believe that we mark that person's death when they are no longer able to deploy conscious experience anymore.

[00:00:54]I think to make it easy and try and instead of trying to guess when they have consciousness, you just say as soon as a human life begins to form, we just don't kill that.

[00:01:04]Yeah, but an acorn is not the same thing as a tree. And like pieces for a building is not the same thing as the building itself, right? I think we can both agree on that. Well, no because a brick is never going to turn into a building. A a human cell is always going to develop into a human.

[00:01:22]So, So, you're you're saying flour doesn't turn into a cake. And I'm saying you already made the cake and you're putting it in the oven.

[00:01:30]Yeah, right.

[00:01:31]>> it in the oven and saying it's not a cake, it's just a bunch of ingredients.

[00:01:34]>> So then an acorn would eventually turn into a tree, right? So, if I if I had an acorn on the ground and I just stomped it, would you say that I just killed a tree right there?

[00:01:41]You just stomped out the potential for a tree to develop, yes.

[00:01:44]>> I I agree. I agree with what you're saying there. So, you know exactly what it's going to become. Yeah.

[00:01:48]>> It's a tree in process.

[00:01:50]>> But it it's not that thing yet. Saying that's going to become that thing that is not the thing itself, right? That's my >> different though because a child is not an acorn.

[00:01:58]You know, >> Yeah, but it's it's similar, right? It's like a seed.

[00:02:01]>> is not a caterpillar that's going to become a butterfly.

[00:02:04]Sure. Is that right? It's a caterpillar?

[00:02:07]I don't know. That's I'm not that smart with that stuff. I use common sense stuff.

[00:02:12]So, it's always a human.

[00:02:14]That's the thing. It doesn't change. It It might be a cell, but it's always a human. It's just going to look different, but it's always a human.

[00:02:23]An acorn is not always a tree.

[00:02:26]Right.

[00:02:26]>> Right? But a But a But a a human cell is always a human. Yeah, but I don't think the point is like when something is a human cuz I I agree that there's probably some life that's starting inside that womb at the moment of conception.

[00:02:40]>> has to be because it's growing. Exactly.

[00:02:42]Exactly. Uh has all my DNA. It has everything entangled into that. But like if I just like scratch it off, like I just killed that skin cell, but it's not I'm not killing a human there, right? I mean, a skin cell is not comparable to a living growing embryo.

[00:03:01]>> all my DNA. It has But it But it will never But it But it will never grow into another human.

[00:03:07]Sure. So, it's a part of you, but it's it's not the same thing. But it's not conscious. That's That's I guess my thing, right? Like that's like when we would define like something as being like alive and having personhood and having rights, right? Like at least as far as when we define when something's dead.

[00:03:22]>> I understand the argument. I think it's easier to just say when a life begins to form, we don't kill it.

[00:03:28]Sure. Well, I guess my question is Yeah.

[00:03:30]Why Why are you arguing for that position? Uh because I think that we should probably also take into account what's at risk, right? So, like much as you would say like I'm arguing for a position of like murdering like millions of babies, right? I would say that you're arguing in a position of you're forcing millions of women to carry a baby unnecessarily when that thing doesn't really even deserve rights.

[00:03:52]I think that they shouldn't have had sex because over 95% of abortions are done out of convenience. And so, we have an a woman and a man issue, not a rape and issue. Right, but in my position that would that would that doesn't really matter because you're not harming anything there. There's no person to speak of that's being harmed.

[00:04:12]I mean, and that's where I fundamentally disagree. And a woman who gets an abortion knows exactly what she's doing.

[00:04:17]Sure.

[00:04:17]>> And they don't talk about the aftereffects of women who get abortions and the mental toll that it takes on them knowing that they ended another life. So, >> Sure.

[00:04:25]you know, I I understand wanting to push it to consciousness, but I think that's way more up to interpretation than oh, a life was conceived, now we protect the life. And as a nation, I would rather have a stronger stance on protecting life than a more loose one.

[00:04:42]So, I would rather protect the person who is on their deathbed up until the final moment and I would protect the person who was just formed. Let's say, right? You're in a hospital, okay? And it's freaking burning, right?

[00:04:55]>> Yeah. And Like the hospital's on fire?

[00:04:57]The hospital's on fire, all right?

[00:04:58]>> Okay. Are you going to make me choose like infant death style? Yeah, pretty much. So, to the left of you, you have two alive human-born babies. And then to the right of you, you have a tray of fertilized eggs, about a hundred of them, okay?

[00:05:11]>> Yeah. And you can only save one. Which one are you picking? I The question's flawed from the beginning because you're forcing me to dictate value when I can only choose one. Yeah. The The position I'm taking is that from the beginning, we can choose both.

[00:05:27]We protect We protect all of them.

[00:05:28]>> one do you value more in this hypothetical scenario?

[00:05:31]>> equally valuable. You can't make a determination who's more valuable. In my mind, they are both humans. Now, this one tugs on my emotions more because they're developed and I can see them and I can picture their life, but that is going to be the same thing.

[00:05:43]>> Well, the reason why it probably tugs on your emotion more is because they're a fully formed human person, right? And you can see it. Yeah, because they have consciousness and they're developed.

[00:05:52]>> reason why abortion clinics don't want women to get an ultrasound before they get an abortion because they will see that it's a life in there.

[00:06:00]Sure. They want to play on your They want to keep your emotions out of it.

[00:06:04]Sure. Cuz you know that it's a life at every stage. So, to me, it's a life here, it's a life there. I don't think it's more valuable. You could say, what if it was a baby? What if it was an 80-year-old person at the end of their life?

[00:06:15]They're still both humans. They're still both valuable. That's a sucky situation.

[00:06:19]Yeah, I mean, I would agree. If I But if I were to choose like between like a newborn baby like in the same hospital thing, you know, a newborn baby versus an 80-year-old person, I would go for the newborn baby and I think probably everybody in this crowd would, too, because they have some amount of life left to live, right?

[00:06:33]>> newborn was about to get in a car accident on the way home and die? Like you don't know.

[00:06:38]Sure, but if there's a greater potential for it to live more of life, >> oh my gosh, you guys. There's probably a greater potential for it to live more of life, right?

[00:06:45]>> is we play God by saying this 80-year-old's going to die soon, this baby's going to live a long life. We don't know that.

[00:06:52]>> Most likely. It would most likely live a long life, right?

[00:06:55]>> Yeah. I'll give it like a 95% chance.

[00:06:58]>> not change their value.

[00:07:00]It does, though. No, it does, though.

[00:07:02]100% does.

[00:07:03]>> No, an old person is not less valuable than a newborn. I don't think that. I'm saying that they have more life to live, therefore there's more of a There's more conscious experience to be had there, therefore they probably get to deserve to live compared to the old person that's >> say, well, what if the 80-year-old had spent 60 years doing research and they were about to give the cure to cancer within the next 5 years? Then that's a different scenario, yeah.

[00:07:27]>> we could do this all day. I think humans are valuable at any stage of life. Thank you so much and God bless you guys.